The New England Patriots endured a tough 40-7 loss to the Los Angeles Chargers, dropping their season record to 3-13. On the latest episode of Patriots Beat, Alex Barth from 98.5 The Sports Hub and Brian Hines from Pats Pulpit go live to break down what’s next for New England.
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00:00:00All right, everyone, welcome back into another live edition of the Patriots Beat Podcast
00:00:29here on the CLNS Media Network presented by our wonderful friends over at Price Picks
00:00:34and Game Time. It's Brian Hines back as always with Alex Barth. We got an extra day there
00:00:40to kind of sit on that Patriots game that occurred Saturday, and it was not a good one.
00:00:45It was, some are calling it a calamity. I don't think Barth was ready to go that far,
00:00:50but it was an ass whooping 40 to 7 to the Los Angeles Chargers there after that stadium
00:00:56again on Saturday. It was really the one thing they couldn't afford to do is go out there
00:01:01and lay a complete egg like that after one of their more competitive games of the season.
00:01:07Even though they lost in Buffalo, you know, they kept it close. They showed some signs
00:01:10of growth, especially on the defensive side of the football, and then they get out there
00:01:14on Saturday and it all falls apart. So we'll start where we do every week. Now, where are
00:01:21you at with Gerard Mayo and everything going around with him on that coaching staff after
00:01:26that one?
00:01:27Yeah, this, this was the first game I came away from. So if you've watched the show,
00:01:32you kind of know how, where I've been in that. Is there a, a case, a strong case to fire
00:01:38Gerard Mayo? Yes. But I've kind of said that being said at the end of the year, if we're
00:01:42just playing the prediction game, if I had to put money on it, will, he won't, he, my
00:01:47guess was he would be back that that's how I'd felt up to this point. This was the first
00:01:52game I came away from prediction wise thinking, and this is just me, my instincts isn't talking
00:02:01to anybody or reporting anything, but this was just me coming away from that game thinking
00:02:08with all the reporting we'd heard and there was all that reporting he's safe unless it
00:02:11goes off the rails.
00:02:12He's safe unless it's a calamity, right? That was the first game I walked away from saying
00:02:18that my qualify that my qualify is the thing that he couldn't afford to have to save his
00:02:22job. Now I had read into off the rails, calamity losing control. I had read that into that
00:02:32meaning like non X's and O's things. If they're getting blown out on the field, they're getting
00:02:36blown out on the field. The ownership will chalk it up to talent. They'll chalk it up
00:02:39to the roster because he still had the locker room. He still had control of the football
00:02:45team. So it's not just the way the game went, but you see guys starting to quit in that
00:02:50game. The decision to leave Drake may in as late as they did and potentially risk injury
00:02:56players like Keon white, pop Douglas, Jonathan Jones in so many words, questioning the coaching
00:03:02staff after the game.
00:03:03It was all of that that I looked at and kind of felt like just me personally. Again, I'm
00:03:09not reporting anything here. It's like, this is the first time that like I could see it
00:03:15being going in the direction that ownership might make a move. And I'm, I I'm 50 50 today.
00:03:22Like I, I'm not expecting anything. I think either way, I wouldn't be surprised at this
00:03:27point. And there's still obviously one game to go. And Adam Schefter was on, let me pull
00:03:31it up. Actually have it right here. Adam Schefter was on McAfee this morning. I thought I had
00:03:37it right here. Do you have it right there?
00:03:38He, no, but he, he kind of just said the same stuff they've been saying, or like the crafts
00:03:42want them back. But if he has another one of these games where, okay, it's going to
00:03:47be week 18 sounds like based off what Sean McDermott said, the bills are arresting their
00:03:51starters and like another one of these games, like how many, another one of these games
00:03:56do we need to see?
00:03:57Well, that's my point. I don't think it was, did we ever have reporting that it was another
00:04:02one of these games, or it's just this vague, like if disaster happens, another one of
00:04:07these games is more direct than just like a complete, then just like, Hey, right. Cause
00:04:18like we spent weeks parsing what that meant. And we still don't know. We still don't like
00:04:21the, it, it could have just meant a bad blowout, which that was an incredibly bad blowout.
00:04:25It's like, cause that is, it gets a charters probably could have hung 50 if they kept the,
00:04:31the foot on the gas. So yeah, that's, that's where I'm at. Like, I do wonder if, if some
00:04:38of what we saw in that game on the field, off the field is what those reports have been
00:04:43alluding to is what Mayo couldn't have those V that vague situation that was given. Yeah.
00:04:48He's most likely to be back unless, and then, you know, what's after that, unless was never
00:04:55really filled in, but if we're going to fill it in, I mean, doesn't, doesn't that feel
00:04:59like everything that happened in that game after that game could qualify.
00:05:03Yeah. Cause you're, as you said, and I agree with, you know, a lot of your points, like
00:05:09you're, you're starting to see the stuff that you can't chalk up to just talent, right? Like
00:05:14we know they're not a talented football team. We knew they weren't, I think the Von Godshall
00:05:19even said, you know, we knew we weren't going to win the Superbowl this year and stuff like
00:05:23that, but you're now you're seeing players come out on white being one of the loudest
00:05:28voices. Funny. Cause it's gone white, but you know, one of those guys that say exactly,
00:05:34you know, questioning the coaching, then Mayo is on the radio before the game. He says,
00:05:38that's not really what he meant. And then we go to Keon white in the locker room after
00:05:41the game, he says, what did you actually mean? He goes exactly what I said, right? So they're
00:05:44not on the same page, even though it sounds insane, they're on the same page and he's
00:05:49exactly questioning the coaching. He doesn't feel, it seems like he doesn't feel like he
00:05:53likes how he's being used and that he's taking a step back as a player and that's tied to
00:05:58coaching. And another one, I don't, you didn't even mention this one, the whole Antonio Gibson
00:06:02Ramond Ray Stevenson thing where that's a good point. That that's another good one on
00:06:07the radio, uh, an hour and a half or whenever, Saturday morning, sometime and saying Antonio
00:06:15Gibson is going to start. And, uh, Ross Tucker, who was calling the game, who was in a production
00:06:20meeting with Mayo said, we're going to start Antonio Gibson. We want to send this match
00:06:24message to Ramond Ray Stevenson and the rest of the team that you'll be held accountable
00:06:28for these fumbling issues. And then we get out there and Ramond Ray Stevenson is in the
00:06:33opening huddle and starting the game. And it's like, all right, are there a miscommunication
00:06:39or are just the details not buttoned up? And like that, it was a bad look to Mayo. We obviously,
00:06:44I think Mike Reese asked him multiple times after the game this morning. I don't know
00:06:49if it was Mike this morning, but someone asked if he wanted to clarify and he wouldn't
00:06:52get into any detail about that. Just saying there was a coaching decision, but it's just,
00:06:57and that's been summarizing his whole kind of tenure here this year, handling the media,
00:07:03right? Like the messages are, are mixed messages all over the place. And it, it's not a good
00:07:07look now if it's kind of trickling down to the, like the Ross, like the game day operations
00:07:12and stuff like that. So yeah, you are starting to see these types of things that it could
00:07:19cause hesitancy obviously to bring him back because it's, you can't just chalk it up to
00:07:23we don't have talent on the football team. Things kind of are, you know, falling apart
00:07:28all over the place. It seems. Yeah, it's all good points. I think what happened there was
00:07:34it was probably coach speak where it's like, like let's be starting an NFL game as a running
00:07:40back. Most positions starting is kind of irrelevant in the big picture because playing a snap
00:07:46and then come out of the game, right? You could have a star wide receiver, but you decide
00:07:49we're going to run the first snap and jumbo to send a message. Boom. The guy doesn't get
00:07:52to start. Now that being said, there is something ceremonial about taking that starting snap
00:07:57away. And after seven fumbles, I think that that was warranted. I also think when, when
00:08:03we talked about it and I said this, I don't care who starts, it's who's your lead back.
00:08:08Who's getting most of the responsibilities. Who's getting most of the snaps. The, the
00:08:14game log will tell you it was Antonio Gibson. That was not the case until that final garbage
00:08:19drive where the chargers just gifted them 50 yards and frankly made this whole thing
00:08:23in the box score look nearly not as bad as it was. And it still looks pretty bad.
00:08:28He had six carries on the final drive and he broke one for 20 yards.
00:08:32And he finished with five more snaps total than Stevenson. So my, my issue isn't.
00:08:44Mayo should not have said that Gibson was starting and then started Stevenson. What I
00:08:48think he was trying to say was that Gibson's going to be the lead back. Antonio Gibson's
00:08:54going to get most of the workload. Most of the carries, I think it ended up being 11
00:08:57to two, right? But again, you take out that final garbage time drive at six to two. So
00:09:01they didn't really run at all. What I think Mayo meant to say was we're going to make
00:09:09Gibson the lead back. He's going to get most of the carry. Stevenson's role is going to
00:09:12shrink to the second back. That's what I think he meant to say. So it's another case
00:09:16of him not presenting information in the right way, but then they didn't even really do
00:09:21that. They got it at the end. So they had the number, but they didn't even really do
00:09:24that. That whole thing was very weird. And I wonder if it maybe speaks to a disconnect
00:09:29between Mayo and Alex van Pelt.
00:09:31Yeah. So in, I know we just said like, those are the things outside of X's and O's
00:09:36scheme related. If you want to go to the field, like what happened on the field, the
00:09:41defense completely fell apart. The chargers scored a season high, 40 points, seven
00:09:46straight scoring drives. They gave a two 90 plus yard scoring drives, right? The chargers
00:09:52were backed up inside their own 10 yard line three times, and they let them March down
00:09:56the field twice for touchdowns.
00:09:58The other one they forced to punt was the first drive of the game. So, and this was a
00:10:02matchup where again, you were, had a really good plan last week against Josh Allen and
00:10:08that Bill's offense. You look at this offense in the, in the chargers and you say, okay,
00:10:12you can kind of match up the same way, right? They don't have many receivers outside of
00:10:16Latin McConkie in the slot who actually taught torch them as we should have all seen
00:10:21coming, you know, 90 yards, two touchdowns.
00:10:24They actually held up pretty decently against the ground game, but it was, they couldn't
00:10:29touch Justin Herbert. Another one of those games where he could have put his Jersey, if
00:10:32it wasn't raining right in the pro shop or hall of fame or whatever, they couldn't get
00:10:37pass rush. They haven't been able to kind of manufacture that pass rush all year. And
00:10:41then the coverage, I know they lost Christian Gonzalez in the, in the second quarter at
00:10:46some point in that, in that first half, but the secondary and the coverage kind of fell
00:10:50apart as well.
00:10:52Jonathan Jones had a lot of problems with, with McConkie and it was just, it was a mess
00:10:57defensively from, from that side of those, that side of the ball again, after one of
00:11:01their, their better efforts. And that comes down to, you know, Gerard Mayo is a defensive
00:11:05head coach and the Marcus Covington still just looks like he's in way too over his head
00:11:09on as a defensive coordinator.
00:11:12Yeah, it, they, they looked lost and I, it's to me, it wasn't a ton like the Rams game
00:11:17where it was like, they were doing all this in-depth schematic stuff and the Patriots
00:11:22just couldn't keep up. They, the Chargers kind of kept throwing the same thing against
00:11:25them, same basic looks against them and they never adjusted. So this was, yeah, not a good
00:11:30look, especially for the defensive coaching staff.
00:11:34Yeah, that's where I think it's changed. If they run back Mayo, right? Like if they, if
00:11:39the craft state kind of solid here and they want to give Gerard a second chance, that's
00:11:44where I think the first change has to happen is you got to wipe out that defensive coaching
00:11:49staff. It's not worked. The results have not worked. I get like, they've lost Christian
00:11:54Barmore and Juwan Bentley has been out most of the year. You know, you have Kyle Duggar
00:11:59playing on one ankle.
00:12:00Gabriel Peppers has been in and out with his legal situation. I get you were at a talent
00:12:04deficit, but it's just not working there. And now you're like, you know, Keon White,
00:12:10Jonathan Jones, defensive players calling out coaches. It's the defensive coaching staff.
00:12:15So that's where I think if it is Mayo coming back, that that's where I think kind of the
00:12:19first big change has to be is blowing up that kind of defensive side of the football and
00:12:25the Marcus Covington.
00:12:27Yeah, that's, I mean, we, we, we talked about Gerard Mayo's job. Obviously that's relevant.
00:12:33To me, I think you got to be near a, a point of no return with the Marcus Covington, just
00:12:38the way this defenses look. Yep. Anything else with Mayo or Covington coaching staff?
00:12:48Anything else from, from Saturday there? And that's pretty much it. Yeah. Do you think
00:12:55a, do you think they're going to bench Drake May this week? Well, what would you kind of
00:12:59do if you're, if you're the staff going into week 18 here? Why are we all acting like if
00:13:03they bench Drake May, they're automatically going to lose the game. Do, do we need to
00:13:07educate people, Brian on Matt Flynn? Because do you even remember five? Yeah. It was like
00:13:13five touchdowns or something. It was the Packers. And I think he still holds them. He set the
00:13:20Packers single game franchise records for, uh, passing yards, 480 and touchdowns six
00:13:29in a game against the Detroit lions. So this was a little, for people who don't know, Matt
00:13:33Flynn was, and this is the Packers. This is the, you know, Elliot Wolf was a little level
00:13:38staffer, but it's Ron Wolf draft a quarterback every year, turn them through, turn them and
00:13:43burn them.
00:13:44See if you can get their value up, trade them. So he was like a fit or a seventh round pick
00:13:50he'd started one game, oddly enough against the Patriots. It was the Dan Connolly kick
00:13:54return game. Cause Aaron Rogers was hurt. It started one game in three years. He was
00:13:59the backup in 2011. It's the opposite in the sense that they had the playoffs clinched
00:14:04instead of being out, but they didn't want to play Aaron Rogers. So Matt Flynn gets the
00:14:07start his second career start 30 against Detroit lions, 31 to 44, 480 yards, six touchdowns
00:14:14in a pick in a 45, 41 win that performance earned him like a very sizable contract from
00:14:24the Seattle Seahawks that off season.
00:14:25So unlike Joe Milton, he was a free agent at the end of the year. He got a three year
00:14:31$20.5 million deal, which doesn't sound like a lot for a quarterback now, but that was
00:14:36kind of significant then. And then he lost the starting job to Russell Wilson and camp.
00:14:40Okay. Yeah. I was going to say, was that when they drafted Wilson right after, but he was
00:14:44supposed to be the starter. He was signed to be the starter. And then he ended up here
00:14:48at one point. I think he was just here for like a summer, but coffee. Who's to say Joe
00:14:54Milton doesn't go out there and sling it against the bills backups. And even then who says
00:14:57they like everybody's like, Oh, Joe Milton will suck. You'll be fine. One Joe Milton
00:15:00might light it up to Joe Milton might light it up and you could still lose.
00:15:04You could just lose a shootout between Joe Milton and Mitch Trubisky because of the defense.
00:15:08So let's not act like benching Drake may is significant. I think if I had a guest now,
00:15:15just my gut, Drake may gets one drive so they can say they started them. And the bills are
00:15:20probably going to do the same thing. Josh Allen's going to hand off three times so he
00:15:23can keep his game started streak. Uh, give Drake may a drive essentially like a preseason
00:15:29game, low intensity drive. And then you go to Joe Milton. Cause that's, I think what
00:15:33the bills are going to do with Trubisky too. I don't think Allen's going to be like an
00:15:36active. Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised if they kind of treat this like a preseason
00:15:42game. And I think it's like getting Drake may out of there healthy should be the number
00:15:47one goal. Because if he goes out there and I get like the hit to the heads, those are
00:15:52happening with him, but he almost got hip drop tackled to death by Derwin James on one
00:15:57of those sacks yesterday. If he goes out there and you know, tears up his ankle or knee and
00:16:02you ruin any of that off season development or you, if he's rehabbing or has to do something
00:16:09where now you miss time and OTAs or time in training camp, or maybe he's trying to learn
00:16:14a new offensive, a new offensive coordinator comes in here.
00:16:17Like that is a huge loss, maybe even more loss than, you know, moving from one to three
00:16:21in the draft or something. So getting Drake may out of there healthy is kind of the number
00:16:26one goal. So I wouldn't be, let me ask you this, Brian, let's, let's look at it another
00:16:30way. Let's say Joe Milton goes out there and like lights it up. Let's say you give
00:16:35me the opportunity, lights it up, draft trade, baby, right? You could flip him for, you got
00:16:39him for a fifth.
00:16:40I don't know. Am I being too bold? If I say a third, would you rather have call it the
00:16:45second overall pick third overall pick? Would you rather have the third overall pick and
00:16:54that's it or, or sorry, no. Would you rather have the first overall pick and that's it
00:16:59or the third overall pick and an extra top 100 you get for Joe Milton?
00:17:04Probably the first overall pick, because I think if I'm trading down, I could get a bigger,
00:17:09like if I'm trading from one to three, I could probably get a bigger haul than just from
00:17:13three to five, probably get a decent haul. It's either going to be for quarterback or
00:17:17Travis Hunter. You can get a good haul there. Yeah. But then you're out of potentially Travis
00:17:22Hunter range. If you, I'm okay with them being out on Travis Hunt, tremendous player. He's
00:17:28kind of a luxury pick for them right now, especially if it says, yeah, I mean, ideally
00:17:31you can get an offensive tackle, but if there's not one up there worthy of the pick, right,
00:17:36that's a conversation we'll be having four months there, but yeah, maybe Joe Milton does
00:17:40go and slings it around and then maybe you're saying, okay, we don't need to bring back
00:17:45Jacoby percent or go get another veteran backup.
00:17:48Maybe you're comfortable with Joe Milton just as your primary backup here. So, uh, you know,
00:17:53him having a, a good game preferably in a, maybe a competitive loss wouldn't be, uh,
00:17:58the worst thing in the world. But, uh, one other thing while we were talking about these
00:18:02kind of changes that could be coming, you did mention Elliot Wolf, uh, there when you're
00:18:06talking about Packers quarterbacks, has anything changed on your opinion about his status with
00:18:12the team? You know, cause watching, you know, could someone be sitting there, you know,
00:18:16the crafts and watching Lad McConkey do all that yesterday while Jalen Polk and Jayvon
00:18:21Baker are stable to the bench and maybe have some feelings about Elliot Wolf.
00:18:26Would you go there yet with the, uh, kind of de facto general manager there? I mean,
00:18:31I'm, I'm sitting him down Monday week from today, especially if they still the first
00:18:37overall pick, what's your plan? What are we doing with this asset? And I'd probably make
00:18:42the decision based off that plan. All right. Cause I mean, yeah, you're going to have,
00:18:47I would, I would, I would be open to it. I don't think, I think it's a little more
00:18:51complicated than the coach because, and people say, you saw Elliot Wolfe's first off season.
00:18:56This is his first real off season. When you change front offices, you're still working
00:19:00with a lot of the groundwork that the previous group put down to give out 90 million just
00:19:08to retain the little talent on this team already. Right? So, you know, with Gerard Mayo, we've
00:19:14seen the Gerard Mayo product. I think it's a little easier to kind of make a snap decision
00:19:20on him right now, whereas Elliot Wolfe, you know, this is his first real swing at it.
00:19:26I want to hear where I would, if I'm ownership, like, okay, what's the plan and how realistic
00:19:31is that plan? If it does work out, do you feel like that's going in the right direction?
00:19:36And then you make the decision from there. But the reality is like, like he was using
00:19:40Bill's groundwork last year. It's going to be his groundwork. I think, you know, no matter
00:19:45what they decide. Yep. Yep. He's got 130 million in cap space and might, maybe the
00:19:51top overall pick there. So they have to be, you know, the crafts have to be pretty confident
00:19:55that he's the guy to kind of get this back on track and kind of steer the ship this off
00:20:01season because it is a huge off season. But let's talk a little bit more about that game
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00:21:05right. Uh, kind of a weird game for Drake May there against the Chargers, you know,
00:21:10leaves after the first series with the hit to the head, he comes back, he only misses
00:21:13three plays. Um, and you know, we saw the offense struggled to move the football, just
00:21:18one scoring drive, which was the 40 plus yard heave to pop Douglas on a free play. So, uh,
00:21:24what did you think of Drake's performance? Maybe his last performance, but what'd you
00:21:27think of his performance against the Chargers? Yeah. Uh, on Saturday.
00:21:31Yeah, I thought it was fine. He, he never got in a rhythm between the offensive line,
00:21:35taking a significant step back from where they've been the last few weeks to missing
00:21:40time and having to come back on the field. I, I, I, he never, it never felt like he got
00:21:44in a rhythm. It never felt like he got comfortable. Um, it didn't help. I don't think play calling
00:21:49helped is very one dimensional. The Chargers were kind of sitting past the whole time.
00:21:54Not when you're right home about you just kind of chalk it up as, Hey, don't become
00:21:57a regular thing. And you move forward from there. Yep. The big thing to me with Drake
00:22:02was just, he kind of struggled with seeing pressure before the snap and then dealing
00:22:07with pressure after the snap felt like he bailed out of the pocket a few times early,
00:22:12even on those two fourth down, uh, Derwin James sacks. Like he had, it looks like he
00:22:17maybe could have stood in there. The second one, especially he had a wide open Hunter
00:22:21Henry, which is a play we've seen him make a lot, right? Like Hunter Henry's running
00:22:24this, that little out route on the sticks and he hits them with an anticipatory throw
00:22:29and you know, they, they can move the chain. So he missed that. The first one too, maybe
00:22:34he could have just flipped it out to Gibson or if he wanted to really get balls, he take
00:22:37the shot deep to Kendrick Bourne. So just didn't love how he kind of saw and handled
00:22:41the blitz, but you know, in and out of the game with the head injury pressure rate was
00:22:46right around 50%, you know, that spike back up, there was, there was a lot coming at him.
00:22:50And, and, you know, Jesse Minter is a good, uh, defensive coordinator there with Harbaugh
00:22:54had some good exotic, uh, pressures coming after him. So a lot to deal with, but didn't
00:22:59necessarily love, uh, how he, how he handled the blitz, uh, at times during that game.
00:23:04But, um, that offensive line, Mayo said the one positive, maybe from the whole game was
00:23:10Cole strange. We saw his first start at center. Did you take anything from, from strangers
00:23:15start? Did you, did you like what you saw from him?
00:23:17I thought he was fine. You know, there weren't any egregiously bad snaps. He did have a penalty.
00:23:22He did have an early snap. It's not enough time to evaluate like, can he be David Andrews
00:23:26long-term replacement, but it certainly wasn't a disaster for a guy playing center really
00:23:31for the first time in a competitive game at the college or pro level. I thought he held
00:23:36up well. Yeah. Didn't look out and I thought he would do. Yeah. No, no bad snaps. Right.
00:23:42I don't know. I think there was one kind of low one, but nothing kind of egregious when
00:23:46it came to snap. So, uh, he hopefully could get another start Sunday. Hopefully, uh, Caden
00:23:52Wallace starts this last game. We only saw him for like 14 plays, uh, to end that right
00:23:57tackle, but hopefully he gets in there, uh, in that along the offensive line. Uh, we talked
00:24:02about kind of the running backs at the top, anything from the wide receivers from yesterday
00:24:09kind of business as usual with the rotation. We just saw Polk and Baker at the very end
00:24:14for garbage. So yeah, neither one of them played until like, we've seen Polk. We talked
00:24:19about this. We've seen Polk mix in, but you know, not just not be involved, but he'd been
00:24:26on the field, like 20 something snaps a game. Neither of the rookies played. I texted you
00:24:30guys. I didn't see him on the sideline. I before, I think it was like the quarter you
00:24:36texted us in like the third quarter. I think I started third quarter. I was looking at
00:24:39the second quarter and I couldn't find them. And then I eventually found them. They just
00:24:43had like big coats on, like huddled up, like, right. It didn't look like they were ready
00:24:48to go in the game.
00:24:49Yeah. It tells me the plan was for them to not play. So it was with about five minutes
00:24:54to go in the third, they put Polk in cause booty had just run a deep route and needed
00:24:58a breather. And so they had to go to the next guy and then didn't see either of them again
00:25:03until, you know, very late. They had put Kane Wallace in and Lester Cotton in and, and they
00:25:08came in with all the backups.
00:25:09Yup. And then two passes to them, two incompletions Polk, you know, one up maybe one of May's
00:25:16best throws of the day was the Polk on that kind of over the, over the shoulder in the
00:25:20bucket goes off his hands, hurts his shoulder in the process. So, uh, who knows if he'll
00:25:26even be ready to go next week, if they want to lean more into those guys, you know, in
00:25:30this kind of season finale, uh, we'll see, but I will give credit in that room. Kendrick
00:25:36born. I know the box score only said like two catches for 22 yards. I thought Kendrick
00:25:40born, uh, had a good game. He was getting open a lot. So just give Kendrick born, uh,
00:25:45some flowers there, but anything else from the offense that you wanted to touch on or
00:25:50we can move over to the defense, even though we, we touched on that a little bit.
00:25:54Yeah. I think that's pretty much it for me on the offense. All right. Uh, yeah, I mean,
00:25:59we did talk about the defense a lot, just completely falling apart after one of their
00:26:03better, uh, games last week in Buffalo, the run defense I thought was surprisingly well
00:26:09against the chargers. If you want a bright spot, but outside of that, it was a pretty
00:26:15poor effort, no pass rush. You know, the coverage falls apart specifically with McConkie Herbert,
00:26:20just kind of torch them up three touchdowns. Um, and Christian Gonzales left with an injury
00:26:25to make everything even better. He's in concussion protocol. So we'll see, but, um, anything
00:26:31from that secondary, you know, we saw Alex Austin, Isaiah Bolden had to come in and take
00:26:35bigger roles without Christian Gonzalez. Did you like, uh, how those two guys held up?
00:26:39And then, you know, obviously some, some struggles from Jonathan Jones, uh, with labs doesn't
00:26:43have those young legs to deal with that four, three speed lab, McConkie, Jonathan Jones
00:26:47does anymore. But what'd you see, uh, from those corners without, without Christian Gonzalez
00:26:51yesterday,
00:26:52I mean, Austin continues to look like he deserves a role in a team online. McConkie I'll just
00:26:57say this. And I think we had this conversation off the air, Brian, and when it comes to Elliot
00:27:01Wolfe and when it comes to where the Patriots are at, and this goes to a draft point as
00:27:04well, it says a lot. So live McConkie crossed a thousand yard mark over in this game. Third
00:27:11rookie to do it this year. Second receiver joins Malik neighbors and Brock Bowers. Does
00:27:17live McConkie is live McConkie, a thousand yard receiver. If the Patriots drafted and
00:27:22everything else remains the same is live in the yard receiver, New England. No, but
00:27:28I'd still give them six, six, 700. What pop get last year? What was pop season where it
00:27:34was like 700, 700. I think he could have done that a hundred percent. I think he might be
00:27:39close to her case on booties right now because yeah, because they had no choice, but to remember
00:27:46they were out of bodies.
00:27:47They had no choice, but to play pop Douglas. They tried to bench him and they couldn't.
00:27:52They love benching rookies. They can't, they is at that position. They still can't figure
00:27:56out how to develop these players. And tell me if you disagree, Brian, but for me personally
00:28:03seeing lad McConkie in person yesterday, lad McConkie is a much better, or when I saw him
00:28:11Saturday, lad McConkie is a much better football player now than he was at the university of
00:28:17Georgia last year. True or false.
00:28:20True. I mean, yeah, he's definitely better. I better. I thought he was very good at Georgia
00:28:27too, but he was good at Georgia, but I think his route running is a little bit crisper.
00:28:31And I think he has a much better feel for reading and reacting to a defense and getting
00:28:36himself into space. He just, he looks better at that. Jalen Polk. Meanwhile, it looks like
00:28:43the same guy he was at Washington.
00:28:45There's minimal of any development there. Jayvon Baker. Now we have to go way back to
00:28:49the last time we saw him, but Jayvon Baker looks like the same guy he was at UCF. I would
00:28:53even argue, and you got, you guys know Brian, you know, I'm a big fan of pop Douglas. I
00:28:58think he's a good player. I think he's a very good player. I think he's a starting slot
00:29:02receiver in the NFL. Did they develop pop Douglas or was he just a guy that kind of
00:29:07fell through the cracks? Cause he was undersized at a small school. And this is what he is
00:29:11like. Is he better this year than he was last year? He kind of feels like the same
00:29:16player, right? Like he's case Sean booty better than he was his case. Sean booty better than
00:29:22he was last year. Does he just have a better quarterback and he's on the field and he's
00:29:26on the field, right?
00:29:27Well, I even going back to training camp. So we saw him a good amount of campus rookie.
00:29:32The point being the Patriots are not developing these guys drafting the right player. And
00:29:39you guys know that should know this rant by heart at this point, drafting the right
00:29:42player is only half the battle. You have to develop them. And to me, the second guest
00:29:46is not Polk or McConkie. I I'm not hindsight is easy. When you talk about the draft, I
00:29:51will own up to where I was. I had McConkie slightly ahead of Polk, but I had them about
00:29:56the same caliber of prospect.
00:29:57The real second guest to me is recognize. You can't develop this position and move up
00:30:05to get a guy like Xavier Legette, who again, doesn't have the production. McConkie does,
00:30:10but is in a much worse situation. Maybe you move way up and you get a guy like, like Brian
00:30:14Thomas, get a guy that's more NFL ready. And in reality, what this all comes back to is
00:30:20we talk about the coaching staff and people are going to say, this is me making excuses
00:30:23for Ellie Wolf.
00:30:24It's not, it's just making sure the blame is assigned all the way around. The player
00:30:28wasn't developed. You got to look at the offensive coaching staff, Alex Van Pelt, Tyler Hughes,
00:30:34that these play and Hughes has been here in the past and wide receivers have not developed.
00:30:39They, I can think of in the last 10 years, basically since Edelman one wide receiver
00:30:45who got significantly better after joining the Patriots. And that's Jacoby Myers. I don't,
00:30:51you tell me, Brian, Nikhil didn't really get better. Taekwon didn't really get better.
00:30:56Most of these guys did not really get noticeably better. So one, they need to get a new receivers
00:31:03of the entire offensive staff. It's almost all those Elliot Wolf, Cleveland green Bay
00:31:08guys, except for some reason, the wide receiver spot was the one they said, let's bring the
00:31:13guy back from the previous regime in Tyler Hughes.
00:31:16You got to get a new wide receivers coach. And I reserve the right to change my mind
00:31:22if they have a new wide receivers coach, if they have a new GM as it stands right now,
00:31:27I don't know that I want them to take a wide receiver in the top 100 of this draft. I don't,
00:31:31I think I would be uncomfortable with that because I can't walk. Exactly. DK Metcalf
00:31:38T Higgins. They need a guy who is as ready, as polished, as proven as can be. They need
00:31:47a guy that can step on the field day one of the spring and make a visible, noticeable
00:31:54difference.
00:31:55A guy that has gravity. And I don't want to hear Travis Hunter. Is this elite athlete
00:31:59tech McMillan can do this and that they have not proven themselves in the NFL. There is
00:32:03no such thing as a perfect prospect. I was told for months and months and months last
00:32:08year that despite the Patriots needing a quarterback and there being potentially generational quarterbacks
00:32:13on the board, Marvin Harrison was a can't miss prospect. I was told how many times are
00:32:18we told Harrison is can't miss Brian. Is he a top two rookie receiver in the league right
00:32:25now? Yeah. He's not even top four. So there's your kid. It's it's neighbors. Brian Thomas
00:32:35jr. Lad McConkey are definitely the top three. So that's your can't miss prospect is behind
00:32:41Lad McConkey. Who was the second round pick who at the time people thought was overdrafted.
00:32:45If you go back and people thought Polk was overdrafted too, that was supposed to be a
00:32:49D Mitchell. If you remember correctly. So I don't want to hear about canvas talent with
00:32:56Travis Hunter potentially being wide receiver. And the more I hear, the more I believe he's
00:32:59a corner, but I want to hear about him or tech McMillan being canvas. If you want to
00:33:03double up, we can have that conversation. Like if it's, and you have to be smart about
00:33:09it. You can't pay T Higgins and draft tech McMillan. That's the same player. Now we're
00:33:15probably talking about Luther burden if we're going to do a double up thing, but they want
00:33:20to take a project guy. And I know this is supposed to be defense and I went on an offense
00:33:24tangent, but I forgot to get this in before. No, it's good. You want it. You want to take
00:33:27a flyer on a upside athletic guy on day three, have at it. I have no problem with that. Top
00:33:34100 picks need to be on the line of scrimmage. Go get a proven guy that steps on the field
00:33:40day one and is ready not just to start, not just to play, but to dominate. That's the
00:33:47guy they need.
00:33:48Speaker 3 Yeah. Yeah. I love the idea of adding a veteran and, and a veteran wide receiver
00:33:55coach in that process. Cause you need, you know, that position hasn't been, you know,
00:33:59a lot of rookie first year coaches in that role too. And you still have a lot of young
00:34:04guys, like even if you get that veteran that doesn't need to be necessarily coached up
00:34:09very much. Like you still have a lot of young guys in that room that we just talked about.
00:34:12Like pop's going to be here. Booty will be here in the summer. Polk will probably still
00:34:17be here as a second round pick. We'll see what Jayvon Baker's future is, but maybe a
00:34:21new coach in there can just give those guys a little bit of a bump too. Like I'm not counting
00:34:26on it, but if you get a proven coach in there, maybe help those guys a little bit as well.
00:34:31If you're a Patriots fan and I don't think this is going to happen, but can we dream
00:34:34for a second? Let's do it. Ohio state gets pantsed in the Rose bowl. Ryan day gets fired.
00:34:41They blow that whole staff out. The Patriots should be ready to make Brian Hartline the
00:34:45highest paid positional coach in the NFL. If they accept that head coaching job, didn't
00:34:50he say he had a head coaching job offer? He did, but I, it was at West Virginia, wasn't
00:34:54it? Or did he have another one? I think it was West Virginia. Cause what they hired,
00:35:01um, Richard, I know he interviewed at West Virginia unless he, uh, no here, 58 minutes
00:35:08ago, uh, from, uh, 11 warriors, which is like the Ohio state Pat's pulpit vaunted Buckeyes
00:35:13wide receiver coach. Brian Hartline says a head coaching position isn't on his mind.
00:35:18Still loves Ohio state. Now look, maybe they fire Ryan day and keep him. But if Ryan day
00:35:24gets let go and they just decide we're cleaning house altogether, I would open up the check
00:35:31book for that guy. Yeah, definitely. That is, I think as proven a wide receivers coach
00:35:36as you are going to get, I also would throw out if they do move on from Mayo and it's
00:35:41Mike Vrabel, he has a good relationship with West Welker. Who's done a pretty good job
00:35:44in that role at a couple stops. That's another guy I would put on the short list. I would
00:35:48love that. Give me West welcome back here. I would love that. Or do Vrabel and West Welker
00:35:54end up at Ohio state. And then Brian Hartline comes here. I would take that as well. He
00:35:58doesn't want to coach a college Vrabel. He's, he said that. So I hadn't seen that. It's
00:36:04been like my sleeper for him as Ohio state, but he said it, he was on, um, I think it
00:36:09was, it might've been around the combine last year. He was on a PMT and they asked him about
00:36:17college coaching and he's like, yeah, I don't really want to recruit or anything. So, I
00:36:21mean, maybe he's had a change of heart, but he's going to, right now you can just hire
00:36:24a GM to do it. Yeah. He's going to have offers though in the NFL. So I'd imagine that that's
00:36:30still his preference, but, um, Sean, how's something mentioned Sean Jefferson too. Cause
00:36:35like the jets are gonna, jets are going to be hiring a new coach and everything. And
00:36:40he's got some, some ties here. I would take, they interviewed Sean Jefferson, right? For
00:36:44the OC job after the Patricia year. If I remember correctly, they did Mark Mark Keenan, Mark
00:36:50Caudill or Keenan Mardell in and McCardell, the Vikings wide receiver coach. They do
00:36:56Sean Jefferson too. I thought they did. There was, they interviewed a former Patriots receiver.
00:37:05Was it Jefferson or was it somebody else? I thought they interviewed Jefferson. Yeah,
00:37:10they did. Okay. They did. They interviewed. Yeah. Cause he, he coached, um, wasn't he
00:37:15the one that Calvin Johnson said he was the best coach he ever had or was that McCardell?
00:37:21Um, let me see. I'm on Sean Jefferson right now. Uh, yeah, he was with the lines from
00:37:25Oh eight to 12 wide receivers coach. So I remember making a big deal about that. Yeah.
00:37:29Calvin Johnson, Sean Jefferson's the best coach I've ever had. Yeah. So I know he's
00:37:34bounced around Johnson says that he's like, he's been on three teams in three years, Cardinals
00:37:40Panthers jets. But like if you want an experienced guy, he's been coaching wide receiver since
00:37:462007 and he played the position for, yeah. And he's played the position for what you
00:37:51have a 12, 13 year career NFL career. So, uh, that's a guy and maybe he'll bring Garrett
00:37:59Wilson here with him with the jets. How about that? Wouldn't that be fun? Would you trade
00:38:03the first overall pick to the jets? So I was thinking that like if you swap with them,
00:38:10could you get Garrett Wilson out of it too? But you give the jets a quarterback. I wouldn't
00:38:16that, that 80, I know it's the jets and I get that if that quarterback ends up being a guy,
00:38:23there's no coming back from that. It's there's, there's no coming back from putting an elite
00:38:28quarterback on your own schedule twice a year. I wouldn't do it. Now I would take the jets call
00:38:34and I would use their offer to leverage other teams. I wouldn't let other teams know.
00:38:38I'm not interested in trading with the jets. I would make it very public that I'm listening
00:38:42to offers with the jets, but I ultimately wouldn't take it. If we want to go down,
00:38:46do we, do we want, I know we're trying to do the game, but let's be honest.
00:38:52So I, I posted yesterday, the two trades in the last 25 years with involving the first overall
00:38:59pick. It's happened twice since 2000. And it was the bears Panthers trade a couple of years ago.
00:39:05And it was 2016, uh, Rams Titans in the Jared Goff. You're actually the first and second round
00:39:11picks are traded that year. So off the top on that, I feel like Patriots fans want, or I shouldn't
00:39:18say all Patriots fans. I think there is a subset of Patriots fans that just really, really, really
00:39:23want Travis Hunter because they want the shiny new toy and they know it's maybe a luxury pick
00:39:29borderline irresponsible pick, but they want him. So the way to justify it is basically to say
00:39:34everybody else sucks and not just, Oh, the tackles are really guards. Oh, the receivers are too slow.
00:39:40Oh, Abdul Carter's too raw, but now you also have to knock the quarterback. So you don't
00:39:44trade down out of range. And I mean, justify it however you want, you know, I'm here all,
00:39:50you know, there's, you look at those trades, there's nobody close in this draft to those guys
00:39:55should durr before we knew he was going back was QB for last year.
00:39:59And I think people had him closer to Williams,
00:40:03May and Daniels than they did to Nick's McCarthy and panics, right? Like, am I remembering that
00:40:09wrong? Especially at the start of the call. I know like he kind of faded to end last college,
00:40:15but I don't think he faded because he was bad. I think he faded because everybody knew that like
00:40:19Dion said in October, he was going back to school. Yeah. And like his play, I mean, like his play
00:40:26kind of faded a little bit, like, cause the offensive line was a mess there. He was getting
00:40:30hit so much, but yeah, he started the year at the top of that, not the top, you know,
00:40:35it was always kind of Caleb Williams and Daniel shot out of nowhere, but he was,
00:40:39he was definitely up there. I'd say in like the first half of the first round.
00:40:43And let's not like people debated Bryce young. People were saying, see, there were, there were
00:40:49people who were saying, well, Levis should have been the first overall pick in that draft. I'm
00:40:52not saying they were right, but that was the conversation. And let's not, you know, revisionist
00:40:56history, Jared Goff. The big surprise that year was that he was going ahead of Marcus Mariota.
00:41:01Again, if I remember correctly, Brian, feel free to correct me on that.
00:41:06No, that's it. It was that 15 or 16 now blanking on the year.
00:41:10Oh no. Uh, Mariota was Winston Mario. Who was it? Was the next guy and people were surprised when
00:41:16it was Wentz. Yes. And people were surprised that Jared Goff was going ahead of Carson Wentz.
00:41:22So, you know, is sugar an amazing prospect? No, I, I think we're doing a little bit revisionist
00:41:29history on the prospects that were available when those past trades were made. The other thing,
00:41:35people look at the return. I think they look at the round of the picks. They don't look at the
00:41:38numbers. The bears moved back to nine, the Rams, and I would not do this trade or not the Rams,
00:41:44the Rams, we've got the Titans moved back to 15. The Patriots should not be moving that far back.
00:41:51I would go seven, maybe eight at the most. So maybe that Panthers trade is in play.
00:41:59Here's what I would do. Here's a job. I'm going to throw a trade at you, Brian. And obviously
00:42:02there's a lot to be done, but concerning this could all be gone next week when Joe Milton
00:42:05throws for 500 yards and seven touchdowns. So we might as well have the conversation now where we
00:42:09can. And this is probably as far as I'm willing to move down and maybe you even move back up after,
00:42:18but I would do it. The Raiders currently sit at eight. So if we use that Panthers trade as a
00:42:25roadmap, you move one, we'll, we'll I'll leave some room for it being a slightly worse quarterback
00:42:33class. You move one in a day, three pick the Panthers only added, or the Panthers only had
00:42:39to give up, uh, sorry, the bears only to give first overall pick one in a day, three, pick
00:42:44you get back eight, whatever the second round pick is, it's going to be right around 40.
00:42:50You get a first next year, you get a second next year and you get either Max Crosby or Colton
00:42:58Miller. So that'd be current one, current one, current two, future one, future two,
00:43:05and then Max Crosby or Colton Miller. And you may be throwing a day three pick to
00:43:10that. It, that covers the gap to me between Shadera Sanders and Bryce Young. I would even,
00:43:14if you want to go to the Judon pick, I would throw in the Judon pick. I would do that.
00:43:18And at eight, what are you going to get? It's a little far. I still think you probably get one
00:43:24of Banks, Campbell or Carter at eight. I don't think all three of those guys are going in the
00:43:28top seven, or maybe you even, maybe now you flip one of those picks and you move up from eight to
00:43:34five, right? Maybe that, maybe if you can save the Judon pick, use the Judon pick to move up
00:43:39from eight to five. That's not an unrealistic trade. That is almost bar for bar with the
00:43:46Panthers gave up to move up to get Bryce Young. Yeah. Now I love the idea of getting a player
00:43:54in that trade, right? Someone who can come in and help you right away. Like I know the Jets
00:43:59situation is tough, but if you could move back and get Garrett Wilson and then like you're right
00:44:03there, you get Kelvin Banks or Abdul Carter, like, or, you know, Matt, I don't know if Max
00:44:08Crosby, but Colton Miller, maybe one of their, you know, they don't want Michael Meyer anymore.
00:44:12You could throw him in. So I don't think Michael Meyer is that caliber of player.
00:44:15Yeah. But like a legit starting left tackle, right? So you're moving back to eight,
00:44:23but you're also getting that guy. You're now getting a guy that's a proven starter.
00:44:29And ideally at eight, you're still getting another plus starting player.
00:44:33So it's, it's, and I'm just throwing this out there one overall for eight call it 40 future
00:44:43first, future second, and Colton Miller, Max Crosby. You can debate that one amongst yourselves.
00:44:50I think Crosby has a higher short-term ceiling. Colton Miller is more of a long-term play.
00:44:55He's not the superstar Max Crosby is, but you're getting a really solid player,
00:44:59getting a really solid player, a little bit younger at a position. That's maybe a little
00:45:03more important. So you can, you can, Oh, wow. Colton Miller's 29. All right. Nevermind,
00:45:08but you're still getting a starting left. Is he really? Yeah. I thought he was like 26.
00:45:13Interesting. Turns 30 in October. I'll you still throw them in,
00:45:17still throw them in now. I'm even if it's Colton Miller, I'm not giving up the Judon pick. Now
00:45:21it's just that first. Yeah. That's a trade I would, I would throw out there.
00:45:26Yep. And someone, I kind of wanted to bring something along these lines up. Someone said,
00:45:31you know, the Panthers are here to trade other teams. Aren't that stupid to kind of give up a
00:45:34hall like that teams are stupid NFL teams. Let's look at some of the teams behind the Patriots.
00:45:41Brian, I was going to bring this up when you were talking about, you know, kind of Shador and would
00:45:47people want to trade up for him? We were talking with, you know, it was Taylor Evan before the
00:45:51game on Saturday. All it takes is one team. All it takes is one team to fall in love with. It could
00:45:57be cam Ward. Like if these teams are about to read off like the Browns, if the Browns go through
00:46:02their process and love cam Ward, even though everyone in the draft says this guy is a mid
00:46:07first round pick second round pick. If the Browns think he is a top three pick worthy,
00:46:12and they're worried that they're not going to get him, they will move up and go ahead and read these
00:46:17teams off because there are probably some stupid teams in that list that sit right behind the
00:46:22Patriots that need a quarterback right now. I'm not going to go in order. I'm going to save one
00:46:25for last because I want to make an example out of them in particular. But the Tennessee Titans
00:46:30traded A.J. Brown because they thought Traylon Burks would be a comparable player.
00:46:34And in response, they fired one of the best coaches in the league. Dumb the Cleveland Browns.
00:46:40Dumb. The Jacksonville Jaguars hired Urban Meyer to develop a first overall draft pick. Dumb.
00:46:49The Las Vegas Raiders went through the whole thing with Josh McDaniels, paid Derek Carr,
00:46:54cut him a year later, thought Aiden O'Connell and Jimmy Garoppolo were the answers. Dumb.
00:46:59And have Deion Sanders in their back pocket. And have Deion Sanders in their back pocket.
00:47:03I'll even throw New Orleans Saints in there. I probably wouldn't trade down to 10. I also don't
00:47:08think they're a dumb team. I just think they manipulated the cap for so long and they had
00:47:12some older rosters. It's finally catching up to them. The team I saved, and you might notice that
00:47:16they're missing, is the New York Giants. And this is why I wouldn't be surprised if you get a team
00:47:22to get dumb. It's a copycat league. It's a PR league. The Giants, and we're in our bubble in
00:47:29New England, so maybe people haven't seen this, but if you look nationally, the Giants have been
00:47:34getting ripped to shreds by their own fan base and others for not offering more for Drake May.
00:47:42And we know that because it's in that off-season hard knocks that no NFL team should ever agree to
00:47:46do. That can only end poorly between the Saquon Barkley clip. Well, I'd hate to see Saquon Barkley
00:47:53go to Philly, right? That clip and the Drake May thing. Joe Schoen probably isn't going to survive.
00:47:59Is it Schoen or Shane? I always forget. I think it's Shane. Joe Shane is not going to survive.
00:48:04Other teams, I think, are going to look at that and say, well, we don't want to be this year's
00:48:10Giants. We don't want it out there that we, you know, what if Cam Ward's really good? What if
00:48:15Shudder Sanders is really good? And now you have to answer your fans and you have to answer to
00:48:19national media why you didn't offer enough to go up and get them. Especially these teams,
00:48:24like the Titans, like the Giants, like the Raiders, that are so quarterback starved.
00:48:30The Browns might've bought themselves another year with the restructuring they did to Deshaun
00:48:35Watson's contract. They may be in position to do, make a rare good day two quarterback pick,
00:48:42but everybody else, I would be, I would, I said this last year, this is my philosophy
00:48:48of the Patriots. If you think that guy is good, nothing is worth, there's not too much you can
00:48:54give up. If you think you can win a Superbowl with that guy, we're not going to now suddenly
00:49:00expect NFL teams to be smart, especially when it comes to the quarterback position.
00:49:05JJ McCarthy went 15th last year. That was a bad decision. Oh, 10th with a 10th.
00:49:12Kenny Pickett was the first round. Bonics went 15th, bad decision. It's playing well, but I would
00:49:18argue that smack Jones waiting to happen. Kenny Pickett was the first round pick because of a
00:49:23scarcity of talent available at that position in a year when there were more quarterback
00:49:30teams than quarterbacks available. Now, Kenny Pickett didn't go at the top of the draft.
00:49:35So I get that maybe isn't totally applicable here, but the point being do not underestimate
00:49:41how stupid teams will be in pursuit of a franchise quarterback. And if I'm the Patriots,
00:49:45I am pushing, I am testing that stupidity. I am seeing how far I can push that bar and they'd be,
00:49:51the Patriots would be stupid not to do that. And honestly, I would do that from the number
00:49:56one overall pick. I would do it from the number three overall pick.
00:50:01If Travis Hunter is going to go to, let's say the Browns are like, we got another year at Sean.
00:50:06We're going to give one more look with the Sean Watson. We're going to add Travis Hunter.
00:50:10I would be looking at third overall pick. There's still a quarterback on the board
00:50:13seeing how dumb teams get. So let's not act like teams are going to finally figure it out
00:50:16at the quarterback position. Cause I'll believe that one when I see it, right? When pigs fly,
00:50:21teams will figure it out at the quarterback position. Yeah. I think they're probably
00:50:27Patriots are seeing it the same way that they're going to trade back. Cause speaking of that hard
00:50:30knocks that we got a couple of phone calls and conversations with Joe Shane and Elliot Wolf.
00:50:35And I went back and watched the clips yesterday after they shot back up to one overall. And one
00:50:41of the things Wolf says in that conversation was if we had a quarterback, I feel like I'd be calling
00:50:46in a trade right now. They have their quarterback, they have Drake Bay. So that's a good fine.
00:50:53Here comes a trade. I was going to put that on Twitter. You should put that on Twitter.
00:50:56I was going to, I was going to wait until they get the number one or get the fine.
00:50:59Oh yeah. Yeah. Don't jinx it. Don't jinx it. Yeah. So I'll, I just posted yesterday. I just
00:51:04posted the one of him and it's like on the phone with Elliot Wolf. So after they get the finalized
00:51:09pick, I'll post that one. So we can, we can figure out where we're really, let's not act.
00:51:14I gave that one earlier, right? First, second, uh, eight 40 future first, future second
00:51:24starting caliber player on the line of scrimmage. Pick who that is with the Raiders.
00:51:28And I saw like three or four comments. Absolutely not. There's no way you're getting that much.
00:51:32A team got that much two years ago. And maybe it comes in a little less. Maybe they only get
00:51:39first, second, future, second player.
00:51:43That's still within the ballpark. And you have precedent. If you're the Patriots to point to that
00:51:47and say, this is what this pick is worth. Yup. And they should use that. Do you take
00:51:52Jacoby Myers back in the trade? Raiders? Only if they take, uh, Jalen Polk.
00:52:00Jalen Polk? Off your hands. You're not, what about, uh, have you been working on, uh,
00:52:06including Jalen Polk in the trade for DK Metcalf?
00:52:11Yeah. Somebody tweeted that at me last week. It's an interesting idea.
00:52:15I don't think Jalen Polk is getting you DK Metcalf outright by any means.
00:52:19It would be like, you know, if you're giving up two draft picks for DK, you do a draft pick.
00:52:24It may be Polk, you know, Ryan, let's say, let's say you and another team are offering like a
00:52:29second and a fifth, right? And the other team says, all right, we'll throw in a six and you
00:52:34say, we'll throw in Jalen Polk who grew, who, uh, Grubb has familiarity with. That is an enticing
00:52:41and unique option. I guess, unless Tampa's trying to trade for DK Metcalf, it's an enticing and
00:52:46unique option that other teams really can't match. So I, I, it's a, it's a, uh, I wish I
00:52:52remember who tweeted at me. It's a really good thought. Something to keep in the back of your
00:52:57mind. It's not going to happen outright, but maybe that's the difference in it. It pushes that
00:53:02deal across the finish line. You're still gonna have to give up other premium assets, but maybe
00:53:06that's the final piece of the puzzle that gets the deal done. Yep. All right. So, uh, on this,
00:53:12just cause I see this comment here is T Higgins going to be a free agent, Brian Hines. Yes or no.
00:53:18I still don't think so, but can they, they can just tag him too. Right. And trade them
00:53:24theoretically. Yeah. I don't think they're going to do that though. I think he's back.
00:53:29I, I, there is this model now with the dolphins, with the Eagles, where you just pay the receivers,
00:53:35you keep the quarterback happy and you figure the rest out in the draft. It feels like the
00:53:39dolphins are not the dolphins. The dolphins are doing that. And it feels like they're
00:53:44the Bengals are full steam ahead towards that. I mean, the fact that Higgins fires his agent
00:53:53and hires the same agent as Jamar chase, how are you? And then burrow comes out like the next week
00:53:59and says, we need to get a deal done with this guy. How do you not read that as anything, but
00:54:06they're setting up for him to go back and talking to people who cover the Bengals.
00:54:10They think that's what's happening. Yep. And if he does make it,
00:54:16the Los Angeles chargers are going to be on his phone immediately too, which that's when that,
00:54:21like, that's going to be the big thing for Wolf. When these guys get the free agency,
00:54:25you can offer them the most money. You can offer anyone. You want the most money. They're going
00:54:29to be able to do that. You got to get them to sign on the dotted line. That's after you give
00:54:34Cronk the bag. He got released off the Vikings. All right.
00:54:42At least if you're competing with the chargers, I think you don't have to worry about income tax,
00:54:47right? California is as high as Massachusetts or higher. I don't know. I know it's high in
00:54:51both places. I would imagine that's similar. It's not something where he's going to Florida,
00:54:56right? And it's no tax or anything. So, um, uh, here state income tax rates, 2024,
00:55:06part of being a football writer is looking up taxes. Uh, California has a, it doesn't say the
00:55:13rate, just says graduated rate. It was the NHL. They want there. Everyone was mad at the Panthers
00:55:19and the lightning. They want to have different cap, different salary caps for like teams.
00:55:25I think, I think eventually contracts will be adjusted to tax because more teams are in
00:55:32States that are impacted than aren't in they'll out vote them. And there'll be some sort of, um,
00:55:41some sort of make good there. So California, if you make more than a million dollars, 13.3%
00:55:47Massachusetts income over a million dollars subject to a 9% tax rate.
00:55:52There we go. I'm obviously not familiar with that. I had to look that up. So not that's all
00:55:56nine to 30. It's 9% of a million dollars. Don't make me do math on there's nine.
00:56:02So that's an extra, what? $4,000 for every million that you get to keep.
00:56:13It's 4% higher. I was trying to do math. I was trying to
00:56:18what's 1% of a million is a thousand, right?
00:56:221%. Yeah, I think so. So yeah, for every million, for every million you make, you get to keep
00:56:2840,000, 4,300 more in Massachusetts than he would in California. Oh, apparently it's 40,000 more.
00:56:36That's even more notable. So you make 10 million. You're talking about another half a million and
00:56:43half a million and you're not paying a taxes. Everyone's hitting us with 40,000.
00:56:50This is not a math show. This has never been a math show. I can't do that on the air,
00:56:55but you shouldn't lose teams to California over tax. I guess is the moral of the story here.
00:57:01You lose a guy to Texas. You lose a guy to, I don't know what other states don't have income
00:57:05tax. They don't have an NFL team. You lose a team to Florida. You lose a player to Florida. You lose
00:57:10a player to Las Vegas. You lose a player to Tennessee. These states don't have income taxes.
00:57:17Wyoming, when they get their NFL team, eventually, yeah, you can blame the tax.
00:57:21You lose a player to California. You can't blame the tax.
00:57:25Massachusetts, you can't complain tax Massachusetts if you lose T Higgins to the Chargers.
00:57:30So remember that. So, all right, we will wrap it up here. We got to get off.
00:57:36Taylor and Mike are coming on right after.
00:57:38They're going to do more tax math.
00:57:40Yeah, they're going to do math. I'm sure their whole show will be math. So
00:57:44very quickly before we go, I want to tell you guys about game time last Patriots game
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00:58:55download game time today. What time is it game time? So we will wrap it up there.
00:59:00Barth and I will be back on Thursday, most likely as usual to re preview that season finale.
00:59:06Hopefully we have some more insight on the quarterbacks and who might be suiting up.
00:59:10And of course, we'll be talking draft. The next round of the college football playoffs
00:59:16is also coming up. That will be completed. What's that Wednesday, right? New year's
00:59:20day one game, Tuesday night, three on Wednesday. So we will talk about those as well on Thursday,
00:59:26as they, uh, keep narrowing that down and some draft prospects there as well. So in the meantime,
00:59:31you can follow Barth on Twitter at real Alex Barth head over 98, five, the sports hub.com
00:59:35for his Patriots coverage there. And you follow me on Twitter at I am Brian Heinz and you go to
00:59:39Pat's pulpit.com for our Patriots coverage there as well. Thanks everyone for tuning in with us
00:59:45today, have a wonderful new year's and we will see you guys later this week. Bye. I see the Xavier
00:59:52Estrepo people in the chat, by the way, good call.
01:00:10This is the kind of take I'd usually yell at people.