KillerFrogs writers Nicholas Girimonte and Davis Wilson talk West Virginia and Oklahoma State’s early struggles, BYU, Kansas and Kansas State’s big wins and TCU’s 4-0 start.
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00:00 Okay, welcome back to another episode of the Frog Fever Killer Frogs basketball podcast.
00:07 I am Davis Wilson.
00:09 My co-host Nick Geremani is here.
00:12 Nick, how are we doing today?
00:15 We're doing good.
00:16 Feast week has started.
00:17 So College of Basketball has now officially started.
00:20 I'm just ready to get into it.
00:22 Well, it was a pretty, pretty crazy week in the Big 12.
00:28 Just overall, a lot of stuff happened.
00:30 And I guess just getting right into it, what do you want to talk about first?
00:34 Because there's a lot we can, there's a lot we can dive into here.
00:37 Yeah, the last time we recorded was last Friday.
00:42 So we have basically a week and a half kind of stuff to talk about.
00:50 And if we want to go with the timeline process, last Friday, BYU got a big win over San Diego
00:56 State at home.
00:57 San Diego State, a team who went to the national championship last year, is returning a lot
01:01 of talent.
01:03 So I think that showed a lot of what BYU is capable of doing.
01:06 If we want to start on that route.
01:09 Yeah, let's, I say we start with BYU.
01:11 What did you, what did you like?
01:13 What did you like from BYU on Friday?
01:16 I liked how deep they are.
01:19 I think they attacked you from, they have a big in Traore, who's going to be a stud
01:26 and one of the top players in the league.
01:27 And Dallin Hall off the bench, he was a freshman last year and all WCC freshman team.
01:34 They prove that they can kill you from the three ball from inside.
01:39 They rebounded well, they moved the ball and Mark Pope's a good coach in terms of being
01:45 able to implement a system that works for them.
01:48 Spencer Johnson, they've always had good guards.
01:51 And this just proves that they're not going to be a fluke in the Big 12 and that they
01:55 can play with top tier talent.
01:57 Yeah, I was really impressed.
01:59 If you look at the box score that game for BYU, the majority of their scoring came off
02:04 their bench, which is always kind of fun to see.
02:07 And one of the guys for me that I've really enjoyed watching is their guard, their bigger
02:14 guard Jackson Robinson, who came off the bench in this game, I think scored 12 points.
02:19 But this guy's a guy who spent time in the SEC with A&M in Arkansas.
02:25 I mean, he's averaging 15 a game on pretty good splits.
02:29 I think he's, let's see, he's 48, 37, 100 shooting splits.
02:33 So I think the depth, like you said, is kind of the thing that is sticking out to me about
02:39 this team.
02:40 And, you know, I think it's easy to, it's easy to maybe forget that San Diego State's
02:47 really good and this was a, this was a nice win for BYU early on.
02:53 Yeah, BYU is one of those teams that we look at coming in and other side of Houston, there's
03:00 question marks with the new teams in the Big 12.
03:04 So BYU is one of those mid teams where they could have gone, they could be bad, they could
03:09 be good.
03:10 And Big 12 people don't really know what they are here to bring.
03:13 So this San Diego State game was a big game at home for them early in the season where
03:18 we could kind of tell what they were going to bring to the table.
03:21 And they answered their call.
03:22 Every time San Diego State had an answer, they'd hit a three or they'd get off as a
03:26 rebounds and they just were being a pest.
03:30 And this just shows that they're going to be no, no easy place to go in Provo.
03:36 That student section was wild.
03:38 What they bring is a real threat to teams in the Big 12 and they should not sleep on
03:43 them.
03:44 I think that Provo may have one of the most underrated atmospheres in college sports,
03:50 not just basketball.
03:51 I think they kind of bring it in football too.
03:53 But I think that's going to be a tough place to play.
03:56 There's so many tough places to play in the Big 12 and adding schools like Houston and
04:02 BYU to that mix is pretty cool for the conference and super fun for fans, I think.
04:09 Yeah, I like the route the Big 12 is going in terms of they're losing in this new conference
04:16 realignment, they're losing some of this football strength, obviously, but they're going in
04:22 a route which is kind of creative in terms of adding all these cool basketball places
04:28 and basketball schools where they are cementing themselves as the top basketball school for
04:32 or as a basketball conference for years to come.
04:36 And you have Arizona, Kansas every year and we saw Arizona State with TCU last year and
04:42 BYU's atmosphere is as good as any.
04:45 That student section backdrop when you're shooting free throws is as tough as any.
04:49 They got all the signs and the hypnotized strategies.
04:56 They're just going to be a fun place to play and they're a great addition to the conference.
05:00 And I like what they showed early on.
05:03 They got Arizona State and Fresno State coming up and Utah down the stretch too.
05:07 So a tough non-conference for them.
05:08 So we'll see more if they are the real deal or not.
05:12 Yeah, I'm excited to watch that Arizona State game because that's going to be a Big 12 matchup
05:17 moving on after this year.
05:19 So that'll be interesting to watch.
05:21 Yeah, so I like BYU.
05:23 I think they've shown a lot.
05:24 Mark Pope's a great coach.
05:25 I mean, he's proving to be a good coach.
05:28 And I think for Big 12 people who are into this basketball thing, I think there's a lot
05:34 to be excited about with BYU.
05:36 So moving on to the next thing we should talk about.
05:42 It's not as encouraging as BYU, but it's West Virginia lost to Monmouth on Friday.
05:53 Monmouth, for those who are curious, is the 271st best team in the country according to
06:04 Ken Palm.
06:06 And West Virginia just lost to them.
06:13 What do you think about this?
06:15 Again, maybe don't overreact too soon, but this is not a good loss.
06:23 Yeah, with West Virginia this year, it's super interesting, obviously, with Huggins and that
06:31 they lost a lot of guys because of that.
06:33 But two or three months back, you look back at it and this West Virginia team was almost
06:38 as talented and was in the upper echelon of Big 12 teams in terms of talent because of
06:43 the transfers they got.
06:45 They loaded up and Huggins happened, they lost Trey Mitchell, and then Kirk Rees got
06:52 that suspension.
06:53 So they are just so thin right now, unexpectedly.
06:58 So almost, I think I am buying into the fact that they're not going to be a great team
07:03 this year.
07:06 They're so thin from a depth perspective.
07:11 They only ran six deep this game for the most part and they just weren't hitting shots and
07:15 they weren't answering anything.
07:17 Yes, Kirk Friese will be back, but their guard play...
07:22 Monmouth had this guy, Xavion Rice, I think, and when I tuned into this game, they could
07:30 not stop him at all.
07:31 Their guard defense was bad, they were letting him get in, they were letting him move the
07:35 ball there, he was hitting threes.
07:36 It was just depressing, I think, to watch from a West Virginia perspective.
07:44 When you get Kirk Friese back, yes, and you still have a lot of talent there.
07:48 Jesse Edwards at center is a stud.
07:50 I thought they should have got him even more involved.
07:53 He had 16 and 13.
07:55 But they will be better, but I think once Big 12's play happens, they're just too thin
07:59 and too inexperienced at this point with the crazy situation that happened over the off
08:03 season that it'll be tough to bounce back from.
08:07 I think in the Big 12, you need two things.
08:12 You need experience and you need depth.
08:15 West Virginia, I mean, Jesse Edwards has played basketball, some basketball.
08:19 Kirk Friese will be back.
08:20 He's played a lot of basketball, but they are not deep.
08:24 Like you said, they ran six guys out there for the most part.
08:31 You're not going to win, I don't know if you'll win any games in the Big 12 running
08:35 six dudes out there every night.
08:42 You can cut them some slack a little bit because what that program went through this summer
08:46 was just a roller coaster and really hard to judge in which direction they're heading.
08:54 But this was not encouraging.
08:58 I think I'm with you.
09:01 We always talk about trying not to overreact to this early stuff, but I just don't really
09:07 see it for the Mountaineers this year just because they're not deep.
09:15 I want to see them with Kreisha to see, but it's hard to be optimistic about what we saw
09:25 in that game against Monmouth.
09:28 All their non-conference games so far have been not great teams.
09:32 Missouri State's not bad and Jacksonville State's actually not bad, but they should
09:36 be beating these teams by more and they've been close to them.
09:38 And to lose a Monmouth and then once their non-conference gets tougher, it could be a
09:43 bad downhill.
09:44 They play, I think, St. John's, Ohio State, someone else to like some ACC team.
09:51 SMU.
09:52 Yeah, and they could go downhill fast for them.
09:59 Obviously they will get Kreisha back soon and you do give them a little bit of a pass
10:04 because it's almost impossible to overcome that big of a roster overhaul with what happens
10:10 with one of the most legendary coaches ever in college basketball just going out in such
10:15 a tough way.
10:18 So it'll probably be a transition year for them and it's tough to see them so thin like
10:24 this.
10:25 It is, yeah.
10:26 I want to kind of stay on the, unfortunately I think I'm going to stay on the more depressing
10:33 side of things and go to, we're going to talk a little bit about Oklahoma State, which really
10:41 is bumming me out because I am a big fan of Mike Boynton and they lost twice this week.
10:48 They lost on Thursday and Friday to St. Bonaventure and Notre Dame.
10:52 Both games were 66-64, so close games.
10:56 And the Bonneys are always kind of a scrappy mid-major team, but they were favored in both
11:05 these games by a couple points each.
11:07 I think the, I don't remember the exact spread of the Bonneys game, but I mean, what do we
11:13 think about Oklahoma State right now?
11:15 Because they have one win and it's against Sam Houston State and it was a 15-point win.
11:24 They're not really beating up on teams right now and they're actually kind of getting beat
11:28 up on.
11:29 So as a guy who's a big Boynton fan, it's sad for me to see.
11:33 I am hopeful they can turn around.
11:37 They've got Creighton coming up in three games and Creighton's really good, so they're going
11:40 to have to get some stuff figured out.
11:42 But what are you, how are you, what are your feelings about Oklahoma State right now?
11:47 It's tough to see because I love Boynton a lot too and I like this team.
11:51 They could be frisky.
11:52 I thought they could be frisky.
11:55 And they had a shot to win, like John Michael Wright had a three at the end of the Bonneys
11:59 game and he kind of turned it over there.
12:02 And you know, Bryce Thompson did get hurt.
12:06 He had a knee injury, I believe, which is tough because he's arguably their best player.
12:12 So it's tough because they lost, like they could be 3-1 and if they beat, I can't even
12:21 remember who they lost to the first game, but like they could easily be...
12:25 Evelyn Christian, I think.
12:26 Yeah, Evelyn Christian.
12:27 Yeah, like they, a couple different made shots either way.
12:33 Like it could be a different story and we could be talking about this team in a different
12:36 manner.
12:38 But it's like, they just haven't been clicking on offense for whatever it is.
12:43 And they're like, Javon Smalls, like the only guy that showed a little bit, he had like
12:47 16 straight points, I think, at the end of that Notre Dame game to push it into overtime.
12:55 They're just, I think they still will be frisky.
12:58 I think they're going to be better than West Virginia Cup Big 12 play in terms of just
13:02 playing hard and they have a lot of guards and they do have more players.
13:06 I hope Bryce Thompson's healthy and can get back.
13:09 So it's not a great look and you don't want to sack him non-conference Ls.
13:13 It's tough to put on their resume and hopefully they'll be around the bubble.
13:19 But once Big 12 play, like you know how tough their conference is and it's tough to get
13:23 wins so you can't be dropping games like this.
13:26 The good thing about how loaded the Big 12 is that, is that, you know, these teams that
13:31 struggle early can can accumulate if they, you know, if they click at the right time,
13:36 which they could, because they do have talent and they do have a good coach.
13:40 If they click at the right time in conference play and beat some of these teams in the Big
13:44 12, like those are quality, those are, you know, top notch wins that are going to be
13:50 big resume builders.
13:51 So there's certainly still a lot to play for, for Oklahoma State.
13:54 They you know, I just think that I think that, yeah, I mean, they're, they're better than
14:02 West Virginia for sure.
14:04 And to be fair, you know, Oklahoma State was only a three and a half point favorite against
14:09 the Bonneys.
14:10 I think the Bonneys are a good team.
14:13 There are seven and a half point favorites against Notre Dame.
14:17 So like, you know, those are both games, obviously you, you should win, but it's not egregious
14:24 like losing to Monmouth is.
14:26 And I think the Oklahoma State, you know, like you said, they have, they have experience,
14:31 they have experienced guys.
14:33 Javon small obviously is playing really, really well right now.
14:37 But yeah, I don't know.
14:40 I'm going to continue to be optimistic and believe in this team, I think, and until they,
14:47 you know, until they really, really show me not to, you know.
14:52 Yeah, three losses a tough early on, but Javon small did show a lot that he could be a number
14:57 one scorer.
14:58 And if Bryce Thompson is that he'll take on more of that role.
15:01 I would like to see more of John Michael Wright being that he's played so long with such,
15:05 such experience.
15:07 Like three losses is tough to look at that record, but it's, to me, it's not as bad as
15:12 it looks because it's been so close and a couple of shots couldn't could easily go the
15:16 other way.
15:17 Yeah.
15:18 And Javon is also playmaking a little bit, which I think is, I mean, he's leading the
15:22 team assists, almost five assists a game.
15:24 So I mean, they have, they have guys who've played a lot of basketball before.
15:29 I think that, you know, hopefully they, they can get and stay healthy.
15:34 And maybe we're, maybe we're talking about this team in a completely different manner
15:38 come February, you know, there's no way to really know it.
15:41 I mean, it's a long season and they play in the best conference of the country.
15:45 There's going to be opportunities to get these big ones.
15:47 Yeah.
15:48 If you want to put a spin zone on it, like as an Oklahoma state fan, you can say like
15:52 having losses so early in the season isn't as bad because you know, teams could sleep
15:59 on you a little bit.
16:00 You can get some of this work out your kinks more like some, it's like if you go down on
16:08 a big lead early and then people kind of like sleep on you and you, you come back slowly.
16:13 So if teams do sleep on the Oklahoma state team, they have guys that can, that can kill
16:19 you.
16:20 Yeah.
16:21 Yeah.
16:22 Yeah.
16:23 So I think we're in agreeance.
16:24 We're not going to write off the Cowboys just yet.
16:26 Next up Kansas.
16:30 Kansas beat Kentucky and Hunter Dickinson went absolutely insane.
16:35 That dude is one of the, I mean, this isn't breaking news that I'm doing here, but he
16:39 is one of the best players in college basketball and really kind of a fascinating player to
16:44 watch or his number.
16:47 He had, he had 27, 27 and 21.
16:50 Yeah, that's ridiculous.
16:52 He was eight of 12 from the field.
16:54 One of two from three, 10 of 11 from the free throw line.
16:58 Six, six of those boards were offensive rebounds.
17:01 And then you add like the experience that Kansas already had, like the one Harris had
17:07 23 Kevin McCuller had a triple double.
17:11 I didn't even see that 12, 10 and 10 like, ah, and KJ Adams is coming into his own now.
17:17 Like man, this is this, I mean, the easiest way to put it is this is the number one team
17:25 in the country for a reason.
17:27 And Kentucky, Kentucky is a, that's a good win for them.
17:33 Yeah.
17:36 This was definitely the most interesting game of the week, I would say.
17:38 And the most easy to have takes on and to contemplate about for what this means for
17:44 the big 12.
17:45 This means for Kansas, for Kentucky, I actually, yes, Kansas is, you know, top five team in
17:54 the country.
17:56 If I were to think about this, like watching this game, I was almost more like thinking
18:05 that Kentucky is like super good and Kansas is super good.
18:10 But Kansas kind of snuck away with this win.
18:14 And like a weird way.
18:15 Yeah, like Hunter Dickinson had 27 and 21.
18:17 Like you said, like DeJuan Harris made like all five three, I think his last three that
18:23 he missed was he was just putting it up because of shot clock, but he made every three that
18:27 they had taken.
18:29 And they're not probably going to have that every game.
18:32 You know what I mean?
18:33 Like, absolutely.
18:34 He had control of this game, the majority of the game.
18:37 And they almost looked more talented, it seemed like at times, and they were kind of overwhelming
18:41 them.
18:43 Kentucky's just so young that I think they had some bad, some bad shot selection later
18:49 in the game.
18:50 Like Daniel Wagner, their freshman isn't going to go one of 12.
18:54 The majority of the game, I think Kansas is so good, but their defense showed some errors.
19:02 And like, if you're going to nitpick, like Hunter Dickinson isn't a great defender, he's
19:08 a top two probably offensive player in the game.
19:12 And then, but Kentucky so small, he got those offensive rebounds.
19:17 I don't know, they seem to just be missing like one extra piece for me, where they can
19:21 take control of this game.
19:22 And they, if they were playing a team that was probably more experienced, they probably
19:26 would have lost.
19:27 I don't know.
19:28 What do you think?
19:29 Yeah, no, I agree.
19:30 I think Nick Timberlake didn't score for Kansas.
19:33 I think that is a piece that they're gonna, they're gonna want to have, because he's a
19:39 great shooter when he's shooting well.
19:41 He only played 13 minutes.
19:43 And that's the other thing.
19:44 We talked about West Virginia's depth.
19:47 Kansas is not a deep team either.
19:48 I mean, they have, they basically ran out there with seven guys, you know, Parker Brown
19:55 played eight minutes.
19:57 Jamari McDowell played, played, what he played four minutes.
20:02 So technically they played 10, nine guys, but really it was seven guys getting most
20:08 of the minutes.
20:10 And, you know, you're right, like all these huge performances, you know, Dickinson went
20:16 crazy.
20:17 DeJuan Harris was great.
20:18 Kevin McCullough was all over the place, all these great performances, and they only beat
20:23 this Kentucky team by five.
20:25 I think that, I think that you're right.
20:30 I kind of think, you know, for me, at least I thought that it was kind of a game where
20:36 I walked away from it, you know, optimistic about both teams.
20:42 You know, it's not like I am writing off Kentucky.
20:46 Now Kentucky played really well and you're absolutely right.
20:49 They really should have beat Kansas.
20:52 They were the better team most of the night.
20:54 So you know, I think it's hard, it's hard to know, you know, exactly what this Kansas
21:02 team is.
21:03 I do think that you're right, they may be missing one or two pieces here and there.
21:11 And I, you know, we'll see.
21:13 We'll see if a guy like Nick Timberlake can be that guy.
21:17 I mean, I don't know.
21:18 I don't know what their, I think overall I was excited about what I saw from Kansas,
21:24 but they were not the better team for most of the game.
21:28 Yeah, what I took from this game is that, you know, DeJuan Harris isn't going to hit,
21:33 he's not going to be like the stud shooter is going to make five threes and Kevin McCullers
21:38 not going to put up a triple double every game and Hunter Dickinson not going to have
21:42 21 rebounds a game because Kentucky's just plays into that.
21:46 They're so small and they're inexperienced at this point of the year.
21:50 So they have the five star in a mark.
21:54 El Marco Jackson, who's starting and they have this Australian dude for free, who's
21:58 supposed to be a beast on offense.
21:59 And I probably, they need one of those guys to step up, I think, because it, they did
22:05 show some vulnerabilities.
22:06 I think what we took or what I took from this game is that Kansas is ranked the number one
22:11 team in the country, but they're not going to be that dominant team because you can play
22:15 with their offense and you can kind of exploit them in ways if you're a good enough team,
22:19 yeah, they can be upset and they're not going to, you know, run the table.
22:23 I would say, I think there's something missing, maybe defensively that may be fair to say,
22:29 like they, I don't know, I don't know.
22:32 I'm excited to see what they do because they've got kind of an exciting non-conference slate
22:38 coming up.
22:39 They have, they have a couple crapper games and then they have Yukon on December 1st,
22:45 which will be awesome.
22:46 It should be awesome at least.
22:48 And then they get Missouri, Indiana, Wichita state all before big 12 starts.
22:53 So I think we're going to be able to find a lot about, find out a lot about this team
22:59 in the next couple of weeks.
23:02 But overall I would say, you know, that's pretty encouraging to see a performance like
23:09 that from Dickinson and DeJuan, just knowing like that's there for Kansas if they need
23:15 it.
23:16 You know, I think that is, I don't know.
23:19 I think they're, I think, I mean, it's not breaking news here.
23:22 They're a good team and are they the best team?
23:25 Who knows?
23:26 But I think we'll get opportunities to see a lot more of them as weeks go on.
23:32 Yeah.
23:33 With this up rush on talent, they're probably going to be around the top 10, top 15, the
23:39 whole year around.
23:40 But I would say for other teams looking up at them, like your Houston's, your TCU's,
23:46 your Kansas state's, your Texas's in the big 12, there's opportunity to beat this team
23:51 and they showed that they're still working out the Kings.
23:55 So it's encouraging to say the least for Kansas, but if they do get upset, I wouldn't be shocked
24:02 in the near future.
24:03 Yeah.
24:04 I think that their depth just is slightly concerning to me and it didn't end up being
24:11 a problem for them because of these big time showings from their stars.
24:16 But on those days where their stars aren't there, which are going to happen, you know,
24:20 Hunter Dickinson will have his off days.
24:24 Where does the scoring come from?
24:26 That's my question.
24:27 What are you doing?
24:28 What are you getting off the bench?
24:30 I think we'll find out a lot about how Bill Self is going to manage his rotation and that
24:39 to me is the most exciting thing as Kansas gets into some of these big non-conference
24:47 games.
24:48 Yeah.
24:49 I mean, the big takeaway from this game though is that I think it was just like awesome to
24:52 have that big college basketball game back.
24:55 Like watching that was just, it was a sick game because Kentucky was doing what they
25:00 do best with young guys and one-on-ones in Kansas.
25:03 I don't know.
25:04 It was just a great back and forth game that was like, all right, college basketball is
25:09 back.
25:10 Yeah.
25:11 So, the next question is Kansas' interstate rival, Kansas State, who beat Providence this
25:18 week, 73 to 70.
25:22 After dropping their first game to USC, we warned everyone, don't panic about this team
25:28 because they are good and they have a good coach and we saw that against Providence.
25:35 What did you see in that game?
25:37 What did you like?
25:38 What did you not like out of Kansas State?
25:41 Yeah, I remember episode one or two that we were talking about Kansas State losing to
25:46 SC and we were saying, yeah, don't panic.
25:48 This team has talent.
25:50 And then I also brought up the point that I thought Tyler Perry was like pulling too
25:56 much shots, being probably too aggressive, trying to be the hero.
25:59 Against USC, he's dialed it back a lot and has been much more efficient.
26:03 Like I think he took, I don't know, 17 shots or something, 17 or 20.
26:08 His first game at USC and he's dialed it back to 10, 11, just letting the game come to him
26:13 more.
26:14 He's been super efficient as their leading scorer in a more natural way.
26:18 Arthur Kaluma stepped up.
26:20 He had a big game against Providence.
26:22 He even threw some punches against Providence, which was fun to watch.
26:26 And they still haven't gotten Nate Guantanamo back.
26:29 And I don't know if he's going to come back because it's a weird suspension issue.
26:33 I think it was just like public intoxication or I think with a bar fight, something like
26:39 that, some weird conduct issue that Tang still got to resolve.
26:43 But Providence is a good team and that was a big win in Feastweek to kind of show people
26:48 that K-State's still going to be around.
26:50 K-State's still going to be a really good team.
26:51 Yeah.
26:52 I mean, these guys, Tyler Perry, Cam Carter, they played over 40 minutes, which is pretty
26:59 cool.
27:00 Yeah.
27:01 Back to Tyler Perry.
27:02 This is a guy that has been fun to watch in college basketball for years.
27:07 He was a dog at North Texas for a long time and now he's here in Power Five playing against
27:12 really great teams like Providence.
27:15 And he scored 24 points, four rebounds, three assists.
27:18 He was 14 of 14 from the free throw line.
27:22 And we mentioned when he has a ball, how aggressive does he need to be?
27:29 And I like that he was four of 11 from the field.
27:36 But he got to the line, which I think is really nice for Kansas State fans to see.
27:43 He's getting to the line and he doesn't miss from the line.
27:46 So I think that's one of the better wins we've seen from any Big 12 school so far.
27:52 Is that fair to say?
27:54 Yeah.
27:55 I mean, yeah, like the Kansas and the K-State win were too big for the Big 12.
28:04 I think to your point, that was a great point about Perry, when you're a great scorer, I
28:10 think just getting to the line is an underrated aspect because that just racks up the points.
28:15 And he's making like all his free throws too.
28:18 So if you're efficient in getting to the line, you can be a great constant flow of points
28:25 for this offense.
28:26 What's cool about Tang's offense too is that I like we saw with Marquis Noel a lot last
28:31 year, it lets guards and superstar players be themselves.
28:36 So it lets Tyler Perry work and he's got that on-ball skill where he can step back, he can
28:42 juke you at your ankles.
28:44 So just letting him be himself and to be a little bit more under control as games have
28:52 gone on, he's finding his own footing in this offense.
28:57 And Kent Carter's been a great second option to him and same with Arthur Klume.
29:02 They got a good squad going there.
29:04 So there's some team to watch.
29:07 I think looking back on it, I think Kansas State was maybe the perfect spot for a guy
29:14 like Tyler Perry.
29:16 And I'm really excited that we're kind of seeing it work out for Tyler and Jerome Tang.
29:25 This is a good team.
29:26 Again, that loss to USC, they've already improved so much from that loss and they've already
29:35 looked a lot better.
29:36 And similar to Kansas, they have a couple of pretty fun non-conference games.
29:45 Actually they play Miami today, right now.
29:48 I think it started like three weeks ago.
29:51 Starting right now.
29:52 So we'll talk about that on the next pod I guess.
29:55 And then in a couple weeks they have Villanova and then LSU, Nebraska, Wichita State.
30:02 Another kind of fun non-conference schedule where we're going to get to see a lot more
30:05 of guys like Tyler Perry and Kaluma.
30:09 I am excited to kind of see these guys settle in and find their footing.
30:14 Yeah, they're going to be battle-tested coming into Big 12 play.
30:19 I think with the way Tang recruits, pulling guys like Tyler Perry and seeing them having
30:24 success here, it just shows to other people that if you want to have your numbers up and
30:31 get a chance to go to Pro Bowl and be yourself, Tang's going to keep getting these big transfers.
30:37 That's props to their program.
30:39 Yeah, for sure.
30:41 The final thing before we get into some of the TCU stuff from this week was a little
30:47 bit of Big 12 recruiting news.
30:51 Texas landed shooting guard Trey Johnson, who is originally from the Dallas area.
30:58 He actually went to my high school.
31:04 He's a fun player to watch and he is one of the best in the country.
31:08 247 Composite has him as the fourth best in the country, the number one shooting guard
31:13 in the country.
31:14 He chose Texas over Baylor.
31:17 We don't have to spend too much time on this.
31:18 I just think it's really...
31:23 I don't know how you feel.
31:25 We differ about Rodney Terry.
31:29 The one thing he does do and he's shown he's able to do is recruit.
31:34 This is a big land for Texas.
31:38 He's just one of those...
31:40 Having another huge high profile guy, obviously we won't really see him in the Big 12, but
31:46 for now, we still get to talk about Texas.
31:53 Great player.
31:54 Cool for Texas to land him.
31:56 I don't know.
31:58 Exciting to follow that recruiting stuff.
32:03 Huge doubt for Rodney Terry.
32:05 If you look back, that was my skeptic.
32:08 I was skeptic of him last year because he was using a lot of the guys' beard hats.
32:12 I just wanted to see what he had in store to pull these guys.
32:18 That's huge for him.
32:19 Trey Johnson is a cool story too because his dad played for Baylor, I believe.
32:24 Some people thought he'd go there.
32:26 It was a decision where you didn't know for sure what was going to happen.
32:31 It was big for Rodney Terry to get a guard because pulling up against Scott Drew and
32:38 what he's done with guards is a tough pull.
32:41 That Texas program is going to be big.
32:43 That was a big point to be like, "Alright, Rodney Terry is going to be around for a while
32:48 and have success."
32:49 It was a cool thing too because I think he said he worked out with KD when he was down
32:56 in Texas.
32:57 He got a similar taller guard skills type of thing.
33:04 That was a cool pull.
33:07 Definitely a cool recruitment.
33:08 One of the top players going to Texas is huge for their program.
33:16 It's kind of cool to look at Texas' best recruits of all time.
33:20 He's only behind Kevin Durant and Mo Bamba.
33:22 I think that's funny.
33:23 He's ahead of NBA players like Avery Bradley, Miles Turner, Greg Brown.
33:28 A huge gift for Texas.
33:31 Although we are saying goodbye to them next year, the Big 12, it's still kind of interesting
33:38 to follow them as they're obviously a player in the conference this year.
33:43 I'm interested to see what Rodney Terry is.
33:48 This is kind of his...
33:49 He kind of made a statement here beating out Scott Drew for one of these one and done type
33:53 scoring guards.
33:59 Next we can get into a little bit of TCU if that's alright with you.
34:05 So now we're back and we're going to do some TCU talk because once again they're winning.
34:15 They are undefeated on the week and they're undefeated on the season and they're winning
34:19 games in a pretty decisive fashion every night.
34:25 So what do you think?
34:29 What are your thoughts?
34:30 Any new thoughts about this team since we last talked?
34:33 What did you like from this week?
34:36 Yeah, I think I'm starting to fall in love with this team.
34:42 They're good.
34:43 They're deep.
34:44 It's a different...
34:46 They can score from so many different guys.
34:49 It's kind of the same story that we talked about last week in terms of we don't know
34:53 if there's a go-to guy.
34:54 But as I come to think of it, that's become more of a positive than not early on in the
35:02 season.
35:03 Like yeah, they haven't played a close game and that's where you see where your go-to
35:08 guys are when you face some controversy and you have to go to a guy.
35:12 But they're forcing turnovers.
35:15 They're getting out of transition.
35:16 They're playing great defense, which we saw from that first game was kind of an issue
35:21 for them.
35:22 The only thing I have that's kind of a down thing, they're getting off to slow starts.
35:29 They'll be down at like the 12 minute mark or like 8 minute mark in the first half.
35:37 You'll be like, "What?
35:39 What is wrong with this team?"
35:40 And then they'll just go on these crazy runs where they just get turnovers and force out.
35:44 That's kind of the way Jamie's team plays though, is that when you play this heavy transition
35:49 offense that's so fast, when it's working, you can go on sick runs.
35:53 And then when it's not and you're stagnant, you kind of face controversy.
35:57 So that I kind of worry about, but other than that, I'm loving what I'm seeing.
36:02 Yeah.
36:03 And it is important to note, the teams TCU has played are really bad, but it's different
36:09 from past TCU teams in a sense that they're not playing with their food.
36:14 They're taking care of these teams, which is super encouraging to see as we watch this
36:19 team.
36:20 And the other thing I want to mention, it's kind of been the theme for me of this podcast,
36:24 talking about team depth.
36:26 TCU is maybe the deepest team in the conference.
36:31 Both of these games they played this week, 10 guys got at least 10 minutes, which is
36:40 a stark difference from the West Virginias and even the Kansases.
36:46 And yet, I think our hypothesis about this team from last week, where we said that there
36:51 may not be a true leading scorer, it may be someone different each night.
37:01 I think that's becoming even more true.
37:06 And this is the deepest team I've seen at TCU.
37:13 Like you said, they can score from anywhere.
37:15 And yeah, I mean, it's pretty cool to watch these guys play right now.
37:21 They're playing good basketball.
37:24 Yeah, my take ahead about this team was, I think we're being kind of slept on in terms
37:31 of the rankings and stuff because you lose Star Power and Mike and DB and then Eddie
37:37 transfers so probably your three biggest name-like guys have gone.
37:44 But we're third in experience in terms of years in all the big 12, I mean in all the
37:51 countries so it's not like it's a transition year by any means.
37:55 This is almost the most win now team Jamie's had in his tenure at TCU.
38:02 And with that being said, we move so deep, we can go 10 deep and I think that actually
38:09 is going to be a trend that's going to continue as far because sometimes you see this happen
38:14 when early in the year when you're playing these teams that aren't great and you're just
38:20 kind of seeing what your rotation feels.
38:22 But most of these guys are playing great.
38:26 The more I look at the center position too, which we talked about last week, which is
38:29 kind of a funny thing because they just keep on playing the same amount of minutes and
38:34 no one's really like separating from each other but no one's really playing that bad.
38:39 As we said, I want Uday to be the guy.
38:44 He's kind of not been so far, he's gotten in foul trouble and stuff like that but it's
38:49 been Jacoby, it's been Eman, it's been Jameer, it's been Micah.
38:52 It's a different guy every night, the shootings improve, the rebounding's there, the defense
38:56 is as good as any, we're getting steals on steals and it's great to watch.
39:02 Yeah, I'm excited to play good teams.
39:06 I think we only have one more week of these random subpar teams before we actually get
39:13 into playing power six but I'm loving what I'm seeing so far.
39:19 I think it's such a testament to the offseason that Jamie Dixon had that he lost Mike Miles
39:29 who is one of the best players to ever play at TCU, he lost Damian Baugh who was a huge
39:36 part of their last two runs that they've made to March and you lose those two guys and you
39:43 come back with an even better team.
39:46 What a job he has done and then not even just bringing in new guys but the development of
39:54 the guys you have.
39:55 We talked so much about Jacoby Coles, we talked a lot about Micah Peavy, we've talked a lot
40:01 about Emanuel Miller.
40:05 Not only did he bring in one of the best transfer classes in the country but he kept his guys
40:11 around and he's helped develop them in a really good way and I think that Jamie is
40:19 kind of in his bag right now at TCU and that's pretty fun to see.
40:25 While we talk about the schedule, my only slight concern would be that we don't really
40:34 have, we've got some good teams, at least some teams that we've heard of before coming
40:42 out.
40:43 We have Georgetown and not this week but next, Clemson, Arizona State.
40:47 But I think I would have liked to play maybe, I don't know, I guess Arizona State is pretty
40:55 good and they'll be a test, that rematch, but I would like to see us play someone before
41:01 we just jump into the Big 12 and have to play in Lawrence against Kansas.
41:09 I would like to see a little more because it gives you more room for error.
41:13 You play a tougher non-conference where you can drop a couple Big 12 games and not feel
41:16 as bad about it.
41:18 But when you're in the Big 12 it's not as big of a concern because you are getting that
41:22 strength of schedule.
41:23 I think Clemson will be kind of tough.
41:25 PJ Hall, their best player, is probably one of the best players in the country so it will
41:29 be a tough test.
41:31 But to your point about our team, I think what's cool is that everyone you wanted to
41:38 see take that next step has kind of done it.
41:42 We saw Micah Peavy has taken that next step improving his shooting.
41:46 E-Man hasn't had the numbers there but his effort's been there and his shooting has improved.
41:53 Xavier Cork has, I think, taken that next step and he's arguably been the best of the
41:58 three in the Big Men.
42:01 Jacoby we've seen be the leading scorer twice in these games and he's just had such a calm
42:06 approach.
42:07 So you've had these transfers come in who you knew were going to be big pieces of the
42:11 team and then your own guys improved.
42:13 It's just a sick mess right now where we're so experienced and it seems like this is the
42:17 year where we really have the chance to make a run which is super encouraging to see.
42:24 I think we have a couple left of these subpar teams.
42:29 We have Alcorn State and Houston Christian this week.
42:35 Kind of the same drill as the last two weeks.
42:38 These are both teams TC should beat handedly.
42:44 And then you go to Georgetown.
42:51 Is that a Clemson game?
42:52 Like an invitational or something?
42:54 Yeah, it's a draw.
42:55 Yeah, I think it's a neutral site.
42:58 And then you have that tournament around Christmas with Old Dominion and then you play the winner
43:02 of a couple other teams.
43:04 So you get a little better.
43:06 You get Arizona State in Fort Worth but at Dickie's not at Schulmeier.
43:12 So it's kind of a semi-home game.
43:16 Those three games I'm looking forward to.
43:17 I think next week's pod will be...
43:20 Well I guess next week we'll get to talk about it.
43:22 But in two weeks we're going to get to talk about these games.
43:25 I think hopefully we've learned a lot about the team that this is.
43:30 I think we already have a pretty good idea.
43:32 This is a deep team.
43:34 Like I said, my two things in the Big 12 that you should have to be a good team is depth
43:40 and experience.
43:41 TCU has depth.
43:42 Maybe the best depth in the conference.
43:44 And what was that stat you had?
43:46 They have the third best experience.
43:47 Yeah, I was looking on Ken Palm and it said the third most experience in terms of average
43:52 years played in college basketball in all the country which is fascinating.
43:57 When I saw that I was like, yeah.
43:59 That makes me excited.
44:00 I think that makes sense.
44:01 That makes me excited.
44:02 I think those are the two things that are really helpful to have in a conference that's
44:06 so loaded like the Big 12.
44:08 The other thing I want to talk about before we go is Jameer Nelson Jr.
44:13 You had another stat, Ken Palm's stat, about the defense that he's playing.
44:21 Talk me through what can Jameer Nelson not do is my question now.
44:27 Yeah, that's what I think too.
44:30 The stat was that he was first in the Big 12 and eighth in the country I believe in
44:36 terms of steal percentage which is steals per possession played.
44:41 So he gets a steal on 8% roughly of every possession he's in which is crazy if you
44:50 think about it.
44:51 I think he's averaging like four steals a game pretty much.
44:53 So his hands are so active and it's huge for TCU.
44:58 He fits so perfectly in this team because he runs fast, he can command the offense,
45:04 and he gets steals and creating turnovers is big when you want to run fast and Jameer
45:08 Nelson Jr. prides himself on being fast and leading the country in fast break points.
45:14 That was the coolest stat.
45:15 Avery Anderson is fifth in the Big 12 too so both the guards are being extremely active
45:20 on defense and when you're creating these quick turnovers it's going to be so huge for
45:24 TCU to keep their offense up and stuff like that.
45:27 And I think when you look at this non-conference that we have, when you keep playing like this,
45:35 they should be, I don't want to get ahead of myself, but they should be undefeated or
45:40 worst case scenario won-loss by the time they go into Lawrence.
45:45 Yeah man, these guards are exciting to me.
45:50 Avery Anderson is almost maybe the most underrated player on this team and maybe one of the most
45:56 underrated players in the conference just because of the experience that he has.
46:01 And not only does he have college basketball experience, but he has Big 12 basketball experience
46:06 which is going to be huge.
46:08 I think he's going to be one of this team's best weapons when we get kind of into December
46:16 and January when Big 12 stuff starts.
46:19 And both of these guys have shown flashes and have impressed me a lot.
46:25 And yeah man, there's not much else to say other than this is a pretty exciting team
46:31 and obviously I don't want to get ahead of myself because the teams they've played are
46:38 not good, but they have taken care of those teams which is kind of a sign of a good basketball
46:44 team is when you beat the teams that you're supposed to beat and you beat them pretty
46:48 good.
46:50 So yeah, we'll continue to learn more about this team and I mean, they're exciting to
46:57 watch every night which is also awesome.
47:00 You never know who's going to be the guy and I think that's a fun part of basketball.
47:05 Yeah to kind of wrap things up, I think it's funny when you look at Avery Anderson coming
47:09 from Oklahoma State because we got this guy Rondo Walker last year, who was from Oklahoma
47:16 State and had production at Oklahoma State as a guard and he was not good.
47:23 And when Frog fans looked at an Oklahoma State guard transfer it was like, "Oh, he's..."
47:30 Here we go again.
47:31 Yeah, here we go again.
47:32 But it's actually the opposite.
47:33 I think Avery Anderson has used another nerd stat on Ken Palm is that he's been the most
47:39 used per possession on the CCU team.
47:42 So when he gets in a game, he's being the most used offensive weapon, which is fascinating.
47:49 He's been as impressive as any.
47:51 This TCU team is definitely something to get excited about.
47:54 Yeah, absolutely.
47:55 Big takeaway.
47:56 And yeah, they're going to play some teams soon, but for now it should just be taking
48:01 care of the teams you have to take care of.
48:04 But yeah, well that is...
48:07 What else do you have?
48:08 You have anything else before we wrap up?
48:10 No, yeah, another great week.
48:13 I would like to see the AP voters show a little love to the Frogs on Monday.
48:17 That'd be cool to see.
48:18 I don't know if we will because, yeah, we haven't played anyone to be fair, but that
48:23 would be fun to see.
48:25 And no...
48:26 Who's in there towards the...
48:27 I think we received votes, didn't we, last week?
48:30 Yeah.
48:31 Yeah.
48:32 And we are taking care of teams, but no one's watching our games because we're playing nobody.
48:35 Yeah, that's true.
48:36 It'll be interesting to see how they value us.
48:39 Yeah, I guess none of those teams up in the mid-20s area really...
48:46 I don't think any of those teams dropped any games, so it'll be interesting to see.
48:52 I guess Michigan State maybe, but I don't know.
48:55 I don't know.
48:56 It'll be interesting to see.
48:57 At the very least, they're going to receive more votes.
49:00 Yeah, that's exciting.
49:03 And we might want to watch our K-State takes because Miami's up on them 18-6 right now.
49:09 So we may look dumb, but I'm excited to watch the end of this game right now.
49:15 Yeah, yeah, we'll go watch that.
49:19 The other thing, Texas plays Louisville today at 2.30.
49:22 That's another fun game to watch.
49:23 Yeah, Feast Week's going to be fun.
49:25 I'm excited to just chill and watch some college basketball.
49:28 For sure.
49:29 It's a great time of the year.
49:32 Well, I think that's all we have.
49:35 Once again, listener, thank you for taking time out of your day to listen to Nick and
49:41 I chat about Big 12 basketball and TCU basketball.
49:48 You can find us on whatever podcast network you listen to at Killer Frogs.
49:54 We're called the Frog Fever Killer Frogs Basketball Podcast.
49:58 You can read our work at KillerFrogs.com.
50:01 And once again, I am Davis Wilson.
50:04 That is Nick Germani, and we will talk to you next week.
50:08 Thank you guys.
50:09 Have a good one.
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