The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) released an international report that ranked Taiwanese students highly in math and natural sciences. However, this performance comes at the same time as a noted rise in student mental health crises within Taiwan, with more students reporting experiences of stress and anxiety.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, presenter Betty Chen sits down with Kate Hsu, the founder of Design for Change Taiwan (DFC Taiwan), a nonprofit organization that trains teachers to provide a hands-on learning experience. We first zoom out on Taiwan’s current state of education, then zoom in to look at how DFC’s projects can change student confidence for the better.
On this episode of Zoom In Zoom Out, presenter Betty Chen sits down with Kate Hsu, the founder of Design for Change Taiwan (DFC Taiwan), a nonprofit organization that trains teachers to provide a hands-on learning experience. We first zoom out on Taiwan’s current state of education, then zoom in to look at how DFC’s projects can change student confidence for the better.
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00:00Welcome to Zoom In Zoom Out, your global look at news from Taiwan.
00:17I'm Betty Chien.
00:18Today, we will talk about the students and the education system in Taiwan.
00:23Students in Taiwan usually scores very highly in mathematics and natural sciences compared
00:27to students from other countries.
00:30That's according to the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development or OECD.
00:35But this performance is accompanied by a noted rise in student mental health crises, with
00:41more students reporting experiences of stress and anxiety.
00:45Today, to discuss the different possibilities of education in Taiwan, we are joined by Ms.
00:50Kay Hsu, founder of Design for Change Taiwan.
00:54So DFC, Design for Change, is a global network of educators that focuses on empowering children
01:00to think outside of the classroom.
01:03Kate, welcome to the show.
01:04Hi, Betty.
01:05Hi, everybody.
01:06Before we talk about your work, let's zoom out a bit.
01:09We take a look at the overall education landscape in Taiwan.
01:13How do you describe the education style here in Taiwan?
01:17Okay, so one thing that hasn't changed since I was a student until now is the assessment
01:23system that is focusing solely on the academic achievements of students.
01:29And while I'm not saying that tests aren't, like, all bad, but we shouldn't focus on or
01:36rely on solely about the academic results to define the students' growth and performances
01:44throughout their life as a student.
01:46You know, students and parents and teachers, sometimes everyone together, we have this
01:52idea that if we have higher scores, it means that we have a higher chance to succeed in
01:59life.
02:00It's less likely to become a loser, less likely to fail.
02:04But then this, I would describe this as a pandemic, because the culture or this feeling
02:12that we have is that students and teachers, they're both afraid to fail.
02:17And they're both afraid to try new things, because trying new things means that you could,
02:21you might fail.
02:23And this will result in the students losing appetite in learning, losing motivation in
02:31discovering new things.
02:33That's such a pity.
02:34We understand that sometimes the students in Taiwan, like what you said, they're afraid
02:38of trying, they're afraid of failures.
02:40And how does that impact a student?
02:42Okay, well, I would like to quote this, again, from OECD, this assessment.
02:48It's called the Program for International Student Assessment, PISA.
02:52And it's a global assessment that measures 15-year-olds' ability to use their reading,
02:57mathematics, and science knowledge and skills to meet real-life challenges.
03:02And in PISA, the results in 2018, the Taiwanese students actually outperformed the world in
03:08many areas, such as science.
03:12But there's one dimension that is not academic, but Taiwanese students had the highest scores.
03:19That is the fear of failure.
03:21Fear of failure.
03:22Yeah.
03:23So the questions that were asked to students were, first, when I'm failing, I worry about
03:27what others think of me, you see, the perceptions.
03:31When I'm failing, I'm afraid that I might not have enough talent, self-doubt.
03:37When I'm failing, this makes me doubt my plans for the future.
03:40We see this mindset of always wanting to succeed, always wanting to maintain this high level
03:46of achievement, generate this deep-rooted fear from within.
03:52So we generally see two types of reactions from students.
03:56One is that students, they become this highly competitive, always study for, yeah, I'm the
04:03best.
04:04I'm always studying because I want good grades, and I only want good grades.
04:09And I study for-
04:10Nothing else matters.
04:11Yeah.
04:12So, and I study for the grades.
04:14The second group of students is that they give up altogether.
04:18So like I said, no appetite, because when you're studying, doesn't really reflect.
04:25And well, if you try hard enough, but you never get good grades, then yeah, you probably
04:32will lose all the motivation and give up altogether.
04:34That's what we're seeing here.
04:36Talking about motivation, also the fear of failure.
04:39I think that affects not just the students, but also probably teachers and parents.
04:44How have their, say, mentality changed, or are they, they're the same in your observation?
04:49Well, I think gradually, of course, over the decades, parents and teachers are seeing,
04:55I would say, horrible stories, such as students wanted to end their lives because, yeah, they
05:03wanted to give up, whether they are escaping into the digital world, or they are really
05:12just logging off from the real world.
05:15Okay, so both are horrible stories.
05:19And I think parents and teachers are wanting to making, are trying to make a difference.
05:25But the society, I think, is still generally having this high pressure over and having
05:33this high connection between grades and your future.
05:38So still, we're trying our best to decouple the connections.
05:42Exactly.
05:47Now, I'm really eager to hear about your personal experience.
05:51So let's zoom in on you.
05:53I understand that originally, you went to a very good university, and you got a very
05:58good teaching job in one of the best high schools in Taiwan, but then you quit your
06:02job and become the founder of this organization.
06:06What happened?
06:07What happened?
06:08I was a high school teacher, just like high school teachers, right?
06:12I think what happened was, there's this tragedy that happened to my student.
06:19One of my students was saying how his friend was, well, decided to commit suicide because
06:31his grades were not high enough.
06:33And my students actually told me, saying that he thinks he should be the one who ends his
06:40life.
06:41No way.
06:42His grades were much lower.
06:43Just because of the scores.
06:45Yes.
06:46I was in shock, actually, and I was very sad because I didn't set out to be a teacher that
06:52wants my students to view grades as everything.
06:57But it still happened.
06:58I didn't know what happened.
07:02Of course, it was devastating for me.
07:04And I know I shouldn't be, I couldn't be, the only teacher in the world that wanted
07:11to change this.
07:12So I started to look for solutions.
07:16And I found Kiran Birasethi, who is the founder of Design for Change in India.
07:22So I watched her TED Talk and I was so inspired by her.
07:26So I started doing and implementing FITS in my class, and all of my students loved it.
07:34Tell us, what is this organization?
07:36What does DFC do?
07:38So DFC promotes this idea globally.
07:41It's called FITS, Feel, Imagine, Do, and Share.
07:45And it's based on design thinking.
07:47So feel, we ask the students to feel what bothers them, what problems that they feel.
07:52And then imagine, what could we do to solve them?
07:55What's the best case scenario if the problem goes away?
07:58And then have a plan.
08:00Go out and do it.
08:02And then share your journey.
08:04Whether you successfully tackle the problem or that you failed, it's fine.
08:10So the stories of change is actually what you have learned along the way.
08:16So we're seeing students feeling really, really confident about themselves.
08:22Because during the process, they have been able to apply what they have learned in school,
08:28and they have gained their motivation to learn, right?
08:32Because they have successfully applied what they have learned.
08:34And also, during the process of little sense of achievements, they're able to gain the
08:41confidence of learning and of learning new things.
08:47And in the process, they have learned to say, I can.
08:50I can try new things.
08:52I can learn new things.
08:54And I think this goes really well with the fundamental philosophy of DFC, which is every
09:02child can.
09:03We believe that they can.
09:04Actually, I have participated in some of the DFC projects, and that's really fun.
09:10Tell us, what are some of the most impressive or interesting projects in your opinion?
09:15Okay, so I have to talk about the story that we're bringing to Dubai to the Be the Change
09:21celebration, the global conference that every year we participate in.
09:26So this story is coming out from the 151 stories of change that we gather from Taiwan
09:33this year.
09:34And this particular story is from Taichung Jiangong Elementary School.
09:39These students, they actually spent 10 years trying to, yes.
09:44So they pass on the torch every single year for the students to really guard the historical
09:52sites near their school.
09:53So due to the fast urbanizations, Taichung City, the students have found that a lot of
09:59historical sites are either being demolished or just simply being forgotten.
10:04But they wanted to protect one of the historical sites that is nearly 100 years old.
10:10It's called Zhao'an Hall near their school.
10:13And so what they have done, they took actions.
10:16Over the years, the students have collected information, interviewed the building's owners,
10:21and its city councilors, created a tourism map of the area around the sites, and developed
10:28creative products to sell and make profits to donate to the projects to preserve that
10:34site.
10:36And in the end, their efforts have successfully led to Zhao'an Hall being designated as the
10:42Municipal Heritage Sites.
10:44That's wonderful.
10:45Yeah, that's wonderful.
10:46And this year, they have done something really cool.
10:49It's called the Sustainable Hometown Treasure Hunt.
10:52So it's a series of games and activities.
10:55To bring in more people.
10:57Exactly.
10:58They wanted to make sure the local citizens also know more about Zhao'an Hall.
11:03The one thing I found was the highlight.
11:05They also engaged internationally with students from around the world.
11:12For example, they have interacted with students from India to learn from them, to say, hey,
11:19what did you do to preserve Taj Mahal?
11:22And what can we learn from you?
11:24I understand that in your project, or in DFC, you call these children, whether it's elementary
11:29all the way to high school students, you call them superheroes.
11:33And you believe that, yes, they can.
11:35They can make changes.
11:37So what will be your goal for DFC Taiwan?
11:41Throughout the years, we have found that actually, we have been immersing in educational environment
11:51for a long time.
11:52And then we found that if we want to make sustainable changes, actually, we have to
11:58change the mindset of the teachers, instead of directly interacting with the students.
12:04DFC Taiwan wants to play the role to form this Asia-Pacific circle that we can bring
12:12our teachers' know-how and their knowledge to share with the teachers that have similar,
12:19I would say, similar educational context.
12:22How do we all together eliminate the high academic pressure that our students, all of
12:28our students are facing?
12:30And how do we make our education environment better together?
12:33Yeah, so that's our DFC Taiwan's role in the end.
12:37So because we wanted to do that, so five years ago, we started to do two projects.
12:43One of them is called the C-Teacher Program.
12:45We offer various FITs, tools and lesson plans for teachers.
12:52And we have certified, since then, 43 C-teachers, okay, in Taiwan, especially in the second
13:01project, which is the ICANN School Incubation Program.
13:04DFC Taiwan team, along with these C-teachers, we dive into these schools for a year and
13:12a half and up to two years, yeah, to tailor-made a curriculum just for that particular school.
13:20So all the students in that school will go through DFC, go through the FITs process.
13:25And right now we have 10 ICANN schools in Taiwan.
13:29So we're very grateful.
13:31And we're really happy that if DFC Taiwan could be the hub, we could share more knowledge
13:38and skills that the Taiwan educators have.
13:43Thank you so much.
13:44I can definitely feel your passion.
13:46And it's not just about providing the opportunity for students, but also, just like what you
13:51said, it's an incubation for the teachers.
13:53And also we invite the parents to participate.
13:56Thank you so much, Kate.
13:57So that's all the time we have for today.
13:59Thank you so much.
14:00Thank you, Betty.
14:01So that's all the time we have for today.
14:03Thank you for watching Zoom In Zoom Out.
14:05If you would like to watch more stories from Taiwan Plus News, feel free to visit our social
14:09media.
14:10Take care and see you next time.
14:12Bye-bye.
14:13Bye-bye.
14:42Bye-bye.