The Jeremy Kyle Show 14th March 2013
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00:00On today's show, this is the second child who says you've been a terrible mother, and you apparently don't believe that at all.
00:07That's all lies.
00:08No, I'm not a terrible mother.
00:09Really?
00:09No.
00:10So what, John M thinks that you're mum of the year? Were you there for him?
00:13I don't care what John thinks.
00:13Were you there for him?
00:15Yes, I was there for him.
00:16Why did you abandon him then?
00:17Until he was 18 months when I put him in care.
00:19I'm talking about John M, the guy that you just abandoned so you could what? Have sex with somebody she once knew?
00:25I did not have sex with him. I was the proof I had sex with him.
00:28Why?
00:28Why?
00:29How many people are going to say you're a bad mother? Vera, you don't care about him.
00:37Mother Teresa, this guy hasn't seen you, and he wants answers.
00:42You came out, you attacked Vera.
00:44I don't fault that.
00:45No, it's your fault.
00:46No, it isn't.
00:47I don't know where I live.
00:48I don't know where I live.
00:49I don't know where I live.
00:50I don't know where I live.
00:51We're put into care at one.
00:53Did you have any contact with you in the 17 years before you found her?
00:56No.
00:56This woman, his mother, who didn't have anything to do with him for 18 years, on her very first meeting with him, gave him drugs, has done a runner from this studio already.
01:05Go away from me.
01:07Get him away from me.
01:08Maybe get him away from me.
01:09He's your son, love.
01:10I'm not hiding anything, right?
01:12I don't know where I live, Timmy.
01:15That's all on my show.
01:16It's next.
01:17I don't know where I live.
01:48Thank you, my friends.
02:00Good morning and a big, big welcome to the show.
02:02Now, we, of course, have got brand new Jeremy Kyle shows coming your way next week.
02:05But today, I'm taking a look back at some of the most memorable moments from the past year.
02:09Now, my first guest, Vera, appeared here with her nephew, John, to confront his mother.
02:14Vera told her she'd raised John since her ex-sister, Nora Lane, abandoned him at only 18 months of age.
02:20She wanted to confront Elaine and tell her to stay away from John.
02:23Big day for this family.
02:24Let's take a look at what happened on this very stage.
02:27Let's just lay out the people that are involved in this story.
02:31Your brother is Leslie.
02:33Yeah.
02:33We're going to, there's two Johns in this story.
02:35So, your nephew is John M.
02:37Yeah.
02:37Okay.
02:39Elaine is your brother's ex.
02:41Yes.
02:42And John M's mother.
02:43Yes.
02:44You have pretty harsh words to say for this lady.
02:46Tell us the story.
02:47Tell us what happened when he was a kid.
02:49When they were nippers, she went out one night.
02:53My brother was worried because she did come back.
02:55He thought something had happened to her.
02:56Yeah.
02:57And when I said, I'll go up and see if I can find her because I knew people were in town.
03:05And I went to see if he'd seen her.
03:07And he had.
03:07They were in bed together.
03:11Did she go back and tell your brother?
03:12Yes.
03:13And did their relationship end there and then?
03:14No.
03:15We forgive her and the lost name.
03:17And then a few months later, she just got the nippers running, right nippers.
03:22John weren't even crawling.
03:24And she got up and left.
03:25And subsequently, your brother brought this kid up and you helped a lot.
03:30You brought John M up for how much of his life?
03:34I've had him quite often.
03:36I had him for a while when she first went.
03:39You haven't seen this lady for how long?
03:41I've got 20 years or more.
03:43What did you at that time make of her?
03:45I mean, with all of these things happening, what was your thought about this lady?
03:50Well, to me, she's not a mother.
03:52To me, if you've got nippers, yes, not everyone can cope.
03:57I've had nippers from being young and I've brought mine up on my own.
04:00And I know it's hard and not everyone can cope.
04:03But you don't dump two kids, then go and have more kids.
04:08That should have told her, I can't cope so I don't have no more.
04:12That's what I feel anyway.
04:14John has had his problems, but you've been a permanent feature in his life.
04:20But he's turned out okay.
04:21What was his feelings about today, about this woman?
04:24What does he want?
04:25He wants the truth why she done what she did.
04:27Does he want a relationship with her?
04:29No.
04:29Do you worry that John, seeing his mum after all these years, that it could stir up lots
04:35of upset and emotion in him?
04:36Or do you think he's quite ready for this today?
04:38I think he's ready.
04:39He's rather nervous, but I think he's ready.
04:41How has it affected him being brought up?
04:43Not just by you, but not having a mother there.
04:46At first I think it did affect him, but then he got his step-mom and she's been lovely
04:52to him, so, and he calls her mum.
04:55And to me, you've got to earn the privilege to be a mum or a dad.
04:59Are you worried about seeing this lady?
05:01Yes, a bit, because I've seen her for years.
05:03But you think she could have done a hell of a lot more.
05:07Her view is that you don't know what you're talking about and really she doesn't quite
05:11understand where you've got an opinion.
05:13This is today about her and her son and that you're sticking your nose in.
05:16No, John's asked me to be here and I've, if any of my nippers, any me, me grandkids,
05:22me nephews, nieces, if I can help, I don't mind helping.
05:26I like you very much.
05:26What are you going to say to this lady?
05:27She's coming this way in just a tick.
05:28What are you going to say to her?
05:29Well, she needs to step up and say why.
05:32She's done what she's done.
05:33Acknowledge where she went wrong.
05:34All right, let's get her out.
05:35Let's hear her.
05:35So there are two sides.
05:36Elaine's on the show, guys.
05:41Don't lie to people about things.
05:48You don't know nothing what happened with John because when John was 18 months, he got
05:53put into care and it was me that lied into care because I was having race relationship
05:58problems.
05:59So don't lie to people about things.
06:02My brother took him out and I had him as well.
06:03No, he didn't know what took him out.
06:05So why did my brother have him then?
06:07The police took him into care.
06:09It was a cause that agreed for him to have him back.
06:13You were a lousy mother.
06:14No, I was not.
06:15So why were you saying that?
06:16I was not a lousy mother.
06:19I'm a lousy mother.
06:22What did you just do?
06:23What did you just do?
06:25What did you, excuse me, what did you just do?
06:28Well, you see what I just done?
06:29You never, ever do that on this show or you'll be out of this building, out of this town.
06:33And out of my face, you.
06:35Really?
06:35Why?
06:36You're going to do the same to me you just did to her?
06:39I gave you the chance to come out here and have your say, but I'll tell you what I'll do.
06:44Are you okay?
06:44Yeah, she's proved what she's like.
06:46Absolutely has she proved what she's like.
06:48Because you were going to come out, weren't you?
06:49And you were going to tell the world.
06:50Yeah, look how I was on the other one.
06:52I was all innocent to sat there and say.
06:55Really?
06:56Yeah, you've been here before.
06:58And shall I tell you something?
07:00So the audience know you for what you are.
07:02You've got a young.
07:02I don't give a f*** what they think about me.
07:05I don't give a f*** what anyone thinks about me.
07:07This is a woman.
07:08I admit I did only want girls.
07:10Maybe that's why I never felt close to him.
07:12But you know what?
07:13This isn't the first time you've been called a bad mother.
07:16Why don't you turn your head.
07:18I'm not a bad mother.
07:19And watch the last.
07:19Shut up.
07:20Why don't you watch what happened the last time one of your children was on this show?
07:25No, that was a load of f***.
07:27Ladies, what?
07:28Them telling the truth.
07:29No, tell them f***ing lies.
07:31This is the last time you were here.
07:33Watch this, ladies.
07:33It's unbelievable.
07:35You were always getting drunk.
07:36Oh, no.
07:37Smoking weed.
07:38You and your friends were always sitting in the living room smoking weed.
07:40You never looked after us.
07:41Yeah, I did used to have a drink.
07:42And I did used to have a joint every now and again.
07:44You had kids' responsibilities.
07:46You do the exact same thing.
07:47You neglected us.
07:49What was she?
07:50What sort of mother?
07:51Oh, she weren't even a mother.
07:54That's how bad it was.
07:55She wasn't even a mother.
07:56To be honest with you, I think they should just take our ovaries out.
07:59Because she don't deserve to be a mum.
08:00There's people that want kids and can look after kids.
08:03And then there's people like her that have kids and just can't do nothing.
08:07I would die if I heard a kid of mine say that.
08:09She never hit us.
08:10She never hit us, did she?
08:11She never hit us.
08:12Why am I still there now then, eh?
08:13Of course she did.
08:14Because you're scared of her, Shane.
08:16And you're a mummy's boy.
08:17You always have been.
08:18Really?
08:18And you're a daddy's girl, ain't you?
08:19So this is the second time you've been on this show and this boy's lying as well, is he?
08:25Or is it the fact that you're the worst mother that God ever created, eh?
08:28I'm sure he really is.
08:29That's why he stayed with me, ain't it?
08:31No, no, no, I'm talking about John M.
08:33The guy that you just abandoned so you could, what?
08:35Have sex with somebody she once knew?
08:37I did not have sex with him.
08:39I just didn't prove I had sex with him.
08:41Where's she?
08:42This is the second child who says you've been a terrible mother.
08:45And you apparently don't believe that at all.
08:47That's all lies.
08:48I'm not a terrible mother.
08:49Really?
08:50No.
08:50So what, John M. thinks that you're mum of the year?
08:52Were you there for him?
08:53I don't care what John thinks.
08:54Were you there for him?
08:55Yes, I was there for him.
08:56Why did you abandon him then?
08:57Until he was 18 months when I put him in care.
09:00Because I was going through a lot of problems with my relationship.
09:03And how many kids?
09:04So at 18 months, allegedly, you put John M. in care because you couldn't cope.
09:09We'll take that seriously.
09:09No, it wasn't because I couldn't cope.
09:11Since then, how many kids have you had?
09:14Has we got to do with you how many kids have had?
09:16Because you were having relationship problems.
09:18How many kids have you had?
09:20Has we got to do with you?
09:23Unbelievable.
09:23We'll talk to John about this.
09:25Who's John?
09:26My boyfriend.
09:27Oh, your boyfriend's here.
09:29What, the one who apparently, is this, is this the one who apparently has loads to tell me?
09:34Yeah.
09:35Really?
09:36You're feeling brave?
09:37He knows I'm a good mum.
09:38Really?
09:38Yeah, because that's why me and him's got a daughter.
09:41Really?
09:41Yeah, really.
09:42We'll deal with that later.
09:43Why don't you tell her what you think of her as a mother?
09:45Because this dignified lady sits on this show and you come out, right, and you think it's okay to attack her.
09:51That's what it's about, your son.
09:52Have a look.
09:53You interested or not?
09:53Steve, could you move a second look?
09:55Have a look.
09:56When was the last time you saw him?
09:59Pfft, ages ago, years ago.
10:02Vera, tell him what an amazing young man he is.
10:05He's lovely.
10:06He's turned into a nice young, he had his troubles when he was a teenager.
10:09Yeah.
10:10And he got over them and he's a lovely bloke.
10:14Why don't you tell her what you told me about what you think she is as a mother?
10:17Why don't you tell her the truth?
10:18I don't give a f*** what she thinks.
10:20Do you care what he thinks?
10:22I don't give a f*** what she thinks.
10:23You don't care what anybody thinks, do you?
10:25What about him?
10:26Why don't you run to your boyfriend?
10:28Because I'm sure he thinks you're a super mother.
10:30She brought your kid up.
10:31That is what this is about.
10:33Another one on this show who says that you were never around.
10:36And I f*** my John.
10:37Oh, you're going to get your John, are you?
10:39Yeah.
10:40What, your boyfriend to defend you?
10:43Yeah, me.
10:44Yeah, what are you going to do about it?
10:45What am I going to do about it?
10:47You didn't give out a f*** benefit of the doubt on the first programme.
10:50Why are you so angry?
10:51She's a good mother, is she?
10:53Yeah, she is a good mother.
10:54You've got a kid?
10:55Yeah.
10:56Where's your kid, people?
10:57Where's your kid?
10:59My kid's a f***.
11:00Why is that?
11:01Because you two together are useless parents.
11:05She has got kids everywhere who have never been with her.
11:09She's got five kids.
11:10Yeah, and where are they all?
11:12Two of them have been on this show.
11:13What about this one?
11:15It's about this boy.
11:16You're a f***ing father.
11:18And how many people are going to say you're a bad mother?
11:22Vera, you're a f***er.
11:23You don't care about him?
11:26Mother Teresa?
11:27Mother.
11:28Where the f***er is she?
11:29Looking after her offspring.
11:31She's a f***er.
11:32That's what she was doing.
11:33Why don't you ask him?
11:35Why don't you go and ask him?
11:36Eh?
11:37And she's such a good mother.
11:38She's such a good mother.
11:39She was pregnant at 13.
11:40You want to tell me that she's a good mother, yeah?
11:42You want to tell me that?
11:43She's a good f***er.
11:44Well, then why don't you stop swearing and go and ask him how good he was.
11:46How good she was.
11:47Go on.
11:48Why don't you go and ask?
11:49And you have a go at Vera, the woman who helped bring her up.
11:51And you, you have a go at me because what?
11:54I don't let her speak.
11:55Have a look at what she did when she came out on the show.
11:58She thinks it's all right.
11:59People like you make me sick to the stomach.
12:02You, all people like you, shouldn't be allowed to have children.
12:06Right after the break, my friends, we'll revisit the moment John finally confronted his mother
12:10after years and years of neglect.
12:12I'm right back.
12:13You have kids if you can't afford to pay for them because we live in a society that wipes
12:30people's backsides like you and it's a joke.
12:32It doesn't stop you having sex with four women, does it?
12:45Do you think he loves you when he's having sex with other women?
12:47Well, you slept with it.
12:48Yeah, well, he's f***ing anyway.
12:51Shame, he niched us just as much as in it.
12:56This guy is not worth it.
12:58You've got family and you've got friends and you need to aim higher than this kind.
13:01We're going to support you and work with you, okay?
13:02Okay.
13:03The longer you excuse it, he will carry on doing it.
13:07Why would you pick drink and drugs over your own flesh and blood?
13:11Go and read up what it means being a mother.
13:13It's about being truthful to your kid.
13:15If you are not drug free, you will never get another chance.
13:18And for the people who criticize this show, in a controlled environment, we're going to
13:21find out the truth for this kid.
13:23Change your life, he's worth it.
13:33Thank you very much for doing it.
13:34Welcome back.
13:35You join us today as we're looking back at some of the most unforgettable moments from
13:38the past year.
13:39Now, before the break, we saw Vera come face to face with ex-sister-in-law Elaine after
13:43she accused her of being a terrible mother.
13:45Let's find out what Elaine's son had to say when he finally confronted her.
13:48Take a look at this.
13:50He's the man in the middle.
13:51John M's on the show.
13:52Give him a round of applause.
13:53Sorry to see this.
14:03Are you okay?
14:03Yeah.
14:04What do you make of this lady?
14:05Yeah.
14:06Nice.
14:07Nice.
14:11It seemed to go off at several tangents.
14:13Vera comes out, your auntie, and explains what happened, that your brother, that she was
14:17caught in bed, she left you.
14:19What was it like growing up?
14:20Do you remember your mum?
14:21What were you told?
14:22You tell us.
14:22No, actually, I don't remember her at all, because she never brought me up, like.
14:28The first time I ever met her was when I was 16, turning on to 17.
14:32That was the first time I met her at all, like.
14:35What was this lady like to you growing up?
14:38Well, this lady, more mum than what she is.
14:42She's got my back all the time, like.
14:45She's there.
14:46She sat there so deeply.
14:46She's there for me all the time.
14:48That's why she's here with me now, because she's here to support me.
14:52She's willing to help me.
14:53When you saw your biological mother on this stage effing and jeffing and attacking Vera.
14:59I thought it was disgraceful, to be honest.
15:03Can I ask a question that a lot of people in this audience in a calm way would want to ask?
15:06Why on earth would you want anything from that lady?
15:09Well, I don't really want anything from her.
15:12All I want is the truth.
15:14Do you think that there's a chance that this is a relationship that could ever work, or is it more a case of you wanting to get those answers, because that will allow you to get on your life?
15:25The answers, I would say, because, and also to tell her to get out of my life.
15:32Well, apparently, just for your information, they've left the studio and they're in the corridor, but that doesn't district.
15:36Come on, we're going to do this.
15:37Are you all right there?
15:37Are you absolutely sure?
15:38You come with me, my friend.
15:39Are you all right?
15:40Yeah.
15:40He started on me as well.
15:42He's obviously the big man, isn't he?
15:43We'll give you those.
15:45The most important thing is that you get answers today.
15:47And I thought you laid it out very nicely when you saw her attacking, you know, Vera in that completely unfair way.
15:54I don't even know where they are, apparently.
15:56Oh, I'm being waved at.
15:57Have you calmed down yet, or what?
15:59It's not about you and me.
16:00It's about him and his mother.
16:02All right?
16:03Yes or no?
16:03By the way you've got in her face.
16:05Do me a favour.
16:06If you don't shut your mouth, right?
16:08Right?
16:08If it's about me and him, then, why is Vera interfering?
16:11Because Vera is there for me.
16:13I'm trying to tell you that this boy hasn't seen his mother in 20 years.
16:17No, no.
16:18She has that.
16:19You've told a lie.
16:21You're always lying, Eli.
16:22Always lying.
16:24You lie and lie and lie.
16:26That's all you do.
16:28That's what you do.
16:28I'm not being funny.
16:29I'm not being funny, right?
16:30You lie through your tits, right?
16:33My father.
16:34My father's better than you.
16:35My father is hell of a lot better than you.
16:39Yeah, that's why.
16:39It's probably toilets, innit?
16:41Oh, what?
16:42And what do you do for a living?
16:43At least he does something for a living.
16:45What do you do for a living?
16:47What do I do for a living?
16:48I used to be a carer, mate.
16:50What do you do now?
16:51And he's going back to being a carer.
16:52What do you do now?
16:53And I'm going back to be a carer.
16:54How long have you been on the dole for?
16:56What's it to you?
16:57I'm just asking you a question, mate.
16:58How long have you been on the dole for?
17:00What's it to you?
17:01How long have you been on the dole for?
17:02You can't answer that question, can you?
17:03I'm the reason you went on the dole for a living.
17:05And you're having a go at this kid who wants to speak to his mother.
17:08Yeah?
17:08I ain't stopping him from speaking to his mother.
17:10Yeah, you are.
17:10You're being aggressive and violent.
17:11Why are you doing that?
17:12The only reason why I'm being...
17:13I'm not being funny or nothing.
17:14I haven't got nothing to do with you.
17:16Like, this hasn't got nothing to do with you.
17:18Do you know what?
17:18Do you know what?
17:19Nora is that fat...
17:21Excuse me.
17:22She means more to me than you would ever be.
17:25What, do you think she is, mother?
17:26Reza?
17:27Oh, yeah, she is.
17:28One more.
17:29One more.
17:30And you are so out of this building, trust me.
17:32Do you think that she's done enough by him?
17:35No.
17:35Because that's what this is about.
17:36It's not about you trying to be the big man.
17:39It's about him.
17:40Do you know what?
17:40Ask...
17:40Do you know what?
17:41She has been a brilliant mother.
17:44No, she ain't.
17:44Ask him.
17:45What?
17:46I want him to...
17:47I'm not speaking to you.
17:47Do you mean...
17:48I'm not being funny.
17:48I'm not being funny.
17:49If she's being a brilliant mum, why haven't you met me?
17:52Because I've never met you.
17:53Why is it I've had five kids, not just two?
17:55That's it, Steve.
17:56Get him out of here.
17:56I'm not interested.
17:57I want you.
17:59Get lost.
18:01Whatever.
18:02Just get him out of my...
18:03Yeah, right.
18:04Vile human being.
18:05That's cool, that's cool.
18:06You and your mother.
18:07This is what this is about.
18:09This is about...
18:10Not you and your big boyfriend.
18:11This guy hasn't seen you.
18:13And he wants answers.
18:15And he's false at.
18:16You came out.
18:16You attacked Vera.
18:17I know he's false at.
18:18You're false.
18:19It's your fault.
18:19No, it isn't.
18:20How's it right?
18:20I don't know where I live.
18:21I don't know where I live.
18:21I don't know where I live.
18:23I don't know where I live with me.
18:24Just shut up a minute.
18:25Let me speak.
18:26I gave you two chances.
18:28What did you do?
18:28Blow them chances.
18:30How did you blow them?
18:31How?
18:31For what?
18:32You slagged my dad off.
18:34When?
18:35Well, when I talk to your dad, I speak to him on the market.
18:38Yeah.
18:39Only to get to me.
18:40Only to get to me.
18:42Yes, it is.
18:43It's only to get to me.
18:45Yes, it is.
18:46To get to me.
18:47I don't even talk about you when I speak to him.
18:50Yeah, right.
18:50Why don't you just seriously write?
18:52And I'm not being funny.
18:53The second time you blew it with me is when you threatened my partner to break up your legs.
18:58I haven't even spoken to your partner.
19:00Why are you?
19:01You didn't hold on the phone.
19:02No, I didn't.
19:04That's where you're wrong, matey.
19:06There's only one person that spoke to her.
19:08And I tell you, it definitely wasn't me.
19:10I don't know who it was, but I'm not saying you're guilty.
19:12Can I ask you a question, right?
19:15Can we just, just seriously a minute, right?
19:18Let's just bring this down a second, right?
19:20Look at me.
19:21One thing I do know is that when people are full of guilt, whatever they say, and just hear me out, right?
19:26They tend to shout and lash out.
19:29Now, taking aside super boyfriend, right?
19:31Here's the thing.
19:32He wants to know, away from your boyfriend and away from slagging the father and this lady,
19:38he wants to know why you, without shouting, haven't been in his life.
19:42Now, if you can't decently explain that and you're not bothered and you are happy to walk in the opposite direction
19:48as yet another child proves that you don't care, that is your business.
19:52But this is about you answering him and not being defensive.
19:55Yeah, but the end thing...
19:56I mean, if he wanted to know me, Jeremy, then he would have got in contact with me, too.
20:01Why did you tap her?
20:02Why did you tap Vera?
20:03Because of the lies she's saying.
20:05Lies?
20:05What happened?
20:06She's saying that you caught me in bed with your f***ing old man.
20:08Why are you swearing at f***ing?
20:10It's most probably true, Elaine.
20:11No, it is not.
20:12It's most probably is.
20:13She did not.
20:14Can't say that's how you did it for.
20:15Do you have any regrets?
20:17Do you have any regrets about how you treated this boy?
20:21I haven't treated him that bad.
20:22I haven't treated him as bad as he makes it out or anybody makes it out.
20:25I haven't seen him for 16 years.
20:29Listen to him.
20:30Elaine, I'm trying to get you to calmly listen.
20:34Just listen to him.
20:37She can't even do that, Jeremy.
20:38Can't tell her.
20:39She can't listen, she can't, you can't, you can't, you can't listen though, can you?
20:43You can't even answer questions.
20:45You can't even tell the truth though.
20:47Put some questions.
20:49Let's do the questions.
20:49What do you want to say to him?
20:50Go on.
20:50For one, when I, when I first went to yours, like, with my dad, and I asked you, asked you things, why haven't you been in my life and that, like, why didn't you tell the truth?
21:04Why can't you tell the truth?
21:05I didn't tell you.
21:05No, you didn't.
21:06I even told your sister why.
21:08Yeah.
21:09What is it?
21:10And she's forgiven me and forgot, forgot about it.
21:13You know why?
21:13Why can't you do the same?
21:15But, but, but, I'm not easy to forgive you at the moment.
21:18I've got to, at the moment, is it lessons?
21:19It's in the past.
21:20It's the time concern.
21:21That's dead and gone.
21:22That's why I say this every day.
21:24Listen, that's the point.
21:25I want to move on.
21:26You're not going to, oh my God.
21:29Right, here's the thing.
21:29Now, look at me.
21:30Here's the thing.
21:3318, 20, how many years ago it was, you put this guy in care, you had issues, you had problems.
21:37Yes?
21:37You are now sorted, you've got a new relationship.
21:41I'm not actually sorted, though, Jazza.
21:43You've moved on.
21:44The one thing every day on this damn show that people finally realise is, I'm delighted you're moving on.
21:51Stop.
21:52But the mess you've created and left, the unanswered questions, the lack of love, the fact that he doesn't feel like you were there for him, you have to answer those because he has been left.
22:04You're fine now, or getting there.
22:05I can't answer those questions.
22:06I've got a statement from your dad.
22:08Is it Leslie?
22:09Yeah.
22:10Elaine has never been there for John.
22:11She abandoned him at an early age and has never shown remorse.
22:14I left Elaine after I found out she cheated on me with another man whilst I was in the same house.
22:18Oh, wow, wonderful.
22:19My sister, Vera, has been more of a mother to John than Elaine has ever.
22:23John even had to move home because she was threatening his partner.
22:26I never stopped John from seeing his mum, but he simply chose not to.
22:29Elaine has harassed and threatened me on various occasions and even vandalised my car.
22:33In my opinion, she does not deserve to be a mother to John because all this woman does is think about herself.
22:40If I don't deserve to be a mother to John, Elaine, what's this all about?
22:42Him, not you.
22:43I don't even know why bother.
22:46What do you want from her?
22:46Well, why do you bother?
22:47Go the other way.
22:48I don't believe whatever people say when they shout and they scream that deep down inside there is not a different thing here.
23:01Look at me.
23:02Look at me.
23:04I am not doubting it was hard and it's been unfair and you feel that people have said things.
23:10But Elaine, look at me.
23:12There is a boy who, despite 20 years of, in his mind, injustice, is here.
23:18Now, if she is, please look at me.
23:21If Vera is what you say she is, coming out and lamping her ain't going to help.
23:24And your boyfriend effing and jeffing.
23:26If you just turn, that's what this is about.
23:28That's your boy.
23:29And your boy.
23:31I don't care.
23:32But I don't believe that.
23:34You don't, you don't care.
23:35You don't care about your boy.
23:37When you bring a child into the world, hear me out, who gets taken away from you for whatever reasons,
23:42he's going to have questions, she's going to have questions.
23:44If you could just, today, acknowledge that there are things that you've got wrong that he needs help with,
23:50we will help both of you.
23:52I don't believe that you're as bad as you give out.
23:55Now, after the break, we'll see what happened when Elaine decided to return to that stage there.
23:59I'm right back.
24:01Do you really think I wanted to get rid of my children?
24:04Tell him.
24:05I've never wanted to get rid of you.
24:07None of you.
24:08So why?
24:09I didn't have a choice, John.
24:11This woman, his mother, who didn't have anything to do with him for 18 years,
24:16on her very first meeting with him, gave him drugs, has done a runner from this studio already.
24:21I don't know.
24:22I don't know.
24:23I don't know.
24:55Thank you very much indeed. Welcome back.
24:57Today we're taking a look at some of the most unforgettable moments from the past year.
25:01And before the break, we left Elaine with her son, John, in the corridor.
25:04Let's see what happened when she returned to the stage.
25:06Take a look at this.
25:08Give them a round of applause. They're back.
25:10Don't sit back down. Don't sit back down.
25:12Can I get Graham, please, straight away?
25:16Graham's on the show, ladies and gentlemen.
25:17You all right?
25:25Right, great. Very quickly, because I'm going to cut to the chase.
25:27Gosh.
25:28Right?
25:28I don't disbelieve what you just said in the corridor.
25:34Do you acknowledge that he's had it not even hard?
25:40You weren't around for him, and that leaves a bad taste in his mouth.
25:44Do you acknowledge that?
25:46Say that to him. Look at him.
25:49Do you really think that I wanted to get rid of my children?
25:52Tell him.
25:53I've never wanted to get rid of you. None of you.
25:56So why?
25:57I didn't have a choice, John.
26:00If I ever got rid of your social services, we're going to take you anyway.
26:04I didn't have a choice.
26:07What you just said was very honest.
26:09Have you ever said sorry to him?
26:12That's what I don't know.
26:13Why don't you try it?
26:14I am sorry. I'm very sorry.
26:17I'm sorry that you had to go into care.
26:18But I did it for you.
26:21To protect you.
26:23You are an extraordinary young man, because many people, and don't tell us the wrong way, Elaine,
26:27would have run away, but you do want answers.
26:29You ain't going to get them overnight.
26:31Do you want to go through this process with this lady, or not?
26:35Well, I just want to know things, Jemmy.
26:39How can we do that, Graeme?
26:42Because that's not something that can happen like this, right?
26:44No, I mean, you both do have to sit down calmly and quietly, because you certainly have questions
26:49that you need answering.
26:51Yeah.
26:51It's not right now.
26:53It's not about building a relationship, okay?
26:55It really isn't about that.
26:57It's about you getting some answers, and then making a decision.
27:02Do I then want a relationship with my biological mother?
27:06But first and foremost, before you can make that decision, you need all of your questions answered.
27:11And it's about you, about whether you're prepared to do that.
27:15And I know it's really painful, and I know you feel that all the time I'm being challenged,
27:19and maybe that's why you get angry.
27:21But once he's got those answers, it may be able to move forward.
27:27Because you might have valid reasons for whatever action you took, okay?
27:32But it's for him to understand that.
27:33Are you both, will you both give us some time?
27:39Hello?
27:39Yeah.
27:40Will you?
27:40If she answers all my questions, then yeah.
27:43I saw a different person in the last five minutes, right?
27:46Hiding behind the boy, that's fine.
27:48But that's front.
27:49We all have front.
27:51Whether or not your kids come back to you, you are not going to be able to move on with
27:56your life.
27:56You talked about your problems.
27:57I think a lot of that is because you're stuck in the past, and there are questions you need
28:00answering, and I think there are things that you need to get past, and this might help
28:04that process as well.
28:05You might get the answers you want, you might not, but I think you should do it.
28:10Now, when Elaine and John left the stage, they went with Graham to begin that aftercare
28:13process.
28:14Let's take a quick look at what happened backstage.
28:20This is not going to be, I know, an easy situation.
28:24Why do you think your mum put you in care?
28:27Because that seems...
28:28Because I didn't think you loved me.
28:29You didn't care about me.
28:31The only person you cared about was yourself.
28:34Now, I want you to start with just one question, and then allow your mum the opportunity to
28:38answer that.
28:39Why did you leave me?
28:41It doesn't actually leave you.
28:44What happened?
28:45I went to see social services, and I asked them nicely to take them away.
28:50It was only voluntary care that they went into.
28:55Staying with this process, though, and keeping it really low level, okay?
28:58Because you're getting some answers right now.
29:03So here we are.
29:04I've got a couple of sex, really.
29:06Graham, what's been happening?
29:08It's working.
29:09It's working.
29:10We're keeping it very calm.
29:11I think what's really interesting is that this whole thing should have been sorted out ten
29:15years ago, and they did attempt to sort this situation out ten years ago.
29:20The relationship broke down at that point, and I think we can move it forward now.
29:25You gave birth to him, and whatever problems you've had, he deserves an explanation.
29:29If, after this, you don't feel that it's something that you want separately to go, that's fine.
29:34But we're just simply saying, why not take this opportunity?
29:38Talking in the same room is progress, okay?
29:43Talking in the same room without raised voices and anger being present is progress.
29:47Now, since then, I've been back in touch with Elaine and her son, John, and this is what
29:52they had to say.
29:52Elaine says, since the show, Jez, I've not heard from my son.
29:55I really wanted to make things work with him, but he just made no effort at all with
29:58me.
29:58Now, myself and my partner, John, are now stronger than ever, and despite the outcome
30:02with my son, we're pleased we came to the show.
30:04John says, I haven't had any contact with my mum since the show, Jez.
30:07I don't think we'll ever be able to resolve things because of a constant lying.
30:11I do feel, though, the show has helped me because I can now draw a line under that relationship.
30:16I've said it so many times, my friends, unfortunately, not every situation can be resolved, but I
30:20hope that John and his mother one day can repair their relationship in the future.
30:24And, of course, as ever, I wish them all the very best of luck.
30:27Now, you might remember my next guest, Tim, who came to the show to confront his mother,
30:31Mel, after she gave him up when he was just a year's age.
30:34Now, Tim managed to track her down when he was 18, which he later described as the biggest
30:38mistake of his life.
30:40He claimed she got him into drugs, was violent towards him, and was even responsible for getting
30:44him an ASBO.
30:46Take a look at this.
30:47Here's a heck of a story.
30:49It is, I, yeah.
30:50Did you ring the show?
30:51Yeah, I rang the show up.
30:53There's much noise behind, so that means your mother's kicking off already, but let's just
30:57hear why you're here.
30:59Let me just explain.
30:59This young man is 21 years of age.
31:01You were put into care at one.
31:02Why was that?
31:03What do you know?
31:04All I know is my mum said she'd left the cot drawdown and leg the side of the cot whilst
31:11I was in a baby and parent illness in Newcastle, and that's why I got took off them for the
31:18cot beans.
31:19Did she have any contact with you in the 17 years before you found her?
31:21Eh, no.
31:22No.
31:24Yeah, she said so.
31:24Unbelievable.
31:25Can I, that's unbelievable.
31:27Can I stop you there?
31:28This woman, right, his mother, who didn't have anything to do with him for 18 years, on
31:33her very first meeting with him, gave him drugs, has done a runner from this studio already.
31:38I ain't allowing that, love.
31:40You can cry who you want.
31:40Come here.
31:41Come with me now.
31:41Come.
31:42I'm not having that.
31:43Come with me now.
31:43Come on.
31:44What's she standing there crying for?
31:46Come on.
31:46Now.
31:47This way.
31:48This way.
31:49Come on.
31:51I haven't set this all up for her to do a runner.
31:53You came in for answers, didn't you?
31:54Yeah, I did, yeah.
31:55Yeah, we're going to get them as well.
31:59Just come with me, pal.
32:00Come in.
32:00Yeah, part is.
32:01I don't understand this.
32:02People come to this show and then they don't expect to hear the truth and then they do a runner.
32:06What's all this noise about?
32:07I swear to God's bagging my baby's never move.
32:10I did not get him on drugs.
32:12I didn't get him on drugs.
32:13What have you done a runner for already?
32:15Get him away from me.
32:16Get him away from me.
32:17What do you mean get him away from you?
32:18It's your son, love.
32:20What do you mean get him away from you?
32:22What is the matter?
32:24What is the matter?
32:25Explain to me why you've done a runner from the studio straight away.
32:28Because all he does is lie.
32:30I never got you on drugs, Timmy.
32:32No, never right.
32:33I'll tell you what, right.
32:34Give me lies.
32:35You said, you know, Jeremy, right.
32:36I'm begging you, right.
32:37Give me lies.
32:38I'd like him to tell his story and you to tell yours.
32:41He's nothing but a born liar.
32:43Oh, well, you're a good mother because you gave him up when he was one year of age and he wants answers.
32:46I gave him up and it was six weeks old.
32:48I didn't give him up.
32:49He knows why he got poor in care.
32:51He knows all this.
32:52I told you from day one, right.
32:54OK, so in the 17 years he was in care, did you go and see him?
32:57Did you go and see him?
32:58Did you go and see him?
32:58Yes, I did.
32:58And me daughter.
32:59Yes, I did.
33:01Yes, I did.
33:01This is the daughter, Ellen, who wants nothing to do with you.
33:04Yes, I went to...
33:05So there are actually questions to answer with respect.
33:08Why is lying?
33:09I did not, Gerram.
33:10I haven't even heard inside.
33:12Inside my son's shoes.
33:14At 11-year-old, my son, I would...
33:16Your 11-year-old sister...
33:19Can I ask you a question?
33:20Can I ask you a question?
33:22Why would you not let him tell his story and then come out and tell yours?
33:25Because he just lies, Gerram.
33:26Then why don't you wait for him to lie, hang himself and come out and tell your bit?
33:29What do you want me to do, right, when he's dead?
33:31Because from my point of view and everybody else watching this,
33:33the fact you've done a runner with the first bit of criticism says you're trying to hide something.
33:36No, I'm not hiding anything, Craig.
33:38OK, so he was put into care of...
33:40You're not going to lie to me.
33:41He's your son.
33:42I know he's my son.
33:42First time you met him three years ago, let me fall square in the face.
33:45Did you share drugs with him?
33:46No, I didn't.
33:47Not at all?
33:48No, I didn't.
33:49He's a liar.
33:50Anyone would say that.
33:50Why would he say that?
33:51Because he's a liar.
33:51Why would he come here three years down the line and say...
33:54Because that's all he's done, Jeremy Rice.
33:55He's your boy!
33:56And I love him.
33:57Well, you didn't show much love, did you?
33:59Jeremy, I love my son to be a trace, but I can't take any more from him.
34:03He needs answers.
34:04Well, he's had answers.
34:06Well, obviously not a laugh, which is why he's here.
34:08Yes, it isn't because this is why he's here.
34:10Ask him.
34:11This is not because you're a liar to me.
34:14I want answers to why you don't have answers from me.
34:18He said that you signed me away.
34:20No, I never signed you away.
34:21No, I would never, ever, ever sign my...
34:23He's told that.
34:24What's he supposed to think?
34:25What are we supposed to think?
34:26When we hear from him, we check that, and your daughter says, and I quote,
34:29I don't want anything to do with her or let her anywhere near my child.
34:32All she's ever done is be a bad role model and be more interested in drink and sex and drugs.
34:36No, I don't think so.
34:37Then why don't you come out there and put your side?
34:39I'm not, because I'm not going to be shown up, because I haven't done anything wrong.
34:44It's just me and we're all undercoming here.
34:45I don't care.
34:46You don't care what he thinks.
34:47You don't care what your daughter thinks.
34:49I meet him on the right, why spit in my face?
34:51I'm not condoning that.
34:53I am not.
34:54Have you ever spat in her face?
34:55Yes, he did twice.
34:56Well, that's disgusting, and I wouldn't condone it, but I haven't heard that, because you've done one.
34:59Now, the point about this show is we hear his side, we hear your side, and in a calm way, we sort it out.
35:05So, rather than standing in this dimly lit corridor with 57 people, we're going to go on that stage, we're going to get this out, and we're going to do it.
35:11I'm not going on the stage.
35:13We'll do it here, then.
35:14I'm not going on the stage.
35:15We'll calm it down, then, but he and you are going to talk.
35:18That's what we do.
35:19I don't want to talk to him.
35:20I can't do anything about what Tim thinks.
35:23Tim's got an opinion.
35:24Tim, at this moment, right, can't do anything about what you think.
35:27You keep rushing off around this building.
35:28The truth of the matter is, look at me, he has questions to ask, you have questions to ask.
35:33Well, obviously, in a calm way.
35:35I've already done it to him.
35:37Look at me.
35:38If he felt you'd answer those questions, right, then he wouldn't be here.
35:43Now, we are wasting precious time that you two...
35:45Can you get him here, please?
35:47We are wasting precious time if you two cannot, in a civil way, get this done.
35:52Now, all I'm asking you to do, look at me, is listen to what this boy says,
35:57answer it in the right way, because if you do one, then everybody...
36:02I look guilty and I'm not too guilty, bye.
36:04Then if you're not, come back with me.
36:06Do it in a controlled, calm way.
36:08You'll get your chance.
36:09Tim, you say, look at me.
36:10I haven't got an opinion yet.
36:12Neither of the audience.
36:13All they've seen is he's opened his gob and you've done one.
36:15And I'm being honest with you, the minute you do a run, what is that?
36:18If you're watching this...
36:18It makes me look guilty and I'm not.
36:19Come in here and be proper about this.
36:21Come on, and you come as well and we're going to do this decently,
36:23because I don't see the point in running off if we're not going to get answers to this.
36:27Tim, you are going to have to have your say,
36:29and Mel, you are going to have to have your say.
36:31Now, after the break, we find out exactly what happened
36:33when Mel confronted Tim about the shocking accusations
36:36that he had made about her.
36:38I'm right back.
36:39I've never, ever put words in your tea.
36:41Never.
36:41You have.
36:42Not happened to me.
36:43And you don't offend the family's tea as well.
36:44No, never.
36:45He says that you get into rages and you want to throw a knife at him
36:48and he ducks and hit a wall behind him.
36:49Oh, God.
36:50True or false?
36:51You did, though, didn't you?
36:51I threw a knife, yeah, but it didn't hit him.
37:04Thank you very much, Lee.
37:05Welcome back.
37:05Now, today we've been looking back at some of the more memorable moments
37:08from the past year before brand new JK shows start next week, my friends.
37:12And before the break, we saw Tim accused his mother
37:14of turning him into a life of drugs.
37:17Let's see what happened when Mel had her say.
37:20All I want to know is the truth of why I got took into care
37:23because I've had three stories now
37:25and I don't know which one to believe,
37:28so I can't believe any of them if I've heard three stories.
37:30Right.
37:31I couldn't cope, son.
37:33So did you sign me?
37:34No, I never signed you.
37:35I would never sign me.
37:35I'd walk over, I'd call for you.
37:37Did you get him visiting?
37:37Yes, I did.
37:38Did you get him visiting between the ages of one to eight?
37:39I looked for him.
37:40I looked for him with a detective.
37:42He says that he only found out that he was adopted at the age of 18.
37:45Right, don't shout, don't scream, don't do a run-up.
37:47He said that he found you on Facebook
37:49and the first time that you met, you offered him drugs.
37:51No, I didn't.
37:52Do you take drugs?
37:53No, I don't.
37:55We both did, you know it.
37:57In the past.
37:57And he's admitted that he took them that day.
37:59I said in the past we did.
38:00If you did on that day, right, just hear me out.
38:03Whether you care a jot about anybody,
38:05I'm not bothered about these people,
38:06I'm bothered about him and you.
38:07If you did, the only way we're going to move this forward
38:10is if you're...
38:10I never got him on drugs.
38:12I swear to you.
38:12The first day you met him, did you take drugs?
38:14No, I didn't.
38:15I never touched drugs with him.
38:17He says, um,
38:19she would sometimes spike my drink.
38:22No.
38:22Would you mix it in the tea?
38:24No.
38:24What?
38:25No.
38:25I've never ever, ever done that to my son.
38:28You have some whiz in the tea?
38:29No, I wouldn't.
38:30Why don't you even look at him?
38:32I've never, ever put whiz in your tea.
38:34Never.
38:34You have?
38:34Not happened to me.
38:35And you'll offend the family's tea as well?
38:37No, never.
38:38You have?
38:38Not happened to me.
38:38He says that you get into rages
38:39and you once threw a knife at him
38:40and he ducked and hit a wall behind him.
38:42Oh, God.
38:43True or false?
38:43You did, Lord, didn't you?
38:44I threw a knife, yeah.
38:45But it didn't hit him.
38:47Oh, well, that's all right, then.
38:48I wasn't meant to hit him, neither.
38:49He was stood there.
38:49Did you hear that sentence?
38:51I threw a knife, but it didn't hit him.
38:52Yeah, right.
38:52He stood there and he was calling me.
38:54And the cow went...
38:55I'm not condoning anything.
38:56I'm trying to get you both to get this out
38:58and deal with it.
38:58And you played...
38:58What are you shouting at me for?
38:59Because you're not being honest.
39:01I am being honest with you.
39:02You did take drugs in that first day, didn't you?
39:03No, I didn't.
39:04Why didn't you do a drugs test of that sort this morning?
39:06Because I wanted to do...
39:07Have you taken drugs ever?
39:08Yes, I have in the past.
39:10Whiz.
39:10And?
39:11That's it.
39:12And up to what?
39:12When did you give up?
39:14I gave it up three and a half a month ago.
39:16So you were taking Whiz when you met him?
39:18No, not when I met him.
39:19I wasn't.
39:19I mean, you were on drugs when you met him.
39:21I'm going to tell you something else as well,
39:22if we're going to be absolutely honest.
39:24Look at me.
39:24You know when you get interviewed
39:25before the Jeremy Kyle show
39:26and they write down so that we know
39:28what you said and we get it right?
39:29You said in my quote,
39:30it's in my ear right now,
39:31we would smoke cannabis and take Whiz together.
39:33That's what you told my research
39:35as it's printed from your mouth, not his.
39:37Yes or no?
39:39That's all I'm trying to say.
39:40Yeah, but I never got him on it.
39:42Forget that.
39:43You and he did drugs together.
39:46Why can't we do this out here?
39:48I'm not forcing you.
39:50Because I know what he did.
39:52You say that you've always, always thought about it.
39:53I love him.
39:54I'd want to go back home for my son.
39:56Tell him, not me.
39:56You know that.
39:57I know that.
39:58What's he done to your house?
39:59Because she made some accusations.
40:00He was drunk.
40:00He was drunk.
40:01And this is the truth.
40:02He was absolutely mortal.
40:03I was in the bath.
40:05My little girl was in the front room.
40:06How much your little girl?
40:07Eleven.
40:08He started bringing on the windows.
40:11He started kicking my jaws.
40:13So I went out.
40:14I said, pack it in.
40:15Go away.
40:16And then he spat my face twice and grabbed me.
40:18I'm sure.
40:19No, it's not.
40:20Well, I'm going to tell you something now.
40:21I'm going to turn it around for a reason.
40:23You spat in my face.
40:23You spat in my face.
40:24Hello.
40:24I have read a letter from the 11-year-old which verifies absolutely everything your mother
40:29is saying.
40:29You spat in my face.
40:29I am being as straight to you as I am to her.
40:32The only way this will work is if we are totally honest and open with each other.
40:36You spat in my face.
40:38That's why your dad come out.
40:39I'm not saying I didn't go wrong there because I did.
40:40You spit in her face.
40:41Yeah, he did.
40:42I did.
40:42Did you find cocaine in the 11-year-old shoes?
40:44I didn't spit back out your face.
40:45Did you find your face?
40:46I did not spit out your face to me.
40:48You're lying.
40:49I've come here.
40:49You haven't even come out there properly.
40:51I've come here.
40:52I've shown myself up.
40:53I will take a lie detector.
40:54Yeah, we will.
40:54I'm not having it.
40:55Are you on your whiz now?
40:56No, I'm not.
40:57Which is why you're on your high horse?
40:58Because I'm not.
40:59Because of the lies you don't tell.
41:00It's just what you like when you're on your whiz.
41:01I'm not on it.
41:01I've took a drugs test to me.
41:03Well, we'll tell you what to say.
41:03Well, we will, won't we?
41:05And we'll find out we're a liar.
41:06I'm going to tell you both something
41:08because this sort of conversation
41:09is exactly what you have to do.
41:11This is what we need.
41:12She took a drugs test.
41:13What did she just say?
41:14Come on whiz.
41:15She took a drugs test, John.
41:15Yeah, what did you say that she was going to be on?
41:17Whiz?
41:18I'm not.
41:18Well, let me tell you something.
41:19Your mother was totally clear on the drugs test today.
41:22Now, Ellen is relevant
41:23because you've said,
41:24and she said to us,
41:25she blames you for turning her daughter against her.
41:27You do, don't you?
41:28Yeah, I don't.
41:30Well, I don't.
41:31I've never seen my grandparent again.
41:33And it's not even born.
41:34You're playing with it's life.
41:35It's not playing with it's life.
41:36Ellen says,
41:36Tim and I got back in touch with our mother three years ago.
41:39Unfortunately, it wasn't what I expected to find.
41:41Can I just read to you what she said?
41:43Looking back,
41:43the best thing my mum ever did was to give us away.
41:46I'm pregnant.
41:47I don't at this moment want her to have anything to do with my child.
41:49She has no right to be a grandmother.
41:51No, I don't.
41:51All she cares about is money for drugs.
41:53No.
41:54She even tried to make Tim fake a heart condition
41:56so that she could get more benefits.
41:58No.
41:59She said that Tim has taken off her
42:01because she left the side.
42:02Tim was taken off her
42:03because she left the side of a cot open,
42:05which is a load of rubbish.
42:06She's a bad role model
42:08and I frankly do not want her in my life
42:10or around my kids.
42:11Now, you need to have the opportunity
42:13to answer that.
42:14I never smoked a drink at all.
42:16No, I never, Timmy.
42:17No, I never.
42:18What do you think about what your daughter said?
42:20It's a load of rubbish.
42:21But why would they both lie?
42:23Because I'm trying to be as fair as possible.
42:24Because I don't get on with her.
42:26Why didn't you get on with her?
42:26Because we both clash on with that.
42:30But she sees a mother, right?
42:31Okay, maybe not now
42:32and you cleared the drugs test
42:33and I'll make that point
42:34but she sees a woman
42:35who put her into care
42:37who seemingly picked drink over and drugs over her.
42:39I don't drink.
42:40The fact is
42:42is she not being a responsible person right now
42:44and saying I don't want that around my kids?
42:46She says you're not a role model.
42:47I'm not a role model, right?
42:48I don't expect to be a role model, right?
42:50But the lies.
42:52I've never, ever drank.
42:54And I know I do with you.
42:54Is the truth that you're actually as bad as each other?
42:57No.
42:57No, but I'm well-yieved.
42:59You are not, Timmy.
43:01I'll do anything.
43:01I'll tell you what, right?
43:02You've got to ask, Paul.
43:03Off you.
43:04No, no, no, no.
43:05You've got to ask.
43:06Sticking up for you.
43:07No.
43:07In your family, yes.
43:08You blame her for getting your mum for getting this aspo.
43:10What was this aspo?
43:12It was to keep up the town.
43:13No, it was to keep up the f***ing because they called it a street riot.
43:17It wasn't like...
43:18It wasn't a riot.
43:19It was a lot of trouble.
43:20Have you ever had a relationship that isn't based on drugs or insulting each other?
43:23Do you know what, right?
43:23We were really, really close.
43:25When?
43:26When we first met.
43:27Two days or something, wasn't it?
43:27No.
43:28We were locked because I used to go to the hospital.
43:30Yeah, you were too overpowering.
43:32You were there all the time.
43:33All the time.
43:34Isn't it true that the first day you met your mother after three and a half years you moved in with her?
43:37Yeah.
43:38Yes.
43:38That was too quick.
43:39It was too quick.
43:40Do you think you both expected too much of each other?
43:42Yeah.
43:43Do you think you tried too hard and you had your judge...
43:45Yeah.
43:45Do you not think that in that instance when you've not been around for 18 years, you have expectations, you have guilt.
43:51Whatever you want to say before you jump...
43:52I've got no guilt.
43:54Sorry?
43:55I haven't got guilt.
43:56I think you should have guilt.
43:57Why?
43:57I mean, because I think you should.
43:59The only guilt I've got is not having you.
44:02That's the only guilt I have.
44:03Well, there's more stuff you should be guilty.
44:04Can you look yourself in the mirror and say you did enough to get them back?
44:06Yes, I can.
44:07But you were still taking drugs?
44:09I tried to stop.
44:11But if you were drug free, do you think you would have seen the world in a different way?
44:14I'm being completely serious and I'm not having a go and I'm asking you a relevant question.
44:17Yeah, I would.
44:18I'm saying if you'd shown more strength and got him back sooner or tried, might this have been a...
44:24I did try.
44:25Enough?
44:26Yeah, I did.
44:26Tell him not me.
44:27I've got an investigator to look for you, Jimmy.
44:29But you just said to me a minute ago that you could have stopped the drugs earlier and seen things all different.
44:33Could have.
44:34Could have, yeah.
44:34But then you're not much better because you were taking drugs before your mum came into your life.
44:38Yeah.
44:38And you can be one of those people who sits there and says, oh, I'm my mother, my upbringing.
44:43I've had plenty of people on this stage who've had worse upbringings than you who aren't on drugs.
44:46The point is this, people.
44:47The only way forward, right?
44:50I don't care if you don't like this, but this is relevant and you have to listen.
44:53You've changed.
44:54You're clean.
44:54You're life sorted.
44:55But the one thing I have to do every day is say to you, there's a mess that happened because of some of the things that you did.
45:02And the only way to get over that is to talk it through and not get defensive and not do a runner.
45:07And basically, as he's done with the spitting and you've done with the knife, is front it out and go, yeah, I was in this place.
45:13I shouldn't have done that, but I did.
45:15That's what you two need to do.
45:17That's what we do after the show with him.
45:19But you will get nowhere unless you have this ability, both of you, to get off your high horses and stop making excuses.
45:26Do you two right now have the ability, with our help, to draw a line in the sand and say, we want to see if there's something that we can salvage?
45:35And if you've done that and there isn't, what is it, half an hour, an hour a week, have you wasted that?
45:39No, because you'll know.
45:40Because the way this is right now, the screaming, the shouting, the threats, the violence, that's not normal, is it?
45:47Is it?
45:47No, it's not normal at all.
45:48But it's been like that for most of the time when I'm old.
45:51Do you want to...
45:51Are you doing it again?
45:52Well, it hasn't.
45:53Do you want to try and make this better?
45:56You don't want to try and...
45:57No, I meant that I was open right, but now it's not.
45:59Because he said I was a bad mother to all...
46:02And I'm not.
46:02Yeah, to both the kids.
46:04Do you want to have this come...
46:05To look after themselves, the kids.
46:06Your son's come here attempting to do that.
46:08So you're going to walk away and never see your son again.
46:11And your daughter and your grandchild.
46:13Yeah, I am.
46:14Well, I'm happy with that.
46:15Because that's what I can make to do.
46:17Because I'm not doing this for the rest of my life.
46:18You come here to show me up.
46:19I didn't.
46:20You did.
46:20I've not come to show you up.
46:21I needed support with people.
46:22I think you've shown yourself up.
46:24She really has.
46:25I mean, I've shown myself...
46:26In his mind, you gave him away.
46:28And 18 years later, whatever happened, happened.
46:30He has a right to be angry, fear rejected, and want to ask questions.
46:33He needs an understanding, not me, him.
46:35I don't care what he wants.
46:37Really?
46:37She's never cared, Mia.
46:38This happens all the time.
46:40Well, then why'd you waste your time?
46:41Because the one thing I promised years ago on this show, right?
46:43I'm not going to sit here and beg you to go into aftercare.
46:46If you can't be a mother, then go and do your...
46:47It's not that I can't.
46:48Well, quite patently, you can't.
46:49I'm what you're shouting in my face.
46:51Because you're annoying me now, because that's your son.
46:52You're annoying me.
46:53Really?
46:53Yeah, you do.
46:54You're going to start on me now, are you?
46:55No.
46:55That's your son.
46:56Deal with him.
46:57Go away.
46:58Oh, you are going on stage now.
46:59No, not on stage.
46:59Oh, right.
47:00You're going another way.
47:01Well, guess what?
47:02I'm not chasing you, okay?
47:03Because I'm more interested in him.
47:05Let her go.
47:05Thank you, brah.
47:06You don't have to be sorry about anything.
47:09All I would say is this, right?
47:11All I would say is this.
47:12Here's the thing.
47:13Graham's here as well.
47:14When I started this show and people would say, like, that story, I would...
47:19I want to know.
47:20I used to say to him, why would he want to know?
47:22And he would say to me, wouldn't you, that's his mother and he needs closure.
47:25Yeah.
47:25I'm being honest.
47:26That's closure.
47:26Are you going to bang your head against a brick wall for the rest of your life or are you going to get on with your life?
47:29Get on with it now, yeah.
47:30Now, I've been back in touch with Tim and Mel, and this is what they told us.
47:34Mel says, Jez, when I came to the show, I wanted to repair my relationship with Tim, but he threw it in my face.
47:39I feel like he lied to you, Jez, and has caused me nothing but trouble since.
47:42I do not want anything to do with him ever again.
47:45And Tim says, Jez, since the show, my mother has only caused more problems for me.
47:49I have completely shut her out of my life.
47:51I don't want to see her again.
47:52I've moved away, and I'm getting on with my own life.
47:56Sadly, it's a fact of life.
47:57Not every relationship can be saved, and it's good to hear, in their own ways, they are moving on with their lives.
48:02And I, of course, wish them the best of luck for the future.
48:04Don't forget to tune in next week, my friends.
48:06Brand new shows from 9.25, but for now, I am for this morning out of time.
48:10Thanks for watching.
48:10Take care.
48:11Bye-bye for now.
48:11APPLAUSE
48:39Bye-bye for now.