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00:00I was getting fed up of being labelled as a serious actor
00:03and I wanted to be, which actor doesn't want to be famous?
00:07Which actor doesn't want to be popular?
00:10I mean come on, sure I wanted to be famous and I wanted to be popular as well
00:14It was just my good luck
00:16that the kind of films I did at the beginning of my career came along
00:19I didn't choose them, they chose me
00:25Why should you watch?
00:27Because everybody likes to hear a good story
00:31I don't think you can disagree with that
00:33Right from the time you're a baby
00:36being put to sleep by mama
00:40and she tells you these stories about
00:45poor princesses and princes who come to rescue them
00:49and a wicked sorcerer
00:51and the dragon and the horse who flies
00:54and so on
00:55We all get turned on to stories very early I think
00:58because of the influence of mothers mainly
01:02I don't know too many fathers who tell stories to their children
01:06unless they are boastful ones
01:10But I do know a few
01:17So I think this fascination with
01:20listening to a good story
01:22whether it's told to you via pictures
01:26or whether it's told to you via music
01:30or whether it's told to you via opera
01:32or whether it's told to you via actors on stage
01:36but I think that the content of the story is most important
01:41and that is why though we've performed Ismat Apa Ke Naam
01:44in Dubai a few times
01:46our sponsors still felt confident that we could pull in an audience
01:50and because it's been very
01:53we've received a lot of love
01:55every time we've performed there
01:57and we've had a mix of Indian and Pakistani people who live in Dubai
02:02which is quite wonderful
02:04and so that's the reason
02:08you should see it
02:09if you want to hear three really cracking stories
02:13written by one of India's greatest writers
02:18she wrote in Urdu
02:20and her work has been translated into English
02:24which are rather poor translations
02:26they don't do justice to
02:28but no translation ever can
02:30so I'd suggest to anybody who's listening
02:33and who's interested in Ismat Apa
02:35to not read the stories in English first
02:39read them either in Devanagari
02:42or read them in Urdu if you read Urdu
02:44because the beauty of her turn of phrase
02:48and her wicked sense of humor
02:51and her keen observation of life
02:56it's quite something
02:57Really, that's brilliant
02:59and I know your wife was telling me
03:02that you are a very tough taskmaster when it comes to Urdu
03:06and her Urdu was let's say
03:08questionable I would say in the beginning
03:10now I'm sure she's aced it, nailed it
03:12but how did you?
03:13were you frustrated?
03:14how frustrating was it to perhaps
03:16you know, a mould actor
03:18who don't know the language
03:19because Ratna has a facility with languages
03:22she speaks Hindi of course
03:26she speaks Marathi
03:27she speaks Gujarati
03:28she speaks a bit of Bengali
03:29and she can understand a bit of Kannada as well
03:33so Urdu wasn't such an alien language
03:38and she has a gift for speech
03:41which in fact the first time I watched her rehearse
03:44which was around the first time we met
03:46while rehearsing a play for Satyajit Dubey
03:48I was very impressed by the clarity of her voice
03:51and her diction
03:54and she easily managed it
03:58she had a tough time with certain things
04:02because I kept correcting her again and again
04:04because these are not sounds your tongue is accustomed to
04:08the khs and the hrs and the uh
04:11the same way as my tongue is not accustomed to
04:14the South Indian languages' sounds
04:17I had to do
04:18I had not had to do
04:20I did happily two Kannada films
04:22a long time ago
04:25I did one Malayalam film
04:27which was, you know
04:28I just found it impossible
04:29to get my tongue around those sounds
04:32and no matter how hard I tried
04:35even if I got the words right
04:37they had to dub my voice
04:39because I don't have that facility
04:42that Ratna has
04:43and then Heba, the other actor in it
04:45my daughter
04:46first language she learned to speak was Persian
04:49so for her Urdu was no obstacle at all
04:52and Ratna had a reservation about
04:56will anybody understand this?
04:59wouldn't it be boring to see just one actor on stage
05:03just talking away
05:05and initially that was the conception I had for the production
05:08but as we kept rehearsing
05:10more and more ideas kept occurring to me
05:12because the stories Isma Tapa has written
05:14a lot of them
05:15sound like they're from my family
05:17I know this territory, you know
05:20of the fading aristocracy
05:24the small town Muslim
05:27you know, people and their tendencies
05:31and I really identified completely with it
05:34I just found it tremendous resonance
05:36I felt she's talking about my family
05:38and so as I kept thinking about it
05:41as we kept rehearsing it
05:42more and more ideas kept occurring to me
05:45visuals from my childhood
05:47in this little place that my family comes from
05:50kept coming back to me
05:52and so I just incorporated all that
05:54so it's a storytelling
05:57using theatrical devices
06:01yeah, that's how I would sum it up
06:04how do you define yourself as a director?
06:06do you have a certain way of functioning?
06:10do you tell what to do?
06:12or do you show them?
06:14what's your process like?
06:15no, I never show the actors anything
06:18because as it is
06:21most of them, apart from my wife
06:24are in awe of me
06:26so if I demonstrate something
06:29it's not a good idea
06:31then they end up having limitations on me
06:34so I don't, you know
06:36to tell you the truth
06:38it's always the play which chooses me
06:40it sounds like a cliche but it's really true
06:42that every time, any play that I've done
06:45as a professional
06:46has been one which
06:48I happened to read
06:50and felt impelled to do
06:54whether it was waiting for Godot
06:56or whether it was the Zoot story
06:58or whether it was the K.N. Mutiny court martial
07:00or whether it was
07:02Julius Caesar or anything
07:05including the stories by Ismat Sukhtai
07:08which we've been doing for almost 20 years now
07:11several of the stories we have staged
07:13so when I begin a play
07:16I really can't claim I understand it
07:19the process of understanding happens
07:22while you're engaging with it
07:24so I never decide
07:26I make several actors read
07:29and I then decide who will play what
07:34I never decide the set
07:36I never determine the moves
07:38and I never fix them in stone
07:41I leave freedom for the actors
07:44to add what they feel they should
07:47and nothing is rigid
07:52you have to get up at this time
07:54you have to go at this
07:55all that stuff I don't
07:57so I try to
07:59help them trust themselves
08:03first of all
08:05which is very important
08:07sorry to interrupt you but
08:08first of all
08:09before we begin anything
08:10I make them read
08:11and read and read and read
08:13and read and read and read
08:15the script
08:16so they absorb
08:18what is being said
08:19before they start
08:20showing off their acting abilities
08:22okay sorry what were you asking?
08:23I'm saying you're very democratic then
08:25as a director
08:26because I've heard of
08:27theatrical mavens saying
08:29it's my way or the highway
08:31and they love it
08:32they love throwing that weight around
08:34they are the trap genius
08:36like I am so bad at what I do
08:38but you don't know
08:39I know
08:40I know the best
08:41no I don't
08:42I don't believe I know the best
08:43no
08:44except where diction is concerned
08:46that's more the best
08:47then it's my way or the highway
08:50particularly since we do so much in Urdu
08:52yeah of course I feel
08:53and Urdu is such a
08:55it's a difficult language
08:56and people are quite harsh
08:57if you get it wrong
08:58when I speak Hindi I get it
09:00if you think Urdu
09:01you speak Malayalam?
09:02which language do you speak?
09:03Malayalam I speak Malayalam well
09:05oh boy
09:06yeah if you think Urdu is hard
09:10Malayalam is it's mother you know
09:13is it okay I feel slightly better
09:15do you think all the characters in this play
09:18are you know relevant for the contemporary audiences
09:22because somewhere I feel
09:23we have social media now
09:24we can't even decide
09:25whether we want a vegan burger or not
09:27how do we really relate to something
09:29that was written so many years ago
09:31do you think
09:32because
09:33do I think that it's relevant
09:34yeah I hate that word
09:36but
09:37let's say does it appeal to our contemporary
09:39I mean
09:40I think so because
09:42human nature hasn't changed
09:46you know
09:47the psychology of
09:49intimate relationships hasn't changed
09:53the tendency to
09:55paint women into a corner
09:58hasn't changed
09:59the tendency to reduce women to
10:02helpless creatures who need protection
10:04hasn't changed
10:06you know
10:07and
10:08and that is what Ismat's writing is all about
10:10all her stories about women
10:15it's too
10:16you know
10:17too
10:19mundane to call her a feminist
10:20she's not a feminist
10:22she's a humanist
10:23and she talks about the pain
10:25that she has seen
10:27and the pain that she feels for
10:29and in fact she says
10:30I don't write political stories
10:31because
10:32I don't know about the farmer
10:33I don't know about the mill worker
10:35I don't want to give half-baked ideas about them
10:38I write about people in societies
10:39I know
10:41and
10:42that is why
10:43I think you'll be astonished
10:46do you follow much Urdu or not?
10:48I do, I do
10:49I enjoy it
10:50I find it very romantic
10:51but yeah
10:53I think you'll enjoy these plays
10:55even though you may not understand
10:56the intricacies of the language
10:58may not
10:59but
11:01you will
11:02you will probably be surprised
11:04at how relevant
11:06the whole
11:07issues that she talks about
11:09are
11:10even today
11:11I mean the first story is about
11:13a village girl
11:15who gives birth to a baby
11:17in a train
11:18you know
11:19till today
11:20you read stories of
11:22laborer women
11:23who give birth aboard a local train
11:25you know
11:27the second is about this man
11:29who deserts his wife
11:31and then keeps coming back
11:32and
11:33it's a very funny
11:34and very tragic story
11:35at the same time
11:36and the third is about
11:37an elderly
11:38bachelor
11:39and a young servant girl
11:41so
11:42they're pretty
11:43spicy
11:44the third one in particular
11:45I'm sure
11:46I've heard that
11:47I've read the reviews
11:48and I was like okay
11:49you're going to town with it
11:50aren't you?
11:51you had a bit of fun
11:52wicked fun
11:53it's for an actor
11:54it's challenging
11:55it's fun
11:56absolutely
11:57if you want to have fun on the stage
11:58then you should not be an actor
12:01and speaking of fun
12:02I think this is the most fun
12:03you've had
12:04I think you're going through
12:05a lot of pathways
12:06in your career
12:07you're doing roles
12:08in series
12:09in theatre
12:10you're doing what you love
12:11and I think
12:12there's a lot of work for you
12:13am I wrong?
12:14or
12:15I just feel you're
12:16absolutely
12:17you're on the ball
12:18absolutely on the button
12:19I'm enjoying myself more
12:20than I have through
12:21in fact
12:22since I turned 50
12:23and
12:25you know
12:26sort of
12:27receded into
12:28character
12:29actor category
12:30I'm receiving
12:31more interesting
12:32parts than I did
12:33as a young man
12:35put aside
12:36the early phase
12:37of my career
12:38when I got
12:39these wonderful
12:40parts in all
12:41these great movies
12:42Masoom
12:43being the culmination
12:44of it
12:45there were movies
12:46like Akrosh
12:47and Nishant
12:48and Manthan
12:49and you know
12:50so many of them
12:51Albert Pinto
12:52and Jaane Di Dohyaro
12:53and everything
12:54but
12:55then I went through
12:56a bit of
12:57a bum phase
12:58where I had
12:59where I
13:00I decided to make
13:01a lot of money
13:02and
13:03and I managed
13:04yeah
13:05absolutely
13:06and I saw
13:07no reason why
13:08I shouldn't work
13:09for money
13:10rather than
13:11sit at home
13:12why should we be
13:13ashamed of working
13:14for money
13:15and what else
13:16do we all do
13:17greed is good
13:18sure
13:19greed good
13:20yeah
13:21those who say
13:22money can't
13:23buy happiness
13:24don't know
13:25what they're
13:26talking about
13:27for sure
13:28people with money
13:29say crap like that
13:30I would
13:31I would
13:32I would
13:33but the commercial
13:34industry
13:35has given me
13:36a good life
13:37and I don't
13:38deny
13:39that I wanted
13:40to be part of it
13:41I was getting
13:42fed up of being
13:43labeled as the
13:44serious actor
13:45and I wanted
13:46to be
13:47which actor
13:48doesn't want
13:49to be famous
13:50which actor
13:51doesn't want
13:52to be popular
13:53I mean come on
13:54sure I wanted
13:55to be famous
13:56and I wanted
13:57to be popular
13:58as well
13:59it was just
14:00my good luck
14:01that the kind
14:02of people
14:03chose me
14:04Shyam Benegal
14:05spotted me
14:06and then Govind
14:07and then Saiz
14:08and Ketan
14:09and everybody else
14:10so I'm
14:11grateful for that
14:12and I'm grateful
14:13for the phase
14:14though I didn't
14:15enjoy it
14:16where I did
14:17two shootings
14:18per day
14:19for two different
14:20films
14:21you know
14:22because it gave
14:23me a good life
14:24it exposed me
14:25to an audience
14:26which didn't
14:27know me
14:28and then films
14:29like Karma
14:30and films
14:31which I
14:32appreciate
14:33but
14:34but I have
14:35to say
14:36that what I
14:37enjoy most
14:40what I've always
14:41enjoyed most
14:42is to do
14:43films which
14:44are a mirror
14:45of their times
14:49and I think
14:50those are the
14:51films that are
14:52important
14:53and those are
14:54the films that
14:55will be important
14:56for posterity
14:57it's quite okay
14:58with me
14:59I don't know
15:00if you've seen
15:01Dil and
15:02Afwa
15:03made by Sudhir
15:04Dil was made
15:05by Anubhav Sinha
15:06and another film
15:07called Faraz
15:08made by Hansal
15:10all of which
15:11collapsed at the
15:12box office
15:13and a film like
15:14Kerala Story
15:15is doing roaring
15:16business
15:17it's okay
15:18that's the thrill
15:19the audience provides
15:20these films don't
15:21but
15:22I don't regret
15:23and these
15:24filmmakers should
15:25not regret
15:26having made
15:27these films
15:28because they will
15:30it's a record
15:31of their times
15:32it's a record
15:33of their times
15:34but in all seriousness
15:35last question of course
15:36I know you're
15:37very tired
15:38but are you
15:39loving this space
15:40what kind of a
15:41moment are you
15:42having right now
15:43Mr. Shah
15:44in your life
15:45career
15:46I'm loving it
15:47absolutely
15:48loving it
15:49because I'm
15:50not being
15:51pressured
15:52to
15:53do anything
15:54I'm not
15:55getting those
15:56pressures now
15:57I'm relieved
15:58that
15:59I'm not
16:00being asked
16:01to do intense
16:02lengthy parts
16:03any longer
16:04I'm relishing
16:05doing cameos
16:06in movies
16:07made by friends
16:08like Vishal
16:09like Anubhav Sinha
16:10you know like
16:11Homi
16:12Arjania
16:13Arjania
16:14yeah
16:15I hope
16:16Homi you're
16:17listening
16:18what's your
16:19bloody name
16:20so
16:21beep again
16:22I hope
16:23Homi is the
16:24funniest guy
16:25I know
16:26so
16:27I'm enjoying
16:28doing that
16:29you know
16:30two or
16:31three days
16:32work
16:33with people
16:34you like
16:35and just
16:36go home
16:37and rest
16:38and the rest
16:39of the time
16:40read
16:41or do
16:42something else
16:43you know
16:44trying to learn
16:45how to play
16:46the flute
16:47is that your thing
16:48now
16:49so I'm
16:50trying to
16:51keep learning
16:52something
16:53at this age
16:54otherwise
16:55I can
16:56squat and
16:57brush
16:58what can
16:59you do
17:00there has to
17:01be
17:02I can
17:03read backwards
17:04very fast
17:05you know
17:06I got this
17:07this thing
17:08on facebook
17:09which had a
17:10whole passage
17:11printed backwards
17:12and said if
17:13you can read
17:14this you
17:15have an
17:16incredible talent
17:17but a
17:18completely useless
17:19irrelevant talent
17:20I'm glad
17:21I'm so glad
17:22we're nailing
17:23this thing
17:24I love it
17:25I love it
17:26I hope you
17:27continue to
17:28speed date
17:29with roles
17:30it works
17:31you've done
17:32so well
17:33and thank you
17:34for entertaining
17:35us
17:36both of you
17:37are so
17:38incredibly
17:39the entire
17:40family is
17:41talented
17:42thank you
17:43for entertaining
17:44us
17:45can't wait
17:46to see you
17:47again
17:48it's a
17:49blessing
17:50I hope
17:51I'll see
17:52you at the