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00:00Joining us, he was Lebanon's prime minister the last time Israel and Hezbollah went to
00:04war back in 2006.
00:06Fouad Signora, thank you so much for speaking with us from Beirut.
00:14Thank you for inviting me to do this interview, yes.
00:19We are speaking on a day when there's been more Israeli strikes on the Lebanese capital
00:24where eight Israeli soldiers have died in fighting that's happening inside of Lebanon,
00:30in southern Lebanon.
00:32What are your thoughts when you compare with those 33 days back in 2006?
00:42Well there are quite a difference and I would like to comment on what happened yesterday
00:46and today as well.
00:47But let me tell you about the difference between what was in 2012 and now.
00:52In fact, there are similarities and similarities in that it is a party which is not the government
01:02and is that he committed, first of all, this incident on the 12th of July 2006 and he committed
01:13the same thing actually in 2002-2003 in October.
01:21And he is not representing the government and not representing the Lebanese people.
01:26And in this, here we have the similarity is that the same party did the same thing.
01:32If in fact actually on the 8th of October, 2023, I made a statement clearly stating that
01:40Lebanon cannot afford to be pushed into such a war because of five reasons and to say it
01:48in brief is that we do not have up till now and we are not able to elect a president and
01:55form a functioning government.
01:58We have a major economic and living crisis in Lebanon and we have a major number of Syrian
02:07refugees in the country which we cannot afford to have them in Lebanon.
02:13And fourth is that Lebanon, like in 2006, we are not able to, in fact, to get into this
02:24war where most of the Lebanese are against being pushed into such a war and we don't
02:29have anymore the safety net that we used to have in 2006 in our relations with the Arab
02:40world and our relations with the international community.
02:44For all these five reasons, Lebanon cannot afford to get pushed into such a thing.
02:50You mentioned at the outset.
02:51Actually in 2006.
02:52Go ahead.
02:53In 2006, let me tell, let me say, in 2006 we made it clearly at that point that we do
03:05not adopt what really Hezbollah did.
03:12We disavow actually what Hezbollah did.
03:18In this time, actually in 2003, the Lebanese government did not say that.
03:25So now here we are.
03:27What to do actually?
03:28There are a number of things that the Lebanese government has to do.
03:32And in fact, the caretaker government headed by Najib Mi'ati together with the Speaker
03:40of the House, they have to make it a clear point that they cannot continue linking and
03:46making it a point that both places, Gaza and Lebanon, they have to really go hand in
04:00hand while actually what is left in Gaza, we have the 2,200,000 people are helpless
04:09and they cannot really do anything.
04:12And at the same time, most of Gaza is in rubble.
04:16So this is the thing why Lebanon should continue linking its position to a situation where
04:22we don't have any control over it.
04:24So Lebanon has to really set clearly and save Lebanon by trying to dissociate from the Gaza situation.
04:33And you say at the outset of our conversation, you said at the outset of our conversation
04:39that the problem is that you have in Lebanon a party that is not the government, Hezbollah
04:44to spell it out, a non-state actor.
04:49It reared its head on your watch when you were prime minister in 2008, bringing Lebanon
04:54to the brink of a rekindling of its civil war.
04:59And it's still there and still the most powerful force in Lebanon.
05:04Is it up to the Lebanese to solve this problem or is it up to the international community?
05:12Well, actually, there is some work that has to be done by the international community
05:19to save Lebanon.
05:21And in terms of, let's say, declaring that there should be a ceasefire.
05:27But at the same time, there is work that has to be done by the caretaker government and
05:32the speaker in talking to Hezbollah and to the present leadership, is that it is futile
05:41to continue linking Lebanon to the situation in Gaza.
05:45And it is high time to learn the lessons, to learn the lessons.
05:50Is that, and I can really can tell you my interpretation of the thing, is that over
05:55the past few years, Nasrallah has been telling us about the importance of having these missiles
06:03and this is the way how to protect the Lebanon outside the role of the government.
06:08And this is the only protection for the country.
06:12And effectively, he acted or he has been acting like a shadow government.
06:18And effectively, not the shadow, the effective government he was actually after having kidnapped
06:25the government, the Lebanese government, he was acting as if he is the government, but
06:29in fact not responsible.
06:31But by doing so, he acted as if he is the state.
06:36And in a state and as an army, he is not a match actually to the Israeli army in five
06:44matters, not in the firepower, not in the aerial power, not in the intelligence, not
06:50in the technology, and not in the international support.
06:54Look what happened yesterday after the missiles were shot from Iran, what really happened.
07:02And look what happened today actually.
07:04This is the area in which Hezbollah can really fight.
07:08And you know what really happened, is that there has been a number of casualties in the
07:16Israeli army.
07:18The problem that has happened is that he acted as an army and not as a guerrilla fighters,
07:26you see.
07:27So this is the thing, nevertheless.
07:30What is important now is that Mr. Berri, the Speaker of the House, has to talk clear,
07:38honest talk with Hezbollah.
07:40It is high time to learn the lessons and try to save the country.
07:44Because the ship, if it sinks, it will sink with all the people, including Hezbollah.
07:50Fouad Senora, just because we're with Lebanon now, is on the brink of...
07:56It's on the brink, you're saying.
07:58Lebanon is on the brink, you're saying, Fouad Senora, but when we look at the international
08:02community...
08:03Of sinking, of sinking.
08:05The United States is waiting for its presidential election.
08:11France has tried some mediation, but it seems weak.
08:15Is there anybody out there, a regional player, somebody who can make a difference for Lebanon
08:21at this point in time?
08:24Yes, let me tell you what happened in 2006 and see how we can imitate that in one way
08:33or another.
08:34It's that the Lebanese army, the Lebanese state at that time, the Lebanese government,
08:38what we did, we formulated the seven points plan.
08:44And that was in Rome.
08:45We put it on the table and we said that this is the position of the Lebanese government.
08:51On that basis, that the...
08:56You're hearing me, isn't it?
08:58Loud and clear.
08:59Hello?
09:00Yes, I can hear you loud and clear.
09:03Yeah, fine.
09:04That this is the position of the Lebanese government, which we declared it in the Rome
09:10conference, that these are the seven points plan, which were used effectively as a basis
09:16for the formulation of the 1701.
09:21Up till now, there hasn't been a real position that has to be set on the table clear and
09:30loud by the Lebanese government.
09:32And just very briefly, because we're...
09:33It has to be really stated clearly.
09:35Just to be very brief, just because we're out of time, just to be very brief, because
09:39we're out of time, Fouad Signora, all of this hinges on, like you say, the different players
09:44within Lebanon speaking to one another.
09:46Lebanon is without a president.
09:49What are the chances of Lebanon's political parties agreeing on a new president anytime
09:56soon?
09:57Yeah, yeah.
09:58You see, now it is in the hands of Nabi Barri, and he has to put matters clearly and fine
10:08that there should be an election of a new president yesterday and not today, and not
10:14to link this with this and that, and to say, we have a dialogue, or we have to wait until
10:20we have a ceasefire, and so on.
10:23Lebanon cannot wait to elect a president.
10:25It is in the hands of Barri now.
10:27He can save the country, or he can let the country sink.
10:31Fouad Signora, former prime minister of Lebanon, thank you so much for speaking with us here
10:36on France 24.
10:43Same to you.