The Patriots Defense is FED UP With Offense | Pats Interference
After Sunday's shutout loss, Andrew drops what he heard in the locker room from Patriots defenders, unloads his film notes, including a couple Patriots positives, and then answers your mailbag questions on Bill Belichick, Robert Kraft, the front office and lots more.
You can also listen and Subscribe to Pats Interference on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and at CLNSMedia.com every Tuesday!
0:00 INTRO
1:20 INSTANT REACTION
2:50 Patriots Defense is FED UP?
13:24 The Good
15:58 The Bad
19:32 What NFL Films would say
20:24 Malik Cunningham should play
27:50 MAILBAG
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You can also listen and Subscribe to Pats Interference on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and at CLNSMedia.com every Tuesday!
0:00 INTRO
1:20 INSTANT REACTION
2:50 Patriots Defense is FED UP?
13:24 The Good
15:58 The Bad
19:32 What NFL Films would say
20:24 Malik Cunningham should play
27:50 MAILBAG
This episode of the Pats Interference Podcast is brought to you by Fanduel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering parter of the CLNS Media NetworkRight now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First onlinereal money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.
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SportsTranscript
00:00 This is the second straight week a player has been open
00:02 about their feelings about being too intent
00:04 and specifically on defense.
00:06 And that's not a crime.
00:07 This is not a bad thing.
00:08 Again, this is something I would imagine you at home
00:11 want to know exactly what they feel
00:12 instead of getting the same old tired BS at the podium.
00:16 But this, in those quotes,
00:19 is absolutely a violation of Belichick's
00:23 longstanding media policy of treating reporters,
00:25 as the old saying goes, like mushrooms.
00:27 Keep them in the dark and feed them shit.
00:29 And Adrian Phillips to me in New York,
00:32 just about a week and a half ago, said the same thing.
00:34 We gotta hold them to zero.
00:35 If three points, 10 points isn't enough,
00:37 we gotta hold them to zero.
00:38 Devon Gottschall repeats the same sentiment
00:41 with a smile, 'cause that's his life.
00:43 And we have gone through, we.
00:46 The Patriots defense has gone through the stages of grief
00:48 faster than I've seen any kind of team.
00:50 Because I'll tell you, in that locker room,
00:52 it wasn't a circus or a carnival or any kind of
00:55 happy event you might find yourself at,
00:56 but guys were smiling.
00:58 They were joking.
00:59 They know they had done their jobs.
01:00 The mantra that defines this franchise,
01:02 and it wasn't good enough.
01:03 So what do you do with that?
01:05 You don't sit with it and sink into it.
01:07 You just go, well, onto the next.
01:10 All right, recording here Monday, about six o'clock.
01:20 Here's the plan.
01:21 We are gonna talk about the Patriots losing
01:23 a six nothing game to the Chargers on Sunday.
01:26 I am gonna bring you the good, the bad,
01:28 what would NFL films say?
01:29 We need to talk, mail back, all the usual segments.
01:32 But I don't think you need me to explain much
01:36 about a six nothing loss.
01:37 A loss that dropped the Patriots down to levels
01:40 of offensive futility.
01:42 That in NFL history, there are two teams in the last 85 years
01:45 to allow 10 points in three straight games
01:48 and lose all of them.
01:49 The other team is extinct.
01:51 Those are the Chicago Cardinals,
01:53 which I'm sure you've heard by now,
01:55 because it has been a long 24, 30,
01:58 whatever it's going to be number of hours
01:59 by the time that you hear this episode
02:01 of the Pat's Interference podcast brought to you by Fandle,
02:03 exclusive wagering part of the CLNS Media Network.
02:06 But I wanna get to what you wanna know,
02:08 because here at 2 in 10, honestly, it's dealer's choice.
02:11 And I will tell you, this will be a first.
02:12 We have a mail back question from Aaron asking,
02:15 can I pick a new team?
02:17 Asking for a friend, of course,
02:18 you gotta give yourself some cover.
02:20 And I think it's only temporary from Aaron.
02:23 I'm gonna give her the benefit of the doubt,
02:24 but that's where we are.
02:25 And so I'm gonna answer virtually every question that I got.
02:28 We set a record over 20 on Twitter and post on threads.
02:32 I'm posting more on threads.
02:33 If you're on threads, please find me.
02:34 And we're gonna get to that.
02:38 And I'm gonna speed through the football.
02:39 'Cause again, you don't need a whole lot of my help
02:40 to digest what happened.
02:41 I do have a ton of notes and stats and diagrams
02:44 as you always find them at Film Review.
02:45 Go to thebostonherald.com.
02:46 Please read that.
02:47 But the real place I wanna start
02:52 is the most interesting place from Sunday.
02:54 Because it was not on the field.
02:56 It was in the locker room.
02:57 When I was sitting next to Devon Gotchow for 10 minutes
03:00 and he had his feet, I kid you not,
03:02 it was one of these yellow ice buckets
03:05 that you used to see the janitors in school
03:06 drag around with a mop, mop bucket.
03:09 Instead, he had filled it with ice,
03:10 put both of his feet in there,
03:12 his giant legs, 330 something pound man.
03:15 And he's just sitting there,
03:16 say, "Hey, can I bug you?"
03:17 'Cause he and I chat fairly frequently in the locker room.
03:20 Reporters are in there, you know, standard week,
03:21 play on a Sunday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.
03:25 A lot about LSU, college football, doesn't matter.
03:27 So he and I chat for 10 minutes.
03:29 And after games like this or other scenarios,
03:32 I'll tell you, my approach as a reporter often is,
03:35 "Look, I have to write about this.
03:38 "I'm probably gonna talk about this on TV or the radio.
03:41 "Like, set me straight.
03:42 "What happened here?
03:43 "What did it feel like?
03:44 "I don't know what it's like to be Devon Gotchow.
03:46 "Tell me what it was like being Devon Gotchow
03:48 "in a game where you hold the chargers to 29 yards rushing.
03:51 "You hold them to six points.
03:53 "You are facing one of the best quarterbacks in the league.
03:55 "You guys are controlling the game,
03:58 "and yet you can't control it well enough to win
04:01 "because you need to score points to win a football game."
04:03 I'm not that animated, obviously,
04:04 but just telling him, "Look, I'm not."
04:06 The quote I used, kid you not,
04:07 was, "I'm not trying to stir shit."
04:09 And so he goes on, and he's honest with me
04:11 in a way that if I was a fan,
04:13 I would wanna know exactly how these players feel
04:15 because at home, sitting on my couch,
04:16 hopefully you had a beer or two, I'd be pissed too.
04:19 Two and 10, and somehow it feels worse than this.
04:22 And so instead of bringing back a podcast classic
04:25 of Andrew sits alone, talks to himself, and drinks alone,
04:29 we're gonna have Andrew sits by himself
04:32 and reads his own work to himself, obviously for you,
04:35 because this is what Gotchow said.
04:37 And these are some of the most revealing quotes
04:39 that I saw all week, that I've seen all season,
04:42 and it's not a credit to me,
04:43 it's a credit to a guy secure enough
04:45 in his standing on the team
04:46 and in the league to speak some truth.
04:48 And I'll be honest, they read pretty poorly.
04:51 I mean, they are, they're not great,
04:52 but he said it in a jovial tone that he was being honest
04:55 of like, this is the reality.
04:57 There's no need to hide from it.
04:59 I don't need to build a wall of cliches
05:01 and poke my head out and go, yeah, everything's fine.
05:04 Like that GIF that we all probably tweeted
05:06 or referenced, I know I did on Sunday watching that game.
05:08 And here's what Devon Gotchow said
05:09 about the offense and losing that game,
05:11 because this is the most important,
05:12 interesting part right now, two and 10.
05:14 Quote, it's frustrating.
05:16 It's frustrating.
05:17 I'm not going to sit up here and say, quote,
05:19 you know, I still believe, end quote.
05:21 It's fucking frustrating.
05:23 Anybody can tell you that.
05:24 You know, I thought Zabby made some good throws today.
05:26 I thought there was a couple of balls
05:27 we could have caught as receivers.
05:29 And those guys would tell you the same thing too.
05:31 They can take accountability.
05:32 And we all got fucked up shit we all messed up on.
05:35 But the margin of error in this league is so small.
05:37 Like Taekwon had the guy beat by three steps
05:39 and we've got to make those catches.
05:41 The margin of error is so small, man.
05:43 I still think Taekwon's got a bright future.
05:45 He's a really, really talented guy.
05:46 But the margin for error in this league is so small, man.
05:50 One opportunity that you let slip,
05:52 like we really didn't get another opportunity
05:54 to throw another deep ball.
05:55 DP, Vontae Parker, had one,
05:57 but he ended up being out of bounds.
05:59 I'm sad we didn't get it done, man.
06:01 I don't even remember if we won a home game against Buffalo.
06:03 That's probably the only one.
06:04 It's sad that we didn't give the fans what they want to win,
06:07 because I think we're a playoff team.
06:09 But our record doesn't show that.
06:10 We're a two and 10 team and it's just frustrating,
06:13 but no one's going to feel sorry for us.
06:15 So we pause.
06:16 Again, it's a 10 minute conversation.
06:17 I'm going to give you these quotes,
06:18 because if you haven't read them yet,
06:19 you deserve to know exactly how it was said,
06:21 how I went up to him and how it sounded
06:24 coming from someone on this defense
06:26 that again is experiencing something
06:27 that no one alive in the NFL right now,
06:30 Bill Belichick included,
06:31 has ever seen, 85 years since those Chicago Cardinals.
06:36 I told him, "Hey, next week,"
06:38 because he mentioned he's excited to go play in Pittsburgh
06:40 it's a great environment.
06:41 I said, "You know, Trubisky's actually
06:43 probably going to start for you,
06:43 because, or start against you.
06:45 Can he pick a turn?"
06:46 He goes, he interrupts me.
06:47 He goes, "It don't matter.
06:49 We got to score and we got to win.
06:51 We could get goddamn me at quarterback.
06:53 We still got to win.
06:54 But it's frustrating, man.
06:56 I won't even sit up there and lie to you
06:57 and tell you it's not.
06:58 Obviously you guys have been here longer than me
07:00 watching Patriots games.
07:02 This is very frustrating."
07:03 I cut the quote off here because he goes on talking
07:06 about the dynasty in two decades
07:08 and everyone loves the, you know,
07:09 the punk, the Patriots and yada, yada.
07:10 It's in the story, full body, full context.
07:13 Everything that he told me on the record.
07:15 And the dismount is this,
07:17 because we talked more about other things
07:19 and I brought it back to Pittsburgh,
07:20 looking ahead, what can you do?
07:22 And this is what he told me.
07:23 Quote, "It's going to be very interesting.
07:25 They have a lot of good players up front.
07:27 We've got some good players up front.
07:29 It's going to be interesting.
07:30 We've just got to get after them.
07:32 Like I said, we can't even afford
07:33 to let them kick a field goal.
07:35 We've got to hold them to zero.
07:37 It's going to be interesting next week.
07:39 I'm just excited to see whoever's a quarterback,
07:41 to see him keep getting better and better
07:42 and try to put up some points on the board next week
07:44 and just give us a chance."
07:46 That, ladies and gentlemen,
07:48 again, is where we are at two and 10
07:51 with this Patriots team.
07:52 The "You lucky, we ass" edition of an NFL team,
07:56 which is somehow so far in the rear view
07:59 because there has been just so much ass
08:01 that we've seen on the football field
08:02 at Gillette Stadium since.
08:03 You forget, Jerome Peppers had the quote
08:05 of the NFL season moving forward.
08:08 On God's show, this is the second straight week
08:12 a player has been open about their feelings
08:13 about being two and 10, and specifically on defense.
08:16 And that's not a crime.
08:17 This is not a bad thing.
08:18 Again, this is something I would imagine you at home
08:21 want to know exactly what they feel
08:22 instead of getting the same old tired BS at the podium.
08:26 But this, in those quotes,
08:30 is absolutely a violation of Belichick's
08:33 longstanding media policy of treating reporters,
08:35 as the old saying goes, like mushrooms.
08:37 Keep them in the dark and feed them shit.
08:39 And Adrian Phillips to me in New York,
08:42 just about a week and a half ago, said the same thing.
08:44 We got to hold them to zero.
08:45 If three points, 10 points is enough,
08:47 we got to hold them to zero.
08:48 Devon Gottschall repeats the same sentiment with a smile
08:52 'cause that's his life.
08:53 And we have gone through, we, the Patriots defense
08:57 has gone through the stages of grief faster
08:59 than I've seen any kind of team.
09:00 Because I'll tell you in that locker room,
09:02 it wasn't a circus or carnival or any kind of happy event
09:06 that you might find yourself at, but guys were smiling.
09:08 They were joking.
09:09 They know they had done their jobs.
09:11 The mantra that defines this franchise
09:12 and it wasn't good enough.
09:14 So what do you do with that?
09:15 You don't sit with it and sink into it.
09:17 You just go, well, onto the next.
09:20 And you be honest about things.
09:23 Even if you know this is gonna get you
09:24 dragged into Belichick's office, probably here Monday today,
09:27 a veteran reporter who I will not name,
09:30 texted me to say, nice work.
09:32 Too bad he's going to be cut tomorrow.
09:33 Because I'll be honest, Belichick has gotten
09:35 a lot more angry and threatened players over a lot less.
09:39 Anyway, none of this, as I said, is a crime.
09:42 But it makes you wonder, as I wrote about in my column,
09:45 naturally bashing a team that lost six nothing
09:47 and has scored 26 points in the last three weeks
09:49 and lost all of those games, 23 actually.
09:53 What comes next?
09:54 'Cause we have a long five weeks to go.
09:57 At Pittsburgh on Thursday, Kansas City after that.
10:00 On Sunday, if you hadn't heard, instead of Monday night,
10:02 the first team ever to have a home game
10:04 flexed from Monday night football to 1 o'clock
10:07 in a regional slot on Sunday.
10:09 Then you have at Denver on Christmas Eve,
10:12 at Buffalo New Year's Eve, and here come the Jets.
10:14 Not with Aaron Rodgers, because of course,
10:15 the man was never gonna come back.
10:17 He just wanted his name in the headlines.
10:19 And that's the Patriots' path forward.
10:21 So who else is gonna say something new?
10:24 Because you've heard me say this many times before.
10:26 I'm here for the intersection of the football
10:28 and the interesting.
10:29 I don't need guys to make splashy headlines
10:31 that that quote did, and did for the story at the Herald.
10:35 I just wanna know how you feel,
10:36 because I know you at home wanna know how they feel.
10:39 And obviously after six nothing, after a historic loss,
10:42 a historic stretch, that I think you deserve that.
10:46 If you're investing in this team with your time
10:48 and your energy and your money,
10:50 though frankly it costs apparently five bucks
10:52 to get into the game if you looked at SeatGeek
10:54 at the right time before kickoff,
10:57 and guys are finally telling it to you.
10:58 And I think that's a good thing.
10:59 I think it's a terrible way to get to this point.
11:01 But hey, you might get even more down the stretch
11:04 or it could get much worse,
11:05 depending on how Belichick reacts and responds.
11:08 Which if the podium is any indication,
11:10 this man is going down the same way he's always gone down,
11:12 which is just being stubborn in himself.
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12:07 To the good.
12:13 We're gonna do the good, the bad,
12:14 we need to talk NFL films.
12:16 I promise you that segment
12:17 is going to be very short this week.
12:18 And then as I promised your mailbag questions.
12:23 An aside, because this wouldn't be
12:26 a past interference episode
12:27 if I told you we're gonna do something
12:28 and I went in a different direction.
12:29 But very quickly, I wanna say thank you
12:32 to everyone who submitted a question this week.
12:34 Because I don't know what it is about my listenership,
12:37 but you guys really deliver on that front.
12:39 Like I always think,
12:41 and this is just how Sports Talk Radio
12:42 has been done forever.
12:43 That when you take callers,
12:45 it's great to engage with your audience.
12:47 But I don't remember a call in my lifetime
12:50 listening to sports radio.
12:52 Where I was like, yeah, wow.
12:55 John in Swampskip really made a great point.
12:58 Like you're outsourcing the content when you take calls.
13:03 I do this 'cause I wanna hear from you
13:05 and I wanna be able to give you some answers.
13:07 I don't have high hopes, honestly,
13:08 for a lot of these mailbag questions
13:10 when people come up with new,
13:11 but you guys deliver every single goddamn week.
13:14 And I am very thankful for that.
13:16 Even if Thanksgiving was now what, two weeks away,
13:18 we could all be grateful every single day.
13:19 I try to be, and today I'm telling you, thank you.
13:22 Okay, the good.
13:24 Also thankful for this,
13:25 because amid the six nothing muck,
13:27 we had some bright points.
13:29 Bullet point number one, man coverage for the Patriots.
13:31 I was worried, you heard me talk about this.
13:33 JC Jackson bombed against the Giants,
13:37 against Tommy DeVito.
13:39 And yet, that man did not allow a single catch
13:42 in man coverage to Keenan Allen,
13:43 and neither did Jonathan Jones.
13:45 Miles Bryant started the game with a pass breakup,
13:48 working against Keenan Allen,
13:49 who the Patriots were, frankly,
13:51 I don't wanna say unafraid of,
13:52 they have a lot of respect in that locker room
13:54 for Keenan Allen.
13:54 This goes back, hell, five, closing in on six years.
13:58 I remember doing a piece in 2018,
14:00 asking guys like Steph Gilmore,
14:01 peak of his powers,
14:02 soon to be defensive player of the year the next season,
14:05 like who's the guy who's underrated,
14:06 who's really, really good?
14:08 He said Keenan Allen,
14:09 D'Ron Harmon said Keenan Allen,
14:11 Devin McCourty said Keenan Allen,
14:13 and I get that Keenan Allen's not 31,
14:15 but the Patriots manned up on him in a way
14:19 that was unexpected for me,
14:20 and they delivered in a way that shocked me.
14:23 Justin Herbert against man coverage,
14:24 five of 14 for 70 yards, according to my charting.
14:29 Nice work in the back end.
14:31 In the middle, Mack Wilson,
14:33 one pressure, one pass breakup, 28 snaps, very well done.
14:37 Christian Barmore, we're still beating the drum.
14:40 The man is a monster in the middle.
14:42 Now, I only had him down for one pressure.
14:45 I'm like, oh, this isn't that great of a game.
14:47 Mind you, the Chargers, for the first time this season,
14:50 really wanted to run the ball, even though they stink at it,
14:52 and so he had a lot of dirty work to do
14:55 with a depleted defensive line missing each or twice.
14:57 He did that dirty work and then some,
14:59 and had, I wanna say three reps at least,
15:02 where he beats a single block
15:04 and gets within an inch of a run stuff or a pressure
15:07 in a way that I would be saying,
15:08 oh, he had three quarterback hits in an extra hurry.
15:11 He didn't, but he came that close,
15:13 and those wins will go down positively
15:15 when he gets graded by the coaches probably today.
15:19 So I wanna highlight him.
15:19 Lastly, run defense, again,
15:21 the Chargers are historically futile
15:23 when it comes to their success rate running the ball.
15:25 Are you just getting 40% of the yards you need on first down,
15:29 60 on second down, and then are you converting
15:31 if you get to third and fourth down?
15:33 That's success rate.
15:34 That's all it is, very simple.
15:35 Are you staying on schedule?
15:36 They are as late as I've always been
15:39 turning in papers in school,
15:41 and frankly, articles on deadline this Thursday night
15:44 is gonna be a little while for me in Pittsburgh.
15:46 Anyway, the Patriots still have them
15:48 to 29 total yards on the ground,
15:51 and I don't care if you're facing these Chargers
15:53 or any other team in the league.
15:54 That's a good day at the office for that defensive front.
15:57 The bad, we'll go quick, pass protection, five sacks.
16:01 I expected Bailey Zappe to be at fault
16:03 on more of these than he was,
16:05 not because I hate Bailey Zappe or I think he sucks.
16:08 It's because he likes to hold onto the ball.
16:11 It's his binky as a guy in his early 20s, okay?
16:15 And the thing is, most of those sacks weren't his fault,
16:19 and the last one was the worst of them all
16:21 because I tweeted this picture
16:23 and muted immediately because just like pointing out
16:26 that the stats say Bailey Zappe has been worse
16:28 than Mac Jones by EPA and completion percentage
16:31 over expected, basically measuring how accurate are you
16:35 in the function of the offense when you include EPA.
16:37 Like, he's been worse, that's fine.
16:40 Whatever it is, they both suck.
16:41 But the offensive line let him down
16:44 and Ezekiel Elliott on fourth and five
16:46 with seven minutes left at the Chargers 30
16:48 points at Derwin James.
16:50 Bailey Zappe points at Derwin James
16:52 and Tyquan Thornton standing across from Derwin James
16:55 points at him too and goes, he's going to blitz.
16:58 And you know what happened?
16:59 Derwin James did blitz and he got the sack
17:03 and Zeke missed it and this was bad.
17:05 This is very bad.
17:06 And you just, you can't have that.
17:08 But the thing is Bailey Zappe got sacked on half
17:11 of his snaps when he was pressured.
17:13 And this is something we've talked about before.
17:14 I think I have my notes.
17:15 We're going to get to this later.
17:17 And if not, oh, we are going to get to it
17:18 because we're going to talk about Malik Cunningham.
17:21 It's just not good enough.
17:22 On Wenu, Trent Brown, McDermott, just to be specific
17:26 all gave up sacks.
17:28 Mention Ezekiel Elliott, Julius Peppers missed three tackles
17:31 on defense and you might be wondering why, Andrew,
17:33 how the hell do you not get to the receivers
17:36 when we're talking about the bad
17:39 of last Sunday's six to nothing game?
17:41 Well, here you are.
17:42 We need to talk again.
17:44 The segment we have done now five straight weeks
17:47 in lieu of game balls,
17:48 'cause we don't hand out game balls after losses.
17:50 I mean, what else is there to say?
17:54 Were you honestly surprised by these receivers?
17:58 The worst receiving core in the league
18:01 that is sinking this season as fast,
18:05 if not a little bit less so than the quarterbacks.
18:07 Keyshawn Booty not getting a second foot down
18:09 against Philadelphia.
18:10 Devontae Parker dropping that bomb at Vegas.
18:12 Juju Schmischuster setting like he's playing volleyball
18:15 with the commander's defense
18:16 for a game-sealing interception for a loss in week nine.
18:20 And now Ty Quanthorten, his turn to kneecap his teammates,
18:23 drops the ball late third quarter.
18:25 Perfect bomb, great play call, great execution,
18:28 except for him at the end.
18:29 It's great that he had the 39 yard run at the end round,
18:31 also set up by good play calling.
18:34 But this is horrendous.
18:37 Thornhead zero catches.
18:38 Juju had one for the fourth time this season.
18:42 Jalen Rager had one.
18:44 That Juju catch also, by the way,
18:46 if you go back and see it, don't, but I'll tell you.
18:48 First half, second and 11,
18:51 Patriots had some sort of negative play
18:53 at first down, obviously.
18:54 All of the offensive linemen, cut block,
18:57 which you just don't see on second, third and long,
19:01 and all the receivers run either little flare screens
19:04 to the outside, like little hitches basically,
19:06 or curls over the middle.
19:08 This is not a, we intend to convert right away.
19:10 This was a, we just need a completion.
19:13 And that's when he found Juju Smith-Schuster,
19:14 who of course, against deep, soft coverage,
19:17 which you normally play at second and 11, gave up.
19:19 Anyway, that was Juju's one catch.
19:21 We need to talk, you need to sit,
19:22 you need to be in timeout.
19:23 Oh, and Juju and Devontae Parker were limited today,
19:26 according to the Patriots projected injury report,
19:28 which means they didn't practice,
19:29 but you got to send something out
19:30 when you play Thursday night.
19:32 What would NFL film say?
19:33 Nothing.
19:35 I think our fictitious cameramen,
19:39 the guys holding the mics, the producers,
19:42 the voiceover guys have all called out sick.
19:45 They say, "This sucks.
19:46 "Callahan, this is a stupid idea.
19:48 "Documentary is over.
19:49 "We have all suffered enough."
19:51 And it's a holiday, so I don't blame them.
19:53 We will continue to do the segment,
19:54 but I just, if you're NFL films documenting a team season,
19:59 and it's this bad, and that game was the worst of them,
20:02 at least offensively, I think.
20:05 Actually, it was not the worst.
20:06 They take that back.
20:07 Billy Zappi did not pull the pin out of their grenade
20:09 and then hold both parts like we saw Mac Jones do
20:11 for time and again in the four times he's been benched.
20:14 But you just, you skip over this one, okay?
20:17 Home cooking didn't work on a Thursday night football.
20:19 That'll be more of a spectacle.
20:20 You hope, you hope that we have points.
20:23 Okay, I said we talk about Malik,
20:24 and then we'll get to the mailbag,
20:25 'cause again, we don't do anything on time or quickly here.
20:29 This is about a larger point, Malik Cunningham,
20:33 because disclaimer, I am not someone who believes
20:36 he's a starting NFL quarterback.
20:38 I do not believe he's practiced enough
20:40 to start multiple games.
20:41 I don't even know if he's gonna be legitimate backup.
20:44 But I do believe firmly,
20:47 based on the state of this quarterback's room,
20:49 with Mac Jones, who's unplayable, and Billy Zappi,
20:53 who gets applause from Bill Belichick today on the radio,
20:58 because he just didn't screw up as badly as the other guy.
21:01 Okay, I believe that Malik warrants a look.
21:04 And for two reasons.
21:05 One, you've probably heard me say this before,
21:07 he amplifies the only strength of this offense.
21:09 This is a top five, top 10 rushing attack
21:13 by EPA and success rate, staying on schedule, okay?
21:16 For the last six, seven weeks.
21:18 He does that, or he would do that,
21:20 as someone who's experienced running option.
21:22 He played a ton in college, and he has four or five speed.
21:26 That's enough.
21:27 Number two is he would play under pressure.
21:28 You would think in a way that would be helpful.
21:32 And we saw this from Billy Zappi, an improvement.
21:34 He didn't throw the ball to the other team
21:36 when he got a little bit of heat
21:38 up the middle of the pocket,
21:39 something we've seen Mac Jones do time and time again.
21:41 But he did, as I say, take a sack on 50% of the drives,
21:45 which are just killers.
21:47 If you are not an explosive offense,
21:48 generally you do not recover from drives
21:50 when you have a sack, and you punt.
21:53 What did the Patriots do?
21:54 Well, they either punted or took a turnover on downs.
21:56 That's how all of those drives went
21:58 when Billy Zappi took a sack.
21:59 And I'm not saying Malik Cunningham wouldn't take a sack.
22:02 Okay, in the two snap sample we have
22:05 of him playing quarterback back at Vegas in week six,
22:08 he took one sack on a busted play.
22:12 I just think he'd be able to scramble.
22:14 Guys in the team have told me he'd be able to do something.
22:16 He's dangerous.
22:17 He can get outside.
22:18 It's a totally different ball game
22:20 defending a quarterback like him,
22:21 even if, granted, he certainly can't pass
22:24 like Billy Zappi or Mac Jones,
22:25 or we don't know that yet.
22:27 But given the state of the offense,
22:29 you have scored zero, seven, and six points
22:33 over the last three weeks.
22:36 This is the definition of insanity,
22:38 continuing to roll with this offense
22:39 in the way that they have.
22:40 Malik would obviously be a big pivot.
22:42 Now, again, I said this was gonna be a larger point.
22:44 Here it is.
22:45 Someone in the Patriots organization years ago
22:49 told me that Bill Belichick,
22:52 as someone who is a supposed master
22:54 of eliminating distractions,
22:56 also has an unusual talent
22:58 for making life more complicated and difficult
23:00 for those around him,
23:02 just for the sake of it, often.
23:04 And in a small way,
23:05 I think that's what this Malik situation is really about.
23:08 Because all these weeks later,
23:10 the more I think about it,
23:12 I agree with friend of the podcast,
23:14 Boston Sports Journal's Mike Giardi,
23:16 about Malik Cunningham getting that backup spot
23:21 week six against the Raiders
23:23 as Mac Jones' only healthy, available backup.
23:27 Billy Zappi was actually healthy.
23:29 They just didn't want him.
23:31 And the reason Mike says
23:33 that he was the only backup that day
23:36 is because Billy Zappi the week before,
23:38 when the Patriots get whooped by the Saints,
23:41 and Mac Jones gets benched the second time
23:43 for throwing a pick, a pick six, and losing a fumble,
23:46 says over a half dozen times to reporters,
23:49 "You can't turn the ball over.
23:51 "We lost 'cause of turnovers.
23:52 "You can't turn the ball over.
23:53 "You can't turn the ball over.
23:53 "You can't turn the ball over."
23:55 And Mike believes that Bill sat him that week to say,
23:58 "Who the hell do you think you are, Billy Zappi?
24:01 "Someone I just cut?
24:03 "Someone you think you can needle
24:05 "and be cute with the press?"
24:07 Okay, ask Wes Walker how that went before a playoff game,
24:11 how I took that.
24:12 Okay, so how about you sit this week
24:14 as we play the Raiders defense,
24:15 who aside from Max Crosby, let's be honest,
24:17 is not pressuring anyone much more than the shy kid
24:20 at the school dance standing in the corner, okay?
24:22 We'll take Malik for the week.
24:24 Go ahead.
24:25 See you like being a healthy scratch there, Billy Zappi.
24:28 Because that game, when we talk about Malik Cunningham,
24:31 is the only data point that doesn't make any sense.
24:34 What else do we know about Malik Cunningham?
24:36 Okay, undrafted rookie,
24:38 is the highest paid undrafted rookie
24:41 ever signed by the Patriots.
24:43 He got cut.
24:44 That's what happens to undrafted rookies.
24:46 He comes back at the practice squad.
24:48 That's where undrafted rookie receiver quarterbacks live.
24:51 Then he gets this weird promotion in week six,
24:54 and then goes back to the practice squad,
24:56 basically until this week.
24:58 And he gets elevated on Sunday.
25:01 But for what?
25:02 He didn't play.
25:04 He expected to play.
25:06 He confirmed to me personally,
25:07 there was a package of plays for him in the game plan.
25:10 A game plan, by the way,
25:12 that had a 67% run rate on first downs.
25:16 Like that was the plan.
25:18 Give it to Rami Andrei-Stevenson,
25:19 give it to Ezekiel Elliott,
25:21 and let Malik Cunningham run around.
25:22 Oh, except we're not gonna play him this week.
25:25 And so Bill really made this more complicated
25:29 for the rest of the team at a point in time
25:31 in which they were one and four
25:32 with their season hanging by a thread going to Vegas.
25:35 And not that it mattered in the end.
25:36 Mack Jones didn't get hurt, played the whole game.
25:39 Except for when Malik played quarterback for three snaps,
25:41 and it didn't go well, totally.
25:43 Offer that up.
25:44 Like, what are you doing here?
25:47 What was the plan?
25:48 What is the plan now?
25:50 There is nothing that should prevent you from saying,
25:52 we should try this.
25:54 Like if it was only in the red zone,
25:56 I think you're just limiting yourself then,
25:58 given we saw Malik Cunningham's best play
26:00 from the preseason was outside the red zone,
26:02 nearly throwing a touchdown pass.
26:03 It's one preseason play, it's against four stringers,
26:06 all of that, I get it, I'm on board.
26:08 But this is a case that makes no sense.
26:12 And there are so many of them in Foxborough
26:15 compared to other NFL teams.
26:18 When the formula here should be simple.
26:21 Find the best players and play them.
26:23 Because we can't play these little games,
26:26 these mind games with our players
26:28 in the middle of the worst lost season.
26:30 Because what message does that send?
26:32 Mind you, we've been talking about
26:33 sending bad messages all year,
26:34 until they sat JC Jackson and cut Jack Jones,
26:37 which they finally come around.
26:39 But you had a lot of unhappy players in that locker room.
26:42 You heard quotes from the start of this.
26:46 And some of those same players
26:48 see Malik Cunningham as a positive changeup.
26:51 And when he gets promoted,
26:53 and he practices and plays quarterback,
26:55 and says, "I felt more like myself this week.
26:57 I felt good, I was ready to go."
26:58 And then you don't play him.
27:00 What the hell is the point of any of this?
27:02 Especially in a game, when what you did instead
27:05 led to this many points.
27:07 A big fat goose egg.
27:08 So let's be clear.
27:11 If we take away the Vegas game,
27:15 there's a whole lot less conversation about this.
27:18 Right?
27:19 Undrafted rookie, plays a little quarterback,
27:21 plays a little receiver, he's on the practice squad.
27:23 It's fine.
27:24 But because Bill does that,
27:26 it's not some media-driven narrative.
27:28 Media didn't give him any snaps in practice.
27:30 They didn't build a package for him.
27:31 They didn't elevate him,
27:32 sign him to the 53-man roster for that game in Vegas.
27:35 Okay?
27:37 Play him at both positions in the summer,
27:39 and pre-season, make the entire locker room,
27:41 not the entire locker room,
27:42 but most of the locker room like him, respect him.
27:44 It wasn't on us.
27:45 If anyone, it was on Bill.
27:49 Okay.
27:51 Mailbag.
27:52 I'm fired up today.
27:52 What's happening?
27:53 This is gonna continue actually,
27:54 because KJ has the first question.
27:56 Sounds pointed at me.
27:58 Not in a way that obviously all these questions
28:00 are pointed at me.
28:01 I got them on my Twitter feed.
28:03 Anyway, KJ.
28:04 Quote, "Why do you, Mac supporters,
28:07 "ignore circumstances when Zappy plays,
28:10 "but circumstances define Mac's play no matter what?"
28:15 Well, my friend KJ,
28:17 I don't know if you read my Sunday notes,
28:19 which was an exploration of
28:20 how are we gonna remember Mac Jones?
28:22 If you didn't, I led off talking about
28:26 how human memory is impacted
28:28 by just like the position of information.
28:30 Okay?
28:31 The things that you see first and last on a grocery list,
28:34 or the digits in a phone number
28:35 that someone's relaying to you.
28:36 You typically, we typically remember things
28:38 that happen first and last,
28:39 and forget about those in the middle.
28:41 And my point was, Mac Jones's first season was great.
28:44 This season has been a dumpster fire.
28:47 And yet the one that we should probably remember most,
28:49 if we really wanna know what Mac Jones was about,
28:52 was the one in the middle.
28:53 Where, yeah, a lot of people I talked to,
28:56 a lot of people at home listening to this,
28:57 pinned that whole dysfunctional garbage
28:59 2022 season on coaching.
29:02 But it was really the middle of what Mac Jones is.
29:04 Guy who can flash against the Vikings on Thanksgiving,
29:07 and melts into a puddle against the sign of pressure,
29:09 like he's done basically since.
29:11 And so I say this because,
29:14 there is a different social psychological phenomena
29:17 that explains this, and it's called the self-serving bias.
29:20 Instead of order of information, it's a serial position.
29:23 I forgot it right now.
29:24 Because of course you forget the one time
29:26 you bring up a piece of social psych, breathe a piece.
29:30 This one though, self-serving bias,
29:31 is basically the tendency to explain,
29:34 when good things happen for us, successes,
29:37 is because of our traits, what we do.
29:40 I did that, not circumstances.
29:43 And when we fail, it's typically circumstances.
29:45 And it's the inverse, the opposite for other people.
29:48 Okay, so like say you trip on the sidewalk.
29:51 Oh, you're too tired.
29:52 I mean, you got no sleep last night, you're on your phone.
29:55 But you see someone else trip on the sidewalk.
29:57 Look at that idiot.
30:00 Okay, oh, not that they were tired.
30:02 And so when people identify with a player or a team,
30:06 you take on that same self-serving bias.
30:08 It's not the team's fault, it's not Mac's fault,
30:10 it's the circumstances.
30:12 And then they look at Zappy or whatever it might be.
30:14 You get the point?
30:15 Like you identify with the player,
30:16 then you take on that same kind of attitude or approach.
30:18 Like when you say we, we lost, okay?
30:21 We are not a bad team, okay?
30:23 You're not on the team, we all know that.
30:24 But that's how you speak, that's how we internalize it.
30:26 As fans, I do for the teams that I root for,
30:28 which are not in the NFL.
30:29 The Kowalskis should have beaten Kansas last week.
30:32 Anyway, that's what this is.
30:34 As far as my support for Mac,
30:36 I don't know what more I can do,
30:38 aside from being on television over two months ago,
30:40 and say, I'm out.
30:42 He'll never be a good starting quarterback for the Patriots.
30:44 And right, many times since then,
30:46 including just about a month ago now,
30:49 the era should be over.
30:50 Like we can all see the circumstances.
30:54 And say, oh, maybe I was a little bit tired.
30:57 Or I should just pay attention and not be a doof.
30:59 Like we can see it's a bad offense,
31:01 a bad, the worst receiving core in the league.
31:03 Not a great coaching staff.
31:05 And the quarterbacks, isolated from that environment,
31:07 are walking down the street, are what they are.
31:09 It's all bad.
31:10 Anyway, that's enough psychology talk for today.
31:13 Mace, quote, "How can any team want Bill Belichick
31:17 "as a coach after seeing how awful they play under him?
31:19 "I think he's the GOAT, but we almost have a half decade
31:22 "of Bill being one of the worst coaches in the NFL
31:25 "at this point.
31:26 "Assembling a staff and player development matters."
31:28 It does matter.
31:30 Here's the thing about any team wanting Bill Belichick.
31:33 These teams are run by owners that you can take it from me,
31:38 or you can take it from people like Dominique Foxworth,
31:41 who once sat across the table from these owners
31:44 two CBA negotiations ago, and very quickly learned,
31:46 staring across from Jerry Jones,
31:48 Jerry Richardson, Robert Kraft,
31:50 they're not that much smarter than me.
31:52 They might be rich and successful,
31:54 but a lot of them inherited their businesses
31:59 or found fortunate circumstances.
32:01 We're kind of doing this self-serving bias thing right now,
32:03 but you can listen from Dominique or just take it from me.
32:05 Or the best point of argument I could make
32:08 is watch the horrendous press conference David Tepper gave
32:13 just last week in Carolina after Frank Reich got fired.
32:16 That tells you everything you need to know
32:18 about how some of these guys function.
32:20 And so when David Tepper fires Frank Reich after 11 games,
32:24 his third coach he's fired in the middle of a season,
32:27 this is the same guy who, if Bill Belichick
32:29 walks into a room, the Panthers call him,
32:31 Bill picks up and says, "Yeah, I'll come in."
32:32 And they're, you know, they'll say like,
32:34 "Okay, we gotta make Bill prove this.
32:36 "We're not just gonna let him walk in and take the job
32:38 "and write the contract and we'll sign it."
32:40 Or it could be Chicago, this could be Washington.
32:43 Again, teams that are starving for relevance
32:46 and something that even as bad as it's been for Belichick,
32:48 you know, if we bring him in, we'll at least consider it.
32:51 The first thing Belichick does is drops one, two,
32:55 three, four, five, six, seven, eight
32:59 Super Bowl rings on the table.
33:01 And he sits there silently
33:05 because he can endure awkward silences
33:08 more than any human being I've heard of,
33:09 or you've probably seen, okay?
33:12 And you look at those rings and understand
33:13 that he's won more of those than anyone else in the world.
33:17 And then you talk about the last couple of years.
33:20 He goes, "Well, look, this season was a season from hell.
33:23 "You work in this business long enough,
33:25 "you're gonna have them.
33:26 "You're gonna lose your best players like I did,
33:28 "Matt Judon, Christian Gonzalez, boom,
33:30 "both gone week four.
33:31 "Offensive tackles, both got hurt.
33:33 "Guys are signing for agency.
33:35 "We drafted some, we had them ready to play.
33:37 "They're playing pretty well right now."
33:38 Again, successful rushing offense,
33:39 but quarterback can't get it together mentally.
33:43 And I gave him plenty of chances.
33:45 Had to bench him four times.
33:46 And yeah, I get that I drafted all these guys,
33:48 but you know what I didn't draft was Bill O'Brien.
33:50 That was a hire, as Belichick will say,
33:52 forced upon me by ownership.
33:53 Lo and behold, it's much worse than the offense
33:55 that I ran last year with Matt Patricia.
33:58 And yeah, that season didn't go great,
33:59 but we were in so many close games.
34:01 We were one game away in 2022 for making the playoffs.
34:03 And if you look at the year before,
34:05 I just needed a one-year reset to get back to the playoffs.
34:08 And I had the number one seed in December.
34:11 You know, you get a rookie quarterback and some bad luck.
34:13 Like he explains everything away
34:17 in a way that Tom Curran, friend of the podcast,
34:19 told you last time he was on here.
34:20 Bill is a guy who could shoot a 90 on the course
34:22 and say, yeah, that could have been a 70.
34:25 Big golf guy.
34:27 I don't know if he would say that,
34:28 but that's how you talk yourself into that job.
34:31 You start with the rings, the career,
34:33 and you explain away as we just did
34:35 for people who like Mac versus Zappy.
34:37 Circumstances are responsible for all of my failures
34:40 and for the successes.
34:41 It's all me, the greatest coach of all time,
34:43 who you want because you made the call.
34:45 That's why I'm sitting here.
34:46 And as I'm sitting here, you get the impression
34:48 that I still know what I'm talking about.
34:50 Because either you're someone who doesn't know
34:52 how to make hires, as David Tepper
34:54 and others have certainly proven, or you don't care.
34:56 You say, we'll get you for three years.
34:58 Bill gets a record.
35:01 You get the residual effects of all that,
35:03 all the positivity, the initial buy-in from fans.
35:05 You get butts in the seats.
35:06 And if it doesn't work out, you go, well, look,
35:09 how could I go wrong hiring the greatest coach of all time?
35:13 Because I will tell you this,
35:15 national people are only just now coming around
35:18 to the fact that it's that bad in Fox, bro.
35:22 Holy shit.
35:24 Kidding you not, Rich Eisen, NFL Network,
35:26 before that Germany game.
35:28 It's on Tom Curran's podcast.
35:30 Saying the same thing, being like,
35:31 come on, this can't be serious.
35:32 It was actually Vice Verse, and Tom was on his show.
35:34 Anyway, too much Tom Curran for this.
35:36 But the point is, these owners can be talked into that.
35:40 They might be talking themselves into it,
35:41 making it very easy on Belichick.
35:43 And if you have multiple bidders, get Chicago,
35:46 Carolina, Washington, certainly.
35:48 Doesn't sound like any changes can happen in Buffalo.
35:52 Maybe Tampa Bay.
35:54 I don't know, the Chargers.
35:56 Other issues there.
35:57 How much ownership wants to spend on Belichick,
35:59 he's not going to come cheap.
36:01 But they'd be willing to do that.
36:03 Someone will be, if not more.
36:05 All right, we're going to go a little quicker.
36:07 Ashley, hi, Andrew.
36:08 What is one underrated position on this team
36:10 that you think will have to address this off season?
36:12 The obvious three are quarterback,
36:14 offensive tackle, and wide receiver.
36:16 Again, I'm talking like we, you internalize it.
36:18 You guys are the Patriots,
36:18 just as much as Tyquan Thornton is, maybe unfortunately.
36:22 I would say tight end,
36:24 because you got to stay on offense, right?
36:27 Like, say what you will about the defense,
36:29 and some depth is going to take some hits,
36:32 but Gusicki's in a contract year.
36:34 Hunter Henry's in a contract year.
36:35 Pharoah Brown, same deal.
36:37 And Hunter Henry might come back,
36:39 but what about his play has inspired you
36:41 the last year and a half?
36:42 And again, understanding the circumstances,
36:44 we can isolate some good games from Hunter Henry,
36:46 but it's not like he wows you
36:47 in any one particular part of his game.
36:49 He's a good, decent, all-around tight end.
36:52 Mike Gusicki has just not been a good fit,
36:53 and he's a highly specialized player.
36:58 And you had overlap immediately.
36:59 Remember, kind of questioning that at the time,
37:01 him and Juju.
37:02 So I would go with tight end.
37:02 Someone that can be a two-way player,
37:04 with the Patriots want to play offense.
37:06 Most teams do, frankly.
37:08 The guy who's a threat as a run blocker
37:09 and a receiving tight end,
37:10 you just don't have that in a way
37:12 that defenses feel that kind of player.
37:14 So yeah, after you check off quarterback,
37:15 receiver, offense, tackle, throw in a tight end.
37:19 Fuad, "Hey Andrew, just wanted to say thanks
37:21 "for your interactions with us fans."
37:23 Of course.
37:23 "Good question, do the Crafts have any football advisors
37:25 "outside of the Belichick tree whom they can turn to
37:28 "when it comes to finding the next head coach
37:30 "and general manager?
37:31 "And when do you think they will mention changes
37:33 "that will happen?"
37:34 So I think I answered this actually, Fuad,
37:36 a couple of weeks ago.
37:38 And my point was to say, look,
37:40 we understand Belichick came from the Parcells tree.
37:43 In between, they had Pete Carroll.
37:45 So this is an ownership group that,
37:48 granted that was almost now 30 years ago
37:50 and Pete Carroll came aboard,
37:51 but is not afraid to go outside.
37:54 And most importantly, has gained a ton of experience
37:57 being in the league, interacting with other owners,
38:02 coaches, coaches that have come, that have gone,
38:05 and learned about how the league works
38:07 and what works best.
38:08 I'm not saying they're gonna nail the hire.
38:09 This is basically just as hard
38:11 as drafting a first-round quarterback.
38:13 Not a great success rate at either of those positions.
38:16 But while I can't give you the short list
38:18 of the people that they would call,
38:19 they have a massive network.
38:22 Not only because they've been around,
38:24 but people pick up when the Crafts call.
38:26 They are among the most respected ownership groups
38:28 in all of sports.
38:29 So if they wanna get ahold of someone,
38:31 and we know Jonathan Crafts has been very involved
38:33 at the MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference
38:35 every single year,
38:38 that goes not just for traditional football people
38:41 or ownership groups.
38:42 Like they'll look at different numbers,
38:44 or numbers people in analytics
38:46 to kind of build and make this decision.
38:48 Again, still based on what I've heard,
38:51 based on what I believe, Jarrod Mayo
38:53 is still a favorite to be the next Patriots head coach.
38:56 I don't know what those odds are.
38:57 We could be talking about minus 150 or plus 1000.
39:01 I'm gonna need Mike Banansky to come on back
39:02 and explain exactly what I just said.
39:04 But point being, they've got plenty of people
39:07 that they can talk to and consult.
39:08 And the upside of this season,
39:11 again, going straight into the sewer,
39:12 is that they have more time to make those calls
39:14 and gather that information
39:16 and obviously make a decision that will be coming up.
39:18 Caleb, "Hey, Andrew, I was wondering
39:20 what if there is any intel on how the Crafts feel right now?
39:23 I find it interesting that we haven't seen much
39:25 or heard from the Crafts lately."
39:27 That shouldn't surprise you.
39:29 "Are things gonna get ugly after the season? Thanks."
39:32 So I do not have any intel here for you.
39:36 And I think the Crafts are wise to stay quiet on this.
39:40 You will hear a lot more speculation.
39:41 I mean, it's already started
39:43 about how the season is gonna end
39:44 and not even in, "Is Belichick going to leave?"
39:47 No, no, that's an assumption now.
39:49 That is baked into our expectations
39:52 and our lives for the next couple of months.
39:54 And certainly in January and February,
39:55 whenever what's going to happen will happen.
39:57 I'm not guaranteeing it,
39:58 but I'm gonna go by the same assumption.
40:00 To answer the second question, yeah, it could get ugly
40:05 in a way that Belichick is under contract.
40:08 He might not wanna get traded,
40:09 which is the primary reason to hold onto that contract
40:12 is to get some sort of compensation for him
40:14 for whatever team that might want to sign him.
40:16 And if Belichick doesn't want to be traded,
40:19 because obviously that would lessen
40:21 the pool of assets for that team
40:25 and give him less to work with when he arrives,
40:28 you're in a little bit of a stalemate.
40:30 And so there's a staring contest
40:32 of would Bill really wanna be here for another year?
40:34 And again, we just talked about this.
40:36 Darryl Moore gets this in the NBA,
40:38 is like the king of being comfortable
40:41 when things are uncomfortable.
40:44 Okay, okay, Belichick has had that crown.
40:45 He's not giving him that crown.
40:47 That is his in American sports.
40:49 Watch any press conference, it's him.
40:52 So, and to stare down with player agents or ownership,
40:56 like he's gonna be fine to dig his heels in.
40:58 Where that leads next, I don't know.
41:00 But you certainly would think that Kraft
41:02 is applying a little bit of pressure
41:04 to make it inhospitable for him to stay,
41:07 because it is in the best interest, as I see it at least,
41:10 of this team and ownership group
41:11 to hit the full reset button.
41:13 And that doesn't involve Bill Belichick.
41:15 So yeah, I think it could get ugly.
41:18 I don't know if it will.
41:19 I don't know what Belichick wants.
41:20 He might just say, yeah, get me out of here.
41:21 I'll go.
41:22 I don't care about the third round pick.
41:23 I'll recoup it somehow with another trade
41:26 with another dumb team.
41:27 Okay, again, this is a guy,
41:28 I guess I'm gonna administer him again.
41:31 Tom Curran came on.
41:33 And if you wanna know about ownership intel,
41:36 was way ahead on the Bill O'Brien hire last year.
41:39 And I think we'll be ahead of the curve this season.
41:42 I'll leave it at that.
41:43 John, quote, "If Patriots willing to eat the contracts
41:45 of Devante Parker and Juju
41:47 and cut ties with them in the off season.
41:48 If so, does that handcuff them cap-wise
41:50 to bring in free agent receivers?"
41:52 No, it does not.
41:54 They are, I think last time I checked,
41:56 scheduled to have the third most cap space in the year.
41:59 They were at number one earlier this season.
42:01 And then the Bears made some sort of trade and leaped them.
42:04 But the bottom line is,
42:06 if anyone wants to make a cap argument to them,
42:09 show them how much money the Patriots has spent this year
42:12 and are scheduled to spend hard cash.
42:14 Like this is from a team building perspective.
42:17 Like players care about guaranteed salary
42:19 versus the total number, right?
42:21 You as a fan should care about the cash spending,
42:23 the actual money going out the door
42:24 versus this hollow number, this figure on our books
42:29 that can be changed or manipulated and moved around.
42:31 The cap does matter.
42:32 People saying cap is crap is just,
42:34 they just love to rhyme on the radio.
42:36 It's not true.
42:38 But there's so much money available to be spent
42:42 and so much capital available to them.
42:44 They should be able to spend and do whatever they want,
42:46 which is really the bigger question is what do they want?
42:49 To actually spend or not?
42:50 As far as Parker and Juju,
42:52 another question I gave a couple weeks,
42:55 maybe a month or two ago about this.
42:58 It's easiest to trade them at the end of next summer
43:02 or basically after June 1st.
43:04 In those deals, you would probably have to attach
43:06 a late round pick to get off of their salaries,
43:09 at which point I don't know how the new head coach,
43:11 assuming again, there's gonna be a new head coach
43:13 or GM would feel.
43:14 Juju is more problematic.
43:16 It's over 7 million, it might be nine
43:18 if you just outright cut them.
43:19 I think it's when it gets down to seven,
43:21 if they did trade them, but who the hell wants that contract?
43:23 I mean, when he signed,
43:25 I'm looking at the numbers going,
43:26 okay, he's here through 2024
43:28 because of the guarantees.
43:29 Now they could just take the dead money
43:30 if they're willing to go for a full reset,
43:32 but no one likes to waste money,
43:34 even if you are swimming in it like the crafts are,
43:38 because that's a lost investment.
43:39 And obviously the player's already lost,
43:41 but you're either gonna have to ship out more assets
43:43 with them just to get them off your books
43:45 or cut them and take the dead money as it is.
43:47 And look, there are a lot of teams
43:49 that have been willing to do that in recent years
43:51 for a lot more than just seven or 9 million.
43:53 So together it would be over 10 trading
43:56 or around 10 trading or cutting.
43:58 And if you really want to know,
44:01 tweet at me, email me, whatever,
44:02 and I will find those numbers for you.
44:04 Jordan, "Sounds like the plan was to have Mayo
44:07 as a head coach and keep Bill O'Brien
44:08 as the offensive coordinator.
44:09 How can they possibly still go forward with that plan?
44:13 Do you see the crafts pivoting to a complete reset?
44:15 I'm sure Bill O'Brien is a smart guy,
44:16 but you cannot have the worst offense I've ever seen."
44:19 That's a lot.
44:21 It's the worst offense Jordan's ever seen.
44:25 And keep your job.
44:26 I don't know if they'll still go with that plan.
44:29 I've said again, I think Mayo is the favorite,
44:34 but two and 15 is a whole lot different than five and 12.
44:38 And I have no idea how in the hell
44:39 they would get to five and 12 at this point,
44:41 going at Pittsburgh, home Kansas City,
44:43 at Denver, at Buffalo, home Jets.
44:45 So we're about to get there
44:47 and they might have to change their plans.
44:49 And I've said other places that you hear things
44:52 from people who are outside the buildings,
44:54 you don't give it as much weight.
44:54 I'm not writing this, I'm not reporting it,
44:56 but I share with the folks who take care
44:58 to listen on a podcast where I've just been talking
45:00 to myself for 43 minutes,
45:02 that they hear things are a little different
45:04 about Gerard this year,
45:05 which the line of demarcation there
45:08 is him getting a new contract,
45:10 new responsibilities back in January.
45:12 Is it because of that?
45:14 Because of the season?
45:15 His relationship with Bill?
45:16 I don't know.
45:17 But there are just a few more questions, I think.
45:21 And part of it is the record.
45:23 Part of those things that I've heard
45:24 about him in the building.
45:25 What does it mean?
45:26 I don't know.
45:27 But the only thing that matters is what the Crafts think.
45:31 Because in the same way that those owners
45:33 I just told you about could get talked into Belichick,
45:35 dropping the rings and making that whole spiel.
45:38 If the Crafts can get talked into,
45:39 Mayo's the right guy for the job,
45:40 here's what I would do,
45:41 and they've been talking all year, that's it.
45:43 They make the hire, nobody else.
45:45 Aaron, I teased your question in the beginning,
45:49 since the Patriots stink,
45:50 am I legally allowed to look for another team?
45:52 I didn't watch Sunday, good for you,
45:55 everyone like, kidding,
45:57 to watch some good competitive games during December
45:59 asking for a friend.
46:00 It's a bummer, Aaron, that you asked this.
46:03 It's college football.
46:05 The regular season at least ended.
46:06 Because that would have been my number one suggestion,
46:09 is to pick a college football team.
46:11 A product that is worse from a performance standpoint.
46:15 But I think, in the same way college basketball is
46:17 versus the NBA, objectively more fun.
46:20 Like you have more players, more teams,
46:22 more playing styles, more drama,
46:24 more backstories, more everything,
46:26 the crowd, the student section, everything.
46:28 But of course, that's out the window,
46:29 we only have bowl games in the college football playoff.
46:31 So yes, Aaron, if you want to pick a new team,
46:34 it could be somewhere you've been,
46:36 it could be a friend's team,
46:37 just piggyback on for the last few games.
46:39 You don't have to give up on the Patriots
46:41 to pick another team,
46:42 you just like, make a little more time on Sundays,
46:44 that's it.
46:45 Hey, and more time for you at home,
46:46 watching football, eating snacks,
46:48 and having a beverage of your choice.
46:51 Cam, and we're closing in,
46:52 oh God, we still have one, two, three, five,
46:55 three, five, can you tell it's about time to end?
46:58 Five questions left.
47:00 Cam, do you see them winning another game this season?
47:01 Jets, question mark,
47:02 does Caleb Williams make the most sense for them?
47:05 A lot of questions in there.
47:06 First of all, I do.
47:08 It is the Jets, who,
47:10 I wrote this for Thanksgiving peace.
47:12 Seven reasons why you can still be thankful
47:15 as a Patriots fan in 2023.
47:16 And one of those reasons is you're not the Jets,
47:19 'cause their offense, believe it or not,
47:22 is the worst,
47:24 this is according to the Athletic,
47:25 Zach Rosenblatt, very good reporter for the Jets,
47:27 covering the Jets,
47:29 tweeted today, they have the worst offense
47:31 by EPA per play,
47:33 the last 30 years,
47:36 since 1990, over 30 years.
47:38 The worst offense in the NFL.
47:41 And that's because Zach Boyle, or Zach Boyle,
47:44 Tim Boyle, Zach Wilson,
47:47 and now apparently teammates want Zach Wilson
47:50 to take the job,
47:50 and Zach Wilson isn't sure if he wants it.
47:53 Imagine how bad that job has to be
47:55 to be paid that much to go play a game,
47:58 and you don't want to be that guy.
48:00 Just be thankful you're not the Jets.
48:01 Anyway, I think the Patriots, you beat them,
48:03 we are all going to do the Spider-Man meme thing,
48:05 everyone all week is going to be saying,
48:06 "Lose, lose, lose, lose, lose,"
48:07 and the Patriots don't.
48:09 But if they did,
48:10 and that is Belichick's last game as a Patriots coach,
48:13 whew!
48:16 Actually, I'll just go back and say
48:17 my earlier answer should have been,
48:18 "Yes, things can get ugly
48:19 "if it starts with the loss of the Jets."
48:22 Anyway, Emma asking, "Who do we start on Sunday?"
48:25 More we, that's what I'm talking about.
48:28 It's going to be Billy Zappi.
48:30 Again, argue for Malik Cunningham,
48:31 I think he should get some snaps.
48:32 I don't think he should be your franchise quarterback
48:34 or start the rest of the season.
48:36 You got to involve him.
48:36 Short week though, Pittsburgh,
48:38 it's going to be Billy Zappi.
48:40 Mac Jones, Tank Commander, he's back.
48:44 Are you on #TeamTank?
48:46 Or are you okay with him trying to win games
48:48 the rest of the season?
48:49 This could be a longer conversation,
48:51 but it's been a long episode.
48:53 I, A, believe you cannot tank in the NFL
48:59 in the way that you can with the NBA.
49:01 I am on the record advocating three years ago
49:03 the Patriots should tank.
49:05 And you play the younger players,
49:06 you sit the injured guys, the iffy guys,
49:08 tell them this is how it's going to go.
49:09 The locker room is too big,
49:10 there are too many guys with personal gain
49:13 and their futures on the line with tape
49:16 that will either get them a job next year
49:17 or a tryout or something that are going to go hard.
49:19 And they should, there are only 17 games, this is it.
49:22 But yes, it's in the best interest of the Patriots
49:25 to lose the rest of their games.
49:26 Absolutely, absolutely.
49:28 So I am not okay with telling guys like Devon Gacha
49:33 or Adrian Phillips or Trent Brown,
49:37 yeah, especially guys in Phrygian years,
49:39 to sit out because we could get this rookie quarterback
49:44 who may or may not work out in a year
49:45 and you're not going to be here,
49:46 but we need to get them so that we can play forward.
49:48 And all the fans rightfully so are like,
49:49 no, no, no, that's what we want, that's what we need.
49:51 And I would agree from a team standpoint.
49:53 But the people who need to carry out this tanking,
49:55 the players, it's not as easy
49:57 on a 12 person basketball team in the NBA
49:59 to say, nah, sit this one out.
50:00 Hey, Dame Lord, you know, go to Barbados.
50:03 Like just take April off, like that's not a big deal.
50:05 You cannot do that.
50:07 Players will not do that.
50:08 And so I think it's impossible to tank in the way
50:10 that everyone conceives of this,
50:12 that we've been exposed to in other sports.
50:14 But of course it's in the best interest
50:16 of the Patriots to lose.
50:17 They're just going to have to do it while trying to win.
50:20 Two more, George.
50:23 I think George is new.
50:25 I think he's new because he introduces himself
50:27 in the mail for that question.
50:28 Hi, I'm George and I'm a Patriots draft type sucker.
50:31 I bought into the hype.
50:32 What's the deal with Mapu?
50:33 I thought he was going to be the next Patrick Chung.
50:35 Now we can't stay on the field.
50:37 Terrible coverage in the crossing tight end yesterday.
50:39 My man George, watching this film.
50:40 Does he have an NFL future?
50:42 For the record, I can't say definitively
50:44 whether Marte Mapu blew that coverage
50:47 that resulted in a 26 yard game
50:48 for Gerald Everett in the first half.
50:50 But him and Kyle Duggar were in man to man
50:53 on the two tight ends in a twin set,
50:55 two receivers on the opposite side.
50:57 And it looked like Kyle Duggar was the force player
50:59 against the run.
51:00 So he was just going to take whatever route broke out.
51:03 He took that player.
51:04 So did Marte Mapu.
51:06 And that's why Gerald Everett went across the field
51:08 into wide open space and looked like he blew it.
51:10 Anyway, as far as Mapu, Belichick talked about this
51:13 this morning.
51:15 I think his answer was mostly honest about,
51:16 look, he's playing behind Julius Peppers, Kyle Duggar,
51:19 two of the better box safeties in the entire league.
51:22 That's his position.
51:23 I would counter and say, why isn't he bulking up
51:25 and playing more linebacker like Mack Wilson?
51:27 He's never going to play on the edge.
51:29 He's not that big.
51:30 But if he's a box safety, he's playing in the box
51:33 where the linebackers do, because that's where he's best.
51:36 And I don't think he's gotten enough reps.
51:39 We know he was in a non-contact jersey for most of the summer.
51:42 And so at this point, when you're just
51:45 feeding off of scraps and a few of them are rotten,
51:47 you're going to starve.
51:48 You're not going to be your best.
51:49 And that's what I think we've seen from Marte Mapu,
51:52 who has seven defensive snaps the last three weeks, only
51:54 three on Sunday, and only played one more
51:56 after this catch that you mentioned,
51:58 I just hopefully kind of explained.
51:59 So I think we'll see next year.
52:03 Kyle Duggar might be gone.
52:04 Who knows?
52:05 I'm not rooting for that.
52:06 Either way, but this is a player I said this summer.
52:09 He's played really well.
52:10 And we need to slow the hype train down, because I don't see
52:13 any playing time for him.
52:14 And when you blow it with those three snaps,
52:16 you're not going to get many more.
52:18 But I do genuinely believe, and I talked to Brian Belichick
52:21 about this last week when we had Zoom calls with the assistants,
52:24 they believe he's a really good player.
52:26 They think it's going to happen for him.
52:28 It doesn't mean they're right, but there's
52:30 belief still in there, even if the rest of us
52:32 have to wait to see it.
52:33 Last question.
52:35 God bless me.
52:36 Oh my god, I lied.
52:40 Lawrence, sneaking at the bottom.
52:41 Anyway, Matt, first, are there specific individuals
52:43 in the front office who are responsible for evaluating
52:46 talent on the offensive side of the ball,
52:48 or is it ultimately Macro?
52:50 Macro doesn't have the final say,
52:51 but he's making the final pitch to Belichick,
52:53 who does have the final say.
52:54 The way the front office is built,
52:56 you have the lowest leveler scouting assistants,
52:59 grunt guys come in, cut tape, make some scouting reports,
53:02 really assemble stuff for people above you,
53:05 including scouts, who typically live in different places
53:07 across the country.
53:09 They cover regions.
53:09 This goes for most NFL teams.
53:11 You have a West Coast scout, you have a Southeast scout,
53:13 you have a Midwest scout, you have a Northeast scout.
53:16 And so all of these guys are responsible for all
53:18 the players in their regions.
53:19 Now, you might have some that specialize
53:22 in certain positions, but you need
53:23 to know everybody because you're covering a territory, not
53:26 a position.
53:27 And so that goes up the food chain, too.
53:29 This is kind of the college side that I'm talking about.
53:32 Assistant College Scouting Director,
53:34 College Scouting Director, which is Cam Williams right now.
53:37 Matt Groh used to have that job.
53:38 On the pro side, it's Steve Cargile.
53:40 And so it's a collective failure.
53:44 But if you're going to pin blame on one person,
53:46 it's a guy who signs the free agents and drafts the rookies
53:50 and makes the trades.
53:51 And that's not Matt Groh.
53:53 It's Bill Belichick.
53:55 OK, Lawrence, you snuck in on me here at the end.
53:58 Wait, where is this?
53:59 Oh, Lawrence basically wants to know
54:01 if I'm ever going to blame Bill O'Brien with the lack
54:04 of talent, not being able to pick his staff.
54:06 How much blame do you put on him?
54:07 I put increasingly more every single week.
54:09 And it's not in a way that I think Bill O'Brien has
54:13 many outs or many options here.
54:15 Like, how would you coach this offense?
54:17 Yeah, we just talked about this.
54:19 The worst receiving core in the league.
54:21 You have the worst quarterback's room,
54:23 when healthy, in the league.
54:25 This is already a tiny playbook.
54:27 What are you going to do?
54:28 I've advocated for running the ball
54:29 like you did at Buffalo a couple of years ago.
54:31 You can't do that every week.
54:33 Anyway, the quibbles I have with O'Brien
54:37 are going to be when you average 5 yards per carry from two
54:40 tight end personnel only running that 24% of the time
54:44 against the chargers, or not using more play action,
54:48 or not incorporating Lee Cunningham.
54:50 And maybe that was entirely Bill Belichick's call.
54:52 Maybe it was a combination.
54:53 I don't know.
54:54 So when you're the worst offense in the league,
54:57 and you're the offensive coordinator for that offense,
55:01 I don't think it's a fair side-by-side comparison
55:03 last year, given it's a harder schedule and worse talent.
55:05 But yeah, of course you're to blame.
55:07 And he's taken the blame.
55:08 So yeah, yell and scream all you want at Bill O'Brien.
55:11 I'm not going to stand in your way.
55:12 OK, if you want to listen to more,
55:14 I am going to stand in your way, because I need to get off.
55:16 But we are going to leave this here.
55:19 Patriots play Thursday against Pittsburgh.
55:21 We will not have a preview episode.
55:22 I don't even know what kind of episode we're going to have
55:24 next.
55:25 But if you do have a second, and you've hung around this long,
55:28 please find us, again, on Apple, Spotify.
55:31 Ratings and reviews really, really, really, really help.
55:34 And if anything, just think of this as a holiday gift to me
55:37 for maybe answering your mail-back questions,
55:39 because we need to keep growing.
55:40 We're going to hit the offseason soon.
55:42 We're going to have a ton more content,
55:43 like we had with Danny Kelly last week.
55:45 He's got in quarterbacks, talking for agents to sign,
55:47 maybe trades, the new head coach, the new GM,
55:49 all the stuff I'm hearing.
55:51 As we get closer to that stuff, it's going to stink.
55:53 It's going to be a slog.
55:54 We have five more games to go.
55:56 We should appreciate the football while it's here.
55:58 But in the process, if you can give back a little,
56:02 I promise to keep giving you these episodes, which somehow
56:05 was 54 minutes long, after one of the worst, most boring
56:08 games we've ever watched.
56:09 Because that's what we do here on "Paths to Interference,"
56:11 brought to you by FanDuel, the exclusive wagering
56:12 partner of the CLNS Media Network.
56:14 We are going to bring it every single week,
56:16 so long as there is Patriots football to talk about.
56:20 When that is, again, later this week.
56:22 I don't know, but you'll have to find out.
56:24 So thank you again.
56:25 Find us, Apple, Spotify, wherever you're listening,
56:28 YouTube, drop us a comment.
56:30 We would love nothing more.
56:31 Thank you, and we'll see you soon.
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