• 3 months ago
Panorama.S2014E14.Dont.Take.My.Car.Bailiffs.Undercover
Transcript
00:00Tonight on Panorama, we go undercover to expose the bailiffs bringing misery to motorists.
00:09I was in shock, I really was. I mean, I couldn't believe the parking tickets had gone up that much.
00:17We investigate how £65 fines can spiral out of control.
00:22£567, actually £777.
00:26What starts out as a very small issue quickly ramps up into something that can destroy people's lives.
00:33And then you have removal costs, and then you have storage costs, and you've got over £1,000.
00:40And can end with your car being taken to pay off the debt.
00:44And he said he's going to seize my BMW over a bus lane ticket.
00:48As new government rules come into force, we ask, will they really stop bailiffs who behave like this?
00:55I'm going to take the microwave, OK, take the fish tanks.
00:59I'll come back and take the paint off your walls as well. I'll leave you with nothing.
01:14Parking is big business, with town halls in England raking in nearly a billion pounds a year.
01:20A third of it from parking fines.
01:25Meet Britain's parking bailiffs.
01:27They're hired by councils to make sure that motorists who notch up parking tickets don't get away scot-free.
01:34The firms they work for are worth big money, and the bailiffs can turn a tidy penny too.
01:40This job, if you do it right, I mean, a week leading up to Christmas, I think two grand or something one way.
01:48Bailiffs say it's a difficult job. They've got to be ready for abuse and worse.
01:57They say they can be trusted to do it fair and square,
02:00giving to the rules that govern how much they can charge for collecting debts.
02:05We've been handed a hefty file of documents, a detailed breakdown of bailiff fees,
02:12which raises concerns about the fees being charged by some of Britain's leading bailiff companies.
02:19It highlights several bailiff firms, including Equita, JBW and Newlyn.
02:25The file details the company's debt enforcement in ten councils across London and the South East.
02:32We wanted to see for ourselves what was going on, so we sent in an undercover journalist.
02:39He got a job as a trainee with JBW, an award-winning bailiff firm based in Darlington.
02:46Roger, hi, I'm here from the bailiff's office.
02:48This is JBW's boss, Jamie Waller.
02:53He's become something of a celebrity.
02:56Here he is on daytime telly. He's also a cheerleader for the industry.
03:02Our strapline is a trusted approach.
03:04What we say is, actually, if you employ our services, we will do the right thing.
03:09The bailiff showing off JBW's trusted approach is this man, John Iango.
03:15Sir, I'm a certificated bailiff from the courts, sir. I'm not a cowboy, OK?
03:20John, a JBW contractor, is supposed to stick to national guidelines.
03:24He's going to teach our undercover the tricks of the trade.
03:28Over a month, they make almost 200 visits.
03:32Where are you at with this? Is this, like, your first time?
03:35This is my first time.
03:39Hold up, there's another clamper.
03:42Go for it, mate, go for it.
03:44In a quarter of a mile, turn left onto Pretender Road.
03:49He'll learn where to make money.
03:51If you go on this one, you make about 120 quid.
03:55How to clamp a car.
03:57And how to make debtors pay up.
04:00I give the impression to people that I'm going to take things.
04:03Quite nasty, actually.
04:05But it's the only effective way that it works, sort of thing.
04:11Meet Keith Greenaway, minicab driver.
04:14He's found out the hard way how some bailiffs operate.
04:18Keith has three outstanding parking tickets,
04:20and he's got a lot of money.
04:22He mistakenly thought the council had torn them up
04:25following an appeal last autumn.
04:32In February this year,
04:34John Yangu and our undercover paid Keith a visit.
04:37Bailiffs start early so they can catch people at home.
04:41And by about seven o'clock,
04:43the bailiff has clamped Keith's money.
04:47He's got a lot of money.
04:49And by about seven o'clock, the bailiff has clamped Keith's minicab.
04:56JBW bailiffs are given a handheld device,
04:59which records every visit.
05:01It also tells them how much to charge debtors like Keith.
05:13Hello, I'm from JBW. We've just clamped your car.
05:16Can we come upstairs to see you, sir?
05:20Keith works late shifts and has barely had time
05:23to put his trousers on before the bailiff comes in.
05:42I was in shock, I really was.
05:44I mean, I couldn't believe the parking tickets had gone up that much.
05:47I was expecting maybe twice something like £180, £200 per ticket.
06:04Keith is being treated for skin cancer
06:06and he says he's had lengthy spells off work
06:09to recover from a series of eye operations.
06:17I don't want to take your car away.
06:24I mean, this is seven o'clock in the morning.
06:26I didn't know what they were allowed to do.
06:28All I knew was if they took the car away, I'd be unemployed.
06:33So how did Keith's bill go up from free £55 tickets
06:36to more than £1,800?
06:39JBW says this was the third time a bailiff had visited Keith.
06:45On each of the three visits,
06:47JBW has tripled most of the fees it charges.
06:50This is called multiple charging.
06:52It's allowed, but is it fair?
06:57Where multiple fees have been charged for a council tax debt,
07:01the local government ombudsman said
07:03that placed a wholly unreasonable burden on people already in debt.
07:09John the bailiff is paid on commission,
07:12a 40% cut from some of the fees he collects for JBW.
07:16If the debtor doesn't pay up, he doesn't get paid.
07:31Keith has made it clear that as a result of ill health,
07:35he's struggling to pay.
07:37Under government guidelines, which do allow John some discretion,
07:40he should tell the council that Keith is a potentially vulnerable debtor,
07:44but he doesn't.
07:46If Keith is to get the clamp off his cab, he needs some money,
07:49so he asks his neighbour, Steve, to help.
07:53Er, Steve?
07:55Terrible, mate. Can you do us a favour?
07:57Can you lend us £610?
08:00I'm upstairs. I'll bring the guys down, OK?
08:03His neighbour pays off one of the tickets for £610.
08:09But they'll get this back, they will, won't they?
08:11Yes, they will.
08:14Keith still owes £1,200,
08:16so John calls head office to ask about a monthly payment plan.
08:21But, John says at this stage, they don't seem willing to help.
08:26He's having treatment for skin cancer,
08:28and he's a minicab driver, he needs a car to work,
08:32so is JBW willing to do that or not?
08:35Have you got proof of your treatment, sir, so you can update that as well?
08:39I'll call you back once we've found something, OK?
08:42All right, then.
08:43They're not willing to take £100, are they?
08:46I can't do any more than that at the moment, mate, because I'm skinny.
08:51The bailiff finally agrees to unclamp the minicab.
08:54What Keith wasn't told is that bailiffs are forbidden
08:57from removing a debtor's tools of trade,
08:59in this case, Keith's minicab.
09:02John knew this all along, but clamped it nonetheless
09:05so that he could use it as a bargaining tool.
09:24Right.
09:29Made £133 out of that one, mate.
09:34Three weeks later, JBW put Keith on a monthly repayment plan.
09:40Citizens Advice questioned 350 parking ticket debtors
09:44about the bailiff industry.
09:46One in three said bailiffs had threatened force.
09:49A quarter were told that items would be taken
09:52that didn't belong to the debtor.
09:54We found that people were scared and intimidated routinely by bailiffs,
09:58that what starts out as a very small issue
10:01quickly ramps up into something that can destroy people's lives.
10:07John Yangu, meanwhile, is looking for a motorist
10:10who owes more than £1,000 for two parking fines.
10:13There's somebody there.
10:17Hello there, madam from JBW.
10:20I'm looking for Mr... He has to pay £1,107.
10:25The woman tells John that the debtor is out of the country.
10:28Madam, I have to come and...
10:31She doesn't speak English, so a neighbour offers to translate.
10:35Our undercover points out a letter from the DVLA
10:38addressed to the debtor,
10:40but it's not there when John goes to look at it.
10:43There was a letter on top of the microwave, a DVLA letter.
10:46Where is it? It's been taken away.
10:49Show me the letter.
10:51By law, only the debtor can be made to pay,
10:54but ignoring the rules, John demands more than £500
10:58and threatens to remove goods.
11:00Listen, he has to pay money now.
11:03Otherwise, I take television...
11:08When she insists she has no money, John gets angry.
11:12Don't wind me up, madam, all right?
11:15Tell her not to take the piss, mate.
11:17It'll get worse for her.
11:19Basically, I'm not going to leave on you nothing in here.
11:22I'm going to take the microwave, OK?
11:24I'll take the fish tanks.
11:30Then John appears to think she's just been rude to him.
11:33I'll come back and take the paint off your walls as well, OK?
11:37I'll leave you with nothing.
11:39Don't take the piss out of me.
11:43I will be back.
11:45And I will be back at six o'clock in the morning
11:47and I will come and take everything.
11:52John the bailiff finishes off with some choice words
11:55about the family he's just intimidated.
11:59Now you get what I mean about...
12:10Back in the van, the bailiff tells the undercover
12:13that his behaviour should serve as a lesson in how to do the job.
12:22John's handheld device is supposed to record the whole visit,
12:25but not this time.
12:28I made sure that wasn't recorded.
12:38People are very often very, very frightened by bailiffs.
12:42That is partly to do with their physical presence,
12:45but much more often it's to do with just deliberately aggressive
12:48and threatening behaviour.
12:51But it's not just the behaviour of individual bailiffs
12:54that's causing concern.
12:56It's what some bailiffs charge for.
12:58There are laws governing bailiffs' fees,
13:00but they can be difficult for the debtor to understand.
13:06Biker Andrew Stapley is with the campaign group The No To Mob.
13:10They've uncovered evidence of just how big some bailiffs' bills can be.
13:15They're exploiting a little-known law to compel local authorities
13:19to hand over sample invoices,
13:21detailing the fees charged by bailiff companies
13:24working for the councils.
13:28This is the upshot of The No To Mob's work.
13:31Bills from the bailiff companies to motorists
13:34who haven't paid their parking fines.
13:36Some of these bills can run up to hundreds,
13:38sometimes thousands of pounds.
13:41Here's one from Newlyn for £2,244.20p.
13:47The bailiff companies say their charges are lawful and reasonable,
13:51but some motorists use one word to describe bailiff charges.
13:55Disproportionate.
13:58Andrew Stapley has also helped The No To Mob
14:01uncover evidence of charges they believe to be wrong.
14:05We was really scrutinising the contracts.
14:08And we went on to the bailiff contracts
14:12and about how they was just carrying out their business
14:15and doing their work, and we just found things that were wrong.
14:20Double charges or incorrect charges.
14:25Some of the concerns were about fees charged on the bailiff's first visit.
14:30This should be an opportunity for debtors to settle the fine.
14:35Meet Steve Hobart from Essex.
14:37He owns a fleet of black cabs.
14:39When one of his drivers failed to settle a ticket,
14:42a man from the bailiff firm Equiter turned up at his door,
14:45demanding payment.
14:48The visit was recorded on Steve's CCTV.
14:52I answered the door, and when he turned round and said to me,
14:55£667, I could have fallen over.
14:59The original fine was for £60.
15:02Steve wanted to know how the bill could be so high.
15:07He said to me, he's not there to explain why,
15:10he's just there to collect the money.
15:12Steve asked for a breakdown of the fees from Equiter's head office,
15:16included in the bill was a £260 charge for sending a van
15:20to take away his goods.
15:22So where was the van?
15:24So what are we expecting to see here, Steve?
15:26We'd expect to see a truck capable of removing a two-tonne taxi
15:30or taking away household goods to meet the value of their charges.
15:35Here he arrives, here he comes.
15:37This is our bailiff.
15:39I'm not Jeremy Clarkson, but that's no tow truck.
15:42That's a car.
15:44He'd be lucky to get a telly in there, wouldn't he?
15:47Not even fitted with a roof rack.
15:49So why did you pay the bill?
15:52I paid it under duress.
15:54The threat of them coming in and removing goods,
15:57in the end I paid it just so I could put an end to the matter.
16:01Equiter says all its fees and charges are applied according to the law,
16:05agreed client guidelines and industry best practice.
16:10But it's when bailiffs take your car that things can go from bad to worse.
16:15Motorists can be charged for removing and selling their cars
16:19to pay off the debt.
16:21And these charges can rapidly escalate,
16:24costing the motorist thousands of pounds.
16:30John the bailiff and our undercover are still working the streets of London.
16:36Here you go.
16:38Hello.
16:41Good morning, sir.
16:43Are you from JBW?
16:45John is pursuing a debt for a parking ticket.
16:48If I leave a letter with you, will you hand it to her?
16:51No.
16:55No problem, mate, no problem.
17:00There's a reason the man behind the door isn't being friendly to a bailiff.
17:05No problem.
17:08The ticket has already been paid,
17:10but Laurent Howes is in a long-running dispute with his council
17:14over a series of other tickets.
17:22Laurent is a full-time volunteer at a swan sanctuary.
17:29Come on, fella.
17:32Bottletop, usual kind of thing that we get over here.
17:35There you go.
17:37Every day, he crosses London in his veterinary ambulance.
17:41I could get calls from anyone, the police, rail track, Thames Water.
17:46Fortunately, with my van being an ambulance,
17:48I can use the bus lanes to get to where I've got to go.
17:51Say, in the rush hour, I've got an Indian swan in the back.
17:55Ambulances on official business are allowed to use the capital's bus lanes
18:00by law, and Laurent's vehicle is taxed and registered as an ambulance.
18:05Yet one London borough repeatedly fines him.
18:08Barking and Dagenham Council issued the first ticket in 2009,
18:13and more followed.
18:15I went back to the council and said,
18:17you're sending me these bus lane tickets,
18:19you're wasting money actually doing this,
18:21just knock some heads together and see if you can sort the problem out for me.
18:25And what happened?
18:26Nothing. The bus lane tickets just kept coming.
18:29Kept coming.
18:31At least 30 tickets were issued over the next few years,
18:35and while some were cancelled or waived, three were passed to JBW.
18:41By June last year, the company was demanding more than £2,000,
18:45so it sent one of its bailiffs to his house.
18:50And he said he's going to seize my BMW over a bus lane ticket
18:54for my veterinary ambulance.
18:56So we had a little bit of a dispute about it.
19:00You've got no right to park in front of my drive.
19:03Get your van off my property.
19:05All right? You're not going to do it? No.
19:07All right, I'll call the police.
19:09The incident was filmed on Laurent's mobile phone.
19:12The police, please.
19:15With the bailiff refusing to move,
19:17Laurent hoped the police would intervene to resolve the dispute.
19:21The police, who I thought was there to help me,
19:25actually came into my home and put me in handcuffs.
19:28You said to me you're not going to break the peace.
19:30I'm not breaking... I just...
19:33Official police guidance makes it clear
19:35that officers should not help bailiffs remove people's goods.
19:39But Laurent says the two officers refused to release him
19:42until he agreed to let the bailiff move its tow truck
19:45onto the driveway and take his car.
19:48I'm a law-abiding citizen... I'm not saying you're not.
19:50..and you've allowed this to happen.
19:56The bailiff took Laurent's BMW, worth around £15,000,
20:01to pay for three disputed tickets.
20:04The car was sold for just over £12,000.
20:09JBW took a hefty £3,490.
20:16Laurent felt that more than 1,600 of the fees and charges
20:20hadn't been properly explained.
20:23That's just... It's impossible.
20:25It's impossible to work out.
20:29JBW says it did provide a breakdown of the fees
20:32and Mr Howes didn't ask for them to be broken down further.
20:38It says its bailiff complied with all relevant obligations
20:41in his dealings with Mr Howes.
20:44The Metropolitan Police said the incident was being investigated
20:47as part of a civil complaint made by the family
20:50and it was unable to comment.
20:54Laurent Howes is not the only motorist to face steep bills
20:57after failing to pay a ticket.
21:00The invoices obtained by the No2 mob shine a light on the fees
21:04motorists are charged by the bailiff companies
21:07once their cars have been removed.
21:09Take this invoice from JBW.
21:12For storage, that means garaging, £420, plus VAT.
21:18For getting keys cut, £180, plus VAT.
21:23The whole bill tops up to almost £2,000.
21:26Now, the bailiff companies say their charges are fair and reasonable,
21:30but motorists say, oh, no, they're not.
21:36The law sets out that the charges for removing and selling cars
21:39should be reasonable,
21:41but it's left the courts to define what this means in practice.
21:46If it's the councils that are hiring the bailiffs
21:49to collect unpaid parking fines,
21:51shouldn't they ensure that motorists are being treated fairly?
21:56The No2 mob, which has been investigating bailiff fees,
21:59says the councils aren't doing enough to check up on the bailiffs.
22:04They're getting away with it simply because nobody's looking at them.
22:07Nobody's monitoring what they do.
22:10But one council acted on the campaign group's findings
22:14and suspended JBW.
22:17They were acting outside of the rules and regulations
22:21and they were charging for things that they didn't actually do
22:25and were charging for things which they're not entitled to do as well.
22:31The council said it made JBW return £13,000 to motorists
22:36who had been overcharged.
22:39The company was reinstated after a month.
22:43So, as we speak, JBW is still collecting debts for Hackney Council?
22:49Yes, that's correct.
22:51But be in no doubt, if we hear instances of this happening again,
22:55we will suspend the contract, we will investigate
22:58and, if need be, we will terminate that contract.
23:02JBW disputes Hackney's version of events.
23:06But what happens when councils fail to hold bailiff companies to account?
23:11Who do motorists turn to if they believe bailiffs are in the wrong?
23:16I think most people who are in the position of being up against bailiffs
23:20are in a very vulnerable position.
23:23For starters, they don't understand the law necessarily
23:26and they're in a terrible position to push back
23:28because it's hard for ordinary people to sue the bailiffs, for example,
23:32or take other action.
23:36Laurent Hauser had already lost one car,
23:40but the tickets for driving his ambulance in bus lanes kept coming.
23:44In February, he started getting visits from another bailiff company, Newlyn.
23:51Its bailiff, Robert Kaminski,
23:53was demanding more than £1,500 for free tickets.
23:58He said he was there to seize the ambulance
24:00and he actually said that he was going to take not only my ambulance
24:04but he was also going to take my wife's car as well.
24:07I then said to him,
24:08you're not going to be seizing my car, my car is in my name.
24:11It has nothing to do with the ambulance
24:13and it has nothing to do with my husband, it's solely my car.
24:16We all need our cars.
24:18Beverly uses hers for work.
24:20She helps victims of domestic violence.
24:24And then the next thing I know, he's put my ambulance on the tow truck
24:28and then I looked out and he's pushing my wife's car out into the street.
24:32Lawrence Ambulance is essential to his voluntary work.
24:35As a tool of trade, it should not have been taken by the bailiff.
24:39Nor was the bailiff allowed by law to take Beverly's car.
24:43She's not the debtor.
24:45Mr Kaminski says he was legally entitled to remove her car
24:49as he reasonably believed it belonged to her husband.
24:52Newlyn says its bailiff acted within the law in his dealings with the couple.
24:57Just went away with them.
24:58Haven't heard anything since. Absolutely nothing.
25:01So we don't know where our vehicles are.
25:07The House reported the bailiff to the police
25:10and they appealed to the bailiff company.
25:12But in vain.
25:16When I meet with the House,
25:18they still don't know the whereabouts of Beverly's car or the Swan ambulance.
25:22So they call the bailiff, Mr Kaminski.
25:26Hello, Mr Kaminski. I'd like to know what you've done with our cars.
25:31OK, two cars on the driveway, yes, I remember.
25:34So as I know, your car, van, has been sold already.
25:39Who sold it?
25:42The towing company sold my van?
25:47OK, Mr Kaminski, it's Mrs House here.
25:49In regards to my Vauxhall, what do I need to do to get my car back?
25:54And where is it?
26:00Very good and that's your property. Simple as that.
26:05The House have now had two cars and an ambulance seized from them,
26:09with a total value of more than £30,000 over disputed tickets.
26:16Barking & Dagenham Council says both bailiff companies acted properly
26:20and that it was right to enforce payment against Mr House,
26:24as he had not always provided a defence or adequate grounds for exemption.
26:29For our undercover, after 12 days as a trainee bailiff,
26:33it was the end of the road. He was sacked.
26:36JBW said he was unsuitable for the role.
26:40Yesterday, the government brought in new rules limiting the powers of bailiffs.
26:45There's also a new simplified fee structure,
26:48but the first visit will be more costly.
26:51Debtors will now pay, with the fine, as much as £500.
26:56There are some small improvements,
26:58but the gaping hole in this is a lack of regulation.
27:01So we want to see a much stronger, independent, tough regulator.
27:06So will there be an independent regulator?
27:09My responsibility is to say to local authorities
27:12that if you are employing bailiffs,
27:15that you should employ them in an ethical and reasonable way,
27:19that you should look in terms of fines to be reasonable towards the mortuaries.
27:24But that's wonderful, Mr Pickles, but unless you have a regulator,
27:27all of this is pie in the sky.
27:29That's something that the Justice Secretary will address.
27:33The Ministry of Justice has told us
27:36there are currently no plans for a regulator.
27:40Following our investigation, John Yangu was suspended by JBW.
27:45Mr Griffin, you have to pay money now, otherwise I take television.
27:51The company says, as a self-employed contractor,
27:54he was acting outside its policies and procedures.
27:57It says it's apologised to three people
28:00whose cases were raised by Panorama.
28:03Mr Yangu told us he takes personal responsibility
28:06for the isolated comments made.
28:09Newland have told us that Mrs Howe's car will be returned.
28:14But the veterinary ambulance,
28:16Lawrence has given up all hope of ever getting it back.
28:21And on Thursday, don't cut my benefits.
28:24I'm only there for a year and I can be uprooted all over again
28:27to come back to London. It doesn't make any kind of sense.
28:30A Panorama special on the front line of Britain's benefit reforms.
28:50A Panorama special on the front line of Britain's benefit reforms.
28:55A Panorama special on the front line of Britain's benefit reforms.