The BJP and Congress sparred over the latter's now-deleted headless poster, which targeted Prime Minister Narendra Modi, questioning his absence from the all-party meeting on the Pahalgam terror attack, which claimed 26 lives.
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00:00Good evening, you're watching To The Point. I'm Sreeti Chaudhary, here are the headlines.
00:08Prime Minister chairs high-level security huddle at residence, Defence Minister, CDS, NSA and all the three chiefs in presence.
00:16Terrific new video of Pahalgam massacre. Another video of zipline emerges. Moments when terrorists fired and tourists captured on camera.
00:36Exclusive scoop on Pahalgam probe. Three terrorists gunned down. Tourists, two terrorists shot fleeing. Tourists at exit.
00:44Probe agency traced photos, videos of killers, zipliner, muzambil quizzed by NIA.
00:56Pahalgam terrorists, a trained Pakistani para-commando terrorist, received high-level of training, weapons training to use M4 rifles.
01:04No water, no visa, no airspace now. India's tit-for-tat response to Pakistan.
01:16India may shut its airspace to Pakistan Airlines.
01:19Forced rerouting of Pakistan flights to China and Sri Lanka.
01:23Congress headless Gayab Jaib at Prime Minister Modi. BJP claims Congress's Sartan Se Juda mindset.
01:35BJP says Congress dog-whistle for Muslim votes.
01:38Congress says all an attempt of diversionary tactics, refusing to address the real issues of Pahalgam.
01:44RSS urges Muslims to shum terrorists' funerals. RSS leader says stop funeral prayers for terrorists.
01:55Asks if terror has no religion, why prayers?
01:57One social media post has sparked off an all-out political war.
02:27between the Congress and the Bharatiya Janata Party.
02:31Clearly, the show of unity post the Pahalgam terror attack was short-lived.
02:36While the opposition now going all out to seek accountability from the government,
02:41however, this one post on social media by the Congress official handle has sparked controversy
02:47and given a handle to the BJP to attack the Congress with.
02:52The attempt of this post on the social media platform X was a direct jibe at Prime Minister Modi
03:00with a poster labeled Gayab, questioning the response to the Pahalgam terror attack.
03:06The impact, though, allowed the BJP to accuse the Congress of playing into the Sartan-se-judha narrative.
03:14The Congress has been alone in the Sartan-se-judha narrative.
03:44The BJP got another excuse to blame the Congress for not putting a united front, as the Congress
04:07post was later shared by former Pakistani Minister Chaudhary Fawad Hussain.
04:13The Congress though is adamant, asking for accountability to be fixed, claiming that
04:19these are diversionary tactics by the BJP as Rahul Gandhi has asked for a Parliament session
04:25to discuss the attack, alleging that the government, instead of fixing accountability, is busy
04:31blaming the opposition.
04:34The BJP meanwhile has questioned the sensibility of the Congress on the post, claiming Congress
04:40suffers from what they term an Islamist mindset.
04:45While politics takes centre stage, one wonders if real pertinent questions on the terror attack
04:52will ever be addressed.
04:56Drop focus onto the point this evening.
05:02So, at the back of what you just saw, some of the questions that we posed this evening.
05:06Who really is, viewers, politicising terror?
05:08Is it the BJP?
05:09Is it the Congress?
05:11Because now, it seems to be an all-out face-off between these two political parties and the
05:17aftermath of what should have been a concerted attempt to give back in terms of retribution.
05:22The second question we ask, will real questions on terror be now eclipsed by what we are witnessing?
05:29A slew of petty politics.
05:32And if you come down to the exact social media post, did the Congress completely get the headless imagery wrong?
05:43On the other hand, with what the Congress alleges, all of this just diversionary tactics by the BJP deflect attention.
05:49Rahul Gandhi has asked for a Parliament session, a special Parliament session to discuss the Pehelgaam terror attacks.
05:58Let's take all these questions to our guests this evening.
06:00Joining me, Syed Zafar Islam, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party.
06:04Dr. Rajoy Kumar, National Spokesperson, Congress.
06:07I want to cut across to Dr. Islam first, because, Dr. Islam, the BJP has called this an Islamist mindset playing into the hands of Pakistan,
06:19especially where the extremist slogan of Sartan Sejuda.
06:23The Congress, on the other hand, Syed Zafar Islam, has pointedly said that, number one, why are we assuming that this is the Prime Minister?
06:31Number two, that this is diversionary tactics, Dr. Islam.
06:35That you have the Leader of Opposition who has asked for a special Parliament session, you don't want to address real issues, therefore getting into petty politics.
06:48Well, it is not a petty politics.
06:50Sritiji, let me tell you very candidly, that first three days after this incident where the Pakistani terrorists gunned on innocent Indians, tourists,
07:04first three days, the statement which was coming from most of the opposition party, particularly the principal opposition party, Congress party,
07:13was that they are with the government.
07:15They are with the government of the day.
07:16They want to support the government when the government act decisively against the terrorists and the people who are supporting terrorism.
07:28I meant Pakistan.
07:30But after three days, I don't know what happened to Congress party.
07:35Leaders after leaders are making a statement where they are either demoralizing the Indian army or they are criticizing the government.
07:44They are putting the government on the dock.
07:46This is not the time to discuss.
07:47Look what the Senior Leader Sharad Pawar said.
07:50This is the time to be united to fight against terrorism and when the government has made a statement very categorically,
07:57the Honorable Prime Minister has made a statement that we will take a decisive action.
08:02What should be your role as a leader of opposition or leaders from the opposition parties?
08:08That you should stay united.
08:10We should stay united.
08:11But are we united?
08:12No!
08:13Congress party is making a statement like, see, Saifat Duzsos.
08:18What is his thought process?
08:21You have Malik Arjuna Kharagaji, he is making a similar kind of statement.
08:27Sridhar Amiya is making that kind of statement.
08:29Then there are many others who are making this.
08:31The minister in Karnataka is making a statement.
08:33I think this is what we want to tell you.
08:36And then their post from their own official handle,
08:40Saratan Se Juda.
08:43That kind of a mindset they have and they are also making a statement.
08:49Okay.
08:50Dr. Sam, your time is up.
08:52Your fader is done.
08:53I am going to circle back to you in exactly two minutes.
08:55I want to bring in the Congress spokesperson.
08:57Dr. Rajoy Kumar, is there somewhere down the line admittance that you might be wanting accountability?
09:02You know, your intention might be correct and in the nation's interest, but you've got the imagery completely wrong, allowing the BJP to tie you into an extremist slogan or narrative of Saratan Se Juda.
09:16You know, first question is I would like to tell Zafarji that the Congress has always been throughout this episode and every episode of as far as national security is gone.
09:27We have been very clear that the whole nation stands with what the government will take concrete action.
09:34But look at the situation.
09:35The Prime Minister flies in from Saudi Arabia.
09:38Now, Gayab is from the movie Gayab and you might, you know, this is the typical BJP way of Zafarji to twist and lies.
09:47And I'll tell you why.
09:48Very simple.
09:49Have you called out your minister for telling the minority community should show loyalty to this nation?
09:58Have you called out to all your BJP spokesperson?
10:01You're playing exactly what the ISI of Pakistan wants to start.
10:06And a lot of TV anchors have done it.
10:08Some sensible people have done a great job by asking the right questions.
10:12But a lot of crazy people wanted to push this narrative of Hindu Muslim and that's what the Pakistan ISI wants to do.
10:17But the Prime Minister comes in from Russia from Saudi Arabia and then Russia to Bihar.
10:22And then he laughs at a public meeting.
10:25That is totally okay.
10:27He doesn't go to attend the all party meeting.
10:30That is also okay.
10:31He doesn't go to meet the victims of this massacre.
10:35That is also okay.
10:36What is this happening, sir?
10:38You tell me you are offended with our poster.
10:42I am offended with the Prime Minister not even, you know, attending to these people.
10:47He was laughing with Niti Kumar in Zafar.
10:50Correct?
10:51No, I did.
10:52It is available on everybody's TV.
10:54He didn't attend the all party meeting.
10:56What seriousness are you showing?
10:58That all the countries' parties came together and the Prime Minister doesn't attend.
11:03The Prime Minister doesn't have, full up, the Prime Minister doesn't have a single word for, or no, I don't know what the compensation you guys have announced.
11:10But any victim, any, any victim the Prime Minister has met.
11:16So you are telling me that the poster is offensive.
11:19You are not telling me that what...
11:22Okay.
11:23Dr. Kumar, coming back to you, I want to now shift back to Said Zafar Islam.
11:28Dr. Islam, the fact, you know, your counterpart from the Congress elucidated the larger problem behind it.
11:34Number one, the question that Dr. Islam is being asked is, you call this dog whistling, what about your own Union Minister who practically termed that Indian Muslims are not patriotic enough?
11:46And if they were, we wouldn't be having the kind of incidents that we are having.
11:49You know, that in itself is a dog whistle.
11:52Not at all.
11:57He never meant that.
11:59It's all been twisted.
12:01He's always made a statement where he wants to bring the society together.
12:06So it is very unfortunate that this kind of statement is being or statements are coming from Congress Party against him.
12:16The fact that Congress Party has always, always, you can do a back testing and realize that how Congress Party has behaved irresponsibly.
12:26When the time is to stand with the government, when the time is to help government or support government when they are taking a decisive action.
12:37And the statement is coming from none other than the Malik Arjun Kargayi Sahib, he is saying that,
12:44I mean, this is the time to make this kind of statement about the Prime Minister.
12:50I mean, how irresponsible you can be.
12:52When the Honorable Prime Minister had attended on the request from JDU that they cannot cancel because the arrangements have been made for over a month and then this needs to be attended.
13:07So Honorable Prime Minister having attended the Cabinet Committee of Security a day earlier than the Madhubani Declaration.
13:19He went to the Madhubani and he emphasized and he spoke in English.
13:24I call it the Madhubani Declaration that he will take a decisive action.
13:28So he took this platform to convey the message to the global community, particularly the people who are supporting and the people who are fighting against the terrorism.
13:38So he sent a message.
13:40That particular speech in English only suggests that he used this platform to convey the message to the world.
13:48That we are going to take a decisive action, unimaginable kind of action and the world should know what is coming next.
13:56And the people who are supporting terrorism, there is our party.
14:00Okay.
14:01I'll come back to you, Dr. Islam.
14:03You know, but the fact is, Dr. Islam, you raised pertinent questions or is it the right timing?
14:06But when is a good timing then to seek accountability?
14:09And I would reckon, especially after 2611, the BJP, as a responsible opposition, did go out to seek accountability and you got what you wanted.
14:17The Home Minister then was made to quit, leave his post.
14:21The Chief Minister of Maharashtra at that point of time, the last round, Deshmukh, also quit his post.
14:27So when is the right time to seek accountability is the big question, if this isn't the right time.
14:32But Dr. Rajoy Kumar, you bring up Union Minister Piyush Goyal on what he said.
14:36Why conjecture, Dr. Kumar? You're trying to put in words in Piyush Goyal's mouth.
14:41He never said that Muslims are not patriotic enough.
14:44Piyush Goyal says that until all Indians, where he said 140 crore Indians do not consider patriotism and nationalism as their param dharma, we will continue to see these incidents.
14:55That doesn't really point out to any particular community.
14:58No, no, the question again is, so I take your feedback on that.
15:02I mean, what he meant and what he said and all that.
15:04So I can also say, Preeti, for your sake, that this guyab is from a, why is it Modi?
15:10Why do you say that this guyab is, that poster is about Mr. Modi?
15:13I mean, you can, we can keep interpreting anything the way we want to.
15:18I can say that this poster was anybody, why is the BJP saying it is?
15:21The fact is what it meant, who it indicated, we indicated that the Prime Minister is missing.
15:25That is it and we take responsibility.
15:27What, Piyush Goyal should have some shame in his, shame to, you know, integrity to at least accept.
15:32Integrity to accept. I don't think shame is a harsh word and I apologize for that.
15:36I don't, I should not use that.
15:38The other issue, Preeti, is very simple.
15:40No accountability.
15:41Every time they keep saying this stuff, they keep saying that, you know, the reason why the, the, as an ex-police officer,
15:50why do you think this, the hatred of the whole of Kashmir, whole of Kashmir stood with the nation in protesting?
15:59But the BJP handles and BJP continuously, their leaders continuously in Twitter and all that, continuously go on the Hindu-Muslim debate.
16:07That is, on WhatsApp forward, you have this crazy thing like, we'll make these guys go hungry.
16:12We will stop Amanat Yatra, we will destroy them.
16:15And all that is, uncles and aunties who are BJP-sponsored, whatever it is.
16:20My only fear is, that the BJP wants to push, are playing the Pakistan ISI playbook.
16:27The second issue, which I'm, which I'm again categorically saying.
16:31Furwama, how does a ton, a ton of RDX travel through? No answers.
16:37The national security advisor? No answer.
16:40The home minister? No answer.
16:42What happened from all these terror incidences? No answer, no accountability.
16:47Prime Minister doesn't even go and attend an all-party meeting.
16:51The prime minister rushes on Saudi to go to a press, to a public rally and is joking.
16:57And he says, we will give such a response.
17:00My question is, if a Congress prime minister has done this?
17:05Okay, sir, your time is up. Your time is up.
17:08And you know, you can complete your statement when I come back to you.
17:11But the fact is, Dr. Kumar, you know, fine.
17:14The WhatsApp uncles and aunties are really not affiliated to the BJP.
17:17But you've had enough of your leaders, two of them MLAs, one from Karnataka,
17:21one Mr. Vatidar, from Maharashtra, who've used audacious language when it comes down to the attacks,
17:28where they've completely, you know, there is this terminology called gaslighting of survivors and victims,
17:33where he says that both of them have insinuated that religion wasn't asked.
17:38You know, this is just a narrative that the BJP is trying to spin,
17:41completely gaslighting what have been eyewitness accounts of victims and survivors,
17:46what action has been taken against them, sir.
17:48Lots can be said about, you know, the Congress spokespersons as well,
17:52the kind of language they've used at the back of it.
17:54Because whether we like it, whether we don't like it, the attack was communal.
17:59We can choose to be communal in its response to unite as Indians,
18:02but we cannot deny what happened.
18:04And I'll circle back to you.
18:05But, Dr. Islam, there's a fair point.
18:07I'll give you an example, 26-11, which I did give you, and maybe we can get some answers on that.
18:12The Home Minister did step down.
18:14The Chief Minister of Maharashtra did step down.
18:16Heads rolled. Accountability was sought.
18:18So, today, while we are paying for vengeance, and we should, you know, while we want retribution,
18:24especially for the families of those who've been slain in the name of terror, that should happen.
18:29But why shouldn't accountability be asked for and fixed?
18:33What's wrong with the timing of it all?
18:35I would reckon it's perfect timing.
18:38See, Priti ji, no, I disagree with you.
18:43Accountability, I mean, nobody is running away from the accountability.
18:47I mean, people should put government in the dog.
18:50There is no problem. The Honorable Prime Minister has said many times that you can put us in the dog,
18:54but don't attempt to compromise with the national security.
18:58And I'm telling you, when you refer to the Honorable Piyush Goyalji's statement, what he meant.
19:04You are giving twist and twisting it to make it anti-Muslim Hindu.
19:08But he didn't mean it. He meant people like MLS which you are talking about, Maharashtra MLS, Veditar,
19:15or the Siddharth Ramayyar, this kind of a statement coming from Congress party.
19:20They actually try to make a statement to disintegrate the society,
19:25and instead of keeping it united.
19:28So that is what he meant, that this entire society should be united.
19:32And people from this 140 crore doesn't only count Muslims.
19:37The 140 crore includes Congress party and their leaders,
19:41who actually attempt to somehow mislead the people and give.
19:46Alright, you know, we just, you know, apologies to our spokespersons.
19:50We are just going into a little bit of breaking, coming right back to you,
19:52because these are details that are coming in from inside the Prime Minister's security meet.
19:57Sources tell us that the Prime Minister says that we have to deal a crushing blow to terror,
20:03something he did also echo in Bihar.
20:07And that's the word coming in right now.
20:10There's a special security meet, you can see on your television screens,
20:14the Tri-Chiefs, Army, Air Force, Navy present there.
20:17You have the NSA, you have the CDS, you have the Defence Minister.
20:21So clearly in this security meet, a plan of action, course of action, of retribution is being charted out.
20:29India has already taken stringent diplomatic measures.
20:32And now will India follow through in terms of tactical military measures as well?
20:37And I would reckon that is exactly what is being discussed.
20:40I want to cut across right now to my colleague Shivani Sharma, who's getting in more from the security meet.
20:46Sources also suggesting, Shivani, that the Prime Minister has in fact expressed full faith in the forces
20:52and has given complete freedom to the forces.
20:55But underlying one part where he says that have to deal a crushing blow to terror.
21:00What are we looking at where the Prime Minister affirmed that it is our national resolve to deal a crushing blow to terror?
21:07Give us more details.
21:09You see, this has a very deep meaning when Prime Minister Narendra Modi says two things.
21:15One, that he has full faith in the capabilities of the armed forces.
21:20Second, that the armed forces have been given full freedom to crush the terrorism.
21:26And that is what Prime Minister Narendra Modi had also committed when he was speaking in Man Khi Bad program.
21:32Before that, in Bihar's rally, he has said that,
21:36that the land of Atangabad's land is the time to get in the middle.
21:41So, those kind of stern warnings have come from Prime Minister.
21:45And once again, this message coming in after this important meeting,
21:49where the Raksha Mantri was there, the TDS was there, the three chiefs, the NSA was there.
21:54And a very important thing out here is, Priti, to notice that the visuals that we've seen,
22:00we can see CDS speaking.
22:03That means he was briefing about some action that goes on.
22:07And that is very important to understand that maybe it remains undisclosed,
22:12but there is action on ground, what we can sense.
22:16Because today morning, we were reporting that there were multiple counter-terror operations
22:21that were going on in undisclosed locations.
22:24And now Prime Minister being briefed by the Defence Minister, the CDS, the three chiefs, and the NSA also.
22:31And tomorrow again, there is an important meeting, the CCS again, which will be headed by Prime Minister.
22:37So, Shivani, these two meetings will tie into each other, because today you have the security meeting,
22:43because you have the three chiefs, you have the NSA, you have the CDS, and the Defence Minister.
22:47So, whatever decisions are taken today will, of course, be discussed tomorrow in the security meeting that will take place,
22:54the CCS, which will take place tomorrow, correct?
22:58Absolutely, Priti.
23:00And not only these two meetings, but remember, this will be the second CCS after the Pahlgaam attack,
23:06when Prime Minister Narendra Modi had to cut short his visit to Saudi Arabia.
23:11He had held that CCS, and after which multiple decisions were declared by the MEA.
23:17Now, today, again, he has met Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, along with the service chiefs, the NSA, the CDS.
23:24And tomorrow, once again, there is a meeting.
23:26That means that all these meetings are co-related, Priti.
23:30There is some strategy, some kind of action that goes on, which will be discussed probably in tomorrow's CCS meeting.
23:38And not only the government, Priti, but you remember, in past one week, the opposition leaders have also been taken into confidence by the government on the action that it is taking on.
23:50True.
23:51And also, the diplomats of a number of countries, they were briefed at this south floor.
23:55Right.
23:56So, everybody is being kept into confidence, and some action, some strategy goes on.
24:01Okay.
24:02All right, I'm going to cut across back to Shivani in just a short while.
24:06I want to go to now Gaurav Sabanth, who's also joining us.
24:09So, I want to put this in perspective.
24:11What you see on your television screen is a high-level security meeting that is taking place at the Prime Minister's residence, the three chiefs, the NSA, the Defence Minister, all present there, along with the CDS.
24:22So, clearly, a formulation of a plan of action, where tactical military action, which should follow what the diplomatic stance that India has taken against Pakistan.
24:34Tomorrow is the meeting of the CCS, Cabinet Committee on Security.
24:41And that's the second meet, Gaurav, that is taking place in a span since the Pahalgam attack happened.
24:48There is a correlation there, I would reckon.
24:50Whatever is decided today, tomorrow will be discussed.
24:52Are we looking at a timeframe?
24:54What are we looking at?
24:56So, right now, the Armed Forces and the Prime Minister have discussed, from what sources are telling India today, the next course of action to give a crushing blow to Pakistan state-sponsored radical Islamist terror.
25:07The terminology that government sources are telling India today is a crushing blow that needs to be delivered to terror, point one, point two.
25:16Forces, the Prime Minister has said he has absolute faith in the Armed Forces.
25:22They need to do what they need to do.
25:23They know what needs to be done.
25:25Whether options were discussed, and at this level of meeting, it's not tactical.
25:29It's absolutely strategic, you know, because tactical is what forces do on ground, what's actually happening right now, along the LC.
25:36Pakistan has violated ceasefire at multiple locations, both North and South of Peerpanjal, and tactical response is being given.
25:43But the fact that Pakistan is escalating to the extent that it's issued a NOTAM, a notice to airmen.
25:49Pakistan has declared a no-fly zone over Islamabad and Lahore.
25:53Pakistan is carrying out three massive military exercises, even as we speak.
25:58One is called Lalkar-e-Momin.
26:00One is called Badr exercise.
26:03And one is Haidri exercise, which is happening in the northern areas.
26:08One's happening over central Punjab.
26:10The other is happening over northern Punjab.
26:12And, of course, in Khaybar Pakhtoonghua.
26:15The fact that Pakistan is also carrying out an air exercise around Khaybar Pakhtoonghua,
26:19which is the tail end of that country, is the place where India hit during Balakot airstrikes,
26:26is perhaps an expression that Pakistan anticipates either a ground strike or an airstrike,
26:31given the kind of exercises that it's being carried out and issuing notice to airmen.
26:35It's also issued a navigation notice in the sense that no naval ships can come 500 kilometers from their boats.
26:42That's another message that Pakistan has issued.
26:45So, it is anticipating something.
26:47Will the response be immediate?
26:49Or will the response be when Pakistan has sweated it out?
26:52And then there will be a response.
26:54Remains to be seen, Preeti.
26:56Alright, Gauru. Appreciate you joining us.
26:57I want to go in for a quick comment coming in from both our guests who are still with us,
27:02Dr. Said Zafir Islam, Dr. Rajoy Kumar.
27:04Dr. Rajoy Kumar, it does seem that the Prime Minister is not quite missing,
27:08but today took in a security meet and tomorrow will be there in the CCS as well.
27:14So, not quite GAYAB as possibly the Congress would like us to believe.
27:18No, because I think the GAYAB poster has actually pinched him a lot.
27:24But Preeti, I'm amazed that you know that for the past five days or ten days something big is happening.
27:30I mean, which country keeps showing it on TV that something big is going to happen, something big is going to happen.
27:40I don't think it's, I mean, I feel it's a little, what do you call, it's not proper.
27:46You take action, you make sure these, and I'm happy that the Prime Minister is chairing those meetings.
27:52And if our poster has provoked him a little, I'm so glad that it's worked.
27:57I mean, so power to the Congress to provoke the Prime Minister to at least have two back-to-back meetings in a very short period of time.
28:05Dr. Kumar, I would reckon, but you know, you're allowed to do so. You're the principal opposition.
28:09But that's a lot of credit that you're giving to yourself.
28:12Dr. Islam, would you want to come in and make a point?
28:14Well, we are not even little bit concerned about these posters.
28:22Forget about these posters because it is just that the mindset which we are talking about,
28:27that what kind of mindset, they equate their mindset with the mindset of Lashkar-e-Toybay,
28:32something which we wanted to highlight, and just wanted to show the rest of the country
28:37that this is the mindset the principal opposition party has.
28:40But it doesn't in any way impact the approach the Honorable Prime Minister has
28:47and what he is planning to do to act against terrorism and Pakistan.
28:53Let me tell you what Dr. Rajoy is saying that we should not have spoken.
28:58Nobody is speaking. The Prime Minister has read one statement,
29:01and that statement was for the global community because it is important.
29:05The message should reach to every single country that we are going to take action,
29:10and we will know exactly who is with them and who is with us.
29:13It is important when you are taking a decisive action and a full-fledged operation
29:18that it is important for the country to diplomatically, strategically,
29:22and militarily, when you are taking action against them,
29:25then you must know who is your friend or who is your foe or who is going to be neutral.
29:29And it is important that now we have the bilateral discussions are taking place,
29:34and we know exactly where we stand, where the other people stand,
29:38and where the like Congress is exposed there.
29:42Likewise, Pakistan is totally exposed to the global community.
29:45You know, I am going to leave it at that. I appreciate both of you for joining us,
29:48and I would reckon that I appreciate it, sir. Thank you. Thank you, the both of you.
29:53That right now we put everything aside because what is important is what is taking place.
29:57And especially, once again, let's hark back. We have lost 26 lives.
30:01The lives of 26 families have been changed forever.
30:05And retribution is something, sadly, that they are going to look at as closure.
30:11Let's deliver that, and possibly, unanimously, in one voice.
30:15All right. The latest news break coming in from the high-level security meet at the Prime Minister's residence.
30:20Word coming in that the Prime Minister has, of course, given a free hand to the three chiefs
30:25on a possible military response. Back-to-back meetings after that taking place at the Prime Minister's residence.
30:32Prime Minister, after that meeting, now meeting the Home Minister, Ramit Shah.
30:37These inside details seem to suggest that the Prime Minister said in that meeting that India has to deal a crushing blow to terror.
30:45Sources also tell us that the Prime Minister expressed full faith in the forces and also giving the forces freedom,
30:53a complete free hand to act as they should to crush the scourge of terror emanating from Pakistan's soil.
31:02The Prime Minister affirmed that it is our national resolve to deal a crushing blow to terrorism,
31:07expressing complete faith and confidence in the professional abilities of the Indian Armed Forces.
31:13He also said that they have complete operational freedom to decide on the mode, the targets, and the timing of India's response.
31:22I want to cut across right now to my colleague Shivani Sharma, who is joining us with the latest details that are coming in.
31:28Shivani, back-to-back meetings. First, the high-level security meet with the three chiefs, the NSA, as well as the CDS and the Defence Minister.
31:36Now, Prime Minister meeting the Home Minister and tomorrow we have the CCS, the Cabinet Committee on Security.
31:44What can you add to this news break, Shivani?
31:48Preeti, there's a lot which we can read from these meetings and the statements that we have got from the sources
31:55that in this meeting that happened with the Defence Minister, the CDS, the three service chiefs and the NSA,
32:02what the message that Prime Minister has given is, three things, three important things.
32:08One, that he has given out and reiterated that India will be giving a crushing blow to the terror.
32:17Second, he has full faith in our forces. And third, very important, that all our forces have complete operational freedom to do what they think is right, to crush this terror.
32:29So, this is very important, Preeti, that we read from these meetings, that something big is being planned,
32:36some strategic operation that goes on. And because this is sensitive in nature, that pertains to the national security and a big decision by the government,
32:46not much details are being diverged of this operation. But certainly, the ministers who are handling these ministries,
32:55the responsibility takers, the CDS, the army chiefs, they are all keeping the government, the Prime Minister and the other ministries also in confidence.
33:06And for that matter, tomorrow, there will be again the second PCS of the week, where Prime Minister Narendra Modi will be meeting all the ministers
33:15and discussing the strategy, the action, the operation, the plan of India against terror and the terror state, Pakistan.
33:23Is there a timeline, Shivani, before we let you go, that has been recited in this particular meet?
33:28Or is it the timing of choosing of, you know, the Indian armed forces with a free hand given by the Prime Minister?
33:35See, as per the CCS is concerned, it will be chaired by Prime Minister at 11 a.m. tomorrow morning.
33:43And before that, we are seeing a lot of action happening. And within these seven days, there have been a dozen meetings,
33:50not only with the Prime Minister, but internal meetings that have happened. There are closed-door meetings that are happening.
33:56There are briefings that go on with the CDS, the Raksha Mantri. And Raksha Mantri has briefed the Prime Minister yesterday also.
34:02And tomorrow, Prime Minister will be heading two other meetings besides the CCS.
34:07So, as we talk about the timelines, the action on ground goes on. And because the sentiment is high in India against terror,
34:16India wants to give a strong and stern message, a timely message to Pakistan.
34:21And these meetings will be headed by Prime Minister Narendra Modi, the first one, starting at 11 a.m. tomorrow.
34:27All right. Appreciate you joining us, Shivani, with all the details that are coming in with these meets.
34:31Thank you there. With that, viewers, let's quickly shift focus to our debate number two on To The Point this evening.
34:36Terrorists have a religion debate just got murkier, as the RSS just weighed in on it.
34:48RSS senior leader and its national executive member, Indresh Kumar, has sent out a clear message that all this talk of terrorists not having a religion is unacceptable.
35:00Indresh Kumar has questioned why Islamic prayers are held at terrorist funerals if they have no religion.
35:09This comes days after RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat alluded to the Ramayana.
35:14to seek revenge against Pakistan.
35:16Bhagwat said the duty of the king is to defend the duty of the king.
35:19This comes days after RSS chief Mohan Bhagwat alluded to the Ramayana to seek revenge against Pakistan.
35:29Bhagwat said the duty of the king is to protect people and the king must perform his duty.
35:48While Indresh Kumar did speak on the religion of terrorists, he also said the blood of Pehalga martyrs will not be wasted.
35:56It has transformed the mindset of the Kashmiri people. Today, the entire country stands united in the wake of the tragedy.
36:04with lbs candidate.
36:05mesi and inclination and your tribe.
36:09While RSS chief Mohan spoke to the war, the développ that the tribesري people and the police have also been defeated.
36:14When Janta has committed to the many powers, the Islamic ten who have been gathered,
36:19theIAN who have been able to continue to hisotros and the ones who have given the truth of the country,
36:20and despite the fact that they have returned to the rule of the country,
36:23and the fact that the people have returned to the tribes and the tribes who have been able,
36:24and the fact that there are two things like they have been told of the country and the people that they have told them
36:29and their stories in the future was.
36:32What the statement has done is once again reignite the hugely sensitive debate
36:37on how some extremists misuse religion to fuel hate.
36:43And blaming a whole religion for the act of a few extremists can be dangerous
36:49and only amplifies the extremist narrative to divide in the name of religion.
36:56Top focus on To The Point this evening.
37:28What religion the terrorist comes from, he should not be allowed a place to rest
37:33and should not be glorified in death.
37:35What was the suggestion here?
37:38First of all, before we get into dissecting Indraji's statement,
37:43let us put a few things about him in perspective so you know from where he comes.
37:47He is a lifelong Pracharak who has given eight years of his prime of life in Jammu Kashmir and he went to various homes.
37:54He is the one who got guns in the hands of people to protect their lives against terrorists.
37:59And he very clearly said even in the 90s to Sudarshanji that every Muslim is not in India hating in Jammu Kashmir.
38:06Every Muslim is not anti-Hindu and anti-India.
38:10And Sudarshanji said why did he work with them?
38:13That is the reason why Muslim Rashtriya Manch was established and he has been working with Muslim Rashtriya Manch as a patron for all these years.
38:21So he has been ridiculed, he has been often criticized for his stand, both the ultra-left and the secular jihadis.
38:27In that situation, what he says, it makes a lot of sense because he has worked with those people.
38:33And why we are touchy about it, I don't know.
38:36When terrorists say that I have a religion, I am going to kill you if you don't belong to my religion,
38:41why are we denying him the right to say what he wants to say?
38:44We are like saying,
38:45All he said is this, so when we say every Muslim is not terrorists, very right.
38:53But 99% of terrorists are Muslims.
38:55So Muslim society with whom you are sitting when you talked about that has to introspect
39:00and to support the people who actually are modern Muslims who want to work for the better of the society, be in the mainstream.
39:07I just got a call from a Muslim worker who wanted to protest against the Kashmir killings
39:13and who wanted also to speak and educate his fellow Muslims about Parkville.
39:19And the police in Mumbai didn't allow him.
39:21If this is the way you treat those Muslims who want to work with the mainstream
39:25and want to educate their own people well, what do you expect from the common society?
39:29What do you expect from the common champion seculars?
39:32That is my doubt.
39:33And this is a bit of truth.
39:34That time has come when somebody says I have the religion, the reason for this terror,
39:39then you must question the person, you must question the people who believe that religion.
39:42Sir, your time is up. I'll circle back to you.
39:44I want to go across to Ashutosh, who's joining us.
39:46Ashutosh, do you concur with what Pratant Sharda said,
39:49that the intention was not at all to connect religion with terrorism,
39:55but was very different than what it is portrayed to be?
40:00See, Priti, first of all, let me say this,
40:02because Muslim Rajshriya Month is not a part of the RSS organization.
40:06This is what RSS has told almost a few years back in 2016 on 1st July.
40:12So anything that Indira is saying is a part of the RSS, I do not know whether they should decide among themselves.
40:21The second point is important. I think this is the time when we should see to it what Pakistan wants.
40:27Whether Pakistan wants a disharmony between Hindus and Muslims, whether Pakistan, through the terrorist organizations,
40:34have tried to create a disharmony through the Pahlga, or what Army Chief Munir is saying,
40:40that India, Hindus and Muslims are the two nations.
40:43What the Pakistan government has retaliated after India proposed, taken the five steps,
40:51they said that today Pakistan, Kaidu and Jinnah stands vindicated,
40:57because Hindus and Muslims are the two nations.
40:59So I think there is a whole pattern what Pakistan wants through Pahlga.
41:04They want that in India there should be a Hindu-Muslim disharmony.
41:08If we are going to harp on this particular issue, then we are going to trap ourselves.
41:15The issue is terrorism. And terrorism has no religion.
41:19If the terrorism is a religion, what does the religion of Nathuram would say? Let's forget it.
41:25What I am trying to say is that terrorism has to be dealt with with a strong hand.
41:31We believe that the Prime Minister and his cabinet will decide a calculated, decisive act,
41:39which will teach Pakistan. Let's not meddle with the Hindu-Muslim binary.
41:43If we meddle with the Hindu-Muslim binaries, then we will be playing in the hands of Pakistan,
41:48and this is what the Pakistan wants through this particular act.
41:52These terrorists, they should be totalized. And we in India should keep ourselves
42:00and let the government of India and the armed forces do their job.
42:04All right. I want to cut across to Rajat Sethi as well. Rajat Sethi, I would reckon,
42:07Ashutosh trying to suggest, yes, the nature of the terror attack was deeply communal,
42:12where Hindus were practically hunted out. But in the aftermath, should that be communal?
42:17Should debates of whether terrorists have a religion or whether, you know,
42:20this was communal in nature, wait, and we should practically unite as Indians first?
42:27These are not mutually exclusive terms, Preeti Ji. We are, nobody here sensible enough is going to
42:34say that all Muslims are terrorists. But certainly all the terrorists that, you know, conducted this
42:39dastardly act were Muslims. Therefore, the onus responsibility of ensuring that the religion is
42:48not stapled together with this act of terrorism lies with the Muslim and Muslim intelligency of our country.
42:53And this is why I want to appreciate, of all people, Asaduddin Owaisi, our member of parliament,
43:00look at the kind of words that he used. This kind of a language we expected. Therefore,
43:04the burden of proof is on the Muslim community this time. And he and many other Muslim scholars,
43:10Muslim intellectual figures from our society, from our country stood up and said that we will not allow
43:16these people who misused Islam to staple Islam together with their terror activities. So there
43:22is a very fine line. You need to understand that. Nobody is saying that all Muslims are terrorists,
43:27but all terrorists are Muslims. The onus is on the Muslims and the Muslim community leaders,
43:33at least some of them stepped up and they ensured that the air is cleared, that this literalist
43:38interpretation of Quran, this literalist interpretation of the Pakistani journal,
43:45the way it was used to indoctrinate and try and create these terrorists and unleash them on India,
43:51they do not meet their end objective. And I think this is where, see, I don't go by what Ashutosh
43:56Ji's simplistic assessment is. Oh, there is no religion of terror. No, absolutely not. There is,
44:01there was a religious angle which was brought in deliberately by these terrorists to give in a
44:06color to of course also buttress the point that yes, our religion stands for so and so by
44:12certain literalist interpretation of these Mujahideen gangs that operate out of Pakistan.
44:17Now, this fine line of difference should not again be conflated between a murder that was created by
44:22Nathuram Ghotse to terrorism, which is a systemic attack that has been happening for years and decades.
44:29Rajat, your time is up. I'll come back to you. I'm going to go back. I'm going to a one minute window
44:32each and I will give that one minute first to Ashutosh because this is a two is to one and I'll go back to
44:36Mr. Sharada after that. So, Ashutosh, to bring you in on this with what Rajat Sethi said, maybe to correct
44:42that a bit. All, you know, terrorists in this attacks were Muslim. Sadly, also the kind of terrorist attack
44:49that India has faced in the past mostly have been Muslim. Yes, not all terrorists are Muslim. When you look at
44:55an international board, you know, you have Norway where there have been right-wing extremists or
45:00other Nordic countries there. But do you agree with what Rajat Sethi, the submission he made?
45:07I do not agree even a bit of it. What about the Khalistan movement where there are Muslims,
45:14Islamic jihadists? No. So, this is the problem with the whole ideology that they can only see things
45:22only through a binary of Hindus and Muslims. That's all. Tell me, the biggest terrorist attack
45:31were done by these Khalistanis. And look, Indira Gandhi had to be martyred. The issue is,
45:40before in Kashmir, the Hindus were identified in Punjab. They were taken out from the buses.
45:48They were killed at the point-blank range. Who was killing them? Were they Muslims? Were they
45:53the Islamists? Were they Jihadists? What about the Irish movement? So, this is the easy way out.
45:59And that is my problem with this ideology. They cannot see beyond the Muslim-Muslim chashma.
46:05So, and this is a kind of an ideology which plays in the hands of Pakistan.
46:11And today, for the God's sake, let's not do Hindu Muslims.
46:14Separate. Okay. I want to go back to Ratan Sharda, sir. I'll come back to you. I'll circle back to you.
46:18Ratan Sharda, the question then emerges, should, you know, Indirish Kumar, you know, have waited before
46:25he weighed in on something which is an extremely sensitive topic? Are we playing into the hands
46:30of the terrorists who practically wanted exactly that? You know, maybe take the line of what
46:35Mohan Bhagwad said, where he said, give a befitting response and not weigh in on the religious nature
46:42of this attack? You don't try to play Mohan Bhagwadji and Indirish Kumarji and don't try to play with
46:49the statements. Both have their own place in the statement they made. I'm not here to defend Indirish.
46:54I've told you the background from it comes from. He works with the Muslim community all these years.
46:58Whether the MRM is part of RSS or not, that's a different issue. But Indirish, he works with them
47:03and he knows them very well. Secondly, it is not just India. Across the world, these terrorists,
47:1099% belonging to Muslims, have been and running on jihadi ideology, have been creating havoc all over
47:16the world, right from Africa to Europe to West, everywhere. But we will keep on denying. We'll
47:21keep on denying because we want to not allow fodder to Pakistanis. Is that the reason that we will keep
47:27quiet about the nature of this kind of attacks, the hate that they spread? Now, you cannot have
47:32harmony without bitter truth being reconciled. It's a historic point. But you keep on hiding it,
47:38we'll keep on putting abandonment on that. Unless we sit together and face the past with a very brave
47:44face and say, okay, this is what happened. We disown everything what has happened earlier.
47:48We will move on a fresh path. Have you done that? Sir, your time is up.
47:50Your time is up. Sir, I'm sorry, there's only equal time given to all people. And nobody's trying to
47:57play in on anybody's statement. I'm a journalist. It's my job to ask questions, which I continue will
48:02to do. One minute each to Ashutosh and one minute again to Rajat Sethi. Ashutosh, you want to go first
48:09and then I'll close with Rajat Sethi. Last submission, sir. No, I think that the best is
48:16let's leave it to the government of India. And I think the prime minister and the cabinet and CCS
48:21is meeting. They will decide. And I hope that they will not look issues through the Hindu-Muslim binary.
48:27Pakistan is a rogue state. Pakistan is suffering from some psychological schizophrenic problems.
48:32And Pakistan is going to suffer. Pakistan is already on the verge of being balkanized.
48:36Pakistan is already on the verge of economic ruin. And any action should not be for the vote bank.
48:44The action should be to teach Pakistan a lesson that Pakistan should desist from doing anything,
48:49something like this in the future. That should be the bottom line. And if we look at from the
48:54emotional point of view that the Hindus were killed. Yes, Hindus were killed. I'm also Hindu.
48:58You're also Hindu. Our bread also boils. But the issue is this is what Pakistan wants.
49:04So, let's leave it to the government. Let's leave it to the security establishment. And I hope and I
49:09pray that they will teach a lesson to Pakistan. Pakistan will never do something like this ever in
49:13future. All right. I'll give one minute to Rajat Sethi. Rajat Sethi, closing submission, sir.
49:19Well, again, let's not try and, you know, conflate this issue of Islamic terrorism,
49:25which has been instrumentalized and taken to another hilt by Pakistan. It has happened in the
49:31past. It will continue to happen till you do not address the elephant in the room. This fault line
49:36that exists within India is being used by Pakistan. And therefore, if we all have to come up above this
49:43fault line, the only way to do that is us as Indians can come together. Now that burden of who will do that
49:50heavy lifting in this specific case, since Hindus were identified on the basis of religion,
49:56underlying religion, therefore, the burden, the extra mile will have to be walked up,
50:00has to be walked by the second majority religion, which is the Islamic. And this is why I said,
50:06I appreciate what Tawaisi has said, because he came from the bottom of the heart because he understood
50:11the game plan that Pakistan is trying to play. Pakistan has instrumentalized Islam to meet its end
50:16and objectives, but it needs to be handled and dealt with proper care without brushing the
50:21things under the carpet and not address the elephant in the room.
50:24Well, the time is up. I appreciate all three guests for joining us. Sadly, that's all the time that we had
50:29in this debate. We had to cut to the breaking news that was coming in from that high-level security
50:33meet at the Prime Minister's office. Whereas we're going to leave it at that, you know, the attack was
50:37communal. Whether we like it, whether we don't like it, we have to admit it, that there were Hindus
50:42who were hunted and they were killed in the name of religion. Do we continue the communal
50:47aftermath of it? Or do we unite as Indians as one and respond? We leave it for our viewers to decide.