#AiterazHai #ConstitutionalAmendment #QaziFaezIsa #AsimMunir #PMShehbazSharif #KanwarDilshad #reservedseats #nationalassembly #electioncommission #supremecourt
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Kanwar Dilshad Former Secretary (E C P)
- Abid S Zuberi (Advocate Supreme Court Bar)
- Fawad Chaudhry (Politician)
New Constitutional Amendment - Will PMLN Govt Succeed? - Aniqa Nisar's Report
Agar Election Commission Faisla Nahi Maanta To Kya Hoga? Kanwar Dilshad
Oppostion Adalat Ka Darwaaza Khtkhtaye Gi ?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
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ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
(Current Affairs)
Host:
- Aniqa Nisar
Guests:
- Kanwar Dilshad Former Secretary (E C P)
- Abid S Zuberi (Advocate Supreme Court Bar)
- Fawad Chaudhry (Politician)
New Constitutional Amendment - Will PMLN Govt Succeed? - Aniqa Nisar's Report
Agar Election Commission Faisla Nahi Maanta To Kya Hoga? Kanwar Dilshad
Oppostion Adalat Ka Darwaaza Khtkhtaye Gi ?
Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY
Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP
ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.
Category
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NewsTranscript
00:00In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful, I am Anika Nisar with you.
00:14Today was a very busy day in the city of Ikhlaq.
00:18And this day is not over yet.
00:20As long as the night is still there, the day is still there.
00:23The situation seems to be similar in the political circles of Pakistan.
00:26There is a lot going on at this time.
00:29What is happening now?
00:30Before I tell you that, I will tell you today's entire situation.
00:33Today was the meeting of the Senate and the National Assembly.
00:37And in this meeting, it was expected till last night that the amendment will come today.
00:43And in this amendment, legislation will be passed today.
00:47Everything will be passed.
00:48And the matter will be resolved.
00:49The government will come out of this parliament with its hands down.
00:53But the matter was such that the Supreme Court cleared the matters in the July 12 decision.
01:01And what did the Supreme Court say while clearing?
01:04That the sessions that were discussed, the special sessions, are known to the PTI.
01:12The ECP has delayed this matter and there is some malafide in it.
01:16Then it was also said in paragraph 5 that
01:18Even on application of elementary principles of law, the application filed by the commission is misconceived,
01:24having itself recognized Barrister Gauhar Ali Khan as chairman of PTI.
01:28That is, Barrister Gauhar was officially accepted as chairman.
01:33On which the ECP's statement came out that there was nothing like this.
01:37We had not officially accepted Barrister Gauhar as chairman.
01:42After this, there was a problem in both the houses of the National Assembly and the Parliament.
01:50Will they be able to complete the number game or not?
01:55First of all, Mr. Ishaq Bihar told about the number game that it is our job to legislate.
01:59If the numbers are completed, then the legislation will come.
02:01If the numbers are not completed, then there will be no legislation.
02:03It is our job to legislate when, how and how to do it.
02:07So when there will be numbers, it is the prime responsibility of any government.
02:11I am not talking about myself.
02:12All the governments have been sitting here in the past.
02:14They have been bringing laws of their own accord.
02:16They are trying to do it.
02:17If there are numbers, then they will do it.
02:18This is obvious.
02:19If there are no numbers, then the work will not be done.
02:21This is the prerogative of every government.
02:23If the numbers are complete, then they will do the work.
02:25If the numbers are not complete, then there cannot be a constitutional amendment with simple legislation.
02:30After the Supreme Court's decision came, Barrister Ali Zafar said very clearly that the number game is over.
02:38The Supreme Court has given its first order of clarification.
02:42After that, I think the game of numbers is completely over.
02:46The Supreme Court has said that no matter how many people have become or are going to become parliamentary members of the PTI,
02:52they are members of the PTI parliamentary party.
02:55Article 63A applies to them.
02:58When a parliamentary leader says that you do not have to vote in their primary membership,
03:03the vote will not be counted.
03:05A lot of legal experts are also thinking that when a decision has been made about the special sessions,
03:10this matter will have to be delayed until there is a notification.
03:13And the way of constitutional amendment has been closed.
03:16I think Mr. Qusmani has also said the same thing.
03:19Now, their numbers will definitely increase because they will get reserve seats and something else.
03:26Therefore, they will definitely make noise.
03:29They will say that you cannot bring amendments until the notification of seats is issued.
03:35So, I think there will be a delay in this.
03:37They will not be able to bring amendments.
03:39So, the possibility of majority is over.
03:42Now, this was also felt by the unions.
03:44When Chairman of the Senate, Mr. Yusuf Razak Gilani said that the number game will be completed,
03:48then it will come at the same time.
03:49Reforms will also be done then.
03:50Reforms are basically person-specific or not a specific matter.
03:53The situation is not specific either.
03:55Even then, it was felt that maybe they will not be able to bring the constitutional amendment.
04:00Listen.
04:01The bill that is being passed is not specific.
04:04This is such a bill on which there is a matter of reform.
04:08And the speculation is that whether our numbers are complete or not.
04:13If they are complete, then we will pass the bill.
04:16Now, the government, the union of the government,
04:19was sitting here that if Maulana Fazlur Rehman Sahib meets us, then the number game will be completed.
04:23Kamran Murtaza Sahib complained to Maulana Fazlur Rehman Sahib's Jamaat that they should bring the constitutional amendment in front of us.
04:29Listen.
04:30Till now, nothing has been shown.
04:32Till we see, we will not talk.
04:34Till we see something with our own eyes,
04:37then we will tell you that this thing is acceptable to us and this thing is acceptable.
04:41The issue of constitutional amendment should be ended.
04:44Are you supporting Maulana Fazlur Rehman Sahib?
04:46It should be ended.
04:47But ultimately, the benefit should be for the people.
04:50First they show it, then we will talk about it.
04:52Till now, we have not seen anything.
05:22The amendment that came from the government was that a constitutional court should be made.
05:25Now, some details of the constitutional amendment have started to come out.
05:29We will keep that in front of you.
05:31But what does the number game say?
05:33The number game says that two-thirds majority should be there.
05:35In the Senate, first of all, let's talk about the coming.
05:38In the Senate and in the National Assembly.
05:41For constitutional amendment, there are 336 total members in the National Assembly.
05:46From which 224 members are needed for support.
05:51In the National Assembly, first of all, there are 313 members present at this time.
05:56The seats of women and minorities, which are 23 seats, which are mixed seats,
06:00about which the Supreme Court has also said,
06:02they are empty, they have not been notified.
06:05But the rest of the people present on the government benches at this time are 214 people.
06:10From which there are 111 members of PMLN present.
06:14There are 69 members of People's Party and 22 members of MQM present.
06:18There are 5 members of Qaf League.
06:20There are 4 members of Istehqam-e-Pakistan Party.
06:22And 1 National Party of Muslim League Zia.
06:241 Balochistan People's Party.
06:26In total, there are 214.
06:28Opposition has, at this time, the Sunni Unity Council.
06:31Or you can say PTI.
06:33There are 80.
06:34PTI-supported Azaad Arakeen.
06:368. JUI. 8. BNP.
06:391 Majlis-e-Wahdat-ul-Muslimeen.
06:411 Pashtun Khamili People's Party.
06:45In total, Opposition has 99 members present.
06:4910 members are needed.
06:51And if JUI comes here,
06:53then the matter can be turned around.
06:55After that, 2 members are needed.
06:57In which, as we know, 3 Azaad Arakeen have been elected.
07:01Then, if we talk about the Senate,
07:02the Senate needs 63 members for a two-thirds majority.
07:06The number of Arakeen in the Senate is 85.
07:09And there was no election on 11 seats of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.
07:12Do you remember?
07:13At that time, the same issue was raised.
07:15The issue of SIC and PTI.
07:17In the Senate, 64 Arakeen are needed for a two-thirds majority.
07:22And the government has 58 Arakeen present at this time.
07:26If JUI is included,
07:28the government can easily complete this number.
07:31The current situation is that
07:33Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman Sahib
07:35at this time, can enter or exit politics.
07:39For the government and for PTI.
07:41The government Arakeen have reached.
07:43They have met Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman Sahib.
07:45During this time,
07:46it was 9 o'clock,
07:47Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman Sahib met PTI Arakeen.
07:51Between 9.15 and 9.30,
07:53PTI Arakeen have gone.
07:55They were already meeting there.
07:57Azam Nazeer Tarar Sahib was present there.
07:59PTI Arakeen have returned.
08:01And now, they have gone again.
08:03In such a situation,
08:04it has also been heard that
08:05Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman Sahib has seen the opportunity.
08:08Or the government Arakeen have taken the opportunity.
08:11At the same time,
08:13parallelly,
08:14Azam Nazeer Tarar Sahib has also thrown a banner
08:16for his allies.
08:18And in that,
08:19the allies and their people have been convinced.
08:22Tomorrow,
08:23100% chances of this reform
08:26are according to our means.
08:29Tomorrow, obviously,
08:30politics is a name of possibilities.
08:32Let's see what happens.
08:33But, in this whole situation,
08:35the Supreme Court's decision,
08:36how it will be affected,
08:38we have to discuss that.
08:39The guests present with us,
08:40I will introduce them.
08:41Mr. Abid Zubair, you are present.
08:43Senior Lawyer.
08:44Former President of the Supreme Court Bar.
08:46Thank you very much.
08:47Mr. Abid Zubair, you have joined us.
08:48Mr. Kabir Dulshad is present with us.
08:50Former Secretary of ECP.
08:52Thank you very much.
08:53Mr. Kabir Dulshad, you have also joined us.
08:54Mr. Kabir, first of all,
08:55let's start with you.
08:56All the blame was placed on the ECP.
08:59You had a malefied idea.
09:00You were trying to delay.
09:02What kind of delaying tactic is this?
09:04Whereas, under Article 189 and Article 190,
09:07every institution has to follow
09:09the orders of the Supreme Court.
09:14You are right.
09:16The decision of the Supreme Court of Pakistan
09:19is that all the institutions
09:21have to follow the orders of the Supreme Court.
09:24But, here, a big technical issue has arisen.
09:27Our guest is present, Mr. Zubair.
09:29The most important thing in this is that
09:31the Election Commission of Pakistan
09:33has submitted a request for a second look.
09:36And, a question was asked to the ECP
09:38that the Inter-Party Election of Tehreek-e-Insaf
09:41has not taken place.
09:43And, when the Inter-Party Election
09:45has not taken place for five years,
09:47there is no structure.
09:48And, there is no chairman or secretary-general
09:50in the record of the Election Commission of Pakistan.
09:52So, who will sign the documents?
09:54So, today, the ECP has rejected
09:57the request for a second look.
10:00But, another question arises that
10:03the Supreme Court of Pakistan
10:05should have mentioned the Inter-Party Election
10:08in its judgment.
10:11Now, the Election Commission of Pakistan
10:13is standing on the point that
10:15the result of the Inter-Party Election
10:18has not yet been announced.
10:20It is still under discussion.
10:22So, when it is under discussion,
10:24there is no structure of the party.
10:26And, on the other hand,
10:28Ali Gauhar is the chairman of the party.
10:31So, this is a very controversial issue
10:33that has arisen
10:34between the Supreme Court of Pakistan
10:36and the Election Commission of Pakistan.
10:38This is a big dilemma for both.
10:40And, that is why the Election Commission of Pakistan
10:42is taking its stand
10:44that as long as the Inter-Party Election
10:46does not take place,
10:47we do not promise to act on the decision
10:49of the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
10:52So, we have mentioned this.
10:54But, between the lines, this is what it means.
10:57But, the way the news is coming
10:59from their sources,
11:00both the institutions are standing
11:02in front of us.
11:03And, the decision will be taken
11:05by the Supreme Court of Pakistan.
11:07It is an eight-point decision.
11:09It is an eight-point decision.
11:11And, they have turned it against us.
11:13Right.
11:14Now, Mr. Kamar Dalshad,
11:17now the matter has gone towards
11:19the clash of institutions.
11:21Now, Mr. Zubair,
11:22the ECB has put forward its position.
11:24The Supreme Court has said
11:25that you will have to follow the decision.
11:27There is no two thoughts about it.
11:29But, the point is
11:30that this constitutional amendment
11:32is coming tomorrow.
11:33At this time,
11:34the members are not yet notified
11:36who can be imagined as PTI.
11:39Those sessions are still vacant.
11:41In such a situation,
11:42it is also easy to get a majority
11:43for the government.
11:44Then, another news is coming
11:45that the government is thinking
11:47to make an amendment
11:48even in Article 63A.
11:49So, if the current debate
11:51is read along with the Supreme Court's decision,
11:53is it possible that the constitutional amendment
11:55comes and the constitutional amendment
11:56is passed by the government?
12:00In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
12:02Thank you very much, Neeka.
12:04Look, the first thing is that
12:05this is not a second opinion request.
12:08This second opinion request is pending.
12:10And, there is no hearing on it
12:11nor is there any stay.
12:12Absolutely.
12:13Number one.
12:14In that order itself,
12:15they had asked for a clarification
12:17from the Supreme Court.
12:18The Election Commission of Pakistan
12:20had given an application
12:21that you tell us
12:22what we should do
12:23on the matter
12:24that Mr. Qawad-e-Ishaq has just said.
12:26So, in two words,
12:27the Supreme Court has said
12:28that you have yourself
12:29admitted him,
12:30Barrister Gauhar Ali Khan,
12:32that he is the chairman of PTI
12:34and Umar Ayub is the secretary.
12:36And, you see,
12:37you are talking today,
12:38a letter is present,
12:39I think,
12:40on 24th August,
12:412024,
12:44in which he himself
12:45has accepted
12:47that Gauhar Ali Khan is the chairman.
12:49And, whether he does it or not,
12:51I do not think
12:52there will be any controversy.
12:53To make that controversy,
12:54he did not agree
12:55with the Supreme Court's
12:56election.
12:57So, even now,
12:58his masters will tell him
12:59that you do not want to do it.
13:00But, the Supreme Court
13:01has said a big thing
13:02in its order
13:03that we have decided
13:04that these seats,
13:0511 judges had said
13:06that these were the people
13:07of PTI,
13:08these were the people
13:09of PTI.
13:10In which,
13:11the Chief Justice
13:12had said
13:13that we had never
13:14taken a baton.
13:15We had not said
13:16that he will be released.
13:17The Election Commission
13:18made a wrong interpretation.
13:19The fundamental mistake
13:20was that
13:21because of this,
13:22the court said
13:23that it was wrong.
13:24So, it is a decision
13:25of the Supreme Court
13:26that they will have to
13:27accept it.
13:28Yes, naturally,
13:29they will not do it.
13:30The government is
13:31prohibiting them
13:32and their masters
13:33are prohibiting them
13:34that you do not want to do it.
13:35But, the most important
13:36thing that the Supreme Court
13:37has said in this,
13:38you see,
13:39there is an order in front of you.
13:40In that,
13:41the Supreme Court
13:42has clearly said
13:43that whether he
13:44issues a notification
13:45or not,
13:46it was a ministerial work.
13:47Meaning,
13:48the Supreme Court
13:49has said that
13:50he is a member
13:51of the PTI.
13:52So, this thing
13:53has become clear.
13:54These 41 people
13:55are from the PTI.
13:56Here, the Supreme Court
13:57has said it in two words.
13:58It was said earlier
13:59that they themselves
14:00asked for clarification.
14:01They gave that clarification
14:02to them.
14:03Now, they do not
14:04have any option
14:05to do it.
14:06If they do not do it,
14:07then the Supreme Court
14:08should immediately
14:09take action against them.
14:10As far as
14:11the interpretation
14:12that you have done,
14:13the government,
14:14you see,
14:15the government
14:16is inclined
14:17to somehow
14:18take action
14:19against them.
14:20These things
14:21will come later.
14:22Right now,
14:23they are members,
14:24so they cannot
14:25vote.
14:26Even if they
14:27take an amendment
14:28and Maulana
14:29Sahab
14:30supports them,
14:31till yesterday
14:32they had issued
14:33an order
14:34that no one
14:35will do it
14:36based on a
14:37constitutional amendment.
14:38You just heard
14:39Kamran Murtaza
14:40say that
14:41we have not
14:42even seen
14:43a constitutional amendment.
14:44Now, if you have
14:45not seen it,
14:46then tomorrow
14:47you will be
14:48standing with
14:49the Constitution
14:50and Law
14:51and today,
14:52you see,
14:53history will
14:54never forgive them.
14:55Let me ask
14:56a question,
14:57Zubairi Sahab.
14:58I am sorry,
14:59I am cutting you
15:00short.
15:01Maulana
15:02Sahab
15:03does not have
15:04any obligation
15:05to vote
15:06or not.
15:07His party
15:08has its own
15:09right.
15:10So,
15:11it is not
15:12illegal
15:13for him
15:14to go there
15:15and vote.
15:16He has
15:17his own
15:18right
15:19to vote.
15:20He has
15:21his own
15:22right
15:23to vote.
15:24He has
15:25his own
15:26right
15:27to vote.
15:28He has
15:29his own
15:30right
15:31to vote.
15:32He has
15:33his own
15:34right
15:35to vote.
15:36He has
15:37his own
15:38right
15:39to vote.
15:40He has
15:41his own
15:42right
15:43to vote.
15:44He has
15:45his own
15:46right
15:47to vote.
15:48He has
15:49his own
15:50right
15:51to vote.
15:52He has
15:53his own
15:54right
15:55to vote.
15:56He has
15:57his own
15:58right
15:59to vote.
16:00He has
16:01his own
16:02right
16:03to vote.
16:04He has
16:05his own
16:06right
16:07to vote.
16:08He has
16:09his own
16:10right
16:11to vote.
16:12He has
16:13his own
16:14right
16:15to vote.
16:16He has
16:17his own
16:18right
16:19to vote.
16:20He has
16:21his own
16:22right
16:23to vote.
16:24He has
16:25his own
16:26right
16:27to vote.
16:28He has
16:29his own
16:30right
16:31to vote.
16:32He has
16:33his own
16:34right
16:35to vote.
16:36He has
16:37his own
16:38right
16:39to vote.
16:40He has
16:41his own
16:42right
16:43to vote.
16:44He has
16:45his own
16:46right
16:47to vote.
16:48He has
16:49his own
16:50right
16:51to vote.
16:52He has
16:53his own
16:54right
16:55to vote.
16:56He has
16:57his own
16:58right
16:59to vote.
17:00He has
17:01his own
17:02right
17:03to vote.
17:04He has
17:05his own
17:06right
17:07to vote.
17:08He has
17:09his own
17:10right
17:11to vote.
17:12He
17:13has
17:14his own
17:15right
17:16to vote.
17:17He
17:18has
17:19his own
17:20right
17:21to vote.
17:22He
17:23has
17:24his own
17:25right
17:26to vote.
17:27He
17:28has
17:29his own
17:30right
17:31to vote.
17:32He
17:33has
17:34his own
17:35right
17:36to vote.
17:37He
17:38has
17:39his own
17:40right
17:41to
17:42vote.
17:43He
17:44has
17:45his own
17:46right
17:47to
17:48vote.
17:49He
17:50has
17:51his own
17:52right
17:53to
17:54vote.
17:55He
17:56has
17:57his own
17:58right
17:59to
18:00vote.
18:01He
18:02has
18:03his own
18:04right
18:05to
18:06vote.
18:07He
18:08has
18:09his own
18:10right
18:11to
18:12vote.
18:13He
18:14has
18:15his own
18:16right
18:17to
18:18vote.
18:19He
18:20has
18:21his own
18:22right
18:23to
18:24vote.
18:25He
18:26has
18:27his own
18:28right
18:29to
18:30vote.
18:31He
18:32has
18:33his own
18:34right
18:35to
18:36vote.
18:37He
18:38has
18:39his
18:40own
18:41right
18:42to
18:43vote.
18:44He
18:45has
18:46his own
18:47right
18:48to
18:49vote.
18:50He
18:51has
18:52his own
18:53right
18:54to
18:55vote.
18:56He
18:57has
18:58his own
18:59right
19:00to
19:01vote.
19:02He
19:03has
19:04his own
19:05right
19:06to
19:07vote.
19:08He
19:09has
19:10his own
19:11right
19:12to
19:13vote.
19:14He
19:15has
19:16his own
19:17right
19:18to
19:19vote.
19:20He
19:21has
19:22his own
19:23right
19:24to
19:25vote.
19:26He
19:27has
19:28his own
19:29right
19:30to
19:31vote.
19:32He
19:33has
19:34his own
19:35right
19:36to
19:37vote.
19:38He
19:39has
19:40his own
19:41right
19:42to
19:43vote.
19:44He
19:45has
19:46his own
19:47right
19:48to
19:49vote.
19:50He
19:51has
19:52his own
19:53right
19:54to
19:55vote.
19:56He
19:57has
19:58his own
19:59right
20:00to
20:01vote.
20:02He
20:03has
20:04his own
20:05right
20:06to
20:07vote.
20:08He
20:09has
20:10his own
20:11right
20:12to
20:13vote.
20:14He
20:15has
20:16his own
20:17right
20:18to
20:19vote.
20:20He
20:21has
20:22his own
20:23right
20:24to
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25:25Despite the Supreme Court order, they will try their best to pass the amendment.
25:31Mr. Khawaja, please explain to me. I'm sorry I'm cutting you short.
25:34Please explain to me. There are a total of 336 members.
25:37There are 23 sessions that have been held at this time.
25:40There are 313 in the back, out of which 214 are with the government.
25:47With whom should we bring these 214 members?
25:50Then you will see the number game being completed.
25:52How do we fill up that gap?
26:23Maulana Fazl-ur-Rehman is saying that he is not in favor of the extension.
26:27But he wants to change the seniority principle.
26:33I think Maulana's meeting with Shahbaz Sharif has just ended.
26:40And now the PTI delegation is coming to meet him.
26:46Let's see what the results of their meetings are.
26:51If Maulana goes along with the government,
26:54then the government will say that the notification of the Election Commission has not been issued.
27:01If we forcefully get the votes of these members, then we will make a constitutional amendment.
27:06The constitutional amendment will be controversial.
27:08But the government has to make an effort to complete these numbers.
27:13Then there will be a scene in the Supreme Court.
27:17And then there will be a political situation in Pakistan.
27:21The political situation is connected to the economic situation.
27:23I don't see that happening.
27:25I don't understand.
27:27The government gives this justification.
27:29The PTI has converted the political situation into a political situation.
27:34We are still taking the economy to the right direction.
27:37The economy is going straight.
27:39How is it going to the right direction?
27:41They are giving numbers that we have reduced inflation.
27:44I think one needs to be really...
27:48What should I say?
27:50We are with the common people.
27:56You don't know what the position of the people is.
28:00People are running away from Pakistan.
28:04Your passport material is over.
28:08People are running away from here.
28:10No Pakistani is ready to invest a dollar here.
28:14This is not how the economy works.
28:16You should be thankful that the international prices have fallen.
28:20Because of which you will get some support.
28:23Otherwise, you would have gone bankrupt.
28:25Your economy is not going well.
28:27You are running on your own.
28:30The common man has gone bankrupt.
28:32This is not a debate.
28:34I have seen so many governments.
28:38I know that when the state bank governor comes and tells you that your current account deficit is over.
28:46He doesn't tell you that your imports are over.
28:49He doesn't tell you that your imports are over because your factories are closed.
28:53He doesn't tell you that your factories are closed because of which your unemployment has gone down.
28:57So don't rely on figures.
28:59When you analyze the data,
29:01you should ask the cameraman and other people sitting in front of you.
29:07They will tell you what the economy is like.
29:09I absolutely agree.
29:10There is a difference between macroeconomic indicators and microeconomic indicators.
29:14There is no trickle-down effect at this point in time.
29:16But Mr. Fawad, let's move back to the political scenario.
29:20In Islamabad, as you said, meetings are going on.
29:23The purpose of these meetings is to tell the Prime Minister that he should not go anywhere.
29:29All the people of the PMLN and the government should stay here.
29:31Talks are going on.
29:33Meetings are going on.
29:34There has been an uproar over the revision of the constitution in Islamabad at this time.
29:37But the fact remains that if the revision of the constitution is passed tomorrow,
29:45will the court accept the revision of the constitution?
29:50Will the court remain silent?
29:52I don't see any reaction to this.
29:55As of today, it has been decided that the majority of judges in the Supreme Court will not go with the constitutional amendment.
30:07We don't know what the amendment is.
30:12There are three things going on.
30:14One is that all judges should be given a three-year extension.
30:18So that Mr. Faiz Isa gets three more years.
30:21The second thing is that this extension should not be given.
30:24And the judges should be removed from the seniority principle.
30:29And the Chief Justice should be made out of five judges.
30:31A third proposal is going on.
30:33I have read the statement of the law minister.
30:36He is saying that we have to make a new constitutional court.
30:39This new constitutional court was the concept of the state of jurists.
30:44Imam Khamenei brought it to Iran.
30:46And now there is a collegium in Iran that makes all the decisions.
30:51There is no power of the parliament or the president.
30:54It is a collegium of 8-10 people that makes the decisions.
30:58If you make this court, it means that the parliament in Pakistan is over.
31:02There is no solution to it.
31:047-8 people will sit together and make all the decisions.
31:07They will tell what is the constitution and what is not.
31:11Your parliament is completely over.
31:14The first two cases are not acceptable to the Supreme Court.
31:18The judges of the Supreme Court have clearly said that Mr. Faiz Isa will have to go.
31:23Not only in the Supreme Court, but also in the High Court.
31:25That is why when I spoke to you in the beginning,
31:28I did not understand the establishment and the government's policy of keeping Mr. Faiz Isa.
31:33When such a large number of judges of the High Court and two-thirds of judges of the Supreme Court
31:39have clearly told you that the current Chief Justice will have to go.
31:44If you keep them, what benefit will you get from it?
31:47What is the need for you to fight with the Supreme Court?
31:51But their argument is that political motivation should not be in the court.
31:57Obviously, we cannot cross that red line.
31:59But both sides put allegations on their own judges that they are politically motivated.
32:06That is why the matter cannot move forward.
32:08That is why it is necessary to amend it.
32:10But this is a rhetoric.
32:13You tell me that if you do not go on political rhetoric and go on substantive law,
32:21it is a simple thing.
32:22This is the moral obligation of the government because it does not exist.
32:27And they only have a reliance on a stick, a stick, a gun to keep themselves stable.
32:34The problem with such governments is that when a little fear starts to go down,
32:41they fall on their own.
32:42Now you have seen that the Jalsa took place in Islamabad.
32:45And just like the protest was demonstrated there,
32:4810 MNs were arrested from within the parliament.
32:53So the problem here is that the judges have no sympathy for the PTI.
32:58And whoever knows these judges in the Supreme Court,
33:03they know that they have no sympathy for the PTI.
33:07They are independent judges and have the best legal minds in Pakistan.
33:11There is no doubt about it.
33:13The problem with this government is that they do not even want neutral judges.
33:17So this is unfortunately the reality that the government needs very biased
33:22and judges who can write their own prosecution.
33:27Independent judiciary.
33:28And what is the problem in Pakistan right now?
33:30The last point, sir, with your permission.
33:32The core problem of Pakistan right now is that we want to run the martial law and democracy together.
33:39See, this is not possible.
33:41You want to keep the tag of democracy.
33:44You want to run the martial law.
33:46Wasn't it like this in 2018?
33:48Because the whole government is answering this question.
33:51See, this hybrid system was there in the time of Imran Khan.
33:56So now they are taking it.
33:58Although two wrongs cannot make a right,
34:00but the government always gives the same answer.
34:02No, no, this is a trivial matter.
34:04This is a child's play.
34:06There has been a hybrid regime in Pakistan for 72 years.
34:10Sometimes the role of the establishment is a little more,
34:13sometimes a little less.
34:15But we have been a security state for 75-76 years.
34:18We were part of the Western bloc.
34:20We were fighting wars here.
34:22Obviously, the role of the army had to be there.
34:24But what is happening in 2024,
34:27this exact situation that we have just started from 2022,
34:32it has never been in Pakistan before.
34:35After this, what have you done?
34:39This is the problem.
34:41You have made such a person the Prime Minister,
34:43who has 18 seats.
34:45You see, Zardari and Shabaz Sharif can be the President and the Prime Minister
34:49if there is a little bit of democracy in the country.
34:53These questions obviously come from the PGI.
34:56But explain this to me at this time.
34:58Because now it is not just a matter of constitutional amendment.
35:00Where does the PGI come from, Anika?
35:02This happened in front of the whole of Pakistan.
35:04This is not an issue of the PGI.
35:06I understand what you are saying.
35:07But on the one hand, it is a matter of constitutional amendment.
35:09On the other hand, let me give you another piece of news.
35:11Article 63A is also being thought to be amended.
35:17Where can this lead?
35:21You will finish the floor crossing and go.
35:24But that will happen when the Supreme Court decides
35:28that you cannot vote against the party line.
35:32Then you will have to finish that too.
35:34And they will go to Article 63A.
35:36These are things to be discussed later.
35:38The most important thing at this time is
35:40whether the Supreme Court's direction on the Election Commission
35:44is followed or not.
35:47And what will not happen.
35:49And as a result, the confrontation between the Supreme Court
35:52and the Government and the Election Commission will increase.
35:55And as a result, we will see more political turmoil in Pakistan.
36:00Who can diffuse this turmoil, Mr. Fawad Chaudhary?
36:04Can the ICP do it?
36:06The government will not want their authority to be somehow
36:10hidden and Pakistan will go towards justice.
36:13So at this time, who can diffuse this situation?
36:17Diffuse is a big political issue in Pakistan.
36:20It is obvious that when you do not become the Prime Minister
36:24in a legal and ethical way,
36:27then the system is based on illegitimacy.
36:32The system is based on illegitimacy.
36:36The establishment has to decide this.
36:39They have to stabilize the country politically.
36:43Why don't the politicians decide this, Mr. Fawad Chaudhary?
36:46Why don't the politicians sit together?
36:48Why does everyone look at the establishment again and again?
36:51Why does the Pakistani Judiciary look at the establishment again and again?
36:54The politicians should sit and decide.
36:56They should not give space. No one will take space.
36:59You tell me, if the politicians decide today
37:04that they want to take action on the arrests in the parliament,
37:10what do you think? Will the speakers take action?
37:13You are talking about something very interesting and important.
37:16Our politicians are completely useless.
37:19Then what is the point of sitting in the parliament?
37:21Of course.
37:22Then don't give food and show off.
37:26This is the struggle.
37:28This is the struggle in Pakistan.
37:30The civil rule should be abolished.
37:34This is the struggle.
37:35The constitution should be abolished.
37:37Rights should be abolished.
37:38Why are you talking about the opposition?
37:40Everyone is in the opposition.
37:42Everyone is in the government.
37:44Everyone is against this struggle.
37:46Why?
37:47My opinion is that the current situation cannot be compared to the past in Pakistan.
37:56There have been situations in the past.
37:59It is true that PM LN has fought for this.
38:03PM Musharraf has fought for this.
38:08People's Party has a history of this struggle.
38:11Unfortunately, Bilawal Bhutto is standing against his grandfather's constitution.
38:20His speech today was shameless.
38:22Similarly, Nawaz Sharif's silence today,
38:25what is it doing?
38:27It is putting water on the struggle of the past to give respect to the vote.
38:32Politicians need to understand this.
38:35I agree with you.
38:37But the fact is that the power is in the hands of the establishment.
38:42They have to make this decision.
38:44Ultimately, the power shifts.
38:48It doesn't always stay in one place.
38:50It also shifts.
38:52The Supreme Court was very powerful at one time.
38:55It was even more powerful than the army.
38:57But the establishment has the power now.
39:00They have to decide whether to use it to bring stability in Pakistan
39:05or to create more political turmoil in Pakistan.
39:08Sir, we are talking about the establishment.
39:10This will be decided next week.
39:12The defence minister said something about the Pakistan Tariq-e-Ansar tweet.
39:16Let's listen to what he had to say about the establishment and their wishes.
39:20The tweet that came today,
39:23it evokes the atmosphere that you have tried to develop.
39:32All the language that was spoken at the Jalsa was the language of the individual.
39:39If the establishment had sent a message to cancel the Jalsa,
39:43it would have taken less than five minutes for the Jalsas to open.
39:46The Jalsas have been cancelled.
39:48And today they are tweeting against them.
39:50We don't even know if they will start begging tomorrow.
39:55Mr. Fawad, this is the biggest problem.
39:57On one hand, the statement is different.
40:00And on the other hand, the wishes are different.
40:03And there are thousands of such wishes.
40:05I don't understand what the issue is.
40:09For example, you are saying that we should not talk to the centre of power in Pakistan.
40:16Then who should we talk to?
40:18What will we achieve by doing this?
40:20I don't understand this.
40:21What will we achieve by doing this?
40:23I agree with you.
40:26We should talk to those who have to decide.
40:31I am in favor of grand political dialogue.
40:33I want political parties and the establishment to come together
40:37and come up with a scheme.
40:39We should lower the temperature and try to stabilize the country politically.
40:47I have been talking about this in your program.
40:50But the establishment has to take action.
40:53Imran Khan is in jail.
40:55What will the PTI do?
40:58They will say what they have to do.
41:01Until the establishment does not take action,
41:04until Imran Khan does not decide on cooperation and inclusion,
41:07what will happen?
41:09I think the PTI has gone back in this scenario.
41:14Now it is judiciary versus government.
41:17This can be very dangerous, Mr. Fawad.
41:19This can be extremely dangerous.
41:21It is very dangerous.
41:23Judiciary has not lived up to its time.
41:28They are here for their honor.
41:30They are here for their honor and respect.
41:34Just like Attorney General went to Muneeb Akhtar yesterday
41:38and the whole thing started from there.
41:41When Attorney General went to Justice Muneeb Akhtar,
41:45who is a respected judge,
41:47and he is a kid.
41:49He is too young.
41:51I am surprised that Attorney General
41:53misbehaved with such a big judge in front of everyone.
41:58After that, it was necessary to mind the judges of the Supreme Court.
42:02So this situation, at any point in time,
42:07we do not see a calm down.
42:09The confrontation between the judiciary and the government will continue.
42:12Let's see what news we get about the Yahini Tarmeem tomorrow.
42:17Thank you very much, Mr. Fawad Chaudhary, for joining me in The Probe.
42:19We will come back after the break.
42:20Then we will continue with our program.
42:22We will talk about what is happening in Gaza.
42:24See you after the break.
42:29Welcome back after the break.
42:30We are playing politics here.
42:32On the other hand, bloodshed is still going on in Gaza.
42:34Barbarism by Israel is still going on.
42:37According to Euromed,
42:39by the end of August,
42:41about 50,000 Palestinians were martyred.
42:45This is a very safe figure.
42:46This is a safe figure because
42:48in the last 15 days,
42:50dozens of Palestinians have been martyred every day.
42:55In the latest news,
42:573 hours ago,
43:0011 people, including 4 children, were martyred.
43:05About 33% of the martyrs are children
43:09and 21% are women.
43:11The war is being supported by human rights activists.
43:16In that war, children and women are being targeted.
43:21Not only women and children.
43:23The journalists who tell the story of Gaza
43:27are also being targeted.
43:30So far, 172 journalists have been martyred.
43:34Civil defense workers,
43:36who have to evacuate people from Malba,
43:38who have to take them to hospitals,
43:40are also being targeted.
43:43We have 76 figures.
43:45But unofficial sources tell us that
43:48this figure is much higher.
43:50Healthcare professionals,
43:52who have to take care of the injured
43:54and take care of the amputees,
43:57basically health workers,
43:591240 health workers have been martyred.
44:03The infrastructure has been completely destroyed.
44:06We have to raise our voice against this.
44:08We cannot remain silent.
44:10No matter what is happening in your life.
44:12This has been going on for almost a year.
44:15We cannot stay silent on that.
44:17I am Anika Nisar.
44:18Take care.
44:19Allah Hafiz.