Is CFMoto in big trouble?

UTV Driver

Welcome to the UTV Driver podcast. This week, Editor-In-Chief Zach Bowman and Executive Editor Aaron Richardson discuss CF Moto's potential trouble with the feds, the incredible Polaris Ranger Kinetic, and a couple of bananas new ATVs from Can-Am. Stay tuned every other week for a new episode!  Looking to buy? Get prequalifed https://octane.co/vehicle-selection/?partner=A8PrQQB&a=298&flow=long-prequal&appTheme=3a49337c5724d18079602a4ca5a91626  Favorite Gear:  Packtalk Edge ORV: Code 'octane' for 10% off https://cardosystems.rfrl.co/z8qy5  UTV Driver Videos:  UTV Reviews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn4C9HK06Jw&list=PLIl7O9RDWjgG-O6Dd1BWzponCVuvj3G92  5 Things We LOVE and HATE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYurJbSonDc&list=PLIl7O9RDWjgHOOiP1YKQb0LvejrQt8rea  Everything You Need to Know: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdKKsxgk3Yw&list=PLIl7O9RDWjgH0LQZEvxMVB6K_hnZjL69J  For more stories, reviews, and first-looks check out https://www.utvdriver.com/   Want to see even more shenanigans from the UTV Driver team? Give us a like and follow:  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/UTVdriver/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/utvdrivermagazine/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/utvdriver/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@utvdriver

Transcript

00:00Welcome to the UTV Driver Podcast. I'm editor-in-chief Zach Bowman and I'm

00:04joined by executive editor Aaron Richardson. Every other week we'll check

00:09in on the latest side-by-side and ATV news and let you know what we've been

00:12riding. Aaron, how's it going? It's going pretty good. You know, fall is in full

00:17swing here in Central Virginia so the leaves are changing. It's about to be

00:20hunting season. It's cold finally. I am stoked. Summer was long. It was a

00:26long summer. It was a very long summer and yeah, man, cooler weather in Virginia.

00:31You just got a new muzzleloader. It's whitetail season, bud. Yeah, we're

00:35going for it. It starts November 2nd so you'll pardon me if I'm a little

00:40distracted. All right, bud. Well, let's try and focus here. What's been

00:45going on in the news lately? Boy, it's been a busy couple of months. I think we

00:50wanted to start with the latest news from CF

00:54Moto and it's not a new side-by-side. It's not a new motorcycle. It's that they

00:59make it banned in the United States. Have you heard this? Yeah, yeah, man. Headline's

01:03been going left, right, and center about CF Moto running afoul of some new...

01:09I hesitate to even call it legislation. It's new communication rules?

01:14Like, what are we talking about? Yeah, so they're proposed rules that I think that

01:18the... Let's see. They're proposed rules from the Industry and Security Bureau

01:23that would basically limit Chinese companies collecting data from the US

01:29and that would mean that if you have a Chinese vehicle with a connected app,

01:33that's a problem because connected apps, by their nature, collect data from users.

01:38And I think... Was it on Reddit? There was somewhere in here that said even that the

01:43data was going to be collected and stored in China and you didn't have any

01:47say over whether that happened. So obviously, geopolitically, the world is a

01:52little weird right now and I think the US is just trying to figure out ways to

01:56basically have chain of custody over data and this is one way to do that.

02:02But because they're proposed rules, nothing has been hammered out yet as far

02:06as I can tell. So it's a little up in the air whether this means that CF Moto's,

02:12their motorcycles, and their new side-by-sides can't be sold here

02:15after 2027 or if there's a workaround. And I don't know what that looks like.

02:21Yeah, that's interesting. I wonder if this is part of... They're making a bunch of

02:24rules and regulations around TikTok specifically and I wonder if this is sort

02:28of like splash damage around that, right? There are other machines...

02:33I mean, even your television collects data on you, right? So I think we're seeing

02:38some things that are ranging far beyond social media and you wouldn't typically

02:43think that your side-by-side or ATV or motorcycle would be in that category.

02:48But here we are. I mean, I get why everybody is sort of spooked about this.

02:53I think the last time I saw CF Moto was the fourth largest side-by-side and ATV

02:59producer or manufacturer in the United States.

03:02They're huge.

03:03They're huge. They're a really big player. They used to be just sort of the brand

03:07that also showed up and now they're like an actual mover and shaker.

03:11So to see that this sort of legislation or these sort of rules impact those guys

03:16is a big deal. You know, I'm not sure it's as doom and gloom as everybody is

03:22making out, right? Like it seems like there are some pretty easy solves.

03:26Number one, the app could just store your data in the United States, right?

03:32Like that's a solve. Number two, they could just delete the app, right?

03:35That's also a solve. Yeah, I think, you know, we've seen a lot of headlines

03:42saying that CF Moto is getting banned and you're not going to be able to buy a CF

03:45Moto. That's not going to happen. I think what's way more likely is those guys are

03:49going to come up with a solution that actually works in the United States.

03:54Yeah, and I think the interesting thing is that this, you mentioned splash damage

03:58earlier, this feels like splash damage from maybe the automotive industry because

04:02we're focused on motorcycles and side-by-sides made by CF Moto,

04:06Kovei on the motorcycle side. And this legislation specifically targets vehicles.

04:12And so, you know, if you're talking about a car, that's a much bigger deal than like a

04:18little navigation app on a side-by-side. And so I think that's where probably this

04:23legislation is coming from and probably where these proposed rules are coming from.

04:28And yeah, it might have a much bigger effect on someone like Geely or whoever who's trying,

04:33who will eventually try and sell electric vehicles in this country.

04:35But yeah, if you're a side-by-side maker, I think the short term, well, in the short term,

04:41it's not going to mean anything because this doesn't take effect until 2027, I think.

04:45And in the long term, you're right. You'll be able to figure out a way to

04:49hook GPS up to this thing without a connected app. So yeah, I think it's,

04:54I'm hoping it's a tempest in a teapot, but we'll see. It's certainly making headlines and

05:00yeah, nothing is graven in stone yet. So we'll keep an eye on it and

05:06I don't know. That's all we can do, right?

05:08Yeah. I mean, it's interesting that you bring up vehicles, right? I saw a news piece that

05:13Ford CEO, Jim Farley went over to China to drive a bunch of new Chinese EVs. And I think the quote

05:20was they're blowing us out of the water, right? When it comes to how far ahead Chinese manufacturers

05:27are on EVs and say what you will about electric vehicles and what you feel about them, the push

05:35is coming. Those machines are coming for us. I do wonder if these rules are a sort of

05:41protectionism to sort of insulate American manufacturers from what all accounts are

05:48superior vehicles, right? Well, and in that case, should we be that terrified of it, right? Because

05:55all due respect to Chinese manufacturers, but I want Ford to survive if we have to pick one.

06:02And you're right. Europe has gone EV. The myth in the United States that we'll be able to avoid

06:10this for any long stretch of time, it's not a real thing. Europe's going this way and yeah,

06:19like you said, EVs are coming for us. So maybe it's that. Yeah. Well, we'll keep an eye on it.

06:23I mean, perfect segue to talk a little bit about what we've been writing lately. Speaking of EVs,

06:30you and I got to spend a little bit of time in the Ranger Kinetic. And the Ranger Kinetic is a

06:37perfect example of why EVs are coming for all of us, right? I don't care how you make it palatable

06:45to everybody. Everyone's going to love these things when you drive them. They just, I don't

06:50know. You forget real quick that they don't make a cool sound. But they kind of do make a cool

06:56sound though, right? They kind of make like a really awesome Jetson sound. I don't know. Look,

07:02I don't know how else to explain this. My garage is packed full of like pre-1980 carbureted

07:09American V8. I've got like two flatheads. When it comes to internal combustion, I am dyed in

07:16the freaking wool. I say that because it's difficult to overstate just how much better

07:22the Ranger Kinetic is than a regular Ranger. It's quiet. It's fast. It's insanely powerful.

07:29It's smooth. The transmission is excellent. There's a rubber belt, but it's not like the

07:35traditional CVT rubber belts, the cog belt transmission like they use in the Polaris

07:40Slingshot. So it's a lot tougher. I mean, it's a really, really compelling package.

07:46And we've got the small battery pack here. It should be good for about a 40 mile range,

07:50something like that. And it's been plenty. You know, we've had it out on the farm bopping around.

07:58I've been giving people joy rides here in the parking lot because the acceleration is insane.

08:04It's bananas. That was my first reaction to it. I hadn't seen one since they came out. And

08:10yeah, speaking of the noise again, when you hit the accelerator, when you bury the accelerator,

08:15there's a second where your brain hasn't caught up yet. And it takes a second until you feel that

08:20your stomach's dropping to realize you're actually going fast because there's no like

08:23noise or fanfare. It just takes off. The other thing I felt about it was that motor is way,

08:31it like punches way above the weight of the chassis, right? Absolutely. It's in the XP1000

08:37Ranger chassis and it's got more power than the XD1500 does, which is our favorite side by side

08:44of all time. And it's this ridiculously capable utility rig. But here's its little brother with

08:49this ridiculous EV powertrain in it. It makes so much sense if you've got a hobby farm or a

08:57medium-sized ranch or whatever. It's hunting season. It will make a huge difference getting

09:03out to your tree stand and getting stuff back from your tree stand. And yeah, really, there's

09:06nothing to be afraid of. You just have to try one, you know? I think that's going to be Polaris's

09:12biggest struggle, you know, because the price tag is substantial. Like they're not cheap,

09:17especially when you're looking at a comparable Ranger or comparable Defender. But I think the

09:22second you get somebody behind the wheel of the sucker, it all clicks, you know? And yeah,

09:27it's tough to shell out that amount of money right off the bat, but you're not paying for gasoline.

09:33You're not paying for oil changes. You know, you're not paying for the usual sort of maintenance that

09:38you have to deal with with an internal combustion engine. You know, will it wash out? Yeah,

09:44I think eventually it has to, right? You know, it just depends on how long you're going to hold

09:48the machine for. And how much you're going to use it. I think that's a big deal. So

09:54our local power sports dealer here started selling Polaris in March. And one of the

10:00salesmen there told me last week that they have been moving 15 Rangers a month, regardless of

10:06whether it's an XD 1500 or an XP 1000 or whatever, just 15 Rangers a month that whole time. However,

10:12they've sold like three kinetics. And part of it is because it looks like an XP 1000 and it costs

10:19what a base XD 1500 does by the time you're out the door. But what they've been doing is throwing

10:24it on a little yard trailer and taking it over to like James Madison University here in Virginia or

10:29the University of Virginia or any big institution that needs to have, that has security personnel

10:35running around or groundskeepers running around, people who are just constantly in motion and

10:40aren't going to use a truck. Well, in that case, it starts to make a whole lot more sense than like

10:45a diesel Kubota. Because if you're putting 15,000 or 20,000 miles a year, just running around a

10:50campus on a UTV, then an electric powertrain makes a whole lot of sense because yeah, it's 30 grand.

10:57But if you have three of them, you know, you don't have to have a fleet of techs. You don't have to

11:02have onsite diesel or gasoline. They're much cleaner burning. They don't make a weird smell

11:08when they don't have to sit there and idle. Or noise, you know, especially in that

11:13sort of situation where you're working on the campus or you're working around a hospital or

11:17something, you don't want something sitting outside of your classroom window or your hospital

11:21window sitting there idling or making UTV noises, right? You just want it to be quiet and fade into

11:26the background, which is what this thing does. And I mean, Polaris had an EV Ranger before this

11:31that I think was kind of aimed at that purpose, but it was lead acid battery and it wasn't...

11:35It was a golf cart.

11:38Right. It wasn't appealing to anyone who wasn't in the procurement office of a ground,

11:42you know, of a facilities shop at a university. And this is appealing to people. And anyway,

11:47the salesman was saying they're having pretty good success talking to procurement offices about it

11:54and making the case for it. So I think it might be kind of a slow burn, you know, where it's not,

12:00you don't sell a million of them off the bat, but it's a proof of concept at the very least.

12:05Yeah. Well, and deeply potent. I mean, we've been using it around the shop here to pull,

12:11you know, we've got a buddy who brought over his trail Cherokee, his XJ Cherokee, right? The thing's

12:17on 33s and, you know, it's twin locked and, you know, it's been derelict for like 10 years. And

12:24we went out to start it the other day and the starter died. So we just hooked it behind the

12:27kinetic and really yanked it around the yard and it was no problem whatsoever. Yeah. It does make

12:33me really excited for what's coming down the pike because you know, they're going to put that

12:39driveline in a racer at some point, right? They have to, they have to. I mean, that was my only

12:45like real criticism of it is it's too fast. Like that's not. Yeah. You're going to go through rear

12:51tires. The Ranger is a great platform for a lot of stuff going real fast is not like it's strong

13:00suit. It will do it. But like, you know, we haven't stuck the V box on this thing, but my, the butt

13:06dino says it's as fast to 35 or 40 as our Mavar is like, it's, it's properly quick because there's

13:12no, there's no delay of any kind. Yeah. Instant power. Even the Mavar with its gear transmission

13:19and anti-lag and all that kind of stuff. Like there's still a, like, wait for it. And then it

13:25hooks up this thing. Just let us think it's full punch it. Chewy. We were on wet grass and it was

13:31like, yeah, just it's, it's magnificent. I want one. I don't, you know, I don't have enough property

13:39really for like a utility rig, but I want one, you know? Yeah, absolutely. Great. Well, speaking

13:45of Razor, you got to drive the updated Pro-R or something, right? Yes, I did. Yes, I did. And it was

13:52great. Polaris did an excellent job getting it a little bit more upmarket. Basically

13:59the TLDR is that it's a, it's a mid-cycle refresh, right? Okay. Functional changes are

14:05pretty limited. On the Pro-R itself, they strengthened the shift cables so that like

14:10really clunky Polaris shifter that we always complain about is gone. It's gone. Capital G gone.

14:18Yeah. Yeah. It's not, now it's not the shifter in the Ranger XD 1500. It's not that buttery and it

14:25still isn't as good as the shifter in the Maverick R, but that's apples to oranges, right? The shifter

14:30in the Maverick R is remarkably good. Yeah. Just period. And especially for a side-by-side. So

14:37the Pro-R still lags behind in that respect, but like you can move it with one hand and it doesn't

14:42do the thing where, you know, they used to sit between gears and like it was kind of hard. There

14:48wasn't like a satisfying clunk when you put it in high or low. You just kind of had to guess and

14:53made this terrible noise if you missed. That's gone. That's only on the Pro-R. The Pro-XP and the

15:00Pro-S, which is what the Turbo-R, which is now the Turbo-R, those have the same shift cables that

15:05they had last year. The complaints stand. Why did they, why? I could not get a Polaris engineer to

15:14tell me. I didn't push them super hard on it. I wonder if it's like a supply issue, like they can

15:20only get so many or what? That's bizarre. Well, I mean, it's a different drivetrain. Yeah. Like,

15:25I mean, the shifter. Is it a different transmission though? Yeah. Yeah, I guess it must be. Yeah,

15:30the four-cylinder versus the... Yeah, the four-cylinder has a different... So, I mean,

15:34I don't know if it's related to that. I don't know if it's related to...

15:37I mean, I don't have access to their market research for a very good reason, but like...

15:44Drunk with power. Yeah. I wonder if they discovered that Pro-R buyers who were paying

15:5040-whatever thousand dollars for a rig had complained about it or they focus grouped it

15:55and they cared about it and people who were likely Pro-S or Razor XP, Pro-XP buyers didn't

16:02care as much. I don't know what it was, but like they didn't do it. But what they did do,

16:06everything else pretty much carries over. So, the Pro-R got a complete facelift. They brought

16:13back the fang lights, the little cool LEDs that bracket the grill that the old Razors had,

16:19just sharpened up the front end and they put these nostrils above the headlights.

16:24And what they do is they're just positive air pressure into the cabin. So, it's not like a

16:30helmet pumper and it's not air conditioning, but as you're going along, these things are

16:35sucking in... These vents are sucking in air and they blow it out by your feet.

16:39You can aim the vent and they were touting it as sort of like moving air for you, but really what

16:47it did... We were in Oregon dunes, so there's sand everywhere. And what it did was just blow the sand

16:52out the rig. So, if you drive at Glamis and you don't have positive air pressure coming to the

16:57cabin, you're going to have a lap full of sand. Everything's going to be sandy. And when we stopped,

17:02there were just a few grains here and there in the interior, but otherwise nothing. So,

17:06that was super cool. The interior is still not what we were asking for, unfortunately.

17:14They updated the dash, right? I think that's the big news.

17:17Yeah, it has a big T-bar looking thing on it that is body color. So, most of it is black plastic

17:25and now there's a big semi-gloss plastic piece in the middle that runs up the console and up

17:31the dashboard. And if you have a black or gray rig, then the interior is just solid black plastic

17:37like it was before, right? If you have an orange rig, one of our... I think it was the Pro XP I

17:43drove was blue and orange. And so, it had this massive orange stripe up the inside of the

17:49interior, which was honestly a little distracting. So, I think if you have a blue rig and there's

17:54a neutral color offsetting the interior, it gives you a nice contrast. If you have an orange rig,

18:00suddenly there's a blaze orange piece of plastic in your field of vision. And if you have a black

18:05rig, no change. Interesting. The change that really worked well on all of them was that they

18:13took the seat cushions from the Expedition, their overlanding rig, and they put it in all three of

18:20them. And I used to say that if you don't notice the seats, they're super comfortable. And in the

18:26last rig, you never noticed the seats, never thought about them, you were always where you

18:29wanted to be. These are so good that you notice how comfortable you are. It goes back the other

18:33way. You're like, ooh, my buns. Right. And they're not as bolstery as the old ones were. But we were

18:43throwing it through whoops at 55-60 and I was where I wanted to be. Even in the rig with just

18:50across your shoulder belt, you're in there. And then underneath, it's the Pro-R. It still has 225

19:01horsepower. Still a Ripper. Yep. Even the Mav-R, the Pro-R still spanks the K&M when you stand on

19:09it because it's a huge four-cylinder. Instant torque. You're not waiting on a turbo. Yeah. And

19:15the nice thing about a CVT is it's always in the power band. It's never lugging, ever. So if you

19:23want to punch it chewy, you yard on the throttle and that thing is gone. There's no wait for the

19:30turbo to spool up and then it plasters you in the seat. It's like a muscle car. That was excellent.

19:37We had the previous generation, the last Pro-R4 and our Mav-R up at Windrock not too long ago.

19:44I mean, we put out a video. You can check that out over our YouTube channel. And I think we've

19:50spent so much time in the Mav-R because we've got a long-termer that we just sort of ride off the

19:55Pro-R. But the truth is they're pretty neck and neck in terms of performance. They're right on

20:01top of each other. And it really boils down to how you like to ride and what sort of machine

20:07scratches your itches, right? Yep. And I think I said this in the video about comparing the two,

20:13but the Maverick R is a sharper tool. Like if I was going desert racing, if I was going to go

20:19run the Nora 1000 tomorrow, I would take the Maverick R. Sorry. No question. And sorry,

20:24Polaris, put me in a Pro-R factory if you want me to change my mind. But

20:29if you want to go... For an extra $60,000, right? No big deal. Exactly. But if you want to go ripping

20:35across the desert with your family or you are not Dustin Jones, this thing has a CVT. It's super

20:43easy to drive. The power steering is almost over-assisted. The brakes are great. The stereo

20:49works. Everything's good and it's super comfortable. So you can put your grandma in it or

20:53you can put Caden McEachern in it and they're both going to have a good time.

20:58That's the takeaway here. I think we went into this going, did Polaris fix the Pro-R? Because

21:04there were certain things that it lagged behind the Maverick R doing. And I came away with,

21:08they didn't really need to. Yeah. They just polished it up a little bit. Yeah. They made

21:11it better and made it more comfortable and that's what it needed. So yeah. Okay. Pricing,

21:19I think, is around the same that it was. It's competitive with the Maverick R.

21:24I spent some time trying to survive in British Columbia. Yes. Tell us about that. What were you,

21:32so you raced a train? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With an ATV. Yeah. So I don't know if you heard,

21:39Can-Am came out with an all-new Outlander 850 and 1000. And they sort of did what they did

21:47with the 500 and 700, which is, it's the same engine, just with a different power output. So

21:52a 999 CC V-twin in 1000 trim, it makes 101 horsepower. In 850 trim, it makes like almost 90.

22:02Right. So like, so did they just moon tune one of them? A hundred percent, a hundred percent. But

22:07even the, even the moon tuned one feels like entirely usable. The power band is like,

22:13this nice gentle curve. So like, it's not like nothing, nothing, whack. It's like, you know,

22:18if you want full go, you've got to really get into it and hold on tight. And it just keeps

22:23building and building and building. And it's like absolute steam train feeling. They had us out to

22:31CKMP, which is a really cool off-road park up there. And part of the property runs along beside

22:38a train. And we had, let's call it a little bit better than a quarter of a mile to really stretch

22:42this thing's legs. And at some point there was a passenger train coming along and I was racing

22:46the train and beat the train because this sucker will run 90 miles an hour. And keep in mind,

22:53this is not a sport quad. This is a, this is like a utility machine. You know, they're like,

22:58oh yeah. Tell me how much it weighs. It's a thousand pounds. It weighs a thousand pounds.

23:03They said it's quicker to 60. Both of them are quicker to 60 than the Sportsman 1000, XP1000,

23:11Polaris. Yeah. Wait, both of them. Both of them. So even the 850 is faster than the Polaris 1000.

23:20Zero to 60 is like five seconds, somewhere around there. What are we doing here, folks?

23:26We're going to the moon, Bob. We're going to the moon.

23:28It sounds amazing. It looked pretty cool. It sounded amazing. How did it handle on a trail?

23:32I mean, that's a humongous rig. A thousand pounds? Yeah. I will be entirely honest with you. I was a

23:39little intimidated going into this thing because like, yeah, you know, it's, you're just riding.

23:45It's, you ever seen those videos online of like that old, that old seventies TV show where the

23:50guy just rides a Buffalo around? Like it was that crazy. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's,

23:56it felt exactly like that. You get on it and you're like, this is, this is a lot. This is big.

24:02But then you start using it and it does the thing where like you, you had an adventure bike for a

24:07little while, right? You had like a KTM 950. It's the same thing where you get on it and you're

24:11like, no, this doesn't, this doesn't go off road. Sorry. This isn't what this is. And the second

24:15you start using it, all of that just vanishes out of your head. And you're like, I'm the fastest

24:19monkey on the planet. How do they do that? I don't know. I don't know. Well, the, the, so we,

24:24we, we wrote two versions. We wrote a sort of a base eight 50, which has just like regular

24:30socks, shocks, you know, some coilovers. And then we ran out, we're owed the XTP 1000,

24:37our canyons frigging number of letter alphabets who've always cracks me up. But anyway,

24:43that machine different in a lot of ways. So all, all one thousands get four disc brakes,

24:48the eight fifties get three disc brakes. All one thousands also get a front sway bar.

24:54XTP trim gets you Fox QS three piggyback shocks. No joke. Yeah. So like it's got serious handling

25:03hardware on it. And you know, when you were really ringing this thing's neck, when you were

25:08nine or 10 tenths, you feel it like it's a, it's a massive difference in how planted and

25:13stable this thing feels. Most of the time, you know, yeah, there are idiots like me who are

25:20going to be out there buying this thing and just going as hard as they possibly can. I think most

25:25people are going to be just fine with the eight 50, because as I said before, it's already faster

25:29than the sports one 1000. And you know, you don't really give up that much in handling under normal

25:36circumstances, I would say up to like six tenths, power steering's excellent. It's a selectable mode

25:43on DPS models, which is everything but the absolute base base rig. So you know,

25:48you're really don't feel the weight of this thing as insane as that sounds.

25:54I don't get that because like, you call me a liar. Maybe, but mostly I'm saying it's,

26:03it sounds very much like a sit on top side by side. Yeah, doesn't sound like something

26:09that should work. And you're telling me it does. And I, I don't know, I, the last ATV I rode,

26:17I felt like, yeah, okay, I can see up to, like you said, up to six tenths, I can see this thing

26:23being great. But like, it didn't change my mind when I got on the trail, you know, I sat on it,

26:28I was like, Oh, this thing's big. And then we took it out on a trail. And I was like,

26:33Oh, this thing's still big. Like, it's not. Yeah, I mean, running a quad is definitely

26:38a different thing. Like, you've got to trust the machine a lot more. That said, I did

26:44obliterate a stump, I sent a stump to Valhalla, just, you know, just rode right through it.

26:52Probably about, you know, dinner plate size, just obliterated it. Rig didn't care. You know,

26:58I cared. You did me right off the machine. But you know,

27:03machine was fine. Machine was fine. Yeah, right. It was fine. I was fine. Eventually,

27:07that's the important part. Yeah, I don't know what to tell you, man. They, it's just,

27:12they are a lot of fun. And they also, it's a smaller footprint, even this thing, which is,

27:18you know, one of the biggest ones out there, one of the heaviest ones out there,

27:21it still has a much smaller footprint than even the smallest of side by sides. So you don't really

27:27need a trail, you can just go weave your way through the woods and get way the back way back

27:32in there. I mean, you're talking about going hunting later, you know, get to a tree stand,

27:36get to a place where nobody else is, only an ATV can do that. Yeah, they really make a huge

27:41amount of sense for that. But I'm curious, the last time I reviewed an ATV, I was shocked by

27:49how expensive it was. It wasn't nearly as cool as either of these by like a lot. It wasn't as fast,

27:56it wasn't as accomplished, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, she's not cheap. You know, the 1000,

28:03the XP 1000 R that we were on is like 16.5, somewhere around there. That's before taxes,

28:09before destination before any of that, you know, before you start bolting the accessory catalog to

28:13it. Yeah. And there are as many accessories as you would want to throw up one of these things. I

28:18think I think Can-Am said they're over 90 that carry over from the previous Outlander bananas,

28:24as well as the new link system stuff. So the gas caddy, the chainsaw holder for upfront,

28:31big boxes, stereo, you name it. And all that stuff is rad, but also spendy. Like it's all

28:38stuff you want. So yeah, really, you know, by the time you get a gas caddy, or maybe a gun

28:44cubby or whatever, what are you looking at? Like 18 probably at the time destinations factored in

28:50destination taxes. Absolutely. So it's still cheaper than most side by sides.

28:55Yeah, you know, it's funny, I was looking at the first razor, the first razor was lighter and had

29:00less power than this quad. We've come full circle boys. Well, that was like eight years ago,

29:11right? It wasn't 50 years ago. Right. It was yesterday. Yeah, it was within the memory of

29:18like sixth graders that that was true. Okay, so what about the 850, the everyman side by side,

29:24like how much? You know, I loved it. I think I think they did us a little bit of a disservice

29:28because the way the ride was set up, they had us ride the 1000 first and then the 850. And that's

29:35always tough to go from like the Gucci model to like the plain Jane. Sure. But you know, you're,

29:40I think you're starting somewhere around 11 or 12. You know, so that's why you look man,

29:46if I were doing it, yeah, the XDP is super sexy with its orange accents and it's Fox shocks and

29:52all this nonsense. Just just get a plain Jane model and you'll have an absolute blast and you'll

29:58still be faster than most of your buddies on their quads. So who cares? And tires are smaller,

30:02thus cheaper. And you know, it's all that stuff, right? So if you get DPS and like a couple

30:10accessories, you're looking at 14, 15 range probably by the time you're at the door. Yeah.

30:14Okay. I mean, that's a pile, but compared to 16, it's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Speaking with

30:22of Can-Ams, we're almost out of time here, but we have a long-term Maverick R in the shop. Yeah.

30:30And a perennial favorite. You know, I love it dearly. Except for last week. Why don't you

30:37tell us what happened last week? Last week, it kind of weed on my shoes and that's never a good,

30:44that's never a good feeling. And we had a bunch of people from corporate down and we were going

30:48to lead a ride. And of course, I'm very excited to show off the Maverick R because here as you

30:52should be. The crown jewel of side-by-sideness. And we back it off the trailer, a little bit of

30:58a stumble coming off the trailer. That's weird. That's weird. Line everybody up. We had 30 people.

31:02We had like 15 rigs in a line out of Windrock Park. I hop in with my boss, punch the key to

31:09the starter on the Maverick R and it says, not today, my friend, just will not start. Just

31:15full out refuses to start. Just won't do it. So we just had, we had to pivot. We just left it there

31:20in the parking lot with the keys in it because good luck, you know, and it's got an automatic

31:26immobilizer. Apparently it does. Yeah. So we had to winch it back up onto the trailer after the

31:31ride was done, got it back to the shop. And I think what would have, what had happened.

31:36So we'd been moving this machine around a bunch in the shop and that's, that's never great for

31:42any internal combustion engine. That's definitely not great for a high strung 999 CC turbocharged

31:48triple with 240 horsepower. Right. So a startup doesn't quite get warm, shut off. Right. It's

31:54happened like four or five times we found the plugs. So, yeah, which, you know, not great.

32:00Number one the rigs got like 200 hours on it somewhere around there. Right. There's probably

32:06a better way to do this, but I haven't figured it out to replace the plugs. I had to pull the

32:11intercooler off, which meant removing most of the rear body work. So I just spent like a day

32:17with my hand and a bucket of scissors basically, because everything is, everything is razor sharp

32:22back there. Got them all out, threw them back in. She starts right up. She's happy as can be.

32:27Great. So, so, you know, it's an air to air intercooler, right? So you didn't have to like

32:31drain all the coolant and all that jazz. No, no, no. Okay. But still, still, still, it was like,

32:37I, I guess it makes sense. Right. It's going to run extra rich on startup because it's trying to

32:43warm up and it's, you know, and, and then it's going to run rich anyway, because it's a turbo

32:49charge mill. It needs as much fuel as it can get. So I guess it makes sense that it sat there and

32:54fouled the plug, but yeah, 200 hours. Yeah. It was a definite bummer, but you know, we got,

32:59got it ironed out and now she's got new plugs and a fresh oil change. Cause why not? Yeah. Yeah.

33:04Cause you just dumped a bunch of gas into the oil. Yeah. Yeah. So she's, she's back in action.

33:12Nothing terminal. And the lesson here is warm it up and drive the pants off it instead of like,

33:17maybe we just push it around. Yeah. The electric ranger drag it around. Yeah. It wants a caning.

33:24It absolutely wants a caning. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, as, as well, it should, that's,

33:28that's what it's for. All right. That's a wrap for this week as always have fun and ride safe.

33:34If you enjoyed this podcast, be sure to like, and subscribe. You can also check us out over

33:38at UTV driver.com where we have news reviews, buyer's guides galleries, five days a week.

33:44Finally, you can hit us up on social media. We're on all the usual channels and we want to see

33:49what you're riding. Want to hear from you. UTV driver is proudly owned by Octane Lending. When

33:54it comes time to buy your next side-by-side ATV or motorcycle finance, your purchase with

33:59Octane Lending. We'll see you next time.

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