Pat and Matt discuss the Patriots game against Tommy DeVito and the Giants
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00:00:00 All right.
00:00:01 Welcome into another edition of the Patriot Nation podcast.
00:00:04 Of course, it's an instant reaction to the Patriots' loss in the Meadowlands.
00:00:09 This of course, this episode is brought to you by FanDuel, which is the official sports
00:00:14 wagering partner of CLNS.
00:00:16 Go to fanduel.com/boston to sign up today.
00:00:20 Matt, it was an ugly, ugly game, but as I'm going to say, no matter what happened, there
00:00:28 was only one song that could be played at the beginning of this instant reaction podcast
00:00:32 playing in the Meadowlands against Tommy DeVito.
00:00:36 Cue the goddamn music.
00:00:38 Let's go.
00:00:39 This is me in the mood for a chicken cutlet right here.
00:01:01 That's what happens for dinner, Pat.
00:01:04 I love it.
00:01:05 Oh, man.
00:01:10 What?
00:01:13 Okay, that's enough.
00:01:16 What a show.
00:01:17 It brings me back, man.
00:01:18 It brings me back.
00:01:22 I binge watched that show fairly recently, I think, the last few years, and it's a hell
00:01:27 of a show.
00:01:28 I got to watch The Sopranos.
00:01:29 I'm way behind on my TV.
00:01:30 It's incredible.
00:01:31 Yeah.
00:01:32 I mean, watching this Patriots team, though, like it's not this isn't like you're watching
00:01:36 The Sopranos.
00:01:38 This feels like that TV show that you love that's in season like seven and the writers
00:01:44 are out of ideas and you know it's supposed to be like the last season of the show.
00:01:48 You're going to see it out through the last episode because you want to see what happens
00:01:55 and you put so much time and effort into it, but you're just kind of sit down in front
00:01:58 of the TV, putting it on and just waiting for the episode to be over.
00:02:02 That's the Patriots right now.
00:02:03 Right, right.
00:02:04 Look, people are, you know, traveling on the street, Simon, LFG, a top pick, top three
00:02:10 pick still secured.
00:02:11 They're playing chess.
00:02:14 Number two pick.
00:02:17 And listen, so I'm going to I'm going to talk about this in a second, but Nick's run the
00:02:22 Eastern something, something, something.
00:02:24 I'm not sure what the whole thing says, but I'm with him.
00:02:28 I'm with him.
00:02:29 I'm going to tell you it's that ain't happening.
00:02:32 Matt Jones sucks.
00:02:33 Bailey's Abby sucks.
00:02:34 They all suck.
00:02:35 They're all terrible career.
00:02:36 Wilger is terrible.
00:02:37 Like I know people like Wilger is terrible.
00:02:41 He's an awful quarterback.
00:02:43 We know this.
00:02:44 We've seen him play.
00:02:45 He's really bad.
00:02:46 Malik Cunningham should be the starting quarterback for the Patriots.
00:02:48 I just don't like why not?
00:02:51 Because you can't throw the ball anyways.
00:02:52 You literally can't throw the ball.
00:02:55 Matt Jones can't make a good throw.
00:02:57 Bailey's Abby, you know, look, man, Bailey's Abby.
00:03:02 I mean, I just I just read it to you.
00:03:03 Right.
00:03:04 But like, you know, if you if you if you head over to to my guy, who is it that I was saying
00:03:11 had the the Nessun guys at Cox.
00:03:13 So Zack Cox had a had a tweet about about his.
00:03:17 What the hell?
00:03:18 Why isn't he come up?
00:03:21 Zack Cox had a tweet about Bailey's Abby.
00:03:24 OK.
00:03:25 So this this isn't the whole game, but Bailey's Abby's air yards per completion.
00:03:31 Negative three, negative five, negative four, five, one, negative three, negative two.
00:03:38 He's not throwing the ball past line of scrimmage.
00:03:41 And when he finally did, it gets back.
00:03:43 Right.
00:03:44 I could finally throw behind the line, pass line of scrimmage.
00:03:47 It gets picked off.
00:03:48 He goes into triple coverage in a place that you just like.
00:03:52 What in the world was he?
00:03:55 How would he ever think that was going to be a good pass?
00:03:57 And then Bobby O'Kerke knocks on the pass on third down.
00:04:00 And if he didn't knock that pass down, Deion Banks is undercutting that route.
00:04:03 It was going to be another interception.
00:04:05 So it's just one of those things where it's like they're both bad.
00:04:08 And at this point, I don't understand.
00:04:12 And we've talked about this before.
00:04:14 I talked about what Keegan this week.
00:04:15 We talked about it after after the Colts game.
00:04:19 I just don't understand how you can continue to put Matt Jones in the game unless you're
00:04:26 actively trying to lose games.
00:04:28 I just what have you seen from Matt Jones that makes you think that he can win you games
00:04:34 because I have seen nothing from him when he is.
00:04:38 He's gotten worse with every game this season.
00:04:41 Remember week one.
00:04:42 Remember week one when the Patriots had three touchdowns against a team that just went into
00:04:46 the Super Bowl and looked like they were they almost were able to complete a game winning
00:04:51 drive like remember that Matt Jones.
00:04:53 I'm not sure if he does.
00:04:55 I know.
00:04:56 And that was two months ago, like two and a half months ago.
00:05:00 Right.
00:05:01 And watching him fall like this is crazy.
00:05:04 And you just can't you can't trust him out there.
00:05:07 And I mean, you can't trust Zappi.
00:05:09 You can't you can't trust any of the guys are putting out there.
00:05:11 But you know, I think it's pretty clear that Mac is not the guy and you can't be a guy
00:05:17 who's playing like that, yelling at your teammates, even if they're messing up, which it looked
00:05:20 like they were.
00:05:21 You just can't be that guy.
00:05:23 Yeah.
00:05:24 So I don't I don't know if I'm on board with Cunningham, but I think it's got to be somebody
00:05:31 other than Mac from here on out.
00:05:32 I think you probably give Zappi a couple of games here.
00:05:35 And just the other thing is, you are kind of not I mean, you're not trying to lose games,
00:05:40 but you're trying to lose games.
00:05:43 And I mean, what are the explanations you have?
00:05:46 Zappi is probably your best option for that right now is a guy who can make this look
00:05:49 somewhat competent, but and like give you a chance to evaluate your players.
00:05:53 But also he's going to lose you games.
00:05:57 Cunningham is not even on the roster, so they would need to sign him and free up a roster
00:06:00 spot if that's what's going to happen.
00:06:03 Which you know, there's a lot there's a lot of guys on this roster who are just bodies.
00:06:06 It wouldn't be hard for them to cut somebody and bring him up.
00:06:09 Yeah, well, and so this is yeah.
00:06:12 And look, this is my so there are two quotes here, right?
00:06:15 Two things that I want to bring up.
00:06:16 One of them is Ashley.
00:06:17 Ashley J said both are not good, but Zappi is a better player.
00:06:21 And then the other one was a little bit earlier.
00:06:23 Charlie Foxtrot here said, does Mac have the yips?
00:06:26 And so this is so this is my thing.
00:06:28 I think that Mac is a better player than Bailey Zappi.
00:06:31 I think in practice, you see that he's a better player than Bailey Zappi.
00:06:36 If you were going to sit at practice and we're not watching practice anymore, but like.
00:06:41 If you were going to sit at practice and watch a full practice, you would look at it and
00:06:45 say, Mac Jones making the right read.
00:06:46 He's making the right throws.
00:06:48 He's commanding the offense better than Bailey Zappi is.
00:06:50 And you'd say, OK, you know, Zappi is fine.
00:06:53 He does OK, but it just doesn't look as smooth as it does with Mac Jones.
00:06:57 But then when Sunday rolls around and you get real bullets flying and you get actual
00:07:02 defenders coming at you that can hit you, Billy, for whatever reason, Mac Jones just
00:07:08 completely loses mind.
00:07:10 And whether he has the yips or whether he I don't know what the reason is, but it's
00:07:16 awful.
00:07:17 It's awful.
00:07:18 And you can't do it.
00:07:19 And so, like, no matter what happens in practice, we've seen enough now in the games where we
00:07:25 just we can look at it and just say, man, he can't get it done on Sunday.
00:07:29 He can't.
00:07:30 I'm sorry.
00:07:31 Yeah, well, I think I think the most eye opening thing is you watch Bailey Zappi have much
00:07:36 better pocket presence than Mac Jones.
00:07:39 And that was one of the things that was supposed to be a strong point of his.
00:07:42 And it's just it's gone.
00:07:44 And whether it's the yips or development or himself or, you know, whatever, whatever we
00:07:48 want to say that's doing it, he has it's gone.
00:07:52 And Zappi can move around better in the pocket.
00:07:55 So I think, you know, when it comes to I think in some ways the single most important thing
00:08:00 for this offense for the rest of the way is evaluating the offensive line.
00:08:04 I don't even think you can do that with Mac Jones right now because he is so unpredictable
00:08:09 back there and has no feel for what's going on.
00:08:13 Yeah.
00:08:14 Zappi at least has some degree of feel for what's going on there.
00:08:17 And that's the other issue with Cunningham.
00:08:19 I like the idea of bringing him up.
00:08:21 But if you're doing that and it's going to be all QB run, then you're kind of wrapping
00:08:27 it up on evaluating your pass blocking for the year.
00:08:30 Right.
00:08:31 You're at Thanksgiving.
00:08:32 And I think, you know, we got to see what we got in these guys, because you're trying
00:08:37 to figure out who your offensive line is going to be next year.
00:08:40 So I mean, I would go Zappi for that reason.
00:08:43 And you know, you look at the standings standings right now, if Arizona is able to beat the
00:08:47 Rams today, Pat's are going to be in the driver's seat for the number two pick.
00:08:52 And then it'll be it's the Bears that via the Panthers there at number one.
00:08:57 And then a whole bunch of teams with three wins.
00:08:59 So if the Patriots were to lose out, they'd be guaranteed the number two pick.
00:09:03 And depending on what the Panthers do, you know, you might be able to get the number
00:09:06 one overall pick.
00:09:07 That's true.
00:09:08 By the way, as has Jacoy Myers, just scored another touchdown for the for the Raiders.
00:09:13 But nevertheless, I just you know, look, it's it's a situation for me that I just I it makes
00:09:21 it drives me crazy, right?
00:09:23 It drives me crazy watching the games.
00:09:24 And again, it's you know, I really do think it has something to do with with that.
00:09:29 But one of my big things for me is that looking with the way Billy's I played today, he didn't
00:09:33 play great.
00:09:34 He was fine.
00:09:35 He was fine, right?
00:09:36 He threw a really bad interception.
00:09:39 He threw a few other almost interceptions, and he made some nice plays.
00:09:44 But when he comes out and plays with confidence, the team can feel that, right?
00:09:51 The team can feel that he's playing with confidence, and then they play with more confidence as
00:09:55 well.
00:09:56 And so like you see, Ramondi running harder, you see guys making blocks for longer, you
00:10:00 see him avoiding guys and making throws and guys making plays in the passing game, right?
00:10:05 Like you see these things happening that just frankly weren't happening with Matt Jones.
00:10:11 And it's like, okay, the office watered down and it's not what but like, it doesn't matter.
00:10:16 It doesn't matter.
00:10:17 It's like the guys play better when Bailey's app is on the field, and they just look better
00:10:22 that the players look better when when Bailey's app is on the field.
00:10:25 He's not doing anything different.
00:10:27 It's just I think I think a lot of that has to do with two things.
00:10:30 One when the quarterback is benched in the backup comes in, everybody else is like, Oh,
00:10:34 we better we better maybe in our games up here.
00:10:37 I also think he brought up the stat about how far he's throwing the ball down the field.
00:10:42 It's easy to play with confidence when every single play is one read throat to a guy who's
00:10:46 10 feet from you.
00:10:48 And I think we saw this last year too, because Zapie mostly played bad defenses where they
00:10:54 could win with simple game plans.
00:10:56 And when it's a simple game plan, I think everybody has more confidence.
00:11:00 I think it's clear everybody in this offense, and that's, you know, Mac included, but not
00:11:05 just him doesn't know what's going on with the bill of Brian, you know, complicated offense
00:11:10 and didn't know what was going on last year.
00:11:12 And, you know, we saw the mental errors in 2021 to with McDaniels there, you know, Aguilar
00:11:17 and Johnny Smith were the guys we blamed at the time, but I'm starting to think it really
00:11:21 is just the players, regardless of the coaching and that these guys need to be in a simple
00:11:26 offense and a simple offense can get you a touchdown or drive or two.
00:11:31 It's just not sustainable over the long run, which is perfect for what the Patriots need
00:11:35 for the next month and a half as they go for the number one overall pick.
00:11:37 Right.
00:11:38 But yeah, no, season's over.
00:11:40 I said this on Twitter, but I'll say it again here.
00:11:44 None of these quarterbacks should be in the room next year.
00:11:46 None of these guys should be in the building.
00:11:48 It should be surprised three or four new quarterbacks when we come out for training camp in July.
00:11:54 Like that's you can't you can't trust any of these guys.
00:11:57 You need new leadership to I think emotionally for whoever's going to be there.
00:12:01 And it's just you're going to have to tear it all down.
00:12:05 And I agree.
00:12:06 The result of knowing that now is that you're going to go with the next six weeks with lame
00:12:11 duck quarterback play where, you know, it doesn't mean we can debate this all we want,
00:12:16 but it's not going to matter at the end of the day.
00:12:18 I don't think any of us thinks that any of these options are going to become a franchise
00:12:21 quarterback.
00:12:22 So well, and that's that's the thing is that it just you can't win with these guys.
00:12:29 You just you can't you cannot win with these guys.
00:12:31 And look at I know they're receiving quarters and that good.
00:12:34 I know that their skill players aren't aren't good enough and that their offensive line
00:12:38 is OK, but not great.
00:12:39 But at the end of the day, I just I don't understand when like you can't win with Mac
00:12:48 Jones, you can't.
00:12:50 And we've seen that like you cannot win with Mac Jones.
00:12:54 You just can't like he was supposed to win, supposed to win with his mind.
00:13:01 The idea behind Mac Jones is that he was the guy that could see things pre snap, make the
00:13:07 right read post snap, get the ball to the guy to the open guys, confuse defenses and
00:13:13 you know, and make plays not like Tom Brady, but similar to what Tom Brady used to do,
00:13:19 where Brady would, you know, mentally understood the game so well.
00:13:23 That was that was the whole thing about him.
00:13:27 Right.
00:13:28 But I don't I don't understand, like we don't see that from him at all.
00:13:34 He almost always makes the wrong read.
00:13:36 He makes awful throws like so often.
00:13:40 It's it's just bad.
00:13:41 And he just again, like I think he's it looks like he has zero confidence.
00:13:47 Like you just watch him in a watch him play.
00:13:49 It just looks like he's like struggling out there on every single play.
00:13:53 He's completely broken.
00:13:54 You know, pocket presence is gone.
00:13:57 And I I'm going to be honest, I was somewhat skeptical of some of the the X's and O's football
00:14:03 knowledge coming out of Alabama.
00:14:04 Not that you're dumb coming out of there, but the tape showed a guy who was making a
00:14:07 lot of throws on his first read because it's Alabama and he had some of the best receivers
00:14:11 in the country to throw to.
00:14:12 Right.
00:14:13 I think now that he's put in more difficult situations in the NFL, you know, his mind
00:14:18 is not able to do that at NFL speed.
00:14:22 It's just it just can't handle that.
00:14:23 He looks like a rookie out there mentally right now, still in year three.
00:14:28 And the mechanics also have just they've never been fantastic, but they've gotten worse now
00:14:32 with every single year.
00:14:33 So it's all falling apart.
00:14:37 And we came into the season thinking that Max Jones could be, you know, a Kirk Cousins
00:14:42 level guy here.
00:14:43 And what I will say is, I think in some ways, this is it's better for the direction of this
00:14:50 organization that this happened and it went this way than if he stayed at the quarterback
00:14:55 play we got last year, because if it's a quarterback play you got last year, you end up in a Daniel
00:14:59 Jones situation where you feel like he might be something.
00:15:01 So you got to pay him.
00:15:03 But nobody really feels good about that.
00:15:05 And you'd rather I mean, obviously, the best case is that he's the franchise quarterback.
00:15:09 But if he isn't, the next best is that you want to know, you know, I know that he's not
00:15:13 fully tear it down.
00:15:14 I agree.
00:15:15 I couldn't agree more.
00:15:18 And so, you know, we'll see.
00:15:19 It's so funny.
00:15:20 The chat's going crazy right now.
00:15:21 People are people are shouting about the fact that people are defending Max Jones.
00:15:24 No one's defending.
00:15:25 There's not one person.
00:15:26 I think he's all these dudes.
00:15:28 And it's like Zappi.
00:15:29 So that we played better than Mac and the offense looked better with him out there.
00:15:32 But they got exactly one touchdown drive and one of the drive that could have been scoring
00:15:36 in one of the worst interceptions.
00:15:37 I mean, Zappi's thrown some of the worst interceptions we've seen this year.
00:15:41 So he's not he's not good.
00:15:43 He just is a different brand of bad that Matt than Mac Jones that I think right now lets
00:15:48 you see what's going on with the other guys a little bit better.
00:15:51 Right.
00:15:52 And Katie, you did not hear that right now.
00:15:53 I did not say at one time I didn't say he played well because he didn't play well.
00:15:58 He does play with a little bit more confidence than than Mac Jones.
00:16:01 Right now, Mac Jones is playing with no confidence.
00:16:04 Zappi plays with too much confidence.
00:16:06 Yes, that's his issue.
00:16:08 He needs to do.
00:16:09 I do think it rubs off on the rest of the I mean, I think that you see the players out
00:16:13 there playing better.
00:16:15 And whatever the reason was, I don't know what the reason is.
00:16:18 Right.
00:16:19 And it could be like you said that the quarterback gets fancy and thinking, oh, should we better
00:16:22 play better?
00:16:23 Right.
00:16:24 Or else we're going to get benched, too.
00:16:25 Or maybe they just think, well, now that Mac is out, we got to you know, we have to play
00:16:28 harder because we have the back of quarterback instead of starting quarterback.
00:16:31 Or maybe who knows what the reasoning is.
00:16:34 But you just you get more out of your guys when Zappi is your quarterback, the one Mac
00:16:38 is.
00:16:39 And like, it doesn't make sense, but it happens.
00:16:42 So like, I don't know what the reasoning is.
00:16:44 Yeah.
00:16:45 Well, I think looking at this big picture, too, and I think when we look at kind of the
00:16:50 failures in the offense since twenty nineteen and even when Tom Brady was here, I think
00:16:58 one of the the way one of the ways the offense was always so successful with Brady was that
00:17:04 Brady was so smart and understanding the game and also so good at teaching the other players
00:17:09 and getting them on the same page with him that they could run these incredibly complex
00:17:14 offenses where players have to hold a lot of information in their heads at one time
00:17:19 and then go out there and make the plays.
00:17:22 And I think that to an extent, they're trying to do a lot of the same stuff now.
00:17:29 And it's just too much for these guys.
00:17:32 And it's not like that.
00:17:33 And also on some of the receivers, I think that's one of the reasons it looks better
00:17:36 when it's simple, because these guys are you know, they got a lot in your head trying to
00:17:40 figure out.
00:17:41 And then also when they break it down to their simple concepts, you know, a lot of it's the
00:17:46 same the same stuff over and over again.
00:17:50 And it has been since twenty twenty one with McDaniels.
00:17:53 I mean, that go back to early in the game, Devante Parker getting targeted on that slant
00:17:59 when he was one on one and, you know, almost picked off and he slips on it or whatever,
00:18:03 never had a chance.
00:18:04 You know why that never has a chance?
00:18:06 Because basically every single time that they the Patriots get a receiver one on one over
00:18:10 there, he's running a slant.
00:18:11 That's right.
00:18:12 Every time that's what's going on.
00:18:13 And if it isn't a slant, if he's doing something else, Parker's not that quick.
00:18:17 So if the corner gambles and misses, he can recover and get back.
00:18:21 And that's this.
00:18:23 That's where this offense needs some speed and needs some arm strength because nothing
00:18:29 about it threatens you down the sidelines, not the receivers, not the tight ends, not
00:18:34 the quarterback.
00:18:35 The offensive line can't protect long enough to make it happen either.
00:18:38 And, you know, that's if you can't attack down the sides of the field ever, you're going
00:18:43 to have a really, really tough time.
00:18:45 Right.
00:18:46 One.
00:18:47 And that's part of the reason why, you know, I don't know, but there which, by the way,
00:18:51 I just to get off on a little tangent here, Jalen Hyatt is is the guy they want to take
00:18:57 on Thornton to be.
00:18:59 They drafted Tyco on Thornton to be a speed guy who could push the ball down the field,
00:19:03 you know, who would allow their quarterback to push the ball down the field and could
00:19:05 win on comeback routes and deep routes and things like that.
00:19:08 He can't do that.
00:19:09 Jaylen Hyatt can.
00:19:11 He is that guy that the Patriots want to take on Thornton to be.
00:19:13 So I don't even think Hyatt hasn't even been that good for the Giants this year.
00:19:17 He's had he hasn't had many catches.
00:19:19 He was just going against J.C.
00:19:20 Jackson today.
00:19:21 And Tommy DeVito made a couple of nice throws, which credit the Tommy DeVito.
00:19:25 I mean, I thought he played a relatively decent game.
00:19:29 I thought the Giants scored a lot, but I thought he was all right.
00:19:34 He was serviceable out there.
00:19:35 He's a better backup quarterback than the Patriots.
00:19:39 He's tweeted earlier, and it's mind boggling.
00:19:44 Tommy DeVito, I think, is the best quarterback in New York right now who's healthy, which
00:19:48 is wild to think about.
00:19:49 But I mean, like it's pretty hard to boil like, right.
00:19:54 It's pretty hard to argue against that.
00:19:55 You know what I mean?
00:19:56 So, yeah, I don't know.
00:19:59 You know, the and Charlie's just mentioning the officiating.
00:20:03 I mean, I don't the Pop Douglas play.
00:20:05 I just don't understand how that's not a penalty.
00:20:07 I just it's a clothesline like it's a clear clothesline.
00:20:10 And you said you're talking about your safety in the chest, but you can't do that to the
00:20:15 head.
00:20:16 You just can't.
00:20:17 And if for whatever reason, if that was the correct call and that's not a penalty, then
00:20:20 we should be changing the rule because you shouldn't be able to just do it.
00:20:23 And that's second or third time this year we've seen a Patriots receiver get practically
00:20:27 decapitated out there and no flag.
00:20:29 No flags, which is a little bit frustrating.
00:20:32 To say the least.
00:20:34 Yeah.
00:20:35 Yeah.
00:20:36 Yeah.
00:20:37 I'm sure.
00:20:38 I wonder I wouldn't be surprised if we see a fine on that this week, which is, you know,
00:20:40 great.
00:20:41 It's just great.
00:20:42 The Mario Douglas back on the field.
00:20:43 Correct.
00:20:44 And it doesn't help you in that game either.
00:20:45 Yeah, it's just it's just bad.
00:20:48 It's just bad.
00:20:49 And listen, people, you're right.
00:20:51 People are correct in wanting the Patriots to lose.
00:20:54 Right.
00:20:55 You want to see the Patriots lose at this point.
00:20:57 There's no point in winning.
00:20:58 It doesn't matter.
00:20:59 You know, it's like.
00:21:02 What the Jets in the last game of the season in twenty twenty one.
00:21:05 Right.
00:21:06 And so they ended up with the number two pick instead of the number one pick.
00:21:08 And they drafted Zach Wilson instead of Trevor Lawrence.
00:21:10 Like it changes the trajectory of your of your team, right.
00:21:14 Your entire franchise.
00:21:15 Now, the Jacksonville won today.
00:21:16 They're in first place in the AFC South.
00:21:18 And meanwhile, Zach Wilson is on the bench again, this time bench for a guy that like
00:21:24 has never been a starter at any level.
00:21:25 Well, not on any level, but at any point of his career in the pros.
00:21:30 And so, like, you know, winning doesn't solve things right now.
00:21:36 But.
00:21:38 I also believe you can't intentionally lose.
00:21:42 You can't.
00:21:43 No, can't tank because too many guys that want to win.
00:21:47 And if you're if you're out here trying to lose games like what happened at the end of
00:21:51 the game today was unacceptable.
00:21:52 I understand.
00:21:53 I get it.
00:21:54 They're in field goal range, but like they didn't even try.
00:21:56 They didn't even try to score a touchdown, like win the freaking game.
00:22:02 It's right there.
00:22:03 And instead of trying to win the game, they went for the tie to go to overtime.
00:22:07 Like what the hell is that?
00:22:08 And this is it's the, you know, the snowball effect of a bunch of things that, yeah, they
00:22:12 probably should go for it.
00:22:13 But also every single time they've asked is happy to throw the ball more than a foot down
00:22:17 the field.
00:22:18 He's been throwing it right to defenders.
00:22:20 So you feel like you have to play for the tie.
00:22:22 And it's just the whole thing is a losing strategy because you put yourself in that
00:22:27 spot by mismanaging the personnel.
00:22:29 And we talked for a while about how we talked this offseason about the youth movement.
00:22:33 We're happy they got youth guys in there.
00:22:36 Well, turns out they were banked on young guys being good.
00:22:39 All the young guys think, you know, they should hear bank on Zappi being a bad quarterback.
00:22:43 He can't do it.
00:22:44 You're banking on Pierre Strong and Kevin Harrick's being backup running backs.
00:22:48 They can't do it.
00:22:49 You're banking on Tyco and Thornton being at least a backup wide receiver.
00:22:52 He barely even looks like a guy who belongs on the NFL team out there right now.
00:22:56 They're banking on Jack Jones being able to step up and be one of your starting corners.
00:23:00 He is off the team now.
00:23:02 Who else?
00:23:03 Who else is in here that I can name for this?
00:23:06 All of them.
00:23:07 Anyone.
00:23:08 Anyone that you rely on.
00:23:09 Yeah.
00:23:10 Banking on Antonio Maffi as a rookie to come in and at least be a good guard for you, backup
00:23:14 guard.
00:23:15 And he can't even be a backup guard for you right now.
00:23:17 You don't feel comfortable with him out there.
00:23:20 Basically every single young player that you've asked to take on a bigger role here and play
00:23:26 well has not lived up to it.
00:23:28 And you just can't, you can't build a theme that way.
00:23:31 That's the issue.
00:23:32 And the veterans that they've signed haven't been good either, but that's a, it's a different
00:23:36 problem.
00:23:37 If you're drafting guys who can't even give you competent backup level play, you got no,
00:23:40 you got no shot, right?
00:23:41 Yeah.
00:23:42 It's just tough, man.
00:23:43 And that's, you know, I feel like they've just, they've missed, they've just missed
00:23:48 and missed and missed and missed and missed.
00:23:51 And that's just, it's my God, it's, it's bad, you know?
00:23:55 And again, it's, it comes down to the reason why Bill Belichick is going to be out of here.
00:24:01 And the reason why you can't, you just can't continue doing what they've done.
00:24:08 It was bad.
00:24:09 And they won't.
00:24:10 Oh, here's the thing.
00:24:11 I mean, after that, I think everybody sees the writing on the wall.
00:24:15 It's been there for a while and it's only getting bigger and bigger there.
00:24:19 There's no way that this continues in the next year.
00:24:22 It's going to be substantial changes of some kind.
00:24:25 There's no way craft's okay with this.
00:24:26 There's no way Bill is okay with this, but I don't think he's going to be around to see
00:24:29 what happens next.
00:24:30 And I think, I think it's pretty clear.
00:24:34 You need a fresh voice of some kind, even if, you know, I think Bill can still be a
00:24:37 very good coach in this league and I don't think he's totally lost it or anything, but
00:24:41 I think you, you need new ideas, you need a fresh voice emotionally as a leader in that
00:24:47 room for those guys to connect with.
00:24:50 And you know, it's, you were stepping into the abyss now.
00:24:53 Well, I think that the post Brady post Bill world is here.
00:24:57 It's about to get very cold outside for the Patriots and we'll see if they can find ways
00:25:03 to get through this.
00:25:04 And you know, it's, you're going to have ammo here.
00:25:06 You're going to pick high and you make the right choices.
00:25:08 You can be right back in the NFL championship conversation in two, three, four years.
00:25:14 If you play your cards right, but every team is in that spot.
00:25:19 You got to execute when you get there.
00:25:20 And there's a lot of teams that get to that spot and mess it up.
00:25:23 So that's the first step here.
00:25:25 How do you not mess it up?
00:25:26 Yeah, that's it.
00:25:27 I agree.
00:25:28 All right, let's do a quick ad and then, and then we'll just kind of finish up.
00:25:30 We don't have too much longer to go here, but let's do a quick ad and then, and then
00:25:33 we'll come back.
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00:26:46 All right.
00:26:50 Um, yeah, I just, I don't even look.
00:26:57 It's ugly.
00:26:58 It's as ugly as it's ever been for the Patriots.
00:27:00 At least, at least in my lifetime or that's not true, but at least that in my lifetime
00:27:05 that I can remember, uh, not in my lifetime because it's been pretty bad in my lifetime.
00:27:09 Um, 1992, they went two and 14 and they were really, really bad.
00:27:13 Um, but you know, it's one of those things that people just, people forget those things.
00:27:19 And by the way, they went to 14, the Seahawks went to 14 and they did a coin flip to see
00:27:24 who would get the first, the Patriots got the first pick.
00:27:25 So, uh, that's why you ended up with drew blood.
00:27:28 So we're not Rick Meyer who won rookie of the year and then sucked over for the rest
00:27:32 of his career.
00:27:33 But, um, nevertheless, so, you know, but look, I mean, you see what one quarterback can do.
00:27:39 The Texans were terrible last year.
00:27:41 I mean, atrocious last year, they fired their coach.
00:27:45 They hired Yamiko Ryan's a young coach who the guys would like and respect.
00:27:51 They draft CJ Stroud, they draft tank Dell, they draft will Anderson.
00:27:58 And now all of a sudden I know they lost today because of, because Matt Amador, what tended
00:28:01 to 58 yard instead of a 57 yard, but like they were clothing right there, the right
00:28:07 on the edge of the playoffs immediately, right away.
00:28:12 And so you need that.
00:28:14 You need the change.
00:28:15 You got to change, get rid of bill, get rid of, you know, I, in my opinion, it can't even
00:28:20 be Mayo.
00:28:21 You got to just, the whole coaching staff's got to go.
00:28:23 Everyone's got to go.
00:28:24 Yeah.
00:28:25 And I'm, yeah, I think there's, I could be on board with Mayo only because I think of
00:28:30 how, how things have worked out there with D'Amico Ryan's down in Houston.
00:28:35 Mayo might be a similar, but I think one of the things I think I do want to see here is
00:28:39 a guy who's been in multiple spots.
00:28:42 I think you ideally want a guy who's a former player.
00:28:44 I think we've seen that work out pretty well, but it's not, it's not a must, but I'd like
00:28:48 to have it if that's there.
00:28:50 I think a must is a guy who's coached in multiple situations and has learned from multiple guys.
00:28:54 That's, I think that's something that you want to bring in.
00:28:57 And then, you know, you, you go from there and you figure it out.
00:29:01 I do want to say, I forgot to mention before we were talking about, you know, counting
00:29:05 on young players and rookies to step up.
00:29:08 Didn't even mention Chad Ryland in that.
00:29:12 And you know, moving on from Nick Fulk was absolutely the right move.
00:29:15 He's a 39 year old kicker who lost you games last year because he couldn't even reach the
00:29:19 end zone on kickoffs and teams were turning kicks on you all the time.
00:29:22 Who was missing kicks short under 50 yards.
00:29:26 You just, you can't, you can't bring a guy like that back.
00:29:29 You know, he's not the guy.
00:29:31 So you have to draft somebody.
00:29:33 And you know, we, I think we knew that there were, I don't know if Ryland's the guy or
00:29:36 not.
00:29:37 I think we knew there were going to be issues and you know, with young, young kickers, things
00:29:42 happen, but I think you'd like to see him play better than this.
00:29:47 I also think you feel better about this if, if he misses a kick and it's the difference
00:29:51 between, you know, six and five and five and six, you feel a little bit better about it
00:29:55 than two and eight versus two and nine right now, right now it just feels like another
00:29:59 thing on the pile.
00:30:00 Yeah.
00:30:01 And, but then people will argue at the ads they have been doing, you know, that you need
00:30:05 the draft pick.
00:30:06 And so you, you don't need to win the game.
00:30:07 And I get that.
00:30:08 I will say, Adam Benetary as a rookie in 1996, missed some really, I mean, some really easy
00:30:15 kicks.
00:30:16 I remember the Jacksonville game.
00:30:17 I think that I think they ended up winning, but he missed like four kicks.
00:30:21 And I think he ended up kicking the game when he feel cool, but he missed a bunch of kicks
00:30:24 in that game.
00:30:25 I think you get the game winning field going overtime, but like it was like the game shouldn't
00:30:30 even been in overtime.
00:30:31 He was like over three kicking.
00:30:32 And then he finally, finally hit one to win the game.
00:30:34 But it just, you know, guys are going to struggle.
00:30:37 That's going to happen.
00:30:38 I think we've seen round be up and down a little bit, a little bit inconsistent.
00:30:43 You know, but it's, it's situation that I think that bears watching for sure, because
00:30:49 you don't know if he's going to be your guy moving forward.
00:30:52 Right.
00:30:53 So that's, that's another, the other thing here too, you only have so many assets to
00:30:56 go acquire new players and you know, kickers not usually going to be a huge use of assets.
00:31:01 You're looking at a day three pick or minimal free agent money, but it would be nice if
00:31:06 you can go into the future and knowing you have your kicker and your pundra locked up
00:31:10 on cheap deals, rookie contracts the next three years, and you should be able to keep
00:31:15 them around after that and not have to worry about it.
00:31:17 That would be a nice thing.
00:31:18 So the next guy did not have to worry about, we can't say that comfortably yet.
00:31:22 Um, so yeah, it's frustrating.
00:31:25 Uh, Jim Nagy, by the way, just tweeted out, uh, QB dominoes already starting to fall in
00:31:30 college football lesson 24 hours after regular season ends wild, wild West in here, a wild,
00:31:36 wild West is here.
00:31:37 I'm sorry.
00:31:38 Wait till the reports start getting out.
00:31:39 So now Maggie runs a senior bowl and so he may be getting information about guys, you
00:31:47 know, transferring to other places.
00:31:50 He may be getting information about some guys, uh, thinking about going to pro and some guys
00:31:55 not or what, I don't know.
00:31:57 Um, but that is, that's really interesting to me.
00:32:02 Um, for a team that, for a team that needs a quarterback, um, that's going to be, that's
00:32:12 going to be something that bears watching because again, how, you know, how is that
00:32:17 going to impact what the Patriots do, you know, and, and who is going to be available
00:32:22 when the draft rolls around, right?
00:32:24 Is Kate Williams going to want to be around?
00:32:25 I don't want to stay Drake may going to come out.
00:32:29 You know what I mean?
00:32:30 Like, I think those guys are going to come out, but I don't know.
00:32:32 I think the names to watch JJ McCarthy, Shader Sanders, um, Quinn Ewers from Texas are the
00:32:38 guys who may or may not come out.
00:32:41 You know, JJ McCarthy is a guy who kind of likes it as a developmental guy in theory
00:32:46 for a while, but the track record on quarterbacks who only started one year in college is not
00:32:52 great and I think he's shown some real flashes, but for anybody who watched that Michigan,
00:32:58 Ohio state game, you know, it's not like JJ McCarthy's out there tearing it up.
00:33:03 No, I didn't trust him to either.
00:33:05 And I don't think, I think that it's a less to do with him and more to do with the offensive
00:33:09 line.
00:33:10 I think they felt like they could just mull Ohio state on the ground and we've seen them
00:33:14 do this.
00:33:15 They've had issues with the pass protection, but not with the run blockings.
00:33:17 They just like to run the ball and it works.
00:33:19 So I don't think it's an indictment of JJ McCarthy, but he does not have a ton of experience.
00:33:25 And you know, I like the tools and I like the upside and I like the mentality he has.
00:33:30 He's not a guy I feel comfortable with using, feel comfortable using a high draft pick on
00:33:34 from what we've seen in college.
00:33:35 There's just not enough out there against high level teams.
00:33:38 So about Domino's falling, he's a guy who I wonder if he would consider going back to
00:33:43 college for another year.
00:33:45 Um, we'll see Michigan presumably with a win next Saturday, we'll be getting some, some
00:33:51 playoff looks here until we get opportunities against bigger opponents and that could change
00:33:55 things.
00:33:56 But when you were just an interesting case, because you have to think with arch Manning,
00:34:01 you got to think you were just not going to be the quarterback of Michigan, Texas next
00:34:04 year, right?
00:34:05 Arch Manning is there.
00:34:06 You got to assume he's going to start.
00:34:08 And so if you were, doesn't want to come out, he's going to have to leave and go somewhere
00:34:12 else.
00:34:13 Right.
00:34:14 I mean, because what choices he have, you know, the Texas is going to be like, Hey,
00:34:17 we're like, we're starting, we're starting Manning next year.
00:34:21 If you're here, fine.
00:34:22 You can be his backup, but you're not playing.
00:34:24 And so if he doesn't want to come out to the NFL because he thinks like there are some
00:34:28 things I have to still find two in my game, then he can, you know, he can look at it and
00:34:33 say, no, I'm going to stick in another year.
00:34:35 I'm going to transfer somewhere else as opposed to stay in a Texas.
00:34:38 So, you know, a lot of decisions need to be made by those guys.
00:34:41 Shador Sanders, like you said, is an interesting case.
00:34:43 Like does he want to stay in?
00:34:45 He's a guy I think is going to stay in because I think he and his dad both feel that he wants
00:34:51 to be a top 10 pick.
00:34:53 He's not going to be a top 10 pick this year.
00:34:55 Almost guaranteed.
00:34:56 He's going to be a top 10 pick this year.
00:34:57 Travis Henner has to say another year you have, you know, all worldwide receiver out
00:35:02 there, right?
00:35:04 And so you have an all worldwide receiver.
00:35:07 Your dad's the coach, your team's getting better.
00:35:09 You got to assume that your offensive line is going to be a little bit better next year
00:35:11 too.
00:35:12 And so you say, let's stick it through one more year, try to get some Heisman buzz and
00:35:16 then try to be, you know, a top 10 pick next year and, you know, and come out next year
00:35:20 with Travis Hunter at the same time.
00:35:21 I just, you know, but that's an interesting question.
00:35:24 Is Shador Sanders going to come out or not?
00:35:26 And so those, those questions, and of course there's a long way to go with that stuff,
00:35:29 but it is interesting to kind of see how the draft is going to shake up and then what the
00:35:34 Patriots are going to do, even if they get the number two pick, how does that affect
00:35:38 the Patriots and what do they decide to do?
00:35:40 And then, you know, we've mentioned, I'd mentioned this before on here too, what they
00:35:44 decide to do if they pick at number two, it's probably a new GM and you know, how does he
00:35:51 feel about whatever quarterback is going to be available there?
00:35:54 Assuming one of these guys, Mayer or Caleb Williams goes at number one, how does he feel
00:35:59 about the guy at number two?
00:36:01 How does he feel about the scouts that he didn't hire in their evaluations?
00:36:06 I think, especially with how many holes the Patriots have on this roster, I think trading
00:36:12 down is probably a smart thing.
00:36:13 I know those are hated words here in New England, but it's one of those spots that you need
00:36:18 a lot of ammo.
00:36:19 And if you're in a quarterback spot in the draft and you don't like the quarterback on
00:36:23 the board, trading down can net you a huge, huge return.
00:36:28 I'm not a Drake May fan.
00:36:29 I'd rather trade down the draft to Drake May, I'll tell you that right now.
00:36:33 But if you can, you know, find a way to move down from, let's say they pick second to seventh,
00:36:42 pick up an extra first next year and a second rounder in there and a second rounder this
00:36:47 year type of thing for a move like that, whatever, whatever it would end up being.
00:36:52 I think that's probably better for you and you can still get, you know, some elite talent
00:36:56 this year.
00:36:57 If you're in the top 10, not Marvin Harrison Jr., but there are other really good receivers
00:37:01 and take a swing on the second round quarterback.
00:37:05 Um, well, and that was, you know, I, I released my first mock draft on actually on Thanksgiving
00:37:10 and it came out and you know, that's what I had them doing at number three, they trade
00:37:14 down to 10, pick up an early, early second round pick and get a 2025 first round pick.
00:37:21 And to me, those are the types of things where it's like, you know, I know you don't want
00:37:26 to trade down.
00:37:27 I get it.
00:37:28 I understand.
00:37:29 We don't want to trade down as Patriots fans.
00:37:30 We don't want to look at this and okay, we're trading down because you want to draft the
00:37:33 guy that's there.
00:37:35 But if you can get a hall like that, then why not?
00:37:39 I mean, look at who was at three Miami was at three.
00:37:43 They trade back to 12 with, with Sam Fran and pick up three first round picks.
00:37:49 And those first rounders, I think turned into Tyree kill and Jalen Ramsey for him.
00:37:54 So that's what I mean.
00:37:55 Like it's like, what are we talking about?
00:37:57 You know, like, and then at 12 they drafted, um, didn't they draft water at 12 or did they
00:38:03 move up to draft water?
00:38:04 I think they moved back up.
00:38:06 Yeah, right.
00:38:07 But either way, it's like, you know, you, you end up with Jalen one when it's, I mean,
00:38:12 it's like, when, like you say, yeah, you trade one of the first time picks for Tyree kill.
00:38:15 Like you just, you need more assets.
00:38:20 You need more assets.
00:38:22 Right.
00:38:23 And so I don't, oh, that's right.
00:38:25 Matt said, which he's right.
00:38:26 They moved up to six.
00:38:27 They traded a first round pick and move up to six to draft water.
00:38:30 But nevertheless, they, they traded their own first round pick and moved up, but I had
00:38:34 those multiple first round picks and were able to do that.
00:38:36 So I just look at well for him.
00:38:39 It did.
00:38:40 It did.
00:38:41 And then, like you say, you have that other first round pick that you trade for, for Tyree
00:38:43 kill.
00:38:44 And it's like, well, now you have Tyree kill and Jalen one on the same team and you feel
00:38:49 like two is now good enough.
00:38:51 So look, I'm not saying the Patriots are going to turn it around that quick, but I am saying
00:38:55 that like, even if they end up at two, it doesn't mean they have to take it.
00:39:01 They have to draft the guy at number two.
00:39:02 You know what I mean?
00:39:03 It just, that that's, that's one of the things for me.
00:39:06 Look, maybe Martin Harrison is a guy.
00:39:08 Marvin Harrison jr.
00:39:09 Looks incredible.
00:39:10 He looks at the best player I've ever seen.
00:39:11 He was unbelievable.
00:39:12 I think he might be the best player in the draft.
00:39:16 And you know what, if you're, if you're not sold on the quarterbacks and Marvin Harrison
00:39:19 jr.
00:39:20 Is there, there's a certain part of me that's just like, take them.
00:39:23 Don't overcomplicate it.
00:39:24 If next thing is up here at points by overcomplicating it, take a guy who might be a top 10 receiver
00:39:29 in the NFL the day he first day he stepped onto the field and go from there.
00:39:33 Cause if you go out there and you keep the offensive line together, you sign a guy like
00:39:37 Baker Mayfield and you draft a Marvin Harrison jr.
00:39:41 Those moves alone, plus keeping the band together might be enough to make this a seven wind
00:39:47 team next year.
00:39:48 And you're moving in the right direction.
00:39:49 And then you go from there and you see where it takes you.
00:39:51 A hundred percent.
00:39:52 Either way, I shouldn't do this cause I, cause I'm going to write it down.
00:39:56 I'm going to do it anyways.
00:39:57 I'm tell you right now.
00:39:59 All right.
00:40:00 Trade a fourth round pick to the Chicago bears for Justin Fields.
00:40:05 Come on.
00:40:06 That's so good.
00:40:07 See, though, it's so good.
00:40:08 They're going to have the number one pick.
00:40:09 They're going to Jeff Caleb Williams.
00:40:10 What do you get Justin Fields for?
00:40:12 What do you need Justin Fields for?
00:40:13 He's in the last year of his deal.
00:40:15 Yeah.
00:40:16 Like, I, I mean, what the hell?
00:40:18 Give it a shot.
00:40:19 I know.
00:40:20 And then if you draft a quarterback, you get the quarterback.
00:40:22 But if you don't, you have a kid, you see what happens with them.
00:40:25 Give them a year.
00:40:26 If he sucks, well, then he sucks and you whiffed on him, but you get another top five pick
00:40:31 or able to draft your quarterback the next year.
00:40:33 Yeah.
00:40:34 Well, the other thing too, that I would think about here is similar, but not quite the same
00:40:40 move.
00:40:41 If you're picking at two in Arizona is at three and they want whatever quarterback is
00:40:47 going to be there at two, because they're ready to move off of Kyler Murray and you
00:40:50 can move back a spot and get Kyler Murray and Marvin Harrison Jr.
00:40:55 If you can find a way to make something like that happen, I'm in, I mean, I don't, I don't
00:40:58 know how good Murray is.
00:40:59 I think that's still up for debate here if he's a franchise guy, but you know, you can
00:41:04 get him without any of the bonus money attaching and be able to cut him.
00:41:09 And you're getting a former number one overall pick for relatively cheap draft acquisition
00:41:14 there and the receiver.
00:41:15 You know, I, I don't know exactly what the structure of that deal would look like, but
00:41:19 that's something I think you'd have to consider.
00:41:20 It's a really good point.
00:41:22 If that is what it comes down to.
00:41:26 I mean, look, you know, we're sitting, we're sitting over here talking about, you know,
00:41:29 draft draft strategy in and it's, you know, not even, not even December yet.
00:41:34 So it's, we're down bad Patriots fans are down bad right now.
00:41:38 It's just, it's tough.
00:41:39 You know, it's, it's really hard.
00:41:41 It's not great.
00:41:42 But you're what we're looking at here are options for bridge quarterbacks, guys who
00:41:47 can be a quarterback for a season while you figure it out.
00:41:50 And if they're good, they're good.
00:41:52 And if not, you were planning to move off of them at some point.
00:41:54 Anyway, that's feel that's probably what Murray is.
00:41:57 Murray's kind of in the Jerry Goff tier of guy who you're just taking because nobody
00:42:01 else wants him and you see if you can do something with him.
00:42:06 And you know, you, you go from there.
00:42:08 I will say we got one positive from today and that's that I think Ramond Ray has gotten
00:42:13 better with each week.
00:42:14 He started off the year, I think banged up and not looking great.
00:42:19 Should at least have a running back one to feel good about going into next season.
00:42:24 And that's not a lot.
00:42:26 No, I know.
00:42:28 And he'll be in the last year of his deal.
00:42:29 And so they're going to have to make a decision about, you know, do they want to, do they
00:42:33 want to sign him to an extension?
00:42:34 Do they not?
00:42:35 But you know, how are they, what are they going to do?
00:42:39 Right.
00:42:40 And so, um, but it's a decision that, that needs to be made at some point anyways, but
00:42:44 knowing that you have a player like that for next year is, is certainly helpful.
00:42:48 And look, you talk about the Texans, man, the Texans are doing it.
00:42:53 Damien Pierce obviously is a rookie last year and has played okay, but he's been hurt a
00:42:56 lot.
00:42:57 And you know, then you look at guys like Devin Singletary, who's in there, who was a cast
00:43:03 away from the bills and it's been incredible.
00:43:05 You know?
00:43:06 So it's like, you just don't know.
00:43:08 You don't know how, how things are going and, and Katie, I'm glad we make no sense.
00:43:13 So see you later.
00:43:14 Thanks for coming through.
00:43:15 Appreciate you.
00:43:16 Um, but, uh, you know, but we'll see.
00:43:19 Um, John's asking about the Eagles Buffalo game.
00:43:22 That's, it's a good game.
00:43:23 It's only seven, nothing right now in the pouring rain, it looks like in Philadelphia.
00:43:27 But if I had to pick, I would say if I had to choose that game, I would say it's probably
00:43:31 going to be the Eagles that win that game.
00:43:32 I think Eagles are a better team than Buffalo.
00:43:34 Buffalo is so weak in the middle right now.
00:43:37 Their linebacker room, I think got decimated by injuries and yeah, that's rough.
00:43:41 You know, this field is just tweeted out.
00:43:43 The chiefs last eight offensive drive has have totaled 150 yards.
00:43:50 Talk about a wall, dude.
00:43:52 Jeez.
00:43:53 Um, that's wild.
00:43:54 Uh, I got, I got two things here.
00:43:56 One, um, the, the type of Marvin Harrison jr.
00:44:01 We haven't talked at all about the irony of him.
00:44:04 You know, dad's a cult legend playing in new England of all places.
00:44:09 And I had texted Pat this the other day, but I was just the hypothetical scenario of the
00:44:13 Patriots draft Marvin Harrison jr.
00:44:16 And in two, three years, whatever it is, they finally landed their quarterback of the future
00:44:21 and it's arch Manning and you get Manning and Harrison together in new England.
00:44:25 That would be really, really funny and, uh, would make some, some people mad.
00:44:32 I think it'd be very funny to be Indy and you know, the giants in the playoffs with
00:44:36 that too.
00:44:37 That would be pretty crazy, wouldn't it?
00:44:39 That'd be appreciate you, man.
00:44:41 Thank you.
00:44:42 Um, and I, I remember I, I got one other thing and I'm going to forget it if I don't say
00:44:47 it now.
00:44:48 I, one of the things I'd gone said before the season looking at the schedule was that
00:44:52 I kind of felt like the Patriots division record is what was going to tell us about
00:44:56 this team.
00:44:57 I thought, you know, two wins or fewer, they're not a playoff team, four wins or more.
00:45:02 And they're probably in three wins and they're a bubble team.
00:45:07 Yeah.
00:45:08 We're looking at a scenario right now where the pads might go three and three in the division.
00:45:12 And those are their only three wins on the season.
00:45:14 It's great.
00:45:16 500 in the AFC is not a win outside of it.
00:45:20 That is, I don't know, I don't know what to do with that information.
00:45:22 The NFL is weird, but at least the schedule had to, at least we get, we get a throwbacks
00:45:28 game next week against the chargers.
00:45:31 The red, red jerseys are back.
00:45:33 That's right.
00:45:34 That, and that will be, I, I'm guessing that that might be, you know, Patriots win.
00:45:39 That's probably the Brandon Saley gets fired week.
00:45:41 As the Patriots won that game.
00:45:42 I mean, Brandon, stay, we've got to get fired.
00:45:44 The Peters.
00:45:45 That's one of those where he's touching down in LA and cleaning out his, his office there.
00:45:53 Steelers after that on a Thursday night, which I'll be at that home chiefs at home on a Monday
00:45:58 night at Denver on a Sunday.
00:46:01 It's a one o'clock game against the chargers and then three prime time games.
00:46:04 And then you get bills and jets to finish it out, which in theory, in theory, the Patriots
00:46:09 can still go four and two in the AFC East.
00:46:12 And I think that would be very funny.
00:46:15 It would be, but then they'd have like the number five pick.
00:46:17 All right.
00:46:18 So who knows?
00:46:19 It's not good for the future of the team, but you know, I can't be funny.
00:46:22 You're right.
00:46:23 If they were above 500 in the AFC East and they're only four wins of the season with
00:46:26 those four games and they finished four and 13, that'd be insane.
00:46:29 And that's, you know, I've want like this team's bad and I want them to have a high
00:46:35 draft pick because I think they need it.
00:46:37 But also I can't get mad about them, you know, beating FCC.
00:46:40 I just can't do it.
00:46:41 Yeah, I agree with you.
00:46:42 Uh, by the way, Alex Bars just tweeted this out and so I will read this to you.
00:46:46 It is outrageous.
00:46:48 He said, per pro football reference, there have been 110 instances since the start of
00:46:52 the 2021 season of a team allowing under 62 or less than or equal to 62 points, 62 points
00:47:00 or less in a four game stretch.
00:47:03 41 of those times the team went four and oh 51 of those times the team went three and
00:47:10 one 15 of those times the team went two and two, two of those times the team went one
00:47:17 and three.
00:47:18 The Patriots have done that and they've gone on for 62 points they've allowed in four games
00:47:27 and they've gone on for when this is the thing that in some ways I think if we want to have
00:47:32 a note of optimism here, the thing that should make you feel better is that in the last five
00:47:40 games here, six games here, every single game since that Saints won, it's been a one score
00:47:47 game late in the fourth quarter and the Patriots have had a chance and they just outside of
00:47:52 the bills game, they've been completely unable to execute.
00:47:55 Yeah, there are.
00:47:56 I mean, look at this.
00:47:57 That's one score lost the Eagles, one score lost at the Dolphins, one score win against
00:48:02 the Jets, lost the Raiders win over the bills.
00:48:06 Dolphin then second Dolphins ended up being two scores by the end, but one score to the
00:48:09 commanders, one score to the Colts, one score to the giants.
00:48:13 If you look back through Patriots history, you look at the five and 11, 2000 Patriots
00:48:17 that turned around and became a super bowl champ the next year, that team had a string
00:48:22 of one score losses.
00:48:23 They were awful in close games and you know, even with just some luck that can flip around
00:48:30 on you, I think the Patriots have gotten, I think this is genuinely a bad, bad Patriots
00:48:35 team.
00:48:36 I think they are a very, very unlucky Patriots team, both when it comes to injuries and late
00:48:41 game performance and the late game performance I think has been a continuation of what they've
00:48:45 done the first 55 minutes of the game.
00:48:47 I mean, a lot of these are low scoring, ugly games and the offense never finds the gear
00:48:51 and the opponent finds it once and that's the difference.
00:48:54 But you know, you make the, you make the right moves this off season and you can go from
00:48:59 a two or three win or a four win team or whatever they end up being this year to a seven, eight,
00:49:03 nine win team, just you get some things going in your favor and things change.
00:49:08 Obviously they can also bottom out and you never know.
00:49:13 You know, I think, I think the whole, the whole thing for me, right, is that it comes
00:49:19 down to the quarterback you draft and the coach that you hire, right?
00:49:23 Because you look at, look at the difference right now between Houston and Carolina, right?
00:49:30 Houston, Houston drafts CJ Stroud.
00:49:33 They hire Tamiko Ryan's, they're making a playoff push, right?
00:49:37 They lost today, but they played well against, you know, a good Jacksonville team, right?
00:49:44 Okay, fine.
00:49:45 So okay.
00:49:47 Then you look at Carolina who hired Frank Reich, a cast off from, from Indianapolis.
00:49:53 They draft Bryce Young who hasn't looked good and Frank Reich, I'm sorry, he's not a good
00:49:58 coach.
00:49:59 He's not a good coach.
00:50:00 You see some of the offensive play calling like what the hell is going on over there?
00:50:04 And so yes, of course it has to do with getting the guys, but you also have to get the right
00:50:10 coach in as well.
00:50:12 Draft the right quarterback, hire the right coach.
00:50:15 This is the biggest off season in Patriots history since, I mean, I don't even know,
00:50:20 you know, for a long, long time because this now is what's the future going to look like,
00:50:26 right?
00:50:27 And it's all on craft.
00:50:28 And I think it's also important to note when looking at those two guys that the Panthers
00:50:33 have, you know, their receivers are an aging Adam Thielen and Terrace Marshall, who I did
00:50:39 not, I did not like coming out.
00:50:40 I was not a fan of his and he has not played well.
00:50:43 And the Texans got Nico Collins, who they've developed very nicely in tank Dell, who's
00:50:48 been an immediate success.
00:50:50 And right.
00:50:51 The Panthers thought they had their left tackle and a quantum and he has not played that well
00:50:55 this year.
00:50:56 And the Texans had a franchise left tackle.
00:50:58 And I think just some of those differences, you know, I think it's, I think there's coaching
00:51:02 and I think there's the actual quarterback play where Stroud has been better.
00:51:05 But I also think the Texans have done a much better job around the quarterback position.
00:51:09 And that's what makes me worried about the Patriots draft and the quarterback is that,
00:51:13 you know, stride going into a situation where he's got Nico Collins in there as a, as a
00:51:18 developmental guy, the equivalent in new England is Taiwan.
00:51:22 Thornton.
00:51:23 Does anybody think type one Thornton is going to become what new Collins has been no nectar?
00:51:27 No, that's not, that's not happening.
00:51:30 Yeah.
00:51:31 The Mario Douglas might be able to be a tank Dell type guy and they got Dalton Schultz.
00:51:34 I think you can replicate that tight end play.
00:51:39 But you know, you need to get lucky in there.
00:51:41 That's you gotta find your Nico Collins this year in the second round or the first round
00:51:46 or wherever it is that you're going to go draft a wide receiver.
00:51:49 And it doesn't mean you can't sign someone, right?
00:51:52 It doesn't mean you should also use that one as well.
00:51:54 Also fine.
00:51:55 Yeah.
00:51:56 It's going to, it's going to have to be, I mean, it's, there are so few players of this
00:52:00 offense who I think should be back on this team next year.
00:52:02 Yeah.
00:52:03 Cause I think, I think the thing that's become obvious to is not only are some of these players
00:52:07 not good, the fact that some of these guys have been there for three different coaches
00:52:11 and have seemingly not understood the offense at any point, or at least two different coaches.
00:52:15 All right.
00:52:16 It's not the coaching.
00:52:17 It's that these guys like a bill O'Brien, he's not a perfect offensive coordinator.
00:52:21 I have some issues with him, but he knows what he's talking about and he is a good teacher.
00:52:26 If you got guys who have been NFL professionals who couldn't pick up what they were doing
00:52:29 last year and can't pick up what they're doing this year, there's, you should have no reason
00:52:33 to have faith that they're going to pick up what the next guy is doing.
00:52:37 You just, yeah, it's bad.
00:52:38 It's bad.
00:52:39 Yeah.
00:52:40 I do have a quote here by the way.
00:52:42 Okay.
00:52:43 Let's get it.
00:52:44 This is from Jabril peppers in the locker room after the game on the hit on pop Douglas.
00:52:48 Yup.
00:52:49 Quote, it's just crazy.
00:52:51 They preach all this player safety stuff, but that doesn't get flagged, but I've been
00:52:54 fine maybe two, maybe two or three times for clean hits.
00:52:57 So that pissed me off too.
00:52:59 They even looked up at the jumbo Tron and there was still no flag, but you can't say
00:53:02 anything about the refs in this league.
00:53:04 It is what it is to me.
00:53:06 That's a joke.
00:53:07 You can't say you care about player safety and not flag that play.
00:53:10 I think the last line is the most important one there.
00:53:13 A hundred percent.
00:53:14 And, and it's important to remember the NFL doesn't actually care about player safety.
00:53:19 Like they don't.
00:53:20 They can say that they do.
00:53:22 They don't actually care about player safety.
00:53:25 I'm sorry.
00:53:26 Care about the appearance of player safety.
00:53:28 And this is, and someone said this and I, so I, I'm going to take credit for it because
00:53:31 I can't remember who was it said it, but they said the NFL is making all of these ridiculous
00:53:38 fines and calls for a very good reason because when they go to negotiate with the, with the
00:53:47 NFL players association, the NFL PA is going to be focused on these things and not on the
00:53:54 things that the NFL actually cares about, which is playing more games and getting more
00:53:59 money and doing so the, the, the players are going to say, Hey, look, you can't keep finding
00:54:05 us $40,000 for hits that are legal hits.
00:54:07 What are you doing?
00:54:08 And they'll say, well, and they'll say, we'll get rid of that and exchange.
00:54:12 We had an NGO.
00:54:13 That's it.
00:54:14 That's a hundred percent.
00:54:16 It's a negotiating tactic there.
00:54:17 And it's, I mean, it's, it's that coupled with the fact that it's also like they want
00:54:23 to have the appearance of caring about it.
00:54:25 They want to be able to say to any lawsuit that happens about player safety or to any
00:54:29 media person that says, Hey, we did this thing.
00:54:33 And you know, it's, the reality is most people are casual fans of the NFL and they've never
00:54:38 looked into this stuff and they're going to say, Oh man, that was a brutal hit.
00:54:41 And they're going to say, Oh, he got fined for it later.
00:54:43 They're going to say, Oh, okay, that's good.
00:54:44 The NFL is doing something and they're not going to think twice about it.
00:54:47 And that's the NFL knows that.
00:54:48 And they're going to take advantage of that fact.
00:54:50 So, um, and you know, JJ Watts been on an all year long.
00:54:56 I'm glad he said, I'm glad he said something because I was watching some of these clips
00:55:00 thinking this is wild, but you know, I'm not an NFL player and maybe, maybe there is merit
00:55:04 to some of these fines and I'm just not understanding it.
00:55:07 But him coming out of that, it makes me feel more confident in my opinion that this is
00:55:11 wild.
00:55:13 By the way, the, uh, chiefs are down two scores to the Raiders right now.
00:55:17 It's going to be one more in this stack maybe, but probably not necessarily though.
00:55:22 Hunter Henry by zero, zero catches for zero yard city by Hunter, Hunter Henry, Hunter
00:55:30 Henry.
00:55:31 Let me tell you, I had, I was writing out my prop bets column for Pat's pulpit and I
00:55:36 had the over on Hunter Henry yards and then I changed it at the last second to be over
00:55:40 on remand.
00:55:41 And then I had the one on the Patriots and rushing yards and boy, am I glad I did go.
00:55:43 By the way, speaking of the hat prop bets, he went one in one and I went one in one.
00:55:48 I had the, uh, I, we were talking about this.
00:55:50 I had the Miami dolphins, um, anytime touchdown, Miami dolphins, defense, anytime touchdown,
00:55:57 which is outrageous that that hit on the most insane play of all time.
00:56:01 And then Keegan, uh, for you last week had the, uh, no to three straight scores by anyone
00:56:08 in this game, in the, in this Patriots game, which is like, seems, which was plus money
00:56:13 by the way, which is complete insanity that that was plus money.
00:56:16 Um, I, uh, literally three scores all game.
00:56:20 So like going back to that dolphins defensive score real quick, man, that might be the worst
00:56:28 executed hail Mary I've ever seen.
00:56:30 Cause it's cause in the hail Mary, it's not just like four guys running down for a jump
00:56:35 ball.
00:56:36 It's like four positions in it and there's roles for where people were supposed to be.
00:56:40 And it's basically supposed to be like one guy who's going for the ball, one guy behind
00:56:45 him to catch any deflection that way.
00:56:48 One guy in front to catch any deflection that way.
00:56:51 And then just like another guy in the scrum going for it.
00:56:55 And not a single player got near the football.
00:56:59 And when Javon Holland catches that Javon Holland catches that football, the three,
00:57:04 literally the three fastest guys on the jets are behind him in the end zone.
00:57:08 Add the play.
00:57:09 Yeah.
00:57:10 Well, it's a lot easier to run that back when it's you versus the five most unathletic guys
00:57:15 on the other team.
00:57:17 Like that's, uh, it's just the, the, the sheer incompetence there to not be able to run a
00:57:23 basic hail Mary.
00:57:24 It's not on the quarterback.
00:57:25 That's 100% on the receivers for not being able to make any play on the catch.
00:57:29 I'll credit, I'll credit Garrett Wilson for running like, I think a total of 170 something
00:57:33 yards on the play down to the goal line.
00:57:36 It's made the way back and almost Ben Watson bit, but, um, hilarious.
00:57:42 By the way, the, the bills just took the lead against the Eagles 10, seven and the chiefs
00:57:46 have third and goal at the one yard line.
00:57:48 So we'll see what the chiefs can do, but, um, for anybody listening to this tomorrow,
00:57:52 I'm sure you'll, that'll be, that'll be later on.
00:57:55 You're going to hear the score updates.
00:57:56 I'm sure you'll like that.
00:57:57 Yep.
00:57:58 Yep.
00:57:59 So anyways, all right, that's it.
00:58:00 I can't talk about this game anymore, man.
00:58:02 I got it.
00:58:03 We look, we'll be back later on this week to, to, I guess, discuss, you know, the chargers,
00:58:08 I suppose, and what they're going to do this year and all this crap.
00:58:11 You know, no, we are going to do Pat, for anybody listening, you see our, our Twitter
00:58:15 handles there.
00:58:17 Send us any mock drafts that you do between now our shows on Wednesday night, send us
00:58:22 any screenshots of any mock drafts you do between now and Wednesday night.
00:58:26 And we'll, uh, we'll take a look at some of the best ones.
00:58:28 We'll pull them up on the show Wednesday night.
00:58:29 And I think we're going to start doing this on the Wednesday shows.
00:58:31 We'll start looking at mocks that people send it.
00:58:33 I love it.
00:58:34 I love it.
00:58:35 Let's get the mock draft started early.
00:58:36 Fight up the mock draft machine.
00:58:38 Get out there.
00:58:39 Oh, I've got it.
00:58:40 During this episode, Pat, I opened a tab of PFF to get the mock draft machine going after.
00:58:46 So good.
00:58:47 It's so good.
00:58:48 And by the way, Freddy B's asking about Marvin Harrison Jr.
00:58:50 He really is that good.
00:58:52 He's a hundred percent that good.
00:58:53 I promise you.
00:58:54 Really?
00:58:55 He's not just a possession receiver.
00:58:56 He's fast.
00:58:57 He's an incredible route runner.
00:58:59 He's the best receiver in football and it's not really close.
00:59:02 The only reason I think I'm, I would be okay trading out of a spot where Marvin Harrison
00:59:06 Jr. is available.
00:59:07 It's because some of the other receivers in this draft also look freakishly good.
00:59:12 Malik neighbors is still the one that comes to mind for me down in LSU with what he's
00:59:16 done with Jaden Daniels there.
00:59:17 And you know, if you're trading back from two to eight and you can still get neighbors,
00:59:22 not that I think neighbors is better than Marvin Harrison Jr.
00:59:25 But I think if you could get, I would take neighbors and additional draft picks over
00:59:29 just Marvin Harrison Jr.
00:59:30 Right.
00:59:31 Right.
00:59:32 Personally, I think you, that's up for debate, but yeah.
00:59:36 Time to get into some college film in the next couple of weeks.
00:59:38 Not a couple of months.
00:59:39 I'm going to be living in that.
00:59:42 So Cardinals pick.
00:59:43 Oh yeah.
00:59:44 Oh yikes.
00:59:45 That looked like a Billy Zappy throw.
00:59:46 Jeez.
00:59:47 The hell was that?
00:59:48 It was behind Pukunuku.
00:59:54 It was behind even, I mean, I guess he was throwing a Pukunuku, but that was behind where
00:59:58 he even was.
00:59:59 You know what the funniest thing I saw the other day was Pat?
01:00:01 What's that?
01:00:02 This is during the Thanksgiving game.
01:00:04 So the Lions golf looks good there, but that may be nearing, you know, it's ceiling of
01:00:09 what he can do.
01:00:10 And I was saying a lot of the Lions are a team that I think could win a Super Bowl,
01:00:14 but they need a quarterback.
01:00:16 They need, you know, a gunslinger who can come in there and take the ceiling off that
01:00:21 offense and be able to propel them into the future.
01:00:24 You know who the Lions need Pat?
01:00:26 Matthew Stafford.
01:00:27 Oh, Matthew Stafford.
01:00:28 I don't think I support that guy anymore, but yeah, just for a little bit.
01:00:36 That would be really funny if the golf Stafford trade, you know, reversed itself.
01:00:42 That's crazy.
01:00:43 Yeah.
01:00:44 I mean, I think that's a good word back and forth.
01:00:45 So yeah, all right.
01:00:46 Is that a show for us?
01:00:47 That is it.
01:00:48 That is it.
01:00:49 I got to get Jesus Christ.
01:00:50 I got to go.
01:00:51 It's the way it goes.
01:00:52 Hold on to Nagan in the chat saying, would you with my thing, would you pass on grunt
01:00:59 for Hunter Henry and an additional draft?
01:01:01 Additional draft pick?
01:01:02 I believe Gronk was a second round pick and Hunter Henry was a first round pick now.
01:01:07 I think Hunter Henry was also a first round pick of a second round pick.
01:01:12 I think I don't think he was a first round pick.
01:01:15 Hunter Henry was a second round pick.
01:01:17 So every single team passed on Gronk once in their Gronk prospect.
01:01:20 It's not even at all.
01:01:21 Marvin Harrison Jr. is that is that is correct.
01:01:25 Henry was taken 35th overall.
01:01:28 I believe that Gronk was like 40, let's say 40, 45, 42.
01:01:32 OK, how about that?
01:01:34 So Gronk got taken later than Hunter Henry.
01:01:36 So I understand the example, but I don't think those are the right people.
01:01:39 I would put in those spots and I think Hunter Henry is also kind of a was always kind of
01:01:45 a no, I get his point.
01:01:48 His point is that, you know, he's that good, right?
01:01:52 No, no.
01:01:53 And I get the point.
01:01:55 The reason I'm saying is that Malik neighbors is like, you know, also very high up there.
01:02:01 It's like he could be a Justin Jefferson type guy.
01:02:05 And there have been a lot of scenarios.
01:02:07 A surefire guy in the top 10 and another guy drafted in the teens who was questionable
01:02:12 and the guy in the teens ends up being way better.
01:02:14 That's a relatively common occurrence.
01:02:16 So, yeah, I also think I also think it's wide receiver like.
01:02:21 If you don't have the best wide receiver in the league, but you have a very, very good
01:02:25 wide receiver, it's one thing to have a crap wide receiver.
01:02:29 If if your wide receiver turns out to be very, very good and not the best player in the draft.
01:02:33 Well, that's still OK, because your team like you need you have so many holes on this team.
01:02:40 They need a lot of things.
01:02:42 And so getting extra draft picks to take another to take another wide receiver that could be
01:02:47 could also be very good.
01:02:51 To me, isn't a bad thing.
01:02:52 So yeah, and it's and it wouldn't be a bad thing to take Marvin Harrison Jr. either.
01:02:56 Like I do think this is up for debate and it's not going to be mad if they take them.
01:03:01 I'll tell you that much.
01:03:02 Yeah.
01:03:03 So, all right.
01:03:04 That's a show.
01:03:05 We're out of here.
01:03:06 So, yes, send us our send us your mock drafts and we'll we'll look at them on the show on
01:03:10 Wednesday and discuss.
01:03:13 And I guess we'll talk about the chargers and, you know, the the ongoing tank, I guess,
01:03:21 is what we'll call it.
01:03:23 The Brandon Staley effect.
01:03:25 The ongoing tank that just like I'll tell you, man.
01:03:30 I'll tell you, I think the chargers are going to find a way to friggin lose this game because
01:03:35 Brandon Staley.
01:03:36 Yeah, yeah, I've had I've had this one marked as like a sure win for a while, regardless
01:03:40 of the records of the teams, because it does feel like that kind of game piss everybody
01:03:44 off the Patriots win this game.
01:03:47 But listen and listen, this is we talked about this, but like I've mentioned it before, but
01:03:52 I can never root for the Patriots to lose.
01:03:54 I was sick to my stomach when they lost the game today.
01:03:56 Sick to my friggin stomach when they lost the game.
01:03:57 Remember when I wanted to hit it for him, but also because I want to see the Patriots
01:04:01 win.
01:04:02 But then as soon as the Patriots game is over, they say, well, hey, at least you got the
01:04:06 draft pick, right?
01:04:07 Like it's just it's bad.
01:04:09 And this is this is this is as bad as it can be, you know, as bad as it's been, certainly
01:04:15 with Belichick, for sure.
01:04:16 Obviously.
01:04:17 Right.
01:04:18 I mean, this is this is a team that hasn't lost 10 games since 2000.
01:04:22 So like, you know, they're just not get it.
01:04:25 And we might be less than a week away from that.
01:04:28 Right.
01:04:29 Right.
01:04:30 So.
01:04:31 But anyways.
01:04:32 All right.
01:04:33 Thanks for listening, guys.
01:04:34 We appreciate it.
01:04:35 And we will be back with you on Wednesday night, hopefully doing some mock draft content
01:04:38 as well.