Director of the Red Sox Netflix docuseries "The Comeback", Colin Barnicle, joins!
How close were the Red Sox to acquiring A-Rod?
How close were the Red Sox to acquiring A-Rod?
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00:00Well, joining us now to talk a little bit about the comeback on Netflix is the director Colin Barnicle.
00:10Hey Colin, how you doing?
00:12I'm doing great. How are you?
00:14Well, I have delayed watching. Curtis got a screener and watched.
00:19I wanted to wait until today and sit down and watch all three.
00:24But what was it about this project that attracted you and made you say?
00:30Because it has been, you know, the 04, the incredible season has been explored before.
00:36What was it about this that made you say we got to have another look at it?
00:41Yeah, I mean it's the most covered thing maybe in sports over the last 20 years.
00:46But, you know, I used to, when I was, I worked in the clubhouse in 2007.
00:52And every time I would get off work, everybody would be like, what are the guys like in the clubhouse?
00:57You know, so I really want to kind of explore that because, you know, the players are, you know, from being from Boston.
01:06You learn to dislike the Yankees at an early age.
01:10But these guys are, you know, one year, two year contracts.
01:13They don't hate the Yankees.
01:15So I was like, when did that start?
01:17When did the personal animosity start where the players start to be like, I just don't want to win.
01:23I want to beat the Yankees.
01:25So kind of tracking that back, like what was the beginning of it, you know?
01:30And, you know, it's three episodes.
01:32The first two and a half episodes, we don't even get to, you know, the comeback from three down.
01:38It's more like the comeback from, you know, 85, 86 years, the comeback from, you know, 2003.
01:46And kind of like exploring about, like, you know, how a team changed its culture from, you know,
01:53it's really not a rivalry with the Yankees if you lose 85 straight years.
01:58So exploring how they were able to do that, how they were able to change the culture in the ownership,
02:05in baseball operations, and then, you know, most importantly, you know, the clubhouse.
02:09You want to see what's going on in there.
02:12Is it accurate that Robert Kraft asked you to delve into how the Red Sox would not have been down 3-0
02:18if it weren't for Bill Belichick?
02:22No?
02:23We didn't get that note, no.
02:25Okay, all right.
02:26Colin, I think all three episodes are good.
02:29The final one was spectacular.
02:32There's things there that I think were about the same age.
02:36I lived this like you did.
02:37I didn't know before watching it.
02:40The part that I think The Comeback does a great job on, too, is the Cold War winter of 03-04
02:47where it's pre-social media and it's actual SportsCenter interviews that are breaking news.
02:54Could you talk about what you guys found out there and just how close the Red Sox were to landing Alex Rodriguez?
03:02So, yeah, in that winter, Alex was, I mean, he had signed a contract.
03:06Jed Hoyer has in his files a signed contract with Boston Red Sox letterhead with A-Rod on it.
03:13And we were going to get him.
03:15It got convoluted.
03:16The Players Association basically said you can't restructure a contract.
03:21And it was about $12.5 million.
03:23That was it that divided Alex Rodriguez from being a Red Sox.
03:30And right in the middle of that, you know, you've got to train Nomar Garcia-Para, the icon of Boston,
03:36if you're getting a new shortstop.
03:38And right in the middle of that, Kevin Millar went on with Dan Patrick on ESPN.
03:43And he basically said, you know, we'll take A-Rod over Nomar.
03:49And we'll take A-Rod over Manny.
03:52And he got in his truck afterwards.
03:56Nomar called him, rightfully so, saying, like, what was that about?
04:00And Millar, for about 15, 20 years, really thought he was like, no, no, no,
04:06I just answered a question about who was going to be throwing me the ball if I was playing first base.
04:11And we replayed the clip around them.
04:13We said, no, they're kind of asking you who you want.
04:16And he was like, oh, okay, Nomar has a right to be mad.
04:20So, I mean, the whole 04 team, it was like the whole culture that was created in 2003,
04:27it's kind of like almost like a Seinfeld episode.
04:30It's like, you know, no good deed goes unpunished, you know,
04:34that culture kind of got screwy in the beginning of 2004.
04:39And they had a comeback from that too.
04:41Keep saying the comeback.
04:43No spoilers here, but Curtis shared this with me, so I'll try to say it in the best way possible.
04:51You did uncover, I think for the first time, some, you know,
04:56allegations of cheating on the part of the Yankees.
05:00Yeah.
05:01Oh, don't worry about spoilers.
05:02I've been talking to just about everybody on the street.
05:05So, what did you guys uncover?
05:09So, part of it was before game two of the 2004 ALCS when Pedro was pitching.
05:19Doug Marabelli, they were all kind of in the pitcher's room where they had their pre-meetings
05:24and Doug Marabelli, for whatever reason, he reached up into a ceiling panel
05:28and he found a microphone, what they thought was a microphone or looked like a microphone,
05:35and all the players thought it was a microphone.
05:37And they got very paranoid that this thing was transmitting to somewhere in Yankee Stadium,
05:42so they ended up having to do all their pitcher's meetings.
05:46They would walk out of the clubhouse, walk across the street,
05:50and they would do it in the team bus for the rest of every time they were in New York.
05:55So, yeah, I don't know.
05:57Is it real?
05:58I mean, they definitely found the microphone.
06:01I don't know why it was there.
06:02Maybe it was, you know, a prank or whatever.
06:06But the players definitely thought there was something to it,
06:09although they did give up 19 runs at home.
06:12So it's like, I don't know, you weren't bugging your own clubhouse.
06:16Colin, you know, like we've seen a lot of this stuff and, you know, it's been so long.
06:21Is there something in this that we're going to see that we don't know about,
06:27it's completely new, or was there something new that you found out from doing this
06:31that you had no idea what all the, you know, kind of stories that have been out for a long time?
06:38You know, I think we put a lot of the rumors to bed.
06:40There's the, you know, did they take shots of Jack Daniels during it?
06:44The answer is yes, and you get to see it in this, you know.
06:50Another part, you know, I was at Game 7 2003 when Wakefield gave up the home run,
06:56and I was really interested in hearing from Grady Little, and we got Grady in this.
07:00And I remember at one point during the interview, he said, you know, it's just different if you're there.
07:05And, you know, when you're in Yankee Stadium, you have to make the decision.
07:09And, you know, and he turns to me and goes, where were you?
07:13And I go, I was at Yankee Stadium.
07:14I was about four rows behind you.
07:16And he was like, oh, okay.
07:18So just hearing from him, the 360 view of kind of that,
07:23and the whole self-doubt of these people like who built this.
07:28You look 20 years back, and it seems like a fairy tale, but like, it's like baseball,
07:33like seven out of 10 times they made the wrong decision either, you know,
07:37in ownership or the front office or down in the clubhouse.
07:40It wasn't really preordained that this was going to happen.
07:43I thought it was amazing that Grady Little hadn't aged.
07:46I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
07:47Oh, my God.
07:48I thought the same thing.
07:49I thought he was about seven years old in 2003, and then I went to visit him.
07:54I said, Grady, you look, I guess, great, or the same.
07:57He's like frozen in time.
07:58But the element for me is just how loose they were.
08:05Like, you know, obviously all the cowboy up, the idiots, all that stuff has become cliche.
08:10But the footage of the locker room, they're down three games to none at Fenway Park.
08:17Following game three in my lifetime,
08:19I have never seen a team get more rightfully destroyed than that team did.
08:22It was like unleashing the fury of 86 years on players, calling them frauds.
08:27And in that morning or that midday, they're at Fenway Park watching Animal House.
08:31Yeah.
08:33It's unbelievable.
08:35You know, I mean, it's just a group of just guys who, and, you know,
08:40Kevin Moore has a lot to do with that.
08:42Like, he made that place like a walled garden where you could, like,
08:45let your freak flag fly.
08:47It didn't matter who you were.
08:49You were all important.
08:51Everybody was going out together.
08:53I think Derek Lowe at one point says in the interview, you know,
08:56we would all go to, you know, the restaurant together, all 25 of us.
09:00And after the interview, I was like, restaurant, huh?
09:03Not a bar?
09:04And he was like, well, you know.
09:06I'm sure he meant Daisy Buchanan.
09:09He probably meant Daisies, I would assume.
09:12Colin, you keep talking about the culture back then,
09:16and you look at the guys that were the stars on that team.
09:18And I think that's the difference between now and then.
09:21They all seemed to have this connection to Boston that we just don't get anymore.
09:26It feels like, you know, even after they were long gone,
09:30they are still Boston athletes.
09:32They'll always be Boston athletes.
09:34Did that come across when you were talking to them,
09:36that they have a special connection to Boston that they don't necessarily
09:39have with other places or other teams they've played on?
09:42Yeah, absolutely.
09:44I think it's two things.
09:45I think it's one that, you know, Kevin Lahr, he's gone.
09:48He's going to Japan.
09:49His Major League Baseball career is over.
09:51So Boston to him is like kind of the savior of his whole career.
09:56And the same thing with David Ortiz.
09:58He's released.
09:59He's not going to be playing Major League Baseball,
10:01or he might be a backup somewhere.
10:03So it's kind of like their last chance or their first chance for Theo,
10:08someone like that, where it's just like, you know, and speaking to Derek Lowe,
10:13Derek Lowe played like 12 more Major League seasons.
10:15And he was like, oh, man, I really screwed up.
10:17I should have stayed in Boston.
10:18I was like, you won like 150 games afterwards.
10:21And he's like, no, I should have stayed.
10:23I should have stayed.
10:24But all those guys are just like, you know,
10:27it's the idea of feeling like you're a part of the town.
10:33I do feel like Wake, Kim Wakefield, had a big, big part of that.
10:40Having lived here, having been the longest tenured guy,
10:44that he kind of brought them into like, this is,
10:47you're part of the culture here.
10:49It's not just the city you're playing in.
10:51You're part of the city.
10:52Yeah.
10:53I think David was on with us, David Ortiz, last winter weekend.
10:57And he made the point that losing an 0-3 made him understand Boston.
11:04It was like a crash course,
11:05having never really understood this market, never been here.
11:08And then you see that.
11:09That was at the Jimmy Fund.
11:11Oh, the Jimmy Fund.
11:12I'm sorry.
11:13At the game five of the ALCS was,
11:17remains the best game I've ever seen in person.
11:19It was the most stressful, unbelievable, exhausting existence of my life.
11:24And is Ortiz the first player in baseball history to have two walk-offs
11:28in one calendar day?
11:29That has to be, right?
11:30Oh, he has to be.
11:32I mean, they got like no sleep during that.
11:34He was like a zombie, you know, during that whole thing.
11:37He looked, you know, he knew the whole thing kind of rested on him.
11:41And by the way, the players were not shy about it during the,
11:44they were like, oh, no, we were all looking at him to get the big hit.
11:47We knew we weren't.
11:48Like, you know, I think Kevin Millar was like,
11:51I'm not going to get a hit off Mariano Rivera.
11:53You know, I think I took him deep once, but I'm not going to do it.
11:57It's got to be David.
11:58So he's, you know, it's kind of when David became big poppy,
12:04you know, he's always been the same guy.
12:06He's always been this like larger-than-life guy,
12:08but that's like when he becomes quote-unquote big poppy.
12:12Well, there are three episodes.
12:14It is called The Comeback.
12:15It is on Netflix now as we speak.
12:18And Colin Barnicle directed it.
12:20And thank you for taking the time to talk about it this morning with us.