Bennett Breaking The Stigma: Getting Real on Mental Health with Team 988
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00:00It is Bennett from The New 96.5, and I'm so happy to be joined with my friends at the Philadelphia
00:05Department of Behavioral Health and Intellectual Disability Services. You've heard me talk about
00:09this on the air each and every morning, the importance of mental health. Of course, you've
00:13heard my backstory and how I've gone to therapy throughout my entire life and how speaking about
00:20your mental health and being open about it has really helped me throughout my entire life.
00:24I'm just so happy to have you guys on here. This is a little 9-8 podcast. We have Marjola here,
00:31the interim manager of Philadelphia Crisis Line. Good to see you this morning.
00:34Good morning. So nice to be here. Thank you.
00:37Absolutely. We have Patrick, the mental health emergency supervisor with the
00:41Philadelphia Crisis Line. Good morning, Patrick.
00:43Good morning. Good morning.
00:45And we have Raquel, the systems integration specialist. Good morning.
00:48Good morning.
00:49How are we doing?
00:51I am well. How are you?
00:52I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. Before we get into the importance of mental health and
00:58speaking about it and the 9-8-8 program in general, just a little backstory about yourself and your
01:05role and how you got here. Marjola, you want to kick us off?
01:10Yeah, of course. Good morning. I am Marjola Como. I'm the interim manager for the local suicide
01:17line for Philadelphia. I've been with the Department of Behavioral Health and Intellectual
01:23Disabilities for about 11 years, but I've been in the mental health field for about 20 years now.
01:30I am a licensed professional counselor, and I'm also a registered nurse,
01:35and I love being here to talk about 9-8-8. Thank you for having me.
01:39Of course. That's amazing. Patrick?
01:42Sure. My name is Patrick Dunn. I am one of the supervisors for the Philadelphia crisis line.
01:51I've been with DBHIDS for the past about almost 20 years. First, I was at a different capacity
01:59for 16 years, and then I joined PCL for the past two, but there's actually about 20 years
02:05in there somewhere. Math is hard. I used to work as a teacher in the Philadelphia school district,
02:14and I have a background in education. I've been in mental health since the age of 19,
02:24so a very long time. I, too, think it's very important to talk about mental health.
02:29Yeah. I feel like over the years, we've been able to have that open dialogue a little bit more and
02:34more. It's definitely growing since when I was a kid, when no one really talked about
02:39mental health. Raquel, tell me about your story and how you got here.
02:43Sure. I am Raquel. I'm a person in long-term recovery. I have close to eight and a half years
02:50in recovery. I started with the department about five and a half years ago.
02:56I actually, prior to working at the Department of Behavioral Health, I worked as a recovery
03:01specialist for a recovery community center in Philadelphia. That was how I started in the field,
03:07and then I started at the Department of Behavioral Health as a certified peer specialist.
03:13So currently, I work in a macro-level role in the commissioner's office.
03:20Part of my role is I am a subject matter expert. Also, when I was using substances,
03:30I had engaged into treatment through the Philadelphia Medicaid system. So I had contact
03:37with our system that we currently work in, and that's why it was so important for me
03:43when I came into recovery to work for that system and specifically to work with folks that are at
03:50poverty level and with Medicaid because that's who I am. That's who I was.
03:57That will always be part of me. I'm a Philadelphia native, as you can tell by my accent.
04:02Hopefully, you can understand me, and I speak really fast. That's the best way. Might be the
04:08double espresso, too. But yeah, I'm a Philly native, so it's really important for me.
04:15What we do as a department is so important to me because I love that we are talking more about
04:20mental health. However, the stigma is still very alive and well. So for me, I feel like my
04:25personal crusade in life is to let people know that it's okay to own who you are. My mom and I
04:33always say we had to go there to get here. I always say I have no regrets in life, and I really
04:39don't. I only have lessons learned because those things made me who I am today. I just think it's
04:46really important for people to know that it's okay to have struggles and challenges. You don't have
04:50to be embarrassed because there really is so much help out there. My experience has been like you
04:56never know when you're in a room of people and you open up about this who else is experiencing it and
05:01how it can help others. You're not kidding. It's so real how many of us are holding on to something
05:09and kind of suffering in silence, right? We're all kind of holding on to something heavy.
05:13And when you open up about it and be transparent, it's amazing how many people are dealing with
05:20maybe similar things. Just myself alone this past year, my wife and I had dealt with a lot of
05:29struggles in our family. We went through two miscarriages after 20 weeks. And you think like
05:37no one else has been through this, right? And when you start opening up that dialogue and talking
05:42about it, so many families have been dealing with this, right? It's a hard topic to really get into,
05:48but like what you said, you talk about it, you open up. Not only is it healing for yourself,
05:54but you realize that a lot of other people, whether it be friends, family, colleagues,
05:59have dealt with similar situations. Have you felt that way as well?
06:04Life is hard. Life can be challenging. We experience losses, we experience grief. So yes,
06:12everybody needs help from time to time. And that's why we have 988. Anyone can call 988
06:20for any mental health crisis. If you're dealing with anxiety, if you're dealing with depressive
06:27symptoms, if you're dealing with grief, with loss, for any other crisis, you're going to be connected
06:36with someone who's there for you and is going to help you. So yes, I have felt the same in my personal
06:44life as well. And you would get someone like Patrick on the line, right? And so walk me through
06:51if I were to call 988, walk me through kind of like how that would be. So we have multiple
06:58language support. So it's not just for English speakers. 988 has access to a language line.
07:05So we can connect you to a language that you're comfortable sharing your thoughts and feelings
07:10with the translator. We'll translate to us in real time. So any language is available to us
07:17through our language line support. So not just English, not just Spanish, the whole gambit.
07:23All are welcome.
07:24All are welcome. You can either call or text 988. And if you call, you're given a choice of
07:32choosing a veterans line or an LGBTQ line. And that is to make sure that you get the support
07:42that you're really looking for. But of course, we'll talk with everyone, right? So
07:50you would be greeted, hello, this is Patrick. How can I help you? And then,
08:00you might start to share your story. And immediately, I would look for a way to
08:07connect with your story. And I'm generally interested in your story. So any of our
08:13counselors are really gonna listen. And what's important is that there is that connection.
08:21And folks will begin to, you can actually tell right away, because how they started the
08:26conversation is not how they end it. And it's usually in a much more positive people feel,
08:33even though their problem isn't necessarily gone. But they have got that big relief,
08:39that release of like, I'm not carrying this by myself anymore. Someone else has heard me.
08:45Someone hears me.
08:47And gets it.
08:48And gets it. And gets it. And that's the thing too, is that many of us have had
08:53loss. And we can use that connection, but we're also trained counselors too. So we have that
08:59therapeutic line, that professional line. But we also are aware that we know what it's like to
09:06carry a secret. We know what it's like to carry pain. And we know what it's like to suffer through
09:12depression. But we also know what it's like to recover. And that's like the biggest part too,
09:17is that when you're holding on to that stuff, you don't ever think it's gonna be different.
09:21And then it is. And then you can move those, take those steps forward. And then you can actually
09:27see that recovery come through. And that's beautiful.
09:30Isn't that a beautiful thing?
09:31It's a beautiful thing.
09:32Raquel, you can speak to that, right? I mean, being on the other side of it,
09:35because when you're in it, it is so tough to see that light, right?
09:40How you spoke about that, Patrick, just having that release, getting it off your chest. I've
09:45been there before where like, just having someone on the other line listening is just so therapeutic
09:50in itself, you know? And then, like you said, not the problems are gone, but you've been heard.
09:58And just that alone kind of like, takes the burden and weight off your shoulders.
10:03And then when you get to the other side, how beautiful is that? Finally seeing the light.
10:08It's amazing. And I can completely relate to that because when you're in the middle of it,
10:13like I remember just feeling like, all right, my only way out is death. Everything just seems so
10:20hard. Like, how am I going to even clean up my past and move forward and, you know, all these
10:26things. And, you know, for a very long time, I thought that if I had all these external things,
10:32that I would be okay. And then I would get the external things quickly, but I was never okay.
10:38Right. So like, I really feel like what I suffer from is that I want more of everything, but then
10:44it doesn't fill me. So, you know, in entering into recovery, other people with recovery and
10:51even like, you know, counselors taught me that what I actually have is this internal condition
10:57and like external things don't heal my internal condition. And when, you know, you do some of this
11:04work on yourself and, you know, with the help of others, I always, you know, still need people to
11:09hold my hand and remain in the middle of recovery. But it is amazing when the light comes on and
11:17you're like, wow. Like I always say, I feel like I live two different lives and I'm grateful for
11:22both of those lives because it is just so powerful of being on this side and thinking and seeing like
11:31the way I process things, like checking my motives and most of all being in service, helping others.
11:37Like that's the highlight. And then watching that light come on for another person is like even more,
11:43even more powerful. It's gonna be so rewarding. Yes, it is. Yep. That's why talking to someone,
11:51when you're feeling like that, it can save your life. So it's very important to understand that
11:57nobody is alone, that you have options and making that decision to call 988 and to connect with
12:04someone on the phone, it might be the most important decision of your life. I think that
12:08might be the hardest step for someone, right? Just picking up the phone, calling or texting. But once
12:13you get over that hurdle, right? Because I've been there before where it's like, it's hard to open up
12:17and you've been carrying it for so long. How could I possibly talk about it now, right? But once you do,
12:23it's like ripping that band-aid off and, you know, you start that process of healing, which you all
12:28spoke about. You know, you mentioned, you know, the only way out was death. And I'm sure so many people
12:33have felt that way, myself included, where you feel so stuck, so in it. How could I possibly get
12:39out? And I kind of want to speak more about this, especially with the holiday season. I know that
12:42can really be a terrible time for a lot of people. We think of the holidays as bright and joyous,
12:49but for many of us, that's not the case. Just talk to me about this time of year and how important
12:559-8-8 is. Well, there can be so many triggers for people when the holidays come. Families
13:04sometimes can be supportive. Families sometimes can be triggering. So it's important to understand
13:11that when you call 9-8-8, you're going to get someone who's trained, someone who's not going
13:15to judge you, someone who's going to connect with you and be there with you and understand the
13:21situation and collaborate with you to come up with a plan so everything doesn't feel so overwhelming.
13:33Patrick, you can speak to this. Yeah, I was going to say that, like, for instance,
13:37a transgender individual may be isolated from their family. They know everyone's going to the
13:42family for a celebration and they're not invited. And that person may feel really, really horrible.
13:50They may feel suicidal. And they can call 9-8-8 and they can talk with staff who are trained
13:57to talk about that and to listen and to provide support. Folks who may not have presence to
14:06give their kids or folks that have losses. If there was a death in the family,
14:18you know, and it's like in the first beginnings of that, you know, of the holiday season is the
14:23first season without them, brings up a lot of feelings. With the anniversary. Yeah, yeah.
14:29Anniversaries are very triggering. So we get calls from folks around this time because of those
14:37triggers, you know, and like Marjola said, it's like once you just get that off your chest,
14:44you know, you can get that support, you know, and that decision that you were thinking about
14:48before you made the call, you're making a different decision at the end of the call.
14:52Yeah. It's a huge first step. Now tell me, what's the difference between calling 9-1-1? Because,
14:58you know, if you're in a panic, if you're having these thoughts and your mind is racing,
15:02the difference between calling 9-1-1 and 9-8-8, you know?
15:05So 9-1-1 is for physical emergencies. If your life is in immediate danger, if there's a crime
15:14being committed, 9-8-8 is for mental health emergencies. So if you're experiencing a panic
15:21attack, if you're experiencing depressive symptoms, suicidal ideations, then you call 9-8-8.
15:29The biggest difference is when you call 9-1-1, you are going to get a physical response.
15:36Usually, police officers responding to the situation and helping you. 9-8-8 doesn't
15:42necessarily do that. You're going to get a 9-8-8 counselor who is going to ask you questions,
15:49make sure that there's no immediate threats to your safety, and talk to you. We do have
15:56the option to dispatch mental health mobile teams who can help you face-to-face, but that's not
16:03necessarily the first step. So that's the biggest difference between 9-1-1 and 9-8-8.
16:09Sure. And why did it go from the 10 digits to 9-8-8? I'm assuming, I mean, it's so
16:15much easier, right? I mean, is that the main purpose?
16:19Yeah. So the National Suicide Line has been helping people since 2005. And back in July of
16:282022, they decided to switch to 9-8-8. One of the main reasons is when you are in mental health
16:36crisis, it's very hard to remember a 10-digit number. So 9-8-8 is easier to remember. And
16:44also for elderly people who are not able to remember a 10-digit number, 9-8-8, it's easy,
16:50it's quick, and you're going to be connected immediately with a 9-8-8 counselor.
16:55It's also quick for kids too, because it's not just adults who are calling us. We have children
17:01who are in crisis. We have teenagers in crisis. 9-8-8, it's published everywhere. It's easy,
17:06easy to remember. They can text, because we know kids of a certain generation,
17:12heaven forbid, you actually have a phone conversation. But I'll text you,
17:16and that's an important feature. I was going to bring that up. I mean, how great is the text
17:21feature for this? Because like you said, this day and age, it's hard to pick up the phone and talk
17:26to someone you do know, let alone maybe a stranger on the other end, especially about something as
17:31heavy as this. Texting has got to be a really great component for this. Yeah. Yeah. This has
17:39been so great to have this open dialogue. Anyone have anything else that they want to share and
17:46kind of get out? Raquel, anything that you want to say? Yeah. I just want to mention that I
17:53definitely agree with you that holidays can be rough, and especially for people in recovery,
17:59and anyone really, because unfortunately, sometimes there's a lot of death around the
18:04holidays. And sometimes there is just a lot of feelings, especially if you're in recovery,
18:09like there's a lot of alcohol at family parties or just parties in general, celebrations.
18:16And I think that what's so important is just to keep in mind that these are only events. So
18:22something that I was taught and that has helped me throughout the years was, you play the tape
18:27through, right? And you think about like, well, all right, I get it, this event, and this looks
18:33really good right now, right? But what will happen if I do this like next week, right? What will
18:39happen if I do this? How am I going to feel tomorrow when I wake up? How many people am I
18:43going to hurt? How bad am I going to hurt myself, right? And that has been a tool that has helped me
18:47tremendously. And of course, talking about it, you know, just to echo what Patrick mentioned,
18:54getting it off of your chest is so important. I mean, I know after I have something bothering
19:00me and a lot of times it's my head making all these different scenarios up and I just get it
19:05off and I have someone that I trust or someone that I don't even know. So I'm like, I don't
19:10really care what, who they tell because they don't know me either, but I need some feedback.
19:16It's so important and you get it off of your chest and I literally feel like it just goes away,
19:21you know, or, and especially when I get constructive feedback, then I feel like
19:26when it comes up again, I know a little bit better how to handle that. And I just want
19:32to reiterate like the importance of asking for help. It is so important. It is so, so hard.
19:39You know, it's harder for different populations, but I know like for me, what was the hardest part
19:45of asking for help was that I was so angry with myself and I thought for a very long time that
19:51all of these other people had wronged me and that I was so angry with them. But then when I asked
19:57for help and in doing some work, I realized that the biggest person I had to forgive was me.
20:03And once I forgave me, the, the, the way my recovery blossomed was, it was phenomenal,
20:11you know, and the way I forgave me and just allowed myself to be me and to tell myself,
20:17like, everything's okay. You know, you made some mistakes, but you're not a bad person.
20:22We can move forward from this. And literally just like that positive self-talk, you know,
20:27I hadn't realized that, um, I had hurt myself the most and that I kept hurting myself because my
20:33self-esteem was so low and I just couldn't let myself off the hook essentially. And once I did,
20:39it was like, wow, like it was just powerful. And like the blessings upon blessings,
20:44you know, started pouring in. So I think that's so important to tell people.
20:48Yeah. Cause one thing doesn't define anyone, right? Like our past does not define us. Um,
20:54it was just so important to talk about because my, my first instinct when I'm going through
20:58something is to self isolate. I am the LeBron James of isolating myself from friends, family,
21:04when something is going wrong in my life, I kind of just like disappear. And I kind of now after
21:13going through therapy my whole life and, you know, coming up with different coping mechanisms,
21:17like I'll realize what I'm doing, you know, I'm like, okay, this is not healthy. This is.
21:21And so I'll start reaching out and saying yes to plans. Right. I'll start talking about what
21:26I'm feeling. Um, and I start to feel myself coming out of that. Right. But my first instinct is to
21:31like, right. And I feel like a lot of men do that. A lot of men will hold on to whatever is
21:38that they're feeling. I want, I want to mention that actually, I was like as a man, I I'm expected
21:43to power through it. Right. I'm expected to, you know, not talk about stuff, not reveal stuff,
21:48keep it moving, keep it moving, keep it moving. I don't have time, you know, or if I start,
21:52if I start getting in there, I'll really get in there. Right. You know, and it'll be overwhelming.
21:57You know, once I opened the floodgate, then there's nothing that's nothing's going to hold
22:01it back. Yeah. I always felt like in the past, uh, that I would be burdening a family member
22:06or a friend with my own problems. Cause I know that they have their problems. So why would they
22:10ever, but they do care because I know I, I care about hearing, you know, a friend or family member
22:15what they're going through. So I have to remind myself of that as well. Uh, it's okay to share.
22:20It's okay to open up because what we've said before the person on the other side might be
22:25dealing with something similar, you know, and now all of a sudden you are, uh, closer to one
22:31another because of this. Right. I've, I've found that in my past as well. Like silly me, I've been
22:36holding onto this, but now that I've opened up, now we have something in common. We have, you know,
22:42similar struggles and, and it's just kind of a beautiful thing when you finally
22:47rip that bandaid off and you really do start healing because you're open about it.
22:51It really is. And that's the stigma of mental health that your family might see you as weak
22:57or your friends will see you as, as weak. Um, and most people don't seek help because of that.
23:03And that's why it's important to know that when you are feeling like that, you have options.
23:09And to everyone who's, uh, listening to us right now, I want them to know that 9, 8, 8, uh,
23:16saves lives. So when you are in that dark space and you are isolating and you feel that there is
23:25no other options for you, please call 9, 8, 8. It's at no cost for you and it does save lives.
23:32Absolutely. That's a beautiful message this morning. And I can't thank you enough for
23:37joining me, uh, here and, uh, talking about this and, uh, the fact that it's okay to not be okay.
23:43It's, it's totally in like, it takes a strong person, right? Not a weak person to open up and
23:48talk. I think that's the biggest misconception. And then let me, so real quick, I want to thank
23:53you for your transparency, because I think that that's huge. Just someone being in your role that
23:58speaks to so many people on a, on a daily basis. Um, it's very important to hear that from you.
24:04So thank you for carrying the message. And also, um, I want to mention that asking for help is
24:11actually a way of strength, not weakness. And again, it's like, I think for throughout years,
24:16and especially the Philly culture, you know, like I grew up, I was raised by a bunch of strong women
24:21that powered through things like from, you know, like North Philly, let's power through,
24:26this is what we do, hardcore work ethic. So it was, you know, also really hard to like,
24:31really talk about things. Right. And I think that we see that a lot in generations in Philly culture.
24:36I was going to say that like my parents' generation. Yeah. It's like that. Like we don't,
24:39we don't talk about the problems. We kind of just keep it to ourselves and, you know, that it's
24:44only, that only works for so long, you know? Right. It works until it doesn't. It works until
24:49it doesn't. And I think the, the main message here today is that it's, it's totally healthy
24:54and okay to, to reach out, pick up the phone, call or text 988. Um, Marjola, Patrick, Raquel,
25:03thank you so much for joining me here on this really important podcast. Uh, thank you so much.
25:08Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Call or text 988. It's okay to not be okay.