Cancer does not have to be a death sentence — it can be a call to action instead.
With early detection and effective treatments, many patients may go on to lead a normal and fulfilling life.
In conjunction with Pinktober, a month dedicated to raising awareness about breast cancer, Life & The City podcast takes a dive into this important topic.
Hosts Aida Ahmad and Farid Wahab welcome special guest Renee Aziz Ahmad, a cancer survivor, who is also a wildlife activist and outdoor enthusiast.
Together they explore not just the medical aspect, but also the emotional journey a cancer diagnosis might entail.
The podcast is available on www.thestar.com.my/metro and on The Star’s YouTube channel (@thestaronline).
WATCH MORE: https://thestartv.com/c/news
SUBSCRIBE: https://cutt.ly/TheStar
LIKE: https://fb.com/TheStarOnline
With early detection and effective treatments, many patients may go on to lead a normal and fulfilling life.
In conjunction with Pinktober, a month dedicated to raising awareness about breast cancer, Life & The City podcast takes a dive into this important topic.
Hosts Aida Ahmad and Farid Wahab welcome special guest Renee Aziz Ahmad, a cancer survivor, who is also a wildlife activist and outdoor enthusiast.
Together they explore not just the medical aspect, but also the emotional journey a cancer diagnosis might entail.
The podcast is available on www.thestar.com.my/metro and on The Star’s YouTube channel (@thestaronline).
WATCH MORE: https://thestartv.com/c/news
SUBSCRIBE: https://cutt.ly/TheStar
LIKE: https://fb.com/TheStarOnline
Category
🗞
NewsTranscript
00:00It's officially Pinktober, a month dedicated to raising awareness about breast cancer and
00:09the vital importance of early detection.
00:12Renee Aziz is a two-time cancer survivor, a motivational speaker, and the Rimau Honorary
00:19Secretary.
00:22She just underwent brain surgery, this non-invasive brain surgery, and she is here with us to
00:27tell her story.
00:29Welcome everyone to the 10th episode of Life in the City podcast.
00:33I can't think of a better day to discuss this important topic, Farid.
00:38Agree.
00:40Thank you Aida for the introduction and thank you Renee for agreeing to join us today.
00:44The reason we are doing this topic today is because we think when it comes to cancer,
00:48there has been a lot of coverage about what cancer is, the kinds of treatments that people
00:55have to go through.
00:57But we think there's not been much coverage when it comes to how they deal with the mental
01:03health aspect of it, and we are hoping that Renee can shed some light on this topic for
01:09us today.
01:10Thanks, Farid.
01:11Renee, would you mind if I share some of your background story on your cancer diagnosis?
01:20Well, in 2001, Renee, you were diagnosed with stage 2 breast cancer after having just turned
01:2740, right?
01:28And over the next nine months, you underwent a mastectomy followed by eight cycles of chemotherapy
01:36instead of the usual six, and five weeks of daily radiotherapy treatments.
01:42Now in the years that immediately followed, Renee discovered what it means to live life
01:50to the fullest by taking on a challenge to climb Mount Kilimanjaro in Africa.
01:55Yes, I did.
01:56Well done.
01:58You say that lightning doesn't strike twice, but unfortunately, it did.
02:04In 2014, Renee was diagnosed with a second unrelated cancer in her right parotid gland.
02:12You endured five hours of surgery to remove the tumor and six weeks of targeted radiotherapy,
02:19to which you continued to focus on your career as part of a senior management team at PLUS, right?
02:25Yes, that's correct.
02:26Until 2016, you discovered that your breast cancer had spread to your lungs, and at this
02:35time, you were living with stage 4 metastatic breast cancer.
02:39Yes.
02:40And unfortunately, it drove you to resign from your position at the company, right?
02:48Well, yes, I did, because I had to take into account what the work was also putting a certain
02:56amount of pressure on me, and I decided I didn't need the stress from all of that, because
03:01I had other things to deal with on a personal front, and I felt that my personal well-being
03:07was more important than a job.
03:10But it wasn't an easy thing to give up, especially the paycheck, but in the end, I think it was
03:16a good decision for me.
03:18That's right.
03:20We've met before this episode recording, and you told me a lot about your emotional reactions
03:30to your initial diagnosis.
03:32Would you mind sharing with our listeners what you went through?
03:35Well, it was a while ago, the initial diagnosis, stage 2 breast cancer, was in 2001.
03:43And yes, it was just after my 40th birthday, and it came out of the blue.
03:48It was not something that anyone expects.
03:53So when I found out that I actually had breast cancer, my initial reaction was really one
03:58of, I suppose, shock, surprise.
04:02Was I angry?
04:03I don't think so.
04:04Was I upset?
04:05Definitely.
04:06I remember running out of the doctor's office, well, actually, I started out walking, and
04:11then when I got out into the corridor, I sort of ran straight to the ladies and had
04:15a good cry.
04:17And I guess that's really how I deal with a lot of the emotional stress.
04:23I have a good cry, because for me, it helps me release a lot of tension and anxiety.
04:30It's how I manage a lot of things.
04:35And I always used to say, while I'm driving, when I stop at a traffic light and I'm listening
04:40to music on the radio or on my car stereo system, I have a little cry at the traffic
04:47lights.
04:48And then, oh, the lights turn green again, so okay, got to stop crying now and drive
04:51to the next bit.
04:53And then at the next traffic light, I might have another cry.
04:56So it's really about fitting things in, I suppose, as you go along.
05:01It was like a cascade of emotions, wasn't it?
05:05It was.
05:06And on top of that, I suppose there was my family as well.
05:10And I can't even begin to tell you what they must have been going through.
05:16And especially for my mom, one of the things that I think was the hardest was letting my
05:23mother know what was happening.
05:25But I did, and she was actually pretty calm about it.
05:32And I think she gave me that confidence to just keep doing what I knew I had to do.
05:38Renee, what prompted you to go get the medical checkup?
05:44Was there something that happened before that?
05:46Yeah, were there signs?
05:48Well, 2001, what happened was I had just come back from a scuba diving trip.
05:55And I took the day off because I had to return all my rented dive gear back to the shop.
06:01And I was going to have a shower.
06:06And I remember I had a mirror above my chest of drawers just in front of the bathroom door.
06:15And as I was going into the bathroom, I happened to see myself in the mirror.
06:19And I realized there was something strange about my left breast.
06:22It didn't look the same.
06:25Something was different.
06:26So on closer inspection, I realized that the skin wasn't quite how it normally should be.
06:36So it prompted me to go in to see a doctor the next day.
06:41I went to the A&E department at a hospital very near my workplace and asked them to check
06:47it out.
06:48So they did.
06:49And they did a mammogram.
06:51And I think we did an ultrasound.
06:55And it showed that there was definitely something there, a lump.
07:00But that doesn't tell you whether it's a cancer or not.
07:03You need to do a biopsy for that.
07:06So that was on, I think it was a Monday.
07:09So on the Wednesday was the day that the breast specialist doctor would be in running her
07:17clinic.
07:18So I saw her on Wednesday.
07:21And yeah, we did a biopsy lumpectomy on the Saturday.
07:26So there was a very quick little surgery to remove the lump and the surrounding tissue.
07:32And she was actually hoping that if she could get enough out, that would be it.
07:37I wouldn't need any more surgery.
07:39But when they did their tests and everything, they said that the margin wasn't clear, meaning
07:44there were cancer cells right up to the edge of the sample or what they had taken out,
07:53which meant I had to go back in for a full mastectomy after that.
08:00Yeah.
08:01So that's how it went.
08:03Sorry, forgive me for being very, very curious, because I've never had an in-depth conversation
08:10with a cancer survivor before.
08:12You would be my first, the first person I've had this conversation with.
08:17So prior to that, did you experience any pain, did you have any suspicions of what it could
08:23be, or were you completely caught off guard by that?
08:26None whatsoever.
08:28So yeah, I was completely caught off guard.
08:31Like I said, it wasn't something I was expecting, and it did put me into a bit of a state of
08:39shock.
08:41That first day at the hospital where I had the first initial mammogram and all of this
08:52done, because it was close to my workplace, of course I called my friends at work and
08:59they came and sat with me in the cafeteria, sat with me while I had a good cry again.
09:06And it marked the beginning of, I would say, a new phase of my life, completely new, because
09:15I think once you've been told you have cancer, everything changes.
09:19Your entire outlook changes, your image of yourself changes, and at first it's just an
09:27image of yourself that changes, and eventually you change physically as well, because of
09:32all the treatments that you have to go through.
09:34And that is something you have to deal with, because you will no longer look the same,
09:39you will not feel the same.
09:42But the good news is, it's all manageable, isn't it?
09:46Because it's really up to you.
09:48And I always used to say, you know, you have a choice.
09:51You can say, well, okay, this is the end, you can find a little corner somewhere, go
09:56sit in it and just wait for that end to come, or you can say, hey, what the heck, I still
10:03have a life to live, and I'm just going to go out there and enjoy it as much as I can,
10:09because it really does drive home the realization that life is fleeting, it's temporary.
10:20There are no guarantees as to how long you will be here.
10:23Yeah, nothing is permanent.
10:25Nothing is permanent.
10:26So you might as well make the best of whatever you've got and enjoy life as much as you can.
10:33What were some of the activities that you had to forego?
10:42You must have had your favorite activities, and it must have been hard, because I remember
10:49you were telling me about how when the cancer affected your lungs, you couldn't go hiking,
10:58which is your favorite activity.
10:59Please, please share with us.
11:01Well, I still did go hiking.
11:05In the beginning, during that first nine months, of course, I couldn't do a lot of things.
11:11I didn't have the energy, and walking up a flight of stairs was difficult.
11:17I didn't go diving for the whole of the nine months or so, I think it was about a year
11:22before my dive instructors, and he did this to help me get over everything that I had
11:29been through.
11:30So he invited me on a dive trip to Thailand, which I went for, and yeah, it marked the
11:37beginning of starting to do things again as well.
11:40And then, of course, the invitation to climb Mount Kilimanjaro.
11:44But the second round, you know, when it came back in my lungs in 2016, it made it difficult.
11:54Hiking is harder than it was previously, but I still went hiking.
12:02I still did things.
12:03I still climbed mountains.
12:05It's just that I knew that my chances of reaching the summit were not as good as before.
12:11But I made attempts on Mount Elbrus in Russia twice, once in 2017, and again in 2019.
12:23Wow, that's amazing.
12:25And in 2019, I did much better than the first time.
12:30And Elbrus, if you know it at all, it's actually two peaks, yeah, the East Peak and the West
12:34Peak.
12:35I did not know that.
12:36And the bit in between, they call that the saddle.
12:40And that's at around 5,300 or so meters high.
12:45And I managed to get to the saddle.
12:50And I knew I wouldn't be able to do the summit because I wouldn't have been able to do it
12:54in time.
12:55At this point, had the cancer already affected your lungs?
12:59Yes.
13:00I would imagine in that high altitude, how did you work up the courage to go through
13:08all of that?
13:09I think the courage comes with doing things.
13:13You know, as long as you're trying, you will learn to understand what your body can do,
13:18what it can't do.
13:20And it gives you the confidence to try a bit more, try a bit more.
13:24But I reached that saddle and I knew there was no way I was going to get to the summit
13:28in good time because it was already past 10 a.m.
13:33And I knew that I would need at least two hours just to get up, if indeed I could.
13:41And I'd had a lot of trouble breathing just to get to the saddle.
13:44So I decided, hey, this is my summit right here.
13:49And my guide said, yeah, I think it's time we go down now.
13:52And of course, I couldn't disagree.
13:54He gave me a few minutes to have another little cry.
13:57How cold was it?
13:58I cry a lot.
13:59How cold was it?
14:00Oh, I don't really remember, but it would have been...
14:04The sun was out.
14:05I don't think it was as cold as it can be in bad weather.
14:11But definitely, I don't know, somewhere maybe minus five or so.
14:17You're a real warrior.
14:19Rene, how about your families?
14:21Did they express any concern about you continuing to get involved with physical activities?
14:27Yes, but I don't think they express it so much to me as they do to each other.
14:33I have two sisters.
14:35By 2016, my mother had passed away already.
14:40But my two sisters, I think they talk to each other a lot more than they do to me about
14:45their concerns.
14:46You suspect they were talking about you behind you, okay.
14:50Oh, yeah.
14:53I think it's probably true of a lot of people.
14:56You never want to talk to the person directly because you don't want them to be upset.
15:01It's uncomfortable.
15:03It's a hard thing to talk about, especially with the patient or the survivor, as some
15:09people like to call us.
15:13It's easier to talk about it to each other, and at least my sisters have each other.
15:18So they are each other's support as well.
15:21And caregivers need to always remember this, that they are also affected by everything
15:26that's going on with the patient.
15:29So they need to remember to look after their own mental health and well-being and find
15:35support for themselves as well.
15:37Rene, if I could take our conversation sideways just momentarily.
15:43Prior to this recording, me and Aida, we had a brief conversation about should we call
15:48cancer survivor or cancer patient.
15:51We're trying to be politically correct and we don't want to offend anybody.
15:56As a person with cancer yourself, do you have any preference?
16:00Not particularly, and I'm not super sensitive.
16:04So if someone calls me a survivor, I'm like, yeah, I am.
16:08If someone wants to call me a patient, well, I am a patient.
16:12I'm still undergoing treatment.
16:13I see my oncologist every month, regular as clockwork.
16:18We've tried to make that a little bit more, like maybe every two months, but so far it's
16:25still a monthly visit.
16:28In LinkedIn, I call myself cancer warrior.
16:31That's right.
16:32Because it seems a little bit more positive and a little bit more about overcoming things,
16:39overcoming challenges.
16:41But it's really up to the individual.
16:44Some people really hate the term survivor.
16:47Why is that?
16:48I'm not sure.
16:49You'd have to ask them, really.
16:52For me, it doesn't matter.
16:54It's just words, and I don't feel insulted by anything or put off by anything.
17:02And I understand people like you, like you say.
17:07People sometimes, they don't know.
17:09They don't know how to approach the subject with you.
17:12They don't know how to talk to you about it.
17:17So I guess that's why I talk about it, to make everybody feel a little bit more comfortable
17:22as well, and to share my experience because I know there are a lot of people who have
17:28a lot of questions and they don't know how to ask.
17:33When you told us about the times where you cried a lot, what were some of the other thoughts
17:43that came in your head while going through your different results, your different diagnosis
17:51from the initial breast cancer diagnosis to how it spread, and how it spread again to
18:03stage four?
18:05What were your battles at that time, in terms of your mental health?
18:11I guess, well, anxiety is probably top of the list.
18:16You're anxious.
18:17You're anxious about how it's progressing.
18:20You're anxious about how long you can survive this.
18:24You are anxious about paying the bills.
18:26It's not a cheap exercise.
18:29Treatments can be very, very expensive.
18:33And yeah, then there is the fear.
18:38And I tell myself that I've come to terms with the fact that this could be how my life
18:46ends.
18:47It could be the cancer that will finally do me in.
18:50But then again, it could be something else completely different.
18:54I could have an accident.
18:55A tree could fall on me.
18:57I mean, yeah, there's so many ways, 50 ways to kill your lover.
19:03There's so many ways that life can be taken away from you.
19:07Cancer is only one of them.
19:09And that's the thing, I suppose, the main thing that we all have to deal with, not just
19:14cancer patients, but anyone, whether you have cancer or not, is uncertainty.
19:20Life is full of uncertainty.
19:21That's right.
19:23So I suppose you turn to things like faith.
19:28And for a lot of people, religion gives them faith.
19:32For others, it's less religion and more about community.
19:38It's again, up to the individual.
19:40I'm not a particularly religious person.
19:43I do believe there is a God.
19:47And I do sometimes pray to him.
19:50I'm not sure exactly what I'm praying for.
19:53I know he can't be for everlasting life because that's not what it's all about.
20:00We aren't supposed to be here permanently.
20:01It is temporary.
20:03It's about living your best life for as long as you can.
20:08And that means having quality of life.
20:11There's no point being hooked up to a machine and being kept alive.
20:16So I hope that's how my life will go, that I will be able to stay active for as long
20:21as possible.
20:23And then hopefully when the end does come, it will be quick.
20:28But we can't guarantee any of that for ourselves.
20:31We really have no control over it.
20:34And so we have to accept whatever comes our way.
20:37And I guess that's another word, acceptance.
20:42You can't really heal.
20:43You can't deal with your situation if you don't accept it for what it is.
20:47I had to accept that I was now a breast cancer patient and that that didn't end with treatments.
20:56It was going to be with me for life.
20:59Once I accepted that, then I could deal with it.
21:03And dealing with it means understanding that life will always have its ups and downs.
21:11It will always have their ups and downs.
21:13Since it metastasized to my lungs, I've had, I don't know, about five or six different
21:20kinds of medications that I've gone through.
21:23They are what we call targeted hormone therapies.
21:27And each one has lasted a few months to a year, a year and a bit.
21:32And then it's not really able to fight the cancer anymore.
21:36So I move on to another one.
21:38The good news is that today, the advancements in treatments are quite fast.
21:45So when one thing doesn't work anymore, you have other options that you can look at.
21:51Of course, 20, 30 years ago, it wasn't so prolific, I think, the advancements.
22:00So people had fewer choices.
22:03So I think my generation and the generations that come after, we are lucky in that sense.
22:08We have many more options.
22:11Renee, you mentioned treatments being expensive.
22:15How do you deal with that?
22:16And how expensive are these treatments exactly?
22:19Well, my advice to everyone is don't delay.
22:24Get your insurance in place.
22:27I was an insurance, we called ourselves life planner for a while.
22:33I've given that up now, because it just introduced new stress into my life, which I don't want
22:38to deal with.
22:39But your insurance agents, your life planners are very, very important people.
22:45You need to find a good one.
22:48And you need to get your insurance in place.
22:50And there's two things you can do.
22:51A medical card is a must.
22:54And then critical illness.
22:57I had a medical card, but at that time, the medical cards were quite limited.
23:04You didn't have things like no lifetime limit, no annual limit.
23:10So my medical card carries a lifetime limit of, I think, 300,000 ringgit, and an annual
23:18limit of 100,000 ringgit.
23:21And I bought a rider, which I attached to that for outpatient treatment for serious
23:26diseases like cancer.
23:28But it was limited.
23:29I think I had about 60 or 70,000 ringgit on that rider.
23:34And I exhausted that rider when I did the treatment for the parotid gland.
23:42Tell us about how it affected your parotid gland, and what is it exactly?
23:49It was a lump that was in the parotid gland, which is the gland that produces saliva.
23:57And I had no idea.
23:58It's just that I was washing my face, and I realized that when I touched this part underneath
24:05my jaw here, there was a strange tingly sensation.
24:09So I was due to see my breast surgeon anyway for a follow-up.
24:13So I asked her about it, and we decided to do a biopsy, a needle biopsy.
24:18And that showed that actually this was a cancer, but it's not a cancer that responds
24:24to chemotherapy.
24:25So there was no chemo involved.
24:27In a way, thank goodness.
24:29I only had to do radiotherapy.
24:32They checked, you know, the scar runs all the way down my neck, because they checked
24:37all the lymph nodes here to see if there was any further spread.
24:42There was none.
24:43Again, I was quite lucky that I caught it early enough.
24:48And so that's where it ended.
24:50It just stopped.
24:51You know, I didn't need to do any further treatment, and it's been fine ever since.
24:57We don't expect it to pop up again or progress in any way.
25:01That's good to know.
25:02Yes.
25:03It hasn't really affected me, except if you really look closely.
25:09It affects my hairdresser, because if you look really closely, one ear now is a little
25:12bit higher than the other.
25:15And I had a hairdresser who was trying to figure out why he couldn't get my sides the
25:18same.
25:19It's because my ears are not the same.
25:21Subtle.
25:22That's it.
25:23Yeah, but really subtle.
25:24Come and see it.
25:26And again, you know, imperfection.
25:28I think I wrote about it once for a LinkedIn post.
25:32That's right.
25:33Yeah, I think I saw that.
25:34You learn to accept imperfection, because really life is all about imperfection.
25:40Everything can be 100% perfect, even when you think it is.
25:45It's not.
25:46It isn't.
25:47Renee, we learned that you recently had what's called PET scan sometime in May to check the
25:55progression of your cancer.
25:57Can you tell us a little bit about what happened then?
26:00Well, actually, the PET scan in May, followed by the MRI, it was an annual scan.
26:09And that is what picked up the lesion in the brain.
26:13So really, it's a check, because a PET scan is probably the most detailed scan you can
26:20do.
26:21And I do it, if I don't need to do it more often, it'll be an annual scan.
26:28Once a year?
26:29Once a year, or thereabouts.
26:33And because it picked up the lesion, that's why we did the MRI to confirm.
26:40And the MRI then is actually more detailed about that specific location.
26:45So it allowed us, me and my medical team, my oncologist, it allowed us to see that there
26:53was something going on, that the cancer has progressed, and so we could do something about
26:58it.
26:59So everyone is like, yeah, going for tests and going for scans, it's very scary, because
27:05you don't know what it will find.
27:07But again, it's better to find it as early as possible, isn't it?
27:12That's right.
27:13Because then you can do something about it.
27:15What's a lesion, Renee?
27:18It's a term, I guess, and like everything else, we're not doctors, on our side of the
27:25fence, we're trying to understand all this terminology as well.
27:30So I think a lesion is just something that is an abnormality, a growth of some kind in,
27:38you know, you can have a lesion in the brain, you can have lesions elsewhere.
27:43It's a general term that means there's something going on there.
27:49Something has started to grow, it could turn out to be more like a cyst, it could turn
27:54out to be more like something else.
27:57It could also end up becoming a cancerous tumor.
28:01Now, a lot of things, you know, you can never confirm cancer without a biopsy.
28:08But you have a history of cancer, your cancer has already metastasized to your lungs.
28:14So the likelihood is this is the breast cancer that has now metastasized to the brain.
28:21Not everything is biopsiable, you can't always get a sample to biopsy.
28:27I have something behind the media, behind my sternum, close to my heart.
28:38We assume that to also be part of my cancer, what has spread.
28:47But it's not something you can biopsy because you can't get a needle in there to take a
28:51sample out.
28:53I have had nodules around my lungs and I was thinking about getting onto one of those trials
29:03where they try out a clinical trial, but in order to do that, they have to biopsy things.
29:09They have to have results to show whether the treatments, you know, what is it doing,
29:15is it working, is it making anything better.
29:18But these nodules, you can't biopsy them because they're too small and they're too close to
29:22the lung.
29:23So trying to get a sample might actually damage the lung itself.
29:28So you can't always get a sample that you can biopsy in a lab and confirm this is cancer.
29:36But you know the history, you know other things.
29:39So it's really like a CSI thing, you know, you're putting information together and coming
29:45up with your best answers as to what this could possibly be.
29:50And in my case, again, you know, if you're going to make a mistake, you might as well
29:56err on the side which means you do more rather than less.
30:03So for me, I take it as it comes.
30:07If that's what it is or if that's what we think it is, let's deal with it.
30:10If we make a mistake, actually it's not, but we've kind of over-dealt with things, it's
30:15okay because let's over-deal with things rather than under-deal.
30:20Catch as much as we can.
30:23Would you say over-dealing with things is the best way to go for people who suspect
30:32that any abnormalities they find on their body could be cancer because there are people
30:41who put it away and use excuses like, I have too much work to do, we don't have enough
30:48stuff at the office, I need to go to work, this could be nothing, and they put it off
30:51and put it off until that day comes when they get a checkup and realize, oh no, it is actually
31:01cancer stage 2, 3, or 4.
31:05They've waited a bit too long.
31:08To me, that's not about over-dealing or under-dealing.
31:12If you notice something, you need to get it checked out straight away, don't wait.
31:19The office, guess what, they will survive without you.
31:22They survived without me for five months.
31:27I found that I had something different about my breast.
31:32On the Monday morning, I went straight to see the A&E at the hospital.
31:42Within two days, I'd seen the specialist.
31:44Within a week, I'd had the lumpectomy.
31:46Everything moved quite fast but that's how it needs to be.
31:51The longer you wait, the more likely it is that the cancer will start to spread and you
31:58will lose years of your life if you do that.
32:03The last thing you want is to go so late that it's already spread so far that you suddenly
32:09find you have two, three months left.
32:13Breast cancer, it's not so difficult to pick it up.
32:18There are other cancers like internal ones, cancer of the stomach or the spleen or something
32:24that's internal where it's a lot harder to detect early.
32:28That's right.
32:29For example, pancreatic cancer, it's the most difficult to detect until it's advanced dangerously.
32:38With a cancer like that, a lot of the time, by the time it's diagnosed, it's already a late stage.
32:44With breast cancer, that doesn't have to be.
32:48For young women, you are advised, know your body.
32:53Understand your breasts.
32:54Know what changes take place as your, they call it menses, periods, your cycle.
33:03Know how your breasts change before your period, during and after.
33:07Do your self-checks every month.
33:10If something feels different, don't be shy about it.
33:13Go see your doctor.
33:14It might be nothing.
33:16Most of the time, it is nothing.
33:19Don't allow fear to stop you from finding out what it is.
33:22Yeah.
33:23Yeah.
33:24And speaking about not letting fear overcome you, men get breast cancer too.
33:31They do.
33:32It's not, you know, it's quite rare.
33:34Only 5% of all cases will be a man.
33:41And I actually have met a man who had breast cancer.
33:44And again, you know, for men, it's even more difficult because it's supposed to be a woman's
33:50disease.
33:51How come I've got it?
33:52Is there something-
33:53There's a stigma attached to it.
33:54Yes.
33:55There's an additional stigma attached to it.
33:56Women have stigmas too, you know.
33:58And there are people who will try and tell you that this is your fault.
34:01You must have done something really terrible in your youth, you know.
34:05I'm like, okay.
34:08If that's how you want to believe things to be, fine.
34:12But that's not how I see things.
34:14I think cancer can strike anyone.
34:17It doesn't discriminate.
34:19It will strike people who are young, children, older people, male, female, any race, any
34:29religion.
34:30It doesn't matter if you pray five times a day or don't pray at all.
34:34If it's going to get you, it's going to get you.
34:37So to me, those things don't really come into the equation at all.
34:42Yeah.
34:43Rene, how did you deal with the initial phase of anxiety?
34:46I'm asking this because when I was in school, in secondary school, I think I was in Form
34:515, I had chickenpox.
34:54And I began pulling out my textbooks.
34:58I wanted to read as much as I possibly could about it.
35:02And then I talked to my biology teacher, what's this about, you know.
35:06And it was just a chickenpox.
35:08So I imagine in your scenario, it is for something much more serious than just chickenpox.
35:14How did you deal with the initial anxiety after your initial diagnosis?
35:19It's interesting that you bring up this thing about, you know, finding out stuff, learning
35:25about what's going on.
35:28And these days, of course, we have this magic tool called the internet.
35:32That's right.
35:33It's just that there is a lot of really good information out there.
35:38And there's also a lot of stuff you really shouldn't bother with, because there's a lot
35:42of misinformation out there.
35:45So you need to be discerning in what you read.
35:47Don't just read everything and just take it all as God's word, you know.
35:52And there are a lot of testimonials out there.
35:55Some of them are true stories of people just sharing their experience, what they've been
36:00through.
36:02And some of it is because they're trying to sell a product.
36:05And some of it is because someone is paying them.
36:08And not all of it is really a real, true testimonial.
36:13So again, you know, the miracles that take place because, oh, you know, boil this leaf,
36:22make a soup, drink the water, and you'll be fine.
36:26I really wouldn't go with that.
36:28I would really prefer if people would seek out medical advice rather than all this kind
36:37of miracle cure, because most of the time it doesn't work.
36:42And a lot of people put a lot of faith in it.
36:45And then three, four years later, they're back at the doctors.
36:51But now the doctors are looking at it and going, I can't help you anymore.
36:56If you had followed my advice three years ago, this would be a totally different story.
37:01But there's not much I can do now.
37:05That's scary to hear.
37:08But it's true, isn't it?
37:10Because I've read a lot about how a lot of cancer patients want to believe in alternative
37:18treatments, but they don't realize that you cannot mix these alternative treatments with
37:25Western medicine unless your doctor says it's okay.
37:31It's very dangerous, right?
37:33Well, I'll give you just a simple example, because I haven't come up against that myself.
37:39But there are certain medications where you can't eat fruits like pomelos, grapefruits,
37:47because it's counteractive to the medication you're taking.
37:51It makes the medication ineffective.
37:54So you're told, okay, stay away from these particular types of fruits when you're on
37:59this medication.
38:00And that's just food.
38:02So imagine if you're taking other types of alternative treatments or herbs or things
38:09like this.
38:10So they always say, alternative medicine, it does have its role to play.
38:16But if you are undergoing medical treatment, always check with your doctors.
38:22Is it okay for me to take this?
38:24Should I avoid this?
38:25And get their advice first.
38:28Speaking of food, what has been the shift in your diet ever since your diagnosis?
38:36Because food is very important for people who are going through cancer treatments, right?
38:44Would you mind telling us how you've handled it or are still handling it?
38:50Again, everybody's different.
38:53Everybody has their own view of things.
38:56My view is simple and I've always followed what my doctors have repeatedly said to me,
39:01which is eat well, eat healthy, don't overdo anything, and don't suddenly cut out an entire
39:11food group from your diet.
39:12Don't suddenly overnight become a vegetarian or something.
39:16Because the likelihood is you will miss out important nutrients that you need.
39:24I've heard about people who went on a diet of, oh, I'll only eat broccoli and those vegetables
39:33that are antioxidants and I won't have dinner with the family anymore because they want
39:40to eat their rice and curry and I can't eat that.
39:43And I can't eat sugar.
39:45And I can't eat this and I can't eat that.
39:48The thing is, you need energy.
39:52You need nutrition in order for your body to be strong enough to fight the cancer.
39:59And if you take everything away, even your healthy cells are going to suffer.
40:04And you won't be able to fight it.
40:06So I try and stick to, let's try and eat healthy as much as we can.
40:12Let's try and eat sensibly and let's try and eat healthily.
40:17I don't always succeed, of course.
40:20I have my days.
40:22Cheat days.
40:23They're worse than cheat days.
40:26I do like my cake and, oh, that was the other thing, you know.
40:31That first diagnosis, a lot of people took me out for coffee and cake.
40:37You just had the coffee?
40:38No.
40:39You still had the cake.
40:40I had the cake.
40:42Because that was also, you know, it helps you stay positive that life's not so bad,
40:47you know.
40:48I'm on medical leave, but hey, I'm having coffee and cake at 10 o'clock in the morning.
40:52I couldn't do this if I was still at work.
40:55So enjoy the moments that you are given, yeah.
40:59Of course, I mean, you don't have cake for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, but every once
41:04in a while, on a weekend, go out with your friends.
41:07And you know, if you don't want to have the whole piece of cake, you can always share
41:10it with your friends and have a bit at least.
41:13If it picks up your spirits, it's a good thing for you, yeah.
41:18But always, in Islam, you know, they always say everything in moderation.
41:23I believe that.
41:25Everything in moderation.
41:27Renee, you did mention at the start of this recording about how you have remained active,
41:34physically active, despite your diagnosis, and how you've continued to enjoy life.
41:40Maybe you can tell us a bit more about how have you rebounded emotionally from your diagnosis?
41:45I'm sure you said it yourself, you were emotionally devastated when you first found out.
41:51But now you seem to be managing it quite well.
41:54So how have you managed the emotional side of it?
41:58Like, how have you managed to remain positive?
42:01I guess you have to remember that I've been at this now for more than 20 years.
42:06So I guess, you know, the whole thing about acceptance of my situation, the idea that
42:12it's not going to stay still, it is going to continually progress.
42:18And whatever I do, the treatments that I undergo, it's only about trying to keep that progress
42:26as slow as possible.
42:28I can't stop it.
42:31I can't get rid of it.
42:33I can only try and manage it.
42:35And so with that in mind, I guess writing about it, talking about it, it helps keep
42:44everything in perspective.
42:46If I go into my mind and I don't talk about it, and I just think about it all in my head,
42:52and I think about all the worst things that can possibly happen, I'm not going to be able
42:59to move forward.
43:01And that's not going to help me at all.
43:04And I think you need to look at the bigger picture and not focus entirely on yourself.
43:16You need to understand where you are in the world around you as well.
43:22And that helps a lot.
43:24Put things in perspective.
43:26Don't focus too much on just yourself alone.
43:29Think about why are you going through this?
43:33Is there something you can do that's positive to help other people?
43:38And one of those things is writing about it and talking about it, which I try and do as
43:44much as I can.
43:45And that's why I really appreciate opportunities like this.
43:51When you asked me to come on this podcast, I was like, oh, yes, I'd love to.
43:58How about your support structure?
44:00I imagine you have friends or family members or maybe other people who you know also have
44:06cancer.
44:07Can you tell us a bit more about the importance of having a support structure?
44:12Support structures are very important because they help you stop always looking inward.
44:20So family, of course, as I said, I have my sisters and my sister's children.
44:29They're all a big part of my personal support system.
44:35Then I have my friends, my close friends, my hiking buddies, my diving buddies, a lot
44:40of buddies, my friends on LinkedIn.
44:44They used to be just connections.
44:46Some of them are actually friends now, like Ida.
44:50And there's a wider circle beyond that.
44:55I think almost everybody I know understands my situation and that I'm going through something.
45:01They may not know the details, but that's fine.
45:06And all of these things put together, it keeps you, again, it keeps you, it helps you keep
45:15things in perspective, again.
45:17There are a lot of support groups out there, and support groups are not for everyone.
45:23I enjoy being part of a support group up to a point, but I don't want it to become my
45:28entire life.
45:32Other women feel quite differently.
45:35They are part of the support group, they become part of the committee that manages it.
45:40It does take over a substantial part of their life, but for them it's a good thing, and
45:45they enjoy it, and it makes them feel connected to other women who are going through the same
45:51things.
45:52For me, it's like, yes, but not that much, up to a point.
45:58I've been part of a dragon boat team for the Breast Cancer Welfare Association, where we
46:03did our climbs for Concagua in 2007.
46:10That was under Pride, Pride Foundation, they've changed their name, now they are the Breast
46:15Cancer Foundation Malaysia.
46:18And these are all support groups, Pink Unity, I've done fashion shows, modeling clothing
46:26with some of these ladies since the first Pride gala fashion show in 2005.
46:34And all these activities, yes, because it reminds you that you're not alone.
46:38There are so many women going through the same thing, and even a few guys, even a few
46:44men.
46:46So you realize that, okay, we can still thrive, we can still wear amazing, wonderful, beautiful
46:57clothes and feel good about ourselves.
47:01We don't have to feel, oh, life is over, or I'm ugly, or these scars make me ugly.
47:08They don't.
47:10And for me, every scar is a reminder of what I've been through.
47:15So it reminds me how strong I can be when I put my mind to it.
47:21And I think everybody has it in them, but it's a choice.
47:27And no one has the right to tell you how you should feel, how you should react.
47:34For some women, that's what they want to do.
47:37They want to go into that corner and just wait for the end to come.
47:42You can try and persuade them to come out of that corner, but you can't do that if you're
47:46not invited in.
47:49I have quite a strong belief that I'm always available to talk to someone.
47:58So a husband sometimes, can you talk to my wife?
48:01Can you talk to my friend's wife?
48:06Only if she allows me in.
48:09I can't force myself on her.
48:11I can't force my opinions on her.
48:14And at the end of the day, she will have to make up her own mind about what she wants
48:19for herself.
48:22This emotional rollercoaster that you have experience and still experiencing, there will
48:33come a time when cancer patients will need to seek professional help to, again, talk
48:43about it, address their issues, right?
48:47And some may not want to write about it on social media or share, right?
48:52So would you say it's important to seek professional help when the time comes to iron out whatever
49:02it is that they're going through?
49:04Again, I think it's a personal choice.
49:08Something happened to me once, many, many years ago, nothing to do with cancer, nothing
49:14to do with health issues, but it disturbed me mentally.
49:22So I went to see, I think he was a psychologist, not a psychiatrist, and I had a session with
49:31him.
49:33And after that initial session, and I did it really because I thought perhaps I should,
49:39because I had gone through this rather traumatic incident, and I felt maybe I should talk to
49:46someone about it.
49:48And I talked to this gentleman, a professional, and after that he asked me if I would like
49:53to continue seeing him.
49:55I said, you know what, no.
49:58I've had this talk with you.
50:01It's helped me put aside any worry that I might have had that I need help.
50:07I'm quite confident I can move on on my own, and that was it.
50:12So I never went back, I never needed to, and until this day I'm okay with what happened
50:20and how I dealt with it.
50:22And that one session was just to give me the comfort of knowing that I didn't actually
50:26need more.
50:28So it doesn't mean that everybody has to always go down the same path.
50:33You have to find your own path.
50:36What suits you, what works for you, and it's not the same for everybody.
50:45What is your final thoughts on pinktober, early detection, and some encouragement and
50:54hope for people who are going through this similar journey or who have just been diagnosed
51:01with cancer?
51:02Well, pinktober, I think, it's a great thing because at least in the month of October every
51:10year we are reminded that we need to talk about these things, we need to create more
51:17awareness.
51:18And of course it's changing.
51:20With every year that goes by, the information is changing.
51:25Unfortunately the statistic is not changing, I think it's still 1 in 19 women in Malaysia
51:31who will be affected by breast cancer in their lifetime.
51:36Which is not a great statistic, but it's better than some other countries still.
51:42Now what do we need to do?
51:49We need to remind people that not all information is good information.
51:54Everybody can choose, but it can be very helpful.
51:59In my case, when I was told what I would need to do, oh, you're going to have to do a mastectomy,
52:05and then you're going to have to do chemo, and then you're going to have to do radiotherapy,
52:09and all this is being said to you and you're in a bit of a blur, because it's so sudden,
52:15you haven't had time to really process all this.
52:20That's where the internet can help.
52:23But go to websites that are accredited, that are professional.
52:28Don't go to any just Tom Dick O'Hairy kind of website.
52:33In my case, someone gave me a book about breast cancer and its treatment and everything, and
52:41then I went on the internet and I checked out the Mayo Clinic, because they were at
52:46that time one of the leading clinics dealing with breast cancer in women.
52:52Then I realized everything that the doctors were telling me here was exactly what I was
52:58reading on that Mayo Clinic website.
53:01That made me confident, like, okay, thank goodness they know what they're talking about.
53:07I don't have to worry that I'm getting the wrong advice from the medical fraternity here
53:13in Malaysia.
53:15We have really good doctors here.
53:17Yeah, we do.
53:18We do.
53:19Okay, make no mistake about it.
53:21Government hospitals, you may think they have brilliant doctors, and then some of those
53:27doctors go out into private practice and they bring all that expertise with them, all that
53:33experience with them into private practice, and they're brilliant doctors in private practice, too.
53:39The only problem with our government hospitals is they cannot cope.
53:46Too many patients, right?
53:49Now, this is where insurance comes in again, because if you can afford a private hospital,
53:56you take some of the burden off the government hospitals, and leave that for the people who
54:02really have no other recourse.
54:05Leave it for the B40 family where the mother is the breadwinner.
54:10She's the only one bringing home a salary every month from whatever business she's doing,
54:17and she needs treatment, too, and she can't afford that insurance that you can.
54:22She doesn't have an employer who will put her through treatment like happened for me.
54:30So try your best to take some of the pressure off, because sometimes it takes two, three
54:37months just to get an appointment to see a specialist in a government hospital.
54:42Yeah.
54:43Renee, I have one more question for you.
54:46We recently went through what I consider to be a precarious period.
54:51I meant the COVID-19 pandemic where we had to be in isolation, and there were concerns
54:56then about people with existing medical conditions like cancer, about would they be able to take
55:05the vaccine, or there were concerns about people being locked in their homes.
55:10For you personally, how did you as a cancer patient deal with all of that?
55:16I guess I haven't had COVID.
55:19All my friends have had COVID.
55:20Some have had it two or three times.
55:22I've never had COVID until now.
55:26Please keep it that way.
55:27It's still around, of course.
55:29It hasn't completely gone, but I have somehow managed to avoid it.
55:35And during that MCO period when there were a lot of lockdowns and things, I think I made
55:42the most of it because I stayed home, and at that time I was doing the insurance business,
55:51so it took a lot of pressure of having to meet clients face-to-face.
55:55You could do it all online in a Zoom meeting.
55:58They came up with online methods for insurance agents or life planners to do everything on
56:05an iPad.
56:07You didn't actually need to go out.
56:09And I found that quite nice because you didn't have to worry about driving somewhere, finding
56:15parking and getting into the meeting place before the client arrived, so it took a lot
56:22of stress away.
56:24So I think every situation presents you with some advantages, and when they do, take advantage
56:34of every single one you can.
56:36I was super careful.
56:40I did, you know, we did the whole thing.
56:43You went and bought groceries, and you bring them home, you wash everything.
56:48We did all of that, spraying everything with stuff.
56:52Disinfecting everything.
56:53Yeah.
56:54And I guess it worked.
56:57I did have the vaccinations.
57:01I got the AstraZeneca.
57:03So I did the two, and then I did the boosters, but the last booster, the third booster, was
57:09it?
57:10I didn't do.
57:12And that was after discussing it with my oncologist.
57:16We decided, you know what, let's just not do any more of these, yeah, because by that
57:23time I was stage four already for some time, and then the medications were, you know, they
57:31kept changing because they would only work for a certain amount of time.
57:36So the disease was able to progress as well.
57:40So we thought, okay, maybe we won't do any more vaccinations.
57:46Any final thoughts on this topic, Farid?
57:49I think you've given us plenty to think about and to reflect about today.
57:52Yeah.
57:53It's been a very eye-opening conversation for me.
57:56This is my first conversation with an actual in-depth conversation with a cancer patient.
58:02Really appreciate your thoughts on this.
58:04You're most welcome.
58:05I'm really happy to be here.
58:09I'm so glad you invited me to come for this.
58:14A lot of people, as you say, they want to ignore it.
58:21They want to pretend that, no, I didn't find anything.
58:25But as long as other people are talking about it and writing about it, at least they might
58:30read something.
58:31Yeah.
58:32And it might prompt them to say, maybe I should look at it.
58:37After I look at that lady, it turned out to be nothing.
58:40And look at that lady, she's still around after 24 years.
58:45Or hey, look at that man.
58:48He got it.
58:49He's a man.
58:50It must be so much more difficult for him.
58:52And he's brave enough to go out and do what he has to do.
58:56Maybe I can too.
58:58Right?
58:59Inspiring parting thoughts, Renee.
59:02And we really admire your positivity and strength.
59:06It is admirable.
59:07Thank you very much for being here with us today.
59:10Once again, it's been a pleasure.
59:12Thanks for listening, everyone.
59:13This is our final episode for this season.
59:16We will be back at a date not specified yet.
59:22But thank you for tuning in.
59:24Life in the City podcast can be viewed on our YouTube channel and www.thestar.com.my
59:31slash Metro and The Star Online.
59:46Bye.
59:47Bye.
59:48Bye.
59:49Bye.
59:50Bye.
59:51Bye.
59:52Bye.
59:53Bye.
59:54Bye.
59:55Bye.
59:56Bye.
59:57Bye.
59:58Bye.
59:59Bye.
00:00Bye.
00:01Bye.
00:02Bye.
00:03Bye.
00:04Bye.
00:05Bye.
00:06Bye.
00:07Bye.
00:08Bye.
00:09Bye.
00:10Bye.
00:11Bye.
00:12Bye.
00:13Bye.
00:14Bye.