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00:00Let's look now on the program about the impact that Trump's return to power could have
00:05elsewhere in the world, starting in the Middle East. Now, Trump has a long history of support
00:10for Israel, which has conducted a devastating year-long war in Gaza.
00:16Our first report on this by Morgan Eyre.
00:20As President-elect Donald Trump took to the stage to officially declare his victory,
00:25he made a promise to put an end to conflict around the world.
00:30They said he will start a war. I'm not going to start a war. I'm going to stop wars.
00:34This would include the war in Gaza. For these Palestinians,
00:38a new leader in the White House will not change their situation.
00:44Whether it is Trump or another president, nothing will change for the Palestinian issue.
00:48Unfortunately, Trump and the others support the Zionists.
00:55I see that nothing will change for us from the US presidents or other world leaders.
01:00The last of the current US presidents are all colonizers and are against us.
01:05Hezbollah's leader also shared their view that despite a new incoming administration,
01:10US policy will remain the same.
01:15We do not rely on the American elections, whether Harris wins or Trump wins.
01:19It means nothing to us. No, we will rely on the battlefield.
01:25However, a Trump victory is being seen in Israel as a positive development.
01:30Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was one of the first leaders to congratulate Trump on his win,
01:35calling it history's greatest comeback and a recommitment to American-Israeli relations.
01:42During his first presidency, Donald Trump introduced a number of pro-Israeli policies,
01:48such as the recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel.
01:52Under the Trump administration, Israel normalized its relations with several Arab countries.
01:57These were in part an attempt to counter the influence of Iran in the region.
02:02Despite his rhetoric,
02:03the president-elect has not provided details on how he would restore peace to the Middle East.
02:09Well, let's speak to Joe Macron on the program live now.
02:12He's a fellow with the Wilson Center's Middle East program.
02:17Hello to you and thanks for joining us.
02:21Let's be blunt about this. Is the win by Donald Trump also a win for Benjamin Netanyahu
02:28and a disaster for the Palestinians in Gaza?
02:33I mean, not necessarily. We cannot jump to conclusions quickly. But yeah, definitely.
02:37If you want to compare to his first term, where he basically
02:41gave the Golan Heights as a handout for Israel and Netanyahu, this is why they are concerned.
02:49But given what the Biden administration did and the silence in Gaza and otherwise,
02:55some people believe that maybe this is the second term of Trump.
02:59He's not going to be thinking about re-election and the new dynamics.
03:05Now he wants to give the impression that he's the president who ended the war.
03:09I think both the wars in Gaza and Lebanon are technically over.
03:15Now they are negotiating basically by fire.
03:18So Netanyahu preferred to sell this end of conflict to Netanyahu more than to Trump than Biden.
03:28But I think Netanyahu, I think Trump now, he has different calculation.
03:34He never forget that Netanyahu disregarded him for months when he was weak, when he was under
03:42investigation and everything. So I think the dynamic of the relation is not as strong as
03:46before. But definitely, I mean, Netanyahu sees an opportunity. But the dynamics have
03:52changed compared to four years ago. You say that the wars in Lebanon in
03:57your analysis and in Gaza are sort of approaching an end of some description.
04:04Does that mean, though, that with Trump coming into power in Washington,
04:08any kind of peace deal will be won effectively on Netanyahu's terms?
04:14I think I always argue that making like a peace deal now, it's going to just
04:22complicate the ceasefire. What's needed now, both in Gaza and Lebanon,
04:27a certain period of ceasefire and Gaza exchange of the hostages. And based on that,
04:33having like a transition period where there's enough time and space and calmer minds to
04:39basically have a long-term solution. The Biden administration made this mistake and basically
04:45complicated both the long-term solution and the ceasefire. Now on both fronts, I think both sides,
04:52the Israelis have no more targets to attack. Now they are just like trying to let time pass.
05:01And Hezbollah, for example, and Hamas, they are trying to use the battlefield to improve the
05:05negotiation position. So this is a vicious cycle going on for months now. And maybe a new
05:13administration now, because Biden, he has no willingness to do so until the last weeks only.
05:19So maybe Trump now can basically try to put this end using his relation with the Arab
05:27regimes and Israel maybe to, we'll see. It's going to be a big test for him.
05:32Indeed. And just on his relationship with Arab governments, at the end of Trump's last
05:37administration, he did have this role in normalising of relations between a number
05:42of Arab countries and Israel. That was the Abraham Accords. Do you think there'll be
05:47fresh focus on that when Trump comes back to power, particularly perhaps with Saudi Arabia?
05:54I mean, we have to remember the Gaza war started indirectly as a reaction to those Abraham Accords
06:01who felt, the Palestinians felt that the Arabs sold them basically to Trump without reaching
06:06a two-state solution. So now Saudi Arabia, because of what's happening in Gaza, is more cautious not
06:12to sign any normalisation with Israel before having at least some sort of two-state solution.
06:20So I think the Saudis now have a different calculation. They are not as much as obsessed
06:25with Iran as four years ago. Now they have good terms with Iran. They have a priority also on
06:30some sort of Palestinian recognition of a state before they start normalisation. So this is going
06:35to be as a pressure maybe on Trump moving forward. But the problem is Arab countries,
06:41they don't have a clear vision of what they want and it's going to be difficult basically
06:46if they don't have a clear vision.
06:48Just a final question for you. What do you think Trump's strategy will be when it comes to Iran?
06:57Well, that's the biggest big question now. We have no idea. He didn't give any indications.
07:03The last campaign he was attacking Iran on every day. Now he's been silent.
07:07There was some indication that he might be able to explore. The Iranians are definitely ready.
07:14Their president was elected recently, has a clear agenda of advancing talks.
07:20If he wants to resolve Gaza and Lebanon, he has to have some sort of indirect talks with Iran to
07:25basically help that. So if he chooses to confront Iran, the dynamics are going to be different
07:33because he's going to try to weaken Iran and Iran's already weakened with the proxies in Gaza
07:40and Lebanon basically retreated. But I think this is going to define his vision,
07:45his policy in the Middle East. We will not see his makeup of the cabinet before we assess.
07:51But I don't think he's going to be as confrontational with Iran as four years ago.
07:55He has a different approach now to the conflict with Iran.
08:00Joe Macron talking to us live there. Thank you very much indeed.