👉 Se discute la creciente inseguridad en Argentina, destacando la falta de prevención del delito y la necesidad de reformar el código penal. Se menciona que las políticas públicas actuales no son suficientes para prevenir conductas graves.
👉 Un vecino de Ciudadela expresan su miedo e impotencia ante la situación, a pesar de las medidas de seguridad privada que han implementado. Se hace un llamado a la inversión en seguridad y a una mayor presencia estatal para combatir el problema.
👉 Seguí en #ArribaDomingo
📺 a24.com/vivo
👉 Un vecino de Ciudadela expresan su miedo e impotencia ante la situación, a pesar de las medidas de seguridad privada que han implementado. Se hace un llamado a la inversión en seguridad y a una mayor presencia estatal para combatir el problema.
👉 Seguí en #ArribaDomingo
📺 a24.com/vivo
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NewsTranscript
00:00This could be an instance of change in Argentina from now on.
00:02Thank you for coming.
00:03Good morning.
00:04I was scared that I hadn't introduced you in time and shape.
00:06No problem, good morning. How are you?
00:08Yes, I think that crime has several edges, right?
00:12But if there is something clear, it is that the criminal code does not prevent it.
00:16The criminal code is to punish when the State could not anticipate
00:20those serious behaviors, the damage that you were transmitting.
00:25The prevention of crime is generated with other public policies.
00:29For example, video surveillance, patrolling, fighting illegal weapons,
00:34problematic consumption.
00:36The conurbano is absolutely anomic.
00:39There is no State.
00:40Everyone does what they want.
00:42The strongest is right and imposes its truth by force.
00:46Does the criminal code need reform?
00:48Yes, of course.
00:50Since the beginning of the 20th century,
00:53many criminal laws have been made that extend criminal types,
00:58that extend penalties, that lower penalties, that take out...
01:00Nobody knows what is worth more, what is worth less.
01:03If life, if property, if a robbery is more,
01:07you have to have a higher penalty than a homicide.
01:09Well, the criminal code needs to adapt to the new times.
01:13But if there is something clear, it is that it does not prevent crime.
01:16It gives me the feeling that it is more a security problem, on the one hand,
01:20than the existence or non-existence of the criminal code,
01:22or the possibility of committing a crime or not.
01:24Because, in fact, the vast majority of people know that they commit a crime
01:27when they are committing it, and even know the penalty.
01:29But there is a problem that is more linked to the root,
01:32on the one hand, education.
01:34Another is the general socioeconomic situation,
01:37and a change in culture, clearly.
01:39And the third is that securities are not working properly.
01:42That is more than clear.
01:44I add the issue of drugs and alcohol.
01:48Especially in these areas where marginality has become a law.
01:54What is happening in the Bonaerense suburb, and in many suburbs,
01:58I come from being in Tucumán, I was months ago in the Gran Rosario,
02:03the same thing happens in the Gran Córdoba,
02:05La Plata, Bahia Blanca, Mar del Plata,
02:07the main cities of the country are shaken by this same criminality phenomenon.
02:11Yes, even Mar del Plata, where Karina Yabicoli is,
02:13has the mote of happiness,
02:15but its periphery is the most violent in the province of Buenos Aires.
02:19Exactly, and you have been anticipating this for years.
02:22It's not that you don't talk about it in other segments
02:25when you find children abandoned by drugs.
02:28It's not that you don't talk about it when you find weapons or abuse of weapons.
02:32You have been talking about each of the issues that affect insecurity.
02:36Of course, when the problem is there, yes, we need the police to arrive quickly,
02:41that whoever does it pays for it, but here no one pays for what they do.
02:44Leandro, here I go with the question,
02:47because it is said that these people commit a certain crime or do a certain thing
02:54because nothing happens,
02:56because they know that in the end they will not pay for what they do.
03:00There is no place in prisons, Gaby.
03:02Well, here I go.
03:03That's not so true.
03:04Guillermo is talking today about reiterance,
03:07which is precisely one of the battle horses
03:10with which the government presents this modification to discuss the criminal code.
03:16The reiterance supposedly comes to end with this rotating door.
03:22For what?
03:23For the one who steals not to be walking like us on the street, right?
03:27The idea is that,
03:28is to generate an instance in which the one who steals anything goes to jail.
03:34For example, those we just saw in Campana.
03:37Yes, but you have to wire.
03:39Well, here we go.
03:41You have to wire half of Argentina, if that's the case.
03:43This is the question.
03:44In addition, Gaby, the population of the Federal Penitentiary Service grew by almost 3.4%.
03:50On the one hand ...
03:51The overpopulation of prisons, of police stations in Cancaba.
03:54I say, recently we had a leak in the police station.
03:56On the one hand, we punish.
03:58And police officers who play a role that does not correspond to them to take care of prisoners when they should be in the streets.
04:03On the one hand, we punish.
04:04There are prisoners.
04:05And we put prisoners, but on the other hand, they will not give up.
04:08The jails, the Alcaidías, the police stations to detain so many criminals.
04:13Arrested for preventive prisons that, perhaps, in this reality ...
04:18Well, the penitentiary system does not work directly with criminal policy.
04:24It administers the consequences, right?
04:26So, if there is a place or not, it is something that they should foresee and they should build more space.
04:30The truth is that the reiteration, for example, if that law is modified,
04:34it does not affect the province of Buenos Aires because it is a procedural law.
04:38And the Penal Procedural Code is provincial.
04:41The modification in terms of reiteration is for federal crimes.
04:47And occurred in the city where we do not have this problem.
04:50Sometimes they deceive us with the modifications.
04:53The province should adhere to a law ...
04:55Yes, but it does not usually happen because ...
04:57One second.
04:58I'm going to go to this screen.
05:01And I'm going to tell you again what you've already seen, because it's amazing to me.
05:05And I also love the topic that Gabriel Prosperi put on this table, which is security investment.
05:11Because the security investment that the neighbor made is useful for us to tell the story and nothing else.
05:17Because everything he did to prevent being robbed did not work for him.
05:21Let's start again.
05:22Let's put the video back and then we'll go back to our cell phone.
05:2612 noon. Ciudadela. A street in any neighborhood.
05:31A car arrives, in this case a Clio.
05:34Slowly, very few people are seen.
05:36Virtually no one in the street parks.
05:39So far, the sequence of a common, daily scene in any neighborhood in Argentina.
05:46Some cars passing by, other neighbors going to the other side,
05:49a man who is now going to pass through this sidewalk with a bag,
05:52and the guys who cross the street pretending to be from the neighborhood, talking on the phone.
05:56Their faces are recorded.
05:58This must also be said, beyond that they have glasses and a cap.
06:01They use a way to enter, to violate the gate, with an inhibitor.
06:09They make sure that there is no one in the house.
06:12They look inside.
06:13Notice how they check.
06:14There they are checking.
06:16And now they take out the tools that Gabriel says they use.
06:21A chisel and a hammer.
06:24They hit the bar.
06:26They break it with those blows.
06:28Of course, because notice that the wall breaks.
06:30Correct.
06:31And the first intruder enters.
06:34With black gloves on.
06:35Both are wearing gloves so as not to leave traces.
06:38It is uncomfortable for him.
06:39He takes a shot.
06:40He pulls out the other bar.
06:42And he gets inside the house.
06:44The second intruder.
06:45With time.
06:47And now comes the end of the story.
06:49Edited, of course.
06:51They have been in the house for five minutes.
06:53He comes out.
06:54By the way, they break the pot.
06:56They take out a thermos.
06:57Look how unusual.
06:58A thermos.
06:59The audio equipment that they are going to load in the truck.
07:02We saw they arrived in a Clio.
07:03It is not theirs.
07:04It is from the family they are stealing.
07:06A suitcase that is from the family they are stealing.
07:08With things inside.
07:09They load everything in the truck.
07:11They know they are filming.
07:12They know they are recording.
07:13Because they wear a hood, a cap, glasses.
07:15And they take the truck.
07:17We would not know all this if these people had not put the bars.
07:22They would not have put the gate so that they would not enter.
07:24They would not have put this security camera.
07:26I hope they serve to stay with those who violated their house.
07:30But I loved the topic, Gabriel.
07:32Of the investment.
07:34That in this case serves us for nothing more than to register the case.
07:38And that we are telling it now.
07:40Give me a second, nothing more.
07:41I want to spend a few seconds with Selmira Polaco.
07:44Who is working live in the place.
07:46And who surely has things to tell.
07:48Because she is there.
07:49There.
07:50With the people who live in the neighborhood.
07:51Selmira.
07:52Look.
07:53Let's go through the neighborhood.
07:54With this rain, this weather.
07:56The neighbors are approaching to report robberies and insecurity.
07:59How is it to live here in Ciudadela?
08:01Complicated.
08:02How long have you been here?
08:03Look at the fence behind.
08:04And this western area of terror.
08:08There is a lot of insecurity.
08:10I don't know.
08:11You can't live anymore.
08:13They drive you crazy.
08:14You have to run into your house.
08:16You have to be locked up.
08:17And it's not possible.
08:18Ask him if he can.
08:20How much did the fence on the door cost him?
08:22Seven years.
08:23He doesn't even remember.
08:24It's been years.
08:25I ask.
08:26How much did the fence on the door cost you?
08:28How long have you been doing this?
08:29No.
08:30This practically.
08:31I live here.
08:32My partner rents.
08:34And I think logically here you have to be super locked up.
08:38Even if you are locked up and everything.
08:40It doesn't matter.
08:41Did you know about the entrance?
08:42Yes.
08:43Yes, because a colleague of yours was there.
08:45He asked me.
08:46I had no idea what had happened.
08:48I say, this is normal.
08:50This is the last moment.
08:52We receive messages that inform us that on Friday 8 in the morning,
08:56also through Caxaraville, they stole a deposit at 8 in the morning.
09:00Did you know that?
09:01I was also interested.
09:02What do you know about the deposit?
09:03Look.
09:05I don't know much about the neighborhood.
09:08The truth is that I work in the capital.
09:11I leave at 7 in the morning and return at 6 in the afternoon.
09:14I find out about the neighbors.
09:16But the truth is that this is terror.
09:18It's complicated to come back here at 7 in the afternoon.
09:20Yes, here they steal at any time.
09:22They don't respect the day anymore.
09:24Directly at 11 in the morning.
09:26Entering a house is a crazy thing.
09:2911 in the morning.
09:30At dawn, everyone is sleeping.
09:33But they enter at 11 in the morning.
09:35It's terror.
09:36One of the criminals already had records of theft, drugs, theft.
09:40What do you have to do?
09:41I don't know.
09:42Hard hand.
09:43A lot of hard hands.
09:44But here in the capital, I don't talk much about politics because I don't like it.
09:48But here, politics is a province of terror.
09:51Nothing is done.
09:53What precautions do you take?
09:55Look, I don't know.
09:56I can't live thinking something is going to happen to me.
09:59If not, it's not life.
10:00Have they ever stolen from you?
10:02They stole the two wheels of the car.
10:04Here in Ciudadela?
10:05Here in Ciudadela, yes.
10:06But never armed hands?
10:07No.
10:08Thank God.
10:09A little wood, of course.
10:10A little wood.
10:11Thank God.
10:12It never happened to me.
10:13But well, if it happened to me, I don't know how I would react.
10:16My adrenaline, if it happens to me, it will be very high.
10:19But still, let's see.
10:20Coming home at 7 in the afternoon.
10:22Yes.
10:23What do you do?
10:24Do you have to go for a walk?
10:25Do you do any strange movement?
10:26What precautions do you take?
10:27Last night, I thought I was going to have an ice cream.
10:29And when I came back, two motorcycles passed.
10:31I left the car on the move.
10:33The two that passed me, I grabbed them first and I ran.
10:36Or I pass them from above.
10:37I don't care about their lives.
10:39Do you remember when it was the last time you walked quietly around the neighborhood?
10:42Never.
10:43You can never walk quietly.
10:46There is no way to live in the capital.
10:48And now it's worse than before?
10:49Yes, it's much worse.
10:51Because nothing is done here.
10:53There is no...
10:54Because there are cameras, bars, they have everything.
10:56Yes, but there are no policemen who patrol all day.
10:59There is a lot of difference between the capital and the province.
11:02I work in the capital.
11:04And something happens in two minutes.
11:06You have 200 patrolmen, motorcycles.
11:09Here they don't have anything.
11:11They stop the mobile phones.
11:12The furniture is all messed up.
11:14You don't know what it is.
11:15The other day I passed by the police station.
11:16There was a truck that was wrecked.
11:18But well.
11:20What can I do?
11:21I can't do anything.
11:22The politicians have to solve the problem.
11:25No, I don't.
11:26But you live badly.
11:27Here in the province, sorry.
11:29In the province you live very badly.
11:32Would you like to live in another neighborhood?
11:34Or do you still bet on the city?
11:35No, the truth is...
11:37I can't bet.
11:38I want them to give me security.
11:40You want to live quietly.
11:41I want to live quietly.
11:42Like all the citizens who live here in the province.
11:45We need security.
11:48Good interview.
11:50We will be right back live with you.
11:52We are with Leandro Alperin.
11:54So, the question is.
11:56Is any reform proposal of a criminal code useful today?
12:00Or is the situation going the other way?
12:02Clearly, it is interdisciplinary.
12:04That is out of the question.
12:05It is not a single thing that solves the security or insecurity problem
12:09that is once again the protagonist in Argentina.
12:11When there were other concerns,
12:13such as inflation, that money was not enough,
12:15the lack of work,
12:16but now again insecurity begins to be in some sectors
12:19above any concern of the citizens.
12:23Clearly, it is not a single solution.
12:25It can be cut from a place, but it is not.
12:27The interviewee said it.
12:29You cross the General Paz and security is not the same
12:31and the criminal code is the same.
12:33It is true that the criminal code needs to be updated.
12:37It is also true that they never agree
12:40and that each government has its own criminal code
12:42and we need them to agree
12:44because security does not affect the ministers.
12:47It affects us,
12:49it does not matter who we vote for.
12:51It affects us equally.
12:52So, each one comes with his book,
12:54erases the book from the previous one,
12:56they do not speak between a minister of the nation
12:58with the one of the province, with the one of the city.
13:00Well, first of all, more than code modifications,
13:02we need them to dialogue
13:04and that it does not matter if one crosses the street,
13:06that from the General Paz to here or anywhere,
13:08it is the same and that the police take care of us in the same way.
13:11Secondly, yes, that they have a serious diagnosis
13:14about why what happens happens.
13:16Because these levels of anomia,
13:18of gestation of criminal subcultures,
13:20of corruption,
13:22of police and political complicity
13:24with the world of crime
13:26is no longer a joke.
13:28Today it costs lives,
13:30it is not that it is the game, the quince,
13:32the cell phone in the bar.
13:34Today it is drug trafficking, today it is fentanyl,
13:36today it is human trafficking.
13:38Today they are lives that bleed every day
13:40in the Bonarense conurbation.
13:42They are whole families,
13:44they are policemen who die,
13:46they are people who could have had another life.
13:49So what do we ask them?
13:51Serious diagnoses, responsible agreements
13:53and stable public policies.
13:55Now there are different matrices, right?
13:57Different matrices of crime,
13:59because one can think of marginality.
14:01A marginality that, unfortunately,
14:03negotiates those who have,
14:05as a vertebrate epicenter,
14:07as a vertebrate axis,
14:09drug trafficking.
14:11But the robbery we just saw,
14:13those men were not cultivated in marginality.
14:16Those men are prepared to commit a crime.
14:18They have an organigram in their head
14:20and a mental structure.
14:22It is their job, in quotation marks.
14:24In fact, look at the tranquility they do.
14:26It is their job, in quotation marks.
14:28It is not a product of marginality.
14:30And it is not the same.
14:32And probably this type of crime
14:34has always existed and will continue to exist.
14:36But this crime ...
14:38This is the one that has always been.
14:40If it were this one, we would work.
14:42With criminal intelligence one can prevent
14:44the other. It is anomic.
14:46It springs from the floor.
14:48We don't know when, we don't know where,
14:50we don't know why, we don't know who.
14:52Well, that's how we are too.
14:54Alperín, thank you for coming.
14:56Thank you very much.