Hours after Prime Minister Narendra Modi gave a free hand to the armed forces and their chief to have a crackdown on Pahalgam attackers, Pakistan's Information Minister Attaullah Tarar claimed that the country had received "credible intelligence", indicating India may carry out a military strike within the next 24 to 36 hours.
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00:00Good evening, Pakistan is in panic.
00:10Hours after Prime Minister Narendra Modi met the three services chiefs,
00:15the CDS, the Raksha Mantri and the National Security Advisor,
00:20Pakistan was flapping literally like headless chicken.
00:24You had Pakistan's information minister who did a press conference at 3 in the morning.
00:30There were lights that were turned out in Sialkot, according to media, in Pakistan.
00:34They turned out lights. They feared an Indian assault.
00:37They feared that India would be striking.
00:40There are political leaders in Pakistan who are desperately seeking international intervention.
00:45We get you more on that story today.
00:49India intends carrying out military action against Pakistan in the next 24 to 36 hours.
00:563 a.m. alarm by Pakistan minister.
01:06Pakistan air operations cut by half.
01:14Pakistan's panic call to the United Nations.
01:17After Prime Minister gives free hand to forces.
01:30Fear and frenzy in Pakistan.
01:34Big focus on India first.
01:36But beyond this fear, beyond that frenzy, what's actually happening on ground in Pakistan?
01:47So, Pakistan Air Force, they've just extended the no-fly zone over Islamabad and Lahore.
01:54Former Army Commander, Northern Command, Left-in General DS Huda.
01:58Remember, he was Army Commander during the 2016 surgical strikes.
02:01He joins me on India first.
02:03As will Air Chief Marshal Faliomi, Major Former Chief of Air Staff.
02:08On Pakistan's aggressive posturing, they've had three Air Force exercises.
02:13Some, of course, are now being downgraded and scaled down.
02:17So, they have exercises like Frisai Badr and Lalkare Momin exercises.
02:21There are some reports that seem to indicate that an F-16 crashed in the northern areas in the past 24 hours as part of that during those exercises.
02:31I'm Gaurav Sawant.
02:32On India first, we'll tell you about India's preparedness and panic in Pakistan.
02:38But first, as always, let's get started with the headlines on India first at 8.
02:43Prime Minister Narendra Modi's chairs, his second Cabinet Committee on Security meets since the Pahelgaam attack.
02:52Sources tell India today, Jammu and Kashmir security was reviewed in this meeting.
02:56The Prime Minister also overhauls the National Security Advisory Board.
03:02Pahelgaam terror attack mastermind Hafiz Mohammed Saeed tracked to a Lahore safe house.
03:14India today accesses exclusive satellite images and videos that expose Pakistan still protecting a UN-designated terrorist.
03:23Hunt continues for the Pahelgaam terrorists.
03:33Indian Army, Jammu and Kashmir, Special Operations Group intensify the search operations.
03:39Small army teams are chasing those terrorists.
03:42Houses of terrorists are being screened one by one.
03:47Big announcement by the Narendra Modi government's centre to conduct a caste survey along with the national census.
04:01Government says Congress used caste survey only as a political tool.
04:06Politics erupts over caste census.
04:14Congress claims credit.
04:15Rahul Gandhi seeks a timeline for the caste count.
04:18Says he will eliminate the 50% reservation gap.
04:23Now, to win in battle, you must always know what's happening on the other side of the hill.
04:38And let us tell you what's happening in Pakistan, in the adversaries' camp.
04:42There's fear and there is frenzy in Pakistan.
04:45Top Pakistani ministers, they've been raising an alarm and desperate.
04:50Imagine their information minister going live at 2 in the morning saying an attack is imminent.
04:55It could happen in 24 hours.
04:57It could happen in 36 hours.
04:59They are in what is known in military parlance as flapping.
05:04Pakistan is flapping.
05:05And how?
05:07They're very scared there will be an Indian attack.
05:10It's imminent.
05:11They know it.
05:11Whether it'll be a surgical strike or an airstrike or a combination of both, a missile strike.
05:17Will the Indian Navy do something?
05:19Because many say, ab ki baar, nevi ka waar.
05:23Is that what will happen?
05:24So, Pakistan's Prime Minister has already sent out an SOS, a save our souls, to the United Nations.
05:32Pakistan has also scrambled its fighter jets and its naval warships.
05:36Its naval warships are out in the Arabian Sea.
05:38And they're issuing a NOTAM.
05:40They want to declare an area anywhere close to the Karachi or Mara and Gwadar Port, a place where no aircraft can come, where no ships can come.
05:49They want to test missiles over the next 48 hours.
05:52Prime Minister Narendra Modi chaired five crucial meetings today.
05:56And Pakistan should be clear about one thing.
06:00India's message.
06:01It's not just restricted to holding the Indus Waters Treaty in abeyance, which anyway is giving Pakistanis sleepless nights.
06:08And they're crying.
06:09They're crying to an entire ecosystem across the world, including in India.
06:12But the fact remains, India's punishment to a state sponsor of radical Islamist terror, perhaps, as the Prime Minister pledged, would be unimaginable.
06:23And that punishment is coming.
06:33Jittery, rattled, panic-stricken.
06:36Pakistan runs helter-skelter, fearing retaliation from India.
06:42A midnight crisis cabinet briefing.
06:48A panic call to the United Nations condemning India.
06:51Cutting short air operations by 50 percent, fearing confusion.
06:56And two air warfare exercises, including air defence and interception drills.
07:02Panic-stricken at 3 a.m., Pakistan Minister Attaullah Tarar claimed that intel sources have revealed
07:09that India may carry out a military strike within the next 24 to 36 hours.
07:14Pakistan has credible intelligence that India intends carrying out military action against Pakistan in the next 24 to 36 hours
07:29on the pretext of baseless and concocted allegations of involvement in the Pahal Gham incident.
07:40Pakistan Air Force has cut down at flying operations by over 50 percent.
07:45And only essential operations are being carried out to avoid any confusion in the airspace.
07:50Pakistan Prime Minister Shahbaz Sharif is also panicking.
07:55He called the U.N. condemning India's diplomatic strike, alleging false propaganda by India.
08:01The Secretary General also expressed his deep concern at the rising tensions between India and Pakistan.
08:10And he also underscored the need to avoid a confrontation that could result in tragic consequences.
08:17The Secretary General offered his good officers to support any de-escalation efforts.
08:22Pakistan's Foreign Minister Ishaq Darar said he pushed to omit mention of Lashkar-e-Toyba proxy,
08:31TRF, from a United Nations Security Council press statement.
08:35A big admission of Islamabad's role in terror attacks, including the Pahal Gham strike.
08:40We refused to budge in.
09:05Pakistan's mortal fear triggered after PM Modi gave a free hand to the security forces
09:23in a key security meet on Tuesday evening.
09:26Pakistan's military forces
09:56Is a devastating attack on Pakistan only a matter of time?
10:03Bureau Report, India Today.
10:09Saza milegi, saaza milkar rahegi and Pakistan knows saaza ka samayi aagaya hai.
10:16It's time for punishment.
10:17Whether it happens tonight, tomorrow night, after a week or a fortnight,
10:21that's of course best left to the armed forces to decide.
10:24The Prime Minister has given them a green light.
10:26Will it be an airstrike?
10:28Will it be a surgical strike?
10:29Will it be a combination?
10:30Will the Navy do something?
10:31Will all the three services do something?
10:33Would that lead to an escalation?
10:34There are many questions and we have experts to answer those questions for you.
10:38But I want to explain the India-Pakistan border.
10:43That's the international border.
10:44I want to explain the LC, the line of control, which is already hotting up.
10:49And I also want to explain what's happening on either side of Peer Panjal,
10:53on the other side of Zorjila and then the Siachan Glacier.
10:56And that's the entire gamut of the India-Pakistan international border and line of control.
11:02So let's take this step by step.
11:04The India-Pakistan international border, let's start from Gujarat.
11:10So from Gujarat to Rajasthan to Punjab, that is how the India-Pakistan border runs.
11:16It's about 3,000, roughly 3,500 kilometers long, 3,323 to be precise.
11:22That's the international border.
11:24Starts from the Arabian Sea, runs through Gujarat, Rajasthan, Punjab.
11:28And then in Jammu, it's about 200 kilometers.
11:31That's the border.
11:33And then just beyond Akhnoor starts the, from the IB sector, you go to the LOC or the LC sector.
11:41In Punjab, it's about 553 kilometers.
11:44In Jammu and Kashmir, now this entire Jammu and Kashmir, it's about 770 kilometers,
11:48is the line of control and 200 kilometers, approximately, is the international border.
11:56Let me now talk about the violation and why this distinction is very important
11:59between LC and the IB or the international border.
12:03Now, take a look at these images.
12:05That is the Peer Panjal.
12:07On north of Peer Panjal is the Kashmir sector.
12:09And what do you see in the Kashmir sector?
12:11Dates of violations.
12:12In Kupwara, 28th of April.
12:15Kupwara again, 27th of April.
12:16Toothmari Gali, Baramula, 28th of April.
12:19Neelam Valley, of course, is across.
12:21Lipa Valley, 24th.
12:23Uri, on our side, it's happened on the 22nd.
12:26Punch, now you're coming south of Peer Panjal.
12:28Sundarbani sector, this is happening again on the LC, but south of Peer Panjal.
12:33So, on either side of Peer Panjal, there are ceasefire violations.
12:36But what is extremely significant?
12:39That it's not just restricted to Akhnoor, Naushera, Sundarbani, Punch and Rajowari.
12:44But take a look at this bigger picture.
12:46The 770 kilometer long line of control.
12:50And at the line of control, you see these ceasefire violations.
12:53Akhnoor is where IB merges into LC.
12:57Then Naushera on the 29th.
12:59Sundarbani again on April 29th.
13:01Rajowari and Punch where it started earlier.
13:03Remember, these are some of the places that Pakistan uses for infiltration very extensively.
13:10Now, of course, this area is fenced.
13:12But then there are also, it's a riverine area.
13:15It's forested.
13:16It has hills.
13:17And that is how Pakistan takes advantage to infiltrate.
13:20But what is happening right now is ceasefire violation.
13:23Then on the Kashmir side, on the other side of the Peer Panjal, you have in Kupwara, in Baramula, in Uri.
13:30Remember Uri is where Pakistani terrorists infiltrated.
13:34In 2016, they struck an army garrison well protected on the front.
13:38But they came from the rear side and they targeted and we had casualties.
13:41That was a very, very painful episode for the Indian Armed Forces.
13:45General Huda, you know, was the army commander at that time.
13:48And when you talk to him, it actually left a scar as far as the armed forces are concerned.
13:54And that is why India did this surgical strike.
13:58And the general who was the army commander during the time of that surgical strike in 2016
14:03now joins me on this India Today special broadcast.
14:07General Huda, as always, welcome on India Today, sir.
14:11What do you make of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's message to the three service chiefs?
14:16Decode for us, what does a free hand to the armed forces to respond to terror, to punish terror?
14:23What does that mean, sir?
14:27So, Gaurav, thank you. Pleasure to be on your show.
14:32I think the Prime Minister has told the service chiefs that they are now free to plan
14:39what kind of military response should be there, what shape it will take,
14:46how long they will take for its preparation, what is a good time to launch it.
14:52And I think it's a good decision by the Prime Minister because the service chiefs are aware
14:57of what the ground situation is, where are the vulnerabilities, which are our strong points,
15:04and how they can be utilized just in case, you know, it is intended to use military force.
15:12So, this is the right way for us to do it so that the military does its planning
15:18based purely on professional issues and personal reasons.
15:23And obviously, it doesn't mean that the military can then just go ahead and do whatever it wants.
15:28So, the ultimate approval will have to come from the political leadership,
15:33the ultimate approval for conduct of whatever military operations are,
15:38and aside, will come from the Prime Minister.
15:42Okay.
15:43Sir, what do you make of what's happening across?
15:45Pakistan's Information Minister going live at 2 in the morning, saying an attack is imminent.
15:49It could happen within 24 hours.
15:50It could happen in 36 hours.
15:52Their Prime Minister reaching out to the United Nations.
15:55Why is Pakistan so jittery right now?
15:58No, because I think they know that India's red lines have been crossed.
16:05They know that the Prime Minister has responded to major terrorist attacks with use of military force.
16:11And I think that is what is making them nervous and jittery that, you know,
16:16looking under every rock to see, you know, is there an Indian Army soldier here?
16:21What are they going to do?
16:23How is it that they will quickly respond to us?
16:25Clearly, because India has shown in the past that terror attacks of this nature will be responded to.
16:35And clearly, that is what is making them very nervous.
16:39Okay.
16:40Okay.
16:40You were Army commander at the time of that surgical strike across the LC in 2016, post-Uri.
16:46That time you had element of surprise, didn't you, sir?
16:49Did Pakistan anticipate it?
16:51Or Balakot, did Pakistan anticipate that there'd be an airstrike, not just across the LC, but hit them across the international border?
16:58Sir, this time, isn't that element of surprise already lost?
17:02Look at the hysteria in Pakistan.
17:04Look at the kind of exercises, the deployment of the army, the exercises of the air force.
17:10Is that opportunity lost, sir?
17:11No, sir, Gaurav, to be fair, that, you know, 2016 was a big, big surprise for the Pakistan Army because they had never felt that India would be able to, and the Indian Army would be able to carry out such sort of extensive cross-border operation.
17:33To be fair, some limited operations had been carried out in the past, but they did not expect it.
17:41So there was an element of surprise.
17:43I think similarly, in 2019, they didn't expect the use of air power, which everyone, you know, at that time was saying could be considered escalatory.
17:52And the fact that the airstrike was carried out on Pakistani territory, not on Pakistan-occupied Kashmir, was also an element of surprise.
18:00I don't think we have that advantage now.
18:07But Gaurav, that doesn't mean that there aren't vulnerable areas, there aren't vulnerable points, there aren't targets that, you know, the Indian military with the current capability that it has.
18:19Since 2019, there has been significant enhancement in particularly the kind of aircraft that we have, the kind of air defenses we have.
18:28So I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that the military option cannot be exercised just because the Pakistan Army Navy Air Force is prepared.
18:39True, we have the Rafals, we have the S-400s.
18:42But when you look at the situation on ground right now, and I was just explaining, like you saw that map, ceasefire violations that are taking place on either side of the Peer Panjal.
18:51Now, reports suggest that as of now, they are small arms.
18:55But in your appreciation, they've already expanded to IB in one sector, in Jammu, in Pargwal.
19:02Is this already a sign of escalation?
19:04Is that a signal that they are sending out?
19:06Is that a signal that we are sending out?
19:10So, God, you know, we can't insulate the line of control and the ceasefire from the state of relationship that India and Pakistan have.
19:20So currently, there is enormous tension.
19:22Troops would have built up on both sides of the border and the line of control.
19:28There would be suspicion about every movement that takes place.
19:32So I don't think, you know, we can expect this state of tensions happening between the two countries and say, look, but, you know, there is a ceasefire understanding.
19:43So everything would be fine.
19:45I would think, you know, this is the ceasefire understanding is currently extremely, extremely fragile.
19:54And if further military action is taken, I'm afraid it could completely break down.
19:58So this arc of ceasefire violations, and we are showing this on the map, you know, right from Kupwara to Baramula to Neelam Valley to, okay, the Peer Panjal, come down to Punch, Rajwari, Krishnaghati sector.
20:14It's increasing now to Akhnoor and Paragwal.
20:17Is the arc of ceasefire violation widening?
20:20And will India's response, will that be limited just to small arms?
20:25Or do you expect and anticipate fire assaults to start taking place, artillery to open up the 155mm howitzers?
20:32Or can it also escalate to a surgical strike across?
20:35See, we've already seen a spread.
20:39So initially, what we saw was that it started off, you know, around Kashmir, spread to the line of control in Jammu.
20:46Now it's spread to the IB sector.
20:50So you could see, I mean, I don't know.
20:54So I've also heard that the DJmos have spoken to each other.
20:57So whether, you know, that attempt to speak to each other will actually put a check and control on ceasefire violations.
21:08Look, a lot of tensions are there.
21:11They're mounting tensions.
21:13There are indications that India could carry out military action.
21:18And in such a situation, I think for us to expect that troops along the border will exercise restraint, I think is not correct.
21:28Now, whether it leads to fire assaults or it goes up all, only depends on, as I said, how things span out over the next, you know, week or 10 days.
21:41Okay.
21:41But from what Prime Minister Narendra Modi said, that not just terrorists, but the backers will be punished.
21:47Now, if the aim is to punish the Pakistan army, and if the aim is to ensure that Pakistan army gets deterred and does not carry out the next terror attack in our country, what kind of targets does India need to acquire across?
22:01It clearly has to be more than just a launch pad or a terror camp.
22:06It has to inflict significant pain on the Pakistan army on some of their locations, isn't it, sir?
22:13Look, whether they select an army location or a terrorist camp, the fact that Indian military is being applied across the border is a direct signal to Pakistan army.
22:29I mean, if some terror attack happens in India, don't we question our own security officials, don't we question the army and say, look, how is it that this has happened?
22:39So, yeah, so I'm saying irrespective of the kind of target that is chosen, and again, that will be carefully chosen by the military,
22:47it still sends a message to Pakistan army that we can come across areas that you are defending and strike targets in your terrorism.
22:55Okay, and in your appreciation, sir, and as we look at this map of Jammu and Kashmir, so far, the other side of Zojila, I mean, we've had a war in Kargil that Pakistan violated the line of control and entered in the Kargil sector.
23:12Before that, we've had a hot situation all along the AGPL or the actual ground position line at the Siachen Glacier.
23:19But those battles or those battle areas remain frozen.
23:23They've withstood all pressures.
23:25Does that suit us?
23:28You know, whether it's the AGPL, the Kargil sector or the international border in Punjab, Rajasthan, Gujarat, situation along the Arabian Sea,
23:38will this remain confined to Jammu and Kashmir or expand?
23:44Yeah, so this always happens.
23:46And, Ghanu, it would be clearly unprofessional to think that our military will do something and that they will not react.
23:59They will react.
24:00That also has to be built in your planning.
24:03And so when the service chiefs are considering different options,
24:08they will consider the fact that there could be retaliation.
24:11If that retaliation happens, what should be our reaction?
24:15The whole game, Ghanu, is that at each escalatory cycle, at each escalatory ladder,
24:24the attempt is that you should come out on top.
24:27So it may not, you know, like you spoke about the last Balakota airstrike where they did something, we did something.
24:36And then, you know, it's sort of calm down.
24:40It may lead to escalation.
24:42And that is something that we need to be prepared for.
24:45I think that's clearly there that at some levels, matters could escalate.
24:53How do you deal with that escalation is something that would be war game that would be discussed.
24:59And we're on top of that escalation ladder, but opening new areas, is that in our interest?
25:06Because Pakistan, perhaps, as some commentators say, would like to keep it confined to JNK so that it can concentrate its forces and not expand the battle.
25:16Does that suit us or does that not suit us either?
25:18So I think for now, Ghanu, the government's idea would be to try and send a strong message to Pakistan that terrorist activities will find a response from India.
25:37They will try and do it at, I would say, without escalating matters too much, unless, you know, we see things over a period of time completely blowing out of control.
25:52On Siachen, the ceasefire, the AGPL has held.
25:55Cargill has been sort of peaceful.
25:57I don't see a sort of an all-out kind of attempt being made by India.
26:08As I said, what is our intent?
26:10Our intent is to tell Pakistan that activities that you do will carry a cost.
26:18And that cost will be imposed on you.
26:20And I think we can do that and impose that cost without, frankly, going across the international border or heating up the complete India-Pakistan border.
26:33Will Pakistan Army understand?
26:35Because all our efforts in the past, they understand up to a point and then not beyond.
26:40For example, after Balakot, they did not hit us or no terrorist has struck India in the rest of the country.
26:46But Jammu and Kashmir, they've kept the pressure up.
26:49But what is it that we need to do to ensure that Pakistan does not even attempt JNK, that terror is no longer a low-cost option for them,
26:57even if it means Asim Munir's survival, even for him to survive or for Pakistan Army to remain on top?
27:05Will a fire assault be okay?
27:08Will they get the message through a fire assault at the LC?
27:11Is there another way to send across that message to Pakistan that no terror is no longer acceptable anywhere in India?
27:19Look, irrespective of how it is done, whether it is single service or you do a combination of, you know,
27:28some ground operations along with the air operation, it will require synergy between all three services.
27:36It cannot be that, you know, when the airstrike is happening, that the army is unprepared for any retaliation which will come on the ground,
27:44or that the Navy has not also prepared to see if things escalate, what is it that they're going to do.
27:50So there's going to be complete synergy, irrespective of, you know, the kind of strikes that happen.
27:57But I think all three services will have completely synergized their operations.
28:01And suddenly we hear a lot of nuclear threats that are coming from Pakistan, that, you know,
28:09their bombs are not for decoration, they're not for to be kept in chalks, they're not for drawing rooms, they are to be used.
28:16What do you make of that nuclear bogey?
28:18Would that deter an Indian military response, a punitive Indian military response?
28:23Or have we seen through the nuclear bogey or their nuclear threatening, their threats?
28:28So, Gaurav, this is a standard playbook.
28:31Every time there is a crisis between the two countries,
28:35the first thing that, you know, Pakistan pulls out is this nuclear card,
28:40trying to show mainly the international community that any response by India could lead to a nuclear holocaust in South Asia.
28:49But we have seen this playbook in the past.
28:53It hasn't prevented us from at least carrying out limited military strikes.
28:59We saw that in 2019 in Balakor that we did use.
29:05So from an Indian perspective, I think there is a sense that space exists to carry out some military operations below the nuclear threshold.
29:17And this nuclear blackmail, frankly, you know, I think has run its course.
29:23Pakistan's nuclear blackmail has run its course.
29:25But India's actions or at least, you know, Prime Minister Narendra Modi saying that India,
29:31Government of India saying that we'll hold the Indus Waters Treaty in abeyance.
29:35Now, analysts in Pakistan are panicking.
29:38There are several who say that this could be catastrophic.
29:41And they don't see our blood, you know, being shed from Pulwama to Pahalgam to 2611 Mumbai terror attacks to Ahmedabad to terror attacks across our country.
29:51That did not make them jittery.
29:54Suddenly their water being stopped is making them very jittery.
29:57And they say, how can you parch an entire country?
30:00How can you, you know, starve an entire country?
30:04Now they are panicking.
30:05What do you make of their panic?
30:06Look, if you look at the statement that India has made, where it talks about holding the Indus Water Treaty in abeyance,
30:15it also links it with Pakistan's terrorist activity very directly.
30:19That it is held in abeyance, you know, till Pakistan continues to use terrorist.
30:24So they are sending a clear message, very clear message, that if you continue to do what you are doing, then your water security is threatened.
30:37And that, as you know, has created enormous kind of worry, enormous panic in Pakistan.
30:44Look at the statements that have come coming out, that, you know, we will go to war over the water.
30:51New statements by Pakistani politicians that Indian blood is going to flow in Indus.
30:56I mean, this is just showing their great concern.
31:02So I think India's step in saying that we are going to hold this in abeyance is possibly the strongest message that India could send out.
31:14That's a very pertinent point to make, sir.
31:17Many thanks for joining me here on India Today.
31:20So, Lieutenant General Huda says holding the Indus Water Treaty is a very major signal.
31:26But then the fact that we've lost so many lives and we continue to lose so many lives to Pakistan's state-sponsored radical Islamist terror,
31:33despite a Balakot airstrike, what is it that India needs to do in terms of kinetic operations and non-kinetic operations?
31:40And Indus Water's treaty is perhaps sending out that very clear message.
31:45You want to spread terror?
31:46Then you'll be prepared to lose at least some of that water.
31:49But there's a big story that's coming.
31:51And Pakistan has extended the NOTAM or a notice to airmen declaring a no-fly zone over Lahore and Islamabad.
31:59That's been extended by another 48 hours.
32:02It's now been extended till the 2nd of May.
32:05Pakistan Air Force, perhaps taken aback during the Balakot airstrikes in 2019,
32:09is now flying aggressive combat air patrols to prevent a repeat, perhaps of being surprised again.
32:16But what should one make of those three different exercises that are underway from the northern areas of Pakistan-occupied Jammu and Kashmir,
32:24down to Punjab province, to Sindh and up to the Arabian Sea?
32:28What are these exercises?
32:29Lalkare Moment, Fizai Badr, Zarbe Haidri, all these Islamist names that they come up for their exercises.
32:37I want to understand what these exercises mean and why are lights suddenly being turned out in Sialkot.
32:44Last night, Sialkot went dark and it's the Pakistani media saying that.
32:47We are not saying that.
32:48They went dark because they feared an Indian airstrike.
32:51How would Indian Air Force be viewing these exercises?
32:54Joining me now on this special broadcast is Air Chief Marshal Fali Homi Major, former Chief of Air Staff.
33:00Air Chief, you, during 26-11, Mumbai terror attacks and immediately after that,
33:05had recommended that India should hit terror camps across.
33:09Today, how would you read Pakistan's caps, their very aggressive combat air patrols
33:16and their exercises from Lalkare Moment to Fizai Badr to Zarbe Haidri, sir?
33:26Gauru, am I there on your screen?
33:29Yeah, absolutely.
33:30Strength 5, go on, sir.
33:32Gauru, in the past few days, there have been some very hectic activities in Pakistan.
33:45And to me, it appears that they have accepted the fact that they are now a victim nation
33:57and they are preparing for it.
34:03Good luck to them.
34:04Explain, sir, the victim nation.
34:05Yes, sir.
34:06Go on, sir.
34:07Yeah, because they think that they are going to be the victims now of an assault which is forthcoming.
34:14So, good luck to them.
34:17Let them keep preparing.
34:19And we'll see what happens in the coming hours or days ahead.
34:25Okay, coming hours or days, not weeks, because isn't that element of surprise lost before Balakot?
34:33Air Force had the element of surprise because perhaps it wasn't even in the realm of Pakistani imagination
34:38that we'll punish terror by launching fighter jets across the LC, hitting across the IB.
34:44Aren't they better prepared this time with their radars, with their combat air patrols,
34:49with their AVAX or eyes in the skies already up, sir?
34:52Doro, I'm not going to go into these tactical issues of how well they are prepared and how good they are or how bad they are.
35:01Suffice to say that they can do what they wish.
35:08If we need to hit them, we will hit them.
35:11One way or the other.
35:12It's as simple as that.
35:13Oh, interesting.
35:16And perhaps is it that they know it and that is why they've just announced an extension of NOTAM
35:22or this notice to airmen to declare a no-fly zone over Lahore and Islamabad
35:27and they keep extending it by 48 hours.
35:30Now, are they anticipating that this time it won't just be in POJK
35:34or the Indian Air Force won't just enter through POJK?
35:36But as the Pakistanis or the Punjabi Pakistani, Musulman calls it,
35:41the strike could be in proper Pakistan, their Punjab province?
35:46Yeah, proper Pakistan was also in the 2019 strike.
35:55So it could be anywhere in Pakistan.
35:58Now, I mean, these are things which the people who are going to execute this task know.
36:04You and me can speculate till the cows come home as to where we are going to hit them
36:09or when, how, when, where.
36:15That is a question which only the planners and the people who are going to execute the missions will know
36:22and not us. And actually, we need not know.
36:25It is not our business to know what's going to happen in the coming hours or days, as I said.
36:32I like the way you say in the coming hours and days.
36:36And perhaps this explains Pakistan's very aggressive posturing and their combat air patrols
36:43where they have their fighter jets up in the air, they have their AVAX up in the air.
36:47But I want to understand from you, sir, because even after 26-11, you had not only war-gamed it,
36:54you had made certain suggestions to the, to then Dr. Manmohan Singh government.
36:59Would it be enough to hit a terrorist camp or a launch pad?
37:04Or when you're using your fighter jets, you'd rather hit the source of terror, the Pakistan army.
37:11They bled us, we bleed the Pakistan army or the, you know, Air Force bleeds the Pakistan army
37:17or hit their war-fighting capabilities, degrade their war-fighting capabilities
37:22or would that invite massive retaliation and escalation where they could strike at our garrisons?
37:29Our Prime Minister has made it very, very clear what we want to hit, what we want to eliminate.
37:37So, I mean, I'm not going to leave it to anyone's imagination to wonder what we're going to hit
37:45because they said not just the terrorists but the source of terrorism.
37:49Now, what does that mean?
37:54Explain that to us, sir. What does that mean?
37:58I mean, it very simply means that the people who are perpetrating terror
38:02and that is the state of Pakistan.
38:07But the state of Pakistan, as you know, I've been hearing a lot of commentators even in Pakistan
38:13and they are trying to reassure, their Air Force is trying to reassure them,
38:17their commentators and their political leaders, they are trying to reassure them
38:20that they are a nuclear weapons state and they have those power kilo nuclear bombs,
38:26bombs, as they say, you know, those small yield nuclear devices.
38:32If their country is threatened, they could retaliate.
38:35But does it mean that one airstrike and they will, you know, do we know the nuclear threshold?
38:41Don't we, sir? What is your appreciation?
38:43As far as I'm concerned, this nuclear bogey has been carrying on for the past God knows how many decades.
38:52And I wish they used that, you know, whatever they call it, a quarter pound or quarter kilo bomb.
38:59What are they going to achieve with that?
39:02Do they even realize that by using that, you open the entire ambit of nuclear strikes from our side?
39:09That's our policy.
39:12Whether it's a quarter pound or 200 pounds, it doesn't matter.
39:17So, I mean, I hope they do because that is the biggest regret that they'll ever face.
39:24And I pity the people of Pakistan if these guys, their political and military leadership ever thinks about it.
39:31So, you know, is that your appreciation that the nuclear threat is just a bogey?
39:40Because they would love international attention.
39:44They could, you know, do some public posturing like we've seen in different parts of the world.
39:50The moment the war gets too hot or they do not want an escalation, they start displaying their nuclear assets.
39:58Whether it's a missile or a launcher or carrying out an exercise like we saw between Russia, you know, like we saw Russia did at that point of time.
40:08But are we concerned about what Pakistan could do or just that could result in India launching a bigger preemptive retaliatory conventional strike?
40:19Gaurav, you know, after this, you know, what the prime minister said recently, after meeting with the military leadership of the country.
40:33We must understand one thing, that certain aims and objectives have already been worked out by the government and the political leadership.
40:47These objectives have been given to the armed forces and the armed forces have been told that you carry them out in a manner you wish and in the time frame you decide.
40:58Now, if that has been done, I'm 100% sure that every single escalatory factor has been factored in.
41:11So at the moment, what we need to do is to have and repose immense faith in our political and military leadership about the actions which are likely to be taken, as I said, in hours or days and leave it at that.
41:30That is what will happen.
41:33We can keep speculating, as I said, till the cows come home.
41:37But you will never know what actually is going to happen in the coming hours and days.
41:42And 2019, we did not have the Rafals, we did not have the scalps and meteors, the beyond visual range missiles, and we did not even have the S-400 air defense system.
41:53Now, does that put India on a stronger footing, on a stronger wicket, vis-a-vis Pakistan?
41:59Or would they also have war-gamed something to come around it?
42:03Because, you know, your assessment of the Pakistani Air Force as on dates, they are getting a lot of military hardware, even if it's second-hand and perhaps an older vintage from China.
42:12Be that as it may, every country will try to improve its defense capability and preparedness every single day.
42:29I mean, as I just mentioned just before this, that all these things what you are talking about have already been factored in.
42:37We know exactly what they have, what their capabilities are.
42:40And any action which will be planned will factor this in.
42:46So we know where they are, where we are, and what kind of action is required for us to come out victorious.
42:57And in your appreciation, the way you read the Pakistani mind, do things like Indus Waters Treaty being held in abeyance,
43:05does that send out a clearer message to Pakistan, would a kinetic operation, a kinetic operation send out a better message to Pakistan, you know, air,
43:15that perhaps, as some of the commentators said, has a bigger impact, you know, because that takes away their fizzaya or their sense of superiority that they had of their air power.
43:26The fact that so many of our fighter jets went in, struck and came back, and they could do nothing about it,
43:32and the next day they could not come in to our territory.
43:35But, but, they've also worked out some of their tactics, so have we.
43:39Are we on a stronger footing in your appreciation today, vis-a-vis 2019?
43:45Are we in a better position to inflict that pain, not just on terrorists?
43:49That time it was terrorists.
43:50This time it has to be the Pakistan Army.
43:53Gaurav, this time around, it's a whole of government approach.
44:00Where diplomatic, economic, and other measures, which you and me will never know,
44:07what is in the office, are already happening.
44:11And you're very right, that compared to 2019, the Indian Air Force, and indeed the other two services,
44:23are much better equipped, much better prepared, than during that time.
44:29And with that kind of robust system, that has been put in place in this country.
44:38Sorry.
44:40God bless you.
44:40Go on, sir.
44:42And the Prime Minister facing immense faith, not just in the armed forces,
44:50but through the very many meetings he's had in the past 24, 48 hours,
44:55he has placed immense faith in every single stakeholder who's in the security calculus,
45:05national security calculus of this country,
45:08and empowered them to do what has been specified by the political leadership.
45:18Now, if that has been done,
45:19every single move, whether it's Indus Water Treaty,
45:25or for that matter, any other financial and other actions which you are going to take,
45:32have already been approved.
45:36So, this is…
45:38Go on, sir.
45:39And therefore, what we need to do is sit back and see how these,
45:49all these actions and provisions made by the government unfold,
45:53as I say again in the next few hours or days.
45:56And to those who say,
45:59it should have been done by now,
46:02why are they waiting?
46:04There'll be too much international pressure if we don't do it now.
46:07Pakistan is anyway seeking international pressure.
46:10Pakistan will try and make some promises that they will, you know, do something.
46:14And that they're saying, let there be an independent probe,
46:17an impartial third-party probe.
46:19So, somebody who has suffered through 2611 Mumbai terror attacks,
46:24where Pakistan carried out an investigation and did nothing,
46:27or in Pathan court, again hitting one of our air bases,
46:30where they registered an FIR, ISI came in and yet did nothing.
46:34What would you say to those who are saying,
46:36let there be a third-party independent investigation?
46:40I would ask them to go to hell.
46:42And secondly, you know, there will be reactions from all quarters.
46:52But let me tell you one thing.
46:56In the present world order,
46:59nobody in the world is going to give a damn what we do to Pakistan.
47:04Haven't we had enough examples?
47:06What is Israel doing to the Hamas, to the Palestinians?
47:10What are the Russians doing to the Ukrainians?
47:18Okay.
47:19But, sir, neither Hamas nor Ukraine are nuclear weapon states.
47:23It doesn't matter.
47:24It doesn't matter.
47:28How does it matter?
47:29I mean, why are we getting so...
47:32And don't forget one more thing.
47:35There are nuclear watchdogs all around the world.
47:39And the nuclear arsenal of every single country is being monitored very closely.
47:48And I'm quite sure that Pakistan, being what it is,
47:56is perhaps the prime suspect to use the nuclear weapons in a manner
48:05which is not what nuclear weapons are meant for.
48:09And we have many supporters around the world
48:14who will ensure that these weapons are never, ever used by Pakistan.
48:23Even if they have an Islamist, a radical Islamist, as their army chief?
48:30They can have anyone as their chief.
48:37Okay.
48:38Air Chief Marshal, Fali Homi Major,
48:40you always call a spade a spade.
48:42From the time that you were commanding that airbase in Leh,
48:45it's always such a privilege talking to you
48:47and learning so much from you.
48:50Air Chief Marshal Major,
48:51many thanks for joining me here on India Today.
48:54Thank you, Gaurav.
48:56The pertinent point that Air Chief Marshal,
48:58Fali Homi Major also makes is,
49:01anybody who says,
49:02get an independent third-party probe
49:05can go to hell.
49:07Why?
49:08There's a reason for it.
49:10Pakistan, under international pressure,
49:12carried out a probe into 2611 Mumbai terror attacks.
49:16That mastermind of terror,
49:17Hafiz Mohammed Said,
49:18he was responsible for the terror attack.
49:21Pakistan even put him in jail for some time.
49:23FIA, Pakistan's Federal Investigation Agency,
49:26carried out that investigation.
49:28They confirmed that the terrorists,
49:29the 10 terrorists who came were from Pakistan,
49:31they were trained in Thatta Sindh.
49:34They matched the casings of explosives
49:36that were used in Mumbai
49:38to the casings that were found at Karachi,
49:41in Thatta, in Sindh,
49:42where the training happened.
49:43They found that control room
49:45from where the terrorists were directed.
49:47They arrested these terrorists.
49:49What they also did was,
49:51when India asked for a voice sample,
49:53that's when ISI stepped in.
49:55They said,
49:56no, we will not give voice samples.
49:58Nothing happened to that probe.
49:59So a Pakistani probe
50:01is not worth the paper it's written on.
50:05Now, Prime Minister Narendra Modi
50:06permitted Pakistan to come
50:08to the Pathankot airbase
50:10and ISI came with,
50:11they investigated.
50:12Nawaz Sharif had an FIR registered
50:14in Pakistan.
50:16The CTD or the Counter Terror Department,
50:18they registered an FIR also
50:19in the Pathankot terror attack.
50:21Jaish-e-Mohammad was named.
50:23Did they investigate?
50:24Did they carry out action?
50:26So no investigation by Pakistan
50:28is, it's frankly,
50:30only a face saver
50:33and a tactics to buy time,
50:35deflect pressure,
50:36train its people better
50:38and launch them once again.
50:39So no independent third-party probe
50:41or any probe will work.
50:43Pakistan is right now
50:44scrambling to save its terror assets.
50:47It's a fact.
50:47I get you an India Today world exclusive.
50:49Pakistan has increased security
50:51for Lashkar-e-Taiba chief
50:53and the founder of Lashkar-e-Taiba
50:55and a UN-designated terrorist,
50:57Hafiz Mohamed Said.
50:58And I want you to see on this map
51:01where he is being hidden
51:03because India today
51:04has tracked him down.
51:06This is a satellite picture.
51:08That's right.
51:08That's a satellite picture
51:10of Hafiz Mohamed Said's safe house
51:13in Lahore.
51:14Imagine in the heart
51:16of Pakistan's Punjab province,
51:18these pictures have been accessed
51:19exclusively by India today.
51:21The satellite image shows
51:22three properties
51:23in a very densely populated area of Lahore.
51:26Remember how Osama bin Laden
51:28was protected in Abbottabad,
51:30barely 200 meters
51:31from Pakistan Military Academy
51:33at Karkul,
51:34hidden in plain sight.
51:35That's exactly how Hafiz Said
51:37is also being hidden
51:38in plain sight.
51:39So take a look at this
51:40building number one.
51:42Building number one
51:43is Hafiz Said's residence.
51:45Building number two,
51:46the one that you see next to it,
51:48building number two
51:49that's a large mosque.
51:51It also has a madrasa.
51:53It's in these madrasas
51:54that they train future terrorists.
51:56Of course,
51:57there's also a residential part of it
51:59where Hafiz Said meets people,
52:00of course,
52:00under tremendous security,
52:03protected by Pakistan army commandos
52:05is what we are told.
52:06Property number three
52:07is a newly created private park
52:09with personal health facilities
52:11for Hafiz Mohamed Said.
52:13So this is how Pakistan protects
52:16and treats its most precious asset.
52:21Ankit Kumar gets you more
52:22in this report.
52:24Hafiz Mohamed Said,
52:28Lashkar-e-Taiba chief,
52:30the Pahlgaam attack mastermind.
52:35India's most wanted
52:36an enemy number one.
52:39It was as terror proxies
52:40that unleashed terror
52:41on Indian civilians
52:42on April 22nd.
52:44The terror mastermind
52:45continues to live
52:46in Pakistani protection.
52:47Here's the proof.
52:52India today has tracked down
52:53the current location
52:54of Hafiz Said.
52:55He lives in Lahore
52:57in a densely populated colony
52:59under heavy security
53:00provided by the Pakistani government.
53:03Right besides this highway,
53:05right besides this highway,
53:07there is this posh locality.
53:09Within this posh locality,
53:11there are three structures
53:12that I want to focus on.
53:14This structure is where
53:16Hafiz Said,
53:17the Lashkar chief
53:18lives with his family.
53:20The structure,
53:21the second structure
53:22that is slightly bigger
53:23that will come up
53:25on your screens,
53:26this one,
53:27this one houses a mosque,
53:29a madrasa
53:30and a residential complex
53:32as well.
53:32So this is his home.
53:34This is his work office.
53:38India today has also
53:39exclusively accessed
53:40videos of Hafiz Said's
53:42Lahore safe house.
53:43This is how
53:44the terror den looks.
53:47In one of the exclusive videos
53:49accessed by India today,
53:51a man can be heard
53:52speaking to personal security
53:53of Hafiz Said about them.
53:55in another video,
54:01a man can be seen
54:03giving out details
54:04about two buildings
54:05standing at a vantage point.
54:06In a third video,
54:18a man can be seen
54:20in a third video,
54:32a policeman guarding Hafiz Said
54:33can be seen pushing a car.
54:36Another man in the video
54:37details buildings
54:38around the hideout.
54:39Satellite pictures
54:49and video footage
54:50exclusively accessed
54:51by India Today
54:52show how India's
54:53most wanted terrorist
54:54hides on the plain sight.
54:57Globally designated
54:58terrorist leader
54:59living among common people
55:01in the middle
55:02of a Pakistani city.
55:04With Arvind Oja
55:05and Ankit Kumar,
55:06Bureau Report,
55:07India Today.
55:08Will he be brought
55:13to justice?
55:14If Pakistan means business,
55:16will Pakistan act?
55:18We'll track the story
55:18very closely.
55:19That is all I have for you
55:20on India First this evening.
55:22Many thanks for watching.