Support the show:
https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
John and Charles on the role of Christian roleplaying i.e. "Deliverance Ministries", tracing its origins from the Latter Rain movement to modern charismatic movements. The speakers delve into the historical connections between figures like William Branham, Paul Cain, and John Wimber, exploring how teachings from the British Israelite branch of Pentecostalism influenced the practices of these movements. They highlight how deliverance ministries have adopted practices that mimic role-playing games, but with serious real-world consequences, manipulating vulnerable individuals into believing their illnesses or life challenges are caused by demons or curses. The transcript underscores the dangers of such practices, noting how they can lead to psychological harm, misplaced faith in unqualified individuals, and even loss of life.
The discussion also critiques the theology behind these movements, emphasizing the manipulative nature of their teachings. The transcript reveals the absurdity and dangers of the claims made by these Deliverance ministers, who often attribute physical and mental illnesses to spiritual causes, leading to harmful practices that can devastate individuals and families. It argues that these movements have strayed far from biblical Christianity, promoting a false sense of spiritual power among leaders while leaving followers in a state of fear and confusion.
00:00 Introduction
01:10 The Origins of Christian Roleplaying in Deliverance Ministries
02:30 Hobart Freeman's Influence and the Voice of Healing Deliverance School
05:45 The Role of Gordon Lindsay and WV Grant in Early Deliverance Ministries
08:35 Connections Between British Israelism, Christian Identity, and Deliverance Ministries
12:00 The Evolution of the Elijah Doctrine and Its Ties to White Supremacy
16:00 The Influence of Paul Cain and the Kansas City Prophets
20:50 The Connection Between IHOP, Vineyard, and the Toronto Blessing
24:00 The Manipulative Practices of Deliverance Ministries
29:50 The Harmful Impact of Deliverance Teachings on Vulnerable Individuals
35:00 The Danger of Blaming Illness on Demonic Influence
40:00 The Role of Guilt and Fear in Maintaining Control Over Followers
45:00 The Roleplaying Nature of Modern Deliverance Practices
52:00 The Destructive Legacy of Deliverance Ministries
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
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https://www.patreon.com/branham
Available on Spotify, Google, and Apple Podcasts:
https://william-branham.org/podcast
Weaponized Religion: From Christian Identity to the NAR:
Paperback: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1735160962
Kindle: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCGGZX3K
John and Charles on the role of Christian roleplaying i.e. "Deliverance Ministries", tracing its origins from the Latter Rain movement to modern charismatic movements. The speakers delve into the historical connections between figures like William Branham, Paul Cain, and John Wimber, exploring how teachings from the British Israelite branch of Pentecostalism influenced the practices of these movements. They highlight how deliverance ministries have adopted practices that mimic role-playing games, but with serious real-world consequences, manipulating vulnerable individuals into believing their illnesses or life challenges are caused by demons or curses. The transcript underscores the dangers of such practices, noting how they can lead to psychological harm, misplaced faith in unqualified individuals, and even loss of life.
The discussion also critiques the theology behind these movements, emphasizing the manipulative nature of their teachings. The transcript reveals the absurdity and dangers of the claims made by these Deliverance ministers, who often attribute physical and mental illnesses to spiritual causes, leading to harmful practices that can devastate individuals and families. It argues that these movements have strayed far from biblical Christianity, promoting a false sense of spiritual power among leaders while leaving followers in a state of fear and confusion.
00:00 Introduction
01:10 The Origins of Christian Roleplaying in Deliverance Ministries
02:30 Hobart Freeman's Influence and the Voice of Healing Deliverance School
05:45 The Role of Gordon Lindsay and WV Grant in Early Deliverance Ministries
08:35 Connections Between British Israelism, Christian Identity, and Deliverance Ministries
12:00 The Evolution of the Elijah Doctrine and Its Ties to White Supremacy
16:00 The Influence of Paul Cain and the Kansas City Prophets
20:50 The Connection Between IHOP, Vineyard, and the Toronto Blessing
24:00 The Manipulative Practices of Deliverance Ministries
29:50 The Harmful Impact of Deliverance Teachings on Vulnerable Individuals
35:00 The Danger of Blaming Illness on Demonic Influence
40:00 The Role of Guilt and Fear in Maintaining Control Over Followers
45:00 The Roleplaying Nature of Modern Deliverance Practices
52:00 The Destructive Legacy of Deliverance Ministries
______________________
– Support the channel: https://www.patreon.com/branham
– Subscribe to the channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCBSpezVG15TVG-lOYMRXuyQ
– Visit the website: https://william-branham.org
– Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WilliamBranhamOrg
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Category
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LearningTranscript
00:00:00You
00:00:31Hello and welcome to another episode of the William Branham historical research
00:00:35podcast. I'm your host John Collins the author and founder of William Branham
00:00:40historical research at william-branham.org and with me I have my co-host
00:00:45researcher minister and friend Charles Paisley the founder of christian gospel
00:00:50church.org and the author of Come Out of Her My People. And today we're
00:00:56discussing some very weird things. I feel like this is a a weird doctrines
00:01:02episode that I was doing with James but we're getting into the role of the the
00:01:08world of Christian role-playing basically in this episode and it's you
00:01:14know the history behind this is so odd. I have a Charles my new book should be
00:01:19out by the time this podcast comes out weaponized religion. Congratulations. Thank
00:01:24you. Weaponized religion from Christian identity to the NAR. I just got my copies
00:01:29and I'm excited about that but that will give the background to some of the
00:01:34things we're talking about not all but I also have my hands on a ministry
00:01:41training manual on how to become a Harry Potter not Harry Potter deliverance
00:01:48minister same thing but different the the Christian version of witchcraft
00:01:53basically and today we're getting into some unusual things and where they came
00:01:59from how they came to be and this is gonna be just so so odd to me to have
00:02:06have to sit here and talk to other adults about how playing like children
00:02:12is different than being an adult. That's something else you know what what a kind
00:02:19it started me down this path we had recently recorded an episode with Chino
00:02:23Ross and as we did that he had mentioned that Hobart Freeman had went to Christ
00:02:30for the Nations in 1966 and I had mentioned well question the nation's
00:02:35didn't exist in 1966 so I wonder what he actually went to so as I decided I got
00:02:41the transcripts from his sermons the Hobart Freeman sermons and I went back
00:02:45and I looked and just to try and get some more clues and what he mentioned in
00:02:51his sermons and this is from a sermon called Psalm 103 blessed is the name of
00:02:55the Lord number one and at the 15-minute mark Hobart Freeman says I was in Texas
00:03:01in 1966 right after receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit and I was in
00:03:05a three-week seminar two weeks at Gordon Lindsay's and one weeks at WV
00:03:11Grant's and when I read the name WV Grant suddenly everything just clicked
00:03:16in my head John exactly where he was he was at the voice of healing deliverance
00:03:25convention deliverance convention training school that's where he was also
00:03:31in Dallas this is one of the very first advertisements from the first year they
00:03:35held this convention thing and it became an annual thing where they did annual
00:03:40deliverance minister training I mean as you can see William Branham headlined
00:03:44and was a teacher in this thing at the beginning he had WV Grant you had
00:03:48Gordon Lindsay other figures in it and this school John I believe is part of
00:03:55what eventually turned into Christ for the Nations because Gordon Lindsay and
00:03:59WV Grant took this stuff over after William Branham died and so they had a
00:04:05lot of interesting things that they they taught at their school and I thought
00:04:09maybe we talked about that a little bit and then carry it forward and show where
00:04:13some of these like that manual you held up is derived from teachings that
00:04:17definitely the people you can directly connect all the people back to the same
00:04:23deliverance school that we're teaching these same ideas in the 50s and the
00:04:28first thing too I wanted to show you to the men in this school okay Gordon
00:04:32Lindsay and WV Grant and all these people you know they're so revered in
00:04:40these movements but John these people were nuts yeah they were they were
00:04:46crackpot nuts okay audience who's listening and not watching Charles is
00:04:51holding up flying saucers identified which is one of the instruction manuals
00:04:57Gordon Lindsay was a nut in the fifth the 40s and 50s Gordon Lindsay was a was
00:05:04a nut job okay now he got better as time went on but he was a crackpot nut
00:05:12quack of a preacher certainly before the 70s I mean you you can I mean he's
00:05:18preaching flying saucers he's printing flying saucer articles he's planting
00:05:21pyramid ology he's into British Israel is a pseudoscience all of this stuff
00:05:26Gordon Lindsay was wasn't was a nut you know and and and I have actually I
00:05:32should probably give you a tape I have a tape of Gordon Lindsay preaching in
00:05:35the 50s and when you listen to that tape of him preaching in the 50s John I mean
00:05:41it's like I have to say when I heard that tape of him the first time it's
00:05:45like oh my goodness this man is a is a nut job you know and again I think I do
00:05:51honestly I do think Gordon Lindsay reformed in his later years I really do
00:05:57but back at this point in time Gordon Lindsay's a nut and so this is actually
00:06:01WV Grant's book who was teaching in the school alongside him
00:06:04flaunt it's the titles this is men in flying saucers identified not a mystery
00:06:09chapter 1 I went on board the flying saucer chapter 2 I saw and talked to the
00:06:16men in the flying saucer okay this is this is who these chapter 3 the men in
00:06:21the flying saucers will return soon these are the peep this was wrote before
00:06:26they opened the deliverance school even John I mean this is these people are
00:06:31bonkers they're bonkers John and it is significant I was scrolling through one
00:06:36of my social media feeds and I'm people have invited me to all these different
00:06:40ex-cult groups one of them was an ex-cult NAR group and I was just
00:06:45scrolling through and somebody had shared one of my videos and some former
00:06:49members were saying you know the content is good the history the research is good
00:06:54but this man thinks that the NAR came from Christian identity and so I was
00:07:00reading you know I didn't I didn't get into it because I don't argue with
00:07:02people but I was reading through some of the comments and it was it was kind of
00:07:06funny because the people who are in the NAR have no idea where they came from
00:07:11and so I didn't want to you know I didn't want to fight that battle it's
00:07:15not not my place and not my group but I cover it pretty well in this book the
00:07:21weaponized religion from Christian identity to the NAR but Gordon Lindsay
00:07:25was deeply embedded in the Christian identity movement he was a speaker at
00:07:30the Anglo-Saxon Federation the Anglo-Saxon Christian world groups I mean
00:07:35these were racist groups by the time he was speaking with them racist groups and
00:07:40I've been studying you probably heard it in our podcast converging apostasy with
00:07:46Steve but we've been studying Wesley Swift whose influence in Christian
00:07:52religion is significant but minimalized kind of like William Branham they don't
00:07:57want to tell you where all this weird stuff comes from but they were
00:08:01militarizing Joel's army they were militarizing the UFO scare the communist
00:08:07scare basically any scare they could find anything that people can't explain
00:08:11the Christian identity movement was trying to tie it to the so-called false
00:08:17that were invading America Gordon Lindsay was part of this Gordon Lindsay
00:08:22published I counted one time I think it was like 15 different UFO books he was
00:08:28spreading exactly what all of the Christian identity people were saying
00:08:32and speaking in Christian identity conferences so this is a Christian
00:08:36identity movement so let me set the scene we're talking about the creation
00:08:40of deliverance ministers 1966 William Branham had just died the leader who
00:08:47spearheaded the latter rain revivals all of these men were the platform from
00:08:52which all of their money was accumulating had just been swept out
00:08:57from underneath them and they had to find a way to create a new thing because
00:09:02the old thing was dead without William Branham it was dead and so people like
00:09:08people like Hobart Freeman we're coming to learn how to how to join the new
00:09:13thing and we're setting the scene for the birth of the charismatic movement
00:09:18and it's coming from these Christian identity leaders it's it's a very
00:09:26challenging not to untangle and you know we back when we did the historical
00:09:32research podcast series if you go back to episode 21 we talked about we talked
00:09:40about the voice of healing fellowship which was an organization that William
00:09:44Branham and many of these men people were part of and this deliverance school
00:09:48was created by that fellowship and you could call this school a almost a
00:09:53miniature seminary for the voice of healing fellowship is what this
00:09:57deliverance school that was set up in Dallas was and as it relates to
00:10:02Christian identity you know we we walked through that in quite a bit of detail
00:10:06too when our episodes on British Israel ism on serpent seed on racism in the
00:10:11message and it's it's it's a it's an onion you got to peel carefully and
00:10:17you're exactly right John as far as these people all being together when you
00:10:22go back into the 1910s 1920s the British Israel branch of Pentecostal
00:10:31ism birthed both the Christian identity movement and the latter rain movement at
00:10:37at the same time and the latter rain movement and the Christian identity
00:10:40movement is being born it's being generated in the dying days of the
00:10:45British Israelite branch of Pentecostal ism and that the center of that is
00:10:50Foursquare Angelus Temple that is where you have I mean this is the God's honest
00:10:54truth there are at Angelus Temple the leading Nazis and the leading white
00:10:58supremacists in the United States okay and they are the British Israelites
00:11:02there and they're creating Christian identity and at the same time Sharon
00:11:05orphanage is being sponsored out of there they're also British Israelites
00:11:09and Sharon orphanage and they're creating the latter rain movement and
00:11:11there is absolutely an overlap in the ideology of the two movements now what I
00:11:17call the latter rain Christian identity I probably wouldn't myself I see that as
00:11:22a distinct entity but there is a there's a steep overlap in their ideology and
00:11:27they're cross-pollinating and they're working together certainly into the 60s
00:11:32certainly into the 70s certainly still into the 1980s right and all of that
00:11:37influence is still there as the third wave of Pentecostal ism is spun off and
00:11:44figures like Paul Cain and so forth are carrying that influence on down into
00:11:51into these movements and you're right they totally lost sight of the history
00:11:54they don't know the backstory of their leaders they don't know what they were
00:11:57involved in and yes Gordon Lindsay was deeply involved in this stuff for the
00:12:04majority of his life we could say maybe he wasn't so much the last 20 years but
00:12:08the overwhelming majority of his life he was deeply involved in all of this stuff
00:12:11and so I have just a few more pieces of literature I want to show from that
00:12:16deliverance training school John so when William Branham died in 1966 Gordon
00:12:25Lindsay published these two books you know one of which is titled the man who
00:12:30did not die Elijah okay he published this six months after William Branham
00:12:35died the the Elijah stuff is from the British Israelite branch of early
00:12:42Pentecostal ism and they morphed it after William Branham died they morphed
00:12:47it into this generation of Elijah stuff that these people believe in today it is
00:12:52the same ideology it is just a forward evolution of the same stuff and you'll
00:12:57find the origins of this in books and literature like this which they began to
00:13:01create after right after William Branham died and if you're in any of these
00:13:06groups I mean I'm sure you some of them are absolutely Elijah obsessed the
00:13:10Elijah generation the Elijah stuff at the end it's the same ideology slightly
00:13:16evolved and you have I have actually some images here on the back of these
00:13:23books where they advertise this the different courses that were being
00:13:27offered at the school and I'll just read some to you course one master key
00:13:33to success and prosperity divine healing Satan fallen angels demons gifts the
00:13:39spirit this course includes such subjects as divine healing prayer
00:13:44prophecy but they have these these courses you can enroll in and here is
00:13:48literature this is by Gordon Lindsay that was being used in these early days
00:13:54of this stuff this one is titled the real reason why Christians get sick and
00:13:58how they get well this is a book all about deliverance the ministry of angels
00:14:01this is all about interacting with the spirit world and doing deliverance and
00:14:05so this is the stuff that's being taught at those schools and one more thing I'll
00:14:11throw in here John how do you guys think I have this stuff because the message
00:14:16preachers were there okay I got when when there was an old-time message
00:14:20preacher who passed away in the early 2000s and his widow left me lots of his
00:14:27literature the message preachers were also at these things at the same time
00:14:32that Paul Cain was at these as well WV Grant was at these Hobart Freeman was at
00:14:37these right so all of our people we can we can kind of bring back to this this
00:14:41deliverance training school and we know that they had access to all this
00:14:46literature and I'll be honest some of this stuff is really some of it is
00:14:50dangerous some of its normal Christianity but some of this is
00:14:52dangerous cultic brainwashing material that harms people it is very dangerous
00:14:58and keep in mind before he died William Branham was part of this thing they were
00:15:03trying to recreate another movement like latter rain because they've made so much
00:15:07money off of it and all you know you're right it wasn't that latter rain was a
00:15:13Christian identity movement but it was that many of the leaders who were in it
00:15:17were deeply tied to Christian identity William Branham is not if you go look up
00:15:22Christian identity leaders you won't find his name mentioned even though he
00:15:26is preaching the same Christian identity doctrines of Wesley Swift he was
00:15:32actually I would say in some ways he was more popular than Wesley Swift and
00:15:36teaching his serpent seed Christian identity doctrine and these guys were
00:15:40creating a new movement Branham was part of it Branham died and what happened
00:15:46after he died is interesting because you find Gordon Lindsay preaching the
00:15:51Elijah's coming you've got Wesley Swift who is without question the most
00:15:55notorious Christian identity white supremacy leader saying Elijah's coming
00:16:00and they were recreating the manifested sons of God that you know early days of
00:16:07the latter rain they had developed this notion that the coming war was imminent
00:16:13and that the Christian people needed to form as an army to battle against the
00:16:17forces that were coming and Christian identity leaders were saying we see the
00:16:21enemy forces are approaching because of the UFOs and that's why you have Gordon
00:16:26Lindsay preaching the Elijah preaching the UFOs and it all ties back Wesley
00:16:31Swift was and you know some of the latter rain guys they were preaching
00:16:36that the things like the statements from the Old Testament the sons of God saw
00:16:41the daughters of men they were talking about the Nephilim and they were tying
00:16:45that to Christian identity they were tying the you know the trail of the
00:16:52trail of the so-called serpent seed through ham through Noah I was talking
00:16:57recently with the guy who had escaped the NAR and NAR circles that you would
00:17:02not even believe it they're teaching all of those elements but they've taken the
00:17:06name white the name white supremacy and the colors out of the out of what they're
00:17:11saying you're exactly right John and the way the way this ideology works so a
00:17:16word that you'll find more commonly used John Robert Stevens group did this for
00:17:21example they would call instead of you saying everyone was serpent seed they
00:17:25said they're Nephilim's they're Nephilim's yes well the Nephilim's is
00:17:28the Greek word for the serpent seed in the in Genesis okay it's the same thing
00:17:32right and I know where we come from we believe the Nephilim's were the serpent
00:17:36seed but we said serpent seed not Nephilim's right it's the same thing
00:17:40guys and if you go to Christian identity it's the same thing it's just a
00:17:44slightly different word for the same thing the Nephilim are the serpent seed
00:17:48okay and who are the Neph you know and so it's the same stuff and if you go
00:17:53into Christian identity you're gonna find the same thing you're gonna find
00:17:57the Elijah themes you're gonna find the all of the same themes right that you
00:18:02have that are in latter rain and has evolved into the movements today but
00:18:06they have taken it and they have continued to deeply emphasize the racial
00:18:10pieces of it whereas the message and the charismatic movements they have
00:18:16de-emphasized the racial pieces but they've kept a lot of that same ideology
00:18:22and the racial connotations are still there baked into it it's just I know
00:18:27where we come from John the leaders absolutely knew this whole thing is they
00:18:31knew it was racial absolutely it's the secret of the leaders and I can't help
00:18:36but think that Paul Cain had to know all that I mean he was he was in on it right
00:18:40and if Paul Cain was in on it well is Mike Bickle in on it I mean you know
00:18:45what I mean so as you carry this on are the leaders in on it you don't you don't
00:18:50know but I know where we come absolutely the leaders were in on it there is no
00:18:53way there is absolutely no chance zero chance that Paul Cain was not 100% aware
00:18:59of all the racial elements and and is it and it's one of the great hidden
00:19:04revelations you think he did not teach that to the other leaders I mean you're
00:19:08a fool I mean you're just a fool to think that it's not passed on and you
00:19:11and it's like Scientology you work your way up to the higher level you're gonna
00:19:16get to know the advanced mysteries okay that is how these religions work and I
00:19:22recently published a video on John Wimber surprising to me because I didn't
00:19:27realize that people who had escaped this thing would give him such esteem
00:19:30because he's he's the one who helped promote the Kansas City prop the Kansas
00:19:34City prophets would not exist in the way in which they existed and would not have
00:19:39developed into IHOP in the explosive manner in which they did without John
00:19:44Wimber like you said there were men who were not Christian identity people in
00:19:48this movement but they're working with the key figures and helping lift them up
00:19:52and the shepherding movement you've got Eldon Purvis one of the most notorious
00:19:57Christian identity leaders not militarized but religiously militarized
00:20:02and he's helping the shepherding movement get started so you've got all
00:20:07of these key figures of Christian identity who are swaying the direction
00:20:12I'll say it like that maybe maybe the whole movement wasn't Christian identity
00:20:16but Christian identity was swaying the direction in which this thing was headed
00:20:20so and now you enter into the deliverance ministry part of this
00:20:26whenever they're training ministers how to role-play of basically Ghostbusters
00:20:33Charles they're wanting to take the the elements that I like of the movie
00:20:39Ghostbusters and instead of having the little I don't know what I can't
00:20:43remember what they call that device that they suck the ghosts out but instead they
00:20:48think that the human beings and these deliverance ministers are that device so
00:20:54you're correct John and so that that's starting to get us into the the really I
00:20:59think the beef of what we wanted to talk about the meat of it so we kind of talk
00:21:02through the you know these kind of literatures that that is coming out of
00:21:06the deliverance training school you know that started in the 50s we talked about
00:21:12some of the men who were there well one of the men who was at that school quite
00:21:15regularly was Paul King none other than Paul Kane okay and these ideas were
00:21:21already being taught before this deliverance training school it is it was
00:21:24really what the healing revivals was all about another term that is commonly used
00:21:29for the healing revivals is the deliverance movement the healing
00:21:32revivals was was really the birth of the modern deliverance movement and so that's
00:21:38where this stuff really became popularized we've talked in the
00:21:42historical research podcast about where those ideas originated it in the past
00:21:45but as they set that school up as they start training people Paul Kane is a
00:21:51regular at that school so Paul Kane disappears for a number of years after
00:21:56William Branham dies maybe one day we can talk about what we think happened
00:22:00there when he disappeared but he disappeared and about 15 years after
00:22:04William Branham dies he reappears and he reappears with Bob Jones and the Kansas
00:22:10City Prophets and I can tell you Bob Jones or I'm sorry Paul Kane was
00:22:16absolutely still connected to the message back then because he was still
00:22:20coming around message churches he was still preaching at message churches
00:22:23there was a full-on cross-pollination happening there with with the teachings
00:22:28we know that's not the only connection between the message and what was
00:22:31happening with IHOP and so forth and in that time he comes into contact also
00:22:37through the Kansas City Fellowship with the vineyard movement with John Wimber
00:22:42and maybe sometime John we need to do a full episode on John Wimber because you
00:22:47I've heard some people say some different things you know about that as
00:22:50well and I'm not gonna go into all my opinions on John Wimber here but I kind
00:22:56of put him in the same category as the Gordon Lindsay's of the world the Derek
00:23:00princes of the world I mean obviously he had absolutely no
00:23:05discernment he started working with terrible people who were rapists and
00:23:09child molesters John Wimber was working with rapists child molesters okay
00:23:14absolutely he brought them in to the senior levels of leadership he let them
00:23:19teach at his conferences right and yeah then later years he wakes up and says
00:23:23yeah they're all bad guys we got to get away from them great John Wimber you
00:23:28know that's that was the right choice but you shouldn't have started working
00:23:31with him to begin with right and you probably should have called the police
00:23:35and turned them all in right but you didn't right and so I mean that that's
00:23:39kind of to the side we can talk about that another time John I don't like
00:23:42talking about stuff in the more recent past but anyways that all aside they for
00:23:49the years that Paul Cain and the Kansas City prophets were in association with
00:23:54the vineyard movement they brought their teachings in and they influenced the
00:23:58Toronto blessing absolutely they did John Paul Cain was teaching at their
00:24:03main conferences in those years and those teachings absolutely played a role
00:24:08in what happened with the Toronto blessing and that manual that you're
00:24:11holding in your hand from Randy Clark he was key figure at the Toronto blessing
00:24:16okay and what is in that book is the exact same stuff that's in these books
00:24:21from this deliverance education school all the way back in the 50s it is the
00:24:26same thing guys it's the same thing repackaged and where do you think they
00:24:32got it from Paul Cain who was at the schools who got it from the same guys
00:24:35who got it from William Branham who got it from Bosworth who got it from
00:24:39Alexander Dowie I mean this is end-to-end connected this is not new
00:24:44it's not divine revelation from God it's not some new great way to do things it
00:24:48is the same repackaged stuff from the British Israelite branch of early
00:24:53Pentecostal ism this is the exact same stuff it is and when you read it you
00:24:59know if you know what it is and you understand the significance of this it
00:25:04gets so funny because they're they've created a manual that makes it feel like
00:25:09you're becoming they're basically teaching you how to become a role player
00:25:13and all of these minutes the irony is all these ministers condemned the
00:25:17Dungeons and Dragons games any role-playing game that you had as a
00:25:21child they condemned but they've created they've created the same thing for adult
00:25:27ministers and when you get into some of the things like it's telling you how to
00:25:31brush your teeth and how to present yourself by wearing nice clothes and I
00:25:37mean get into the role step into the role guys and and that's the stuff
00:25:43they're teaching I know and I bring this up only because of this in talking to
00:25:48some of these people who are strong defenders of John Wimber they consider
00:25:53all of this that he did and all that he created as this big holy thing and they
00:25:58have no idea that some of the things that was coming out of this was
00:26:03literally just role-playing for adults and whenever they begin you know
00:26:09whenever this movement began and all of these figures were seen as creating a
00:26:15new move of God a new thing a new you know John Wimbers credited with many
00:26:20many things that the charismatic movement hold near and dear which is
00:26:25probably why I get all the backlash I'm real careful talking about John Wimber
00:26:29because again I I think I I believe there was a reform that happened at a
00:26:37certain point I do believe that he reformed at a certain point and he
00:26:41reformed to a certain degree and I believe the vineyard movement my
00:26:45understanding of the vineyard movement is they have reformed some of this stuff
00:26:49out and so I'm I I just want to make sure I'm not passing any sort of
00:26:54judgment on the vineyard movement or John Wimber as it as these things exist
00:26:58in the later parts of their lives and as it is now but you come back to the what
00:27:02was going on in the 80s early 90s this is bad news this is this is bad news he
00:27:10was in bed with really bad people they were get bringing in some really bad
00:27:13influences and it did some really bad things and if if the ones that didn't
00:27:19reform are on the same track that the message is you know they're just a few
00:27:23years behind right you look at where I hop went well I hop had about it what a
00:27:2815-year head start over the vineyard churches that imported this stuff give
00:27:32it a few more years and see what happens you know see what comes out of this
00:27:36stuff because everywhere it goes this thing seems to produce the same ultimate
00:27:40effects it just takes so long for it to metastasize and to bring forth and then
00:27:45you find out what's been under the covers all of this time and it is this
00:27:49way all through this ideology I mean all the way back to the early days of it and
00:27:53so let's talk just a little bit though about this about the the this this
00:27:58training manual John and again you can just see the same stuff in here and this
00:28:04stuff I'll be honest is really deceptive it is really bad stuff one of the first
00:28:11things if you look on just the first page there be one it's talking about
00:28:17what their objective is and they're saying their objective is to facilitate
00:28:22the moving of the Holy Spirit under the direction of the pastor or the appointed
00:28:28leadership of the team and so just very clear they are basically coming and
00:28:34intervening in this person's life that they're dealing with they are taking
00:28:38upon themselves the role of the Holy Spirit they are inserting themselves
00:28:42into an unhealthy role that really only believes that really only belongs to God
00:28:47and they're doing that from the outset of this and it's really right there
00:28:52embedded in these documents I'm here to facilitate your connection to God I'm
00:28:57here to become your mediator I'm here to help you have an ecstatic experience and
00:29:03guide you through it and you know it's it's very if they're putting themselves
00:29:08in a position that's going to give them a whole lot of power over the people
00:29:13that they're dealing with have you ever wondered how the Pentecostal movement
00:29:17started or how the progression of modern Pentecostal ism transition through the
00:29:22latter rain charismatic and other fringe movements into the New Apostolic
00:29:27Reformation you can learn this and more on William Branham historical research's
00:29:32website William dash Branham org on the books page of the website you can find
00:29:38the compiled research of John Collins Charles Paisley Stephen Montgomery John
00:29:43MacKinnon and others with links to the paper audio and digital versions of each
00:29:48book you can also find resources and documentation on various people and
00:29:53topics related to those movements if you want to contribute to the cause you can
00:29:58support the podcast by clicking the contribute button at the top and as
00:30:03always be sure to like and subscribe to the audio or video version that you're
00:30:07listening to or watching on behalf of William Branham historical research we
00:30:12want to thank you for your support it's funny to me because of their adults
00:30:16doing this that's really so funny but it's a very serious thing what they're
00:30:20doing whenever you're a kid and you're playing these role-playing games usually
00:30:26it's a some sort of a medieval kind of game and you've got a fake sword and
00:30:31you're fighting fake dragons and it's all fake and children know that this is
00:30:36all fake while the adults in these movements are saying you guys are
00:30:40inviting evil spirits and all of this stuff well these deliverance ministers
00:30:44are actually role-playing as the Holy Spirit and if you really think about the
00:30:48consequences of what that is and how that looks it's a very very serious
00:30:53thing these men are role-playing as the Holy Spirit to the people and think
00:30:58back to we've talked about it in our podcast where all of this went think
00:31:02back to the statements where they said this movement is like the manifested
00:31:09sons of God you are the manifestation of the Son of God you become the sons of
00:31:13God you be therefore like gods that kind of doctrine all flows throughout this
00:31:19whole thing they have literally taken William Branham's very extremist version
00:31:24of the manifested sons of God doctrine the Joel's army doctrine and they have
00:31:29elevated themselves into a position where they are the Holy Spirit on the
00:31:33earth and so therefore by result every single scripture passage from the New
00:31:39Testament that is talking about the Holy Spirit it is applicable to these men and
00:31:44they use it if you listen to any of these sermons whenever they reference
00:31:49the Holy Spirit they always go back and they point to themselves they may not
00:31:54directly say I am the Holy Spirit but like William Branham did it's by example
00:32:00they'll say the attributes of the Holy Spirit this this and this and then they
00:32:04go off into this part of the sermon where they say and my ministry is doing
00:32:07this this and this just like the Holy Spirit so these men are role-playing as
00:32:13the Holy Spirit here's a good example of of how they feel their way through these
00:32:20words of knowledge so on page c5 it says here test your impressions so leading up
00:32:27to this you're supposed to have some vague impression from the Holy Spirit
00:32:31about this person you're performing deliverance on and and it says when in
00:32:36doubt when in doubt of your impression from the Holy Spirit stop and ask if you
00:32:41feel a particular impression in your spirit but want to make sure that it's
00:32:45from the Lord ask the person if your impression makes sense or means anything
00:32:50to him or her if the person says yes then the faith of both of you increases
00:32:55if the person says no you have proven yourself prudent so basically they're
00:33:02teaching this person practicing deliverance to play guessing game all
00:33:05right I'm gonna guess I'm gonna guess things about you and when we finally
00:33:09get something right then that guess must be what the Holy Spirit has impressed on
00:33:13us right and as as you get to do these things and you watch the people do it
00:33:18they do get better at guessing right they get better at guessing and they
00:33:21finally hit on something where they they can begin to to manipulate that person
00:33:28about about what what's happening in that situation and this document John I
00:33:33gotta say as I read through this I mean the way that this goes on to manipulate
00:33:38the people when they're in the prayer line right here's some things that goes
00:33:47on with what they should do it says help the person deal with rationalizing
00:33:50tendencies fears or a loss of self-control right so if they're having
00:33:55fear tell them just experience it don't try to analyze it okay it's something
00:34:02like worshiping God there really isn't a rational explanation so what are we
00:34:05doing here I'm impersonating the Holy Spirit I'm guessing at things about you
00:34:10and I am telling you don't actually try to rationalize any of this do not apply
00:34:16any critical thought to what is happening here but just experience it
00:34:21just feel it right what is this John we're brainwashing somebody we're this
00:34:26is this is brainwashing somebody okay some people fear failing if the person
00:34:31has back problems as pregnant or as elderly as heavy or frail and fears
00:34:35falling right the people get knocked out you may want to ask if he or she would
00:34:40like to sit down to receive prayer it goes on to say give tell them to give
00:34:45the Holy Spirit permission to do what he wants to do you remember back in our
00:34:49historical research podcast Charles we were talking about the pamphlets that
00:34:55they passed out for the early version of what was deliverance which was the
00:34:59divine healing and they had disclaimers everywhere if you go home and you doubt
00:35:05then this thing's gonna fall back on you and what they were doing they were
00:35:09heading off legal issues and legal battles at the pass because if these
00:35:14people were truly sick and they go home and some you know they get worse because
00:35:18of these ministers they get sued so there were some legal disclaimers well
00:35:23if you picture what this is this is a quote-unquote deliverance ministry
00:35:28claiming that they can cast out demons and one of the things that most people
00:35:33consider in this movement consider to be demonic is any sort of mental health
00:35:39issue they they really they don't they they take the people who have some sort
00:35:46of mental health issue and they demonize them and make them make them feel that
00:35:50there's a demon in them but there's a problem with this Charles because if the
00:35:54person is under psychiatric care and these ministers claim to have healed
00:35:59them and they stop taking their meds these people could go do some very some
00:36:04of them could do some bad things and so they've got a in in the manual it on
00:36:11page G11 it says you will have occasion to minister to people who are
00:36:15consulting with the counselor psychiatrist and this probably is not a
00:36:19problem if your ministry is for physical ailment however it's for emotional
00:36:23problems indicated you should ask the prairie to get approval of his doctor
00:36:28or counselor and I know you know having talked or you can go back and you can
00:36:34look at my podcast episodes with Jesse there's not a single professional who's
00:36:40going to say yes I agree you should go to a deliverance minister for your
00:36:44mental health issues I also have a copy of the the same kind of thing which was
00:36:51taught at IHOP and remember Branham taught Paul Cain Paul Cain taught IHOP
00:36:56Paul Cain worked with Wimber all of this stuff well in there they have similar
00:37:01disclosures on page three of their deliverance manual it says do not try to
00:37:07cast out emotional pain and don't rush them into pain let them grieve and
00:37:13there's clauses in here like in the interview process where it's saying ask
00:37:17if they need someone to agree with them for their freedom in other words ask
00:37:22your doctor if it's okay if you do this and all of all this is for a person who
00:37:28is seeing who is under psychiatric care who is taking their meds they want to
00:37:34avoid a situation where they stop taking their meds because these guys are fully
00:37:38aware that this thing is all a it's all a game they know that they're not going
00:37:44to heal somebody who desperately needs medication let me jump ahead in this
00:37:48book to the divine healing section John so there is in this guy in this guide a
00:37:56starts on page F2 I think and goes for about 15 pages and there's a whole
00:38:02explanation in this book on divine healing and what you'll find in this
00:38:07this this biblical case for divine healing is hey the exact same thing that
00:38:12happened to be taught in the deliverance training school and it's
00:38:16basically a guide to positive confession and a guide to dual atonement that is
00:38:21that is what it is and when you get beyond that in the book then begins to
00:38:26give you a five-step model for healing right and it actually walks you through
00:38:31how you perform the faith healing exercises and what I want to read
00:38:36starting on g3 I'm just gonna read some of this to you and you can just see how
00:38:40this ultimately can be manipulative and harmful to the person but it says
00:38:45briefly interview the person requesting prayer be attentive and gentle a loving
00:38:50attitude on your part will do much to reassure the person that he's in good
00:38:53hands ask him or her what physical condition the need is but don't go into
00:38:58lengthy detail for example what's your name what would you like pray for what
00:39:02is your condition have you seen a doctor do you remember when this start what
00:39:08what's happening in your life when this condition started did anything traumatic
00:39:12happen to you about the time this condition started so they're already
00:39:15starting to probe to try and figure out what you did to make yourself sick right
00:39:20that is how this thing is opening up right did you have an unbelief did you
00:39:24have a sin right they're trying to figure out why you made yourself sick
00:39:29that is how this thing starts out it's not obvious that's what they're doing
00:39:32but that is exactly where it's going so they go on and they they have the
00:39:38person pray for the person and if the cause is spiritual they're you know
00:39:43rebuking the devil and casting the devil out as it comes down they give specific
00:39:48prayers for all the different kinds of illnesses that a person might experience
00:39:54there's a there is a prayer for if you have if you have arthritis well
00:40:00arthritis is a demon that needs cast so you cast out the demon of arthritis let
00:40:04me read you the diagnostics okay after you've it says if you're making no
00:40:09progress okay consider interviewing the person further here are questions you're
00:40:13gonna ask the person if they're not getting better do you or any of your
00:40:17other family members have this condition do you have a strong fear of anything is
00:40:23anyone in your family a member of the Freemasons or the Eastern Star has
00:40:28anyone in your family ever been cursed that you know of have you had any
00:40:33accidents have you ever participated in any kind of an occult game they're
00:40:37trying to find excuses that they can start to pin the lack of healing on
00:40:43right and you just look what this does right there they're targeting your
00:40:46family members you're not being healed because your great-grandfather is a
00:40:50Freemason I mean come on this is weird stuff John I mean this is really weird
00:40:56there's so many things in here that are just it's just literally common sense
00:41:00don't do this thing or you might get sued don't do this thing or the person
00:41:05might catch on that we're role-playing but there's one clause in here that I'm
00:41:09glad they put in page b6 it says ministering at the altar is a demanding
00:41:15and often physically taxing start fresh use deodorant beforehand and make sure
00:41:20you have plenty of breath mints available I'm certain that that was
00:41:24added for one of the ministers that I know here locally but I can't prove it
00:41:28so it's some of this is just you know you read through it and you scratch your
00:41:34head and you think do I do I really need a manual for this stuff but other things
00:41:38in here like the the healing like you're talking about they're edging towards the
00:41:45ability to create a stage persona of having the power to heal but with the
00:41:52caveat of if you don't get healed your family might be Masonic or you might
00:41:57have a some sort of a demon in your past that prevents me from healing you when
00:42:04you start on page j2 and j3 this is where you get the specific prayers you
00:42:10might even say incantations for the different illnesses right and how to
00:42:14deal with different ones so if they're deafness you you cast out the demon of
00:42:19decimus you command the healing of the cause and cast out the deaf and dumb
00:42:24spirit and it gives you the words to say if it is cataracts there are
00:42:29instructions on what to say to heal a cataract you cast out the spirit of
00:42:33blindness and cataracts all on down here it's all about basically anything is
00:42:39cast now to demon the demon of cataracts the demon of arthritis the demon of
00:42:47blind I mean this is basically convincing these people they're
00:42:51possessed of demons and I mean if someone had cataracts John and they came
00:42:56up for prayer wouldn't the more appropriate thing be to tell them to go
00:43:00to the optometrist and have them remove the cataracts right because you know
00:43:06it's like a cleft lip I mean wouldn't the appropriate thing be to go tell them
00:43:09well let's go let let me let the church sponsor your cataract surgery now there's
00:43:14a gift of healing right let the church sponsor these things right but this is
00:43:18not what they're doing they're convincing them that all of these things
00:43:21is demonic activity in their lives and then it's all designed to try and
00:43:27convince them that they brought it on themselves and in half the cases if you
00:43:31look on page j4 this is a really really crazy one on j4 what if they have a
00:43:37short leg or a short arm these are literally the instructions John to
00:43:43perform the leg length the leg lengthening trick that you see these
00:43:48faith healers doing right and I'll read it to you it says a difference in the
00:43:53length of the arms or legs can be by asking the person to stand direct with
00:43:57their feet pointing straight forward hold out the arms so this is the arms
00:44:00that's straight at the elbows let me jump down to to the feet says the
00:44:05difference in the length of leg can be determined by asking the person to sit
00:44:08in a straight back chair with his hips and feet as far back as they'll go and
00:44:11his legs out straight you can then gently lift his legs off the floor and
00:44:14check the heels of his shoes the heels of his shoes may reveal the difference
00:44:19in the length of his leg you're not looking at the heel of his foot you're
00:44:22looking at the heel of his shoe that don't work you must care you must be
00:44:27careful in lifting ace the person's feet off the floor sometimes there's a back
00:44:31problem lifting so don't lift his feet high enough to cause pain well that's
00:44:34nice an alternate way of checking the comparative length of leg is to place a
00:44:39thumb squarely on each ankle bone holding the arms and thumbs in a
00:44:43straight line and then checking whether your thumbs are even if the legs appear
00:44:47to be different length they met this may actually be the case or the apparent
00:44:52difference may just be caused by tipping of the pelvis which is what we know says
00:44:56in either case though you can pray the same way the correction can come by
00:45:02lengthening the short leg or by the movement of the pelvis into its proper
00:45:07position okay this these the instructions for the healing gimmicks
00:45:12are in here right and then they're gonna say they've healed a person just by
00:45:17adjusting their posture in the seat this is ridiculous stuff John it is and like
00:45:24you said it is how to create a stage act I mean pure plain and simple that's what
00:45:28this is if you go to the IHOP version of this document of this training for
00:45:33deliverance it's talking about the three-step policy of your stage act you
00:45:39ask you say is it okay to lay on hand so that you don't get sued for it and you
00:45:43engage and it's like command and and break the power of the enemy rebuke the
00:45:49per they're rebuking the person but you know psychologically the people have
00:45:55been manipulated to think they're rebuking the so-called spirit of cancer
00:46:00or whatever is the whatever is the ailment but here's where it gets
00:46:06interesting you remember we we talked about this and one of the episodes and I
00:46:11can't remember which of our revival history series but there was a woman who
00:46:15she said praise God you William Branham healed me I did not even know that I had
00:46:21cancer and yet he healed me of it and that's what this is looking for it when
00:46:27it says step to engage in the IHOP version it says pray with your eyes
00:46:32open so you can see what the Holy Spirit is doing and how they are responding and
00:46:37that's part of the gimmick right you look to see do they really believe this
00:46:41stuff if not you dismiss them and you let them go if they if they don't
00:46:46believe it or if they do believe with hook line and sinker you can keep
00:46:50engaging them and and you know keep on with it but step three is to interview
00:46:55and how are we doing how are they feeling how is your pain level and then
00:46:59re-engage in other words hold them up there on the stage until they're nervous
00:47:04and you know psychologically this puts the people into a state where number one
00:47:10they just want to get off the stage but number two they're being they're being
00:47:15manipulated their heads are being manipulated as they're doing this and
00:47:18everyone else in the room has to pray with their eyes closed well the minister
00:47:23who's on stage gets to look at all of the eyes and see who is who's receptive
00:47:28to the quote-unquote Holy Spirit and who to call up next because these people may
00:47:34or may not be believing in this thing that you're doing this role-playing I
00:47:37want to just read a few more of these that way people can understand just how
00:47:41screwed up and evil this is okay so here's the section on arthritis I
00:47:46finally got there I'm gonna read the section on arthritis this is on page j6
00:47:50it says note anger unforgiveness and especially bitterness seem to play in a
00:47:55lot seem to play a large part in many cases of arthritis let me get this again
00:48:00anger unforgiveness and especially bitterness are the cause of many
00:48:05arthritis cases and you got to ask yourself John where in the world did
00:48:10they get this from I mean is that you know I don't know Hebrews 2162 says
00:48:17arthritis is caused but I have no idea this is not in the Bible this is nowhere
00:48:23I mean they're pulling the stuff out of the ether and I'll tell you the truth
00:48:27where it comes from it comes from this nonsense book stuff that comes all the
00:48:32way back from John Alexander Dowie all the way from the pseudoscience garbage
00:48:37that these nuts people believed in coming out of the late 1800s the early
00:48:421900s arthritis is not caused by unforgiveness arthritis is not caused by
00:48:47bitterness arthritis is not caused by anger okay now I say arthritis can make
00:48:54you angry angry probably I bet arthritis could make a person a little bit bitter
00:48:58you know what I mean but it's not the other way these things are ridiculous
00:49:05right and so it goes on and all of these things are about connecting the
00:49:09condition that a person has to there's something wrong in their life let me
00:49:13read you what it has to say here about cancer so it says after your
00:49:17preliminaries on cancer this is on page j-10 command the healing of all known
00:49:21causes of cancer cast out the spirit of cancer cast out any spirits of infirmity
00:49:27and affliction curse the cancer cells so now you are cursing the cancer cells
00:49:31root seed and cell command them to shrivel and die command the immune
00:49:36system to function strongly against cancer cells healing to any part of the
00:49:41body damaged by the cancer and the bone marrow to produce healthy blood cells so
00:49:46this is how they're treating cancer move on to diabetes the next one cancer had a
00:49:51long string of things that can cause it but let me read you the diabetes one you
00:49:55ask the person do they have feelings of rejection self-hatred or guilt if so
00:49:59seek the root of such feelings and lead them in a prayer of repentance and
00:50:03forgiveness of himself and others and renounce the spirits involved in those
00:50:07things to break their spirits and cast them out so they're connecting diabetes
00:50:11here to having feelings of rejection feelings of safe self-hatred and
00:50:15feelings of guilt guilt does not cause diabetes self-hatred does not cause
00:50:23diabetes rejection does not cause diabetes what are they doing here they
00:50:27are preying on people who are ill and who may have bad feelings related to
00:50:32their illness and they're trying to convince them that their bad feelings
00:50:36are what's causing them to be sick if this is so deceptive so wicked so
00:50:41manipulative John I mean these people I have very bad thoughts about these
00:50:46people as I'm reading this John I mean this is this is awful this is absolutely
00:50:51outrageous that they would suggest to people that these conditions are brought
00:50:56on to them by their feelings and perhaps instead of the other way around their
00:51:00feelings being produced by their conditions right and so they command out
00:51:04all of the diabetes stuff and then you go to the next page k1 and it talks
00:51:10about the hindrances for healing so now this is what they're gonna do for the
00:51:13people who they prayed for their arthritis but guess what the demon of
00:51:16arthritis didn't come out you know they prayed for their diabetes but all they
00:51:21still have a spirit of bitterness so God's not gonna heal their diabetes and
00:51:25so now this section is about discovering what is wrong with the person as to why
00:51:31they didn't get healed this is outrageous John I mean I just get so
00:51:35this this really boils my blood reading this stuff instead of telling this
00:51:40person go to the doctor instead of saying hey maybe it's not God's will to
00:51:44heal you today we are going to examine your life with a fine-toothed comb and
00:51:48find out what's wrong with you as to why God doesn't want to heal you today or
00:51:52why God's not gonna heal you today as you go through this list it's gonna say
00:51:56okay here are things that may have caused God to not heal you unforgiveness
00:52:01resentment bitterness anger a lack of needed inner healing a curse generational
00:52:09problems past involvement in the occult do you think they realize that some of
00:52:14these things they're doing came from the cult itself a cult itself lack of a
00:52:19desire for healing you don't want it bad enough free masonry what in the
00:52:25world difficulty in believing that God heals today fear unresolved guilt
00:52:32disobedience unbroken inner vows ungodly soul ties belief that God imposed the
00:52:40illness to develop the person's character so you can't believe that you
00:52:44know this came upon you in order to give you a trial right it can't be a trial
00:52:49if you believe it's a trial to make you a better person you can't be healed
00:52:52right so they're even taking away your ability to try and put what you're
00:52:58happening in some sort of a positive light they're totally breaking you down
00:53:02presence of a spirit of illness or affliction so as they go through this I
00:53:06mean the next section is all about convincing this person that they are not
00:53:11being healed of their diabetes of their cancer of their whatever because one of
00:53:16those things is wrong with them my John I I'm flummoxed I'm speechless about
00:53:26what to say about how I feel about that yeah it angers me and you get to the end
00:53:32of this they've got in section like m22 it's got post deliverance ministry your
00:53:39ministry is not complete after you have successfully ministered deliverance to a
00:53:44needy person because they know that they're going to go home and if you're
00:53:48diabetic you're still going to remain diabetic if you have high blood pressure
00:53:52still gonna have high blood pressure but it has this whole section for how to
00:53:57deal with people who continue having the so-called demon of diabetes or demon of
00:54:04high blood pressure or whatever is there whatever they're looking to be delivered
00:54:09from and it places the weight back on the shoulders of the person who has the
00:54:13illness encourage them to see whether or not they have habit habit patterns
00:54:19that need change for example you're not going to change your well I guess if
00:54:24you're diabetic maybe you could change your eating style but in many cases it's
00:54:28not the case there are there are afflictions that you have especially the
00:54:32mental health ones that you're not going to change a habit and get rid of your
00:54:36mental health without medication if you're one of the people who needs
00:54:40medication and it goes through basically telling the people disclaimers
00:54:45on you may still have the thing after I have quote-unquote delivered you from it
00:54:51such as page m24 it says encourage the prayee to take all current hurts quickly
00:54:58to God for healing so after you've been healed and you go home in the post
00:55:02deliverance ministry phase if they still have hurts then go quickly to God for
00:55:08healing so this whole thing it's basically reinventing the version that
00:55:14William Branham had where if you doubt and you go home the things gonna going
00:55:19to come back on you or I think the way that Branham and Bosworth said it is
00:55:24you'll go home you'll still feel it but don't doubt because if you doubt you'll
00:55:29you'll end up getting it and it'll come back on you that's all this thing is
00:55:33saying in other words I'm not going to heal you I'm role-playing all of this is
00:55:37fake and if you continue to be sick after I have delivered you then it's
00:55:43really on your shoulders you know John after it goes through that section where
00:55:48lists all of those different things that can keep you from getting healed you
00:55:52know you got that and here's the thing if you go through that list of things
00:55:55that can keep you from getting healed it doesn't matter who you are in the world
00:56:00we can find something on that list wrong with you basically right do you feel
00:56:04have you ever felt guilty in your life about something have you ever felt fear
00:56:09in your life about something have you ever doubted in your life you know you
00:56:17can go to you it does not matter what that listed design in some such a way
00:56:21that we're gonna find one or multiple things wrong with you no matter what and
00:56:25so you've been prayed for diabetes the spirit of diabetes wasn't cast out now
00:56:31we're finding you got some guilty feelings you got some fear you got some
00:56:36this that and then it goes on and it walks you through how to tackle each one
00:56:41of those things specifically now that you've identified this root cause in the
00:56:45person and I gotta be honest John these things are things that are gonna screw
00:56:49up the lives of any person who actually listens to the wicked person who tries
00:56:55to practice this evil stuff on him and by the time you get to L they have an
00:56:59entire section on curses okay I'm gonna skip over some and go to the curses so
00:57:05maybe they've decided that the reason that you can't be healed is because you
00:57:11have a curse and it goes through it's outrageous you know all of these
00:57:17different ways that you can get a curse on you and the curse might not be the
00:57:23curse might be what's causing you to not be able to get this healing or this
00:57:27thing you're asking for you can't have deliverance because you have a curse and
00:57:31so there's all of these things in here about how to get the curse how to break
00:57:35a curse there's a whole section on here how can one break a curse John is there
00:57:40anything in the Bible about breaking the curse is I mean I mean other than the
00:57:45curse which Jesus delivered us from by death on the cross we're delivered from
00:57:49the curse through Christ I mean where are they getting this stuff from I'm
00:57:53gonna tell you where they're getting it from they're getting it from Gordon
00:57:56Lindsay and the deliverance school and Paul Cain all the way back this is where
00:58:00this stuff transmitted from this is not in the Bible this is not Christianity
00:58:06these are pseudoscience stuff pseudo religious stuff and occultic stuff that
00:58:13got absorbed into 1800s British Israel ism imported into early Pentecostal ism
00:58:20in the British Israelite branch of Pentecostal ism passed down through the
00:58:23latter rain movement to the Christian identity movement to through the latter
00:58:27rain to men through men like William Branham through men like Paul Cain
00:58:30through these deliverance schools that they created into I hop into vineyard
00:58:36and these other groups that invited these people in for a time I'm so glad
00:58:40vineyard threw all them out good for you vineyard but this is where these things
00:58:46came from this is what they are and it is frankly outrageous outrageous and and
00:58:56if you just think through the harm I mean the absolute toll of destroyed
00:59:02lives that these things have caused Derek Prince practice all this stuff too
00:59:06right maybe one day we should do an episode on Derek Prince and his
00:59:10involvement in all this stuff these guys practice all of this stuff and they left
00:59:14behind them tens of thousands of absolutely destroyed lives because of
00:59:21this stuff they even killed people through all this this if you follow this
00:59:24out to it's like this will kill you this stuff will kill you it will absolutely
00:59:28kill you if you follow some of the stuff out to its logical conclusions this is
00:59:34not stuff to be apologetic for this is stuff to condemn absolutely condemn this
00:59:42stuff this is so far off the rails I mean God have mercy I mean some of these
00:59:46people need locked up I mean this is they're killing people they're killing
00:59:50people and yet I still struggle not to laugh because these are adults who are
00:59:54role-playing I you know I mentioned earlier Dungeon Dragons I've actually
00:59:59never played Dungeons and Dragons I've played other role-playing games but that
01:00:03one was one that was so strongly condemned and this book it reads to me
01:00:07of Charles if you've ever played a role-playing game those of you in the
01:00:10audience who have you you understand what I'm saying here but so this book is
01:00:15teaching you how to role-play as the Holy Spirit you are role-playing as the
01:00:20Holy Spirit in front of your church but you're level one and if somebody
01:00:25approaches you that has a level five demon on them you're not gonna you're
01:00:29not gonna get him up if they have a Masonic family they're level five and
01:00:33you're level one you can't cast it out and so you've got to wait wait until
01:00:38either they get demoted in level or you get a sin to level five to conquer it
01:00:42and that's not the way it works man is is the God so weak that it can't cast
01:00:48out the demon if you're claiming that this is you know I I no longer believe
01:00:53in this way if somebody has cancer I know how cancer works you can study how
01:00:58cancer works it's it's widely published medical knowledge how cancer works and
01:01:04it's you know it's a deadly disease in some cases in other cases doctors have
01:01:09the tools now to help you through and bring it back into remission and in some
01:01:14cases eradicate it these ministers don't have those tools they can role-play all
01:01:19they want but in the end if you have a cancer that's invading your body the
01:01:24worst thing that can happen to you is to go to one of these deliverance ministers
01:01:27and put your faith in them instead of the doctors because then you're gonna go
01:01:31home and you will die and when all the family comes to these men and they say
01:01:37I'm sorry they had a level 5 demon and I'm only level 1 I can't cure it
01:01:42therefore they died the family have been manipulated to believe that this man who
01:01:48just cost them in some cases cost them the life of a family member is speaking
01:01:54honest to God truth to them for me that's the problem role-playing is fine
01:01:58church is not the place for it obviously but if these men want to play like
01:02:03children they can go play like children but don't do it at the expense of other
01:02:07people's lives it is so sad John it's so sad you know I think just look the way
01:02:14those divine healing things the way they carry out just the way they destroy lives
01:02:18I mean and you and I come from the message John I mean we have seen I mean
01:02:23how many hundreds thousands of people do we know that live this kind of through
01:02:28these sorts of things and we could just talk for so long about how these things
01:02:35are so harmful to people I know I could for sure and that's just the divine
01:02:40healing instruction section there's another section on there on how to do a
01:02:43word of knowledge to read into people's lives and to give them words of
01:02:47knowledge for their future and it's all just manipulation the whole thing is
01:02:51manipulation as you go through it you know does God heal people absolutely God
01:02:58heals people does God know everything in the future in the past and the hidden
01:03:02secrets he sure does yeah of course he does right but he don't give training
01:03:07manuals for these sort of things and hand them out to people and tell them go
01:03:13probe around and screw up people's lives and play around with stuff God don't do
01:03:17that you know but that is what this stuff is this is a these are really just
01:03:22people grasping at straws coming up with things to try and make themselves feel
01:03:27big and important thinking some of them actually thinking they're doing the will
01:03:30of God but actually at the end of the day destroying ruining harming the lives
01:03:36of the people that they perform this on and the poor people that sit there this
01:03:41stuff is brainwashing the brainwashing techniques are in it the poor people
01:03:45will sit there and they will genuinely believe the stuff the preachers telling
01:03:48them my family has a curse and that's why I can't get healed my family has a
01:03:53curse that's why these things are happening to me I have a spirit of
01:03:57diabetes and and I just don't have enough faith to get the spirit of
01:04:01diabetes cast off me I'm a I'm a bad person oh I have a guilt over you know
01:04:08situation that happened 50 years ago in my life and God is punishing me for they
01:04:13this is the stuff that this creates and all of this puts burdens on those people
01:04:18it makes them feel bad it hurts their lives instead of just telling them Jesus
01:04:24loves you Jesus died for your sins right you can be free instead this just hems
01:04:31guilt and pain and suffering on people right it is so sad John it just breaks
01:04:37my heart looking at these things absolutely if you understand in the
01:04:41terms of a role player then leave the men who are level one and go to the
01:04:48level 100 God because these guys they can pretend to be the Holy Spirit all
01:04:52they want they will never ascend past the level that they're at so this has
01:04:58been crazy fun Charles I I could go on forever on the nonsense that's in this
01:05:03book but everyone who's listening you get the picture it's it's a nonsense
01:05:07term that has been invented there is no deliverance minister you know in the
01:05:12Bible if you go look for the term deliverance minister in the Bible you're
01:05:16not gonna find it this is not a thing God sent the Holy Spirit and as much as
01:05:21these men want to imitate the Holy Spirit it's a fake imitation so if you
01:05:27have enjoyed our show and you want more information you can check us out on the
01:05:29web you can find us at William dash Branham org and Christian gospel church
01:05:34org for more information about the history of William Branham and the
01:05:38healing revivals you can read come out of her my people available on Amazon and
01:05:43Kindle and for more information on the dark side of latter rain you and the NAR
01:05:48you can read weaponized religion from Christian identity to the NAR available
01:05:53on Amazon Kindle and audible
01:06:04you
01:06:34you