Join Taylor Kyles of CLNS Media and Khari Thompson of WBUR as they go LIVE to discuss observations from Day 3 of Patriots training camp.
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#Patriots #NFL #NewEnglandPatriots
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SportsTranscript
00:00 - All right, we live now.
00:01 Okay, and as Ray over on the chat said,
00:04 we are fashionably late.
00:05 It's my fault.
00:06 I will take responsibility for that.
00:08 Look, I had kid stuff, bro.
00:10 I got a three and a half year old I gotta take care of,
00:12 but now I'm here with you,
00:13 ready to talk Patriots, Patriots Daily with CLNS Media.
00:17 I'm Kyrie Thompson.
00:19 That's Taylor Kyle's over there.
00:21 What is going on?
00:22 It was hot out there, bro.
00:24 I can only imagine.
00:25 Look, I spent the last two years out there
00:28 hanging out at training camp with the sun beating down
00:30 on you in no shade.
00:32 Because look, if you're sitting under the tent,
00:33 you're not doing it right
00:35 'cause you can't see nothing under there.
00:36 So how are you feeling, bro?
00:38 - Honestly, I was excited enough
00:40 that I didn't realize how hot I was.
00:42 But yeah, like me and Brian Hines,
00:44 like we were sitting on the,
00:45 like right at the edge 'cause we can't see anything.
00:48 Man, I had my little, one of those like neck fans.
00:51 I had that going.
00:52 I had my little bucket hat and everything.
00:55 I was trying my best to stay cool
00:56 and it was not working.
00:58 - No, no.
00:58 - It was a good day at camp though,
01:00 so that definitely helped.
01:01 - Absolutely.
01:02 Okay, look, I gotta ask you a question real quick.
01:03 So for me, I low-key liked to sit over on the edge
01:08 with the field goal kicking unit
01:11 so that every once in a while I could try out the hands.
01:13 Have you ever tried to catch one of the kicks
01:15 that come through?
01:16 - None have gotten close enough,
01:17 but I've seen some people get beamed, man.
01:20 Like sometimes people don't like really pay attention.
01:23 They're looking at something else and don't realize
01:24 that there's just field goals flying in their direction.
01:27 I saw somebody get bonked yesterday.
01:28 - Oh no.
01:29 - But unfortunately I have not had my number called
01:31 quite yet.
01:32 - So I had some pretty strong grabs last year.
01:34 I'm not gonna lie.
01:35 Look, okay, I was a former return man myself,
01:38 but I didn't even catch it like this.
01:40 I caught it straight up like this.
01:42 You know what I mean?
01:43 I did the whole receiver hands thing.
01:45 I did drop one.
01:47 It was shameful.
01:48 I'm very sorry to admit that, but you know what?
01:50 I caught a couple that had people like,
01:51 "Ooh, look at you.
01:52 Your hands are improving."
01:53 And I'm just like, "Who do you think this is?"
01:55 Okay, this is what I used to do.
01:57 This is what I used to do for a living.
01:58 Okay, not for a living.
01:59 I didn't make any money off it,
02:01 but okay, let's talk about some Patriots.
02:03 Okay, let's talk about what's been going on at camp.
02:07 We are through day three of training camp
02:10 down there at Gillette Stadium.
02:13 And look, it's still a little early
02:15 'cause I believe it was shells today.
02:17 Was it shells, Taylor?
02:19 - It was shells.
02:19 We graduated from regular shorts and t-shirts
02:22 and we did shorts and t-shirts with bubble wrap.
02:23 It was pretty cool.
02:24 - We're getting so close.
02:25 We're getting close, but look.
02:26 Okay, so shells, so you got the first glimpse of pads here.
02:30 So we haven't seen the real football yet.
02:33 Okay, we're not even necessarily close to a preseason game.
02:36 We still got like two weeks before we get there.
02:39 But I feel like I'm starting to see some familiar patterns
02:44 emerging here with this team.
02:46 And yeah, some of it is because it's red zone work, right?
02:49 But in particular, there's one player
02:52 I've been hearing a lot about
02:55 in terms of impressing both Bill Belichick and the media.
03:00 And that is one of the sixth round receivers
03:03 that was taken this year,
03:04 but not necessarily the one that you might've expected
03:07 based on name brand.
03:10 I'm talking about Demario Douglas.
03:12 'Cause every time, every time I turn on Twitter,
03:16 it's like, "Ooh, Demario Douglas just burned so-and-so.
03:18 Ooh, look, Demario Douglas just caught a cross
03:20 over the middle and he's over here dipping
03:22 and making everybody look slow."
03:24 Taylor Kyles, I wanna know about this.
03:26 What are you seeing from this man?
03:28 - Yeah, well, I mean, he's someone that when they took him,
03:31 I made sure that I wrote like a whole story breaking down
03:34 like what he was doing in college,
03:35 comparing it to some other past Patriots.
03:37 Because even when they drafted him,
03:39 he seemed like somebody who would really fit.
03:41 He's a guy who's really good with the ball in his hands.
03:43 He's got versatility.
03:45 He's undersized, but he has inside and outside versatility.
03:48 And actually, I think we had the sound bite.
03:50 I actually asked Bill Belichick
03:52 because I was noticing Demario Douglas
03:53 getting a lot of work with the starters,
03:55 Mack Jones and all those guys.
03:57 So I thought that was pretty interesting
03:58 'cause he didn't see Keyshawn Booty,
04:00 who was actually picked before him
04:01 and obviously had a more illustrious career at LSU.
04:04 So yeah, I actually asked Bill Belichick
04:06 before practice what he thought
04:08 about Demario Douglas and his progress.
04:10 - My man, Taylor Kyles, sticking his nose in.
04:13 - First Bill Belichick question.
04:14 - First one.
04:15 - That was your first one?
04:16 Let's go. - First time
04:17 I've ever asked him a question.
04:18 - All right, all right, we gotta hear the response, okay?
04:19 'Cause I know there was a good answer to this.
04:22 I think we got that sound here somewhere.
04:24 - What have you seen from Demario Douglas?
04:25 He seems like he's been pretty involved.
04:27 - I think all the rookies have shown up
04:30 positively from time to time.
04:32 They all have a lot to learn, a lot of experience to gain.
04:35 But I think really the whole class has done things
04:40 that kind of caught your eye.
04:43 Instead of, this guy's got a chance to help us here,
04:46 help us there in that role.
04:47 We'll see how much role he can develop.
04:49 Demario's working at returns
04:51 and offensively inside and outside.
04:56 So it's a big jump for him
05:00 from a competition level in college.
05:04 But he seems to be transitioning pretty well.
05:07 He's a smart kid, he picks things up well.
05:09 So learns quickly.
05:12 So it's all things that work in his favor,
05:14 but we'll see how it goes when things
05:16 get more competitive next week.
05:19 - So if I'm gonna sit up here
05:21 and play a little Bill Belichick whisperer here, okay?
05:24 Because that's one of the most fun sciences to try
05:29 when you're covering the Patriots beat, okay?
05:31 I heard a couple of things that I like from that.
05:35 Yeah, you heard like, "Oh, rookies are doing well
05:38 "and it's an adjustment and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah."
05:40 But what I heard was he's smart, he picks things up quickly,
05:44 he's working inside and outside,
05:47 and he's working on returns.
05:50 These are all good things if you're thinking
05:53 about Demario Douglas possibly making this team
05:56 because he's doing a little bit of everything possible
06:00 to make himself attractive to be on the roster.
06:02 And yes, you wanna see production from him
06:06 in a backup role.
06:08 He'll catch some passes, make some plays, et cetera.
06:10 But in the end, when you look at the wide receiver room,
06:14 what is his role gonna be?
06:15 He's going to be like wide receiver five at most, okay?
06:20 Because you got at least four guys ahead of him in there.
06:22 And then of course you've got the Gassikis
06:25 and the Hunter Henrys of the world
06:27 that are gonna be pass catching options ahead of him.
06:30 So we're not looking at Demario Douglas
06:32 like he's going to make an impact
06:34 that much as a pass catcher as a rookie.
06:37 But if he can make an impact on special teams
06:41 as a gunner, as a return man,
06:45 that is going to be monstrous for him.
06:48 And again, size,
06:49 you mentioned that he's a little bit under size.
06:51 Size doesn't always matter that much
06:54 to the New England Patriots.
06:56 I mean, look at, they've had JJ Taylor on this roster
06:59 or like around the team for like five years, okay?
07:03 And this brother's like, he's my size, okay?
07:05 He's like five, five, generous.
07:07 - He really stands out.
07:07 He really stands out on the football field.
07:09 There was one drill for punt a couple of days ago
07:12 where he was blocked by like Sean Wade and Amir Speed.
07:14 And I'm not being mean or like trying to be funny.
07:16 I literally couldn't see him.
07:17 There was a point where I was like,
07:18 who are they blocking right now?
07:21 And then they kind of split up.
07:22 I was like, oh, it's JJ, that makes sense.
07:24 - Taylor, I'm sorry.
07:24 That's nasty work, okay?
07:26 Do not, you're really disrespecting
07:30 the short Kings out here, bro.
07:31 But okay, look, look.
07:32 - He's on an NFL roster and I'm not.
07:34 - He's on an NFL roster.
07:36 But look, if you're going to be on an NFL roster,
07:39 I mean, you're going to get at that size.
07:41 You're going to get blocked by people
07:42 who are bigger than you.
07:43 And that's just life.
07:44 But I mean, the bottom line is,
07:46 I think that it's too early to say anything
07:49 through three days of training camp.
07:51 But DeMario Douglas sounds like he's doing everything
07:54 he needs to do to make this team.
07:56 What'd you think?
07:57 - Yeah, so you already saw him getting involved.
08:00 His impact on the field wasn't anything too crazy.
08:03 But today I think it was more the volume.
08:05 Like he's mostly been the guy
08:06 who's catching underneath passes.
08:08 But today you really saw,
08:09 I think he caught like three, maybe four,
08:12 where he got it short,
08:12 but you saw how quickly he gets to top speed.
08:14 Like he gets the ball, the acceleration's really good.
08:17 And you're thinking about what his role is going to be.
08:20 Most likely, like you said,
08:21 they have a lot of people ahead of him, a lot of veterans.
08:23 So it's going to be hard to even crack the field.
08:25 But offensively, you're thinking
08:27 kind of that Marcus Jones role, where he's a gadget guy.
08:29 You kind of give him some design touches.
08:31 And it's going to be interesting
08:33 how much they let Marcus Jones return kicks.
08:36 Because he right now is starting on defense.
08:38 He looks really good, I thought.
08:40 Obviously the size, you know, that's always a component.
08:42 But at the same time, he's been productive.
08:44 He's always competitive.
08:45 I think he's a really smart player.
08:47 If the Patriots decide we want to keep Marcus Jones,
08:50 you know, as a defensive player,
08:51 just preserve his health and what have you,
08:53 that's where I think DeMario Douglas
08:54 can kind of sneak in, make more of an impact.
08:56 And then if he does really well,
08:59 then they say, okay, we need to see more of him.
09:01 And I do think he has the route running chops.
09:03 When you saw in college, he buries his pace in routes.
09:06 He uses head fakes.
09:07 He's more physical than you would expect.
09:10 He actually is 190 pounds at 5'8".
09:11 So he's got good muscle on him.
09:13 - He's thick, yeah.
09:14 - And be competitive, yeah.
09:15 And you see, like, he's swiping guys away.
09:17 He's kind of leaning in and then breaking away.
09:19 So as a route runner, he's more nuanced
09:21 than you might expect from someone
09:22 who's going to start out as a gadget guy.
09:24 But yeah, and also there was,
09:26 most impressive play I thought he had
09:28 was against Jack Jones.
09:29 Now, Jack Jones has mostly been with the twos,
09:31 but we know Jack Jones is a good player.
09:33 So he's been dominant.
09:34 Like every single day,
09:34 he's getting a couple pass breakups at least.
09:37 - Right.
09:37 - Against Demario Douglas, there was a rep
09:39 where Demario had a jump ball opportunity,
09:41 went up and caught the ball over Jack Jones.
09:44 And we're seeing a lot of these jump ball opportunities.
09:46 Not a lot of the depth guys,
09:47 and even some of the starting receivers
09:49 aren't always coming down with these
09:50 'cause the defensive backs are so competitive.
09:52 Demario came down with it.
09:54 I don't know what his feet were in
09:56 because it was all the way on the other side of the field.
09:58 Like I could not possibly see.
10:01 But it was still very impressive
10:02 that he came down with the catch.
10:03 Like footwork and all that,
10:04 that's something that comes with time.
10:06 You have receivers who still are kind of playing
10:08 with one foot inbounds.
10:09 So, you know, those are things where you understand
10:10 that footwork near the sideline
10:12 is a skill that you develop.
10:14 But to see him, like Belichick said, he can play outside.
10:17 So to be able to show some level of physicality
10:19 and big boy ball at his size,
10:21 I thought was really impressive.
10:23 I think his stock is,
10:24 you know, I'm not gonna act like he's necessarily
10:26 like a Marcus Jones where it's like, buy stock now.
10:29 But he's someone I think it's pretty fair
10:30 to be excited about because,
10:32 especially he's talking to him.
10:32 He was one of the first people
10:33 I was able to interview on the field.
10:35 Seems like a really, really nice dude.
10:38 He's been praised by several people
10:39 for his intelligence and his work ethic.
10:41 So you know he's gonna put in the work behind the scenes.
10:43 And I really liked the physical prospect as well.
10:45 - I'm just saying, it's impressive
10:47 that they actually gave him to you
10:48 because Patriots media can be very stingy with the rookies.
10:53 Which, I mean, I think some of that
10:54 is just keep them focused.
10:56 But yo, more power to you for making that happen.
10:59 A couple of points before we move on,
11:01 'cause there's one point that you made
11:02 that I wanna seize on, okay?
11:05 Now I wanna get to the Marcus Jones thing
11:08 because I think Marcus Jones being what is,
11:11 he was an all pro punt returner last year.
11:14 I think that's something you don't necessarily
11:16 wanna take him off of completely.
11:18 But if you can have somebody take the kick returns,
11:22 I think that's the one that I feel like,
11:25 if there are gonna be kick return opportunities,
11:27 you'd probably rather Marcus Jones not be doing that.
11:29 But in terms of punt returns,
11:30 where it's a little bit like, okay, make one man miss
11:32 and then you can get going.
11:34 I feel like you don't necessarily want
11:36 to remove Marcus Jones from that,
11:37 unless you think DeMario Douglas is so good
11:40 that you absolutely just like, okay, well,
11:43 we're not losing a whole lot.
11:45 And in that case, wow, okay, we will absolutely take that.
11:49 And in regards to, again, we've seen this
11:52 in the past couple of years with hot shot receivers
11:56 having good days when it's shells or when it's no pads.
12:00 And then they kind of fizzle out with time.
12:02 And it's usually the smaller receivers.
12:04 Like for example, Trey Nixon is a pretty good example
12:06 of this, it feels like most years he's been on the team.
12:11 I believe this is gonna be his like third year on the team.
12:15 He'll make a play, he'll make big plays
12:18 when the pads are off.
12:19 And then once the pads come on,
12:21 then you start to see some drops and stuff like that.
12:23 You don't see the consistent production.
12:25 So we need to see that more from DeMario Douglas.
12:28 But it's worth just noting that he seems to be doing
12:30 the right things right now.
12:32 I wanna mention, 'cause you talked about him coming down
12:35 with that play over Jack Jones.
12:36 You're talking about the separation that necessarily
12:41 hasn't been happening for the wide receivers.
12:45 And I guess I wanna talk about that
12:48 in terms of adding context.
12:50 Because as you and I have mentioned, it's red zone.
12:53 Okay, as I kind of said, it was low red zone
12:56 the first couple of days, or like the first day,
12:59 and then they moved to the high red zone.
13:00 But they're still very much in the red zone area right now.
13:04 They haven't expanded the field.
13:06 So maybe that's why you're not seeing
13:08 so much of Taekwon Thornton.
13:10 Mike Giesicki is supposed to be better down there.
13:12 So you're kind of wondering why he isn't
13:13 being more productive.
13:14 But it's also a situation where Mike Giesicki
13:18 referenced this a little bit in terms of
13:22 why the offense hasn't been standing out more.
13:26 Okay, because I think that that's been
13:27 a theme with the tweet.
13:29 So if we could pull up that audio,
13:31 'cause our amazing producer, Amit, pulled it for us.
13:35 So you can go ahead and play what Mike Giesicki
13:37 had to say about the offense
13:40 and how they are doing right now.
13:42 Because I think that's something
13:43 Patriots fans need to hear.
13:45 - Right now, just taking it day by day.
13:49 And looking forward to continue to progress
13:52 and just work on timing, communication,
13:55 in and out of the huddle, all the basics right now,
13:57 just because it's so early.
13:58 And I know everybody's excited
14:00 and everybody wants to talk about something right now.
14:02 But we still got ways to go until that first game
14:05 and all that kind of stuff.
14:06 - Mike, what have you learned about your offense?
14:09 I know it's still early.
14:10 - Yeah.
14:11 - Three days of practice and skills for your tactics.
14:13 - Definitely been disciplined.
14:14 Hasn't been a lot of guys jumping off sides.
14:16 Hasn't been a lot of guys lining up in the wrong spots
14:19 or making mental errors.
14:20 And I think that's the biggest part.
14:21 We, you know, Coach Belichick says, you know,
14:23 before you win, you must keep from losing.
14:25 And that's kind of something that we got to take,
14:26 you know, day in and day out,
14:28 because a lot of teams in the league will beat themselves.
14:30 So if we're going to be one of the teams
14:31 that'll be disciplined and, you know,
14:33 not be one of the teams that's going to beat themselves,
14:35 it'll give you a much higher percentage chance of,
14:37 you know, winning.
14:37 And I think that that's what this place
14:38 has prided themselves on for, you know, a long, long time,
14:40 is, you know, being disciplined, being in the right spots,
14:43 being, you know, where you're supposed to be,
14:44 when you're supposed to be, and, you know,
14:46 not beating yourself.
14:47 - That was the quote of camp.
14:50 Or like any availability you've had.
14:53 Like all the stuff that I'm usually trying to say
14:55 to like calm people down, like he absolutely nailed it.
14:59 So, yeah, I mean, first of all, like Patriots fans
15:03 got a front row seat to how it works out
15:06 when you are beating yourselves.
15:08 And we are the team that makes mistakes.
15:09 And frankly, it did fly under the radar
15:11 how often they weren't, I didn't even realize it.
15:14 Yeah, he's right.
15:15 They weren't making mistakes.
15:16 They weren't offsides, you know,
15:17 the no false starts or anything like that.
15:19 They really are doing the right things.
15:21 And like he said, they have a long, long way to go.
15:24 Obviously, like we got media and all these things,
15:27 and, you know, just the climate that we're in,
15:29 everybody wants results now,
15:31 but that's not how it works,
15:32 especially when you don't have the luxury of carryover
15:34 in your coordinator and not, you know,
15:36 wholesale carryover in your receiving course.
15:38 So I just thought that was a spot on analysis from Gussiki
15:42 and just said a lot of things that people needed to hear.
15:44 - Yes, and again, I understand that it gets annoying, right?
15:48 That we keep on coming on here and say like,
15:51 oh, you know, it's not pads yet, or it's early.
15:54 They're still just doing install.
15:56 I understand.
15:57 Everybody wants to hear like,
15:58 yo, the offense is looking like a well-oiled machine.
16:01 The thing is, no offense or defense
16:04 is gonna be completely perfect three days into this.
16:07 And again, it's not even just about the fact
16:10 that they're on red zone.
16:11 We talked about this on the last pod.
16:13 The defense is more or less set.
16:15 It's the same defense they've been running.
16:17 And most of the personnel on defense is back, okay?
16:21 You don't have a whole lot of new pieces on defense
16:24 that have to learn this whole thing.
16:25 You know, you got like Marte Mappu, right?
16:28 Basically everybody else on that defense was there last year
16:31 or has been there multiple years.
16:33 On the offensive side, you've got a couple of new pieces
16:36 and you have an entirely new offense
16:39 from what you ran last year.
16:40 And yeah, I know with Bill O'Brien,
16:41 he's been here before and he's done, you know,
16:46 like so, so much in the past, but it's still new.
16:50 It's still kind of new verbiage.
16:52 You have to unlearn what you learned last year.
16:55 And that has kind of a double meaning.
16:57 You have to just unlearn period,
16:58 but you also have to unlearn some of the bad habits.
17:01 And I think that at this point,
17:03 it's just a good thing to know
17:04 that the operation is going smoothly.
17:06 And that gives me hope that the results will come.
17:11 Now, real quick, I just wanna say,
17:14 I saw Lakeville, Mass, you know,
17:17 Lakeville, Massachusetts guy here.
17:18 Let's talk about Bailey Zappi
17:20 coming for that number one quarterback job.
17:22 He ain't coming for nothing right now.
17:26 Like let's put this away.
17:28 Let's not do this.
17:31 We're not gonna do this right now.
17:32 Mack Jones might not have the best training camp stats.
17:35 I promise you, they don't care.
17:38 - Context matters.
17:40 - They don't care.
17:42 They don't care if he went four for 11
17:46 in seven on sevens in, you know,
17:50 day three of training camp where there's no pads.
17:52 It doesn't matter.
17:55 Okay.
17:56 So. - Oh my God.
17:57 Oh my God.
17:58 - You media stooge.
18:01 - I'm a stooge.
18:02 I'm officially a stooge.
18:04 Let's go.
18:06 I have haters.
18:07 Let's go.
18:08 - Yes, that means you're killing.
18:10 That means you're absolutely killing 'cause you got haters.
18:12 All right, but look, I understand y'all.
18:15 I understand that we want to have clarity, right?
18:19 And we want to know like, look,
18:21 if Mack ain't cutting it,
18:22 are we gonna get Zappi out there?
18:23 Or like, you know, because we want to see playoffs.
18:26 All of us want to see a playoff team.
18:28 I get it.
18:29 But look, we're not gonna know if there's a playoff team
18:32 three days into training camp.
18:33 I do, however, want to get to what this defense is doing
18:37 because the defense looks good as predicted.
18:40 And yes, I get it.
18:42 It's, (laughs)
18:45 again, I get it that it's, you know,
18:47 red zone, et cetera, et cetera.
18:49 But I think the defense is gonna be good.
18:50 But before we do that,
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20:02 to bring you the Patriots Daily Podcast
20:05 with Kyrie Thompson and Taylor Kyles.
20:08 Let's talk about this defense, okay?
20:10 Because in particular, okay,
20:13 we've talked about this a little bit,
20:14 but I think when you talk about patterns emerging,
20:17 I feel like this pattern is clear.
20:20 Jonathan Jones and Christian Gonzalez
20:24 look like you're two starting outside cornerbacks
20:27 for the New England Patriots this year.
20:29 Is that what you're feeling?
20:30 You picking up what I'm putting down?
20:32 - 100%.
20:32 Now, it was interesting because we saw a lot
20:35 of Marcus Jones at outside corner.
20:37 That's obviously where he spent the majority
20:38 of his snaps last season.
20:39 And that's where he was for a lot of camp and OTAs.
20:43 But more recently, especially today,
20:46 we saw him in the slot for most of his team reps,
20:49 which I thought was interesting.
20:50 That's where everybody's wanted him to be,
20:51 obviously, because he's five foot eight.
20:53 He's someone that naturally fits more inside
20:56 where you don't have to contest, you know,
20:57 these X and really tall body types necessarily.
21:01 But yeah, no, it's been Gonzalez and John Jones
21:03 and Marcus Jones in the slot.
21:04 And I thought he had a really great practice today.
21:07 There was one touchdown he allowed
21:09 in the low red zone against Devontae Parker.
21:11 It was a scramble drill.
21:13 Marcus was literally right there contesting it.
21:15 It was a good catch by Parker.
21:16 But then later on in the day,
21:17 you saw that he deflected a pass to Hunter Henry.
21:20 Like he went up and dislodged the ball,
21:23 which is the kind of thing that usually you're scared
21:25 about him being in those positions.
21:26 You don't want him in that position too often.
21:27 Like, you know, I'm sure that Hunter Henry
21:29 is gonna win that if you throw it to him 10 times
21:31 in that situation.
21:33 But still the competitiveness from Marcus Jones.
21:35 And I was saying, if Jack Jones is someone who,
21:39 for whatever reason, isn't able to play as much as we'd like,
21:41 Marcus Jones can step up and be a very good player for you.
21:44 And we're seeing that.
21:45 Now he's getting the starting reps.
21:47 He's doing well.
21:48 You know, he's not someone that looks
21:49 like a liability up there.
21:51 And John Jones, I mean, he had a fantastic day today.
21:54 He was consistently in guys' hips,
21:56 like airtight coverage all the time.
21:58 Had two really impressive breakups against Devante Parker
22:01 that were just typical John Jones,
22:03 where Parker actually had the ball in his hands.
22:05 Like had a good reception, but John Jones,
22:08 you know he plays through the whistle, he fights.
22:10 And right before Parker was able to complete the catch,
22:13 dislodged the pass.
22:15 Like that's what you want to see.
22:16 You know, John Jones, obviously small for an outside corner,
22:19 but because of his ball skills, his technique,
22:22 he's a very, very technically sound player.
22:25 That allows him to still stay competitive.
22:26 So obviously Gonzalez, I think he had his best day at camp.
22:30 'Cause usually he gives up one or two receptions.
22:32 It's not anything where you're like,
22:33 "Oh, this guy, what are we going to do with Gonzalez?"
22:35 It's just, he's learning.
22:36 But today he had two breakups.
22:38 I don't think he allowed any receptions.
22:40 Was smothering guys.
22:41 I mean, this cornerback group is looking fantastic.
22:44 It could be one of the league's best.
22:45 Obviously it's early, we'll see.
22:47 But if Gonzalez, you know, with his athleticism,
22:50 and he plays to it consistently, he's smart.
22:52 He's been in a similar system of the Patriots
22:53 back when he was at Oregon.
22:55 And with all these veterans, you know,
22:56 he's learning from people who have experience in the system.
22:59 And it's kind of the one guy
23:00 they're trying to get up to speed in that regard.
23:02 I mean, it's a really, really exciting group.
23:04 - You know what?
23:05 I feel like I'm not willing to say
23:07 they're going to be among the NFL's best yet.
23:09 But I'm going to tell you what,
23:11 we were so worried about the cornerbacks last year
23:13 because of the lack of big names.
23:15 And, okay, there were times where like,
23:19 Miles Bryant would get beat.
23:20 Or a guy would get mossed.
23:22 Or times in training camp where you're like,
23:25 "Oh man, they're kind of small."
23:27 But by and large, if we're going to be completely 100%,
23:30 they were fine.
23:31 In fact, they were probably better than fine last year.
23:34 They were much better than I think we expected.
23:38 And so, and that was a theme that we saw last year.
23:40 Marcus Jones, and this is one thing I noticed
23:43 about Marcus Jones, which I'm curious your thoughts
23:46 on whether or not he's corrected this.
23:48 It felt like his balance was off in his transitions.
23:52 And he would get out of phase
23:54 and he would slip a lot last year as a rookie.
23:57 And so guys would get open on him
23:59 or like he would have the recovery speed to get back in
24:01 and contest the catch and get into the play.
24:03 But I'm curious to hear if he's done better in that regard.
24:07 But I think with Jonathan Jones, again,
24:10 it's like he does, they practice this.
24:13 They practice those drills where a guy high points a ball
24:17 or a back shoulder and you got to get your hand in there.
24:20 And Jon Jones is like a 5'9" cornerback,
24:23 probably 5'10" if we're being generous.
24:25 When you play against bigger receivers,
24:28 you have to play like that.
24:31 You have to time it up just right,
24:32 get your hand in there, fight, make it difficult.
24:35 Because sometimes you could at least make it difficult
24:37 by being in their hip pocket, being in their airspace.
24:39 And that's something that those smaller cornerbacks
24:43 that the Patriots have are always in your face.
24:46 They are always making it difficult for you.
24:48 And that alone is worth a pass defense or two.
24:52 Just simply being there.
24:55 And I mean, those other guys get paid too.
24:56 And sometimes they're going to make plays on you.
24:58 It is what it is.
24:59 But if you're there, you give yourself a fighting chance.
25:02 And also you won't allow yards after the catch.
25:04 So I feel good about this cornerback room right now.
25:09 But what do you think about what I was talking about
25:11 with Marcus Jones?
25:12 What do you see from him?
25:14 - I didn't necessarily notice that a lot.
25:16 I thought maybe that was an issue in college, for sure.
25:18 I thought he actually shorted up last year
25:20 because I was looking through, I tweeted that.
25:22 - I noticed it particularly in training camp.
25:24 So I think it was probably something that he got better at
25:26 as the year went on.
25:27 But yeah, oh my God, there were practices
25:29 where he slipped at least like twice every practice.
25:32 And I was just like, bro, stop that.
25:34 Because I think what it is, and again, like former DV,
25:38 you get to, I think like back on your heels.
25:42 And if you sit back on your heels
25:45 and you don't have good balance
25:46 and your feet aren't over your shoulders,
25:47 what can happen is you backpedal, you backpedal,
25:49 you backpedal.
25:50 And then somebody makes a move on you
25:52 and then you're like stumbling to get your balance
25:55 instead of having your feet under you
25:57 and be able to transition from side to side.
25:59 And it's just like, he was on his knee,
26:02 or just like kind of like running in place.
26:04 And a guy would be over there,
26:05 like trying to do an out route on him
26:07 and catching it with like three yards of separation.
26:09 And you're just like, I'm pretty sure you were right there
26:11 before the break.
26:13 - Yeah, he's definitely gotten better in that regard.
26:15 Like he never is out there looking like,
26:17 oh man, we really need to get like Myles Pine
26:20 or Jack Jones back with this starting unit.
26:22 Like the whole unit really has been locked down.
26:24 And even when guys are catching passes,
26:26 it's not like they're catching passes
26:27 or they're wide open.
26:28 Now that also speaks to this, the skill set of this group.
26:31 But yeah, no, I think the entire cornerback group,
26:35 even Jack Jones with the twos,
26:36 like he's been locking people down.
26:37 Like I said, he's getting like two pass breakups
26:39 at least a game or a practice.
26:42 So yeah, that top four group that they have
26:44 is very, very talented.
26:45 And I think once you find out
26:47 what Jack Jones' legal situation is,
26:48 which I'm sure has something to do
26:49 with him getting demoted,
26:51 if he's able to play for the full season,
26:53 it gives him the versatility to say,
26:54 okay, we like Marcus Jones out here
26:56 because Marcus Jones is much more consistent
26:58 and I think more technically sound.
27:00 And that you're not really gonna see him bite on things
27:02 or lose as aggressively
27:03 as I was seeing Jack Jones lose at times.
27:05 Although a lot of Jack Jones' playmaking ability
27:07 makes up for some of his deficiencies
27:09 at this point in his career.
27:10 But I mean, it's a really good group
27:12 that I think should have even better chemistry
27:15 now that obviously Marcus and Jack are in their second years
27:17 and Gonzalez again has experience in the system,
27:19 is learning from a lot of smart guys
27:21 and he's getting chances to correct his mistakes.
27:23 So I'm excited to watch what they can do
27:25 when the pads come on and things really get more intense.
27:27 - Most definitely.
27:29 All right, so for one thing,
27:31 I agree with Ray over in the chat.
27:34 Smash that like button.
27:35 Tell your friends, we are on live.
27:38 We are doing Patriots daily.
27:40 We do it twice a week.
27:41 I'm Kyrie Thompson, that's Taylor Kyles.
27:43 We are here to recap the first couple of days
27:46 of Patriots training camp.
27:48 All right, I wanna talk about probably the big story
27:52 with the New England Patriots of late,
27:55 or particularly of today.
27:56 And that's Matthew Judon's situation.
27:58 I wanna read a tweet that just came through from Jeff Howe.
28:03 I'm talking two minutes ago.
28:05 So this is, yes, this is Jeff Howe,
28:07 NFL National Insider for the Athletic.
28:10 And he used to be Patriots reporter for the Athletic.
28:13 So this guy's plugged in.
28:15 His info is good.
28:17 This is what he said just a moment ago.
28:20 The Patriots planned to limit
28:21 outside linebacker Matthew Judon's workload
28:23 during the first practices of training camp
28:25 as a way to get him up to speed and ready to go for source.
28:29 Judon also hoped to rework his contract this off season,
28:33 but they haven't yet found common ground.
28:37 Also Delusional Pats fan, you are right.
28:39 The Judon response to Asante Samuel Hayton,
28:42 like he always does on Bill Belichick,
28:44 was indeed epic.
28:46 He was just like, "Hey bro,
28:48 you ain't got time to be hating that much.
28:50 Like, just relax."
28:52 - Stay in your lane, boy.
28:54 Stay in your lane.
28:55 - Stay in your lane.
28:56 Hang out with your kids.
28:58 You know.
28:59 - Be a father.
29:01 - Do something, like, don't be hating.
29:03 But look, I wanna touch on particularly
29:05 the last part of this.
29:07 The Judon hoped to rework his contract this off season,
29:10 but they haven't yet found common ground.
29:13 I can absolutely buy that there's a little bit
29:16 of this conversation where Matthew Judon's 31 years old.
29:20 You're maybe trying to keep him a little bit fresher
29:22 going into the season.
29:24 And, you know, why go ahead and run him ragged
29:27 during training camp when you don't need to?
29:29 You know he's a good player.
29:30 He's gonna be fine.
29:31 Okay?
29:32 At the same time,
29:34 I feel like the contract part is definitely a part of this.
29:38 And I feel like some of this
29:40 has a little bit of hold in-ish quality.
29:43 But why make a stink about it
29:46 when you're going into your third year of a contract?
29:50 Okay?
29:50 If this were the last year of his contract,
29:53 then I feel like you,
29:54 like this would be a different conversation.
29:56 But it's the third year of his contract.
29:59 I wanna ask you this.
30:01 Again, having mentioned that Matthew Judon is 31 years old,
30:05 if he has a season like last year,
30:09 what are you doing next off season?
30:11 What kind of contract extension offer
30:14 would you offer Matthew Judon, if at all?
30:18 - Cop out answer.
30:21 Patriots don't pay for what you've done.
30:23 They pay for what you're going to do.
30:25 So, even if Judon has a year
30:27 that's equal to what he had last year,
30:29 they're gonna say, okay, well, let's see.
30:31 I'll look it up real quick.
30:32 How old is Matt Judon?
30:33 Matt Judon is 30 years old.
30:37 He's gonna be around 32 next year.
30:39 So, I think that they would like to get this done
30:43 sooner than later,
30:44 so that they can be like, all right, we'll pay you up front.
30:46 Like, you're a good player right now.
30:47 We expect that you're still gonna be about this good
30:49 this season.
30:50 We'll give you that money.
30:53 And then if you kind of tail off,
30:55 I'm sure the structure is gonna give them
30:57 some kind of way of like, oh, hey,
30:58 you're gonna get your money,
30:59 but we're also gonna be playing it safe.
31:01 But, to answer your question and not be a jerk about it,
31:04 if he does have the same level of production this year,
31:07 I mean, I do think that because he's such a great guy
31:10 in the locker room and the energy he has, the leadership,
31:13 and even like talking to him,
31:14 he really doesn't sound like he's too worried
31:16 about his contract.
31:17 Now, obviously, maybe that could be his own,
31:20 I don't wanna say games that he's playing,
31:22 but maybe he just wants to let Patriots fans know,
31:24 like, I wanna be here,
31:25 so he's not gonna pay me what I feel like I'm worth.
31:27 And like, you really know that the Patriots screwed up here.
31:31 But it just seems,
31:32 I think the Patriots have every incentive
31:34 to try to keep him around.
31:36 But it's interesting what his deal's gonna look like
31:38 just because he is an every down player.
31:40 And that's where I think if he does get a good contract,
31:43 that's where it's gonna come from.
31:44 But when you look at his pass rush production,
31:46 he's not Uche,
31:47 where Uche is legitimately winning one on one.
31:50 Like, most of his sacks and most of his pressures
31:52 are coming 'cause he's beating left tackles.
31:54 A lot of Judon's work is coming on stunts and line games
31:57 where other people are working in tandem.
31:59 And also, credit to him,
32:01 he's got fantastic instincts
32:02 to be able to get to the quarterback,
32:03 finish all those things.
32:05 So as a pass rusher,
32:07 I'm not sure if you give him the kind of money
32:10 that a lot of these other younger guys are getting.
32:13 But I think you supplement that
32:14 with the fact that he can play every down.
32:15 And he's a good run defender.
32:17 He can also drop into coverage.
32:18 He can do everything you want,
32:19 which is what the Patriots really like
32:20 in their outside linebackers.
32:22 So, I'm also not a contract guy,
32:23 so this is such a hard question for me to answer.
32:25 - Yeah, no, I hear you.
32:27 I hear you.
32:28 And you know what, I'm generally,
32:30 I feel like there's a part of me
32:31 that I wouldn't say I'm a contract guy,
32:34 but because I hang out with Brad Spielberger of PFF
32:37 so much on the online interwebs,
32:39 which by the way-
32:40 - Who we may have on the channel kind of soon.
32:43 - Man, okay, you see, you're all ahead of me
32:45 'cause I was about to be like,
32:46 yeah, maybe we should get him on the show.
32:48 And it's like, okay, well, I got Brad on-
32:50 - You know who's cooking?
32:51 You know who's cooking, boy?
32:52 - Well, guess what?
32:52 I got Brad on speed dial,
32:54 so I'm gonna find out what we're cooking.
32:55 (laughing)
32:57 But I talk to him about this a lot.
33:00 And basically, he was talking about,
33:02 Judon was talking about Trey Hendrickson's contract.
33:06 And that was a leading question, of course.
33:08 It's like, hey, would you like Trey Hendrickson money?
33:10 Trey Hendrickson got, I believe, four years, $60 million.
33:15 And he was like, yeah, that's my boy.
33:17 I'm happy about that.
33:18 It's great, it's wonderful.
33:20 Right now, Matthew Judon, and again,
33:23 this is where you don't wanna get too caught up
33:26 in certain things.
33:27 Matthew Judon right now is making
33:29 about $13.6 million a year,
33:32 which is somewhere in the 20th range among edge rushers.
33:36 It's not necessarily about the average
33:38 that you make per year.
33:39 It's about the guarantees, okay?
33:41 - Yeah.
33:42 - The guaranteed money that you get.
33:43 And that's what we wanna talk about.
33:44 At the same time, I do think that
33:48 if I were the New England Patriots,
33:51 Matthew Judon has outplayed $13.6 million pretty clearly.
33:55 I mean, they got him at a bargain during--
33:58 - We got Alex Highsmith making like, what,
34:01 19 million a year?
34:02 - I mean, yeah.
34:02 Now, he's not gonna get $19 million
34:06 from the Patriots, anyway, from the Patriots.
34:10 I think that if you're talking about,
34:12 and again, this is about next year, right?
34:13 I'm talking about next year.
34:14 Because right now, it's not gonna be a big deal.
34:17 Matthew Judon's not gonna hold out.
34:18 He's gonna play, right?
34:19 He's gonna play, he's gonna do his thing.
34:21 He's gonna be a professional 'cause that's what he does.
34:23 We're not worried about that right now, okay?
34:26 But next year, I would be curious to see,
34:30 or later on this year,
34:32 if you see something around three years, 45 to 50.
34:37 Because that would get him in that range
34:41 of a higher average value.
34:43 But of course, you gotta look at the guarantees.
34:45 I gotta think about what the guarantees should be for him.
34:48 And that might be a question for one Brad Spielberger
34:51 of Pro Football Focus.
34:52 But I think that, me personally,
34:58 I think Matthew Judon deserves to get paid.
35:00 And I would like to see him keep on playing
35:01 for the New England Patriots.
35:02 I think he works here.
35:04 I think he likes it here.
35:05 He fits here.
35:07 At the same time, he's not gonna get elite
35:09 edge rusher money to be here.
35:13 And that's something that he would have to understand.
35:15 But at the same time, the Patriots can't keep getting away
35:18 with paying him $13.6 million.
35:21 There's gotta be a compromise here.
35:22 I feel like Matthew Judon, the kind of player that he is,
35:26 the kind of mentality he has, he wants to win.
35:28 He wants to be in a winning culture
35:30 where people are about it.
35:32 I feel like that's why he works here.
35:35 I think that there's gotta be a compromise.
35:36 You gotta pay him a little bit better.
35:37 So I feel like there's gonna be some discussion.
35:41 I'm sure they probably wanna see what he's doing,
35:44 what he does this year at age 31.
35:47 And then you think about it.
35:48 At the same time, right?
35:51 He's gonna be 32 years old next year.
35:54 You're not giving him a four-year deal.
35:56 That ain't happening.
35:57 That's why I think it's gonna be a three-year deal.
35:59 And then the question's gonna be,
36:00 do you want the out after year one or year two?
36:02 I would bet the Patriots would want it after year one.
36:04 So there's gonna be a lot of interesting stuff.
36:07 But again, we got salary cat experts
36:10 that we can ask about that.
36:11 Before we hop off, Mr. Kyles,
36:15 what are you gonna be watching for
36:17 as we head into week two of training camp?
36:22 - Yeah, so this is when the physicality ramps up
36:24 'cause guys are actually gonna be in pads.
36:26 I think you have to look at the trenches.
36:28 My eyes have mostly been fixated on the receivers
36:30 and the skill players 'cause frankly,
36:32 I don't really care what offensive or defensive linemen
36:35 look like when they have no pads.
36:37 Because frankly, we don't even, think about it.
36:39 Do you remember who was doing well and who was doing,
36:41 I mean, obviously it was all pretty bad.
36:43 But no one's talking about what guys were doing
36:45 in shorts and t-shirts or even shells, right?
36:47 So when it comes to the trenches,
36:49 I wanna see when they can go 100%
36:52 what these guys actually look like.
36:53 Like a Riley Reif, is he a little bit better?
36:56 We can actually get his hands on guys.
36:58 You know, what's he gonna look like in the run game?
36:59 'Cause I think that's where a lot of his value
37:01 is gonna come from.
37:01 Lawrence Guy, see Mike Larias in the comments.
37:03 Like Lawrence Guy isn't gonna do much
37:06 in this part of the year.
37:07 - Yeah, that's not his game.
37:08 - Exactly, but once there's run drills and things like that,
37:11 that's where Godshaw, Carl Davis, Lawrence Guy,
37:13 Anthony Jennings, like the guys who you're not gonna hear
37:16 a peep out of when there's not a lot of competition,
37:18 that's where those guys shine.
37:20 So I think I'm gonna be looking more towards
37:22 what the Hogs are doing down there,
37:24 and then see what the running backs are doing as well.
37:26 Kevin Harris is another guy who you're not gonna hear
37:28 much about him when he can't be physical.
37:30 Mondra even said, like, "I'm the kind of guy
37:32 "who's good in pads, so I'm excited for Monday."
37:35 So yeah, like the run game, what guys are doing
37:37 in pass protection, run blocking,
37:39 all those kinds of things,
37:40 that's what I'm gonna be focused on.
37:42 - Yes, and I think that is, look,
37:44 when the one-on-ones start happening,
37:46 like, okay, low-key, like, I love wide receiver,
37:49 you know, and cornerback one-on-runs,
37:51 and, you know, tight ends, safety, et cetera,
37:54 but yo, sometimes those defensive line
37:57 and edge rusher one-on-ones, that's appointment television.
38:01 Okay, that's where the big collisions happen.
38:03 That's where people get sunned, you know what I mean?
38:06 You see people getting tossed around,
38:08 or you can hear the impact across the field.
38:11 That's the real stuff, and especially
38:14 when joint practices happen, look, okay,
38:16 I'm gonna give you a little tip right now.
38:18 Get your brain ready, 'cause when joint practices happen,
38:20 you don't have time to pay attention to everything,
38:23 so you've gotta be either bouncing back and forth
38:25 between two things, like, simultaneously,
38:28 or you've gotta just be like, you know what,
38:30 I'm gonna pick one thing, and I'm gonna stick to it.
38:33 It's like, whether it's the D-line one-on-ones or whatever,
38:36 but that, look, you could sorta see in OTAs
38:41 and mini-camp last year, like, okay,
38:43 things were getting blocked up well,
38:44 and there were just weird mistakes happening,
38:46 but even then, you're still thinking to yourself,
38:49 eh, when the pads come on, we'll see what happens, okay?
38:52 So we don't know that yet, and look,
38:54 we're seeing a lot of passing right now.
38:56 We're hearing a lot about seven-on-sevens.
38:57 Everybody cares about the quarterbacks,
38:59 but when the run game starts going down,
39:02 when you start seeing the run fits happen,
39:04 when you start hearing the pads popping down there
39:06 in the red zone where they're running the football,
39:09 that's when you're gonna start finding out
39:10 what this team is really about, in my opinion.
39:13 - Boys need to start banging.
39:15 That's when the fun happens.
39:16 I'm excited.
39:17 - That is when the fun happens, and you know what?
39:19 The fun is concluded on the Patriots Daily Podcast for now,
39:24 but we're gonna be back.
39:25 We do this twice a week, Monday and Friday, generally.
39:30 I think we're probably gonna stick to that.
39:31 We're gonna be good, but make sure you tune in.
39:34 Make sure you pay attention to the updates
39:36 for when we're gonna be dropping.
39:37 Every once in a while, it'll be like six o'clock,
39:39 and then we'll bump it to seven, like today.
39:41 We'll try to keep a familiar time,
39:43 but you're gonna have to take that up
39:44 with my daughter on occasion.
39:46 - Kyrie's got actual responsibility.
39:48 - That's not on me, not all the time.
39:51 But anyway, I'm Kyrie Thompson.
39:53 That's Taylor Kyles, and we will see you next time.
39:57 Peace out.