La palabra de Diego Spagnuolo, titular de la Agencia Nacional de Discapacidad.
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NewsTranscript
00:00We have on the table an official who has surely been one of the most consulted of the week
00:06because it has been news on a topic that is really very serious, that worries,
00:12but we want to know why this happened and what is going to happen from now on.
00:16Diego Españolo, who is the head of the National Disabilities Agency, is with us.
00:22Thank you, Diego, for joining us.
00:24Hello, Clara. Thank you very much for inviting me to this program.
00:26So we can clarify a lot of doubts that are being generated around this issue
00:30of the auditing of the pension system.
00:32Diego, how does this come about?
00:34Why is it decided to start with this auditing of non-contributive pensions due to labor invalidity?
00:41Well, when we arrived at the agency,
00:43the first thing that caught our attention was the huge number of this type of pensions.
00:48They are pensions due to labor invalidity,
00:51which require a high percentage of labor incapacity for their grant.
00:57The number we found was 1,250,000.
01:01And when we analyzed the growth that there was since this benefit was created
01:05until we arrived, well, it caught our attention a lot
01:08because it jumped from 60,000 to 1,250,000
01:11without there being a war or a natural disaster in the middle.
01:15Throughout last year, we did an analysis of the entire pension system
01:21and we found a lot of irregularities that we reported as we found them.
01:29And well, that's why it took us so long to organize the audit that we are starting this week
01:43that we believe is very necessary.
01:45Diego, a question, because the number is really very high.
01:51More than a million non-contributive pensions due to invalidity
01:55that need, so that people understand, two fundamental requirements.
01:59You said a few moments ago, an invalidity that exceeds 66% and economic vulnerability.
02:05It is assumed that there are owners of those pensions that do not meet these requirements.
02:15I can give examples of both aspects.
02:17If we have detected people with 59 properties to their name,
02:22people with boats, people with aircraft.
02:25When is economic vulnerability?
02:27Of course.
02:28I repeat.
02:29People, this is in that aspect, economic vulnerability.
02:32People with constant exits and entrances to the country,
02:35that they realize that this situation of economic vulnerability is not such.
02:41Of course.
02:42Then with the other aspect, the physical,
02:44we have somehow moored that requirement,
02:48because before it was 76%, we have lowered it to 66%,
02:52which is still very high.
02:54But in that sense we have found everything.
03:00At the time it was discussed, I remember last year,
03:03that we commented here at Just and Necessary,
03:05and in fact I, in different programs where I am part of the journalistic team,
03:10literary texts instead of clinical stories.
03:12Exactly.
03:13Radiographies instead of humans, of animals.
03:15This is so concrete.
03:17That radiography was almost iconic, I would tell you,
03:21because it was the biography of a dog.
03:23And it was repeated.
03:24No, no, that was not repeated.
03:27That case was so rude that it did not go through medical control.
03:31The others did go through medical control.
03:33In a case, as you said, instead of presenting a laboratory study,
03:39or a medical study of another nature,
03:41what they presented was a poem by Gabriel Arias Uriburu,
03:44which was called La herida.
03:46In another case it was the radiography of a person's navel.
03:51That was the medical study for an abdominal hernia.
03:55This was just a link in the chain, because there was a chain.
03:58But there are many cases.
03:59Because this has to go through a file of this magnitude,
04:02where it has a social character, vulnerability, disability,
04:06it has to go through several factors and processes.
04:11At one point in the previous management,
04:12they left the medical controls aside.
04:14This benefit was focused only on the issue of socio-economic vulnerability,
04:18which also had its flaws.
04:20Hence, all these issues were ignored.
04:24The radiography of the dog was very grotesque,
04:27and that did not go through.
04:29Everything else went through.
04:31Then we found 157 identical radiographs of a broken shoulder,
04:39as documentation that endorsed the medical certificate that signed the SEMEO.
04:45And in the last audit we did,
04:49a person who applied for a pension for an amputated arm,
04:54came with both arms.
04:56We have a lot of these examples.
05:00This past week, let's see if this is true,
05:04300,000 letters of documents were sent.
05:09The people who receive these letters of documents
05:12have to present themselves, to comply with this.
05:17Yes, yes, yes.
05:18Let's see, I want to elaborate a little on this aspect.
05:21These 300,000 letters of documents were sent,
05:24which are the first batch.
05:25We are going to audit the entire pension system.
05:29Everything?
05:30Everything, everything, everything.
05:31Because we don't have a solid database.
05:34Many of these files are not computerized.
05:37So, the people who receive the benefit
05:40have to remain calm,
05:42because the benefit is not going to be taken away from them.
05:44The other day I received a message from a pension beneficiary,
05:50a little upset, because he had to bother another person
05:54to accompany him to do the interview with the doctor.
05:59We have been saying for a long time
06:01that unfortunately here they are paying just for sinners.
06:05Why?
06:06Let's see, this person should not be bothered,
06:09but hey, we have to bother her so that she goes
06:12and contests the doctor, so she maintains the pension.
06:16But I also tell that person
06:18that the other just people who are paying
06:21are the people who do not have this pension.
06:23So we have to regularize all this.
06:25Those who are waiting and need it.
06:28Those who are waiting and need it, and it corresponds to them.
06:30Diego, what happens if a person is cited by the Andes
06:35and cannot compete?
06:37In the letter of document that is going to arrive,
06:39it has the channels to communicate
06:42and justify this situation.
06:44And in those specific cases, a special treatment is going to be given.
06:47That is planned.
06:49Perfect.
06:50What invalidates yes and what does not?
06:53Why do I tell you this?
06:55Because there are many social media queries
06:58that are concerned about those who have a retirement due to a disability from ANSES,
07:03those who have a non-contributive pension due to a mother of seven or more children
07:07or for being over 70 years old.
07:09No, those pensions do not go into this audit.
07:12We are going to audit the pensions due to labor invalidity
07:15that were granted through the Andes.
07:18Perfect.
07:19Those who have an assistance character,
07:21who do not have a labor history behind them.
07:24I do not know which ones are those specifically.
07:27Specifically, those who ...
07:29Non-contributive pensions.
07:30Due to labor invalidity.
07:31Which are most of what the National Disabilities Agency handles.
07:36No, the National Agency handles those pensions.
07:38Of course.
07:39Then the other graceful pensions that are called,
07:41are granted by the Congress,
07:43the pension for a mother of seven children,
07:46I think it is from ANSES.
07:49Of course, Andes specifically,
07:51all that has to do with labor invalidity.
07:54The new grants.
07:56What do people have to know?
07:57A person is vulnerable.
07:58A person has more than 66% disability.
08:01He has to be calm.
08:02He meets those two requirements, he will be able to obtain it.
08:05Totally.
08:06We are designing a new procedure
08:11for the analysis and granting of these pensions.
08:14Today, and here we return to the issue of just for sinners.
08:17Today, the whole process of starting new pensions
08:20is also in some way overwhelmed.
08:23Oh, I do not know the word, but it is not overwhelmed.
08:26It's a bottleneck.
08:27We talked about it just before Trala.
08:30In addition to the 1,250,000 active pensions that we find,
08:34we also find 600,000 pension requests.
08:38That is, we would be talking about a total universe
08:41of 1,800,000 pensions.
08:44It is a number that does not resist the slightest analysis.
08:47But hey, we also have to treat each of those pensions
08:50that have started.
08:52That's why we also have ...
08:54The issue is coming slowly.
08:55Do you think that this audit process
08:58that started this past week
09:03will take the entire first semester of 2025?
09:07Or will it be extended throughout the year?
09:10Well, I'm not looking so much at the time
09:15that this is going to take me.
09:17I focus much more, and all our team, on doing it right.
09:21That is, we are trying to minimize the possibility of error as much as possible.
09:25Because we do not want to make the mistake that can happen to us,
09:30because we are talking about a million,
09:32of taking away the pension to whom it corresponds.
09:36Aside from what the audit will do,
09:40we are also working on other mechanisms
09:45that give us the security to make the right decision
09:49when it is time to lower a pension.
09:52Is the Unique Disability Certificate key
09:55in all this process of transparency?
09:58The Unique Disability Certificate can help us
10:02because we have to see which disability is certified in the CUD.
10:08So we are also going to consult the CUD database.
10:12We already know what we are going to find, Clara.
10:15We know what we are going to look for here.
10:18We want to grant all this procedure
10:23the greatest amount of security for subsequent attacks
10:28that can come to what we are doing.
10:31So we are taking great care of that.
10:33We are not only going to consult the CUD database,
10:37we are also going to consult the Include program.
10:39Because we have detected irregularities that are somehow connected
10:43and they give us the guidelines of how things are.
10:47Include Salud is very controversial, Diego.
10:49You know that.
10:50Why?
10:51In the case of decades ago,
10:53a social work, a manager,
10:56how it was that it was difficult for benefits to reach people.
11:00But Include Salud has nothing to do with social works.
11:03It has nothing to do with social works.
11:05On the contrary.
11:07Include Salud is a program that is not a social work,
11:10but we could, so that it is understood a little,
11:13we could assimilate a social work,
11:15so as not to give a more technical explanation,
11:18which depends exclusively on the National Disability Agency.
11:22It is a program financed with treasury resources.
11:25This is not contributory either.
11:27It provides benefits and medicines to people with disabilities.
11:31The budget to enter Include Salud
11:35is to have a non-contributory pension.
11:38So we also, from an investigation that we did,
11:43we have also detected irregularities
11:45between the granting of some pensions
11:48and the benefits that are given to people with disabilities.
11:52That's what I meant.
11:54Because people write to you, they tell you.
11:56People have to have the security that,
11:59we know what we are going to look for.
12:01We know what we are going to look for.
12:03We are not going to take the person who is entitled to the pension
12:07and we are extremizing the security measures
12:10of the entire procedure so that this does not happen.
12:13In the event that this happens, because we can make a mistake,
12:16we are going to solve it immediately.
12:19That is why it is also necessary ...
12:22We came here to sort this out a bit.
12:25We have exposed in a very clear way
12:28many irregularities that we have found.
12:32So we need people's collaboration and commitment
12:36to help us because it is a huge, huge task.
12:39There is something very important that seems to me to stand out
12:41and I have told this more than once in the last few weeks in the program.
12:45How is it being worked on in the process of speed up
12:49the granting of Unique Certificates of Disabilities?
12:52Well, we find ourselves there with another jam
12:58in the process of the CUDs.
13:01Why?
13:02Because the CUDs that won 22, 23 and 24
13:07in the years 22, 23 and 24 had been extended to the year 2025.
13:12So, imagine, to the new CUDs that there are,
13:18all the allusion of those who won in the following years is added.
13:21So we take first those who won 22, 23 and 24,
13:27it was extended until 2025.
13:30Those who won in 2025 were extended to the year 2026.
13:33Beyond that, which explains a little
13:36why there may be some delay in the granting of the CUDs,
13:41which is not so big,
13:42and the people, I want to clarify this,
13:45the people to whom the CUD is granted,
13:47can apply in advance for the renewal
13:50so that they do not have a window period
13:52in which they are without the benefits granted by the CUD.
13:55We have removed the paper money.
13:58Today the CUD is digital.
14:00People can consult their CUD and can take it,
14:03if they have a cell phone,
14:05through the My Argentina application
14:07or through the page myargentina.go.ar
14:10or Barrandís, there you will have the CUD.
14:12And if not, they can at some point
14:14have the photocopy of the QR that the CUD has.
14:20The person to whom they have to present it
14:23scans the QR and it is directly linked to the database
14:27and everything that the CUD needs appears.
14:29Well, surely it has been a very intense week, Diego.
14:32That is why I highly value that you have come
14:35just in time to tell us all this,
14:37which somehow brings tranquility to people
14:40and explains why they decided to start with this hearing.
14:44Thank you, Diego.
14:45No, thank you.