👉 La actriz y empresaria gastronómica Patricia Sheuer ha sido liberada bajo caución juratoria tras su declaración ante el juez Peluso. El caso, que se mantiene como homicidio culposo, ha generado polémica debido a la rápida liberación de Sheuer. La defensa argumenta que la acusada padece un síndrome de despersonalización disociativo, lo que podría haber influido en los eventos que llevaron a la pérdida de una vida.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Patricia Schawer has just been released on bail.
00:09This is the news we have to give.
00:11She has just been released.
00:13She went out through one of the doors of this Alcaidía No. 15,
00:17here in the neighborhood of Chacarita, on Guzmán Street.
00:20Guzmán at 300.
00:22She also has an entrance and exit on Rodney Street,
00:24which is the parallel to this artery,
00:28where we are right now.
00:30But the news is that she has just been released on bail.
00:37The actress, the gastronomic entrepreneur Patricia Schawer,
00:41who this morning declared before Judge Peluso
00:45about an hour, an hour and a half.
00:47She did not answer questions,
00:50which she will surely answer in the future,
00:53but under the condition of being entitled,
00:57of presenting herself when her lordship,
00:59when the judge requires it,
01:01she has just been released.
01:04I went black,
01:06among one of the words I would have said to the judge.
01:11I left, I left completely.
01:13I don't understand what happened.
01:15I don't understand what happened to me.
01:17It was 10 or 15 tremendous seconds
01:21that cost the life of a 60-year-old Brazilian person
01:26and that has another, her partner,
01:29in a state of gravity,
01:31with some improvement in the last few hours,
01:34according to what has been reported
01:36from the Fernández Hospital.
01:38It is a fact that this person,
01:41this gastronomic entrepreneur actress,
01:45would have, for some time,
01:47some facts that have to do with the psychological,
01:52that he has it medicated
01:54and that this would have caused him,
01:57that happened to him yesterday around 10,
01:5910 and a half in the morning,
02:01but that he has had some disorder
02:03in some other opportunity last year in his house,
02:07which, medicated, medicated,
02:10does not make his life impossible
02:13normal, with absolute normality.
02:16It will be necessary to see,
02:18in fact, studies have been done,
02:19his defense lawyer told us
02:22prior to this departure.
02:24Studies have been done and all his studies
02:26in renowned health centers
02:29here in the city of Buenos Aires
02:31had come out satisfactorily.
02:33It will be necessary to see what yesterday
02:36could have caused him,
02:37if it is this anomaly,
02:39this depersonalization disorder,
02:43as it is known,
02:45the one that yesterday, for 10 or 15 seconds,
02:48can be seen in a video that has not transcended
02:51how she comes down Libertador Avenue
02:55and when she gets to the street,
02:56when she sees the Alvear Avenue,
02:58she keeps going straight,
02:59she can't bend, she can't bend,
03:01and she wakes up
03:03when the airbag of her vehicle explodes.
03:06Even people who were around
03:09tell her that under her vehicle
03:11there was a person.
03:13That is the moment
03:14when she realizes what had happened.
03:17It is at the moment when she falls
03:19and realizes that the situation,
03:22unfortunately, was very complicated
03:25because there was a person who was already dead,
03:27at the dessert, when the faculty arrived,
03:29the people of the S.A.M.E.,
03:31and that she could not sincerely explain
03:33what had happened to her,
03:35what had happened to her.
03:36The juridical cause
03:38is that she has not paid bail to remain free,
03:41simply giving her word
03:43that she will go to the court
03:45when it is necessary,
03:47she can return home.
03:49This, evidently, Javier,
03:51keeps the face as a guilty homicide,
03:54that is, within the lowest penalties
03:57of our Criminal Procedure Code.
04:00Exactly.
04:01But here begins...
04:02Exactly, Javier.
04:03Exactly.
04:04Here begins the controversy, Javi,
04:06because neither you nor I will be able to answer it.
04:09We will turn to the professional help
04:11of Mr. Claudio Greco
04:12in what has to do with pathologies
04:14that can trigger this situation
04:17that Patricia Shegwer describes.
04:20Now, one sees on one side
04:23the loss of a life
04:25and on the other, someone
04:27who, just hours later, goes home,
04:29and that...
04:31that...
04:32such an asymmetric relationship
04:34attracts attention, at least.
04:37I don't want to fill the jails
04:39of people who actually
04:41suffer from a pathology
04:43and not painful criminal conducts,
04:45because here, evidently,
04:47he didn't want to run over.
04:48One in a thousand times
04:49he would go back on his feet
04:50to not...
04:51not to be a protagonist of this event again.
04:53But, as on the other hand,
04:54the consequence is fatal,
04:55it is irreversible,
04:56it must also be said,
04:57it must also be said,
04:58someone who goes home,
05:00who promises and swears
05:02to follow, adjust,
05:04and maintain the law,
05:05does not mean that he is innocent, right?
05:07There is a cause and a process,
05:09but one tends to say, of course,
05:11confinement, prison,
05:13is synonymous with guilt.
05:15Someone who goes home
05:16is synonymous with innocence,
05:18and in the middle there are shades,
05:19there are grays,
05:20and they are not like that.
05:21I rely a little on you, Claudio,
05:23to analyze it later,
05:24I don't know if to debate it.
05:26What can be the pathologies
05:28that lead to this situation,
05:30to these momentary blackouts,
05:32of her who says,
05:34everything turned black?
05:35Well, in principle,
05:36I will clarify that a syndrome,
05:37a syndrome is a set of signs and symptoms.
05:40A syndrome is not a disease,
05:42to clarify.
05:43The syndrome is precisely a reading
05:46that a professional of mental or physical health does,
05:49which evaluates,
05:50depending on that set of signs and symptoms,
05:52the possibility of a basic pathology.
05:55That said, I say, well ...
05:57So, if you have a syndrome
05:58or some mental health problem,
06:00and you are medicated,
06:01or you were medicated,
06:03you can't handle it,
06:04or at least you would have to have
06:05the authorization of a doctor,
06:07of a psychiatrist,
06:08to really let you get on the wheel.
06:10Let's clarify two issues.
06:12These syndromes are called dissociative syndromes,
06:15because precisely the dissociative,
06:17that the person who suffers
06:19a depersonalization syndrome
06:21or derealization,
06:23which are two similar but different syndromes,
06:26what is precisely dissociated from his body,
06:30and dissociated from his emotions,
06:32does not lose the ability
06:34to understand what is happening.
06:36That's why the anguish
06:37in depersonalization syndrome.
06:39For example,
06:40depersonalization syndrome
06:41can make me be here,
06:43and I'm looking behind me,
06:44and I can tell you
06:46how I'm talking,
06:48how I'm feeling,
06:49as if I were no longer
06:51inside my body.
06:53The derealization syndrome
06:55is when I no longer begin to know
06:57what is outside.
06:58Depersonalization,
06:59excision and dissociation of the person,
07:01derealization,
07:03dissociation,
07:04and loss of knowledge
07:06of the external world.
07:07Now,
07:08these syndromes appear
07:10when there is a fact
07:12of deep anguish,
07:14of chronic anguish,
07:16of traumas,
07:17of stress,
07:18of traumatic situations,
07:19catastrophic.
07:20Why?
07:21Because dissociation
07:23is a way that the mind has
07:25to protect itself from pain,
07:27to protect itself from situations
07:29that we believe we cannot dominate.
07:31For example,
07:32deaths,
07:33catastrophes,
07:34situations of loved ones.
07:35Now,
07:36well,
07:37this syndrome,
07:39what it does generate
07:41is a lack of perception
07:43of what happens on the outside,
07:45but also on the inside.
07:46Yes?
07:47The syndrome
07:48is a way to defend yourself
07:50against a reality.
07:51Many times they are temporary,
07:53and all of us,
07:55those of us who are here,
07:56and the people who are watching us,
07:58every day and all our lives
08:00we have small syndromes
08:02of depersonalization.
08:03When?
08:04When we are facing
08:05stressful situations,
08:06when we are facing
08:07traumatic situations,
08:08there is a moment
08:09when we leave.
08:10Then, quickly,
08:12our psyche,
08:13the psychic system,
08:14makes us return.
08:16Why?
08:17Because the syndrome
08:18of dissociative depersonalization
08:21is a way
08:22that the human has
08:23to defend himself
08:24against pain.
08:25Now,
08:26when there are deep traumas,
08:27when there are really
08:28events that mark life,
08:30rapes,
08:31abuse,
08:32accidents,
08:33catastrophes,
08:34deaths,
08:35these syndromes
08:36that can be
08:37transient and acute
08:38become chronic.
08:40That is when
08:41the syndrome is chronic.
08:42I have patients
08:43in the clinic,
08:44in the consultancy,
08:45who tell me
08:46that many years ago
08:47they lived with this syndrome.
08:49When it is chronic
08:50is when it is medicated.
08:51When it is chronic
08:52is when it is no longer
08:53an acute event.
08:54When we speak
08:55in psychology
08:56and neuroscience
08:57of acute events
08:58they are events
08:59that appear,
09:00act,
09:01and disappear.
09:02When we speak
09:03of chronicity
09:04they are events
09:05that appear
09:06and sustain
09:07in the years
09:08and in time,
09:09becoming habits.
09:10I want to continue
09:11analyzing it.
09:12We are lucky
09:13that we have
09:14Claudio Greco
09:15with us today.
09:16I want him to continue
09:17instructing us
09:18in this matter
09:19because here
09:20the fastest way
09:21we can go
09:22and the easiest
09:23is to say
09:24well, here
09:25the culprit
09:26ended up with a life.
09:27We are trying
09:28to understand it
09:29and we are trying
09:30in the search
09:31for reparatory justice
09:32which will also have
09:33to do with
09:34the situation
09:35of the victims
09:36what could have
09:37caused this event
09:38and how to face it.
09:39Javi,
09:40I come back
09:41to you for a second
09:42in this matter
09:43that you have already
09:44recovered,
09:45let's see,
09:46I don't know,
09:47freedom,
09:48you went home,
09:49you were transferred,
09:50this already happened
09:51in effect.
09:52I want you to continue
09:53instructing us
09:54if your lawyer
09:55as he promised yesterday
09:56I think with Gaby Prospery
09:57presented documentation,
09:58clinical history,
09:59elements
10:00that confirm
10:01and corroborate
10:02this situation.
10:05This had already
10:06happened to him
10:07last year.
10:08What happens
10:09is that the difference
10:10from last year
10:11to this
10:12is that last year
10:13it happened to him
10:14in his house,
10:15inside his house.
10:16As a result of that
10:17studies begin to be done
10:18and those studies
10:19give without news,
10:20they give everything
10:21and everything is perfect.
10:22The difference
10:23is that in this opportunity
10:24that
10:25that
10:26going to black
10:27as we say
10:28sometimes
10:29it happens to him
10:30on the street
10:31and it happens to him
10:32driving
10:33and it happens
10:34to him
10:35for a state
10:36of depression,
10:37for a state
10:38of anxiety
10:39that says
10:40his lawyer
10:41who would be living
10:42according to what
10:43she refers to him
10:44for some time
10:45of which
10:46she would be
10:47medicated.
10:48She would be
10:49medicated.
10:50Therefore,
10:51unfortunately
10:52this happens to him
10:53that continues
10:54to the right
10:55that the license
10:56renews it
10:57in the year
10:582023
10:59and that is not
11:00any impediment
11:01for its renewal
11:02and that now
11:03every time
11:04that justice
11:05requires it
11:06she will present
11:07herself
11:08as
11:09assures
11:10or as
11:11he swore
11:12minutes ago
11:13to be
11:14free
11:15before the
11:16judge
11:17until
11:18the
11:19judge
11:20before the
11:21judge
11:22Peluso
11:23actually
11:24the judge
11:25of the
11:269th
11:27court
11:28in the
11:29national
11:30correctional
11:31I can
11:32ask you
11:33because
11:34then she
11:35was
11:36medicated
11:37for this
11:38syndrome
11:39and in
11:40reality
11:41it would not
11:42have to be
11:43prohibited
11:44to really
11:45be
11:46at the
11:47wheel
11:48of the
11:49car
11:50if
11:51you
11:52put
11:53what you
11:54want
11:55if
11:56in that
11:57sworn
11:58statement
11:59the patient
12:00in this
12:01case this
12:02woman did
12:03not put
12:04that she
12:05had
12:06neurological
12:07problems
12:08or that
12:09she
12:10was
12:11medicated
12:12or any
12:13impediment
12:14of that
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12:16of
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13:50Putting yourself at risk or others, that's the reality.
13:53But here we have to look at the criminal question.
13:56Why?
13:57We have to look at what are the elements in favor of the hypothesis of the lawyers
14:03to determine that this woman at that moment did not dominate her actions,
14:08she was not aware, and therefore if she was not aware of her actions,
14:12she will be unaccused.
14:13But she is exempted from her responsibility.
14:15She will be unaccused if she was not aware of what she was doing,
14:19Now, what elements does the lawyer in this case that represents her have in favor?
14:24Or what will he have to demonstrate?
14:26First, obviously, the whole medical question, clinical history, medication,
14:32the statement of the psychiatrist who attends her,
14:35who went yesterday to the police station where she was detained,
14:38but they obviously did not allow him to interview her.
14:42That on the one hand.
14:43On the other hand, in the place of the fact, there are no brakes.
14:48That is, when she saw herself in that situation, she did not hit the brake,
14:52which would be the reflex act of any driver who is in a crash situation.
14:57Press the brake. There is no braking.
15:00Even by instinct.
15:01Exactly.
15:02By instinct, not only not to damage a third party.
15:04Exactly.
15:05If not even to preserve one's own life.
15:06Exactly.
15:07And another.
15:08With what distraction ...
15:09Sorry guys.
15:10Yes, yes.
15:13Sorry, Gaby.
15:14She realizes what had happened, what had happened when the airbag explodes.
15:19When the airbag explodes, she falls.
15:22She realizes what had happened, in part, until she gets out of the car
15:26and witnesses tell her that there was a person under her car, etc., etc., etc.
15:32Of course.
15:33But that is her hypothesis.
15:35There is no other moment.
15:36And her lawyer.
15:37What the lawyer has to demonstrate is, I repeat, the medical question.
15:41The experts have already determined that she did not hit the brake.
15:43That already works in her favor.
15:46And the element of distraction.
15:48What is the main one, unfortunately, in our times,
15:52that causes so many traffic accidents?
15:54The cell phone.
15:56The lawyer says that he did not have the cell phone easily manipulable inside the cabin,
16:02that he had it inside his wallet.
16:04Exactly.
16:05And this, if he manages to demonstrate it,
16:07justifies that he takes force the hypothesis of this neurological problem
16:12that jumped him at that moment.
16:14The lawyers are going to go down that path
16:16to try to make his defendant unquestionable.
16:21I want to go back a little bit to Claudio to explain this context to us.
16:24We are not talking here about mathematical issues.
16:27Not everything is as linear as 1 plus 1 is 2.
16:30And if you have a syndrome of this type,
16:32automatically it is proven that the other happened.
16:36But there are recurring elements,
16:38and they are the ones that the justice is weighing,
16:40because it has to do with the lack of a braking that should have existed,
16:43even so as not to hurt her.
16:45There will be peripsis in the cell phone.
16:47There is also the result of the dosage of alcohol.
16:50They did an alcoholemic test.
16:52It gave her zero.
16:53And also from the laboratory.
16:54Yesterday they extracted blood from her.
16:56And precisely, if she is medicated,
16:58that laboratory test is going to be fundamental
17:01to determine if she is taking that medication or another.
17:04But I don't want to lose sight of the fact that I understand Jimena's reaction.
17:07Jimena's reaction is the reaction of many people in her house.
17:10Hey, stop!
17:11But then she is going to her house and she just killed a person
17:14who was walking around Buenos Aires.
17:16Then the two issues are put on the scale.
17:18Keep instructing us a little bit in this question, Claudio,
17:20of what you have been explaining to us,
17:22of what could have happened to this woman.
17:24We always speak in preterit, right?
17:26Obviously, first, as a professional responsibility of mine,
17:29I am not diagnosing,
17:31what are certain neuro-psychological frames
17:34with psychiatric commitment, many times.
17:37Something we call flashbacks.
17:39What are flashbacks?
17:40They are certain pathologies.
17:42For example, there are epilepsies that are activated
17:45when there are traumatic situations.
17:48There are epilepsies with falls, with fainting,
17:53with cyclonic tonic reflexes.
17:56And also, this type of syndromes
17:58are activated many times when the person receives some news,
18:01when stress situations are happening.
18:03I mean, we have to review what are the psychological tests,
18:09what is the depth with which the licenses are granted.
18:13Because I listened to you, Bobby,
18:15and I think we all agree on the table,
18:17that for every nonsense they have rebutted people
18:20who were ideal to handle.
18:22Why? Because he had a bad day,
18:24because the tests do not have the psychotechnical depth
18:27that they should have.
18:28This costs me.
18:29So, a person...
18:30What you mean is that someone can have a problem,
18:32a mental pathology,
18:33and do the psychological test and get well.
18:36Of course.
18:37I mean, when it is controlled by medication,
18:40many times certain syndromes and certain pathologies
18:44are activated by concurrent causes.
18:46They are concurrent causes, exogenous.
18:48News, separations, divorces, moments of stress,
18:52that activate that pathology.
18:53Let's not forget that depersonalization
18:56and derealization syndromes
18:58are dissociative mechanisms of defense
19:03against pain and anguish.
19:05Let me ask you something.
19:06If you have a mental problem,
19:08a pathology, as you just said,
19:10don't you have the obligation to say it
19:12when you are going to renew the registration
19:14or withdraw the registration?
19:15You have the responsibility to say it.
19:17And if you don't do it, in her case,
19:18if she didn't say it,
19:19wouldn't her situation be more complicated?
19:21I don't know about the criminal part,
19:23but obviously there is something
19:25that has to do with the responsibility
19:27and empathy with others.
19:28Yes, and here I insist again.
19:29We will have to see when it happened,
19:31what had to do with her last registration renewal,
19:34because some at a certain age
19:36are given for five years,
19:37and when it came,
19:38the whole issue of her diagnosis of this syndrome
19:41so strange, so particular,
19:43and that so fatally
19:45it seems that it had to do with this episode.
19:48Javi, anything else you need to add from there?
19:51No, no.
19:52Just to say that when one renews
19:54his driving license,
19:56as I think Gaby just said,
19:58there is a sworn statement,
20:00this is in the field of the Federal Capital,
20:02that we believe where she did the renewal
20:05of her driving license,
20:07we will have to see what she put,
20:09if that is after or before her current state,
20:13or this that she has been experiencing
20:16since last year.
20:17And if that last year, as she said,
20:19the defense lawyer,
20:21is that she has been presenting
20:23these inconveniences,
20:25to call it somehow,
20:27maybe the lawyer corrects me,
20:30since last year as 2024,
20:33or since last year as 2023.
20:35We will have to see a series of things
20:37that I imagine they can do
20:39also to the statement itself.