Jayson Tatum's Future + Has Jaylen Brown PEAKED For Celtics? | Ryan & Goodman Podcast - video Dailymotion

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Special guest host Jimmy Toscano joins the show alongside Gary Tanguay to discuss the biggest new in the NBA world. Jayson Tatum made some comments about the city of Boston that have Celtics fans' ears perked, Jaylen Brown has been struggling, and the Pacers have entered the conversation of the teams that may be able to take down the Celtics. Plus, Jimmy and Gary discuss what is going on with the Patriots and what to expect from them going foward. That, and much more!  03:10 - Tatum’s future in Boston 10:36 - Should the Celtics be worried about the Pacers? 19:58 - Thoughts on Jaylen Brown 31:05 - Are the Pats tanking? 40:20 - Country music 43:55 - Jimmy’s first memory of Gary  This episode of the Bob Ryan & Jeff Goodman Podcast is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, the exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Network. Right now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! So, visit https://FanDuel.com/BOSTON and kick off the NFL season. FanDuel, Official Partner of the NFL. 21+ and present in MA. Hope is here. First online real money wager only. $5 pregame moneyline wager required. First online real money wager only. $10 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non-withdrawable bonus bets that expire 7 days after receipt. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. GamblingHelpLineMa.org or call (800)-327-5050 for 24/7 support. Play it smart from the start! GameSenseMA.com or call 1-800-GAM-1234.    ODDS-R! Ever wished you could navigate the betting field with the confidence of a pro? Enter OddsR. They're not a sportsbook, but they're the sports betting advisor you've always needed. It's like having a playbook for smarter bets right in your pocket. Especially since CLNS Media listeners get a 30-day free trial! Elevate your game day and join the smart betting revolution! Go get it at https://oddsr.com/bobjeff    Visit https://factormeals.com/NEWSFEED50 to get 50% off your first box! Factor is America’s #1 Ready-To-Eat Meal Kit, can help you fuel up fast with ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door.

Transcript

00:00 [MUSIC]

00:10 >> You know, this is one of the proudest moments I've ever had in my

00:26 illustrious career. Not only have I been able to work with the greats like

00:31 Trenny Kuznarek, Trenny Casey, Donnie Marshall, Tommy Heintz, Mike Gordon.

00:36 >> Donnie, yeah.

00:38 >> You know, just a list.

00:40 >> I idolized him.

00:40 >> A plethora of legends, then. To be graced with the presence of one Jimmy

00:46 Toscano, I'll give you a little background. Jimmy Toscano, also known as

00:50 Jimmy Canada.

00:50 >> Yes.

00:51 >> Came to us at a Comcast Sportsnet as just, well, I would say like a wide-eyed

00:56 >> Bushy-tailed.

00:59 >> Experience, but that wouldn't be true. No, Jimmy came in as a wise-ass,

01:04 know-it-all, who we all well came to adore after a lot of patience.

01:09 >> Adore is one word, yeah.

01:11 >> And it is great to have him back again here. He's filling in for the great

01:15 Bob Ryan, who's on assignment. So big shoes to fill.

01:20 >> Words I never thought I would hear.

01:22 >> You and me both.

01:24 >> Can I say this real quick, Gary, and thank you for that kind intro. I got a

01:28 text last week. My phone buzzes, Gary Tangway. It's like, Jimmy, Gary Tangway

01:34 here. Wonder if you can fill in for Bob Ryan.

01:36 >> Why does everybody have to do that voice? I mean, everywhere, everywhere.

01:41 >> I can't read a text from you without it being in your voice, and it's only

01:44 you. Everyone else, I'm just reading it on my own, but for you, it's in your

01:48 voice.

01:48 >> But if you had told, like, 15-year-old Jimmy Toscano that he was going to

01:52 one day get a text from Gary Tangway asking him to fill in for Bob Ryan, I

01:57 think my head would have popped off in that moment. So I greatly appreciate it.

02:02 I am honored, actually, to kick it with you for a bit. And I miss you, man. I

02:07 miss a lot of the people over there. Those were the glory days. I don't know

02:11 if-

02:12 >> We had a good time.

02:13 >> Yeah, I don't know if they'll ever get back to that, you know?

02:15 >> We had a good time over there at Comcast Sports Center, NBC Sports Boston.

02:18 But we move on.

02:20 >> We do.

02:21 >> But Jimmy is one of the good ones. And we are sponsored by FanDuel, the

02:24 exclusive wagering partner of the CLNS Media Networks. Score this NFL season

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02:38 wins. All right, Jimmy, getting to work here.

02:41 >> Real quick, Gary, real quick, before we get serious. I don't think we ever

02:44 will get serious, but before we start, I'm just telling everybody on our

02:48 podcast, it's the easiest bet of your life. You just bet a Moneyline on

02:54 whoever the Patriots are playing that week. Because you're guaranteed to get

02:59 that bonus bet if you do that.

03:00 >> Oh, that's so true. By the way, we may kick it with a little Patriots at

03:04 the end, because I have a-

03:05 >> Oh, we will.

03:05 >> I have a theory. Anyways, but the latest news, Jason Tatum came out on

03:11 the Point Forward podcast with Andre Iguodala and Evan Turner. Evan Turner,

03:16 a former teammate of Tatum, of course, played with the Celtics.

03:19 >> Great guy.

03:20 >> Yes, very good guy. Tatum said, "I did not understand how special the

03:25 place Boston was until I got here." And it's just really good to hear, because

03:30 listen, Boston's not easy. I understand it. It has its warts, just like a lot

03:36 of other cities, Philadelphia, New York, Washington, D.C. We all have our

03:40 warts, believe me. But I think that Boston has really embraced Tatum, and I'm

03:45 glad he feels the same way.

03:47 >> Very glad. The last few years, I feel like we've all collectively, Celtics

03:53 fans, Bostonians, have been waiting for him to say stuff like that. And you

04:00 want to feel, as tough as Boston is, we're very simple in the sense where if

04:06 you love us, we're going to love the hell out of you, right? If you play hard,

04:10 we're going to love you. If you embrace the culture, we're going to love you.

04:13 And so I feel like in the beginning, it's a lot harder for these young guys to

04:18 come in here when they're not familiar with the city, maybe they're from out

04:20 West or wherever.

04:21 >> Sure, and it has a reputation over the years.

04:24 >> Sure.

04:24 >> And quite honestly, some of it deserves.

04:27 >> Sure, but to hear him admit that it took him for a little bit, but he gets

04:34 it and he's embracing it. And he understands that by putting in the work,

04:39 by winning a championship, that's all that matters, right, in the end. And it

04:43 was refreshing to hear that. You want to feel like these guys are playing for

04:48 you and playing for the city. And I think, at least with Tatum, we're at that

04:52 point now where he gets it, he shows up, he knows that on any given night, he

04:57 has to bring it. There's really no days off. You get to a certain point in

05:04 status, superstar status, where you just got to show up game in game out because

05:09 there's a lot of people counting on you.

05:10 >> Right, but I see him doing it in many ways. This year, I see a difference. I

05:15 see a leader. I see a player that's willing to fill in where he's needed,

05:19 whether it's rebounding or assists. And I also think he has a better team around

05:23 him. I think he has guys that he can depend on. I mean, obviously Porzingis is

05:26 big. White has stepped up his game.

05:30 >> Unreal.

05:30 >> Holiday will get into him in a minute. He's still finding his way. But, and so

05:36 Tatum, to me, he looks, it's all coming together for Tatum in my eyes as the

05:44 complete package. The leader, the on the court leader, the guy that has, is not

05:53 just looking for his shot, the guy that is playing better defense, distributing

05:57 the ball, running the plays, making other players better, looking to rebound,

06:01 assist and so forth. To me, he's the complete player this year. And I think

06:06 that that's why the city has embraced him so much and why he feels the love.

06:09 >> I think that, yeah, he's playing a much more complete game. You know, the

06:14 first few years in the league, you knew that the talent was there.

06:17 >> Right.

06:18 >> But it felt like it was like hard work for him to like score. It felt like

06:23 everything was work. Getting to the basket was a lot harder. He wasn't going

06:27 to the line as much. He wasn't looking to go to the line. He was settling for

06:30 those contested fadeaway jumpers. He had almost like a slow release. Everybody

06:36 knew when he was going up with a shot. Now you'll see a lot more, at least I've

06:41 noticed a lot more. He's slicing and dicing his way to the hoop. Almost kind

06:44 of reminds me of Pierce a little bit, right? And that's been the comparison

06:48 that we've, you know, I don't know if it's how accurate it is, but I see it a

06:51 lot more now. Pierce was so good at getting to the line and driving to the

06:56 hoop, getting contact and finishing. And now it almost feels like Tatum's got all

07:02 these different post moves that he, I don't know if it was just like a point of

07:06 emphasis in the off season, whether it went along with him bulking up a bit,

07:10 he's gotten stronger. And obviously the maturity, you know, I mean, you come

07:13 into the league at 19, jumped onto a team that had, you know, basically had

07:18 championship aspirations when he came into the league, which is tough when

07:20 you're a young guy, a lot of these young guys that are, that are destined for

07:24 greatness. They jump on teams in the beginning that are bad because they're

07:28 top picks Celtics, you know, Danny Ainge finished with his way up there and ended

07:32 up with him. So he's at a point now in his career where he's been through the

07:37 ups and downs of, you know, being right there, being really close to win a

07:41 championship and then being thoroughly disappointed. They've been, he's been

07:44 on teams where they've underachieved, he's been criticized and he hears it.

07:48 And now I think he's at the point where he can sort of bottle all that up and

07:51 use it to his advantage. And I think that's kind of what we're seeing now.

07:54 Well, I've had been worried despite the fact that he could make more money here

07:59 with the super max and the super duper triple double extra wide max to Jalen

08:04 Brown. Don't ask me to make sense of that. I mean, you know, I mean, I look

08:08 at the money that Jalen Brown got in good for Jalen, but then I go, wow, you

08:12 know, you know, would Tatum ever leave to go to Los Angeles because we know he

08:16 loves the Lakers and grew up loving Colby. Would he ever go to the West

08:20 Coast? Once his deal was up and take less money and probably not because

08:26 that's a lot of dough that's tough to turn down. But now after he's made these

08:31 statements, Jimmy, I feel the guy's invested not only financially, but

08:35 emotionally as well.

08:36 Yeah. I mean, who knows 10 years from now, but I think I wouldn't know, but

08:41 I mean, he had two or three or whenever the deals are right. So that's what I

08:44 mean. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's not going well here. I want to go play with

08:48 Kobe play. Well, you're going to make less money. Well, so what LeBron took

08:51 less money to go to Miami, but now I don't think he's a flight risk. I always

08:55 worried a little bit that he was. That's what I mean. So like we can't project

08:59 10 years from now, but I think right now we can we can say with pretty good

09:03 confidence that he wants to be here. It would be completely foolish to, you

09:07 know, take anything less than the absolute most that you can make. He's in

09:11 a great situation and and you know, he's got guys around him now that let's be

09:17 honest. These guys should win a championship with this course.

09:20 You should I agree. I mean, they have as good a chance in the next couple

09:23 years as anybody. Yeah, I don't think it's a huge, huge window with this

09:27 court because I do think they're going to have some financial hoops to jump

09:30 through whether it's holiday Porzingis Brown. I mean the Brown contract is

09:35 we can do a whole separate podcast on that someday. We'll get John's

09:39 Janice on for that one. I'm gonna be a lot of fun. But the but the point is

09:43 yeah, Tatum is going to take that max extension and he's going to be here for

09:48 quite some time. They're going to build around him. They have to do everything

09:51 they can. They have to give they have to give him the honest treatment at some

09:54 point then they will, you know, where they pretty much have to do whatever

09:56 they can to keep the guy here, right? So but listen in that same interview that

10:02 podcast interview that came out Gary. They asked him like who his favorite

10:06 players are or who the best players are of all time and I think he listed five

10:10 five Lakers. He listed Magic Kareem Kobe Shaq, you know, maybe it was just

10:16 four but point is he obviously has right, you know, a fandom to the Lakers

10:22 and and to Kobe and you know, all that stuff. So but listen right now, all

10:28 things are good in Celtics land with Tatum and I think we just have to ride

10:33 that wave as long as we can. Okay. So now let's get to I want to get to the

10:38 Indiana game. Yeah, the Celtics were bounced. I've had conversations with

10:43 Mr. Goodwin and Mr. Ryan and I keep saying look should we be worried about

10:47 the Pacers at all then? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, and I know

10:52 it's the in-season tournament, but boy, I got to tell you and I had some

10:57 second-guessing of Joe, you know, Missoula and the way he handled the

11:01 substitutions in that game, but I got to tell you the Pacers really laid the

11:05 wood to the Celtics that night and I think that I don't think they're better

11:10 than the Celtics and they're obviously not in the same class as Milwaukee.

11:14 Bob Ryan thinks Philadelphia and Boston, but the Pacers worry me. They worry

11:20 me you completely fair. I mean, yeah, they worry me in the sense where okay,

11:27 like if you want to stack up talent versus talent. No, they're not as

11:30 talented and in the NBA in most cases talent wins out, especially in a series

11:37 right, but Gary, let's not let's not forget when the Celtics.

11:40 Lost in the playoffs previous years. They lost to a less talented team.

11:45 Yeah, Miami in the heat and I think there's some similarities because

11:49 Miami plays hard and the pace the Pacers.

11:52 They need they're going to need to play hard. They're going to need to play

11:56 a little bit more physical. They're a team that wants to run up and down

11:59 the court and maximize their offensive output. I obviously get that but

12:04 they need to bang a little bit more down low and if they play with that

12:07 like tenacity and determination that we saw against the Celtics, they worry

12:12 me because they're the type of team that could push you to seven games.

12:15 If you're, you know, if Celtics don't bring it then yeah, they'll get all

12:19 worked. I mean and the thing that the Pacers have now that they didn't

12:22 have before is the confidence. They've now they've seen it.

12:25 Well, now they believe now they believe it.

12:27 Yeah, I got a guy. I mean it's I really Halliburton so much fun to watch.

12:30 He's not real. It's a fun game.

12:32 I was a little upset as a Celtic fan with the Celts lost but that was a

12:35 such a fun game to watch great game. And you know what the whole thing was

12:39 the Pacers, you know, they obviously don't have well, they didn't have

12:42 the star talent now they do with Halliburton, but they don't they don't

12:45 get the national recognition.

12:46 So the one thing that this in-season tournament does is it puts a team

12:49 like the Pacers in the spotlight.

12:51 Now they're going to Vegas.

12:52 Now they're getting a taste of big game atmosphere elimination style game.

12:57 So when the playoffs do come around and the Pacers do make the playoffs

13:00 because it seems like they're going to as a let's say they make it as a

13:03 six seven or eight seed.

13:04 They're not showing up like, you know, Jimmy Toscano did back at CSN

13:08 wide-eyed and and and and completely unaware of what he's getting himself

13:11 into they have some experience.

13:13 So I think that's a reason to be I wouldn't say scared but I would be

13:17 my antennas are up.

13:18 Let's put it that way.

13:19 I think it was like it was like when the Celtics lost to the to the

13:22 Timberwolves earlier this year.

13:24 You're like, holy crap.

13:24 This Timberwolves team is awesome.

13:27 Right now.

13:27 Look at them there.

13:28 They got the best record in the West.

13:29 So you got to do you got to trust your eyes Gary and you can't deny that

13:34 what you saw a couple, you know earlier in the week against the Pacers

13:38 was a team that is starting to figure it out whether it's Halliburton

13:42 whether it's our old friend there.

13:43 Blanking on his name.

13:46 He'd Celtics traded.

13:47 Oh, yeah.

13:49 Yeah, they drafted him.

13:51 It's like I just I just blanked to thanks Jimmy.

13:54 You jinx us.

13:55 But yeah, everybody knows who we're talking about.

13:57 Yeah, everybody knows everybody knows who we're going to have to look

14:00 at looking up because I know it got me.

14:03 Everyone just pause for station identification here.

14:07 Well, that's okay.

14:08 We can we can be Smith Aaron Eastman.

14:10 Yeah, Aaron Eastman.

14:11 Yes, but not only is he was ready to play.

14:15 Absolutely, buddy healed.

14:17 How about this Gary?

14:18 How about buddy healed shooting that three-pointer at the buzzer when

14:22 they think when the game was already over buddy healed shoots the

14:25 the garbage type of buzzer.

14:26 I love that and I know that you know, some fans might might seem

14:30 butthurt about it because it was one of those sort of like cheap

14:33 shots that they didn't need to take but that to me is that's the

14:37 mentality that you want to have and I don't I'm going to go off a

14:41 little bit of a tangent here.

14:42 If you don't mind go ahead knock yourself out last week Celtics

14:46 play the Bulls in the in-season tournament.

14:47 They blow them out of the water, right?

14:49 They win by whatever is 20 something and after the game, you've

14:53 got Jalen Brown crying about you about it.

14:56 You got true holiday crying about it.

14:58 And then on the podcast that I just went on he was crying about

15:01 it. These guys are upset that they have to run up to score and

15:03 they feel it's against the you know, it's against the code and

15:07 the you know, players like players and all this stuff.

15:09 Listen, I understand.

15:11 I understand what they're saying, but this tournament calls for

15:16 that style of play.

15:17 It calls for a point differential.

15:20 It's not disrespectful.

15:22 Go in there with the killer mentality.

15:24 I love what Paul Pierce.

15:25 I'm summarizing but Paul Pierce said that if this in-season

15:28 tournament was around when they were playing back in 08, they

15:32 would have been blowing teams out of the water by 50 if they

15:34 if that's what it took to walk away with the 500,000.

15:37 So please like this like come off this like sort of high horse

15:41 situation that this you need to go in there be an asshole play

15:46 more like assholes Gary that that's my wish for this team is

15:50 be the jerk.

15:52 I loved Missoula what Missoula did he did what he had to do.

15:55 He played hack a drum and he he ran up to score and if the

15:59 Bulls don't like it.

16:00 Then do something about it.

16:02 Well, take it up with Adam Silver.

16:04 Yeah, take first of all, take it up with Adam Silver, but maybe

16:07 put maybe put a better team out there.

16:08 Maybe play harder do something don't write don't count on the

16:11 other team to take it easy on you not in the tournament.

16:13 Okay, and so I that's actually what one of the things I liked

16:17 about the tournament was that it kind of did allow for a little

16:21 bit of a ruthlessness in it.

16:23 So it made the regular season games more interesting and that

16:25 was the goal then it succeeded.

16:27 But if you're the Celtics.

16:29 Be pumped that you just blew a team out of the water and did

16:33 what you had to do to advance and go in with that attitude

16:36 against the Pacers.

16:37 Maybe if you did you wouldn't collapse in the second in the

16:40 second half.

16:41 Maybe if you knew that you needed to win by 25 points, maybe

16:45 you wouldn't have blown a seven point lead at halftime because

16:47 you would have been focused on blowing a team out of the water.

16:50 So I think there's a mentality check that this team needs to

16:54 have in order to go to the promised land where they want to

16:58 be you need to be killers all the time.

17:00 It's a good point because the concern when Marcus Smart left

17:04 was would they have that killer edge?

17:06 Yeah, and I said I thought they would but based on what we saw

17:12 in that Pacer game the Pacers wanted it more.

17:14 So I do think that the Celtics.

17:18 Need to they need to sharpen their edges.

17:21 If you will, I think they can have it but they also have to

17:24 be aware in that third quarter as we know the Celtics in the

17:27 third quarter one of the worst teams in the league, right?

17:29 So what I saw in that pace game and I wonder about the

17:32 substitution pattern.

17:33 I think sometimes and I thought Brad did this too.

17:36 Sometimes I think Brad and Joe leave Tatum on the bench too

17:38 long and I thought that that was the case of the Pacers.

17:41 I'm like, where's Tatum is Tatum hurt?

17:43 What did he get hurt?

17:44 And did I miss you know, Abby's report?

17:46 What's going on?

17:46 Where is he?

17:47 How come he's not out here?

17:48 Come on guys.

17:49 Let's go there.

17:50 We got to get Tatum back in the game.

17:52 I think they're too set in that fourth quarter rotation and

17:56 resting their guys in the third quarter sometimes and it can

17:59 come back to come back to bite him.

18:01 I think Joe does sometimes get caught up in letting the game

18:04 play itself out too much and he wants the players to figure

18:07 it out whether it's keeping guys in or keeping lineups in

18:11 for a little bit too long or not calling that time out to

18:14 stop, you know, in game run, which I think is driven a lot

18:18 of fans mad over the last couple seasons.

18:21 I think he does need to maybe be a little bit more aware of

18:24 situation in the in the search.

18:26 They don't want to they don't listen.

18:27 They don't want Tatum averaging, you know, 35 minutes or

18:31 whatever it is.

18:32 They don't want him averaging.

18:33 I understand that, you know, 40 minutes a game here, but

18:36 they also I think are hoping and hasn't happened yet.

18:43 Jalen Brown should be able to should be able to lead a unit

18:46 and what we're seeing so far based on the analytics is that

18:50 he hasn't been able to their their offensive output drops

18:54 significantly when it's, you know, Tatum in the second unit.

18:58 I mean, sorry when it's Brown in the second unit.

19:00 So that's something that they're going to need to figure out

19:03 how to address and maybe when Porzingis comes back that fixes

19:05 itself, right?

19:06 And maybe when holiday, you know, if he's banged up a little

19:10 bit, maybe that fixes itself.

19:11 But right now it's like what it's like Tatum needs to be in

19:15 there to save the day or you have situations like you had

19:18 against Indiana.

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19:55 Okay, you hit on a lot of buttons.

20:00 Let's start with Jalen Brown.

20:01 Jalen Brown to me.

20:04 Has peaked early.

20:07 I thought we started to see a big advancement with him a

20:10 couple of seasons ago.

20:11 He was doing well in the playoffs.

20:13 His regular seasons were okay, but in the postseason he was

20:16 stepping up.

20:17 He hasn't become a better ball handler.

20:19 I think he's a streaky shooter.

20:22 He seems to do well at the beginning of games as opposed

20:25 to the end of games.

20:26 And I don't know if because of this contract, he has stopped

20:30 working on his game.

20:31 I'm not so shallow that I sit there and say he's a 300 million

20:36 dollar player.

20:37 He should be playing like it.

20:39 The economics are what they are, you know, I mean, there was

20:42 a time when, oh, who's the guy, the point guard from Memphis,

20:46 Mike.

20:47 Conley.

20:48 What's that?

20:50 Mike Conley.

20:51 Yeah, Mike Conley was like for like a month.

20:53 He was the highest played player in the NBA, right?

20:55 I mean, you know, it's just the way it works, you know, Jalen

20:58 Brown is not worth that money.

21:01 It's laddering.

21:02 Yes, but they had to pay him.

21:05 I think unfortunately right now with Jalen, this is as good

21:08 as he's going to get.

21:09 And that's kind of concerning.

21:13 It's hard to call handling.

21:16 He's got to get better, dude.

21:18 Yeah, and it's not and that's just working at it.

21:21 You try to compartmentalize, right?

21:23 Like to put the money aside and like what kind of player is

21:26 he?

21:26 It's hard to do that because he's taking up a ton of your

21:29 cap, obviously, and he's somebody that if he doesn't play

21:35 close to what he's what he's getting paid, it's going to

21:39 be hard to use him as an asset at someday if they feel like

21:43 they need to and what you know, right?

21:44 Right.

21:44 So now I'll say this about you in the background.

21:47 I think he works hard.

21:48 I don't have any reason to believe that he's not putting

21:51 in the work whether it's in the offseason or in practice

21:53 or whatever.

21:53 I think he is who he is though.

21:56 He is one of one of the best scores in the NBA.

22:01 He can be one of the best finishers in the NBA.

22:04 He's not one of the best shooters, but he's an athletic

22:07 specimen.

22:08 He can score in multifaceted ways, but that's really what

22:13 it is.

22:13 So if he's on a team where his only role is to score and

22:17 he does that then you take that but when he's put in situations

22:20 where now he has to be a playmaker right point Jalen point

22:24 Tatum all these points.

22:25 They want to make everybody he's not going to thrive there.

22:28 He's not a great ball handler.

22:29 He's not going to become one and sometimes his decision-making

22:32 is off.

22:32 So that's when the turnover start to creep up.

22:34 The assist to turnover ratio is probably not even close to

22:37 where you want it to be.

22:38 We've seen the stats where you know, he's gone, you know,

22:42 I don't know.

22:43 He'll go multiple games for example without an assist like

22:46 currently currently speaking right now.

22:47 So those are definitely flaws in his game.

22:51 And these are all the flaws that the Celtics knew when they

22:54 agreed to give him that contract.

22:56 And again, they were kind of stuck.

22:57 We all agree that they were kind of stuck there.

22:59 This is the guy they have and he needs.

23:02 Porzingis, he needs holiday and white and he needs Tatum and

23:06 then he can become the guy that he's good at being which is

23:10 score.

23:11 Well, you're right.

23:12 He's not the number.

23:13 He'll never be a number one.

23:15 I'll never be a number one on a team.

23:16 That's going anywhere.

23:17 Let's put it that way.

23:18 No, like like if you're going to put if you say if Tatum's

23:22 out you go, we got to shut Brown down.

23:23 You can.

23:24 Yeah.

23:27 Oh, definitely.

23:27 Yeah, and that's just you could just if you if you doubled

23:30 him, I don't know how to get out of it.

23:32 Yeah, you know, so to me when I look at it now, I look at Tatum

23:36 as the best player.

23:37 I think Derek White's the second best player.

23:40 I think Porzingis is the third and then you have Jalen Brown.

23:43 I think a lot of people.

23:45 Yeah, I think a lot of people would agree with that.

23:47 I mean white white we've seen just how good he can be.

23:52 He's just an unbelievable two-way player.

23:53 Heady player had a tough one against Indiana though.

23:56 I think he was he got a really bad game there.

23:59 I'm not sure what's up with that.

24:00 But generally speaking, he's been there.

24:04 He's been there MVP this year, you know, I mean obviously Tatum

24:07 Tatum just got player of the month.

24:08 So we get it but I think where Derek White was traded to the

24:12 Celtics.

24:13 I know I was like this guy stinks because he did he had a

24:17 really bad finish to that season and everyone kept saying he's

24:21 awesome.

24:21 He's awesome.

24:22 I was like, well, I haven't seen it last year was a different

24:25 story.

24:26 He really came on especially in the second half and he's just

24:28 continued to go on this trajectory upwards where yeah, I

24:32 mean, it's hard.

24:32 It's hard to argue that Browns.

24:35 Brown certainly not playing better than him right now.

24:39 We can definitely say that but how do you think Browns doing

24:43 defensively average?

24:45 I mean, he's so athletic a lockdown Defender exactly.

24:49 He's so gifted and athletic and you just see him when he's on

24:55 offense.

24:55 He can he can do whatever he wants.

24:56 He can get by anybody.

24:57 He can he can throw down like the nastiest dunks in the game

25:01 and you would think that he would be more of I'm not going

25:04 to say lockdown but so much of defense is effort and smarts,

25:10 right?

25:10 And me last year.

25:11 He said give me Dwayne Wade take him away from Marcus.

25:15 Give me Dwayne Wade.

25:16 He should have that attitude every Jimmy Butler Jimmy Butler.

25:19 I meant Jimmy Butler.

25:20 Yeah.

25:21 Yeah.

25:21 There's no way.

25:22 He should have that attitude every night and then yeah, then

25:27 he's worth it.

25:28 You should take pride in that and a lot of guys in the league

25:30 not just point not just Jayna Brown, but a lot of guys don't

25:32 take pride in defense anymore.

25:34 This League's points towards offense.

25:36 They do everything they can to create offense now and just

25:40 even 10 years ago.

25:41 The difference in offensive output is just so much different

25:44 than it was now, but if they spent a little more time and

25:48 energy and effort and had some pride like Drew holiday, you

25:51 know, that's why I love the Drew holiday Sunday.

25:53 I was like, here's a guy that's going to lead by example on

25:56 the defensive end and he's still he's had a slow start offensively

26:00 to holiday has not to switch subjects here, but defensively

26:04 he's still taking on the opponents, you know, number one

26:07 guy.

26:08 He's still doing everything he can to lock down guys.

26:10 Hallie Burton got the best of them again.

26:12 He got the best of everybody earlier in the week, but yeah,

26:16 but I'm looking for more out of Jalen Brown.

26:19 I think we've seen a better defensive effort from Tatum,

26:22 although I still think he can be better too, but I'm looking

26:24 for more in the defensive end.

26:25 And again, if you're Jalen Brown, you should be looking

26:29 for more ways that you can contribute because there's so

26:32 much talent on this team offensively.

26:34 Now, they don't need Jalen Brown to score 30 and night anymore.

26:38 Right?

26:38 They do need him to play stronger defense.

26:41 They do need him to make the smart pass.

26:44 They do need him to not dribble into three defenders.

26:46 They need him to do all those things.

26:48 And if he does crazy and no one's going to complain about

26:50 you and I think I think Jalen, he should be first team all

26:54 defense every year.

26:55 Should yeah, he could be, you know, anyway, so I'm running

27:04 out of patience with holiday a little bit.

27:06 Are you?

27:07 Well, he seems to not be gelling quite enough yet.

27:12 Maybe I'm being I'm expecting too much too soon.

27:15 I think I think the expectations are obviously very high when

27:19 a guy of his caliber comes in.

27:21 He's won a championship.

27:22 He's put, you know, he's played alongside Giannis.

27:25 He's won awards for his defense, but he's not an offensive,

27:32 not really an offensive minded player.

27:34 And I think a lot of people maybe are unfamiliar or were

27:38 unfamiliar with his game.

27:40 Because let's be honest, we know the name we watch the games,

27:45 but we're not pouring over bucks highlights.

27:47 We're not watching them, you know, on a game-by-game basis.

27:51 If you're a regular NBA fan, and so you listen to you see the

27:55 highlights, you listen to the interviews and you and you

27:57 understand how much the players respect him.

27:59 And that's the one thing about holidays that when the players

28:03 are interviewed or surveyed, they all say that holidays is

28:07 the best, you know, on ball Defender in the NBA and I've seen

28:11 that so far with his Celtics team, but the shot hasn't been

28:14 there and I don't I don't know where he's going to land at

28:17 the end of the season with that shot.

28:19 I do think he's I do think he's battling a nagging ankle right

28:22 now. He looked at he looks a little bit slow.

28:25 Again, I go back to that Pacers game.

28:28 It looked like Halliburton kind of was able to shake him on

28:31 more than one occasion and he might just be half a step behind

28:34 in the NBA these days.

28:36 That's that's a half a step to wait way too late.

28:38 So I think it will come we don't need to see holiday averaging

28:44 20 points a night.

28:45 We don't we need to see him.

28:46 We need to see him getting up into Defenders and it Gary if

28:49 you remember the beginning of season when everybody was healthy

28:51 holiday and white in my opinion.

28:53 They were the best guard tandem in the NBA.

28:55 No questions asked as far as I'm concerned the way the two

29:00 best two-way guard tandem in the NBA.

29:03 So I still have high hopes for that unit for that backcourt

29:07 white and holiday.

29:08 I can guarantee you that when you know an NBA team is looking

29:13 at the schedule and they look at their week ahead and they

29:15 see who they're playing they see the Boston Celtics if it's

29:17 if it's a point guard and they see the Boston Celtics their

29:19 reaction is damn it because they do not want to be pressed.

29:24 They do not want to be checked and guarded 48 minutes basically

29:28 by either holiday and white so I still have high hopes for

29:31 holiday but to your point offensively he has he is definitely

29:36 not met the mark and so that's something to keep an eye on

29:39 definitely.

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31:02 Okay, Jimmy.

31:06 I let's switch gears a little bit to the Pats here.

31:10 I think they're tanking.

31:12 Don't get me.

31:13 You're going to get me going on the Pats Gary.

31:16 I think they're tanking.

31:17 Can you can you can you like explain what you mean by that?

31:21 Who's tanking specific?

31:22 I don't think they're going out of their way to win.

31:25 Yeah, so put it that way, you know, they get sappy out there.

31:29 They can't school.

31:30 You mean like the like would you say that the front office

31:33 is tanking the coaches are tanking?

31:34 Here's my concern is I think the coaching staff in the front

31:38 office. I think they're tanking and I think Bill in order to

31:42 save his job.

31:43 This is a tangling conspiracy theory.

31:45 Okay, I love it.

31:46 No, I'm all about you know, in order to save his job.

31:49 He wants to get the first a second pick.

31:52 Go to another quarterback because he cannot stand Mac

31:56 Jones.

31:56 I don't think Mac Joe.

31:57 We all know Mac Jones wasn't his guy.

31:59 That was Robert's guy.

32:00 Sure wants to get one of these top two quarterbacks and then

32:05 he can go to Robin and say now I can fix this team and maybe

32:09 get another year out of it.

32:11 Personally.

32:12 I don't think Bill O'Brien is this bad of an offensive

32:15 coordinator.

32:15 I mean, I mean, he's not he's just not, you know, I'm not

32:20 saying he's Charlie Weiss or or Josh with Brady, but as we've

32:26 all found out, you know, these offensive coordinators when

32:29 they have Tom Brady with them.

32:30 They're all pretty good, you know, yeah.

32:33 No, I'm not.

32:34 I don't know.

32:35 Look good as I was saying, yeah, but I don't want to get

32:37 on Bill O'Brien's ass.

32:38 I don't think he has anything to work with.

32:40 I don't think he has anything to work with.

32:42 I don't think he's he can't be as bad as he's been.

32:45 But if I'm Bill O'Brien, I don't know how much like how

32:47 many more chances I'm getting.

32:49 He's kind of been around.

32:50 He's been around the block here.

32:51 Now.

32:51 It's kind of like McDaniels.

32:52 It's like these guys, you know, you can go down the line

32:55 with with former, you know, assistant under Belichick.

32:58 They just haven't been able to pan out.

32:59 I mean college might be next for some of these guys, but

33:03 I don't think players tank Gary.

33:05 I just think they're honestly, they just all suck and just

33:08 to be quite frank with it.

33:09 There's no talent on this roster.

33:11 Yeah, but I don't think about this Gary.

33:13 The Patriots are not going to go out of their way to win.

33:16 That's my like tanking.

33:19 Like do I say I think they're that they're actually going

33:22 out and saying I'm telling the players to lose but no, they're

33:25 kind of letting things play out and they're okay losing

33:28 six nothing.

33:28 I think I think the winning culture is definitely gone

33:31 in that locker room.

33:32 You know, so like that definitely plays a part of it.

33:35 I think out of the 52 guys on the active roster or 53 minute

33:41 whatever it is now.

33:42 I think there's probably 50 guys that you could lose and

33:46 and and you the team wouldn't be any worse for it.

33:50 And like that's how replaceable all these players are.

33:53 I mean offense forget it everybody on offense.

33:55 See you later.

33:55 I mean, they're only good guy was Stevenson and he just now

33:58 he's out for a few weeks.

33:59 They just don't they don't have the weapons.

34:02 The old line is weak.

34:04 They're running backs.

34:05 Everyone thinks they're running, you know, like I said,

34:07 Stevenson and that was it but running backs are diamond

34:09 dozen and Mac Jones.

34:10 We won't see him next year.

34:11 I don't think maybe maybe maybe as the as the backup but

34:15 he's not going to start next year to your they do need a

34:19 topic one two or three.

34:20 Honestly, Gary.

34:21 I want them to take Marvin Harrison jr.

34:24 Get the wide receiver from Ohio State.

34:27 You need you need talent at the wide receiver position

34:32 regardless of the fact if you can get a quarterback.

34:35 Okay.

34:36 I don't know if if there's even a quarterback in this year's

34:39 I don't think you're going to get one.

34:41 I think Carolina is too bad.

34:42 So you're stuck with Drake may as the option as like the

34:45 number three pick.

34:45 I don't know if that's the if that's the answer they could

34:48 go Marvin Harrison in the first round and then take a flyer

34:51 on a guy and in a later round, maybe they could go the free

34:55 agency route.

34:55 I will never understand.

34:57 This is this is a completely different topic.

34:58 I'll never understand how Bill and craft handled that Brady

35:02 situation.

35:02 They let Brady walk.

35:03 They force Brady out Brady didn't it's a it's such a long

35:07 story, but Brady didn't just decide one day.

35:09 I'm out.

35:10 This was this was long time in the making.

35:12 They basically forced Brady out.

35:13 They had no plan B Gary.

35:15 They had no plan B and they still have no plan B to this

35:19 day four years later.

35:21 They're worse off now than they were before.

35:23 So to me, it's unacceptable.

35:24 I'll say this.

35:25 There's been some people calling for for Belichick to be

35:28 fired in season.

35:28 I disagree with that and I am and I have been the biggest

35:32 Bill critic for the last few years, not just this year, but

35:35 I do think he deserves a lot more than getting canned in

35:39 the middle of season.

35:39 I don't think it does anything for your team to do to do

35:42 that either.

35:43 I think you figure out whether or not he's going to be back

35:46 next year in the offseason.

35:47 You sit down crafts is down with Bill.

35:48 They go over the ground rules.

35:50 Here's what here's what your you know, we're going to allow

35:52 you to be able to do.

35:53 Here's the money that we're going to allow you to spend.

35:55 Here's the players that we want and that we want you to be

35:57 in charge of and then they make a decision they go from

35:59 there and they word it however they want but just say yeah,

36:02 I get to just say oh bill you're out, you know after week

36:04 14 or whatever it is like that doesn't sit right.

36:07 I don't think that's that's a good I don't think that's

36:10 it's a good like message to like what the Patriots organization

36:15 is all about after everything Belichick did and again, he's

36:18 really screwed this thing up and that is going to be part

36:20 of his legacy.

36:21 If you want to talk about it how much he has screwed this

36:23 up, but I don't think if your craft and you've made some

36:27 blunders over the last few years, but this would be a big

36:29 one to fire him in the middle of the year.

36:30 I don't think that's going to happen at all.

36:31 I agree and I think it worked out for Brady in the long run

36:35 because oh, you know, it would have ended badly for him

36:39 where he got to go on a bowl.

36:41 Yeah.

36:42 I mean, well, it was a complete team.

36:43 He was at the point of his career where he needed he needed

36:46 a team to carry him, you know, as opposed to the other way

36:50 around.

36:50 He just needed something.

36:51 He needs something to work with.

36:52 The players.

36:53 Yeah, and they didn't have a year.

36:55 Still don't.

36:55 It's amazing to me after after all the money they had available

36:59 Gary to spend it for you to see a few years ago.

37:01 They've missed on everybody.

37:03 They have every single person they've missed on.

37:06 Well, one of the things unbelievable.

37:08 One of the points Jimmy that I've always chewed on they hit

37:11 on Jude on that was it.

37:12 Yeah, but one of the points I've always made and this may

37:15 have been back when you were in grade school worshiping

37:18 me is Charlie Army was picking the players for Bill Parcells.

37:24 All those players turned out to be for the most part the

37:28 Patriots defense that won the first Super Bowl McGinnis.

37:31 Yeah, I law will Troy Brown on offense.

37:34 Boy, Teddy Johnson.

37:38 Yeah, all those guys.

37:40 Brewski all those guys were not picked by Bill.

37:44 No, they were not picked by Belichick.

37:45 They were picked by Charlie Army and the Parcells crew.

37:48 Charlie Army went on to run the Rams with Kurt Warner.

37:52 What a Super Bowl than lost to the Patriots.

37:54 Obviously in the 0102 Super Bowl.

37:56 So Bill's never I mean.

37:59 He did it the second time around but that Foundation of

38:04 defensive players was already here and he really hasn't been

38:07 able to replicate it.

38:08 Now having said that I think it's time to blow it up.

38:12 Doesn't last forever.

38:13 It's already blown up.

38:14 Yeah, you bet you got it.

38:15 You got a clean house.

38:16 You got you got a clean house.

38:18 I'm gonna start over for it.

38:20 Yeah, you just got a clean house.

38:21 I like Bill O'Brien.

38:23 I think he's a good offensive coordinator.

38:24 He'll land on his feet or maybe you bring it back here.

38:27 I don't think he I'm not willing now the D and I love

38:31 Gerard Mayo to I don't know how good of a coach I Gerard

38:34 we were you at work when he was there.

38:36 Yeah, he's the best.

38:38 He's awesome.

38:38 Greatest guy ever.

38:40 I don't know how good of a coach he is because the players

38:42 suck.

38:44 Right?

38:44 I don't know if he's a good coach.

38:46 He doesn't really defense looks good.

38:48 And I know he has he has more to do with the defense.

38:50 I mean, you know, it doesn't but now those guys gonna run

38:53 the offense.

38:54 Yeah, you need a capable offense on this team and they

38:57 are so far away.

38:58 They're so far away.

39:00 I don't know.

39:01 I don't know what to do around there, but I know the coach

39:03 in Miami.

39:04 I know the coach in Houston.

39:05 I know there's a lot of coaches that are around the league

39:08 that are just making this group look silly.

39:10 So my God out there.

39:12 It's sad and it's not gonna.

39:13 It's not gonna change overnight.

39:15 They need to really work at it.

39:16 They need to start over man need to draft.

39:19 Well to which hasn't happened.

39:20 Gotta start over.

39:22 So time to rip off the scab and and honestly, it starts

39:28 it starts with Bella Bella check.

39:30 He's got to go.

39:31 He's yeah, it's at the point.

39:32 I've been I've been saying it for I've been anti Bella

39:35 chicks is the day Brady walked out the door.

39:37 I've been anti because I just thought that was the worst

39:39 thing that you could have done.

39:41 It was just like pride.

39:42 I don't pride got in the way man.

39:44 I guess it's going to be a really good documentary.

39:45 Yeah.

39:46 I mean he he just thought that Brady, you know, Bill's thing

39:50 was always get rid of a player a year too early than a year

39:53 too late and he thought that and but then when you look

39:56 at what he brought in, I mean, come on every guy he's brought

40:00 in has been a year too late at least as early as as early

40:06 most recently as this offseason Gary.

40:09 He lets Myers go and he signs Smith Schuster for the same

40:13 money Myers is having a great year in Oakland and Smith

40:16 Schuster can't even get on the field.

40:18 So what time it's time.

40:21 Yeah, I see me on a final note here.

40:24 I understand that you took a lovely young lady and you

40:29 went you saw Brett Eldridge.

40:31 I saw Brett Eldridge Tuesday night at the MGM Christmas

40:35 concert.

40:36 See people don't know the side of you.

40:38 You're a music man.

40:39 You're a romantic.

40:40 How do I have a strong romantic?

40:42 I was a great time.

40:43 Brett Eldridge makes it easy man.

40:45 He does like an hour and 15 of just Christmas music.

40:48 He's got like his own.

40:49 He's got a few originals, but he's plays all the hits.

40:52 They deck out the whole you know, the whole venue.

40:56 Oh the way right?

40:57 Just it was at the MGM the new one at Fenway now.

41:00 Oh the MGM.

41:00 Yeah.

41:01 So the sets all done.

41:02 We hit up a loco at Fenway.

41:04 There's a new new loco down there to Taco Mexican place

41:08 and that place is decked out in all Christmas gear.

41:10 So that was an easy one.

41:12 I was a made it easy for me, but it was a lot of fun.

41:15 And yeah, I'm a music man Gary.

41:17 You get a second date out of this with this.

41:19 We'll see.

41:20 I mean, I mean so far the numbers correct, right?

41:24 It's not a fake number.

41:25 That's a real no.

41:27 It was a real.

41:27 It's a real number.

41:28 Okay.

41:29 All right.

41:29 Fine.

41:29 Yeah.

41:30 Yeah.

41:31 I saw Brett Eldridge with Darius Rucker.

41:34 Oh wow.

41:35 That's a great one.

41:36 Yeah, that was a great time.

41:37 You're a country guy too then.

41:39 Okay.

41:39 Jimmy Jimmy.

41:42 I didn't know that about I know you're a country music guy.

41:46 Look at us.

41:46 We should go together next time.

41:47 I'll take you.

41:48 Let's not get crazy.

41:49 I when I was in college at the good old University of Maine,

41:54 I worked for a radio station as a disc jockey called WBGW

42:00 and you know what the BGW stood for?

42:02 I do not Bangor goes Western.

42:06 I was a country music disc jockey.

42:08 No kidding.

42:08 We were number one in the market and I used to MC my Fraternity

42:14 Brothers.

42:14 I used to bring them because they'd let us drink for free.

42:16 I used to MC at this place called the Roundup in Ellsworth,

42:19 Maine, right?

42:20 And I would introduce the acts like Billy Crash Craddock.

42:24 I met Reba McEntire.

42:28 I met Reba McEntire.

42:29 Before she was Reba McEntire, man.

42:30 Reba herself.

42:32 Yeah, the Bellamy brothers.

42:33 We had all of them there and then this place was so crazy.

42:35 I feel like you could croon Gary.

42:37 I feel like you could get up there.

42:38 I can't.

42:38 I'm tone deaf man.

42:39 I can't say.

42:40 So anyways, I do.

42:41 I love country music.

42:42 Country music now is basically pop.

42:44 I mean, it's very poppy now.

42:45 Yeah.

42:46 I mean, they got some great and everybody's mixing in, you

42:49 know, rap and pop and all that stuff.

42:51 So, but at the Roundup one night some guy came in because

42:57 his wife was with another man.

42:59 He went out and got his chainsaw.

43:01 Oh, no.

43:02 And he chainsaw.

43:03 He took apart the doors.

43:05 This is Bangor life right here.

43:07 Chainsaw the door to chase the guy.

43:07 And then the owner, Cooper Friend, great guy.

43:10 The next night he put up a big sign that said no chainsaws

43:13 allowed.

43:13 That's better.

43:16 That is a country Bangor story right there.

43:20 A lot of El Caminos in that parking lot, man.

43:23 A lot of El Caminos in that parking lot.

43:24 I bet.

43:25 Yeah, a car with a truck bed right there.

43:26 No, I'm definitely into the country scene, the pop scene.

43:30 I got to get you to a Jimmy Canada show, Jimmy Westfall

43:33 show.

43:34 That's my stage name, Westfall.

43:36 Do some pop.

43:37 What?

43:37 Jimmy Westfall?

43:38 Jimmy Westfall.

43:39 Yeah, that's my stage name.

43:40 I like it.

43:41 I got to get you to a show, man.

43:43 They're fun.

43:43 I got one coming up actually this Friday.

43:45 I don't expect to see you at that one, but we'll get

43:48 together for something.

43:48 How about that?

43:49 All right.

43:50 I'll see if I can get the missus to join us.

43:52 Yes.

43:53 I got one last request.

43:55 I got one last request for you.

43:56 Do you remember, obviously you remember this, but this

43:59 might be my first like memories of you, Gary.

44:01 Obviously a young buck here.

44:05 Me and my buddies watching Celtics on the old FSN, right?

44:09 Back in the glory days, you, Dickerson, Coach Willie May.

44:13 I don't know what he's up to these days, but I need Donnie,

44:18 Miss Donnie.

44:19 I don't even know what he's up to, but I have a request

44:22 and maybe you can pull some strings.

44:23 We need to get the Foxwoods commercial back from the glory

44:29 days. Pop the cork, finger snapping, spin the wheel, round

44:34 and round we go.

44:35 You remember that commercial?

44:37 Yes, I do.

44:38 I don't know why they got rid of that, Gary, but take a chance.

44:42 Make it happen.

44:44 Pop the cork, finger snapping, spin the wheel, round and round we go.

44:51 Life is good.

44:53 But, life is sweet.

44:56 Those were the days, Jimmy, but now you don't even have to

44:59 leave your house because you can just bet on a fan duel.

45:01 You can, you can.

45:02 That's a good point.

45:03 You know, but that was a great segue.

45:05 That was a great time.

45:07 Yeah, that was a great time.

45:08 I need that commercial back.

45:10 So do what you can.

45:11 I'll see what I can do.

45:12 All right.

45:12 So you're going to be in for Bob Ryan again next week.

45:15 Oh, wow.

45:16 I passed the test.

45:17 Oh my God.

45:18 Has Bob ever heard of Wally Pitt?

45:20 He might be in trouble.

45:21 He could be in trouble or maybe.

45:23 This might finally be it for Bob.

45:26 We might add a third podcast to the Tangway Stable.

45:28 We'll see how it goes.

45:29 Oh my God.

45:30 This was fun.

45:31 Thank you for having me.

45:32 Jimmy Toscano, in for Bob Ryan, brought to you by FanDuel, the

45:35 official wagering partner of the CLNS Media Networks.

45:37 Score this NFL season with FanDuel, America's number one

45:41 sports book.

45:42 Right now, new customers get $150 in bonus bets.

45:45 With any winning $5 Moneyline bet, that's $150 if your team wins.

45:49 See you again next week.

45:51 Can't wait.

45:54 [Music]

Jayson Tatum's Future + Has Jaylen Brown PEAKED For Celtics? | Ryan & Goodman Podcast

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