The Packers are trying to get the NFL to ban the tush push once and for all, should it finally happen?
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00:00Well, speaking of punishments, should we be considering punishing the Tush Push?
00:06The Green Bay Packers certainly think so.
00:09They are the team that has suggested and pitched now a rule where the Tush Push gets banned.
00:16This was talked about and then kind of went away and then toward the end of the season.
00:21Here's what I've noticed, though.
00:22When was it a big deal previously, the Tush Push?
00:26The last time the Eagles went to the Super Bowl.
00:28Two years ago when the Eagles went to the Super Bowl and almost won it.
00:31Last year, the Eagles didn't go to the Super Bowl.
00:34Wasn't really a storyline in the offseason, if you remember.
00:36Interesting.
00:37Now they just went to the Super Bowl again, and this time they won it.
00:39They did the Tush Push with everybody watching in the playoffs, the NFC title game multiple
00:43times over.
00:44That was when Frankie Lou Vu was doing his, you know, flyover like he was a jet before
00:49the game.
00:50And then they did it in the Super Bowl as well.
00:53It's a problem again.
00:55The Packers have put forth a proposal to ban the Tush Push, and initially it was just this
01:03anonymous team, well, somebody figured out it was the Packers, and then Mark Murphy,
01:08their president, put out this statement on why he wants the play banned.
01:13He said, quote, I'm not a fan of this play.
01:16There is no skill involved, and it is almost an automatic first down on plays of a yard
01:22or less.
01:23The series of plays with the commanders jumping off sides in the NFC championship game to
01:29try to stop the play was ridiculous.
01:32The referee even threatened to give the Eagles an automatic touchdown if the commanders did
01:38not stop it.
01:39I would like to see the league prohibit pushing or aiding the runner quarterback on this play.
01:45There used to be a rule prohibiting this, but it is no longer enforced because I believe
01:50it was thought to be too hard for the officials to see.
01:53The play is bad for the game, and we should go back to prohibiting the push of the runner.
01:59This would bring back the traditional quarterback sneak that worked pretty well for Bart Starr
02:03and the Packers in the Ice Bowl.
02:05So that is the statement from the Green Bay Packers on the Tush Push.
02:12Two prongs here.
02:14The second part, we'll get to in a second, I think is 100% correct.
02:18The first part I disagree with.
02:20When he says there is no skill involved, then it's almost an automatic first down.
02:23Well, the automatic first down part's true, but no skill involved is wrong.
02:26So that's actually my first take as well.
02:28Yeah, 31 teams don't do it because one team has mastered it and nobody else has.
02:32A lot of teams do it.
02:34To your point, they don't do it as well.
02:36I will say the Buffalo Bills are almost as good at it with Josh Allen's size.
02:40Yeah, with that dinosaur back there pushing people around, sure.
02:45But we will wholeheartedly, I think, come together on this and agree.
02:49This is a skill play.
02:51Jalen Hurts is amazing at running it.
02:53And I think part of it is this dude squats like 500 pounds.
02:57And their line has been coached up on.
03:00They spend time on it.
03:01They get lower.
03:02They get off the snap faster and go helmet straight to the ground.
03:05I don't really know the specifics of how they pull it off, but they are better at it than
03:10everyone else.
03:11Because originally, that was my argument.
03:12No skill.
03:13Anyone could do this.
03:14And then I saw everyone try it and get stopped about half the time.
03:17And I thought, well, really, this isn't as big a problem as we think.
03:20It's just that the Eagles are unbelievable at it.
03:22And that's not a reason to stop it.
03:23Right.
03:24So that's my point.
03:25That's not the reason to stop it.
03:26So if I'm Mark Murphy, I holster that one, the no skill involved thing, and I replace
03:30it with something else.
03:32Enormous injury risk.
03:34That play is chaotic.
03:37This is not a football play.
03:39The rule that he references where you can't aid a runner, we just threw up our hands and
03:44went, it's too hard.
03:45So now you can.
03:46That needs to come back.
03:48Well, isn't it still illegal by the rule book to pull a runner forward?
03:52I don't think so at all.
03:53I think they did away with it.
03:54So I think we're talking about two different things.
03:57You're talking about to aid a runner by shoving them and knocking them forward.
04:01Right.
04:02I'm talking about to pull a runner over the goal line is still illegal.
04:05It gets referenced occasionally in games.
04:07You have to be right about that.
04:08Did that guy pull the guy forward?
04:10What you're talking about used to be a thing and isn't anymore, which is the linemen.
04:15You see this even just like not even at the goal line.
04:17Yeah.
04:18Just on a regular play.
04:19I'm running back.
04:20It stood up and he's turning his feet.
04:21Well, here comes 330 pound dudes just pushing everybody.
04:26And now you get an extra five yards at it.
04:27And a lot of times they don't even push.
04:29They just obliterate their teammate.
04:30They come flying in and just dive right at everybody.
04:35That needs to be done away with.
04:37If we're concerned with safety, we can fix the kickoff and do this strange new world
04:43of kickoff stuff.
04:44Well, we can't do that.
04:46So what rule then takes care of the push and the thing that you don't like?
04:50There's nothing.
04:51You do not aid a runner.
04:53So however you want to define that, someone smarter than me could write the legal term
04:56for it.
04:57That gray area is why they basically gave up.
04:59It's hard to determine aiding a runner or a pile.
05:02They couldn't.
05:03They just couldn't figure it out.
05:04So whatever.
05:05To me, this one, it's clear and obvious.
05:06A person goes behind Jalen Hurts and pushes him.
05:09They call it the push push because that's what he's pushing.
05:12Right?
05:13No.
05:14Here's the thing.
05:15If you think correctly, it's wildly effective.
05:17Ask Tom Brady.
05:18Not quite to that level of the push push, but damn near close, right?
05:22If you do it right.
05:23Now everybody wants to get together and have a pushing contest.
05:25You're being 11 bodies close.
05:27That's wrong.
05:28You spread people out and then you do it and you get first downs all the time or touchdowns.
05:32The quarterback sneak is a football play and it's wildly effective as effective or more
05:38so to do what it sets out to do than nearly anything else.
05:42If you go back and look at historical percentages and otherwise, and people can be really smart
05:46and figure stuff out, but they've taken advantage of an incredible skillset.
05:50So this is less to me about sour grapes, not being able to block it.
05:53I don't care about that.
05:54And that's what every stupid Eagles fan, every, you know, uh, the jackass from South Jersey
05:58is on.
05:59You don't like it.
06:00Stop them.
06:01No, no, no, no.
06:02This has nothing to do with not being able to stop it as far as I'm concerned.
06:05It's a safety issue where we're asking for something terrible to happen and be the rule
06:11that needs to come back is one it's related to safety, but also the aiding of a runner
06:17as a part of the play design to me needs to go away in the NFL.
06:22There's already everything tilted towards the office and I've got plenty of things that
06:24should be more tilted toward the offense.
06:26By the way, I've got plenty of rule changes that I would, I would implement, but to me,
06:29this is not a football play.
06:30It's a, it's something else that's sort of that's game in the system based on this incredible
06:35skillset of these guys.
06:36I think that the best argument against having the tush push legal in the NFL for people
06:43that want to get away with it or do away with it should be the health thing that you're
06:48going with because there are a lot of guys that get banged up in the, the pile gets picked
06:54up and everyone's getting up and then you got to go to the sideline and you're not feeling
06:58right and you're getting treatment.
06:59We saw Chris Jones in the Superbowl, if you remember getting his neck worked on right
07:05after a tush push.
07:07And in fact, if you go back and watch how he defended the tush push, did you ever see
07:11how he lined up specifically?
07:13He lined up sideways.
07:14Yeah.
07:15I don't mean like a little bit.
07:16I mean like literally his ribs and his, you know, like he's turned perpendicular, he's
07:23facing the side of the sideline with his butt toward the other sideline and basically like
07:29his rib cage, even with the football so that he could just drop down on the ground at the
07:34snap, I guess so that they couldn't get below him.
07:37And then he's just starts to pile up like right there, like he's laying on his stomach.
07:42Now the result of that was that he hurt his neck in some way and he was having to get
07:46some treatment and be worked out on the sideline.
07:49I do not have the percentages of success rate in front of me for this past year.
07:55Let me go back.
07:56Let's see.
07:57Data from the 2024 season is coming in.
07:58Okay.
07:59So quick Google search.
08:01I don't have it for this year.
08:02But in 2022, the tush push was 92.6% successful for the Eagles in 2023 last year.
08:13They did it a lot more.
08:14Do you know they ran 42 of those last year?
08:16I didn't know the numbers.
08:17This isn't this football season, but two football seasons ago, 42 tush pushes.
08:21My God, man.
08:22I mean, that's 20 more than I would have thought twice as many or so, but it was only 83%,
08:2883.3% successful.
08:29So they went from, and maybe that's part of the reason, not just that they got to the
08:33Super Bowls, but it was at 93% two years ago.
08:36It was down to 83% this year.
08:38Maybe it's back up around 90%.
08:40And so this feeling is like it's automatic.
08:43Do you think that the success rate should be a factor in whether or not it's done away
08:51with?
08:52No, not for me at all.
08:53And because I think that's most people's argument is it can't be stopped.
08:56Get rid of it.
08:57That's the, and that's the Philly fan argument is like, you're just jealous because you can't
09:02stop it.
09:03Right?
09:04It's the same, the same type of person that would yell, you don't like them celebrating
09:06then stop them from scoring or whatever.
09:08But here's the, here's the counter data, the quarterback sneak, the regular one, this is
09:13a Yale study.
09:14So I don't know what, what, what level of the measure I'm assuming the NFL is just under
09:1883% effective in its own right.
09:20Getting the, getting the first time, getting the touchdown, getting that one yard.
09:23So effectiveness to me is where people get caught up, right?
09:28To me, it's the principle, the principle of aiding a runner.
09:31I find just so anti what I think about when I think about football, like the guy that's
09:36got the ball, you block for him, you do the best you can, but once someone gets their
09:39hands on him, you talk about vulnerable receivers, who's more vulnerable than someone that's
09:45got their head down.
09:46That's trying to wrap up and tackle.
09:47And here comes a 300 pounder with momentum, spearing anything and everything that's in
09:52there.
09:53That's that's ribs.
09:54That's knees.
09:55That's head.
09:56That's neck.
09:58And I just believe we haven't had more problems.
09:59And that's just up with the Tush push.
10:00That's everywhere on the football.
10:01We call that the John Runyon around these parts.
10:03Yeah.
10:04So I actually totally agree with your point, but what you're describing there is not the
10:08Tush push as much as that like middle of the field play where the lineman is blowing everybody
10:12up in there.
10:13That's fair.
10:14And to me, they're cousins.
10:15And the reason I bring it up is if we get rid of aiding the runner, then we get rid
10:19of brother.
10:20You can get rid of both at once, but like to me, that thing you're referencing, which
10:24is 20 to 20 or wherever on the grass that should be done away with boom right now.
10:30I think the Tush push is actually way more debatable because I view what you're talking
10:34about for people that aren't connecting the dots like a tackles being made and the lineman
10:40comes flying into the screen.
10:41You've seen it a million times and just like blows up either his own back or the defender
10:46to try to get that extra yard or not run forward over the line coming from behind the line
10:50of scrimmage.
10:51They are trying to move forward.
10:52Yeah, that is a dangerous play.
10:53I definitely think there's a risk of injury there.
10:57Is there actual data that the Tush push is bad for health?
11:00I mean, I have not seen that.
11:03I know that a couple of times over, including the Chris Jones example that everybody uses
11:06here recently, guys will come over and look, it's a pile up of bodies.
11:10So when that happens, just I would think there's a better chance that you get stepped on, you
11:16get landed on and you come up banged up.
11:19But I don't have that data.
11:21I don't either.
11:22I mean, it's anecdotal.
11:24Before they changed the kickoff for years, they studied percentage of injury.
11:28And what they found was this is one of the most, if not at that original time that they
11:33did it, the most dangerous plays in our sport.
11:37So forget that just the common sense of I got a dude at full speed colliding with a
11:41guy who's just standing flat footed seems like it might be pretty dangerous in terms
11:46of collisions.
11:47They mixed that with the numbers and said the kickoff at this percentage is more dangerous
11:54than the rest of the place.
11:56I think you need that data to get rid of the Tush push.
11:58And I don't know if it exists.
11:59It doesn't.
12:00Yeah, because it's such a still of a tiny sample, but also everything else.
12:03Are you convinced it's a more dangerous play then?
12:06Yes.
12:07You think it's definitely more dangerous than a quarterback sneak?
12:10Yes.
12:11When you get somebody that's like being pushed from behind into the pileup, that's just intuitive
12:17to me that it's more dangerous.
12:18But the pileup, like a lot of the time, Jalen Hurts is an example of the guy being pushed.
12:22He's never gotten hurt on one of those plays.
12:24He hasn't.
12:25He has not yet.
12:26I mean, he's literally just body surfing.
12:27I mean, it's the least dangerous thing that he does probably during.
12:30Yeah.
12:31We'll disagree there.
12:32I mean, to me, when you're in control of your movements to a degree in that short sample,
12:36like think about how Tom Brady used to do it.
12:38There's that there's that one 1000.
12:40He looks kind of where am I going to dive forward, right with my awkward lanky frame
12:44and then he moves forward on the pile, however, it's going to go.
12:48If you're being shoved from behind, you're no longer in control right there.
12:52So let's say someone's Louisville or doing anything they can to stop this thing.
12:57You've now lost control of your own direction, like you can't steer anymore your body to
13:01angle or whatever.
13:02You're getting shoved.
13:03So now head to head.
13:04So the Louisville dive over the top does give you a chance for that head to head collision,
13:10but no different than it would over, you know, a quarterback sneak necessarily.
13:15And that awkwardness of the NFC championship game.
13:17I'm glad that was like mentioned in Murphy's statement.
13:20And now again, I disagree with him on that where it's like, well, what Washington was
13:23doing is ridiculous that, you know, it's not ridiculous at all.
13:26I think he was saying the sequence was ridiculous, wasn't he?
13:28I thought he was talking about it.
13:29I thought that was a disgrace.
13:30Well, he's putting it in his statement.
13:32Why did he get rid of the play?
13:33I thought he was basically saying the play is making a mockery of the game in some way.
13:37But I don't know.
13:38To me, a couple of years ago, when I first saw it, I was adamant that we had to get rid
13:44of it.
13:45I thought it was too successful at too high a rate, couldn't be defended.
13:49And it looked like a rugby play to me.
13:51I don't necessarily feel the same way anymore.
13:55I would have no problem with it being banned.
13:58But I try to be consistent as often as I can be like, I hate that we got rid of the shift
14:03in Major League Baseball.
14:04I don't like when teams figure something out.
14:07And because they're uber successful by doing it in a smart way, that we penalize them.
14:14And you're not trying to do it for that reason.
14:17But a lot of people are.
14:18Their flat out argument is, that thing's successful 97% of the time, you can't stop it.
14:23That's a bad reason to get rid of it for me.
14:25It's a bad precedent to set.
14:26Now, if someone wants to prove that it is more dangerous, which you were just trying
14:30to do, I don't think it's more dangerous for Jalen Hurts.
14:32I disagree.
14:33I think it's more dangerous for the linemen.
14:34I haven't even gotten to them.
14:35Is that weird, like helmet to helmet, or like, I think of Jason Kelsey going like straight
14:41down like he's trying to dig into the ground.
14:42I was going to say, everyone's trying to get lower and heads bow, and that's, I mean, there's
14:45your, there's your, you know, neck, spinal type stuff.
14:48Of course.
14:49To me, it is a recipe for disaster.
14:51But I would say that that's no different, really, than a quarterback sneak, in terms
14:55of the lines and what they're doing.
14:57The Eagles have taken this to another level with the tush push now, but it's kind of the
15:01exact same thing as a fourth and inches.
15:04If Jalen Hurts was just doing that without AJ Brown shoving him from behind, that just
15:07gives you the momentum to get the extra foot.
15:10The counter to the counter there is on a quarterback sneak.
15:14You don't know it's a quarterback sneak.
15:15This one, everybody's lined up.
15:17In other words, it could be a handoff.
15:18It could be a bootleg.
15:19It could be, I suppose, the Eagles have now done some counters, but when everybody's geared
15:23up to stop it, they're all doing this dance where heads are down, necks are extended,
15:28extra danger.
15:29You can bet big on a quarterback sneak and try, but you also may have to defend every
15:33blade of grass when other teams are doing fourth and shorts.