This week saw a major breakthrough for Syria's interim leaders, in their efforts to unify the war-torn country, as the Kurdish-led militia that controls the north-east agreed to merge with the new government. FRANCE 24's Sharon Gaffney speaks to Kawa Hassan, from the Middle East and North Africa Programme at the Stimson Centre. He says that the deal will be “monumental” for Syria, for Kurds and for the region.
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00:00This is Apropos.
00:04This week saw a major breakthrough for Syria's interim leaders in their efforts to unify
00:09the war-torn country as the Kurdish-led militia that controls the northeast agreed to merge
00:15with the new government.
00:16The deal came after days of violent clashes in a coastal region that left more than 1,000
00:21people dead.
00:22With more on the reaction to that agreement, here's a special report from our team on the
00:27ground in northeastern Syria.
00:34Gunfire echoes throughout the city.
00:36Haseki is celebrating.
00:38By signing a deal, Damascus and the authorities of northeastern Syria have given the population
00:44a spark of hope, after some had feared the outbreak of a new civil war.
00:50Agreement.
00:53Peace is a good thing.
00:54I hope for the best for what's next.
00:56The agreement aims to ensure the political representation of all Syrians, recognize Kurdish
01:02rights and integrate the civilian and military institutions of the northeast into the national
01:08structures, and calls for a ceasefire across the entire territory.
01:18It is welcomed here as an end to years of division.
01:24We are happy to get rid of the civil war and sectarianism and become Syria.
01:28Every nation is one.
01:30This is the best.
01:31It's accomplished.
01:35Syria is tired of 12 to 13 years of fear, displacement and bloodshed.
01:40We are all tired, Arabs and Kurds.
01:47But some of the demonstrators are not happy with the idea that the political and military
01:51authorities, who have controlled the autonomous province for a decade, might lose power.
01:59What we understand from the agreement is that they have an accord.
02:04And they are one now.
02:05We don't accept this.
02:08He is not the only one wary of the deal.
02:10For now, it's an agreement between the two parties.
02:13But the details are still to be negotiated.
02:19We're joined now by Kawa Hassan from the Middle East and North Africa program at the Stimson
02:24Center.
02:25Kawa, thanks so much for being with us on the program this evening.
02:29Firstly, the security situation has remained unstable in Syria since the fall of Bashar
02:35al-Assad.
02:36Just how much of a difference will this deal make, the deal with the Kurdish militia on
02:41the ground in Syria?
02:44Thank you very much.
02:45Good evening.
02:46Thanks for having me.
02:47This deal is indeed a landmark deal to begin with.
02:52And if implemented, it will be really monumental for Syria, for Kurds, and for the region.
02:58So to what extent, to your question, to what extent the security situation will be impacted
03:04by this deal, I mean, it remains to be seen.
03:08Unfortunately, the killing is still going on in coastal areas of Syria against Alawites.
03:17And the number of civilians killed and butchered is rising, even though overall the tensions
03:26in the region is decreasing.
03:28But the overall security situation in the coastal area hasn't changed dramatically.
03:34But what has changed is that this deal will pave the way for, you know, serious discussions
03:44between SDF and between Damascus, the new administration in Damascus, to work out the
03:51details and to be implemented, hopefully, as they have stated in their agreement in
03:56the deal, within nine months.
03:58I personally think, I think it will be difficult to have that implemented in nine months.
04:04But we'll see how much of it will be implemented.
04:08So a landmark deal, the devil is in the detail.
04:13And hopefully, both internal and regional dynamics will allow for its implementation.
04:19And there hasn't been an awful lot of detail released so far, Kawa.
04:25How do you think this is all going to work in practice?
04:27Will the SDF, for example, be allowed to operate as a distinct military bloc within
04:33the armed forces?
04:34Or how exactly is that going to play out?
04:36Good question.
04:37We don't know yet exactly, particularly when, you know, on this particular issue, actually
04:43the, again, the devil is in the detail.
04:47So the deal itself, it says that SDF will be integrated, both the military, you know,
04:54SDF as a military entity, but also all the civilian administrations in northeast Syria,
05:00they will be integrated into the new Syria, Syrian state institutions.
05:06How that will be done, that is something to be, you know, has been left for negotiations
05:12to be negotiated in different committees, you know, committees that will deal with education,
05:19of course, dealing with judiciary, ISIS detainees, the prisons, the issue of economy, the management
05:26of oil and gas fields, the management of border crossing, the airport and other issues.
05:34So all these, you know, important issues, I think they will be, they will be definitely
05:41negotiated in the coming months and committees have to be established.
05:48So about the exact nature of integration of SDF into the new Syrian army, that remains
05:54to be seen.
05:55Will they be, well, can they remain as one block preserving some sort of autonomy within
06:02the northeast or they have to be also, you know, deployed to other parts of Syria?
06:09That actually we don't know yet.
06:11So, you know, I think the coming months hopefully will give us, you know, an answer to these
06:19to this question.
06:20And do you think the deal might help to ease Turkish military pressure on the SDF?
06:25It's deemed by Ankara to be an extension of the PKK.
06:29I think so.
06:30At least for now, the Turkish response has been actually positive.
06:35Turkey has welcomed this deal, which is a very positive development, which is very good
06:42for Syria, for Kurds, for the new administration in Damascus, but also for Turkey and overall
06:47for the regional stability.
06:49So the fact that Turkey has welcomed the deal, that in itself is really a welcome, good news.
06:55And indeed, the hope is that, you know, this deal will decrease the conflict between SDF
07:03and maybe at some point end the conflict, the military conflict between SDF and Syrian
07:08National Army militias, which are supported by Turkey.
07:11But as of now, actually today, there were some clashes still, you know, in Manbij between
07:20SDF and Syrian National Army.
07:22So for the time being, the fighting hasn't stopped.
07:25But the deal itself calls for, and this is important, I think it should be emphasized,
07:30it calls for a ceasefire across the entire Syria.
07:36And I think even if it's not implemented immediately, but in fact, having such a clause
07:42is definitely important to going forward to reach also an agreement with Turkey that at
07:48some point, hopefully, this will lead to end of the conflict between SDF and the Syrian
07:54National Army.
07:55And as well as Turkey, the U.S. was also supporting this deal.
07:59Seemingly it encouraged its Kurdish allies to reach an agreement.
08:03What committee do you think Washington is to retaining a presence in Syria?
08:08Well, first of all, I think the role of the U.S. was more than important.
08:13It was actually pivotal.
08:14So without U.S. pivotal role, I think it would have been impossible to have a deal at this
08:23particular moment of time in Syria.
08:26So the commander of the U.S. Central Command, General Michael Karela, played a pivotal role
08:33in encouraging, indeed, SDF to go ahead with the negotiations.
08:37And they even provided an airplane for General Mazloum Abdi, the general commander of SDF,
08:44to travel to Damascus and finalize the deal with Ahmad al-Sharia.
08:49So U.S. role is absolutely key.
08:52As to the future U.S. presence and role in Syria, again, it's unclear.
08:58But from what we hear right now, at least from Washington and particularly from Pentagon,
09:03sources close to Pentagon, it seems that Pentagon is really developing all kinds of plans, scenarios
09:10for the moment that President Trump may decide to withdraw troops from northeast Syria.
09:16So I think also, according to the Reuters report today, it seems that U.S. is really
09:23playing an important role also to make sure that in the event of a U.S. withdrawal, this
09:29will not lead to chaos and it will not be a chaotic withdrawal, as we have seen in Afghanistan.
09:36So again, also, this is a welcome news for Syria and also for the Kurds.
09:41And Kawa, Kurdish leaders have been negotiating with the interim authorities in Damascus about
09:46the future of their people.
09:48What exactly are they seeking to secure in those talks?
09:52Right.
09:53So SDF and the autonomous administration in northeast Syria for the past 13, 14 years
09:59has actually been calling for decentralization of northeast Syria so that, you know, that
10:05part of Syria would have autonomy to administer its own affairs.
10:10What is interesting is that in the current deal, in the current, you know, version, there
10:16is no mention whatsoever of decentralization to northeast Syria.
10:21But there are other interesting clauses, which, for instance, it calls for a, you know, ensuring
10:30the citizenship and constitutional rights of Kurds.
10:35And it recognizes Kurds for the first time since the establishment of modern Syria as
10:40an authentic community, you know, as part of the Syrian society.
10:45Because as we know, since, you know, 1962, hundreds of thousands of Kurds have been actually,
10:51you know, they haven't had any citizenship rights and they were marginalized within Syria.
10:59So they were basically stateless within Syria.
11:03So this deal, it recognized the political rights of Kurds without going into detail.
11:09So I think, again, this particular issue about how much autonomy northeast Syria will gain,
11:18you know, in Syria, that remains to be seen.
11:22And it will be, you know, fiercely negotiated, I guess, in one of those committees to be
11:28formed in the coming period.
11:30Kawa, we'll have to leave it there for now.
11:32But thank you so much for being with us on the program this evening.
11:34That's Kawa Hassan from the Middle East and North Africa program at the Stimson Center.
11:39Well, that's it from us for now.