During a Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing prior to the Congressional recess, Sen. Pete Ricketts (R-NE) questioned nominees about the Vatican's international ties, and US competition with China.
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00:00Chairman, right now, our adversaries are hard at work to expand their influence in every region.
00:07The Holy See is no exception. In 2018, the Vatican signed a provisional agreement to accept bishops
00:13appointed by Communist China, not the Vatican. Pope Francis has categorized the Vatican-China
00:21deal as diplomacy in the art of what's possible. I categorize this as being very dangerous.
00:26It sets a precedent for future relations with an adversarial nation. Xi Jinping has given the
00:33green light to construct state-approved, state-controlled Catholic churches. This has
00:40severe implications for Catholics globally. Additionally, I fear this encouraged Communist
00:45China in its persecution of religious minorities and provides moral legitimacy for a repressive
00:51regime. In October, the Vatican just extended that agreement for the third time for four more
00:57years, defying requests from the first Trump administration to end that agreement. Mr. Birch,
01:03do you agree that the agreement represents a dangerous level of cooperation between the Catholic
01:09Church and Communist China? Well, thank you, Senator. Again, thank you for that kind introduction
01:14at the beginning. I agree that the relationship between the Holy See and China is of immense importance
01:23to the United States. As you point out, they did sign a provisional agreement in 2018 that they then
01:30renewed in 2024 that is primarily concerned with the appointment of bishops. This agreement is secret,
01:38so we do not know the contents of this agreement. Because it is restricted to only the appointment of
01:47bishops, I think it's important for the Holy See to maintain a posture of pressure and of applying
01:57pressure to the Chinese government around their human rights abuses, particularly their persecution of
02:02religious minorities, including Catholics. When it comes to the question of the appointment of bishops,
02:07I would encourage the Holy See, as the United States Ambassador, if I'm confirmed, to resist the idea
02:13that a foreign government has any role whatsoever in choosing the leadership of a private religious
02:18institution. I do not believe the Church should cede or surrender to any government, China or otherwise,
02:25the selection of their bishops. And I would hope and work with the Holy See to present that and to
02:30make that case, assist in that case with the Chinese. The other piece of this is as important with
02:37respect to China. The Holy See maintains diplomatic relations with Taiwan. It is one of only 12 states
02:44to do so, and it is the only European state to maintain diplomatic relations with Taiwan.
02:49I understand this to be extremely important because, of course, China's ambitions with Taiwan
02:57will likely be tempered by the posture of the rest of the world. And the Holy See, in maintaining this
03:05relationship with Taiwan, I think, will serve as a point of hesitation and resistance, given the Holy
03:11See's moral authority and moral respect and global influence around the world. And I will insist,
03:17as the United States ambassador, if I'm confirmed, the Holy See maintain that strong relationship with
03:22Taiwan.
03:23Thank you, Mr. Birch. One of the things I'd want to also get back to a little bit of talking about the
03:27aid, because you mentioned that the Catholic Church is responsible for aid being distributed
03:32around the world. And I think it's one of the partners that works with the United States government.
03:35Isn't that right? Through Catholic Relief Services in Caritas?
03:38That's correct.
03:39Yeah. And so, again, having been a prior donor to Catholic Relief Services, you mentioned how
03:45effective they are. I think their administrative and overhead costs are less than 5% typically.
03:50Is that your understanding?
03:52That is my understanding, yes.
03:53And so when the State Department is reviewing some of the ways that we're providing our foreign aid,
03:58some of the things, and maybe this is where the ranking member and I need to sit down and
04:03kind of go over the facts, but some of the stuff has been referenced as transgender operas in
04:08Peru, I believe, also voter turnout in India, DEI programs, and other programs. My guess would be,
04:17and maybe you're more familiar, that's why I'm asking, that when it comes to the Catholic Church,
04:22what CRS does, what Caritas does, they're focusing primarily on the type of aid that is life-saving.
04:28It's not involved with transgender promotion. It's not involved in voter turnout. It's not involved in
04:34DEI. Would that be your understanding of the kind of aid that the Catholic Church, the CRS, and Caritas does?
04:40That is my understanding. It's primarily focused on humanitarian aid, like disaster relief in Miramar,
04:47for example, which I understand that grant was recently reauthorized. And then there's human
04:51services side, which of course involves a lot of different things that at times can or cannot be in
04:57the United States interest. To the ranking member's question, I think this is where it becomes difficult
05:03because you have to make choices as the United States. Can we continue to fund any and all of
05:09these programs, or do we have to be selective? And if we're going to be selective, what are the criteria
05:14we're going to use? And I fully support the President and the Secretary making sure that the
05:18dollars we spend, the money that the taxpayers pay into the federal government, are aligned with the
05:24United States interests, and will make us safer, stronger, and more prosperous. And so by getting
05:29to the point of the aid, it would seem that the Catholic Church's interest in providing aid really
05:36does align more with the types of aid of this administration with regard to those life-saving
05:40services. Does that seem accurate? I would agree. I think the Catholic Church can be one of the best
05:44partners of the United States. Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Senator Scott.
05:50Chairman. Thank you, Chairman. First, congratulations to each of you.