Sudan fighting rages: Doctors say nearly 100 civilians killed in bombardments
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Transcript
00:00 Joining me now is Alam Ahmed.
00:02 He's an academic and the founder of the forum Sudan Knowledge.
00:06 He joins us from London.
00:07 Thank you very much indeed, sir, for finding the time
00:09 to talk to us today.
00:11 Thank you very much.
00:12 My pleasure.
00:14 First of all, I don't know if you're
00:15 able to be in touch with people on the ground today.
00:18 But can you give us a sense as to what the situation is
00:21 like now for civilians after three days of apparently very
00:25 heavy fighting?
00:27 Yes, I have been in touch.
00:28 And also, I've been following the news from all
00:30 the other channels, Arabic ones.
00:32 The situation is getting worse and conflicting information
00:36 about who got what and who managed to control what.
00:40 But for the civilians, two versions of stories.
00:44 One of them, some have been able this early morning
00:48 after being out of their homes for two days
00:50 to be able to return to their homes.
00:52 They said the military allowed them to walk back homes.
00:55 This is just according to some videos I have watched.
01:01 On the other hand, the doctors union
01:05 have reported the situation is getting worse.
01:08 And there are dead bodies on the street.
01:09 And they are actually asking or requesting even
01:12 from the United Nations to allow them
01:15 to some kind of safe corridors.
01:19 So these dead bodies can be picked up from the streets.
01:25 So the death toll is getting high.
01:28 Less civilian being killed.
01:30 But again, the number of those who are in the random shooting
01:34 is a little bit less.
01:35 But there is still fighting going on.
01:37 Indeed.
01:37 And as you suggest, there was this sort of attempt
01:40 at a truce over the weekend to allow some civilians to get out
01:44 of areas where the fighting is very intense.
01:46 That truce didn't really last, did it?
01:48 So now, as we look into a new week,
01:51 do you think there is some hope of a peaceful resolution
01:55 at the moment?
01:57 Unfortunately, no.
01:59 But I tell you two things.
02:00 I was listening to the military's boxman,
02:03 the official's boxman.
02:04 He was speaking around two hours ago.
02:08 And he said the army is trying to minimize the casualties
02:15 by trying to handle this war in a way they will make sure they
02:20 will not have more civilian being killed.
02:23 The rapid support forces are now having snipers
02:28 on lots of buildings on top.
02:31 And according to the military's boxman,
02:33 they said they can shoot those people on the snipers.
02:37 But the problem, they are on the top of buildings, which
02:40 all have been either government buildings
02:43 or they are building for civilians.
02:44 So the two tactics are making this going to be prolonged.
02:50 That's number one.
02:51 Number two, despite the conflicting stories
02:54 we've been hearing from last night and this morning,
02:57 interestingly, the military's boxman
02:59 confirmed in one of the Arab channels
03:02 I was listening to that the rapid support group,
03:09 they actually have taken Marawi Airport.
03:11 Yes, he said that was correct, which is good.
03:15 In a sense, he acknowledged what is actually happening.
03:19 And he said he's acknowledging it because he does not want
03:21 to provide any false information.
03:23 But at the same time, he confirmed
03:26 this is just a matter of time.
03:27 They will take over the airport again.
03:30 And also, he reminded the viewers--
03:34 this is his boxman of the military.
03:35 He said, the fact you see fire on any military base,
03:39 that doesn't mean the rapid support forces
03:42 have taken that building.
03:44 That means they have just put fire on the building.
03:47 So we start to understand some of what is happening.
03:54 We start to see unfolding stories.
03:56 But to answer your question, it is not
03:58 going in a more peaceful conclusion.
04:02 It's still fighting on.
04:04 Indeed, and the situation on the ground, pretty unclear.
04:07 It's hard for us to ascertain what the army is doing,
04:10 what the RSF is doing, who could be trusted here.
04:13 But one thing we do apparently know
04:15 is that it's only the National Army that has war planes.
04:19 The RSF doesn't.
04:20 Does that suggest to you that at some point,
04:23 if there's no peaceful resolution,
04:25 the RSF will be simply outgunned,
04:28 and that's actually how this fighting will end?
04:30 Yes, that's totally true.
04:32 And all the people who have been experts on military operation
04:36 have been listening to--
04:37 that's a fact.
04:38 The military will definitely have the upper hand.
04:41 The only thing is prolonging this process
04:43 to be concluded that the rapid support forces,
04:47 they are very experienced in militia kind of war.
04:52 And the tactic they have used, they
04:54 went inside civilians' compounds, buildings
04:59 within different districts.
05:02 And the military's boxman himself,
05:05 he said they used the tactic of having snipers
05:09 on the top of buildings.
05:11 So they are just making it very difficult
05:13 for the military to use the airplanes
05:16 or to use this equipment, which could easily
05:20 conclude this quickly.
05:22 But that can help them, and the military
05:25 can have another hand quickly on areas like airports,
05:29 like anything outside towns.
05:31 But unfortunately, the rapid support forces,
05:36 they are very experienced on the small militia tactic one.
05:39 But definitely, the army will have the upper hand.
05:42 Sooner or later.
05:43 And just finally, one last point on the sort
05:46 of international actors that are--
05:50 well, there are fears that they'll become more involved
05:52 now.
05:52 I'm thinking particularly of Egypt,
05:54 because there are these reports that Egyptian soldiers have
05:57 apparently been captured by the rapid support forces.
06:00 The rapid support forces are actually blaming Egypt
06:03 for some airstrikes, saying warplanes were taking off
06:05 from an Egyptian camp inside Sudan.
06:09 Do you think then Egypt might be more fully drawn
06:12 into this fighting?
06:15 This is the main concern, really,
06:17 because from one side, General Burhan,
06:21 he kept confirming that he doesn't
06:23 want any intervention from any or any support
06:25 from any governments.
06:26 Although some government offers that.
06:28 Egypt and South Sudan, they also offer to mediate.
06:31 But the rapid support forces, they
06:33 see Egypt as not an honest broker here.
06:38 So to be very frank, the situation
06:41 with Egypt military apparatus being involved in Sudan
06:44 is 50-50.
06:46 It's possible from one side, because Egypt
06:48 is very keen on ensuring security in their neighbors.
06:51 And from the other side, the military
06:55 is very keen for Egypt not to be intervening.
06:57 Then it will cause chaos in the country.
06:59 And that this role with them, it will become something
07:02 out of control.
07:03 So we just have to wait and watch.
07:07 Alaa Mahmood, thank you very much indeed, sir, for your time on the programme today.
07:10 My pleasure.