Video Information: 07.12.2020, Interview Session, Rishikesh, Uttrakhand
Context:
~ How to set priorities?
~ How to be free?
~ What is freedom?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .
Context:
~ How to set priorities?
~ How to be free?
~ What is freedom?
Music Credits: Milind Date
~~~~~~~~~~~~~ .
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Acharya ji, I am very grateful to you.
00:05I am able to spend this moment with you.
00:07I am able to solve the problems in my mind.
00:11As you know, I am a performing artist.
00:15I have been listening to you for the past 3 years.
00:18I tell my parents, siblings and my entire family about you.
00:24I don't know how much change is coming.
00:27My experience is that I left Mumbai's Chakka Chaund.
00:34My web series was at its peak at that time.
00:40I worked as an actress.
00:43I came here during COVID.
00:46It's been a year.
00:50I am from Uttarakhand but I didn't know this place.
00:55I was like a tourist here.
00:57I was a soldier's kid.
01:00My background was like that.
01:03Finally, I wanted to reconnect with my roots here in Uttarakhand.
01:09Entire one year went about traversing the uncharted territories.
01:17Writing poetry, singing songs.
01:20This was a long-awaited solo trip.
01:23I completely left.
01:25Couldn't take Mumbai and the overwhelming vastness of the city.
01:33I saw the smugness amongst the villagers.
01:38I visited my native place called Toli.
01:41This is my ancestral home.
01:44Almost 78 years old.
01:48I saw this depth and stillness in the minds and faces of all these villagers.
01:56After spending one year going about to and fro everywhere,
02:02wherever my inner calling took me,
02:05now at this point in time,
02:07since it's been a year,
02:09you get a little practical also which you should.
02:13I need to now get back in life in the so-called winning mood and whatever.
02:18Things that you tell yourself to up the game and be out there.
02:22Now, I am readying myself to again transition into not the concrete jungle person.
02:29Because it will be very difficult to go into that life.
02:32Because I will be able to choose the roles which actually demonstrate who I am authentically as a person.
02:40So, for that reason, I have completely in my head bid adieu to that.
02:47But I have a question, what is this seesaw?
02:52What is this seesaw?
02:54Because why do I seek solitude and companionship all the same?
03:01Actually, it is not a seesaw.
03:09It is just one thing that you seek and we all seek.
03:19It is just that we seek that one thing through these two diametrically opposite ways.
03:34Sometimes we lean towards one way.
03:39Sometimes we lean towards the other.
03:45So, it appears like a seesaw.
03:50But irrespective of the side we lean towards, we are trying for the one same common thing.
04:04When we crave for company, it is something that we want through that company.
04:16One doesn't want to be with another person or at a particular place for no reason at all.
04:26There is always a reason.
04:30And that's why we prefer to be with certain people and we reject certain people.
04:37We like certain places, certain books, certain situations more than others.
04:48Because no person, no thing, no object is an end in itself.
04:56It's a means towards something much more important.
05:04It's just that we do not know what that important thing is.
05:11Though the absence of that important thing in our lives makes itself felt.
05:19It's because it makes itself felt that we seek company.
05:26So, ours is a strange situation.
05:29We want something and we want something that's terribly important.
05:33That's so vitally important that if we do not have it, we just can't even breathe.
05:43Every breath becomes an exercise in angst.
05:48And at the same time, we do not know what that important thing is.
05:53We want it without knowing what it is.
05:58We experience its absence.
06:03But even an experience of that absence is no clear indicator of what that thing affirmatively is.
06:14Its absence can be experienced.
06:19Its presence is beyond experience.
06:25But that's something we do not know.
06:27So, we seek its presence through experience.
06:30What kind of experience?
06:32Somebody sitting next to me.
06:34I'm visiting places.
06:35I'm switching jobs.
06:37I'm reading something special.
06:39I'm visiting an esoteric place.
06:42That kind of an experience.
06:45So, we are trying to counter an experience of absence through an experience of abundance.
06:53I have much and I hope that this abundance will fill up the absence within me.
07:00It fails obviously and when it fails, then we seek solitude.
07:05So, the seesaw continues.
07:08We rush towards company without knowing exactly what we need company for.
07:17So, we get into, if not wrong, then suboptimal kind of company.
07:28And when we realize that it's not working out, then we break away and we rush towards
07:37either our study and we lock ourselves inside it or we rush to a mountaintop or to a jungle
07:50or to a lonely beach and it doesn't work out even that way because even the beach is an object
07:59just as a person is an object.
08:03So, we run away from the person, the object, to the beach or the jungle or the book, the object
08:16and we get defeated both ways, both times.
08:20But we still keep nourishing hope and so the cycle continues.
08:33We never really break out from it.
08:37So, this constant pulling of my soul into different directions.
08:45Because we do not know what that one final real authentic direction is.
08:53So, we allow ourselves to be pulled into 40 different directions.
09:03And there are contradictions happening at the same time.
09:06So, also just, you know, very rightly said by you.
09:12So, you know, there's this thing where they said, you always say that listen to the source, right?
09:17Where is this coming from?
09:18All your decisions, listen to the source.
09:20Where is it coming from?
09:21What is the source?
09:23So, there are times because mind obviously is a devilish place.
09:30So, how can you tell like, you know, a divine will as you say, how can you tell, you know,
09:38if it is my will or a divine will?
09:41How can you differentiate?
09:43Because there are times when I'm like…
09:46There is nothing really called a divine will.
09:49Or say hard source.
09:50How do I differentiate?
09:51Like, if this is just the voices in my head or is this actually coming from the source?
09:57You have to try your best.
09:59There is no formula really.
10:02You have to rely upon your sense, your intellect as well as your past experience.
10:08You know, there is something that you want to do.
10:11And there is hardly any newness in things that you want to do.
10:15We only try new variants, new versions of stuff we have already gone through.
10:25So, make sense to pause and ponder.
10:29Have I not already tried this before?
10:33Is this the first time I'm attempting this?
10:36And usually, and if you are sharp enough and honest enough, the answer will be no,
10:44it's not at all an authentic attempt.
10:49It's not a green field venture.
10:52I've done this earlier in another way, another form, in another name, another situation.
10:58And I know what this pans out into.
11:01And still, I'm allowing some kind of an unwise hope to survive only to suffer once again
11:12in much the same way I did at an earlier time.
11:17So, that's one thing.
11:18You know, the Upanishads at one point very poignantly declare,
11:24just remember the deed, remember the deed, remember the deed.
11:30Because you are not doing anything for the first time.
11:34Remember the deed and remember the doer.
11:37If you can clearly see that being who you are, you really cannot change what you do.
11:45You'll also see that the entire life has been a continuation of one single deed.
11:55We live such monotonous lives that even in our actions, there is hardly any diversity.
12:03Irrespective of what we are doing, I might be sipping tea, I might be purchasing clothes,
12:12I might be driving a car, might be delivering a lecture, might be sitting silent.
12:19I'm essentially doing just one and same thing.
12:24So, if you can be insightful enough to see that one single action,
12:30from one single acting tendency is continuously playing out,
12:38then there will be no speculation left regarding the result.
12:47And that's a great thing to see because we are expecting a new result this time.
12:57The last attempt failed and this time I want a new result.
13:01If I'm able to see that what I'm doing this time again is much the same as what I did the last time,
13:08then there is no ambiguity left about the result.
13:13The result now is an open secret.
13:18If the last attempt failed, this one is doubly certain to fail.
13:27So, that will take away false hope and that's a great reward.
13:33Because if we are digging at the wrong places,
13:38there is obviously going to be no reward to quench our thirst.
13:48That's one thing, remember whether this thing.
13:51Then again, I said use intellect to go beyond words.
13:57Words are such a deception to others and to ourselves.
14:02We tell ourselves this is what I want to do.
14:05And the wording is just camouflage.
14:10The fact is that all human beings are driven by certain very basic tendencies.
14:18Fear, greed, jealousy, lust, anger.
14:32Even these four, five or six tendencies can be reduced to just one.
14:41The tendency to falsely exist.
14:45The tendency to believe that something that does not exist, exists.
14:59That's what the ego is.
15:00A self-created existence, which really is not, but you have raised a phantom,
15:13you have raised a mirage and you are living in it as if it is real.
15:18But that's a bit too abstract probably.
15:22So, we cannot catch that.
15:25That just because we want to have a mental existence,
15:28therefore we are doing this and doing that and therefore the results will not be good for us.
15:34So, it's probably easier to go beneath the veneer of words and catch these four, five tendencies.
15:48If I'm doing something, is it motivated by greed?
15:53Is there fear in it?
15:55What am I holding on to?
15:58What am I clutching?
16:01Am I afraid of?
16:04If you can see that, then it will be far easier to be discreet with your thoughts, actions, decisions.
16:17The dictionary is so full of words.
16:21The fact is all those words, if the context is known, can be reduced to these four, five things.
16:38Words are not just words.
16:41Firstly, there are so many words.
16:43Secondly, the words carry value associations.
16:47For example, if you say ambition, it is something positive, it's a positive thing.
16:55Whereas if you decode it, scratch the word and then dig deep into what it really is, you come to greed.
17:06And now you know what you are doing, what the source of your action is and once you have put your finger on that,
17:13you know what it's going to result into because you have done that before.
17:19Each one of us has done that before.
17:21So, why entertain oneself?
17:24Why say, well, stuff might be different this time, let's give it a chance.
17:31What's the point?
17:33It's as certain as the law of God, it's not going to change.
17:44The result of greed cannot be good for the greedy one.
17:50So, is there like a parameter or maybe a yardstick?
17:57How do you quantify, say, your progress in the worldly arena versus say a spiritual evolution probably that you might have achieved?
18:12How do you quantify?
18:14Like what is spirituality for a common man?
18:17The world exists for the sake of your spiritual progress.
18:21These are not two different axis.
18:28You cannot take them as mutually independent of each other.
18:35If you say there is someone who has progressed a lot on the worldly plane but has not progressed at all on the spiritual plane,
18:47then it's not as if the fellow has done well 50% of the times and has failed 50% of the times.
19:00No, it's not that way.
19:02There is just one goal for which we exist, for which we exist and our entire world exists.
19:11The goal is contentment.
19:16We are born dissatisfied, frustrated, craving, groping, ignorant.
19:25That's our situation and our journey through life gives us an opportunity to get out of the mess,
19:36rather the hell we were born into.
19:41So, that's the means.
19:45You have a cricket bat to score runs and if your bat doesn't help you score runs, what do you have it for?
19:58It might be a spectacular bat, shining surface, greatly balanced, coming from the best brand, well-oiled and everything else that goes with great bats.
20:17But if it doesn't score runs, it means nothing.
20:21Similarly, the only way to ascertain whether you have a great life or whether your progress through the world makes any sense or has any value is to ask,
20:38are my actions in the world, are my movements through the world making me inwardly more mature?
20:50If not, then whatever you are doing makes zero sense, which also tells you that there can be no formula,
21:00formula with respect to how you are performing in the world.
21:05The only question ever to be asked is my job, my family, my relationships, my knowledge,
21:13whatever I have gained in the world, whatever I have been doing since long, is all that contributing inwardly to me?
21:24If it's contributing inwardly, all good, if it's not contributing inwardly, no more questions need to be asked.
21:33We cannot say I have fame, I have money, but I do not have satisfaction.
21:41The common grouse that we hear, it is foolish.
21:49The fellow is saying I have this, but I do not have this.
21:53If you do not have that last one final thing, you do not have anything.
21:58So, do not say you have fame and you have money.
22:00If you have fame and money, but not the real thing, then your fame and money are just burdens upon you.
22:08Not only have they not helped you reach the right place inside you,
22:14also you are continuously paying the price for having them because they do not come easy or cheap.
22:22You work a lot to have them and then you have to remain attentive to secure them.
22:30Otherwise, they just evaporate.
22:34So, that's the only thing and it's an absolute.
22:40One cannot have diversity of opinions or fluctuating viewpoints in this regard.
22:51That we exist as dissatisfied entities is a fact.
22:58It is not somebody's dream.
23:02There is no subjectivity in it.
23:05It's not one person's opinion.
23:09It is a universal fact applicable to all human beings ever born.
23:15And if it's a universal fact, it's an absolute.
23:20Then the purpose of life too is an absolute.
23:24If all of us exist in an inwardly suffering way,
23:34then the purpose of existence has to be the alleviation of this inner suffering.
23:42So, act in a way that takes the inner angst away.
23:54And that has to be the only goal, only parameter,
24:01the only criteria when it comes to making decisions large and small.
24:07There was also another question of, you know, which basically I grouped them together,
24:14that worldly progress versus spiritual progress.
24:18So, how do you know?
24:19You just said that, you know, if you are maturing inwardly
24:25and the source from where you're taking decisions are authentic and in line with who you are at your core,
24:31then probably you're going on the right direction, perhaps.
24:36So, but, you know, what about spiritual progress?
24:40Like, is it the same thing?
24:42It is exactly the same thing.
24:44What else is spiritual progress?
24:46This is what it means.
24:48Because I spoke to a few of my people today and I was telling them just an hour back
24:55that I'm going to be having a conversation with Acharya ji.
24:59So, I asked them if you have any questions, so do tell me.
25:02So, mostly this question trumped all other questions.
25:06Everybody was like, I'm just a common man.
25:08You know, what is spirituality in my life?
25:11You know, how do I balance?
25:13So, it is…
25:14Everybody is a common man.
25:16Nobody is uncommon here.
25:18We all have a common situation.
25:20Exactly.
25:22And that common situation is called the human condition of existence.
25:27Our common condition is of existence.
25:32Human suffering, yeah.
25:34Existence itself.
25:36You exist, I exist, he exists, she exists.
25:39That's what is common amongst all of us.
25:41We exist and because we exist, the way we exist, we suffer.
25:48Our very existence is suffering and that's the common thread that runs through the entire human population.
25:58So, we all are common.
26:01So, if someone says, what is spirituality for a common man?
26:04Exactly what it is for a so-called uncommon man.
26:07Which is, you are not alright, nobody is alright and we need to set ourselves right.
26:18Why?
26:20Is it a moral imperative?
26:22No.
26:24It's just that if you are not alright, what else can you want?
26:27What else can you want?
26:29I exist as a person who is not alright.
26:32So, what else am I supposed to do?
26:33What else am I supposed to do?
26:35And even if you tell me that I am supposed to do something else.
26:38I am supposed to entertain myself, I am supposed to earn money, I am supposed to do this, that, fly around.
26:42How will that help me?
26:44And can I even ever accept that?
26:47Maybe temporarily.
26:49I will say, fine, you told me that, you know, just forget my suffering.
26:54I can go and have a game of chess.
26:58Fine, I will go and do that.
27:00How long can I keep playing chess?
27:02The game will be over sooner than later.
27:05I will be back to myself and I won't like it.
27:08So, it's an existential imperative to be spiritual.
27:14One cannot avoid it.
27:16In fact, even those who avoid it are just being spiritual in their own absurd ways.
27:26There is nobody who cannot be spiritual and the proof of that is everybody wants to be happy.
27:32If everybody wants to be happy, what does that tell about the human condition?
27:38That we aspire to be in a better condition.
27:42Yes, and what does that tell about our current condition?
27:45That we are in pathetic condition.
27:47Yes, and that's what is common between all of us.
27:50We all are in a pathetic condition.
27:53That would probably rankle some of us when we say our condition is pathetic.
27:57We want to believe we are doing well, but that's not the fact.
28:04We are not doing well.
28:06Nobody is doing well.
28:08The proof is that we all aspire happiness.
28:11We strive for this and that in thousand ways and that's why desire exists at all.
28:20All desire is for happiness.
28:22Happiness in different forms, shapes, means.
28:27So, set the goal right.
28:33Realize who you are and work for your own welfare.
28:40That's spirituality.
28:42You are a suffering being and you have to work in a way
28:47that I had said alleviates.
28:55What does alleviation mean?
28:57Make it higher.
28:59I did not say reduce.
29:02I did not even say ameliorate.
29:08I said alleviate, sublimate.
29:12Take your suffering to a higher level.
29:15That's spirituality.
29:20People who are not spiritual, they too want to reduce their suffering.
29:26But how?
29:28Not by taking their suffering to a higher level, but by running circles around their suffering.
29:37So, there is no alleviation of suffering there.
29:43What do we find there?
29:45We find transmutation of suffering.
29:48How?
29:50I was suffering at the hands of my spouse.
29:54So, I ran away to commit myself more to my professional life and now I am suffering more at the hands of my boss.
30:03Suffering has neither been alleviated nor been reduced.
30:09It has just been transmuted or transfigured.
30:15One kind of suffering is turned into another kind to befool the sufferer,
30:25so that the sufferer can keep believing that he is doing well, he is succeeding, he is reaching somewhere.
30:33He is not reaching anywhere.
30:35So, once you accept that there is this condition,
30:47we exist, we are small, there is the mind and the mind is forever desirous
30:54and there is some abstract thing that the mind wants
31:02and because the mind desperately wants it, therefore, it is very very important,
31:08solely by virtue of the fact that you always want it,
31:11there is something that you always want, it becomes important, it is important.
31:20And you realize that you probably cannot just wish away this fact.
31:25Then you start taking decisions of a different nature.
31:38Then you realize that happiness is a stupid goal.
31:43So, your actions then do not target happiness.
31:49They target a certain leviation, a certain height, a grandeur.
32:03You do not just run around on that same old lowly plane to suffer from one place to the other.
32:13You realize that the plane itself is junk and you declare that you don't want to exist there.
32:29If suffer I must, why should I not suffer in something worthwhile?
32:34Why should I suffer in that same old pursuit of happiness?
32:51I would rather suffer for something more worthwhile.
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