• last year
In this week's episode of The Art of Beauty, host Amanda Imani sits down with Malaysian model and founder of the Vitiligo Association Malaysia, Sonya Danita Charles.
Transcript
00:00I'm so tired of this. I'm tired of feeling this way. I'm tired of allowing other people who mean
00:06absolutely nothing to me. Strangers. Yeah strangers make me feel this way.
00:15Hi everyone welcome back to season four episode nine of Art of Beauty with me Amanda Imani and
00:21today I have an extremely special guest and a very good friend of mine Sonia everybody. We
00:27have Sonia in the house. Thank you so much Sonia for coming. Thank you for having me. You look
00:32wonderful as always. Thank you. Early put together. She's always just a ray of sunshine. It's so nice
00:38seeing you again. Yes. So for people who maybe are just watching maybe you could tell us a little bit
00:43about yourself and what you do. All right so my name is Sonia. I'm a model, a marketer and also
00:50the founder of Vitiligo Association Malaysia. Yes and I'm sure a lot of people are also wondering
00:57what is vitiligo. Maybe you could share a little bit about you know what vitiligo is and your
01:04experience with vitiligo. So basically vitiligo is a autoimmune skin disorder whereby our skin
01:13cells loses its pigmentation. So it can happen to anybody at any age. So some people have it when
01:20they're 60s you know because as they get older their immune system is a lot weaker as well right.
01:25So they tend to lose their pigmentation because of it. But it can also happen to people from as
01:30young as eight years old. Like for instance I started my vitiligo started when I was eight
01:35years old. So it varies based on each individual. So ideally in simpler terms there's a more scientific
01:43term to it. But in simpler terms it's basically where our immune system is attacking our skin
01:50cells thinking it's a virus when it's actually not. And that causes us to lose our pigmentation.
01:56I see okay. And when you were younger how did you realize you had this autoimmune disorder?
02:03So when we first went to the doctor they did tell us that it was vitiligo. But of course when I was
02:09younger it was not as prominent. It only started spreading even more when I went into my teen years.
02:16So I would say when I was 13 years old that was the peak of it because my skin was just constantly
02:21changing. And also because I was on a lot of different medications because we were trying a
02:27lot of different treatments. So it was just constantly changing from losing pigmentation
02:32to gaining pigmentation. And this was a lot because like I said it was a lot of different
02:37treatments that I went through which had a lot of different side effects. And then on top of that I
02:41had to deal with you know being a teenager your body is changing. You know you get your period
02:47and you know you grow boobs and things like that right. And then on top of that I had to constantly
02:52deal with all the side effects from the medications that I was taking. And on top of that how my skin
02:58was constantly changing as well. So that was definitely a challenge in my younger years.
03:03So vitiligo I guess for people who don't really get it like it's a constant change and does it
03:08change throughout your life from you know when you're a young adult. Oh it can change every day.
03:15So like mine I'm always you know I'm always impressed with how it's constantly changing. So
03:22if you look back at pictures of me from a year ago let's say this date exactly a year ago it
03:28will look completely different. Really? Yes it's always changing. Yeah it's like I always like to
03:34tell people I'm like a chameleon. I'm constantly changing because my spots are constantly changing.
03:39I either gain spots or I gain lose my spots. Yeah so it's always changing you know on my face on my
03:47hands basically anywhere that I have it. So I always like to do a comparison because even if I
03:52look at a picture for me from a month ago there's probably a new spot that I gained or I lost.
03:59Yeah so it's one of those things that's just like constantly evolving. Yeah okay and so vitiligo
04:07like how does that I mean the autoimmune disease is it genetic or is it environmental? So it is not
04:12genetic there's actually also no cure for it it's just one of those things that it affects one
04:19percent of the world's population so we are but it's very rare but it can happen to people of any
04:27age any ethnicity you know at any point of time it just really varies depending on your body.
04:34And I guess with all the treatments that you've tried in your teens
04:40has that maybe helped in a way of like you know reducing or slowing down? So there were a few I
04:47tried that did not really help you know I was vegetarian for two years which was the longest
04:52two years of my life because if you know people who know me knows that I'm not a big fan of
04:57vegetables. But you know I'm very selective about what vegetables I eat right so I had to be
05:02vegetarian for two years because according to. Strictly vegetarian? Yes strictly vegetarian
05:06because according to the doctor it was meat that was making it worse and whatnot which
05:11was completely not true apparently because it did not make any change whatsoever but I was on
05:18one treatment that actually helped me regain my pigment up to 90 percent so I was about 90 percent
05:25back to my actual color already but what we didn't realize was because the doctor was actually
05:31administrating me with steroids without us knowing oh yes so that's what actually helped the
05:39pigmentation but what it was doing was it was also affecting my liver and my kidneys which we
05:45found out later on so the moment I stopped that medication I actually lost all my pigmentation
05:50again so the steroids was helping to re-pigment but it was one of those things where you have to
05:56keep taking it for the rest of your life because the moment you stop you lose all your pigmentation
06:01and of course you know steroids is never good for your body you know whatever purpose you use it for
06:08and to be using it for a very long period of time it will take a toll yes it does have negative
06:14effects on your body yeah and um like with vitiligo right it's is it just on the skin it's a
06:20superficial autoimmune disease like it doesn't really affect your health in any way your general
06:25health no no you're you're it's actually just your skin yeah it's just how it looks like how you take
06:30care of your body is completely up to you but it's basically just your skin yeah okay so because
06:36today's topic is really interesting we're going to be talking all about inner strength and
06:39confidence which I'm sure Sonia has a lot of so I just want to ask you so you did mention earlier a
06:46little bit that you also you know you're a balanced person you are you would say that you
06:51eat quite healthy I mean obviously you look very healthy I have to say she's a model she's
06:57perfect and she's tall guy she is tall but um what are some of the things that you do to maintain
07:03maybe your your inner health that you do it you know in your everyday life so for me what I like
07:09to do is honestly I would like to also kind of put it out there that I'm not the most healthiest
07:15person you know I do like my fair share of junk food you know like McDonald's is my I love
07:24yes I love sweets and chocolates and all that but of course I also try to balance my meals so you
07:31know if there are certain days where my body is craving something like I crave a lot of sweets
07:38I will allow my body to have that for that particular day you know especially when I'm
07:43having my menses and whatnot because you know we're on our periods we have all kinds of cravings
07:48and of course you know and I feel like it's very important to to also understand that it's okay to
07:53give your body that but in moderation right it's all about balance yes it's all about balance so
07:58every other day you know I eat basically whatever I feel like eating I have rice I have noodles you
08:05know lots of chicken vegetables that I do like I will incorporate that into my meals as well
08:11but like I said it's all a very very big balance for me it's not something where I limit myself
08:17from eating anything that I want you know it's more of okay this is what I'm feeling today so
08:23I will have this today yeah and also I guess that's also more sustainable yes for a lot of
08:29people correct because a lot of people always like want to do something and they jump like
08:33yeah at first and they change their whole diet and also not only that eating clean in Malaysia
08:38is very expensive yeah it is very expensive but there are things that you can do at home that is
08:42still clean you know for instance if you make chicken you can always do baked chicken with
08:47baked potatoes yeah you know you've got the proteins from that you've got enough nutrients
08:52that you need and then after that if you feel something sweet then treat yourself to that bar
08:56of chocolate you know yeah I mean that is the whole idea of that basically to have that balance
09:01and you know still give in to some of your cravings yes have that occasional cheat day but
09:06you know if you do have that then you know balancing I know it's it's funny because
09:11whenever people look at me they always assume I don't eat right because because of my size yeah
09:16but I'm actually just blessed that you know it's very you're so lucky yeah I know I'm blessed in
09:21the sense whereby you know I can maintain my my my weight in the way it is I can maintain my body
09:28but it does not mean that I take it for granted as well you know I don't abuse it in any way you
09:33know I don't overdo it in terms of what I eat and what I drink I try to remain balanced you know if
09:40I have a healthy breakfast and a healthy lunch then maybe dinner I'll treat myself to something
09:45slightly unhealthy yeah yeah I mean I do like that mentality because a lot of people I speak
09:50to are like no like I you know if I'm strict I'm strict but then they're they're kind of
09:54it's polarizing yes correct but then you're not enjoying your life exactly every time I see food
10:00it's like I can't I have to control myself I guess I understand the concept of you know wanting to
10:06like for those who want to lose weight and things like that they want to be very strict with their
10:10diet but I feel like you should also allow yourself to have that that cheat meal yeah you know because
10:17it's you only get one chance at this lifetime why do you want to suffer you know enjoy the
10:23wonderful food that we have out there you know for sure just give your body what it feels like
10:28it needs at that point of time yeah and food plays such an important role in your overall mood correct
10:34your health your mood and your outlook in life right so just like today's topic like inner strength
10:41like do you we know that food you know um it plays a big role but do you think things like
10:47fitness mental health even yes a big role in a person's overall well-being yeah are there any
10:53fitness things I guess you do like maybe pilates or you go so for me I like doing yoga and I
11:01actually prefer working out at the gym because I feel like I'm more motivated when I work out at
11:06the gym compared to working out at home I feel like it's just that because you know when you're
11:10at that gym you're already thinking about okay I'm already paying for this and I'm already here
11:15you know so I might as well do it but when I'm at home I'm like oh my bed is over there my sofa is
11:21exactly me my Nutella biscuits are over there you know you end up doing like 15 minutes exactly
11:27there's so much distractions around right but going back to your question mental health also
11:33plays a very big part in it because you can be someone who works out and eats healthy and all
11:39that but if your mental health is not in a great place it's it's pointless you know because you're
11:45you're not going to be as motivated or you're not going to be as enthusiastic about the activities
11:51that you're doing or the workouts that you're doing you know so I always say find something
11:56that you enjoy doing just because someone else tells you oh you need to do more cardio if you
12:01don't necessarily like cardio then find a different exercise that incorporates cardio in it you know
12:07for instance some people don't like running right me yeah they don't like running but then
12:13there are things that involve a lot of cardio like pilates yoga kickboxing that I enjoy exactly
12:20for whatever reason it just seems like the time passes by fast correct like when I'm running on
12:24the treadmill I'm just like oh my god it's three minutes yes there's so many ways to find you know
12:30there's so many different exercises that's out there that you can do and what it is is just
12:35finding something that works best for you you know you don't necessarily have to do what everybody
12:39else is doing find a routine that works for you even if it's just going for walks in the evening
12:45for 30 minutes a time yeah I find that to be like yeah you know walking can even be something you do
12:51in a mall you know just walk around the whole mall yeah yeah at least you're walking at least
12:55you're walking yeah you're stimulating your body you're getting your steps in correct so you're
13:00still walking you're still doing a form of cardio yeah but you're doing it in an environment that
13:05makes you happy you know yeah that's a really good point actually yeah people don't see it that way
13:11because it's like okay if you think about it going to the park going to malls you know these are all
13:16involving cardio as well involving walking so why not walk from one end to the other
13:24the biggest mall you can find and just walk the whole mall that's true I should do that
13:29um because I did like speak to another person on this show and she was saying like there was a
13:34pressure put on her because she she's um how do I say this she's very fitness um driven okay a lot
13:40of her content is all about like working out like yeah counter proteins like yeah she lifts and all
13:46these things and I think over a period of time like she felt like she was doing all these things
13:51and she looked great on the outside but she didn't feel she didn't feel great and she felt like
13:55why am I doing this like am I doing this to actually like you know please other people
14:00and prove a point but what was the point like because she was at the end of the day when she
14:03came home she didn't feel accomplished and she just felt sad even though she on the outside
14:08she looked great perfect like fit like you know at her peak and that's why I said it and your mental
14:13health comes into play over there because you're doing things just to please other people but at
14:19the same time you're you're you're not honoring what your body actually wants what your body
14:24actually needs you know what you want what you need yeah and and that's really sad you know you
14:29shouldn't have to do that I feel like everything is a balance you know do it for you not for
14:35anybody else yes you can be a fitness guru and whatnot but you can also show people that okay
14:41yes I work out this many times a week but here's what my cheat meals are for the week as well you
14:47know because on this particular day I just felt like having McDonald's so I'm gonna have that
14:52McDonald's and also and not feel bad about it that makes you also more relatable correct because
14:56you're not a robot and you you know you at the end of the day you're still human you're still
15:00person and you still have all these things that you suddenly feel like you want to do or want to
15:04eat yeah yeah yeah but yeah definitely mental health plays a huge role but what was it like for
15:09you like you know growing up with vitiligo for example what was your mentality has it changed
15:17you know throughout your life or were you always accepting of it or no honestly I was not when I
15:22was younger it was especially hard because you know I was bullied a lot yes you know I realized
15:29that kids can be really mean when they want to you know but this also comes down to awareness
15:36and education because everything starts at home for instance I grew up in a home whereby my parents
15:42have never made me feel any different you know my family never made me feel any different and
15:46in fact when we saw somebody who's different we still loved and accept them exactly the way they
15:51are yeah so this is the education that my parents instilled in us from a very young age at home but
15:57then there are people out there who do not teach their kids that you know and then their kids grow
16:03up to be really really horrible people because they're not instilling that values and principles
16:08in them I'll give you an example that was once when I was younger I was at a mall and you know
16:13I was kind of just doing my own thing I was grocery shopping right and this kid came close to
16:19me and the parent saw their kid come close to me and you know she immediately pulled her kid away
16:24and said oh don't go near her otherwise you'll have what she has you know oh don't touch her
16:29because you know you'll get what she has right so you see that's the value and lesson that they are
16:35instilling in their kids they're teaching their kids that oh if there's somebody who looks different
16:40and if you go near that person you're gonna have what that person has which is the completely it's
16:45a completely wrong approach you know if kids don't grow up knowing how to be bullies they do not grow
16:51up they they are not born with you know anger in them and stereotypes and racism and all that it's
16:59all things that they see at home it's what their parents teach them it's what their teachers teach
17:04them you know everything starts at home right yeah so growing up it really was a struggle for
17:10me because you know firstly there was no representation of people who looked like me
17:14especially not in the media or beauty industry you know or in my country for instance you know
17:20I barely saw anyone who looked like me who had my skin condition so that made it especially hard
17:25and then having to deal with people's thoughts and perceptions about my skin condition or having
17:31to deal with people coming up to me and saying the most ridiculous things you know like you know
17:37making comments about my skin and whatnot right it was really really hard especially when I was
17:42younger because yeah I felt like I basically felt like an alien you know I felt like an outcast I
17:47felt like I didn't belong and it was so hard and it was such a struggle that you know I
17:55I was depressed for such a long time I hated going out you know when I was younger I never wore skirts
18:00shorts I always wore long long sleeve pants tops and you know jeans and whatnot to cover everything
18:10given my face was exactly like this you know I never covered it with makeup but I felt like
18:14anywhere else I could cover I would because I just wanted to not have to deal with people
18:21staring at me and looking at me and whatnot you know but eventually it came to a point you know
18:27when I was 17 years old I kind of told myself you know I'm so tired of this I'm tired of feeling
18:32this way I'm tired of allowing other people who mean absolutely nothing to me yeah strangers
18:39make me feel this way you know and I decided okay the only way this is going to change is if I change
18:45how I look at myself how I perceive my life you know so I started by you know working on my
18:51confidence slowly by slowly I started learning to you know wear more shorts you know dress
18:57embracing it yeah it might not seem like much to to any other person out there but to someone like
19:03me it meant a lot you know because you go from just this one visible point to everything is visible
19:10already you know and so I started doing things like that I started stepping out of my own bubble
19:15you know doing things that I actually enjoy you know going out spending time with friends and
19:21whatnot and eventually I just kind of learned to build this really thick skin mentality whereby now
19:29whatever people say does not affect me you know if if a person came up to me and said something
19:36really mean about my skin now it wouldn't affect me as much in comparison to when I was a teenager
19:42yeah but it also took a lot of years to be who I am today it took a lot of effort you know it took
19:50a lot of inner work you know building my mental strength my emotional strength everything basically
19:57to come to terms with understanding that you know what we're all made uniquely for a reason
20:02everybody is made differently for a reason we're all put in this world for a purpose yeah and it's
20:08just a matter of finding out what that purpose is and living your purpose and for me I can
20:13confidently say that you know what at this point of time if anything were to happen to me you know
20:18knock on wood right at least on my last days of my dying breath I can look back at my life and say
20:26you know what I actually lived my purpose yeah I made a difference yeah I did what I wanted to do
20:31in my life I lived my life the way I wanted to live yeah and that's all that matters to me because
20:36I don't care how many people like me or how many people don't like me at the end of the day it's
20:41I like me you know I like who I see in the mirror and that's all that matters yeah that's really
20:47well said Sonia I mean wow that is very inspirational so I think for people watching
20:51you know who are going through something similar it may not be an autoimmune disease it could just
20:56be you know body dysmorphia it could be something that they're dealing with that they don't want to
21:01see they don't want to see themselves for who they are in the mirror or they maybe cannot accept
21:06themselves for the way they look or feel or whatever reason and so I think that's why you've
21:10been such an inspiration for so many people and even for me like every time I see you're always
21:15so happy and outgoing and I think you know how you feel really you know is portrayed by how you
21:21carry yourself and I really have to commend you on thank you know your confidence and also just
21:27your positivity that radiates in every single room that you walk in thank you so yeah I mean
21:34again going on on and on the whole like aspect of like mental health and um I guess just like
21:43growing up in in such a world you think that like maybe schools and stuff like we don't really have
21:48any sort of awareness programs for kids right what do you think can be done that you know that can
21:57maybe better you know for kids who are learning growing up to be more I know we have social media
22:03now you have people like you talking and making you know it more of a norm and talking about you
22:10know and giving it more awareness but what do you think maybe like the education system
22:14or um you know maybe there are programs that people can go to not just about vitiligo but any
22:21other sort of you know autoimmune disease or disorders and things like that what do you think
22:27that maybe you know we can do as a community I feel like with schools right so they have
22:32you know panditikan moral right and that's where they teach you about values and principles and
22:38whatnot right so they they should also implement actually implement that when they see kids being
22:45mean to other kids or bullying other kids like the problem I had or I feel like still goes on in
22:51schools now is that when kids are being bullied the teachers don't say anything about it they don't
22:57correct these kids who are the bullies you know they don't teach them no this is not the right
23:02way to do it yeah you know so to have you should I feel like okay maybe they can do something along
23:08the lines of having more more public speaking initiatives in their school there are so many
23:17people out there who who are so inspirational who I'm sure would be more than willing to go to
23:23schools and give talks and things like this you know incorporate that into your curriculum do it
23:28once a month or three times a year you know get people from different walks of life to come and
23:33share their stories and and you know to educate these kids and on top of that ensure that whatever
23:40you're teaching in the classroom is also something positive that these kids can take home you know so
23:46when you see a kid being bullied stand up for that kid yeah you know yeah and they teach them in
23:53Malaysia there's so many bullying cases exactly and nobody does anything about it and I'm like
23:57it's 2024 like all right you know and all these things are only documented through social media
24:03like someone actually filming it and it you know it goes on tiktok whatever but I'm saying like can
24:08you imagine how many of these cases are happening behind closed doors and how many kids have to go
24:12through you know stages of bullying and a lot of that don't end so going back to that so I actually
24:19gave a talk at a primary school you know sometime last year and my first question to them was
24:28raise your hands if you've ever been bullied and you will be shocked with the number of kids who
24:34actually raised their hands when I said that you know and then I asked them okay what are some of
24:40the things that you have been bullied on I had people tell me that they were bullied because of
24:44the shape of their eyes because of the color of their skin because of the condition of their clothes
24:51or their school bag that they're using because you know maybe they come from a family that cannot
24:57afford a very expensive school bag yeah and it was so sad to see that this was still going on
25:03in this day and age you know and and I just stood there and I was so disheartened to see all these
25:10little kids feeling that way at that age can you imagine at the age of 13 years old 14 years old
25:17and you're feeling that way it's really I know how it feels so I know what a horrible feeling
25:22it is you know and so I always think to myself why is there no change you know our world is
25:29progressing the internet is progressing but yet in a lot of ways we're back to square one we're
25:36exactly the same you know yeah which is very very sad I mean it's very sad I see that too also and
25:41I'm just like how is this happening every single day and why are kids you know doing that to other
25:47kids and why are their their parents not really and that's why I said it comes back to education
25:53home yeah yeah I feel like more than anything else it's not the kids who are to blame it's
25:59honestly the parents yeah because whatever you learn from a very young age you learn from your
26:04parents you learn everything at home yeah you know it's how your parents speak it's how your parents
26:11treat other people you know for for me I always saw how kindly my father treated people like you
26:18know the servers at a mamak shop or the guy who comes to collect our rubbish and things like that
26:23you know that's where I learned my values from because I saw how he always treated them as equals
26:29yeah you know regardless of what job they worked he always treated them as equals he always treated
26:35them kindly yeah you know so in my head I'm I'm always reminding myself okay yes this is exactly
26:41how people should be we should not you know discriminate against people because of their race
26:47or the color of their skin or the size of their body or how much money they make or what job they
26:52work you know yeah we're all humans we should all be treated equally with kindness and love and
26:58respect so I feel more than anything else there are a lot of parents out there who really need to
27:06do some you know inner work and self-realization work to and really humble themselves and understand
27:15that they are the root guy I mean they are part of the yeah they are a part of the problem and
27:21also part of the solution yes correct they can be part of the solution as well it all starts at home
27:26it starts with them you know well yeah thank you for sharing that I mean I can't imagine you know
27:32what you had to go through and like I said I'm sure whoever's watching that you know can relate
27:37to you know your experiences with whatever you say would have mean a lot to them yeah
27:42um so I guess before we end I know you do some modeling you also um you know have traveled many
27:50uh places abroad and worked with so many brands yeah how does it feel now you know on the other
27:55side of that you're on the other side I guess of that um I don't want to say hurdle but that you
28:02I feel like you've gone through it and on the other side you're on the happy side the good
28:06side of it right you've come out stronger and you come out and you've built who you are to be today
28:11and you're so confident and so eloquent and well spoken thank you you know the way that you put
28:17everything together in perspective is really you know amazing so how does it feel now that you're
28:22working with all these brands and you you're representing so many you know people women who
28:28are maybe facing a similar issue and you know seeing you as a role model how does it feel for
28:35you honestly I am just very very grateful and very very humbled by the countless opportunities that
28:42I've been given you know I always tell people I'm actually very grateful for each and every individual
28:48who has understood my vision and my purpose and you know has believed in me you know and
28:55given me that opportunity to do so many different things right I'm so grateful to them because
29:01they are also part of the solution whether they realize it or not like even with you you are also
29:07part of the solution by having conversations like this this is how we slowly change the world one
29:13step at a time of course it's not an overnight thing right and yet each effort makes a difference
29:21you know so as much as everything I've gone through was very painful and you know and and
29:28difficult and whatnot I'm so glad I went through that because it actually made me the person that
29:34I am today you know I always look back and you know I think to myself okay actually if I didn't
29:40go through all that I would not have developed this resilient mentality that I have today you
29:46know because I wouldn't have known what it felt like yeah totally but because of everything I
29:51went through I also know what it feels like so I'm always reminded that you know whenever I meet
29:56people I should always treat people kindly I should always love people I should always show
30:01my support in any way I can because you never really know what the person is going through
30:07yeah you know and that's something to remember is regardless of who you speak to always be kind
30:13towards them because kindness really does go a long way yeah you know the words that you use
30:18have the ability to either make or break someone yeah for me it made me because I've heard so many
30:25words throughout my life that I used those words as my fuel and my energy to become a better person
30:33to grow myself you know to to develop my mental health to develop my perspective surrounding life
30:40but there are people out there who I've spoken to who have been severely you know negatively
30:45impacted by these words you know so I'm always I'm always telling people you know just be kind
30:52even if someone is mean to you you know especially on the internet people can be really mean
30:56trolls people yeah there are a lot of trolls out there you know they make a lot of unnecessary
31:00comments yeah but it's one of those things where instead of feeling angry you should feel sorry for
31:06them because people who bully other people are people who feel insecure on the inside yeah that
31:13is true it's it's like the term misery loves company right when someone is miserable they want
31:18other people to be miserable too because they can't stand the sight of seeing other people happy
31:23but the best way to maneuver around all this is to just ignore it yes it's hurtful you know what
31:30just put it out into the universe and say I hope this person finds peace someday I hope they find
31:35happiness because everybody deserves that yeah but it's something that they have to work on on
31:40their own it's got absolutely nothing to do with you yeah well said Sonia so before I let you go
31:47once again I'd like to thank you for coming on thank you so much to me and of course to this
31:52show as well so again before I let you go maybe you could tell our viewers where they can find
31:58you on socials if they'd like to follow yes so you guys can follow me on Instagram and TikTok
32:04under Sonia Danita and you can also follow my association which is the vitiligo association
32:10Malaysia where we've got a lot of wonderful individuals who have shared wonderful stories
32:14as well but yeah that's basically it okay well that is it from us once again thank you Sonia
32:22thank you you know it was lovely chatting with you and having you on the show
32:26and for those of you watching thanks for watching and I will see you guys in the next episode
32:33bye for now

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