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00:00Ilmari from Finland. Pranam Acharyaji. There has been a lot of talk on veganism in the
00:20MAG group lately. I have also watched many of your videos relating to this topic. I would
00:27like to know your take on teaching veganism to children. I know that veganism has to be
00:34a thing of the heart and that just forcing dry ideology isn't good for anyone. As a vegan
00:41parent, I am not concerned about my ability to show compassion, but rather about the choices
00:47I sometimes have to make for the sake of my daughter's physical well-being. She is very
00:53choosy towards vegan protein sources and that's why we sometimes have to buy dairy products for
00:58her. Every time I have to do that, I feel bad. So there is this conflict between my responsibility
01:06to provide her with a nutritionally balanced diet and with my heartfelt refusal to take part
01:11in the exploitation of other living beings. I wonder if there is any right or wrong in this.
01:16Thank you for your guidance, Ilmari.
01:24Ilmari, we are
01:33neither
01:34prakritic beings, nor do we live in truth fully.
01:46If you look at birds and animals in the jungle, they live totally by prakriti.
01:54If you look at saints, they live totally by the heart.
02:03In the industrialized world, man lives neither as a prakritic being and nor as a being of truth.
02:14We live by the mind. We live by the intellect.
02:32The intellect has created all these problems that we are facing.
02:40Veganism is a response to the problems created by intellect.
02:55We don't have to teach veganism to animals, neither do we have to teach veganism to saints.
03:03Animals don't need veganism. Saints too don't need veganism.
03:10Man in this modern, post-modern world needs veganism. The man who is
03:23a creation of his intellect needs this veganism. If you look at man today,
03:31he is neither a creation of the jungle, nor is he a creation of God. He is a creation of his own mind.
03:46Majorly. If you look at him very closely, then you will realize he is similar to the ones who
03:52live in the jungle. And you will have to look at a million human beings to come across a few
04:00who will make you realize that man probably came from God. If you look at the bulk of human beings
04:15from a distance, you will neither feel that they come from jungle nor would you feel that they come
04:23from God. Man comes neither from jungle nor from God. Today's man comes from the factory.
04:32We are products of our intellect. We are products of the human factory.
04:40And our problems, I said, two are problems arising from the human intellect. But that
04:46has become our center. We will operate from our center, won't we? Intellect is the center
04:53of today's man. If that be so, why not use the same intellect in a godly way?
05:09If intellect is what we are identified with, why not surrender this same intellect to the service of God?
05:23Why not, for example, use the intellect to create
05:37sources of vitamin B12 and proteins
05:44and many other vitamins and minerals
05:46that are not exploitative towards animals?
06:03If you say that you must provide your daughter
06:10with a protein-rich diet, why does the protein have to come from dairy?
06:17When everything in your life is anyway factory-produced,
06:23why not use factory-produced protein as well?
06:28People say, oh, but that would be unnatural.
06:32Hello, if you want to be fully natural, then live on the trees.
06:38Is it natural to live in houses? Is it natural to wear clothes? Is it natural to go to schools?
06:46By nature, you mean prakriti, right? Do all these things happen in the jungle?
06:50But when you live in the house, then you do not say, oh, it is unnatural.
06:59When you live in the house, do you say it is unnatural? I will not do it.
07:06Now, man has come out of the jungle. He is anyway no more prakritic.
07:13His center is not prakriti, neither is his center atma. His center is buddhi.
07:22It's a very strange situation that man is in.
07:27What is the center of an animal? What is the center of the saint?
07:32What is the center of today's man? So, use the same buddhi in the service of truth.
07:43Now, you live in an industrialized, heavily industrialized western country,
07:49Ilmari. How is it not possible to have artificial sources of vitamin C, D, A, B, B12? How is it not
08:05possible to manufacture proteins just as you manufacture everything else? Why is it necessary
08:11that the protein molecule must come from an animal's body?
08:18Why is it necessary? On one hand, we pride ourselves in factory producing everything.
08:31Can't we factory produce protein? Must you kill to have protein?
08:42Some people even say veganism is unnatural and their biggest argument is vitamin B12.
08:48They say this vitamin can come only from an animal source and human body requires this.
08:57So, this is the proof that veganism is unnatural. They mean a prakritic. I agree,
09:05veganism is not prakritic, but then why must it be prakritic? Is man prakritic anymore?
09:12If you want to be prakritic, then I say go back and live in the jungle. You have come out of the
09:19jungle. Is marriage prakritic? Are there marriages in the jungle? So, marriage is the first thing
09:24that is unnatural. Is language prakritic? Are there languages in the jungle? Are there clothes
09:33in the jungle? Are there countries in the jungle? Are there constitutions in the jungle? Are there
09:39vehicles in the jungle? But then to all these things, you do not say, oh these are unnatural.
09:44To all these things, you are happily amenable.
09:50But the moment it is discovered that vitamin B12 cannot be found
09:55except in an animal source, you rejoice and say, you see, now veganism is ticked off
10:09because it is proven that veganism is unnatural. Yes, of course, veganism is unnatural.
10:17And just as you choose so many things that are unnatural, choose veganism as well.
10:25Do not choose it because it is natural. Do not choose it because it is coming from compassion.
10:42Do not choose it because of prakriti. Choose it because of karuna. And these are two very,
10:50very different arguments. There are the naturalists who say that you should choose
10:55what is there in prakriti. I strongly deny that. I am not a naturalist. I do not say that you
11:02should live as prakriti lives. In prakriti, all creatures or rather most creatures except the
11:09nocturnal ones sleep at night. I conduct my sessions after midnight. Am I prakritic? Am I?
11:23So, I am not at all a supporter of prakriti. In fact, all spirituality
11:28is about transcending prakriti. So, I am not a naturalist.
11:32I stand for transcendence of physical nature which you call as prakriti.
11:36But in transcending prakriti, I do not want to stop at buddhi or intellect. In transcending prakriti,
11:46I want to reach the atma or truth where compassion resides. Get the difference, please.
11:53Usually people think that spirituality and naturalism go together. They think, you know,
12:01they think if you are a spiritual man, then you would love fruits and all kinds of animal products
12:13and these two often are seen together. The moment a person picks up some spiritual text,
12:24he also starts eating more raw food. It is often a combination.
12:31It is seen that spiritual people go to the jungles.
12:42So, somehow a correlation has been established in the mind that spirituality
12:47and prakriti go together. No, wrong. Spirituality is transcendence of prakriti
12:55and when you transcend prakriti, then you can really love prakriti.
12:59It is a thing that you have to appreciate. Those who do not transcend prakriti remain attached
13:06with prakriti and if you remain attached with prakriti, you will consume prakriti. For example,
13:12if you remain attached to your own body, then you will kill somebody's body to feed your own body.
13:18If you are attached to prakriti, you will rape prakriti. But the saint goes beyond prakriti,
13:26from there he can just lovingly witness and watch prakriti.
13:32Then he doesn't interfere with prakriti or consume it or rape it. Are you getting it?
13:41In fact, a lot of damage to prakriti is being brought about by prakriti lovers as well.
13:47So, they would say, you know, we require a particular type of fruit.
13:55Now, for that type of fruit to be grown, all other species of trees are being cut off.
14:08If you are standing at the intellect ilmari, as you are, use the intellect.
14:17Find out where in the world, from where in the world can you get
14:31all nutrients that are not animal sourced.
14:39Let industries come up.
14:49If it is required that artificial meat be made in order to satisfy people
14:56who necessarily want to have meat, I am all in favor of
15:01more technological research to produce more artificial meat that closely resembles animal meat.
15:13This is compassion because this is going to save billions of animals every day.
15:19Let technological prowess be used to produce artificial meat because the fellow is now
15:26addicted to meat. He will eat meat and if you will not give him artificial meat,
15:31he will slaughter the animal. So, use intellect.
15:41Use research, use technology. What is all your scientific knowledge for?
15:45You can't even produce a protein molecule in the factory.
15:51And then we sing so much about man's scientific advancements.
15:57Are you getting it? Man cannot go back to the jungle.
16:08So, even if you want to protect the jungle now, intellect is the answer.
16:18Man can neither go back to the jungle nor can man give up the intellect.
16:24But the jungle has to be protected. So, the intellect is the answer. Use the mind.
16:31Use the mind in service to the truth.
16:38If intellect is what you have, devote the intellect to the service of the truth,
16:48to the service of compassion.