(Adnkronos) - Da Sanremo, dove tornerebbe volentieri come direttore artistico, al suo ultimo album, ‘La Caverna di Platone’, fino alla trap e all’amarezza per chi lo associa a ‘TeleMeloni’. Enrico Ruggeri a tutto tondo ospite della prima puntata del vodcast ‘Adnkronos Stars’, dove c’è spazio anche per una riflessione sulla sua Milano.
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00:00On January 17, La Caverna di Platone came out, a dense album, an important album that
00:06came out three years after the revolution and that combines a search, a refinement
00:12of sounds with a reflection, with many very important reflections.
00:16I have the personal pleasure of having with me this afternoon Enrico Ruggeri.
00:22ADN Kronos, what remains of him, with a bronchitis, salve a tutti, summa vociona.
00:33This is the result of the work of the engineers.
00:36It is the result of a lot of work, yes.
00:41Listen, then, let's talk about La Caverna di Platone because it is, as I said, a record
00:46full of reflections, full of nuances that you have been working on for a long time.
00:51Three years.
00:52Jokingly, I say that this is the best of the three albums that I have not done, because
00:59after the revolution I have the luck and the commitment to have my own studio, where
01:07musicians come to find me.
01:09So you start, you record two songs, you leave them there, ten days later you come back, you
01:14record another one, you throw away one, a cloth of Penelope that continues, which gave these
01:22fruits.
01:23Then, after three years, we said to ourselves, we need to set a deadline, also because
01:31Sanremo is coming in a while, then after Sanremo you can't go out with the records for a while,
01:38then summer comes and then you go in competition with Mojito, Reggaeton, etc., and so it had to
01:46come out at the beginning of the year.
01:49Listen, 13 tracks, 13 tracks, all different, let's say, between them, and what is the allegory
01:56of La Caverna di Platone?
01:57Explain it to those who still don't know.
01:59Basically, Platone imagined people born in a cave, locked up in a cave,
02:08and they saw, as the only approach to reality, external projections, external lights,
02:15and so they were convinced that that was reality, and they got used to the point that, once
02:21released, they felt uncomfortable and asked to be able to return to the cave.
02:26How to say, the parallels with today's world are wasted, and so, once this song came out,
02:37it was one of the last ones I wrote, and it was a dead end, I had to call the album like that.
02:43I read that initially you wanted to...
02:46It had to be called, like the last song, Arrivederci a Dio, thank goodness, because in reality
02:53Arrivederci a Dio is a song that talks about the fact that people never really separate
02:59from everything, nor if they leave each other, nor if one of the two leaves, there is always
03:06something that remains, but in fact, calling an album Arrivederci a Dio...
03:11It would have been plagiarized.
03:13It would have been, then I had to do the farewell tour, it lasts a long time, five years, these things.
03:19This is a subtlety, because there are several of your colleagues who announce the withdrawals...
03:24For a long time.
03:26Exactly.
03:27Or even that they announce them, and then it was not true.
03:30Listen, I listened to the album, as I told you before, I must say that it is beautiful.
03:39It is beautiful because it is very varied, it makes you enter different worlds.
03:45In fact, it was difficult, now I had to choose a few songs to talk about with you,
03:51choose some.
03:53But then, I would start with the poet, because the poet represents, now you tell us,
04:00a character that...
04:02Divisive.
04:03Divisive.
04:04The word divisive today is used with a negative meaning, which is worrying,
04:11because it means that there must be a single thought, and everything that does not include that thought
04:19is negative for society.
04:21Instead, it should not be like that, that is, in a world in which we hope,
04:25we confront ourselves, how to say, in a civil way, the divisive person is a person
04:31who shows another aspect of the problem or the theme.
04:35On the other hand, Socrates was divisive, there are divisive people who ended up in Rogo,
04:41Oscar Wilde, Ezra Pound, in short, the examples are wasted.
04:46Last but not least, Pasolini, who is perhaps the one to whom the song is more direct,
04:54with a sentence that is, free thought has a price to pay, which says it all,
05:00that is, often the people who have expressed their thoughts have paid a high price.
05:08This also has parallels with the last few years, let's say,
05:15who has moved away from this dominant thought, however, has been put in the corner,
05:20has been eliminated.
05:23Listen, among the songs there is also one that you wrote with your son.
05:27He wrote it, no, he wrote it.
05:29He wrote it, Pico Rama.
05:31Music and words, yes.
05:32For those who don't know, your son writes music.
05:34He also made three albums many years ago.
05:37Then he is absolutely strange, he is a saint,
05:42he is an hippie born at the wrong time,
05:46he is one who travels to find the shamans in Peru,
05:50that is, he does these things here.
05:52He is a person a little overwhelmed by reality, but very, very spiritual.
05:58He wrote this piece on self-acceptance, quite unusual,
06:03and which, in my opinion, was suitable for an album so dense in meanings,
06:09even sometimes with dramatic moments, let's say.
06:13There is this song that was serene,
06:15and therefore I put it at the end of the story before the final song.
06:20Was he happy?
06:22Yes, I guess so.
06:25It is difficult for children to tell their parents how happy they are,
06:29even if he is big.
06:31But yes, in short, it was a nice experience, I think, for both.
06:35In this album there is also the collaboration of Andrea,
06:38Andrea Mironi, your partner, who is a very good musician.
06:42Are there all the elements to make a family band?
06:47Well, my family is very large,
06:49because there are a lot of musicians who have played.
06:53Many of these are musicians I have been going to for 20 years,
06:58with whom you understand each other on the fly,
07:01with whom there is a lot of communion of intentions,
07:04with whom you spend pleasant and constructive moments.
07:09In short, music is an activity that is done between dear people,
07:14with a smile on the lips.
07:16And there is also a beautiful song about the sky of Milan,
07:20a piece that I invite everyone to listen to,
07:23where you talk about your city.
07:26What relationship do you have with this city
07:28and what do you think of the recent controversies
07:31about security and the lack of...
07:34Go on, tell me, tell me.
07:36Well, of course it's a relationship, it's my city.
07:38I was born there and so I'm fine there.
07:46Today I realize that my lifestyle excludes me from a lot of problems,
07:53I don't go out in the evening, for restaurants, for example.
07:57I don't go out late unless I'm at someone's house.
08:01I live as an old person.
08:04And so, in a way, I don't see it worse.
08:08I have an 18-year-old son who tells me about a city in Milan.
08:13I was in that place, the Albanians arrived,
08:16who called themselves the Moroccans,
08:18who took it with the Tunisians.
08:20Unfortunately, there is this bomb,
08:25this fire under the ashes,
08:28very violent, very hard,
08:31which has become an ideology,
08:34in one sense or another.
08:36And so, perhaps on the one hand,
08:39it is too much instrumentally condemned,
08:42but above all, on the other hand,
08:44it is minimized instrumentally.
08:46The problem is serious,
08:49I don't think it's more than a problem of crossbreeding.
08:53Milan has always been a very hospitable city,
08:57very hospitable.
08:59From a working point of view,
09:01if you want, it's a bit racist with the big fans,
09:04but if you want to do it in Milan, you'll be fine.
09:09It's a problem of, how to say,
09:13public order.
09:15Actually, the most angry people,
09:18I talk to people,
09:20I recently talked to Albanian bricklayers,
09:25people who work,
09:28who build, pull up the walls,
09:31they do a hard job.
09:33And they were the most angry,
09:35because they said,
09:37why here in Italy there is no way
09:39to get rid of these people,
09:41so that I, Albanian,
09:43can rent a house and not be looked at badly.
09:46A boy from Gambia,
09:48who comes here and works,
09:50and then goes,
09:52enters a restaurant,
09:54or wants to rent a house,
09:56or wants to buy a junk car,
09:58and is seen as a distrustful person
10:00for that reason.
10:02So, in reality,
10:04public order
10:06goes to the advantage of these communities.
10:09Listen,
10:11I have to open with you
10:13a chapter on Sanremo,
10:15which you have already talked about.
10:17So, I ask you,
10:19because I have to ask you,
10:21what do you think of this cast
10:23that Carlo Conti put together?
10:25What kind of Sanremo is it?
10:27Obviously, I didn't listen to the songs.
10:31I went a little less on Google this year,
10:35because last year,
10:37even doing this job,
10:39for half of the participants
10:41I had to go to Google
10:43to see who it was.
10:45This year less, so already a news.
10:47Sanremo has a series of palettes,
10:49that is, whoever organizes the festival
10:51is obliged to make the highest listening possible,
10:53because RAI lives
10:55mainly from the Cespit
10:57and from the festival.
10:59To listen,
11:01you can do everything,
11:03you can finish at 3 am
11:05as long as the share is higher.
11:09You have to arrange
11:11a heterogeneous show
11:13in a way that many people like
11:15and therefore
11:17it is not that you run away.
11:19This year, if nothing else,
11:21I'm starting to see singers again
11:23and it's not bad.
11:25And then there are young,
11:27less young,
11:29old heroes,
11:31so, as always,
11:33the songs will be to decide
11:35and in reality it will be time,
11:37because there are festivals
11:39made 40 years ago,
11:4150 years ago,
11:43that have produced 10 songs
11:45that we still remember.
11:47Those are the festivals of the triumphs.
11:49Yes, in recent years ...
11:51I don't know,
11:53but in 40 years
11:55we have to see how many of these songs
11:57we will remember.
11:59Listen, the dissing
12:01between Tony F and Fedez
12:03do you like it?
12:05No,
12:07they seem to me very clever
12:09maneuvers, very well done.
12:11Of marketing.
12:13You have said,
12:15let's say,
12:17several interesting things
12:19about rap and trap.
12:21I also ask you in this seat
12:23what you think about it
12:25and if you listen to it every now and then.
12:27Well, I have a son who listens to it
12:29and this will cause me
12:31even more trouble
12:33to have told you
12:35because they will tell me
12:37Rosicky, why your son?
12:39So, let's make some premises.
12:41One, if they weren't there,
12:43I wouldn't sell
12:45one more album and I wouldn't do
12:47one more listening.
12:49That is, if one listens to Bello Figo,
12:51if Bello Figo had never been born,
12:53however, he has such a predisposition
12:55that he would not listen to me.
12:58Second premise,
13:00I do not scandalize myself for anything
13:02because I was born with punk,
13:04I have seen in London
13:0618 years old
13:08wild groups,
13:10full of turpiloquy,
13:12that's not the point.
13:14The point is
13:16that if you make music,
13:18a little bit of poetry
13:20you have to do it.
13:22It is not even the topic
13:24that scandalizes me.
13:26For example,
13:28an indebted boy who kills a Usuraia
13:30seems the text of a trap song
13:32is crime and punishment.
13:34A group of
13:36underage boys
13:38who go around delinquents
13:40is Oliver Twist
13:42by Dickens.
13:44So, actually,
13:46the theme is, you can't write a song
13:48if you know 120 words.
13:52After that,
13:54you have to search
13:56in the abysses
13:58of the mind,
14:00of the body.
14:02Bukowski did the same,
14:04Oscar Wilde,
14:06a few years earlier.
14:08It is often the case
14:10to search
14:12in the abysses
14:14of the human soul,
14:16but you have to do art.
14:18And above all,
14:20you have to know these names
14:22It seems to me that often
14:24the problem is that
14:26if you don't know who John Fante is
14:28and you talk to me about delinquency
14:30in big cities,
14:32you leave me perplexed.
14:34Listen, Sanremo,
14:36you would come back
14:38and I also ask you another thing,
14:40would you be passionate
14:42about being the artistic director
14:44of Sanremo?
14:46I would be much more passionate
14:48than coming back.
14:50As far as coming back is concerned,
14:52I don't know.
14:54But in my profession,
14:56bad people are made.
14:58Maybe in three years
15:00I'll go there
15:02and you'll say,
15:04but you told me
15:06you didn't go there anymore.
15:08So you can never say,
15:10this is true.
15:12I don't know,
15:14maybe I would be a little uncomfortable.
15:16Maybe a song like Poeta
15:18for example.
15:20Cristicchi is a very poetic song,
15:22I don't refuse to believe it
15:24because he is a great artist
15:26and so there has always been
15:28space for these things.
15:30A big question,
15:32your Sanremo,
15:34how would it be?
15:36How would you imagine a Sanremo
15:38directed by Enrico Ruggeri?
15:40Well, everyone has been saying
15:42for 50 years,
15:44when they do the presentation,
15:46and in my opinion almost never
15:48it was true.
15:50So I would also say,
15:52I anticipate the songs,
15:54but I would really do it.
15:56I think one makes a lot of enemies
15:58if he organizes the festival,
16:00among colleagues.
16:02So it's a very delicate role.
16:04But my reasoning
16:06would be what I was talking about earlier.
16:08Listen to a song and say,
16:10but in 2050
16:12this song could still
16:14make sense,
16:16or it's just the meeting
16:18of a summer.
16:20That would be my guide.
16:22You talked about enemies now,
16:24do you have enemies?
16:26In your opinion,
16:28have you made enemies for your ideas?
16:30Well, enemies,
16:32stronger people than me,
16:34that
16:36every time there was
16:38to make a decision
16:40they called another in my place.
16:43And then the marginalization
16:45is not done like once
16:47of the Bulgarian Edith.
16:49Indeed, when one is made
16:51clearly,
16:53you have done him a huge favor,
16:55you have created a martyr,
16:57there are also recent cases.
16:59The problem is when
17:01they just don't call you.
17:03And no one feels your absence,
17:05because the universe of the show
17:07and communication
17:09is so varied
17:11that no one notices.
17:13I am very
17:15bitter now
17:17when I came back to television
17:19and started Telemeloni, etc.
17:21So I asked
17:23the first journalist who made me
17:25this objection.
17:27I told him, excuse me,
17:29which team do you support?
17:31Roma.
17:33Since I think I do it well on television,
17:35you, journalist,
17:37did the article when
17:39everyone played
17:41or when everyone left.
17:43So why no one wrote
17:45where I was in these
17:473-4 years?
17:49The news was that.
17:51This should be the normality.
17:53It is very clear.
17:55Let's talk about
17:57your broadcast,
17:59you told me that you recorded
18:01the last two episodes,
18:03so now we will see
18:05the eyes of the musician.
18:07Is television
18:09congenial to you?
18:11Yes, I like to tell stories
18:13about
18:15my field
18:17and music, so I am even more
18:19comfortable.
18:21There are palettes
18:23also there, music totally
18:25live, even those who come
18:27and play with my band,
18:29which is a guarantee.
18:33Many young people,
18:35but not those of the mainstream.
18:39Today there are
18:4120-25 singers
18:43who belong to the same sphere of influence,
18:45who invite each other,
18:47they do the demonstrations,
18:49for goodness sake,
18:51it is called abuse of predominant position,
18:53but in reality, if one does it,
18:55he is good.
18:57So these 20-25,
18:59he does the forum, he invites the other,
19:01then he does the arena,
19:03they invite each other.
19:05There are a lot of
19:07young people, very good,
19:09who do interesting things
19:11and are out of this circle.
19:15Erika Moo, for example,
19:17a thousand,
19:19Fulminaci came,
19:21or maybe the guys who do a Sanremo,
19:23after which they are not mainstream enough
19:25to enter the circle above,
19:27and they return to become independent.
19:29Mirko Il Cane,
19:31for example, who did a beautiful song
19:33three or four festivals ago.
19:35Well, I,
19:37these guys, I want to defend them.
19:41Listen,
19:43it is said that
19:45on the right there are no intellectuals,
19:47that
19:49the left has always been
19:51this...
19:53Can we say
19:55it's not true?
19:57Beyond the fact that today
19:59there are positions,
20:01I mean,
20:03no one has explained to me yet
20:05why the fact that I,
20:07as soon as the COVID bubble came out,
20:09I said, I don't believe
20:11a word of this narrative.
20:13Of course I can be wrong,
20:15it is very confusing in my opinion,
20:17but the fact that
20:19this has been identified as
20:21a right-wing act,
20:23I don't understand it, and no one
20:26can explain it to me.
20:28So, this premise was made,
20:30the second premise was made,
20:32that once the roles were more defined,
20:34the left defended the weak
20:36and the right
20:38defended the privileged,
20:40until the 60s, until the white
20:42democristian whale.
20:44And today,
20:46who is the weak?
20:48That is, the one who occupies
20:50a house, is he
20:52the last or the last is the old woman
20:54with whom the house was taken away?
20:56What goes to threaten,
20:58now I don't want to quote Pasolini
21:00in one of the things for which
21:02it is mentioned more often,
21:04what goes to threaten a policeman,
21:06is he the weak or the policeman
21:08who for a thousand euros a month
21:10takes the spit in the face?
21:12So, the scenario has completely changed,
21:14it is no longer said that the left
21:16defends the weak
21:18and it is no longer said that the right
21:20defends the privileged.
21:22The left takes the water to its mill,
21:24instrumentalizes and imposes itself,
21:26rides, etc., etc.
21:28But to answer your question,
21:30there was a vicious circle
21:32in the 60s and 70s,
21:34that is,
21:36to get there,
21:38I speak of the songwriters
21:40of the generation that preceded me,
21:42many have just told me,
21:44I don't tell you the names,
21:46but I had to say that you were left.
21:48So,
21:50the vicious circle is
21:52were those
21:54who were not left
21:56forced to say that they were left
21:58or was the left
22:00more attentive? Both things.
22:02The right
22:04has had decades
22:06in which it has not dealt with the problem,
22:08not realizing that it was losing
22:10land, etc.
22:12Today,
22:14the fact that everything
22:16is so confused,
22:18has confused the waters there too.
22:20It doesn't seem to me that
22:22Marcello Veneziani, to say,
22:24is an unforeseen person,
22:26to quote one.
22:28Listen, we still have very little time
22:30unfortunately,
22:32I want to ask you a question about the authors of Sanremo,
22:34going back to Bombach for a moment,
22:36because before I forgot,
22:38there is this controversy, let's say,
22:40about the fact that 11 authors
22:42have written practically
22:4470% of the songs.
22:46Is there a bit of this sort
22:48of oligopoly?
22:50I don't know, I'm out of that circle.
22:52The legend tells of chains of editing,
22:54what only the stanzas write,
22:56but they are nonsense,
22:58I don't know.
23:00There are songs
23:02where the number of authors is longer than the text.
23:08I struggle to think
23:12that is, the great songs have always been written in one
23:14or in two.
23:16So, frankly, I struggle to think
23:18how to write a song
23:20in seven. Once it only happened
23:22with the bands.
23:24There were maybe the Deep Purple,
23:26they signed the songs in five,
23:28because they sat there and played
23:30until the song was born,
23:32and then everyone was
23:34co-participants of the artistic work.
23:36But today the songs are made
23:38on a computer.
23:40I would like to be a fly
23:42and know how to write
23:44a song in seven.
23:46Listen, to finish, I ask you
23:48how do you
23:50save yourself
23:52from this
23:54illusory matrix, in your opinion?
23:56Can love serve?
23:58What is it for?
24:00Love is a lift to everything,
24:02or a cross for everything,
24:04it depends on what phase of life
24:06you meet it in,
24:08what happens to you personally.
24:12You have to be careful.
24:14We all sometimes
24:16say one thing
24:18and then in reality we have read it on the internet
24:20and we are not even us,
24:22we have not even verified it,
24:24we all fall.
24:26All of us, maybe
24:28every now and then on social media,
24:30we see someone talking,
24:32a topic does not immediately enter
24:34and we move on to the next one.
24:36We have a series of defects
24:38that worsen the quality
24:40of our mind.
24:42Me first.
24:44Thank you Enrico, thank you
24:46for this wonderful chat.
24:48Thank you also from me.