Daniel Wales and Joe Buck discuss Newcastle United’s progress to the final of the Carabao Cup and the Fifth Round of the FA Cup, as well as whether Newcastle could win both of them. They then preview the clash with Manchester City.
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00:00Hello and welcome back to the Magpies Nest Newcastle United podcast, once again joined
00:16by my colleague from the Shields Gazette, Joe Book. Joe, how are you?
00:19I'm good, thanks Dan. It's been just over a week since we spoke, but lots have happened,
00:24which is great to hear, and lots of good stuff happened in the world of Newcastle United.
00:28Yes, it's been a positive week, fair to say, since the loss against Fulham at home. Newcastle
00:33have progressed in two cup competitions and crucially got to Wembley in the League Cup
00:38into the final against Liverpool. We'll start with that. Of course, going into the game
00:43because of the Fulham result, Newcastle, I think, was a bit of a bag of nerves heading
00:47into that game at St James' Park, because Arsenal had beaten Manchester City 5-1 at
00:51the same weekend as well, and so you thought, well yes, they can definitely score goals
00:54given the fact that they had an overturn and a two goal deficit, but I think they honestly
00:59were a bit rattled by the atmosphere. St James' Park was at its rampant, raucous best. Yes,
01:04they hit the post through Martin Udegaard. Isak, of course, had scored a goal which was
01:09ruled offside just before that, but in that 30 seconds from Udegaard hitting the post
01:13and then Jacob Murphy getting the first goal, which, by the way, was quite a hard finish
01:17I thought. It never really looked like anything else was going to happen bar Newcastle qualifying
01:22for the final.
01:23Yes, absolutely. I'd say it was a crazy opening of the game, wasn't it, with that Isak ruled
01:29out goal and then Udegaard, but yes, we spoke about how important the first goal had been,
01:34how important the first 15-20 minutes had been. As you say, that was exactly what panned
01:37out. Newcastle got that early goal. Yes, they got a bit of luck with Udegaard missing. He
01:41probably doesn't miss that chance if he takes it again, but he did miss it and once Jacob
01:48Murphy scored, you're right, they never looked back. I think Arsenal were limited to very
01:52little in front of goal. I can't remember De Braaf making a save until right at the
01:56end when they had a free header from a corner and by then it was 4-0, so it was almost irrelevant.
02:00Yes, a proper professional performance. I'm glad because they went to the Emirates and
02:06did a really good job in the first leg, so it was good to see them follow it up and not
02:09just follow it up and just eke through. They didn't just lose 1-0 in that game or 2-1 or
02:14something. They actually beat Arsenal and beat them comfortably over both legs. Yes,
02:17it was a really good performance and one that I would hope they were able to continue in
02:22the Premier League, although that sort of form has dipped recently. They're getting
02:24results in the Cups, maybe not in the League, but yes, a proper performance from them and
02:28one that will give them confidence that they can do that at Wembley.
02:31Indeed, yes, and as you say there, Arsenal never really had a sniff once Newcastle went
02:35ahead, to be honest. I think they had that Trossard shot which was saved by De Braaf
02:39from a Lewis Hall mistaken pass, but apart from that, as you say, not really anything
02:44at all. Newcastle were professional, they were mature on the night, just sort of how
02:47you want them to be because I feel like the last time they got to the League Cup final,
02:51everything was new, everything sort of felt like a big spectacle. This season, it's felt
02:54a lot more professional and mature getting there. That wasn't the only competition that
02:58they progressed in that week, of course, going off to St Andrews in the FA Cup, which was
03:02by no means an easy task. You guys will have to make changes because, of course, players
03:06needed a rest after the effort they put in against Arsenal, against the Birmingham city
03:11side who in League 1 had not lost at home at least for many, many weeks, sat top of
03:16League 1. And yes, Birmingham got the perfect start, but Newcastle ultimately, even though
03:22they didn't have perhaps all of their big hits on the pitch for most of the night, they
03:26got through two goals from Joe Willock and Callum Wilson, of course, getting the other
03:29one as well. And I mean, a lot of people have called Birmingham City sort of plucky underdogs,
03:33who sort of, you know, it was a real cup tie, but I think some of them, their challenges
03:38were perhaps a bit over the line, to be honest. Some of them, especially the ones like Joe
03:41Willock or Emile Kraft there, the ball had gone. I'm not buying the whole plucky underdog
03:46thing. I think in some cases they were just a bit dirty.
03:50Yeah, it was a crazy game, you're right. From that first minute when they scored, it was,
03:56you know, Birmingham scored, the crowd was up and that would have been the worst thing,
03:58you know, and Newcastle didn't want to get their crowd up and get them involved. And
04:02you're right, I think that for Birmingham, you know, 18 games unbeaten going into that
04:06game, they're a decent side. As much as that league won, Liverpool, you know, lost to Plymouth
04:12and technically Birmingham were only one place below sort of Plymouth and the Pyramids. So
04:16it wasn't an easy game and Newcastle dealt with it professionally. They dealt with everything
04:19Birmingham threw at them, bar the first goal and then that one, that's right, which to
04:23be fair, you could have any keeper in the world and that's, you know, it's just one
04:26of them moments. But they did, they did well. They got, they worked their way back into
04:30the game. It was a lot of hard work, you know, Nick Pope had more to do against Birmingham
04:34than the Dubravka did against Arsenal, certainly, but they stuck in the battle. They were up
04:38for the battle as well. You know, Willa Sula was brilliant, but he was also one where he
04:43was brilliant on the ball. He was scaring their defenders, but he was also willing to
04:46battle and fight. You know, he was getting stuck in. Sandro Tonali I thought was fantastic
04:52when he came on at halftime. He was sort of the difference maker. I think the first half
04:55was a bit chaotic and a bit like it was the second half of last year where the midfield
05:00didn't have really balanced and, you know, it was just a basketball game, but Tonali
05:03just sort of calmed it down in the second half. And it's no surprise that Nick Arsenal
05:06didn't concede in that second half and then obviously went on to win, because I think
05:09he just added that sort of, that level of, you know, calm to the group. Joe Willock getting
05:15two goals, you know, after the week he had all the, you know, all this stuff, horrendous
05:19racist abuse on social media. A week before it was good to see him get back and, you know,
05:24signing some crickets. The first goal, not sure if it crossed the line, but, you know.
05:29We'll never know. We'll never know.
05:30We'll never know, exactly. But, you know, sometimes you need that look. Callum Wilson
05:34was there, obviously, with a proper poacher's effort for the second and then his, Willock's
05:38second goal was a brilliant finish. You know, he started the move and was there in the right
05:41position to finish. So, yeah, much like Arsenal was a few days earlier, with a little bit
05:46more chaos in this one, it was a professional performance, particularly in the second half.
05:50And sometimes all you need, you know, all you need in good games is just to get the
05:53win and that's what they did. And with other big teams falling, Liverpool mentioned and
05:57a few others, you know, they've got a real chance of, you know, progressing if they get
06:01enough, if they beat Brighton in the next round, then they'll get away from Wembley
06:04again in the semi-finals. So, yeah, it's a massive opportunity for Newcastle.
06:07The old adage of having two London buses sort of thing, having waiting for ages for so many,
06:13for nothing to come and then suddenly two could, could come along at once. Technically
06:17three could come along at once because Newcastle aren't the only side who actually can still
06:21do a domestic treble, which is unbelievable to think about it. I mean, I think the league's
06:24probably a little bit out of their reach, but certainly in the two cup competitions,
06:28it's very much a possibility in my mind, at least. As you say there, Brighton in the fifth
06:33round of the FA Cup to come, very much winnable because Brighton, yes, they won at St. James's
06:37Park earlier on in the league. They're very much a hit and miss side this season. They
06:42can either be really good or, times as this organ's not in forest, 7-0, you know, they
06:47can take a real hiding off some teams. So I think if you can play them at their own
06:51game a little bit, you have a lot of luck against them because they've only got really
06:54one style of playing. And as obviously we've mentioned as well, Newcastle into the final
06:58of the League Cup. So Joe, could they, could they win two cups? Or is that just a bit of
07:02a pie in the sky thing?
07:03It's not pie in the sky because, you know, you take a look at any bookie's odds or anything,
07:07their second favourite for the FA Cup, obviously behind Man City. And I think you would fancy,
07:11Newcastle would fancy the chances that anyone they play left in the competition on any given
07:15day to win. I think you wanted a home draw, which they got. Yes, it's, you know, they
07:19preferred a lower league team, but ultimately it's a home draw against a Premier League
07:23team that, you know, isn't, I don't want to say one of the traditional top six, that's
07:26a horrendous sort of thing, but they'll fancy the chance against Brighton. And, you know,
07:30you get into that last eight, then as I said, they will want, they will fancy a chance against
07:35anyone. And if they can get, for me, it would be getting that first win at Wembley. Hopefully
07:39it comes in the current cup, of course, but if, if they lose to Liverpool, then if they
07:43can get the semi-finals and get that win, even in the semi-final, no, it doesn't end
07:47in a trophy, but it's just getting over that hoodoo, isn't it? And getting, and winning
07:50on a Wembley stage again, thinking actually, you know, we're here for a reason, we can
07:54do it on the big games. I think they've got a great chance. I think you just hope that
07:59their league form doesn't suffer too much as a result of all these cup runs. I mean,
08:03what are their info on the league? They'll return to the Champions League very probably.
08:06Will that suffer because of, you know, the mental exhaustion and physical exhaustion
08:10of having to play these cup games? Only time will tell, but they've got a chance. They've
08:14got a few real tough games coming up in the Premier League. And by the time that Brighton
08:18game comes, you know, within a couple of weeks at the beginning of March, they might have
08:20won a trophy. They might be in the last quarterfinal or might all be, you know, the dreams might
08:25all be dead. So it'd be an interesting sort of month and one that, you know, Newcastle
08:29United fans will hopefully look back on in years to come, thinking actually, this was
08:33when, you know, the make or break time of the season, that this sort of period, and
08:36yeah, we could be in for a real exciting few months.
08:39Yeah. And that's what's so exciting about Newcastle United at the moment, because yes,
08:42there's been some down points this season so far, you know, games at home, games away.
08:47But the fact that they are still in with a shot of getting to the Champions League, they
08:51are of course, in both cup competitions. It's really quite exciting and something that we've
08:55yearned for as Newcastle supporters for so many years. And so it is just fantastic to
09:00be a part of it and to see a side who can compete. We do have Manchester City away in
09:04the Premier League. Now, according to reports, Anthony Gordon, who was rested because of
09:07a small injury problem, will be fit to return at the Etihad. Dan Burns-Venbotten perhaps
09:13might still miss out with small injuries. To be honest, I think everyone's just looking
09:17towards the cup final a bit, aren't they, at the moment. So perhaps if you don't have
09:20the rest, then Emile Craft can deputise alongside Fabian Scheer. But given the way that Manchester
09:25City have been playing, they could go and get something and end another hoodoo at the
09:31Etihad, couldn't they?
09:32Yeah, exactly. Never won there in the Premier League. You know, there's no better time to
09:37face Man City at the Etihad, I think, than now. With the run of form they're in, and
09:40have been pretty much enough the last four or five months, in between games against Real
09:44Madrid, they're not out with a tie. Of course, losing 3-2 at home is not ideal, but they're
09:48certainly not out with that. So they'll have one eye on that next week. I think it's a
09:53shame that Botman and Burne injuries, not just because they're really good players and
09:56will be pushing them to start. I think Eddie Howe might have liked to play a similar formation
10:00that he did against Arsenal, with that 2-5 at the back. Obviously, he won't be able to
10:04do that if he's only got two-fifths centre-back. So that would be a shame if he's not able
10:08to do that, if that was his plan, of course. But yeah, I think they'll go full of confidence
10:12that they can do something. I think for Newcastle, for me, over the last couple of years at Man
10:16City, they've always looked at it and they've never really imposed themselves. They've always
10:19been a bit fearful. I would say fearful, actually. That and Anfield seem to be the two stadiums
10:25where they've sort of had that, where they've not imposed their game. They did it in the
10:28Emirates sort of early, last month in the Carabao. Hopefully, they can do it again this
10:32week. Because if they can't do it, put City under pressure, then they've got every chance
10:36to come away with a win. Especially again, if they can get an early goal, if they can
10:40get the crowd sort of not against the team, because I'm sure that City crowd won't turn
10:43against the team. If they can get them quiet and the vast majority of them are thinking,
10:47oh no, it's happening again, then Newcastle have a real chance of getting a win.
10:52And yeah, you're right in one, everything is built up that Cup final. And no doubt,
10:57every podcast, every article I write in the minute, to be honest, has the words Carabao Cup
11:00final somewhere in it. But they've still got really important games. It's City, Forest,
11:05Liverpool and West Ham all playing in the Premier League before that Cup final. So it's
11:09going to be a big period of season, but if they can get that win over Man City on the weekend,
11:13that'll just be a huge boost and one that will send fear into lots of Premier League teams.
11:17And actually, Newcastle mean business and they can go to big places like this after big wins
11:21in the Cup and still get results. Yeah, I mean, Man City have really flattened the
11:26scene in the last few games. You think Arsenal, of course, wide open at the back,
11:31of course, Arsenal scoring five against them. Then you look even at Leighton Orient. Yes,
11:34it was a changed team, but Leighton Orient essentially just played quite directly and
11:37they got results from that. Yes, they didn't win the game in the end, but Man City certainly was
11:41struggling in that game. And then of course, as you mentioned there, Real Madrid, not brilliant
11:44at all, especially losing it at the end. Confidence will be shattered from that.
11:48But that is all for now, Joe. We'll be back next week to see what has happened at Manchester City
11:52and look ahead to what is another huge game against Nottingham Forest at St. James's Park
11:56on the Sunday following. But until then, thank you all very much for watching and for listening.