The MK Stalin-led Tamil Nadu government has replaced the rupee symbol with a Tamil letter in its state budget logo, amidst an ongoing language row between the state and the centre.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. It's Thursday night and ahead of Holi, a very happy Holi
00:06to each and every one of you. Let's bring you all that we have on the news today, the
00:12news without the noise. The MK Stalin government is ratcheting up the pressure, now drops the
00:18rupee symbol and replaces it with a Tamil letter in its budget logo. Is the Tamil Nadu
00:25Chief Minister playing a dangerous political game between Tamil Nadu versus the centre?
00:32Also Holi will take place tomorrow but some say under a political shadow. Holi and Ramzan
00:38together, should they be at any kind of conflict at all? Who's stirring the pot? We'll tell
00:47you more on that. But first as always, it's time for the 9 headlines at 9. The MK Stalin
00:54government in Tamil Nadu replaces the rupee symbol with a Tamil letter in the state budget
01:00logo amidst the language row, never before rejection of the national currency symbol.
01:09Smuggling accused actor Rania's statement acts as Rania doesn't reveal the identity
01:13of the kingpin in the alleged gold smuggling scam, says man in a white gown gave me gold
01:19at the airport. Holi celebration begin in UP's Sambal amidst tight security. Mahadev
01:27Mandir sees Holi after 46 years. Devotees throng the temple even as security remains
01:33tight. President approves filing of an FIR against AAP's Mani Sisodia and Satyendra Jain
01:41in an alleged 1300 crore classroom scam. AAP claims this is all part of a conspiracy to
01:48target the party. Russia plays hardball. Zelensky says Putin seeking to prolong the
01:55war as Kremlin aid says proposed 30 day ceasefire is just a temporary respite for Ukraine. Tensions
02:04escalate between Iran and Trump. Iran's Kamini threatens US with military action after rejecting
02:11a nuketalks proposal sent by the UAE. Suicide attack in Pakistan's Khyber Pakhtunkhwa days
02:20after a train siege, 10 TTP terrorists are killed. ISRO achieved the de-docking of Spedex
02:29satellites set stage for Chandrayaan-4 liftoff. NASA's SpaceX postponed mission to bring back
02:37stranded astronaut Sunita Williams but will more delay due to a hydraulic system issue.
02:42But our top story today is coming once again from Chennai, where the Tamil Nadu government
02:55led by DMK's MK Stalin have now rejected the national rupee symbol. That's right. The Stalin
03:03in a budget document dropped the official rupee symbol and replaced it with Tamil letters. Never
03:10before have we seen a government reject the national currency in this matter. Is this all
03:15part of the Tamil Nadu government's attempt to create a divide between the centre and Tamil
03:22Nadu? Here's our top story on a day when the war between Chennai and Delhi only seems to be
03:29escalating. The MK Stalin government ups the ante, escalating the language war. It has dropped
03:39the rupee symbol from the state budget logo. The 2025 Tamil Nadu budget copy shows the Tamil
03:50letters RU as compared to the budget copy of 2024 that had the national rupee symbol.
03:58Are you against the symbol, sir? Is the message here that you want to promote Tamil or is it that
04:03you know we are against the national rupee symbol and that's why we've replaced it?
04:06See, just because we have used this Tamil word, does it mean that we are rejecting others? No.
04:14We are saying we are preferring one symbol over the other. Okay, so are we going to say in Tamil
04:21Nadu going forward, beyond this budget also, no rupee symbol, the national rupee symbol
04:27recognised internationally, we will not see that, but instead RU written in Tamil?
04:31See, see, I think you're taking it too far. In the Tamil Nadu budget document, we have used
04:38Tamil word RU. It doesn't mean we have rejected the rupee symbol. What have we got against the
04:44symbol? DMK was immediately accused of hypocrisy by the BJP, which went on to call it a stupid
04:52move which can harm India's federal structure. The official propaganda channel carries a well-made
04:59two-minute video in which the ru, the rupee symbol is replaced in coins by Tamil ru. They
05:04have done it. Next the DIPR, which is Tamil Nadu state government's news media arm, it has sent
05:10press notes to all the television channels to say 2024 this was the logo, 2025 we have changed
05:15it, just a part of the language work. They have done everything. Suddenly now, in the last 30
05:20minutes, they are going on the back foot. Because after you, the national media channels led by all
05:25of you, you have picked it up in a big way. And little did they know it is invented by a Tamilian,
05:29designed by a Tamilian. Little did they know there is a DMK connection also. The rupee symbol was
05:35designed by Uday Kumar Dharmalingam, an academic and designer from Tamil Nadu, who is ironically
05:41son of a DMK MLA. The rupee symbol was adopted nationally by the Centre in 2010 by the Congress
05:50led UPA government, which ironically had DMK as an ally. As the DMK crossed the proverbial Lakshman
06:00Rekha in its eagerness to target Hindi and get all dividends. With Pramod Madhav, Bureau Report,
06:07India Today. A short while ago we spoke to Uday Dharmalingam, the designer of the rupee symbol,
06:16ironically someone from Tamil Nadu. Sir, the rupee symbol, tell us how you designed this
06:23symbol in the first instance. Is it Hindi? So, this was actually a competition floated by the
06:33government of India in 2009. So, I kind of had, I was like working and then I, since I was working
06:44on my thesis and so I did a lot of research on the scripts. So, based on that, in fact,
06:51the competition had certain guidelines. One of them was that the Indian, the symbol should reflect
06:57our Indian culture and tradition. So, I tried to kind of focus on that and based my design on the
07:02script itself. So, I choose the Devanagari script and also the Latin scripts and try to kind of
07:06amalgamate together to create something which is universal. Like it is R for rupees, R for rupiah.
07:14So, both kind of denote the Indian currency. So, that was the fundamental concept in the rupee
07:21symbol. And like I said, it was in 2009 and the government announced it in 2010. So, just let me
07:30get this clear. What was the message you wanted to send with the rupee symbol as you designed it?
07:35To highlight one language or to see this language as a unifier? When I see that rupee symbol,
07:40you believe it's a unifier. Am I correct? Yes. So, I wanted to create a universal symbol so
07:46that people all over the world should be able to understand what the symbol is. So,
07:50I tried to kind of blend, like I said, the Latin script and also Devanagari script together to
07:55create the sign. So, it's kind of an abbreviated version of rupees and rupiah. Tell us about the
08:02reception you received in Tamil Nadu when your design was chosen. There are images of you at
08:07that time with Kalaignar Karunanidhi also. Yes. So, I met Dr. Kalaignar there and then I got his
08:18blessings with all my families. So, that was probably in 2011 because the competition was
08:23announced in 2009 and the results were announced in 2010. So, then I think probably in 2011,
08:29if I remember correctly or early 2012. So, I kind of visited his residence and took his blessings.
08:36Now, away from who's saying what, what would your message be to anyone today who's politicizing this
08:43symbol? Well, see, I mean, it was a competition, I participated and I won. So, if something happens
08:52after that, post the design and also after 15 years. So, I do not have much to say because
08:59probably, of course, any design is bound for criticism at any point of time. But yeah,
09:05it's all a learning experience. I would like to take this as an understanding and just probably
09:09keep this in mind in the future designs. Uday Kumar Dharmalingam, the person who in a way
09:18designed the rupee symbol joining us earlier today. Let's therefore then turn to the big
09:23questions that we want to raise because this is a high stakes political game now. Is MK's talent
09:29playing with fire? Is the DMK's rupee gambit replacing the rupee with a Tamil symbol fraught
09:38with danger? Are we seeing a growing trust deficit between Centre and Tamil Nadu government
09:43widening or is this pure politics? Face off today's Salim Dharnidharan. He's the spokesperson
09:49of the DMK. Vinod Selvam is from the BJP. Appreciate both of you joining us. Mr. Dharnidharan,
09:57when something as sensitive as the currency of this country, the lettering is sought to
10:04be replaced with Tamil symbols. What is the message that the DMK is sending out in a budget
10:10document? It almost seems to some as if you're rejecting what is seen as a unifying national
10:16symbol. No, no, I see. First of all, more uniformity does not mean more unity. In fact,
10:25we need more diversity for more unity. This is nothing to do with the rejection of the symbol.
10:30It's more to do with, see in Tamil, what is rupee? Rupee is called as rubai. The ru, the Tamil
10:35alphabet has been used because the whole material was in Tamil language. As simple as it is to
10:42emphasize the importance given to Tamil. This is symbolic. Suddenly you've woken up to it,
10:47Salim Dharnidharan. This is a rupee symbol that has existed for 16 years. Suddenly one day you
10:53wake up of the backdrop many believe of the national education policy language debate and
10:59say we're going to replace the rupee symbol with Tamil lettering. Come on.
11:02See, no, we are not, did we like the Prime Minister go and in one night overall replace
11:11all the notes and put people into agony? It's a budget document prepared by Tamil Nadu government,
11:14Tamil Nadu taxpayers' money. We are going to decide how it's going to be spent. That
11:17document we are putting the Tamil alphabet. It is not that we are saying that the currency
11:23should be replaced with ru. Okay, all we are saying is all languages, Schedule 8 languages
11:27should be given equal importance. Hindi, Tamil or Malayalam or Telugu or Kannada are equal.
11:32None of the languages have more importance than the other. That's all. Maybe because Hindi is
11:37spoken by 28% of the people as mother tongue does not mean that it's more important than Tamil.
11:41At the same time, I'm not disrespecting Hindi or any other language for that matter. But no
11:46importance, no more importance to one language. So you are making, exactly in your answer Mr.
11:54Dharani Dharan, you are making a political point. What you are trying to do is you are now using the
11:59rupee to make a political point. See, the point is who brought us to this situation? It is the
12:09BJP. What did the DMK do in the 60s and Congress did the same thing then. Now of course we are
12:13an alliance. Congress has understood. They are fighting for state rights. But back then not. We
12:17fought them tooth and nail and it's only because of the DMK we don't have Hindi as a national
12:20language. It is only because of the DMK the first constitutional amendment was brought
12:23about and reservations were introduced. And now through NEP, through UGC reforms, NEET,
12:29the list goes on and on. They are trying to destroy the federal ethos and more importantly,
12:33leave all aside, this is a simple message. Tamil is important. If you hit, if the Union
12:37government is trying to destroy the federalism of this land, the voice will erupt from Tamil Nadu.
12:41We will make sure India remains a federal secular country and this is for the betterment of the
12:46country. Okay, let me bring that to Vinod Selvam. Vinod Selvam, you are hearing the DMK saying we
12:53are only emphasizing the importance of Tamil in a multilingual society. Do you see this as pure
13:01symbolism which any government is entitled to or a threat to national unity as some are suggesting?
13:06Rajdeep, we can clearly see that the Chief Minister is being very misguided at this point.
13:13It is a national symbol which has been accepted by people for the last 16 years. And the symbol
13:19was not just made up overnight, but it was decided after a lot of research, after a lot of scholars
13:24were put on the job. And it is not a Hindi word. It is a word which combines all the concepts of
13:30revisionism, to Latin, to Roman, all the concepts are put in together to design a symbol which can
13:36be used as uniform throughout the world for the Indian rupee. Now, trying to meddle with these
13:41things is nothing but stupid. It is stupidity at its core, which is what the DMK is doing. Nothing
13:48to but just hide the shortcomings of the DMK government. Today, if you see two hours back,
13:53the Enforcement Directorate has released a document where they have clearly said that the
13:58TASMAC which supplies alcohol to the bars and the wine shops of Tamil Nadu has indulged in a
14:04malpractice amounting to over 1000 crores. So what Kejriwal did in Delhi, what KCR did in Telangana,
14:11what Congress did in Chhattisgarh, their partner, the DMK has done in Tamil Nadu. And if you see
14:17closely, all the liquor companies which have been supplying to the TASMAC are 70% owned by the DMK
14:23members. So many kickback has been found out, more than 1000 crores has been there. And just
14:28to hide all this, just to divert the attention from the corruption scam, DMK means corruption,
14:34just to hide the corruption, they are now trying to divert by saying ru-ra-ra, this and all that,
14:40but it is not going to work. You don't accept Mr. Vinod Selvam that all the Tamil Nadu government
14:48is emphasizing that they are a government which is committed to a multilingual India where Tamil
14:55has its specific place. They are not bothered about, DMK is least bothered about Tamil language.
15:02I'm telling you, the number of students failing in Tamil language has been increasing over the
15:07years ever since DMK came to power. The 11th standard examination, 11,000 students have
15:12failed to appear in the first examination. That is the standard of education that the DMK is
15:16providing the Tamil Nadu. All they do is fast and all they do is try to create a narrative,
15:22but now this time around in 2025, they are failing miserably in the narrative setting
15:27and 2026 is going to teach them the hardest lesson they ever have been taught before.
15:33You know, Mr. Dhardi Dharan, the larger point which is being made, not just by Vinod Selvam,
15:37but by a number of objective observers looking at Tamil Nadu is that these are all weapons of
15:42mass distraction. You have an election one year from now. You don't want the public to focus on
15:48alleged misgovernance or alleged issues of corruption. You want to create an emotional
15:53issue. You found that in creating a old style linguistic war of sorts between Tamil Nadu
16:00and Delhi. This is shadow boxing and shadow boxing that can now spiral out of control.
16:06Is this a weapon of mass distraction?
16:12See Rajdeep, so firstly before I answer that, I have to dispel some lies which was thrown because
16:17it can't be used as a platform to spread lies. Under DMK last year, the pass percentage in
16:23Tamil was 97%. I have the proof. People can go and check in Google. And similarly, it's
16:27preposterous to say that we are trying to do it for election or to divert issues because
16:32we have provided very good governance. The law and order has improved. Everything has improved.
16:35In fact, who is picking up the issue? It's the BJP that picked up the issue. Annamalai came and
16:40spoke and news channels picked it up. Only then now it's being discussed. We only wanted to give
16:45importance to Tamil and want to symbolize the message that Tamil will remain and because
16:50that's a regional identity. You want people to hide the issues of alleged corruption is the
16:56charge being made. Who blew it outside of proportion? The BJP. See, he can make anything
17:02and whatever but is any DMK minister convicted? Currently none. He said about the other chief
17:08ministers but the matter is sub judice. Just because ED suspects something and files a case
17:15does not mean that they have committed the crime, right? So what happened to 2G? We realized that
17:192G scam was the biggest scam because they had an agenda, the BJP and the officer involved
17:25was involved with the BJP and that's why the scam erupted. It's been 10 years of BJP rule.
17:31Anything that happened in 2G? Nothing. So our leaders spent several years of their life in jail
17:36and the party got a bad name. Why? So unless court gives a verdict we should not come and say that
17:43they made a scam, right? There is no proof that DMK is involved in corruption because BJP
17:49spokesperson or ADMK spokesperson comes and says DMK is involved in corruption doesn't make that
17:54we are corrupt. Where is the proof? Give the proof, right? Without proof I can come and say
17:59Vinod P Selvam is corrupt. He has stolen money from me but where is the proof, right? So if I
18:05have to accuse someone I have to give a proof. Okay let me, you know Vinod Selvam, the fear is
18:12Vinod Selvam there is a widening trust deficit between Chennai and Delhi. Instead of reaching
18:17out to Chennai what happens the education minister a few days ago in parliament suggests that this is
18:23uncivilized behavior. There seems to be an unwillingness to appreciate that maybe there
18:28are sentiments in Tamil Nadu represented by the DMK that feel that the center is imposing language
18:34on them and therefore Tamil Nadu is making a larger point. How do you respond to that? That
18:40the center needs to bridge the trust deficit instead of taking on the DMK simply because
18:45it's an opposition government. Okay before I get to that point the DMK spokesperson has to remember
18:53that for the 2G scam their leaders were put behind bars by their ally congress. It was not the BJP
18:58who put them behind bars. Right now their minister Senthil Balaji is out on bail. The day they came
19:03out of bail he's again made a minister because he's their cash cow. These are things which the
19:07DMK cannot forget. From the days of Sarkaria commission till now DMK has been a corrupt party
19:12and please don't try to deny that on any platform and you will lose very badly. Moving on all the
19:17partners of the DMK including the congress have accepted the new education policy. Now the chief
19:23minister of Tamil Nadu has reached out to the Karnataka chief minister asking him to participate
19:27in the delimitation debate. But if these people were really bothered about Tamil Nadu they should
19:32have gone to Karnataka and spoken about the Megadhooth issue. Did they bring it up? The
19:36Karnataka government has been repeatedly saying that they will build a dam across the Megadhooth.
19:41But the incapable leaders of the DMK have not opened their mouth on that. They don't have
19:46the audacity to go and speak about that. It is absolute cowardice what they are doing
19:50and it's absolute politics. Just like how they are responsible for 10 people, for 10 children
19:55to end their lives trusting the word that the DMK was going to ban the NEET examinations which
20:01they never did. So the DMK has blood on its hands. The death of the 10 children DMK is responsible
20:06for that. Similarly they're trying to take up a language debate which is not even there because
20:12the word Hindi has not been mentioned anywhere in the new education policy. There has not been
20:17one DMK leader who has come out being able to prove that. They are a bunch of liars and they
20:22continue to lie and deceive people but this time around it has backfired so badly for them.
20:31Okay I want to ask you Dharani Dharan in conclusion. The irony is that the person
20:35who designed this rupee symbol is a Tamilian. Think about it. A Tamilian has designed the
20:40rupee symbol and today you seem to see that particular symbol as an imposition by Delhi
20:46and thereby want to replace it with the Tamil symbol. I mean come on again. You know Mr.
20:51Dharani Dharan surely there are far more important issues that the Tamil Nadu government should be
20:55focusing on. Yes, yes exactly that's what I'm saying. That is what I'm saying. It's a channel
21:01that is picking it up. We've just used the Tamil word ru. That doesn't mean that we are discrediting
21:06his work. He could be very creative. I know him personally. He's very creative and he even did
21:10not come and blame the Tamil Nadu government. It's okay. He's going to remain the symbol for the
21:13rupee right because this will be RBI. Here in the budget of Tamil Nadu taxpayer money but again
21:18the BJP spokesperson to stop his water boundary. He now went and spoke about Meghadadu and DMK
21:24has made it clear that Meghadadu will not happen. DPR for Meghadadu was prepared during BJP's rule
21:29in Karnataka when their ally ADMK was in power here. They both in cahoots allowed that to happen.
21:34Now he comes and spreads lies. They only come and speak lies. The topic is what? Topic is about
21:38using ru, Tamil alphabet there, right? But he comes and talks about anything and everything
21:43which has no correlation whatsoever, a complete lie and this can't be used as a platform to dispel
21:49rumors and lies as is spoken with evidence when Meghadadu, DPR, financial sector was all awarded
21:53during BJP's rule in Karnataka and ADMK's rule here with an alliance and my leader has clearly
21:58said it won't happen. We won't allow it to happen and no step has taken further there and now he
22:03comes and calls, now he comes and casts aspersion on us which is unacceptable absolutely.
22:12The cross talk was there.
22:13The oldest language in India, right? We want to give importance to it.
22:17Okay, you want to give importance to it. The best way, there could be several other ways to give
22:22importance to a language apart from the fact that during a specific document you choose to replace
22:27the rupee symbol with Tamil lettering. It clearly suggests that you are playing with the politics
22:33of language and it's only going to escalate perhaps ahead of election next year but I appreciate
22:38my two guests joining me here, Mr. Dharani Dharan, Vinod Selvam. As I said as a rule we don't get
22:43spokespersons now because we don't want noise but I think we had two clear viewpoints emerging
22:50there both from the BJP, one from the DMK. Let's turn to our other big issue that we want to wrestle
22:56with today, another news story. India celebrates the festival of Holi on Friday but this year the
23:03festival is taking place under some tension, political tension because in many places the
23:10celebration coincides with Friday namaz during the Ramzan month. Many Muslim clerics have called
23:15for a delay in prayer timings in sensitive areas including sambal in Uttar Pradesh. Here is a report
23:22on how Holi is also getting tangled in the politics of religion.
23:39Holi, the festival of colors and harmony hit by communal divide.
23:44This year the festivities coincide with Friday namaz and that too during Ramzan raising concerns
23:54about security. In Sambhal, 10 mosques including the disputed site have been covered.
24:05The Sambhal town in Uttar Pradesh has seen riots last year during a court-mandated survey
24:15of the Shahi Jama Masjid that the Hindu site calls the Harihar temple.
24:22The security forces conducted a flag march in Sambhal on Thursday, a day before Holi.
24:28A heavy number of police officers have been patrolling here on the streets of Sambhal which
24:36is on high alert because of Holi as well as Friday prayers both coinciding on the same day.
24:41In the visuals you can see the Vajravan is also patrolling on the streets of Sambhal and this is
24:47like a warning for the elements those who will try to break law and order in the city. A police
24:54officer in Sambhal had recently suggested that Muslims stay home during celebrations
25:00if they had a problem with colors triggering a massive controversy.
25:24Yogi Adityanath at the India Today conclave backed the police officer.
25:54Some clerics however criticize the actions of the administration.
26:25But security concerns are not restricted to Sambhal alone. A mosque in Kanpur
26:32postponed the Friday prayers to evening. Police have tightened security in cities
26:39across North India including Lucknow, Indore, Prayagraj, Gautam Budnagar
26:46in the national capital region and of course the national capital Delhi.
26:55A festival that's been celebrated for centuries, a shining example of religious coexistence in
27:01India is today unfortunately under a cloud of communal tensions
27:09with Anmol Bali, Bureau Report, India Today.
27:15Okay let's get some ground updates on that story. Anmol Bali our correspondent joins
27:19us from Sambhal. Aishwarya Paliwal joins us from Mathura. First to you Anmol very quickly you're in
27:26Sambhal which is seen as the epicenter of this rising tension between communities over the last
27:32few months. We are told that all the mosques have been covered with tarpaulin. Firmans have been
27:38issued there. Is the situation though relatively peaceful despite all that's happened over the last
27:43few weeks?
27:49Rajdeep basically it was seen that last year in the month of November Sambhal witnessed
27:53violent clashes, a violent riot between the Muslim community and the administration and after that
28:00tomorrow it will be seen that people will be celebrating Holi and that is too coinciding on
28:04the same day of Friday prayers in the month of Ramadan. So they have formed a peace committee
28:10they have talked with the police and then they have came to a decision to cover the mosques with
28:15the plastic sheets especially those mosques which will be falling on the way of the Holi procession
28:23as well as they have installed CCTV cameras. They're keeping eye on drones also. They are
28:28also surveillancing the social media and they have detained more than thousand people. Those
28:34police think that could break law and order or could bring violence to the Sambhal but currently
28:40the Sambhal is normal and police is maintaining peace and law and order and heavy deployment of
28:45police has been done on the street of Sambhal. RRF as well as PAC has been deployed on the streets
28:51to maintain peace law and order and harmony in the city. Well that's reassuring in a way that
28:56there are peace communities being set up. Let's turn away from that security dragnet to where you
29:01are Aishwarya Paliwal in Mathura where of course Holi starts a day earlier and I'm sure that you
29:07are part of the celebrations in a way. Mathura presumably already lit up with colour.
29:18Well Rajdeep you know as you can see from my appearance this is exactly how the day started
29:23and it is how the day is ending also because the people are out there on the streets celebrating
29:27Holi. Let me tell you where exactly I'm standing. I'm standing right outside the big temple the
29:33temple. Now this is a temple which shares one wall with the mosque the disputed mosque at the
29:38moment and right behind me is also the Holi preparations which have been done. Now this
29:43marks this is a symbol of the victory of good over evil but there is also massive politics Rajdeep.
29:49Let me tell you that is now playing out you know right outside the mosque there is heavy barricading
29:53which has been done and here even in Mathura the administration is on its toes. They do not want
29:59any kind of untoward incident to take place on the day of Holi. The administration in fact has
30:04also made an appeal that if need be you please go and offer your namaz either earlier or after
30:113 p.m. So that's what is happening here in Mathura. This also is a big disputed site the big
30:16Krishn Jan Bhoomi temple which still shares one wall with the Shahi Masjid. That's also something
30:21which is in the court at the moment and it's something which will be looked at but yes
30:25celebrations as Rajdeep you can see on my face and all my clothes has been going on. In fact let me
30:30tell you this entire region the bridge region celebrates Holi for close to 35 days and tomorrow
30:36is the last day when they will actually stop celebrating Holi. People are excited but the
30:40administration on its toes. The administration in Uttar Pradesh clearly taking no chances whether
30:46it's Mathura or Sambal, Aishwarya, Paliwal and Anmol Bali joining us there have a happy Holi.
30:52Let me turn to the questions. Holi under a political shadow, a festival of colors being
30:58caught in religious crossfire. Why discordant notes in what should be a festival of harmony?
31:04Joining me at this moment are some special guests. I'm joined at the moment by Amogh Leela Das. He's
31:10a monk and spiritual motivational speaker. I'm joined by Shahid Siddiqui chairman Interfaith
31:16Peace Foundation and also editor of Nai Duniya. Vikram Singh is former DGP of Uttar Pradesh and
31:22Anand Kumar is a leading sociologist. I appreciate all of you joining us. I want to come to you
31:27Amogh Leela Das first. I mean you would have thought that this was an opportunity to show
31:33India's interfaith harmony. Those who want to do their namaz can do their namaz. Those who want to
31:38celebrate Holi can do their can celebrate Holi and surely there is enough space in a wonderful
31:45country like India for Hindus and Muslims to happily coexist. Why does it need firmans from
31:50the government and a seeming attempt almost being created to polarize people? Yes, actually it's a
31:58Holi occasion and on the Holi occasion the thought should also be Holi and there should not be
32:03anything unholy on this Holi occasion of Holi, but somehow people get into this somehow to create
32:08influence, but on the name of influence, sometimes they inject hatred. So I think all of us should
32:16cooperate because of course namaz, we respect namaz, we should respect all religions. So that's
32:21why Muslims have all right to do their namaz, but since Holi comes once in a year, so that's out of
32:27this brotherhood. I think our Muslim brother should kindly cooperate with us. In fact, the
32:32Quran also mentions in Surah Al-Maidah in chapter five, verse number two, that one should cooperate
32:36in piety. So that means when some pious activity is happening, so we should cooperate into it. So
32:41the Quran itself, it's mentioned that in Surah Al-Insan, it is full on. So should Hindus cooperate with Muslims?
32:49Both communities should cooperate in a way with each other. Hindus should ensure that Muslims
32:54are allowed to practice their namaz without throwing color on them in any form and those who
32:59want to practice namaz should allow a Holi procession to take place.
33:04Yes, of course. So in case some color falls on their body, it doesn't really cause them to deviate
33:11from their religion. So they are practicing Islam. So they are Muslims and some yellow, blue,
33:17green color falls in case it falls on their body. So they can say, yeah, happy Holi. May Lord Allah
33:22bless all of you. So why can't it be very simple? It's a very simple thing. Somehow, I don't know
33:27why we complicate such simple matters. Why do you complicate simple matters is what is being
33:32suggested here. Shahid Siddiqui, do you believe that this is a deliberate attempt to politicize
33:37what can easily be solved through inter-community dialogue, through
33:42people peace committees? Why do you need, in a way, politics to get involved at all?
33:52Rajdeep, this is a manufactured controversy. There is no controversy at all. No Muslim has said that
33:58they should not be Holi and oppose Holi at all. I am just now coming from a Holi celebration. I was
34:04at Uma Sharma's place where we were celebrating Bridge Holi, where I have been going for last 30
34:12years. And Muslims, whether in the Mughal times or earlier, even 700 years back, when I'm sitting
34:21here in Nizam-ud-Din, where at the Dargah of Hazrat Nizam-ud-Din, the Holi was always celebrated,
34:30always sung. Amir Khusrow wrote his famous, you know, geet in Hindi, in bridge bhasha,
34:43that has been happening all along. So there is no controversy, number one. Number two,
34:49the idea that mosques should be covered is an absolutely distasteful idea. This has happened
34:56only in recent times. And this is not the first time that Holi is taking place on a Ramzan Jummah.
35:01Earlier also this has happened and there was no controversy, there was no dispute. There are
35:06thousands and thousands and thousands of mosques and temples all over the country. There is no
35:11dispute. We pick up one point where there is some controversy and, you know, enlarge it to make it
35:18into a whole, the whole nation should be, bring the whole nation into a controversy, which is
35:24absolutely wrong, which should be rejected. You're saying it's a manufactured, you're saying it's a
35:31manufactured controversy, which is needless? It is manufactured because on ground, on ground,
35:37yes, on ground, it does not exist. I know, I am coming from the ground, I work on the ground.
35:42There is no dispute, there is no controversy. Muslims themselves have, earlier a speaker was
35:49saying that they should cooperate. They are cooperating more than cooperating. They have
35:52changed the time of the namaz. In Lucknow, in Kanpur, in many places, instead of having namaz
35:58at 1, 1.30, they are having it after 2 o'clock. But we also have to see that, forget about Muslims,
36:05to throw color on anybody, whether a Muslim or a Sikh or a Hindu or a woman,
36:11against their permission, is not correct. It is not civilized. It's not Hindu. It's not the
36:18Holi. We have seen, I was born in Chandni Chowk and I have celebrated Holi all my life.
36:23My, let me tell you one thing. My father said, he was a Maulana from Deoban, he said, we were not
36:29going out, we children were not going out when Holi was being played. He said, why are you sitting at
36:33home? Why don't you go out and play Holi? We said, Abba, rang gir jayega. He started laughing.
36:39He said, rang girne se kya, tumhara deen khatre mein padh jayega? Tumhara deen khatre mein tab
36:45padhega, jab tum padosi ke dukh mein sharik nahin hoge, uske khushi mein sharik nahin hoge.
36:49So you, aapko paap tab milta hai, jab aap padosi ke dukh mein aur uske sukh mein sharik nahin hote.
36:55That is what Islam is. But, of course, people who are going for prayers, they don't want their
37:02clothes to be dirtied. Okay, very nicely put. Vikram Singh, why then is the police being seen
37:09once again to not play? I mean, the charge which is made is that the police is seen to
37:14bat for one side, that firmans are issued, particularly in a state like Uttar Pradesh,
37:19only to one community. People have the right to celebrate Holi, whether you're Hindus or Muslims,
37:25with their permission. People have the right to practice Ramzan and pray, do their namaz.
37:34Why should the police get involved in a manner that they are seen to be doing it in a one-sided way?
37:42Rajdeep, good evening, gentlemen. A single swallow does not a spring make.
37:47I would rather not cherry pick a single statement as he is not the brand ambassador of the police
37:52department. There are hundreds of other police officers in the state who have displayed exemplary
37:58magnanimity and maturity. And we government servants are supposed, it is a matter of faith
38:04and that all appeals have to be religion neutral. The day I start speaking in the terms of Hindus,
38:10Muslims, High, Low, Pramark, Kshatriya, Shatun caste and Shatun tribe, then I have failed in
38:14my duty. And anybody who doesn't, well, he should be taken to task. I have no illusions in my mind.
38:20But the Sambal CEO exactly spoke in that language.
38:23Exactly, I was coming to that.
38:25Far from being pulled up, he was encouraged. The Chief Minister of Uttar Pradesh seemed
38:29to encourage him to speak that language.
38:32I knew you would be coming to that. There are two ways of taking it to it.
38:35There are interpretations that are given by political people that are given by professional
38:40professionals. I would say that we have Everesters in the IPS, UP Carter, Aparna Kumar. We have those
38:46who have done the advanced commando course, Aseem Arun, who is now a minister in the cabinet.
38:50But to say yes, but there was a proviso also in Yogi Ji that he is a wrestler and he has spoken.
38:57Therefore, I would say a DGP and the chief secretary are not just government,
39:00senior most government servants. They are also advisors to the cabinet and to the CM.
39:04And the course correction was there. And the DM of Sambal is on record to have said
39:10that in the future, all briefings will be given either by the DM or by the SP or those
39:15authorized by them. I would say I will not stop at what he said. I don't condone any loose cannon
39:20or any motor mouth. I repeat, I don't condone any loose cannon or any motor mouth. But then
39:26the fact that you spoke without the permission when the DM and the SP are there,
39:30also is a misdemeanor that should never go by default. There is a discipline.
39:35There's a code of conduct, which all the government, some more so in the police should
39:38subscribe to. And the day any police officer or any government servant speaks in terms of religion,
39:45whether there are 52 or whether they're true religion, it is the job of the police,
39:49to ensure peaceful celebration of the Friday namaz and the Holi festival. It has happened
39:54in the past. It will happen tomorrow and will happen in the future.
39:58I want to bring you Anand Kumar, while we hope that everything goes off peacefully and we're,
40:03you know, once the police is out there, there's hope that it will happen
40:07without any law and order disturbances. The general sense is something,
40:12hawa mein kuch badla hai. You know, Holi ke rang should be an occasion to celebrate
40:16the diversity of this country. That's the message that our politicians give. But on the ground,
40:22there are mischief mongers. There are extreme voices who pit almost Holi versus
40:27namaz. Why should we be pitting one festival against the other in this unique country called
40:33India? No, this is a new situation where we are trying to find differences and gaps in
40:44many ways. The idea of a Holi Jaloos is something very novel. I was born in Varanasi. I grew up in
40:53Varanasi. There was never this idea of Jaloos. Why this Jaloos? To assert your identity, to
41:00show your muscle strength, to prove that the government is at your command. Similarly,
41:08as Shai Siddiqui said, the namaz timing has been flexible. But it is also very strange that you
41:19cover the mosque so that some lumpon is not spraying colour. This is absolutely unacceptable.
41:28Mosque is a holy place. Temple is a holy place. And whatever is not allowed should not be allowed.
41:34It should not be overprotected by covering a mosque and asking people to stay home.
41:42This is a social life where certain code of conduct is accepted. Certain behaviour pattern
41:50is punishable. And that's how police should be engaged in. It is also a new situation where
41:58we are seeing that people are unhappy, afraid, apprehensive, out of no reason.
42:06Sambal is a place where something is already brewing, something is already boiling. And now
42:13you make Holi as an occasion, an excuse to create a problem. And then you connect Sambal with the
42:19whole of India. It's like another Godhra. Anand Kumar, you said to me that you said that when
42:28you grew up in Varanasi, there was nothing like a Holi procession, that you see it now as an
42:33assertion of identity. How was Holi celebrated in Varanasi traditionally? How for you is the
42:38real celebration of Holi? What does Holi really mean, a Holi celebration than Anand Kumar?
42:44See, Holi began in the night when Holika was born. And people will be distributing sweets
42:50and sharing some songs and other things. Next day morning, people will get up and then meet
42:57each other. First go to the neighbours and offer them some Abir, some colours. Then they'll have
43:05some kind of a community place where men and women will colour each other. In the university where I
43:12was a student for many, many years, people will meet the Vice-Chancellor, touch his feet. He'll
43:19offer sweets. You'll go to teachers' places in the afternoon. But the idea of a Holi Jaloos,
43:26never, never, never. Actually, in Varanasi, there was a local custom of...
43:31That's the point. Among Leela Das, as is being said, there was never a concept of a Holi procession.
43:35You see, what is happening now is there is an assertion of identity politics. It's almost as
43:41if Muslims have their Muharram procession, now we will have our Holi procession competition on the
43:47ground. Holi was a festival to celebrate, as is being suggested, in a manner where the entire
43:54community got involved. You don't need to assert it and pit one community against the other. It's
43:58not Holi versus Namaz. Actually, the kind of interpretation which we give to any event,
44:04it depends on the kind of value system which we carry at the background.
44:07So there can be a procession. In case there is a procession, so what's wrong in it?
44:11You know, in case in an arm wrestling, one person loses a hand and he keeps his hand loose,
44:17arm wrestling is finished. In fact, in case there is a procession on the Holi occasion of Holi,
44:21and some Muslims also come and they join and they say happy Holi to you, everything is diffused.
44:26So basically, conflicts are created first in the mind and then they are cascaded to the community.
44:31And then such interpretations come, there's a show of power and that now we are also there,
44:37if you are there, if you can have a procession, we can also have,
44:40now these are interpretations being given. So we can also give positive interpretation that,
44:44okay, they are having a Jaloos, congratulations, happy Holi to you.
44:49But the Jaloos cannot end up in a show of power in any form. We've seen, for example,
44:55deliberately at times, music being played just outside a place of worship,
44:59almost as if to suggest that, you know, we will get away with doing what we want.
45:04If God forbid, color is thrown on a place of worship, that surely is not what Holi is.
45:10Holi is not about throwing color on a place of worship, it's Gulal on each other. I think some
45:16of the interpretations, the way it's being practiced have changed. But I want to ask
45:20each one of you, starting with you, Shahid Siddiqui, what is your favorite Holi moment?
45:25You say you've celebrated Holi from your days when you grew up in Chandni Chowk,
45:29your favorite Holi moment?
45:34Yeah, just now I had my favorite Holi moment. I was at Uma Sharma's place where we had
45:41bridge ki Holi. The video I can play for you, the bridge dance, because that I have been doing for
45:47last more than three decades. I go and celebrate and I'm going back to over there. I have this
45:53color on my forehead. It does not endanger my religion at all. So you're very clear that there
45:59is nothing wrong. Would you encourage Muslims to join and celebrate Holi with their Hindu brothers
46:07and sisters? No, Muslims have always done it. Muslims have always done it. 700 years back,
46:14Amir Khuzro was playing Holi with Hazrat Nizamuddin. What else do you want? Muslims have
46:19been doing it all along. It is a manufactured idea that Muslims should come as if they have
46:25been opposing it. No, they are not opposing Holi at all. The only thing they are saying is,
46:29and that's not about Muslims. That's about anybody, any Indian. If you throw the colors,
46:34all sorts of rotten colors on anybody, on anybody, whether it's a Hindu or a Sikh or anybody,
46:40it is not correct. In my childhood, it was not done. If somebody said, please,
46:45that was not done. Okay, so you're saying do it with permission, allow people to celebrate.
46:51Every mosque is being targeted today in every festival. Okay, your point is taken. Vikram
46:56Singh, your favorite Holi memory. You've been a police officer. What's your favorite memory,
47:01Vikram Singh? Well, the first is the utmost decency and with the consent of the other
47:07party, whether he would like to have some kind of a token application of herbal gulal,
47:13not the paint, nothing abrasive and nothing abusive. Herbal gulal with the consent and a
47:19token application. We have a gentleman from Varanasi, the tradition was that you apply only
47:25next to the slipper of the Maharaj. Okay, the days of feudal power over, but you apply a small
47:30tilak with the consent of the other party and a token application with the consent. And if the
47:36ladies are there, take pains to ensure that it is zero touch. As I have in my, you see, I have
47:41that favorite, just one quick point, Rajdeep, there are processions, there are Holi ki toli,
47:46dadi kando ka jalus, this is by tradition. And also the festival register, every police station
47:50in the country has a document of all the processions and they're duly guarded in the
47:54front, in the middle, in the center, by plainclothesmen and those in uniform. Therefore,
47:59to say there are no processions, well, that is not actually correct because the historical fact
48:03says they have been going on and the hundred-year documentation shows there have been Holi
48:08processions historically. Okay. You know, there are dhol yatras, for example, also in states like
48:14Bengal. So there are processions, as you say, that do take place. But Professor Anand Kumar,
48:19your favorite Holi memory, away from all the noise and the politics that we see,
48:23what is your memory? What is your sense of Holi? What does Holi mean for you?
48:29Holi was a play, an opportunity of sharing sweets with neighbors and getting together
48:38for some singing and all in the morning hours and in the evening, having very nice clothes,
48:45visiting neighbors, visiting friends and that was it. And the idea of Holi was having a big
48:50spectrum, Ragdeepji. There was a very absurd kind of Holi in Kanpur, where you use acid and coal
48:57tar and everything for seven days. Everybody, Hindus, Muslims, everybody hated that practice.
49:03Similarly, there was Barsane ki Holi, where women were beating men with sticks and there
49:09was Holi in Banaras, where people coming together, gathering, no Jaloos.
49:17Okay, so you maintain that the idea of Jaloos is a new idea. I want to get a final word
49:23from you, Mahant. Your idea of Holi, sir, what is your favorite memory? Amogh Leela Das.
49:33Well, my favorite memory is when we used to play Holi and then we were all colored,
49:37irrespective of our religious backgrounds. And then after Holi, we all eat Gujiya playing cricket
49:43and nobody can recognize who is who. And that's real brotherhood, irrespective of whatever
49:49background we are coming from. And that used to be such a sweet part of Holi.
49:52Okay, I'm going to leave it there. I certainly have lots of my own favorite Holi memories being
49:59dunked with water. Happy Holi, everybody. I wish you all a very happy, peaceful and prosperous
50:05Holi. Happy Holi. Yes, I hope that Holi continues to celebrate the unique colors of this wonderful
50:11country of ours. Let's turn to our Get Real India story, where the Hyderabad cybercrime police have
50:16arrested two women journalists over an alleged defamatory video that was seen to target Telangana
50:21Chief Minister Rewan Treddy. The FIR was filed by a Congress leader citing social unrest concerns.
50:27The issue has now triggered a major political face-off in Telangana. Take a look.
50:37A provocative interview by a private YouTube channel's journalist, where the interviewee
50:43made abusive remarks against Chief Minister Rewan Treddy has triggered a political face-off
50:48in Telangana. The cybercrime police in Hyderabad arrested two journalists for circulating
50:55allegedly defamatory content against Chief Minister Rewan Treddy. The arrested journalists
51:01are P. Revathi, the managing director of online Telugu YouTube news channel,
51:07The Pulse and Bandi Sandhya, a reporter with the same digital channel.
51:13Revathi recorded and shared a video just ahead of her arrest.
51:25The Telangana Congress defended the arrest.
51:56PRS working president and former Telangana minister KT Rama Rao criticized the Congress
52:09government over the arrest of the journalists. He took a jibe at Rahul Gandhi asking
52:15if this was his
52:20Rajya Sabha member and constitutional expert Kapil Sibal
52:24condemned the arrest, calling it the result of a contagious disease
52:29called intolerance. The BJP too slammed the Rewan Treddy government.
52:55What happened to KCR will happen to Rewan as well.
53:01The Editors Guild of India has called upon the Telangana government to safeguard rights of
53:06journalists and their personal safety. The Editors Guild urged the Rewan Treddy government
53:13to ensure that any action against journalists follows due process of law and upholds the
53:20principles of freedom of expression and justice. With Abdul Basheer in Hyderabad, Bureau Report,
53:29India Today.
53:32Power of arrest must not be misused nor should our journalists freedoms. But the fact is,
53:38was due process followed by the Telangana government or was this an attempt to intimidate
53:45the journalists? Let's turn to our fact check segment. A video allegedly showing the demolition
53:50of a mosque in India has been widely shared online. Sharing this video and Twitter user said
53:55bulldozers in India are demolishing illegal mosques. India Today's fact check found that
54:00the viral video is actually from an amusement park in Indonesia. AI Sana.
54:07You are watching fact check segment where we bust fake news. A video allegedly showing the
54:11demolition of a mosque in India has been widely shared online. Sharing this video and X user wrote
54:16bulldozers in India demolish illegal mosques. India Today fact check found that the viral video
54:21is from an amusement park in Indonesia. Several people responded to the viral post and pointed
54:26out that the video was not from India but from Indonesia. Upon reverse searching its keyframes,
54:31we found several similar videos on Indonesian YouTube channels from March 2025.
54:36Many of these videos show a similar white and green structure being demolished.
54:40As per these YouTube videos, this video was from Hibisk Fantasy. Hibisk Fantasy is an amusement
54:46and theme park in Borgo, Indonesia. We compared the viral video with the videos from the amusement
54:51park in Indonesia and found many similarities between the demolished structures and the logo
54:55marked on the bulldozer. This proves that the viral video is from Indonesia. This fact check
55:01on viral fake news is done by India Today's team AFA. This is AI Sana signing off.
55:10Wish each of you a very happy Holi. Stay well, stay safe. Enjoy the celebrations and I'll leave
55:17you with a bit of my song. My favorite Holi song is a film from the 1970s called Zakmi.
55:23I'm not a good singer, but I'll tell you a few lines from the song as I leave you.
55:27Don't ask me to sing more than that. Enjoy that song. It's from a film called Zakmi.
55:44I must leave you there. Have a happy, safe, Holi weekend. Color is the color of life and
55:51remember one thing. Celebrate the diversity of this great country, but don't change your
55:57colors too often. That's for our politicians to move from one side to the other. That for
56:03another day. For now, happy Holi again. Bye for now.