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00:00We're joined by Odyssey NFL insider Jason LaConfore right here on the River Islands
00:06guest line.
00:07He's host of the Odyssey original podcast, In the Huddle.
00:10Jason's one of our favorites.
00:11Make sure you check out In the Huddle on the Odyssey app or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15Good evening, Jason.
00:16How are you?
00:17What's going on, gentlemen?
00:18Quite a bit, actually.
00:19And we're having fun with a little check-in on the Niners in the offseason.
00:26And actually, the league as a whole.
00:27Let me ask you this, because I do think it's of interest to 49er fans, Miles Garrett and
00:32Max Crosby.
00:33What do you think is going to happen with those two guys?
00:36I think Miles Garrett's absolutely going to be traded.
00:41And I believe the Philadelphia Eagles are as well positioned as anybody to land them
00:46and as motivated as anybody to land them.
00:48And multiple general managers I've talked to about this and wrote about in the Washington
00:54Post believe that Howie Roseman has the wherewithal to make this happen.
00:59And you might trade out a Josh Swett and bring in a Miles Garrett.
01:05Maybe they move some of the Bryce Health, move that contract, do some different things.
01:10But Cap is always subservient to Cash.
01:15Cash is king.
01:16And that's an owner who's not worried about where the cash goes as long as it goes towards
01:22winning.
01:23And they've got a chance to build their own little sort of mini dynasty there.
01:28And they are as committed to being as potent up front, both sides of the line of scrimmage
01:36as anybody.
01:38And there's also a pretty strong relationship between Andrew Barry, who used to work for
01:41Howie Roseman.
01:42And hey, this is how the league works.
01:45Everybody's probably going to be blown up in Cleveland in the next six to nine months.
01:48And, you know, Andrew Barry going back to work for Howie Roseman wouldn't be the worst
01:52thing in the world either.
01:53So I think they would want to trade him out of the conference, you know, ideally.
01:58And I think they'll get Khalil Mack type value for him.
02:01Max Crosby, I, you know, I, I don't know.
02:05I mean, there's a lot of, um, a lot of weird dynamics there.
02:10I mean, it's a rebuilding team that's got Tom Brady now involved, who is used to winning
02:14A, S, F, and D. And you got a 73 year old coach he just hired.
02:20So I don't know that, you know, trading your best player when you've already got a talent
02:26imbalance and you're in a division with Sean Payton, who went to the playoffs last year
02:30with a rookie and Harbaugh who went to the playoffs and after being gone for a decade
02:35and Andy Reid who goes to the championship game every year.
02:38I don't know that it makes sense to be trading key pieces with a 73 year old head coach.
02:44I also don't know that it makes sense not to be gutting it to the studs and starting
02:49over because this iteration didn't work, but you know, it's a Mark Davis production.
02:54Anything's possible.
02:56Max Crosby has sounded like he wants to be there and wants to be a part of a winner there.
03:01Um, so I don't know.
03:04It sure is appetizing out here, Jason, because we saw what the Eagles did in the super bowl
03:09and we all remember the Niners when they had a ferocious defensive front.
03:13When you look at San Francisco and where they sit now coming off of six and 11, especially
03:18with that defense, how active should they be for those two players and also in the draft
03:23to try to shore up this defensive line?
03:26Well, I think they absolutely have to, um, they've got to make improvements there one
03:32way or the other.
03:33I mean, you, you can fire your defensive coordinator every year if you want, and God knows they
03:36love to do that, but you know, that's, that's, that's cosmetic.
03:40I mean, that's, that's cover your ass BS.
03:42I mean, they've, they've, they had guys there who can coach.
03:46They got rid of a guy who coaches backside off, including in the super bowl.
03:50Um, and it made him walk the plank.
03:52So yeah, I mean, at some point, uh, they've got to be more consistent.
03:57They've got to be able to get more of a pass rush.
04:01Um, and the offensive line is obviously sort of been staccato as well.
04:06You know, what, what, what does Trent Williams still have left in the tank?
04:10Um, what is that group going to look like short and longterm upfront?
04:15So yeah, I think they have a lot of work to do in both those regards.
04:20Jason lock and four with us here on Willard and dibs.
04:22I Jason, I, I feel like the internet really wants there to be a fight between the 49ers
04:28and Brock Purdy, but the Niners and Brock Purdy are not interested in that at all.
04:32What, what's your prediction on how this plays out?
04:36I suspect they just pay him at this point.
04:39Um, I think they might look back on this opportunity if they don't explore it to
04:44see what you might be able to get for him.
04:47Um, you know what, when, when you start paying a guy 62, 63, I don't know what
04:53the number is, but if I'm him, I, I mean, I want Dak Prescott money.
04:56I mean, why don't I want Dak Prescott money?
04:58Um, the expectations go up exponentially and a lot of the dynamics change and not
05:04about having all these studs around you.
05:06It's about what you can do for these studs.
05:08I mean, ask Joe burrow right now, he's, he's been politic and forever.
05:11And I think he's not going to be pleased with the outcome there
05:14with that roster looks like.
05:16So I suspect they just pay him.
05:18Um, how, how stuck in will he be?
05:21Um, what's his magic number?
05:23Will he demand more than Prescott?
05:25Again, I, I think he has a right to his younger with more upside.
05:30And I mean, he's done as much in the playoffs, more than Dak.
05:33Um, so yeah, I, I suspect they pay him what that contract looks like.
05:39The devil in details, how the money spread up, spread out.
05:42Um, they've got certain ways of doing business, right.
05:45That they've been very sort of, um, vehement about, and you know, how far
05:50they're guaranteed money goes and this and that, or they haven't had to do a
05:54top of the market deal for a quarterback quite right.
05:57I mean, I guess Jimmy G, right.
05:58And that was a while back and a lot's changed since then.
06:02And this kid doesn't have some of the health issues that he had.
06:05So I'll be fascinated to see how it develops.
06:08I think with the lack of quarterback options out there, um, if they were to
06:14engage, I think, you know, they could probably do really well dealing him.
06:18But I, I'd be pretty surprised if they do that at this point.
06:21Yeah, it's tough when you have a quarterback that's been
06:23successful in your system.
06:24And if you do trade him, I mean, what do you do?
06:27Do you go out and get a stop gap or do you try to hope to get
06:30lucky in a week QB draft?
06:32I wonder Jason, what you think about Brock Purdy as a player and what you
06:37hear being on the East coast about Brock Purdy, because we're out here in the
06:41Niner bubble and, you know, even among the families here, the opinions are split.
06:46A lot of evaluators I've talked to about him over the years.
06:50And it's easy for them to say, cause they're not in this situation where they
06:53had, you know, like to your point, if it's not him, then whom, but I've had a lot
06:57of people tell, you know, tell me that they don't think they would not give him
07:0160 points.
07:02They would not pay him like the best quarterback in the world, just
07:05because his timing is great.
07:06And that gets a lot of guys paid.
07:07Joe Flacco was the highest paid quarterback in the history of this
07:10league for a moment in time.
07:12Um, that's sort of how it goes, but at some point, um, people are going to be
07:18sick of being burned by that.
07:19And I'm not saying that he's going to burn them.
07:22I would have a lot of Paul's based on evaluators.
07:24I trust whoever repeatedly told me how Shanahan could find somebody else to do
07:29pretty close to what he's doing for a hell of a lot less than what you're going to
07:32have to pay him.
07:33Um, if you go down this road with him, Jason, yeah, yeah, I mean, I, I, I, I
07:41get it.
07:41It's, it's tricky.
07:42Um, but isn't that sort of supposed to be the genius or call Shanahan that he
07:47found Brock Purdy and, you know, they took their shot with Trey Lance and they
07:50went pretty far with Jimmy G and you can rent cousins for not, I mean, no, don't
07:56pay, don't, don't pay the freight on cousins if you're looking for a stop gap.
08:00Um, and we know the relationship those two have, but I don't know.
08:07I would have a lot of Paul's frankly doing it.
08:10Well, what if I asked it to you this way, Jason?
08:13Cause I know we get, well, like you're kind of referring to the idea of him being
08:16the highest paid quarterback in the game and, and, and maybe he will be, and maybe
08:21he won't be in the DAC number, but look at the bucket of quarterbacks that are all
08:26north of 50, you know, there's there, there's two, uh, and, and there's,
08:31there's Jared golf and, and right.
08:34These now, now these are six,
08:38let's take 60 off the table.
08:40How is he taking less than 55?
08:43Yeah.
08:43He can't like, don't, don't you think based on those numbers that he belongs?
08:50I think he has to, he can't take less than that.
08:52And I think they'd be naive to think he'd take less than that.
08:55But that's that cohort of players is exactly why I'd be scared the hell out of
08:59doing this because how many of those people already have sticker shock and
09:04buyer's remorse?
09:07Yeah, a lot of them.
09:08And yet you look at the price of doing business and the price of the market,
09:12it's kind of what you have to do.
09:14And I guess ideally you would just say, all right, Brock, uh, would you mind
09:18playing out your, your fourth year at 1.1 million, which of course he would never
09:23do.
09:25I mean, he shouldn't at this point with, with the body of work he's put up, um,
09:30you know, now look, then you start getting to how long you sit out and you got to
09:33come back by whatever week 12 to still get the accrued season.
09:35And like, I, I don't, the other thing with them is after last year where, you
09:41know, a lot of us were paying close attention to that, that, that locker room
09:44is off.
09:45Those vibes are off that ain't, that ain't a, that ain't a team that's going back
09:48to the Superbowl.
09:49It's going to take a major step back.
09:51And a lot of it was sort of self-inflicted.
09:53Um, I also don't know that, you know, continuing to go to war with everybody,
09:57you know, which, you know, prods always up for a contractual fight, but like, I
10:01don't know, you know what I mean?
10:02At what point do, do, do they kind of need to have a kinder, gentler
10:06negotiation?
10:07And if not your quarterback, then with who, but I'm right there with you.
10:10It's, it is tricky as hell.
10:12Um, and if the rest of the roster is taking a step back in some regards, you
10:16know, is, is he going to justify that whatever, 57, 58, whatever the hell it
10:21is, um, with maybe, you know, McCaffrey on the back nine and one of the receivers
10:26gone and.
10:28You know, the tight end is not going to be this durable forever.
10:30When they hit the wall, they'd go fast.
10:32Just ask Kelsey.
10:34So I don't know.
10:35You know, that's, that's, that's why they make the big bucks.
10:37Yeah.
10:38Well, and, and that's a really interesting comment.
10:40Um, Parag's always up for a contractual fight.
10:43So, um, after what definitely felt like taking an L against Nick's Nick Bosa.
10:50And I think you could argue somewhat of an L against Brandon.
10:54I, you certainly with the way it dragged the team through, through the off season.
10:59Um, I wonder if you, you know, so sure.
11:02Okay.
11:03Maybe don't do that with Brock, but what's the bigger question there, Jason, do have
11:07we reached a time in the NFL where the 49ers need to kind of tweak the way they're
11:12doing business with top players?
11:15Well, it had an effect last year.
11:17There's, there's no, there's no two ways about it.
11:19Um, yeah.
11:22I mean, I think that they're obviously right at a bit of a fork in the road.
11:26I mean, there was sort of this pretty extended, but sort of Jimmy G window,
11:31right.
11:31As Jimmy G's body started to fail him and he couldn't hold up for half a season, let
11:35alone a full season anymore.
11:36And it could just be that they maximize that now pretty young enough that it
11:41makes sense to do this deal.
11:42But again, he better be the same guy with a lesser roster.
11:46You know what I mean?
11:46Like he, he better, you know, with, with, with the kid they drafted last year and
11:50obviously they're going to have to be keeping cheap draft and skill position
11:53guys and, you know, the tried and true outside zone run scheme and all that.
11:58You know, the, the defense can both just stay on the field.
12:01Do you point about that contract?
12:03I mean, there, there's a lot of question marks there.
12:05Um, and they did seem like a lot of guys sort of advanced in age, you know, all
12:11sort of at once, like, like those extra playoff games and the wear and tear of
12:15the longer seasons and the super bowl hangover real or imagined or mental, or
12:20maybe it's mostly mental, not physical, whatever it is, they were poster boys for
12:24it.
12:24So that's, that's, that's hard to regroup and it's gotta be black parties team.
12:29You start paying him like that.
12:31You know, he's the face of the franchise.
12:33He's the vocal leader.
12:34He's, he's gotta be their best guy every Sunday, you know, ask Lamar Jackson.
12:39So, you know, that's, that's kind of the level you start getting kicked apart at
12:44and it hasn't worked out for a lot of these guys, you know, a lot of them, when
12:49the expectations you get that high and the paychecks get that big, they start
12:52coming up small.
12:54Yeah.
12:54And like you said, when you don't have the support around you, it becomes even
12:58more highlighted when you're making that big money.
13:01You mentioned before about cash is King and it's kind of what Jed York has done
13:06paying out a lot of these bonuses and restructures.
13:09Is it something that eventually comes home to roost?
13:12I'm asking it about Demos Samuel because he's do a big bonus and it looks like
13:17they don't want to pay it.
13:18So now he wants to be traded.
13:20Yes.
13:21Yeah.
13:21Look, there's no way that those two guys are back next year.
13:24Um, I mean, nothing's forever and I guess it's, it's sort of, you know, do you go
13:31one extension too far?
13:32Would you rather cut a guy than go one extension too far?
13:34I mean, look at the saints right now, right?
13:36I mean, they fought too hard to keep an aging core together.
13:39And now like people who want cam, cam Hayward are like, I don't even know how
13:43the hell we're going to get them.
13:45Um, I'm not, I'm sorry.
13:46Cam Jordan are like, I don't know how the hell we're going to get them because like
13:50extracting him out of that contract is, is damn near impossible.
13:53Um, you know, they're going to have to do whatever they can to get car out of
13:57there and it's going to, you know, and probably play with Spencer Rattler for a
14:00year just because the cap's going to be so jacked out.
14:02What's the difference?
14:03So you don't want to hit critical mass like that.
14:05Um, and so I think, again, that's when you sort of have to really weigh things
14:10and, and when it is time to start having the pendulum swing another way.
14:13And it's, it's going to there.
14:15I mean, if not entirely this off season and some of it, we'll start with the wide
14:18receiver room and some other places.
14:20Um, certainly in the next year, I think you're looking at, you know, maybe
14:25McCaffrey not there anymore.
14:26Maybe Kittle not there anymore.
14:28Uh, that's just, you know, that's football mortality.
14:31I mean, especially at those positions where you're just constantly in high
14:34traffic as a running back and as a tight end.
14:37Jason Locke and four are with us.
14:39Odyssey NFL insider here on Willard and dibs.
14:42Hey, Jason, broader question.
14:44We were looking at a graphic that I thought was really, really interesting.
14:48Check out the top five teams in fourth down conversion rate this year.
14:53This runs all the way up to the Superbowl, uh, in order it goes Washington,
14:58Buffalo, Philadelphia, Kansas city, Detroit, Detroit.
15:03Like what do you notice?
15:04Like these may be off.
15:06These are certainly five of the top six or seven teams in the game.
15:10Have we reached a time where, where teams are really going to take a new
15:16approach to fourth down and then how would you kind of juxtapose that with a
15:21conservative coach like Kyle Shanahan?
15:24Well, I think that's where it's at.
15:26I mean, everything is geared towards offense, the rules.
15:29I mean, every, I mean, it's, they could not have done much more to
15:34incentivize scoring if they try.
15:36That's the style of football.
15:38The league wants, they think that helps ratings.
15:39They're in the business of entertaining people and making as
15:42much money as humanly possible.
15:44And they think 45 40 is better than 21 20.
15:49Um, so why?
15:51Yeah.
15:51I mean, if you have that sort of personnel and that's how you've built
15:54your team and you feel like you're, you've got the playbook and you've got.
15:58Um, the personnel, the max, then yeah, fourth down is in play, you know, most
16:03of the field outside of, you know, your own red zone or your own high red zone.
16:07Everything else is sort of go for it.
16:09Territory, you know, anything, you know, what fourth and four or less for some
16:14teams, fourth and six or less at certain points of the field, um, kicking was
16:19kind of all over the place this year.
16:21Right.
16:21And so I think if, if that's going to sort of remain the case and some of
16:25these 42, 43 year old kickers start getting phased out and people can't find
16:28younger people to replace them, who they trust from distance and you're paying
16:32quarterbacks all these money and even mediocre quarterbacks are making $50
16:35million, then, you know, go out there and try to try to earn it.
16:39Um, a lot of these teams are imbalanced too.
16:41I mean, those, those teams you mentioned aren't, um, well, Detroit kind of was
16:46when the defense got decimated by injuries, but, um, if you don't feel like
16:50you're as good on defense, then let's just keep the ball.
16:52Let's let's keep the ball.
16:53Let's, let's turn it into seven.
16:56Hopefully we'll settle for three and keep their defense on
17:00the field and wear them out.
17:01I mean, yeah, I don't, I don't think this is going away anytime soon.
17:06Um, and who do these owners keep hiring?
17:09Right.
17:09They keep hiring offensive head coaches by and large, who, how do you get
17:13hired and how do you get involved?
17:14Oh, look what he did on fourth down.
17:16Look what he did on fourth down.
17:17Oh yeah.
17:18I think it's kind of, you know, a self-fulfilling thing.
17:22Do you have to be that way to win?
17:24I don't know if you have to, depending on how you're built, but could a team
17:28let San Francisco with their talent, do it more than they do probably.
17:33All right, Jason, that's some straight shooting stuff, man.
17:36Really appreciate it.
17:37Thank you so much for coming on tonight.
17:39Always my pleasure.
17:40Have a good evening.
17:40Okay.
17:41You too.
17:41There he goes.
17:41That was odyssey NFL insider, Jason Luckin for a host of the odyssey
17:45original podcast in the huddle.
17:46Make sure you check out in the huddle on the odyssey app or wherever you get your
17:50podcast.