Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 27th December 2023 - video Dailymotion

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#shahmehmoodqureshi #pmln #PTI #election2024   ۔Rauf Klasra and Ather Kazmi speak up on Shah Mahmood Qureshi's arrest  ۔"Is mulk ko theek karna hai tou ap teen wazeer e azam bana len," Rauf Klasra's expert analysis  Follow the ARY News channel on WhatsApp: https://bit.ly/46e5HzY  Subscribe to our channel and press the bell icon for latest news updates: http://bit.ly/3e0SwKP  ARY News is a leading Pakistani news channel that promises to bring you factual and timely international stories and stories about Pakistan, sports, entertainment, and business, amid others.  Official Facebook: https://www.fb.com/arynewsasia  Official Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/arynewsofficial  Official Instagram: https://instagram.com/arynewstv  Website: https://arynews.tv  Watch ARY NEWS LIVE: http://live.arynews.tv    Listen Live: http://live.arynews.tv/audio  Listen Top of the hour Headlines, Bulletins & Programs: https://soundcloud.com/arynewsofficial #ARYNews  ARY News Official YouTube Channel. For more videos, subscribe to our channel and for suggestions please use the comment section.

Transcript

00:00 Assalamu Alaikum, dear viewers, Shah Mehmood Qureshi, a former minister of foreign affairs,

00:04 and the Vice Chairman of Pakistan Tariq-e-Insaf, has been arrested again today after his release.

00:10 This is an MPO-numbered case in Pakistan, a law that is being used again and again.

00:15 And if you want to put someone in jail, then the people are put in jail under MPO 3 to keep the situation under control.

00:28 We have seen this repeatedly in the past few days that if the court gives bail to someone in a case,

00:35 then sometimes under MPO, sometimes in this case, Shah Mehmood Qureshi has been arrested on 9th May.

00:41 Although he was ordered to be released in the Cipher case by the Supreme Court.

00:46 In the last few days, there was a talk of free and fair elections or level playing field.

00:53 There was a case in the Supreme Court, which was listed yesterday, but now it has been delisted.

01:00 And there were similar incidents that were being pointed out.

01:05 The incidents are that people are being put in jail, people's documents, the names that are collected,

01:13 are being snatched, videos of that are available on mobile.

01:19 Apart from this, there is news from many places that there is a law in our country that

01:26 the person who wants to fight the election should be nominated and should be seconded.

01:32 Someone is being picked up, there are many such things that are being put in place in all these actions, which are called elections.

01:41 What is an election? How should it be?

01:43 We talk about free and fair elections again and again.

01:46 Voting is not just about elections.

01:49 And I think that now the matter will go to the Supreme Court.

01:52 It is also the responsibility of the Supreme Court, and of Mohsin Zardariya,

01:56 to make sure that free and fair elections are made.

01:59 If only the election is made sure that people come and vote,

02:03 it can be done, but what credibility does that act have?

02:07 We will talk about this in our today's program.

02:11 And the question is, if there is no credibility of the action, then what will be the credibility of the coming government?

02:17 If there is no credibility of that, then how will the revolution that everyone is looking for come?

02:21 And if there is no revolution, then how will the economy be fine?

02:23 So, all this linkage, this fight, is starting with this action that is going on in this country today.

02:30 The Election Commission is definitely trying at this time how to take the baton,

02:36 how to do what, how to give benefit to one and harm to another.

02:41 But the long-term consequences of this are also coming.

02:46 Roop Kailasar is with us, thank you very much, Atar Kazmi, thank you, Muneeb Farooq is with us, thank you.

02:52 Roop sir, you must have seen the scenes, obviously, Britishers are on all TV screens since morning.

02:57 You saw that this happens in Pakistani politics, no problem, you thought it was not right.

03:03 But clearly, no one will say that these scenes are right, especially as it is said that

03:08 two times he has been the foreign minister of Pakistan and has been in politics for the last 40-50 years,

03:15 has been in power politics, has been in government, he understands all these things.

03:19 I see two or three things in this. Now, this could have been done in the jail.

03:24 They could have been transported in a car from the jail, or whatever, they could have been transported.

03:30 You must have seen Mr. Khan being arrested two or three times, put in jail.

03:33 I don't think so. I will ask Muneeb, because he is a lawyer also.

03:38 I think that release means that you are released.

03:41 You must have seen many scenes in the last 6 months, 3 months, that people get bail,

03:46 they come out of jail and the police arrest them again.

03:50 A little while ago we were talking with Atar, which law, which law, which one do you think was on regulation,

03:56 that these things were going on, the process was being completed, so they thought that

04:00 this process has to be completed, we will take them to the dock, they will be caught from the dock.

04:03 Behind this, I have another, my view is that two or three messages had to be given.

04:07 One from here, you remember, Mr. Khan and Mr. Khuree were released from the Supreme Court,

04:12 they were released and then they were released from the Peshawar High Court.

04:16 So after that, these reports started coming that maybe the winds have started to change,

04:19 maybe there has been a change of heart, maybe it seems that the conversation has started.

04:24 This loud messaging has been done that, brother, we have not had any conversation,

04:28 rather, they have already sent a message for PTI, for their followers, for their sympathizers,

04:36 or those people who had a little hope.

04:38 Or for the Kings Party.

04:39 Or for the Kings Party, or you be happy, you have been arrested.

04:42 Or it was being understood that maybe work has been done on Shah Maud Qureshi,

04:45 they are being sent to get bail, you know conspiracy theories.

04:47 And a lot of things were happening here that Mr. Khan has to work hard and bring a new phase,

04:53 and later on, Mr. Khosa or Mr. Gohar, they will not be able to sell with the public.

04:58 So Mr. Qureshi, because he is a party member, now they will go out,

05:02 they will go and give the message of Mr. Khan, there is an election crowd,

05:05 there are rallies, there are rallies, they will address and maybe the environment of PTI will be created,

05:09 they will take this forward and the 8th February election, they will win and make the signs of victory.

05:14 Now this feeling, you must have seen, it was created in the last week.

05:18 I think that the way they were treated there, they were dragged and it should not be like this, that's very unfortunate.

05:24 Behind this, there was a messaging for all those people who were thinking that maybe at some stage,

05:30 some establishment or at some stage, some institution or people,

05:34 with Mr. Khan or with their second tier, or want to give PTI a level playing field,

05:39 or want to keep PTI in the field, for them, a very loud and clear message has been sent that,

05:43 brother, Delhi is still far away, at least till 8th February, they will come and understand,

05:53 till the election is not there, for PTI, you will not get any concession here,

05:59 you will not get relief, you will not get a level playing field, and if you understand this,

06:04 then there was no one more than Mr. Shah Maud Qureshi, who could be dragged.

06:10 That was the maximum, so I think it was a loud message, otherwise,

06:15 they could have taken out the bar from the jail and handover from there.

06:19 Okay, note one more thing, that by bringing in front of the cameras, there are cameras there,

06:23 there are YouTubers, and then they are making films through your telephone,

06:28 it is happening in front of all of them, you have deliberately created this scene.

06:31 It is happening in front of all of them, and through the screen, it is going up to the election commission.

06:36 I am sure the judges have seen it, I am sure all of them have seen it.

06:40 I think this was planned, this was planned, this was planned,

06:43 there was a loud and clear message to be given.

06:45 Athar, Athar.

06:46 This is a continuation, basically, the law and the constitution are being dragged,

06:50 every day everyone feels bad when I talk about the law and the constitution,

06:53 but basically, this is a new constitution, we will explain this.

06:57 Basically, the law and the constitution are being dragged.

06:59 When did I say this to you? You are quoting me.

07:01 No, no, I said, you always say that you talk about the law and the constitution.

07:04 No, no, you tried to blame me, when did I say this in the conversation?

07:07 No, no, we were talking about it earlier.

07:09 No, if you were talking about it earlier, I would have given you my argument.

07:12 No, no, you always say that.

07:13 No, you are misquoting me wrongly, sitting here.

07:15 No, I am not misquoting you, I am sitting with you.

07:17 You can misquote me when you are not here.

07:19 No, I am saying the same thing.

07:20 You talk about yourself.

07:21 You talk about yourself.

07:22 Let's take back this sentence, let's not do this, everyone says that it should be done somewhere,

07:26 but there are ground realities as well.

07:28 No, no, there are ground realities, ground realities are that we three people sitting here,

07:32 we cannot condemn this, that this is a shameful thing.

07:34 So you do it, who has forbidden you? I did not do it.

07:36 I am saying the same thing, I am also telling you about the ground realities.

07:39 I am saying the same thing, that the kind of treatment that is being done,

07:41 this has happened to Shah Mahmood Qureshi Sahib today.

07:43 You can see this during the 16 months.

07:45 Every court, this started with the magistrate's court,

07:48 and at that time people used to say, and they used to say on TV that,

07:51 sir, whoever it is, no one will leave them, no one will release them.

07:55 Your high courts then gave remarks, that you can do a press conference,

07:58 and that which started with the magistrate's court, now it has reached the Supreme Court.

08:03 So how can you justify this?

08:06 No one can justify this.

08:08 I am saying the same thing, that this is happening, this is basically happening,

08:11 and this is a continuation of that.

08:13 This has been happening for 75 years.

08:15 I am saying the same thing, it is a continuation.

08:17 It has not been 3.5 years.

08:18 It is a continuation, it is a continuation, but the problem is that

08:20 those who fought against this for 3.5 years, fought a campaign,

08:24 and said that we will come and improve this,

08:26 whether they did it or not, or whatever happened in the last 3.5 years,

08:29 but our thing is that what is in front of us,

08:32 we will tell that this is the thing, and this is wrong, or this is right.

08:35 Secondly, if there are no elections according to the political system,

08:39 then Noreen starts crying, this happens, that happens.

08:43 Who is Noreen?

08:44 If nothing is happening according to the system of the country,

08:47 if there are no elections, then on top of that,

08:50 if we don't want to cry, then at least we should have a little bit of anxiety.

08:55 Yes, you are expressing your opinion, no one has refused you.

08:58 Muneeb Farooq Sahib, elections should be free and fair,

09:03 level playing field should be there,

09:05 a case is going on in the court, the court has also said,

09:07 the Attorney General has also said that there is no trust,

09:09 the election commission also at least comes for lip service,

09:13 that they keep saying verbal abuse,

09:15 but these incidents, the nomination papers that happened in the last 4-5 days,

09:22 even the President of Pakistan spoke, he was silent for a long time,

09:26 he also raised the issue of snatching the papers,

09:30 he also spoke about Shah Mehmood Qureshi,

09:32 he is talking about human rights,

09:34 but that's how elections will be,

09:36 this election commission, you know, it is 2023,

09:39 it is a social media,

09:41 I remembered that brainless dialogue,

09:44 that scoundrel Gendis says that there is law here,

09:48 there is trust, there is us,

09:50 Salman Khan, what was his name in that movie, I forget his name,

09:54 Chulbul Pandey,

09:56 he says there is us,

09:58 but the problem here is that there is no us,

10:00 no law, no election commission,

10:02 what is happening?

10:04 The thing is, Kashif bhai sahib,

10:07 the trust is in the pocket,

10:09 take it from me, put it in the pocket of the Attorney General,

10:12 there is no issue in that,

10:14 we can give it,

10:16 we can take it,

10:18 nothing will happen,

10:20 but the thing is,

10:22 what is to happen is what is being said,

10:24 or what is being desired,

10:26 now what is the issue in this?

10:28 I will just tell you that

10:30 the arrest of Shah Mehmood Qureshi

10:32 has not been done under MPO,

10:34 the thing is that yesterday,

10:36 Deputy Commissioner,

10:38 yes,

10:40 that night Deputy Commissioner,

10:42 in the early hours of the day,

10:44 in the late hours of the night,

10:46 he withdrew,

10:48 now the police have taken him,

10:50 God knows what,

10:52 in which case,

10:54 he was nominated,

10:56 but if my memory serves me well,

10:58 I have never seen Shah Mehmood Qureshi

11:00 talking against the army or the state,

11:02 very careful, very careful,

11:04 if you ask any PTI,

11:06 which person would have not done such a thing,

11:08 would not have talked like this,

11:10 would not have provoked,

11:12 would not have taken Shah Mehmood Qureshi's name.

11:14 It is like this,

11:18 they are very careful in this matter,

11:20 now I would just like to say this,

11:22 see, the issue is that,

11:24 now,

11:26 like Raul Khasa Sahib is sitting,

11:28 Athar Kaalbish Sahib is sitting,

11:30 we all know what is happening,

11:32 or what is the issue,

11:34 now when we talk about ground realities,

11:36 it does not necessarily mean that

11:38 any of us is condoning ground realities

11:40 many people,

11:42 I talk about myself,

11:44 I abuse because if you are told a fact,

11:46 that this is ground reality,

11:48 they say no, you should campaign against it,

11:50 but that is not my job,

11:52 I can say that this is wrong,

11:54 this is illegal, but that is it,

11:56 I cannot do anything more than this,

11:58 I cannot fight with the state,

12:00 or with the state institutions,

12:02 now the issue here is only this,

12:04 that we talk about this,

12:06 I am saying that this should not happen,

12:08 but you will not be latent,

12:10 I mean,

12:12 you will go back to 2018,

12:14 there was some chaos,

12:16 that South Punjab will become Mahas,

12:18 and if someone was killed,

12:20 they said that it was the people of Maikma Zaraat,

12:22 I made a mistake,

12:24 but you would see that things are going on in the background,

12:26 but the images that we are seeing,

12:28 are latent,

12:30 Qahim Sahib,

12:32 I request you,

12:34 like you are saying,

12:36 I have this in my mind,

12:38 and we say that this is not sweet,

12:40 this is not sweet,

12:42 this is very spicy,

12:44 and this is burning the mouth,

12:46 and this will not be boiled,

12:48 nor will it be swallowed,

12:50 this is such a thing,

12:52 so the answer that is usually gathered,

12:54 which is also gathered by a stupid person like me,

12:56 is that insanity has also reached the same level,

12:58 so obviously,

13:00 the more bitter the disease,

13:02 the more bitter or bitter the cure will be,

13:04 and then the argument ends there,

13:06 you rest your case,

13:08 now the issue here is that if I complete my argument,

13:10 the only thing is that we are saying that

13:12 this election should be according to the law,

13:14 and there should be no error in anything,

13:16 but the issue here is that

13:18 every community,

13:20 if we say to Pakistan Muslim League Noon,

13:22 that this was not happening in 2018,

13:24 so at least this should not happen,

13:26 we are going around in circles,

13:28 it will come in front of you,

13:30 and God forbid,

13:32 it will be with you,

13:34 so the answer to that,

13:36 as they say, they do not give in clear, unequivocal words,

13:38 they say yes,

13:40 but no, they have done this,

13:42 but if we go above that,

13:44 and talk somewhere else,

13:46 talk to Mukhtadara,

13:48 so there the argument is different,

13:50 there it is that no,

13:52 as I told you earlier,

13:54 no, whatever the mouth,

13:56 it is like this,

13:58 and it will remain like this,

14:00 but with all due respect,

14:02 all these state institutions,

14:04 are constitutional institutions,

14:06 and there is a law in our country,

14:08 but unfortunately,

14:10 they do not have an executive force,

14:12 at the end of the day,

14:14 if there is a need for an executive force,

14:16 then there will be an executive force,

14:18 if you look at the election commission,

14:20 it does not seem that

14:22 to get it to act on its decisions,

14:24 I will ask this question to Mr. Rauh,

14:26 that there is a need for an executive force,

14:28 but they are looking hell bent

14:30 on doing certain things,

14:32 that is a separate debate,

14:34 that what should happen,

14:36 there is a law,

14:38 there is a law,

14:40 there is a we,

14:42 that is a separate debate,

14:44 it will continue in Pakistan,

14:46 but it is not blatant,

14:48 as we were saying,

14:50 it is in your face,

14:52 so the purpose of the election

14:54 will be lost,

14:56 so whatever vote you get,

14:58 I think,

15:00 the purpose of the election

15:02 is already lost,

15:04 Irfan Siddiqui has changed his position,

15:06 Shabaz Sharif was saying something else,

15:08 when he was standing with Faisal Saleh Ajaad,

15:10 that our Prime Minister,

15:12 Nawaz Sharif,

15:14 Irfan Siddiqui is saying that

15:16 this decision has not been made yet,

15:18 now look at these two things,

15:20 the impact of this on those parties

15:22 that it was decided that

15:24 this is our matter,

15:26 they have realised that

15:28 by giving this impression,

15:30 that we have already said that

15:32 Nawaz Sharif is the Prime Minister,

15:34 and he has been elected for the fourth time,

15:36 you have raised questions on the whole process,

15:38 you have started raising questions

15:40 on the institutions that are going to be elected,

15:42 if all this has happened,

15:44 then why do you need to invest 60-70 billion rupees,

15:46 you should notify,

15:48 now they are repositioning themselves,

15:50 I think Irfan Siddiqui has tried to reposition

15:52 but no one is ready to believe him,

15:54 on which you are saying blatantly,

15:56 that the fourth use is against your opponents,

15:58 and after 8th February,

16:00 no one will even believe you,

16:02 and all people will come and question you,

16:04 then allegations of corruption will be put,

16:06 then protests,

16:08 and if the People's Party does not get a share in power,

16:10 then forget Imran Khan,

16:12 first of all, the People's Party will come and say,

16:14 we said that there is an election,

16:16 so from now on,

16:18 they will start saying that

16:20 in Islamabad, they are saying that

16:22 in Jhang, Jianuna,

16:24 there is something else,

16:26 they are saying that

16:28 you are under pressure,

16:30 that the institutions that are facilitating Nawaz Sharif,

16:32 and his nominees are sitting in the cabinet,

16:34 and at this time,

16:36 your election commissioner,

16:38 he is not able to implement the decisions,

16:40 which decisions?

16:42 for example, they said that

16:44 the 4-5 ministers,

16:46 who were Nawaz Sharif's bureaucrats,

16:48 they said that

16:50 they have removed them,

16:52 and they did not remove them,

16:54 and they said that

16:56 the minister has said that

16:58 you should give them the approval,

17:00 and you are talking about the law,

17:02 and the blatant,

17:04 and Ahad Cheema is a bureaucrat,

17:06 he has been,

17:08 he was not even that great,

17:10 he was in the 18th, 19th, or 20th grade,

17:12 look at his defence level,

17:14 to the election commission,

17:16 and to the rest of the people,

17:18 they said that

17:20 they will not collect their votes,

17:22 Fahad Sarfat, Sarfat Bukhti,

17:24 Kakkar, everyone did it,

17:26 they said that

17:28 I will not give my details,

17:30 my beard, to the election commission,

17:32 that you publish my details,

17:34 the whole world should know what I have,

17:36 my wealth, my property,

17:38 they did not give it to them,

17:40 they left it to the minister,

17:42 that you do not have to give details,

17:44 even though I think that

17:46 all the details should have been with the FBI,

17:48 all the tax filers are sitting,

17:50 but you know what they said to the election commission,

17:52 by writing a letter,

17:54 Ahad Cheema,

17:56 they said that give me some days,

17:58 I am collecting my papers,

18:00 I have so much wealth,

18:02 I am collecting papers,

18:04 I have papers,

18:06 so I will collect the papers,

18:08 so my question was,

18:10 you did not file tax to the FBI,

18:12 everyone has filed tax there,

18:14 so the details of the wealth,

18:16 one bureaucrat, on the request of the election commission,

18:18 he is not ready to give his own,

18:20 he is ready to become a minister,

18:22 he is taking the ministries, he is taking the luxury,

18:24 because he happens to be very close to Shahbaz Sharif sahib,

18:26 Fawad Sahib,

18:28 look at him,

18:30 he has written a letter to the election commission of Pakistan,

18:32 that you stop the privatization process,

18:34 let the new government come,

18:36 so when the election commission of Pakistan,

18:38 had two or three options,

18:40 either you resign,

18:42 that I am not being listened to, I quit,

18:44 or the other is to implement your decisions,

18:46 who will implement the decisions,

18:48 either the supreme court will do it,

18:50 or your establishment will do it,

18:52 but will the executive power not be there,

18:54 in the case of the election commission of Pakistan,

18:56 they are all powerful,

18:58 so if the implementation is not done,

19:00 they will not do it,

19:02 but their problem is,

19:04 this could be the good face, bad face,

19:06 I am not saying good cop, bad cop,

19:08 but the good faces,

19:10 you have written a letter,

19:12 you are not ready to implement the bad faces,

19:14 otherwise the election commission,

19:16 Mr. Rope, stand up,

19:18 none of them can stand up,

19:20 stand up means,

19:22 if someone denies you,

19:24 I don't do it,

19:26 they say on our side,

19:28 on our side,

19:30 that whoever goes and says,

19:32 or goes across the river,

19:34 means,

19:36 you have taken the whole country in your hands,

19:38 highway or highway,

19:40 you have made the status of the election commission of Pakistan,

19:42 zero,

19:44 you have compromised the independence of the election commission,

19:46 then you say we are going to have elections,

19:48 but Mr. Rope, the election commission of Pakistan,

19:50 is not helping the case,

19:52 the way they are giving the decisions,

19:54 the way they are working,

19:56 I have seen one thing,

19:58 I have given a suggestion before,

20:00 you have to make this country right,

20:02 you make three ministers,

20:04 you make Nawaz Sharif,

20:06 the country will be right,

20:08 when they don't want to accept,

20:10 they can have elections in any way,

20:12 angels have descended here,

20:14 all over the world,

20:16 I am saying again,

20:18 you and I are not going to make these decisions,

20:20 they have given the decisions,

20:22 they have challenged,

20:24 the courts have given the decisions,

20:26 you can make the decision by looking at the decision,

20:28 you remember the election of 10th,

20:30 what happened in that,

20:32 the people who were punished,

20:34 they were given the post in Punjab,

20:36 when you have to defy everything,

20:38 when you don't want to listen to anyone,

20:40 neither Imran Khan nor Nawaz Sharif,

20:42 nor the people's party,

20:44 when I don't want to listen to such a horrible culture,

20:46 and all three are cults,

20:48 all three have chosen their lotteries,

20:50 they have distributed,

20:52 you are saying that they don't listen,

20:54 there is one way to see this,

20:56 we will talk about this after the break,

20:58 that they don't listen,

21:00 the people are losing their minds,

21:02 neither the one who doesn't listen is wrong,

21:04 I believe that in the 2018 election,

21:06 all the issues were not visible,

21:08 listen to me,

21:10 there are good leaders,

21:12 when you remember the 2000,

21:14 when was it,

21:16 Al Gore's election,

21:18 Al Gore had accepted,

21:20 he went to the Supreme,

21:22 he accepted the decision,

21:24 he didn't go further,

21:26 he said that after this,

21:28 the people will not listen to you,

21:30 you have started a strong march,

21:32 not with the Americans,

21:34 sometimes you have to digest the leadership,

21:36 for a country or a nation,

21:38 you have to make tough decisions,

21:40 against you too,

21:42 for the greater interest of the nation,

21:44 the people and the country,

21:46 you say my way or highway,

21:48 I am talking about everyone,

21:50 you are not ready to accept any election,

21:52 you think that in 2018 and 2023,

21:54 in elections,

21:56 the country was broken,

21:58 after that,

22:00 I am telling you,

22:02 when did I say that it should not happen,

22:04 if you and I are in control,

22:06 we can make it happen,

22:08 what is the use of you,

22:10 we don't want to become ministers,

22:12 we want the country to move forward,

22:14 the cycle of break,

22:16 is a curse,

22:18 that no one is ready to listen to anyone,

22:20 no one is ready to listen to any institution,

22:22 institutions are happy by making each other naked,

22:24 what can we four do,

22:26 we can sit and talk,

22:28 we can wish,

22:30 Muneeb has said a very good thing,

22:32 we can talk,

22:34 we can go and get the implementation done,

22:36 I am talking to the extent of conversation,

22:38 to say that no one will be happy,

22:40 it seems that the election commission is working properly,

22:42 the politicians will not be happy with the election,

22:44 I believe that it is not necessary,

22:46 that if the election is largely right,

22:48 which you and I will see,

22:50 if we see a small thing,

22:52 we will see a big thing,

22:54 the election commission chief,

22:56 the justice of Pakistan,

22:58 they could not do it,

23:00 they are bureaucrats,

23:02 the country did not suffer from a clean and transparent election,

23:04 it was because of this,

23:06 that the one who wins,

23:08 should not give power,

23:10 should not obey the will of the people,

23:12 the country was broken because of this,

23:14 the country was not broken because of this,

23:16 that there were clean and transparent elections,

23:18 and at that time there was a desire for power,

23:20 let's take a break,

23:22 after the break we will continue the conversation.

23:24 Welcome back viewers,

23:26 the difficulties of PTI will not reduce,

23:28 till the upcoming elections,

23:30 the situation is like this,

23:32 there will be scrutiny,

23:34 let's see who can stand the test of scrutiny,

23:36 the difficulties will increase.

23:38 See, whatever has been done so far,

23:40 either the candidates of the Noon League

23:42 are not complaining,

23:44 or we have seen that Chahat Fateh Ali Khan

23:46 has submitted his nomination papers,

23:48 there is no problem,

23:50 everyone is complaining,

23:52 as far as justice is concerned,

23:54 the first test is his nomination.

23:56 They are complaining,

23:58 they are saying that they need some more space,

24:00 they are saying that,

24:02 I have written a lot of articles,

24:04 you see,

24:06 I think Irfan Siddiqui's column has 3-4 pages,

24:08 if you look at it,

24:10 the content is the same,

24:12 why are they not giving the punishment?

24:14 Every day if you listen to them,

24:16 you will see that everyone is saying,

24:18 why are you not giving them the punishment?

24:20 Because the punishment is inside,

24:22 there is a little space.

24:24 See, those who are Mullahs,

24:26 you must give them the punishment.

24:28 Whether it is a matter of money,

24:30 whether it is someone else,

24:32 whatever it is,

24:34 you must deal with them according to the law,

24:36 but all this is going on,

24:38 has the Noon League's credibility

24:40 remained till now?

24:42 Now the biggest issue is salvage credibility,

24:44 you need that.

24:46 Who has it?

24:48 No one has it,

24:50 but the problem is that,

24:52 Kashif sir,

24:54 this time a little thing has changed,

24:56 this time everything,

24:58 minute by minute,

25:00 your history is being documented,

25:02 on TikTok,

25:04 on different places.

25:06 My friend, if you look back,

25:08 everything is documented.

25:10 We are not talking about the 16th century,

25:12 you tell me 15 statements of Mian sir.

25:14 I can teach you.

25:16 Yes, the same thing,

25:18 teaching and looking in front of you every 2 minutes,

25:20 there is a difference.

25:22 Now these people are seeing again and again,

25:24 and because of this,

25:26 managing things in that way is not so easy.

25:28 We are living in a different age,

25:30 until you realize this,

25:32 you will have problems.

25:34 At this time, the methods are for justice,

25:36 in the future it will be for someone else,

25:38 but overall the issue,

25:40 this is the issue of the whole country,

25:42 if today you make it a new normal,

25:44 then it will become a new normal,

25:46 and where it started,

25:48 it will never be an issue.

25:50 Where will it end,

25:52 will be the real issue.

25:54 I hope we get over this.

25:56 Muneeb, were you saying something?

25:58 No, no, I was listening,

26:00 you ask the question.

26:02 Muneeb sir listens to my talks with great pleasure.

26:04 No, no, he was talking to someone else,

26:06 he was taking you so non-serious,

26:08 what are you doing?

26:10 Don't feel so good about yourself.

26:12 Let me honestly tell you,

26:14 he was talking to someone else,

26:16 I thought he wanted to say something.

26:18 I am sorry.

26:20 Muneeb sir,

26:22 everything has an action consequence,

26:24 every action has a consequence,

26:26 if the elections are not credible,

26:28 like we said earlier,

26:30 the 2018 elections were held,

26:32 some things were done secretly,

26:34 we know what is happening behind the scenes,

26:36 but they were done secretly,

26:38 and suddenly you saw from the first day,

26:40 the selector, selected,

26:42 kings party, all this was going on.

26:44 And for 3-3.5 years,

26:46 till the PDM didn't bring down the government,

26:48 till then this was going on in Pakistan.

26:50 Here, in the 2024 elections,

26:52 if we go in the same way,

26:54 and the elections are held in the same way,

26:56 if the credibility of the process is not there,

26:58 then what credibility will be of the coming government,

27:00 how will that system work?

27:02 Okay, Muneeb sir,

27:04 the question is very relevant,

27:06 but I think,

27:08 it is given,

27:10 that credibility,

27:12 well, earlier also,

27:14 you were right,

27:16 that earlier also,

27:18 it was not an issue,

27:20 but now it is given,

27:22 that you keep the credibility aside,

27:24 credibility is not important,

27:26 and it will not matter.

27:28 The matter is,

27:30 whether we want to have elections or not,

27:32 because the elections have already been delayed,

27:34 I still, I still,

27:36 Not elections, sir,

27:38 let's talk about voting,

27:40 elections means,

27:42 that elections between two parties,

27:44 both together, Nasrin,

27:46 Khulli Field and Jadha Jirjha,

27:48 here the problem is,

27:50 it seems that only voting will be done,

27:52 whatever will be done,

27:54 the result will be known.

27:56 The thing is,

27:58 if the people of a Jamaat,

28:00 or they do not have the people of the Jamaat,

28:02 or they do not know,

28:04 who to vote for,

28:06 or there will be no image of that Jamaat,

28:08 of that Jamaat's election campaign,

28:10 then voting will be the same thing,

28:12 how fair voting will be,

28:14 or how fair at the end of the day,

28:16 the process of election will be.

28:18 But I think,

28:20 it is not relevant now,

28:22 but I still say to you,

28:24 I do not know why,

28:26 I share some things with you,

28:28 we still have about 40 days,

28:30 so something big can happen,

28:32 and who knows,

28:34 maybe something will happen,

28:36 and this issue,

28:38 can happen,

28:40 what do you mean by something?

28:42 Look, Mr. Kajsaab,

28:46 Chief Justice has said,

28:48 I can talk at home,

28:50 over a cup of tea,

28:52 about my wife's elections,

28:54 I cannot talk on TV,

28:56 so what can I say,

28:58 what can I say,

29:00 to make you certain,

29:02 that what I am saying,

29:04 is reaching you.

29:06 Ok, listen,

29:08 first have a cup of tea,

29:10 and you talk to them,

29:12 and we will listen,

29:14 this is the way.

29:16 Yes, this is the way,

29:18 and I will tell you,

29:20 and you will know,

29:22 what you are drinking.

29:24 This is a credibility issue,

29:26 or our process,

29:28 because,

29:30 is it different from 2023-2018?

29:32 Very different,

29:34 very different,

29:36 because a lot happened,

29:38 there was a lot of facilitation,

29:40 and the system was given preference,

29:42 but at the same time,

29:44 that person,

29:46 he was doing big events,

29:48 the situation was completely different,

29:50 now, you see,

29:52 everything is happening for a person,

29:54 this is an impression,

29:56 maybe it is not happening,

29:58 maybe all our friends are taking

30:00 a wrong impression,

30:02 but it seems like,

30:04 everything is happening for a person,

30:06 who is not politically strong enough,

30:08 to come to the field,

30:10 and to compete politically,

30:12 and then we saw,

30:14 till today,

30:16 some high court in Pakistan,

30:18 has said,

30:20 and they have mentioned this,

30:22 again, Supreme Court,

30:24 Qazi Faiz Ishaq,

30:26 and all these honourable judges,

30:28 are sitting and watching,

30:30 the level playing field case was also filed yesterday,

30:32 but now the benches are delisted,

30:34 anything different,

30:36 or is it the same as in the past,

30:38 when judge Shaban will give such comments,

30:40 that our case will not be accepted,

30:42 our case will not work,

30:44 then this will happen,

30:46 then you are sending a message,

30:48 which is wrong overall,

30:50 which is a wrong message,

30:52 I am saying this with respect,

30:54 people come to you,

30:56 as a last hope,

30:58 can I add one thing,

31:00 which will help your argument,

31:02 what is the difference between our courts,

31:04 and American courts,

31:06 yesterday a lawyer was explaining to me,

31:08 that American courts have no way,

31:10 to get their decisions acted on,

31:12 in Pakistan,

31:14 courts have so much power,

31:16 and they have so many contempt cases,

31:18 do you think,

31:20 now I will add this to your argument,

31:22 that they are helpless,

31:24 they are just showing,

31:26 suppose you are helpless,

31:28 you don't express your helplessness,

31:30 you are also getting weak,

31:32 judiciary is also getting weak,

31:34 and the client who has come to you,

31:36 whoever has come,

31:38 you are weakening him also,

31:40 even if you don't do the work,

31:42 when you start talking like this,

31:44 giving judgments,

31:46 commenting,

31:48 that we are helpless,

31:50 our decisions are not being accepted,

31:52 the ones who were supposed to get their decisions,

31:54 remember Iftikhar Chaudhary,

31:56 he says man behind the gun,

31:58 it all depends upon the man behind the gun,

32:00 I have seen Iftikhar Chaudhary,

32:02 or I have seen Saqib Misar,

32:04 let's leave him controversial,

32:06 he is not a good ideal example,

32:08 I am going to his power,

32:10 I have seen in his time,

32:12 your executive,

32:14 your establishment,

32:16 your media,

32:18 all the people,

32:20 they called General Aslam Beg,

32:22 General Aslam Durrani,

32:24 ISI, Asghar Khan,

32:26 the government ministers,

32:28 they sent a minister home,

32:30 serving your Ustad Gilani,

32:32 man behind the gun,

32:34 the next chief justice,

32:36 mostly with respect,

32:38 the powers they had gained,

32:40 the restoration of judiciary,

32:42 the powers the people gave you,

32:44 the people said you go and sit,

32:46 and make independent decisions,

32:48 but that power was abused,

32:50 yes, Iftikhar Chaudhary,

32:52 his son was scandaled,

32:54 Malik Riyad and the company,

32:56 you were compromised,

32:58 but the power was abused,

33:00 I am coming to that,

33:02 the people played with their lives,

33:04 many people were killed,

33:06 there were bomb blasts,

33:08 in Karachi,

33:10 in Islamabad,

33:12 people let them go,

33:14 to free you, to restore your power,

33:16 they restored you,

33:18 today you sit and after the restoration,

33:20 say that our Sunni will not go,

33:22 our Mani will not go,

33:24 then, we keep on saying the idealistic things,

33:26 and we should always do,

33:28 then you were not worthy,

33:30 then you should not have been a judge,

33:32 then you were a lawyer,

33:34 you sit there and see many avenues,

33:36 if you are wearing a robe,

33:38 you are wearing a robe,

33:40 you have a court of English law,

33:42 it says,

33:44 the sky falls,

33:46 do the justice,

33:48 you are saying that my words will not be listened,

33:50 you should give a decision,

33:52 you should give a decision,

33:54 it is the same,

33:56 it is a big film,

33:58 you are on the concept that the sky falls,

34:00 let it fall,

34:02 you remember what they said,

34:04 that the judges should save jobs,

34:06 or make decisions,

34:08 then you don't have to be a judge,

34:10 if you don't have the capacity to take pressure,

34:12 you are in an extraordinary profession,

34:14 it is not a common profession,

34:16 you have to decide the life and death of people,

34:18 and you say that they come on us,

34:20 you remember Justice Naseem Basant Shah,

34:22 he was sitting on TV for 30 years,

34:24 he was crying that I was being pressured,

34:26 and he hanged Bhutto,

34:28 then why did you become a judge,

34:30 you should have left that,

34:32 you should have said that no one will listen,

34:34 no one will do this,

34:36 then it is Allah's will,

34:38 you are talking about political parties,

34:40 you have not started the campaign properly,

34:42 even in the Muslim League,

34:44 I was watching,

34:46 Rana sir said again that there are 100 seats,

34:48 in Punjab there are 100 seats of National Assembly,

34:50 earlier he was saying 125,

34:52 now he is saying 100,

34:54 so this majority that no one will get,

34:56 every person who is connected,

34:58 he says that sir,

35:00 majority is not with anyone,

35:02 if for example,

35:04 Mian sir will come to know that I am not getting majority,

35:06 then what will happen,

35:08 because he is thinking of two thirds,

35:10 or at least simple majority,

35:12 the thing is,

35:14 Mr. Akash,

35:16 Allah knows about the unseen,

35:18 but I think Mian sir has an idea that

35:20 majority will not get that way,

35:22 or as per Mian sir's mind,

35:24 that 100+ seats will be taken,

35:26 this is Punjab,

35:28 Punjab alone is talking about 148,

35:30 that 100+ will be taken,

35:32 Rana sir has said,

35:34 but that's what they have always been saying,

35:36 Rana sir will have his own mathematics,

35:38 but I will just say this,

35:40 that in today's date,

35:42 if this is to happen,

35:44 that he will have to vote,

35:46 then the thing will happen,

35:48 if I run alone and win the race,

35:50 then it will happen,

35:52 but if someone else,

35:54 will run alone,

35:56 then it will be a different matter,

35:58 but if someone else,

36:00 will run alone,

36:02 then it will be a different matter,

36:04 the thing is,

36:06 it depends,

36:08 this will be a little controversial,

36:10 can Mian sir get that many seats,

36:12 or can he get them,

36:14 or will someone be ready to give,

36:16 this is also a big issue,

36:18 because the idea is,

36:20 that the coming government in our country,

36:22 will also be a controlled government,

36:24 it will not have the space,

36:26 to assert,

36:28 and maybe he will understand the method,

36:30 but I don't think,

36:32 that if it happens,

36:34 then nothing can be said about it,

36:36 but PM LN,

36:38 he will say that we are going 100 plus,

36:40 in Punjab,

36:42 and we will get seats in Rajasthan,

36:44 we have South,

36:46 and we will get good seats,

36:48 there is no harm in saying,

36:50 but the thing is,

36:52 that one scenario is,

36:54 that there is an election,

36:56 and it is already controversial,

36:58 and it should get a controversial result,

37:00 one is that,

37:02 before the election,

37:04 some other issues should happen,

37:06 and we should not see the election,

37:08 that we are seeing today,

37:10 I can't say more than this,

37:12 and I think,

37:14 when you talk about this on your vlog,

37:16 and I have to call you,

37:18 and understand what you are saying,

37:20 then you should speak more openly,

37:22 so that we can understand,

37:24 what is being cooked here,

37:26 No, I will tell you here,

37:28 and then you will have a problem,

37:30 I don't have any problem,

37:32 I will tell you openly,

37:34 Ok, take care of us,

37:36 thank you very much,

37:38 but if PTIs,

37:40 go like this in the election,

37:42 are they happy?

37:44 If they are allowed to fight in the election,

37:46 and they got the ballot,

37:48 and they got the ballots,

37:50 and the most candidates,

37:52 are from their side,

37:54 and they know that,

37:56 if they are allowed to participate in the election,

37:58 if they get the ballot,

38:00 then I think,

38:02 there will be no confusion,

38:04 if they get the ballot,

38:06 then there will be confusion,

38:08 but they are talking to a small party,

38:10 if they don't get the ballot,

38:12 then they will fight for one sign of that party,

38:14 so this is one thing,

38:16 and if they don't get the ballot,

38:18 then they will fight for one sign of that party,

38:20 No, there is another party,

38:22 Rahe Haq Party,

38:24 there is a small party,

38:26 and they will fight for one sign of that party,

38:28 that's an interesting one,

38:30 if this is plan B and plan C,

38:32 if a party,

38:34 who has the ballot,

38:36 but no candidates,

38:38 they will borrow the ballot,

38:40 and will ask the candidates to give 200 rupees,

38:42 this is one principle of politics,

38:44 they will never trust anyone,

38:46 you will trust the small party,

38:48 you will beat them,

38:50 you have seen the big parties,

38:52 so I think,

38:54 PTI will not try to repeat this mistake,

38:56 the smaller the party,

38:58 the more they will be compromised,

39:00 the more they will be manipulated,

39:02 and the whole party will be hijacked,

39:04 and they will be allotting the ballots,

39:06 and the party will be running in the National Assembly,

39:08 and they will decide,

39:10 who will be allowed to vote,

39:12 and who will not,

39:14 so I don't think PTI will do this,

39:16 and for that,

39:18 the women's parties,

39:20 or the minority parties,

39:22 should have been named,

39:24 if not, they will not get seats,

39:26 I am saying,

39:28 you are cutting all the power,

39:30 and giving it to the small party,

39:32 and the head of that party,

39:34 I am telling you the political strategy,

39:36 you are saying,

39:38 that they will be hijacked,

39:40 because many people will not understand,

39:42 and if they remove the seats,

39:44 in the whole environment,

39:46 on the basis of some other party,

39:48 then the game will change,

39:50 if you want to see it that way,

39:52 you can see it,

39:54 but I am saying,

39:56 that the women there,

39:58 or the people,

40:00 there is no problem of women in Bakhar Laiya,

40:02 in the whole of Pakistan,

40:04 I am telling you,

40:06 the head of the party,

40:08 Let's take a break.

40:09 Breakout is with you.

Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 27th December 2023

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