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00:00The situation in northern Gaza where Israeli forces have been expanding operations is of
00:05particular concern.
00:07Today, some relief as the UN said it was hoping that some 30 trucks carrying aid would be
00:12allowed to enter the area.
00:15It comes after the organisation sounded the alarm saying no food had been delivered to
00:19northern Gaza, putting one million people at risk of going hungry.
00:24For rights groups, it's a sign that Israel has already begun implementing a controversial
00:28plan put forward by a group of retired Israeli senior officials to seal off humanitarian
00:34aid to northern Gaza in an attempt to starve out Hamas militants, something the Israeli
00:40Minister of Defence, Yoav Galant, has fiercely denied.
00:43Rights groups say the so-called General's Plan would be a breach of humanitarian law.
00:48Well, let's get more on this and speak to Rosa Friedman who is a Professor of Law, Conflict
00:54and Global Development at the University of Reading.
00:57Thanks so much for joining us on the programme, Rosa, we really appreciate having you on the
01:03programme.
01:04So, Israel has denied that it's taking steps to put this plan in place but the World Food
01:08Programme has said that the main crossings into the north are closed.
01:14We have them also saying that food aid hasn't entered since October 1st.
01:18Can't we say that surely Israel is starting to implement this plan?
01:24The Israeli organisation COGAT, which is in charge of making sure that aid gets delivered
01:30into Gaza, have categorically denied that the crossings have been closed.
01:35Of course, the checks at these crossings are there to make sure that there's no weapons
01:39going in and everything else.
01:41We know that when the aid trucks do go in, very often they're taken by the militants,
01:45by the terrorists in Hamas and not delivered to the people.
01:49But certainly what we've seen is a slowing down of that aid and particularly to north
01:52Gaza, which is where this deep concern comes from, as your reporter was saying in the earlier
01:58segment.
01:59And Rosa, one of the most worrying parts of this so-called General's Plan is that those
02:05that don't heed Israel's evacuation orders in the north and decide to stay are effectively
02:11considered military targets and totally cut off from supplies of food, water and medicines.
02:19It's basically trapping civilians.
02:21Is this a breach of humanitarian law?
02:24Well, first of all, this is not Israeli government policy.
02:28This plan was presented to the Israeli government by retired generals and retired army officials,
02:33but not by government officials.
02:34And it's not yet clear, even from the media in Israel, whether or not this plan will be
02:39taken up.
02:40But what the plan said was to have evacuation orders for all civilians to leave the north
02:45of Gaza.
02:46We know that many civilians have remained, often moving from place to place in north
02:50Gaza and then going back to their own homes rather than going south and living there for
02:54a year as displaced persons.
02:57Many of those people will also be the elderly or the vulnerable people with disabilities
03:00who simply are not able to travel easily.
03:03But this plan that was presented to the Israeli government, but has not been adopted as far
03:08as we know, really is about this idea of siege, which is a legitimate form of warfare against
03:14militants or against other armies.
03:17You can lay siege if there are real military reasons to do so, such as forcing the release
03:23of hostages or the surrender of terrorists.
03:26But of course, if there are hundreds of thousands of civilians there, then that siege becomes
03:30unlawful.
03:31You can't lay siege to civilians.
03:33You can't starve civilian populations.
03:35You can't wage war on civilians.
03:37So it will very much be a matter of if this plan gets implemented, whether or not there's
03:42actual safe passage for those civilians.
03:45As we've seen, civilians have been moving around this very small strip of land now for
03:50more than a year, and that hasn't necessarily made them safe.
03:55So it's very difficult to separate out those civilians who are there because they refuse
04:02to go or because, as Hamas is doing, they are sending messages telling civilians not
04:06to leave.
04:07They're being used as human shields.
04:09But also there's civilians who simply cannot leave.
04:12We've also had reports from the Associated Press saying that if this strategy that is
04:17apparently being implemented, if it's successful in northern Gaza, the Israeli government might
04:23look at replicating it in other areas.
04:25Can you see that happening?
04:29I'm not a military strategist, and it's unclear where this terrorist organisation is rebuilding
04:35and reforming around Gaza.
04:39Clearly what needs to happen, very clearly, is a ceasefire and the rebuilding of Gaza.
04:43And in order to get there, what really needs to happen is the release of any remaining
04:46hostages and the end to the terrorism being perpetrated against Israel.
04:52We need a political settlement because these military strategies simply are not working.
04:57And what we've seen is huge amounts of displacement and death in Gaza, displacement across Israel,
05:03rockets being fired, tanks moving in.
05:06And a year on, we seem to be no closer to an end to this war.
05:11I want to focus on southern Lebanon now, where the Israeli military is also carrying out
05:16operations.
05:17We've had the UN say that the new evacuation orders issued by Israel constitutes, well
05:24means that a quarter of the population in Lebanon is now under evacuation orders, been
05:31told to move and to leave.
05:34What's your thoughts on humanitarian law in that situation there?
05:39The problem that's been going on in Lebanon for nearly two decades now is that there have
05:43been UN peacekeepers who are supposed to enforce a resolution that prevents having Hezbollah,
05:49which is more than just a terrorist organisation.
05:50It's a larger army than the Lebanon army.
05:54It's sort of in control of the state in much the same way as we see big drug cartels being
05:59in control of large parts of Mexico, for example, or previously in Colombia.
06:03So we're talking about a very different organisation to Hamas.
06:08The UN peacekeepers were supposed to be there to enforce this piece of land between the
06:14between Israeli army and Hezbollah to prevent these rockets being fired constantly across
06:20the border, terrorising the north of Israel, where hundreds of thousands of people have
06:24been displaced.
06:26Israel has now gone into the south of Lebanon.
06:30As a result of that, many hundreds of thousands of Lebanese civilians have been issued these
06:37evacuation orders.
06:38They've become displaced persons in their own countries in much the same way as we've
06:41seen in Gaza over the past year.
06:44What the Israeli media is reporting is that UN peacekeeping bases and infrastructure,
06:54they've actually found rockets and all sorts of military weapons of Hezbollah within those
07:01UN peacekeeping places, in much the same way that they found similar things in UNRWA, you
07:06know, the UN schools and other infrastructure in Gaza.
07:10So it's unclear at the moment what the military strategy is in Lebanon from Israel.
07:16But certainly this level of displacement, you know, even though these are legitimate
07:22military targets in terms of the Hezbollah big weapons caches and weapons dumps, the
07:28huge displacement in a country that is so fragile in terms of the economy, in terms
07:33of food security, in terms of water and sanitation, that it will be easier to deliver aid into
07:40Lebanon.
07:41But really, the questions need to be asked as to why that aid needs to be delivered in.
07:45And those questions really need to be asked of the UN and its peacekeeping forces has
07:49abjectly failed in that country over the last two decades.
07:53Yeah, it seems that we need answers from quite a few different parties there.
07:58Rosa, it's really good to get your thoughts.
07:59Thanks so much for joining us on the programme.
08:02That's Rosa Friedman, who is a Professor of Law, Conflict and Global Development at the
08:06University of Reading.