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00:00Manson is a songbook. You're playing songs that resonate with a wide variety of us and it's a
00:06different approach to playing the music. I'm thinking about what I'm doing playing Manson
00:10songs. I was not thinking about what I was doing playing zombie songs. I also was fully engaged
00:15with the audience in people's faces. I was singing along with them. It was just a completely
00:21different experience. Rock, metal, frog, and everything in between. Welcome to this episode
00:28of Talkin' Rock with Meltdown. Don't forget to follow the audio-only Talkin' Rock
00:32podcast on all podcast platforms. And now it's time for today's conversation. Here's
00:38Meltdown. Peggy, good to see you. How's things, man? Nice, man. How are you? Good. Getting
00:44ready to fire up the tour here. Coming through Michigan, playing a couple stops
00:48with Marilyn Manson this week. You ready for tour? I think so. Yeah. It's, I don't
00:57know. We're, we're, we're pretty, pretty well rehearsed at this point. And yeah, should
01:02be, should be good. It's always a fun stop up there. It's a, that's a rock and roll
01:07state. Always has been. So. Yeah. You've had some great shows up here in the past. And
01:12I know that the Manson show is sold out here in Detroit coming up on Sunday. So that should
01:17be jam-packed with people hanging off the rafters. Yeah. We're excited. It'd be great.
01:22Yeah. What's the difference between playing on stage with Manson versus Rob or is it all
01:27kind of the same? No, they're extraordinarily different. Um, my, I, my, I've talked about
01:34this before, but my role on stage with Rob was very much a, that of an entertainer, you
01:41know, we rehearsed so much that musically, we didn't really have to think about what we
01:47were doing. And it was about engaging with the audience and bringing the songs to life
01:52and bringing the show to life and the character of the theme of the whole thing. Manson is
01:58a song book and you're playing a song book. You're playing songs that, you know, resonate
02:05with a wide variety of us. And, um, they, you know, it's just a different, it's a different
02:13show. It's a different experience and it's a different approach to playing the music.
02:18I'm thinking about what I'm doing, playing Manson songs. I was not thinking about what
02:23I was doing, playing zombie songs. I was thinking about what the next change is, or, you know,
02:31I'm, I'm also was fully engaged with the audience. I was in people's faces. I was singing along
02:39with them. It was, it was just a completely different experience. Yeah. Um, yeah, never
02:44having been on stage or done what you've done, obviously in the past, uh, the, the, the choreography
02:49between both the shows is different as well. Right. I mean, you don't want to be in certain
02:53in front of certain screens or when there's pyro going off or anything like that. Right.
02:59Yeah. Pyro was a pyro was something you needed to pay attention to for sure. Yeah. James
03:04Hetfield will tell you all about that. You know, and honestly, after doing it, I've been
03:08in some intense bands and, um, that were live that were intense live bands. Amen being
03:15one, you know, a long time ago. So having done that for, and all through the nineties and bands
03:23no one ever, you know, will know of, um, it's nice to play songs at this point and not have
03:33to, I, as much as I enjoyed being the cheerleader and the entertainer, it's nice to be a musician
03:39at this point and, and focus on the parts and playing well with the band and the energy of
03:48that. It's a much, one's not better than the other. They're just completely different.
03:54It's a different approach to performing music. And at this, at, at almost 50 and having done
04:02play, I've been playing music since I was 15 years old, like playing gigs. It's just
04:09nice. It's well-timed part of it. Part of whatever is a, to be of a segue, I guess, but
04:18you know, yeah. I was talking to a Tom hunting from, uh, Exodus the other day and he was talking
04:23about the incestual nature of some of the bands, like from his area and his era and stuff like
04:27that. And it's kind of the same thing, you know, with you and John five and Manson and
04:30zombie and maybe even Aussie in there as well.
04:33Yeah. Very strange. Right. Um, you know, I remember being out with a man in Europe and
04:43when John left Manson in 2003 or whatever that was. And I remember there being a, I remember
04:54there being talk then about who, who was going to be the guitar player that replaced John and
04:59the band and somebody approached me about it at one point. You don't even remember the
05:04circumstances of it, but I thought that that's crazy. Like who would, who that's, and I just
05:10seen the golden age show at Donington, a minute played with them. And, um, so it's, it's incestuous,
05:17but it's also just small town ish. It's been the same knuckleheads, you know, in Tom's case,
05:25you know, he's right. Like that, that region of musicians, they've all, you know, you know,
05:32I'm sure somebody slept with somebody's sister at some point, you know, small town.
05:38Yeah. I didn't want to say that. So, so you, you switch off from guitar to bass and all this
05:43of when does that happen? Um, I didn't, I didn't play bass in a band until I joined Rob's band.
05:49In fact, I turned gigs down playing bass. I just didn't have any interest. Um, I've always
05:54been a guitar player. I've always thought like a guitar player. Um, I have a weird series
06:01of influences. I play and I, I, I'm just kind of all over the map. Um, but I've, I'd never,
06:08it's funny, even in, even in Rob's band, just the structure of that music, the bass almost always
06:18followed the guitar. Like that was just the core. That was just the sound from white zombie that had
06:26carried into how those songs were arranged. So it was kind of like, I was still a guitar player.
06:32It was just lower, you know? So it, this, and again, man, the, where it differs is Manson's music
06:40is, is, uh, you know, a lot of the bass parts that, that Twiggy wrote, um, they're bass parts.
06:47They're not, they're not following the guitar. The guitar is fucking in outer space, in outer space.
06:53The bass is holding it down. And it's just, it's again, it's, that's where the gig differs,
06:58I guess is it's just in, in, in the composition of the music, even it's, it's, it's a different
07:03approach to, to bass. So having playing bass for 20 years now, I actually feel like I'm playing the
07:11bass. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I never thought about that before you mentioned it, but yeah, it does
07:16like white zombie. So it does kind of follow along with the guitar. And it's, it's funny because,
07:21you know, zombie and, uh, and, uh, Manson have played here many times. And just off the top of my head,
07:26there was a few instances here, obviously that, that you know about where the Manson had blowups
07:31on stage and whatnot. I remember watching Rob, I think the time that we may have met, Rob walked
07:35out on the side of the stage to watch a little known band called Greta Van Fleet play. And they
07:40were just starting out and there was a huge buzz about those guys. So you've had some really
07:44killer shows here in Michigan. In fact, my first zombie recording, no, that's not true.
07:51The first thing I did was a song for a Punisher movie, um, called war. It was called war zone.
07:58The set, the first full length record I played on was a record we recorded at pine knob called
08:04zombie live. And that was, we did it there because obviously it was the best crowd in the country
08:12for a live record. I mean, we couldn't think of a better place to do it. So like, I remember Scott
08:17Humphrey and the producers came out and had a truck and we recorded the show and we were super
08:23tight. And, um, yeah. So to your point of having some good shows there, we've done live albums
08:32there because of that. So, yeah.
08:35Yeah. I think God smack recorded live record there. There's been a couple others as well.
08:38Uh, there's something about this, uh, town, like ACDC is playing here on Wednesday. It's like,
08:42they don't really play, you know, during the week in certain places, but I guess in Detroit,
08:46you can sell out Ford field on a Wednesday, you go play.
08:48That's that's something to do. Yeah.
08:52You guys are playing here Sunday. Like I was mentioned, Hey, if you want to join me earlier
08:55in the day, I'm walking a thousand steps across the street at Comerica park. It's for charity.
09:00If you want to join.
09:01Oh, how cool. How cool.
09:03That's good for you and stuff. So we'll probably do that and then maybe head over and see you
09:07guys. But, uh, so, you know, John five is from here and he wanted me to ask you about,
09:12um, uh, let's see John five. Oh, the, the legend of old sock neck.
09:16John, John five is the only, the only red blooded man. I know that, that has successfully worn a,
09:26the sock is a choker. Um, uh, he accessorizes like no one else. Um, you know, we're all going
09:36to remember him, uh, when he goes to his great reward for his guitar playing, but I'm going to
09:42remember him as someone who could accessorize like a motherfucker. Have you, have you been
09:47over to see his kiss collection? You know, I, I've watched it get pieced together just in the lobby
09:54of the, of the, of the lounge of the tour bus over the last 20 years. And, um, you have to really love
10:03something. I, there's a, I love weird niche things, you know, too, but what he, where he's operating
10:14with that is on another level and some of the stuff in there, like, I would be surprised if
10:24kiss even knew some of that stuff existed, like, and it's all legitimate. Like it's real, like it's
10:31crazy, but to know the rocks to turn over, to find that stuff, like it's, that's a whole nother game,
10:38my friend. And he is, you know, John five's kiss collection cannot be messed with. Are you, uh,
10:47where you went when you were on tour and stuff and he would get like something or whatever,
10:50would he come in and like show it off, like show and tell to everybody or. Yeah. Cause it was always
10:54like some, you know, there was always like some dude in a weird vintage bootleg, you know, you know,
11:04Mexican kiss shirt that was impossible to find standing in the hallway. And you'd be like,
11:10Oh, that must be John's friend. You know, he, he found, he found the teal one or whatever it was,
11:18you know, he found the, you know, Oh, I have all, but the purple one. And he, the guy, that guy had
11:23found the purple one. Um, so yeah, I, it's, it's been, it's been something to watch it come together.
11:29And you know, what a cool thing. If you, if you, if you, to put the time and energy into cataloging
11:36something like that, that's not something that's ever going to happen in our lifetimes ever again,
11:42that what that band did. Yeah. Like that happened that with the Beatles and it happened with kiss
11:51from a merchandising standpoint. Yeah. Pretty crazy. Is that what is the kiss? Was that your gateway to
11:58rock and roll? It was a big one. Yeah. My bro, I had an older brother, have an older brother and he,
12:04um, that was his band. Okay. And he was a drummer and I walked into the room. I remember being very,
12:11very little and seeing Jean on the wall behind a massive drum kit and just thinking like, what the
12:18hell is going on in here? And it wasn't until like, I always thought it was cool. My brother would
12:24show me videos. And I remember that day. I remember he like, he came home from work or
12:32whatever. And he was like, Hey man, sit down. I got something to tell you. And I was like,
12:37Oh shit. Did grandpa die? You know, like what happened? And he's like, I don't know how to say
12:44this man. Kiss took their makeup off. And I remember being like, no, like, and I didn't
12:56even understand the magnitude of it then. But, uh, yeah, it was a big deal. It's a big deal.
13:02It's almost like, Hey, I got something to tell you. Metallica cut their hair.
13:07The hair, the haircut heard around the world. Yeah. I've, I've had a couple of those. Um,
13:14but I think, you know, kiss really clicked for me at such a weird time. I found the home videos,
13:20like the kiss exposed, extreme closeup kiss confidential, those home videos they put out.
13:27Yeah. And I watched those things religiously. And I, and that's really where,
13:32especially when they started sharing some of their home recordings and stuff like with them filming
13:38on the road where you really saw what a gigantic arena band looked like backstage. And it was
13:46fascinating to me. And that was like around, I remember when revenge came out, I was like,
13:52Oh man, there's still a really good band. These are great record. Yeah. It's a fantastic record and
13:59great songs, great production. They both have great moments. You know, everybody has a great
14:05moment on that record. And I was like, this is, you know, makeup or no makeup. There's still a really
14:13ripping band. This is, this is really cool music. And then when the reunion tour came, you know,
14:19when they did the reunion tour in 96 and I could finally see them, I was at, that was at the height of
14:24my fandom actually for them. So that I was in my, I was in heaven when, with that show. So
14:30another tour that started here. Yeah, that's, that's, that's right. Like famously started there
14:37because there's footage of that show. Yep. Um, and it's been cool too, like through John,
14:44you know, Peter came around, uh, and saw us a bunch with zombie and we played, we got on stage one night
14:51in Jersey did God of thunder with Peter with two, two drum kits, which was super cool.
14:57And, um, uh, Peter's got it. Peter's sitting on a slamming record himself. Yeah. So I'm really,
15:05I'm really psyched for him. Uh, I know it's a record he's wanted to make for a long time and he,
15:10he wrangled a lot of the, a lot of the troops and everyone got behind it and it, it, it rocks,
15:16man. I'm really, I'm really psyched for him. Yeah. Five is on that. And, uh, Billy Sheehan and old
15:22Buffalo boy. I, I recorded my first demo tapes to get on the radio back in the stone age with the
15:27singer of Talos. So I don't know if you remember Talos. Yeah, of course, of course. Wow. A lot of
15:32connections, but Hey, you just mentioned that, you know, you collect a niche stuff. Uh, what kind of
15:37stuff do you got? Do you got like the, the old monsters or something? What do you have?
15:40Yeah. I got, I have, um, yeah, I've got a, I've got a, I've got some, some, you know,
15:47I guess it's pretty staple guy growing up in the eighties stuff, but like I, I, uh, I've lived
15:53through some natural disasters, but one of the things that survived is like some star Wars figures
15:59and, you know, childhood stuff like that. But the thing that I've probably got the most of
16:03is t-shirts. I have the, the John five kiss collection of t-shirts. Um, and at one point
16:14it was two storages. It was too much. I've, I've had to start thinking, thinning it out,
16:18but I've, I have the first jaws shirt from 19 set that I had in 1977 when I was, when I was two,
16:27I still have it. Like for some reason, those things have survived all of the chaos in my life.
16:35I've lived through floods and, you know, hurricanes and all kinds of stupid shit. And in my t-shirt
16:41collection, I think I have, it's, it's well over a thousand at this point, but it, I've started
16:49cataloging it. And several years ago when I got into wardrobe design for,
16:57people like Alice and, um, some other bands, I wound up with a lot of like weird one-off sample
17:05things that were demoed and made for people. So I, it, the collection really runs the gamut from like
17:10my work in, in wardrobe and fashion stuff. Me as a concert goer, me as a, as a toddler, like it's,
17:19you know, it, I don't know of what use is it. I don't know yet. It may just be a really great
17:27reference book for people who design t-shirts like me. Um, but, um, out, yeah, outside of that,
17:35it's pretty worthless. You know, I love talking to guys like you that, um, you know, that, you know,
17:40I'm a, I'm a few years older than you, but we all grew up kind of in the same era and stuff.
17:44And you just mentioned kiss and, you know, and he toured with zombie and I, with Manson and whatnot.
17:48And then you talked about, you know, Alice Cooper, what was it like to work with, uh, with Alice Cooper?
17:53I mean, obviously probably another childhood hero of yours.
17:56Al. Yeah. I was so into, I was so into music. I had such a, uh, I knew every word of Fiddler
18:05on the Roof. I knew show tunes. I, in like 1987, I got super into Quincy Jones.
18:15So it like, I, I studied Quincy Jones records. I loved Megadeth. I love punk rock. I love gospel
18:25music. I love country music. I loved everything. I had no prejudice whatsoever, but when I saw
18:31Alice Cooper, when I was 14, it changed everything. And that, that was the moment where I was like,
18:41well, I have to figure out how to be a part of this. I was so inspired. And I remember the next
18:51day after the show, I went to the mall and I started buying the early records. I started,
18:56I started at like pretties for you. I went like early, early, early. And as I could afford it,
19:03I started collecting all the, all the records. And by the time I was like 16, I knew more about Alice
19:10Cooper than I knew about myself. And, you know, he, at that point too, he was very open about like
19:18his sobriety and his faith and all of these things. And he was such a great role model for a kid who
19:23really could have gone off the rails in high school. And Dave Mustaine was another, a great example too,
19:30because at the time he was sober and he was very talkative about it. And I was a huge Megadeth fan.
19:35And those two guys were my, those were my superheroes. So I had such great role models
19:42through high school. So to be able to have anything to do with either one of them ever
19:47in the rest of my life is, was such a, such a unique experience and a unique blessing. Alice and I
19:56have, I've, like I've mentioned earlier, I did a lot of wardrobe for him and his band over the years.
20:05Uh, my team designed all of his merch for several tours. Um, we've written music together. We
20:11released a Halloween song. We haven't, and because of that Halloween song, we actually went and did a
20:16whole record that never came out. Um, it's basically mixed sitting in a ball and it rips.
20:26And we had to wait, wait, wait, wait, what, what year was that? And who's on that album?
20:30Like, um, it was two, it was a Halloween song.
20:37Early 2000s, right?
20:39No, it was like 20. I don't know. It's all running together for me. I have to pull it up. The,
20:45it was around the, whenever keeping Halloween alive came out, it was the following year.
20:49So basically we recorded that song. That was a, that was the weirdest thing ever. I was,
20:57I remember flying home from, uh, being in Texas and I got home and I had this idea.
21:06Alice has never had a Halloween song. So I, I emailed him and I said, Hey, you never,
21:11you never did an official Halloween song. He's like, you know what? You're right.
21:15Let's put something together. So we did. And two days later, we were tracking the song
21:22in the studio. And the, in the four days after that, it was on iTunes. It was the
21:27craziest thing we've, I I've ever done. It came together so fast. I called, um, two friends of
21:35mine that I knew could knock it out on drums and guitar. And we went in and cut the song super fast.
21:41Alice flew in saying it flew home. It was, it was crazy. So a few months later it kind of came after
21:50it had been out. Um, they approached me about just doing some more. And so for a few months we went out
21:57and just met up and wrote songs and recorded it at home. And, um, it's not having knowing Alice
22:09Cooper music as much as I do. I really liked the record. It's really honest. What was cool to see
22:17is that there's not a lot of, it's still written from an Alice character standpoint, but it, it,
22:27it's very real. He's talking about things that really, he really wanted to talk about.
22:33And some of it's veiled in comedy and some of it's veiled in satire, you know, like he does,
22:37he's such a fantastic lyric writer. I mean, he's one of the, he's one of the greatest living
22:42lyric writers that we've got and always has been, I think. Um, but it was cool to see him go,
22:50you know, what really pisses me off this? And he would write about it and watch him do it.
22:56And I was just like, God, man, how you can connect your heart to your hand and get it out like that
23:03was really something to witness. So he's got my money, uh, whenever he does anything, I'm a fan.
23:10One of these days we'll get that record out. Every time we see each other, we go, Oh, we got to get
23:14that record out. Um, you know, and I've since run into, I've said, it was really, it was me and him
23:20and an engineer. That was it. There was only three people in the room. And, um, it, so would that made it
23:27untainted. And what was funny was at the time his band was Damon Johnson, Carrie Kelly, Chuck, Eric
23:41Singer, all slamming players. And all those guys had amazing songs. And I, at one point reached out
23:49to them and I'm like, Hey, what do all you guys have? And they all sit like dozens of songs, some that he
23:56had sung on that they had recorded on the road and God bless. He has always curated a band of
24:02extreme talent. Yeah. Like everybody gave me songs. And I was like, Holy shit, man. It's like, it's
24:10like the, the, you know, super friends or something. It was like, everybody had a skill. So he he's
24:18always surrounded himself with amazing people. And, you know, yeah, maybe it's all bottled up inside
24:23them because they're playing all these Alice Cooper classics every single night. It's like,
24:26you know, maybe it just inspires them to do some other stuff when they're not on the stage.
24:31For sure. You know, they, as they say, you know, if you put good things in, you get good things out.
24:36Right. And, and that's just great rock and roll. It's well-written, well-crafted, well-produced
24:41music and tested the test of time. Yeah, no doubt. And it's funny. You mentioned that you, you know,
24:46Alice is a 14 year old kid and you were in so inspired. I was about 14 and I was watching the Halloween
24:52show from right here in Detroit while I grew up in Western New York and, and who would have thunk
24:57that, you know, 11 years later, I'd be coming here to start my career in riff and 29 and a half
25:01years, almost to the day I'm still here. It's kind of crazy. Wow. Isn't it crazy? I it's that's again,
25:08another great example of how you can kind of will things into existence. If you really,
25:12if you really want to, you just don't get it. Well, when I, when I knew I was talking to you,
25:18I had to reach out to your friend, Ash. And so she gave me a bunch of questions.
25:22Actually more than I thought she was going to be. All right. Are you ready for this?
25:28I don't think so, but go ahead. All right. Which character would you play in Rocky horror?
25:34She knows me really well. I would be Frank and further that's on the book. I would, I would,
25:40I would cut my hair and do some sit-ups for Frank and further. Yeah, there you go.
25:44So let's see. Favorite quote from Quackbusters.
25:50There's too many. If you don't know Quackbusters, you're really, you've really just, you've really
25:57fucked up. Quackbusters is an eighties compilation of Looney Tunes cartoons in the form of Ghostbusters.
26:07So they took classic Looney Tunes cartoons and they threaded them together with this new narrative
26:13and they get, there's some new animation in there. And if it's one of those things, if you know,
26:19then you know, but it is, it is an hour and something of solid Looney Tunes gold. And that was,
26:27Ash is actually one of the only other people that I've ever met that has remembers or was
26:33equally as obsessed with that videotape. So for no other reasons, other than the Hacksons
26:41existing for two albums, it was worth it because I found the other person that likes that Looney
26:47Tunes movie. There you go. It was only worth it for that. Then it was fine. I'm fine with it.
26:53All right, let's see here. What band were you the most sick of her playing on the, in the,
26:57in the tour, on the, in the truck? I don't know. She's actually a,
27:03she's actually a pretty good DJ. I can't, I can't pick on her too much. I think she probably
27:09got tired of like my, you know, I'm a, I'm a, I'm a Goo Goo Dolls fan from like junior high school.
27:22And I love the early, like the Metal Blade records. Yeah. In fact, I've always wanted to like,
27:28I've always wanted to like get in a time machine and go back and be in that band.
27:34So she probably, I think I probably drove her crazy with my early Goo Goo Dolls or
27:39I don't know. Yeah. We, we, we, we both meet up on Huey Lewis and the News. We both share that.
27:47So there was a, there was a lot of Huey going on on that tour.
27:50Yeah. Growing up in Buffalo, I knew a lot about the Goo Goo Dolls. I worked with Robbie and then
27:54I remember Johnny walked in one day and I accidentally had played Name and it wasn't
27:58even released as a single yet. And he kind of gave me this look. He's like, thanks man. Like,
28:03you know, like I had nothing to do with it becoming a hit, but he was definitely not impressed that I
28:07played it on accident. Wow. That's funny. What a funny story. But I, I, I remember like I'm from
28:16Houston originally and they came through and they tried to play a couple of shows. And I remember the
28:20show's getting canceled. It was like five of us had bought tickets and finally got to see him. And,
28:27and, you know, with 20 of our, 20 of our closest friends. And then when that song came out,
28:34it was the next time I saw him, they were in an arena with Bush, no doubt, everything changed.
28:42Everything changed. They, uh, they, they played a place in Buffalo called the Continental all the time.
28:48Oh, I've played the Continental. I love that. Robbie worked there, didn't he?
28:51Yeah, he did. Yeah. We was a barber or something. I think, uh, Johnny Chow may have even worked there.
28:56You know, Chow. Yep. That's right. That's right. He did. I didn't realize you were from Buffalo.
29:01That's funny. That's one of my favorite cities. Yeah. I, well, like I said, I moved here in 1995,
29:06so I guess you can actually call me a Detroiter. And I even have my Detroit D that, you know,
29:10I got tattooed on my arm, but you're Detroit now. Yeah. So, uh, she also wanted me to ask you,
29:16what is the thing? Hmm. With capital letters, the thing.
29:25If I told people what the thing was, I would destroy that business. I mean,
29:33if you've ever driven down across the country, I tend through New Mexico and Arizona, and you've
29:40seen the billboards for the thing, you have to stop and see the thing exit 45 or whatever it is.
29:48Don't miss the thing. If I, but if I reveal that here, you'd kill them. Yeah. I'm going to ruin
29:56Christmas for those guys. They're not going to sell t-shirts or shot glasses or anything. It's over.
30:01We don't want to do that. So I can't do that. But we,
30:04Ash and I stopped and we saw the thing and I got to tell you it's, it's a thing.
30:13Now I'm curious. I may have to Google that later, but, uh, Hey, you, you did that. Uh, you did that.
30:17Are you still doing the mini series? The, uh, the, the, uh, the monsters and music and stuff.
30:22No, uh, metal and monsters. No, no. Um,
30:26that was great. The couple episodes I saw. And it's so funny because like,
30:29I was telling somebody about this, it has this certain feel and a certain vibe. You know, I grew
30:33up in the eighties, you know, like I was saying, and I saw a nightmare before, you know, I, I saw
30:38the, a Freddie and, and, and, and Halloween in the theaters with my friends, I saw a trick-or-treat
30:42in the theater. I saw all those movies in the theaters when they first came out. And it just kind
30:47of like, it just encapsulates this feeling watching, watching your series. That, that it was,
30:53that was, that was the feeling we were trying to bottle and sell. Yeah, exactly what that was.
30:59So I'm glad that read. Um, yeah, I'm, you know, I'm the same kid growing up with the same things
31:06and I miss it. I miss the simplicity of, oh, the new Friday the 13th is coming out. You know,
31:15let's all go see it and talk about it Monday morning. I miss the unity that came with
31:20celebrating the product that is corporate media. I mean, it's basically what it was, right? But I
31:30miss it. I miss the hangout. I miss the, I, I don't miss the mall, but I miss the mall.
31:38You know what I mean? I miss, I miss that. Like that. I mean, I guess we still all do it. Did
31:45everybody watch white Lotus? I guess it's still the same thing, but when you're a kid and you have
31:52that, that moment that you can bond with the other kids at school or whatever in your neighborhood and
31:58Oh, the new, whatever records out the new Metallica records out. And then like, we all would rally
32:05around a thing and talk about it for a minute and absorb it and pick on it. And, but whatever,
32:12we were talking about it, right? It brought us together. And I miss that. And that's what the
32:17spirit of that show was. That spirit of that show was, let's get back to that. Even if it's just for
32:21an hour, you know, let's, let's talk to Kirk, but let's not, let's, we don't have to talk about
32:29Metallica. Let's talk about like what his favorite movies are and why let's get under the hood of
32:33that. It was about those kinds of conversations. You know, why, how great a band is carcass and how
32:41we're not talking about it. You know, like it was, it was such a cool opportunity to be able to shed
32:47light on things that I've been able to celebrate my whole life. And that my like-minded producers
32:53were, were, were so into that was such a labor of love that show. Um, I know, I know I'm probably
33:01going to regret this question because we could probably go on and on and on, but, uh, what was
33:04the last great horror movie you saw? Like the, the, the newer ones I just saw sinners, for example,
33:09last week. Oh, I hear that's really good. It was, it was good. It was actually kind of weird. It was
33:13kind of like a, a period piece for like the first hour. And all of a sudden it just escalated
33:18quickly.
33:20That's what I, that's what I hear. Um, I'm excited to see that because it looks, it, it, it seems
33:26like such a, something from left field. Um, you know, it's kind of, I guess it's kind of a
33:31tried answer because it was an award winner. But when I saw the substance last year, I thought,
33:37oh boy, you know, what a challenging, what a challenging topic for a horror film.
33:46And it was done in such an over the top
33:50gore fest kind of way to make its point that I thought, and it was, and I, I remember walking out
34:01of the theater and I said, if, if, if, uh, to me more doesn't get nominated for something, then
34:06there, there's just no justice in the world. Like I remember thinking what it, what a brave
34:11performance that was from her and to get behind the message of that movie, her to get behind the
34:19mess. I thought, man, what a, what a Christmas gift we didn't know we were getting from, you know,
34:24from the genre film community this year. Um, I was re that, that kind of rekindled my faith
34:32in what could be the next wave of thought provoking modern horror, you know, um, as much, as much as
34:44I'm kind of gushing about the gore of that movie, I actually don't really like gory movies. I don't
34:49like senseless murder for the, like the terrifier movies. I have a hard time getting through the
34:56first one. I, I, I can't, I, I love the fact that there's an art, the clown. I love it. I love the
35:03fact that we can still pull a Freddy Krueger out of the ethos for all of us to go. Isn't that crazy?
35:10I love that we can still do that. I personally, I can't get through it. They're too, they're too
35:16much for me. I don't know. I, I, maybe I've just gotten soft, but. Well, I'll tell you what,
35:24we'll leave it there. Uh, don't get soft on us. We'll see you on a Sunday here in a Detroit rock
35:29city. Yeah. Peggy. Great to talk to you, man. I appreciate the time. Thank you, man. Good to see you.