Best Of Forbes 2023: Influencers & Internet Culture

Forbes

0:00 'Black Forager' Is Making A Career From Ohio's Plants 19:57 Rhett & Link: How The Original Kings Of YouTube Built A Lasting Brand And Became Career Creators 54:50 An Exclusive Look At Jacksepticeye's Life: From YouTuber To Coffee Founder 1:05:11 Dylan Mulvaney Wants To Reinvent What It Means To Be A Celebrity 1:10:11 The Million Dollar Mime: How Khaby Lame Became TikTok's Biggest Star 1:24:35 Anna ‘Delvey’ Sorokin Talks About House Arrest And Her New Dinner Party Series 1:37:42 How Influencer Alix Earle Cornered A Social Media Market And Made $5 Million In One Year 1:56:35 How Monet McMichael Pivoted From Nursing School To Making $4 Million A Year As A Beauty Influencer

Transcript

00:00:00 (upbeat music)

00:00:02 (laughing)

00:00:08 Hello, I am Alexis Nicole Nelson,

00:00:11 and we are here in my backyard in scenic Columbus, Ohio.

00:00:15 Y'all wanna see a huge mushroom?

00:00:17 (growling)

00:00:18 Ooh.

00:00:20 My mom, who's like such an avid gardener,

00:00:22 when she would work in the garden,

00:00:24 I would usually be tasked with going

00:00:25 and finding the edible weeds around our yard

00:00:28 to bring in and add to dinner, lunch, snacks, what have you.

00:00:33 She had developed a lot of her love of plants

00:00:35 from her mother, my nana,

00:00:38 so she really got to pass that love of growing things

00:00:42 and plants in general onto my mom,

00:00:44 who then passed it down onto me.

00:00:47 I'm using ocean water to pickle these beets.

00:00:51 So I just developed this near obsession

00:00:54 with snackable plants that really followed me

00:00:58 all the way into adulthood.

00:01:00 And in terms of social media,

00:01:03 I mean, as a younger millennial,

00:01:05 I was pretty much raised by the internet in part.

00:01:08 I think internet was all of our third parents.

00:01:11 Unbeknownst to me until way later in life,

00:01:15 I'd kind of been honing getting better

00:01:18 at making good content,

00:01:20 things that people want to read,

00:01:22 things that people want to watch,

00:01:23 things that people want to share.

00:01:26 And then when I had my marketing job at Bark,

00:01:29 I really got to hone my skills there

00:01:31 because if you can make content that can sell things,

00:01:34 you can honestly make good content that does anything else.

00:01:38 I'd say a year or two into my time at Bark,

00:01:42 I had started posting on what at that time

00:01:45 was a finsta of mine

00:01:48 because I was worried about bothering my friends

00:01:50 and my family with all of my plant nonsense

00:01:54 in my posts and in my Instagram stories.

00:01:56 So I decided one day,

00:01:58 I'm just gonna make a plant finsta.

00:02:00 And I was deciding what name to choose.

00:02:04 And I was lamenting to my boss,

00:02:06 and she also forages.

00:02:07 And she was just like,

00:02:09 "Oh, well, you were talking about

00:02:10 "how you feel like you don't see a lot of people

00:02:13 "who look like you out in the world of foraging online.

00:02:16 "So maybe it should speak to that."

00:02:17 And I was like, "Oh yeah, you're right.

00:02:18 "I'm just gonna call myself Black Forager."

00:02:21 And I started posting mostly essays and still photos.

00:02:26 And as time progressed,

00:02:30 TikTok kind of came into the picture.

00:02:32 And I just tested a million different things

00:02:35 and got more comfy with video editing

00:02:38 and having my face in content.

00:02:42 And people really were resonating

00:02:45 with all of the foraging videos I was putting up.

00:02:47 (upbeat music)

00:02:51 (upbeat music)

00:02:53 I love having this yard.

00:02:54 It's my happy place.

00:02:55 So starting actually right here,

00:03:00 we have some violet leaves.

00:03:02 Violets, of course,

00:03:04 very famous for making those pretty purple flowers

00:03:06 in the springtime.

00:03:07 But a lot of people don't know

00:03:08 that their leaves are also a great leafy green.

00:03:12 Here we have some wood sorrel.

00:03:14 The seed pods do explode, but they are delicious.

00:03:17 I'm trying to see if any of them are ripe enough.

00:03:20 Two, oh, that one just did in my hands.

00:03:22 I ruined it.

00:03:23 Oh, that one is just shooting seeds out right now.

00:03:26 But they're tiny, so it's hard to see.

00:03:28 But if you catch them before they're shooting seeds out,

00:03:31 one, they look like little bananas,

00:03:33 and two, they are so tart and tasty.

00:03:35 The whole plant is really tart and tasty,

00:03:38 but I feel like the mini bananas are the best.

00:03:40 Let's see what else we have going on here.

00:03:42 Some black nightshade, which is currently flowering.

00:03:46 If you catch the greens before the plant is flowering,

00:03:49 you can cook them and eat them.

00:03:51 Here we have Spanish needles,

00:03:55 Bidens by Panata,

00:03:57 which stays really nice and tender all summer.

00:04:01 And I love their lacy leaves,

00:04:02 though it does often get confused with ragweed.

00:04:05 And it kind of tastes like cilantro

00:04:07 when parsley had a baby.

00:04:08 So if you're one of the cilantro soap people,

00:04:11 maybe stay away from this one.

00:04:13 But everyone else should enjoy it.

00:04:16 And this is our big old patch of lamb's quarters.

00:04:21 This is Chanipodium alba, white goosefoot.

00:04:26 And I love that we just have these lush patches of it

00:04:30 in the backyard.

00:04:31 And if you just keep breaking off the tender tops,

00:04:34 they will just keep growing

00:04:36 through the rest of the growing season.

00:04:37 Though I do let some of them go to seed

00:04:40 so we can get their tasty seeds to make things like cereal,

00:04:43 or you can pop them and add them into dishes,

00:04:46 like itty bitty tiny little popcorns.

00:04:48 I love being able to come back here to come eat a snack,

00:04:54 get a snack, make a snack,

00:04:56 when I just need to take a breather in between meetings.

00:04:59 Being a creator in Ohio,

00:05:03 I absolutely love it because my content is nature-centric.

00:05:07 And here I'm a stone's throw away

00:05:10 from the foothills of the Appalachian mountains.

00:05:12 You know, I could be at the Great Lakes in a couple hours.

00:05:16 I love what I have access to living here.

00:05:19 I'm usually very hard-pressed to leave

00:05:26 a foraging excursion with absolutely nothing,

00:05:29 just because there's almost always greens to be harvesting

00:05:33 or seeds from things to be harvesting.

00:05:36 And thankfully, we just have so many native edible plants

00:05:41 here in this part of Ohio

00:05:43 that as long as you know what to be looking for,

00:05:46 you can be finding things most times of the year.

00:05:49 So, can you do it everywhere?

00:05:53 Yes.

00:05:53 Should you do it everywhere?

00:05:56 No.

00:05:57 A lot of, especially state parks, national parks,

00:06:02 have rules put in place prohibiting foraging completely,

00:06:06 or at least curbing it a great deal.

00:06:10 If we wanna talk about how much of my diet is foraged food,

00:06:14 it depends on the time of year.

00:06:16 This time of year, I can have entire days

00:06:19 when everything that I am eating is foraged

00:06:21 because there's so much in season,

00:06:24 both like roughage, low-calorie things,

00:06:27 like lots of different greens,

00:06:28 and also some sugary, higher-calorie things, like fruit.

00:06:33 My tagline, now I guess somewhat famously,

00:06:39 which feels weird to say, is "Happy snacking, don't die."

00:06:44 And honestly, when I first started filming foraging content,

00:06:48 my partner, who is an attorney, was just like,

00:06:51 "You need to remind people that they need to stay alive,

00:06:55 "and that foraging, as fun as it is,

00:06:58 "is a little scary sometimes."

00:07:00 And I really just thought, "Happy snacking, comma,

00:07:04 "don't die," was such a perfect way to encapsulate that.

00:07:07 It's still reminding you that what you're doing

00:07:10 can be such a fun, joyous, and interesting activity,

00:07:14 but it is reminding you to be careful.

00:07:15 I am not afraid of eating things that are poisonous

00:07:19 because I don't eat things

00:07:20 unless I'm 100% sure of what they are,

00:07:23 and I think that should be everybody's rule.

00:07:25 Oh, here we have sochan.

00:07:32 I am actually gonna gather a few of these leaves

00:07:35 to cook with our milkweed buds.

00:07:38 And thankfully, a few of these leaves

00:07:40 really do go a long way 'cause they're huge,

00:07:43 and in terms of flavor.

00:07:45 We're gonna go ahead and give these greens

00:07:53 a nice little chopper-oony so we can get ready

00:07:56 to blanch them.

00:07:58 I do not have amazing knife skills.

00:08:01 Not that anybody should be worried

00:08:02 that something terrifying is going to happen.

00:08:04 I'm just a slow chopper, so don't judge me.

00:08:08 There we go.

00:08:13 And now these guys are going to go into some boiling water

00:08:17 so we can give them a little blanch-a-roony.

00:08:19 Let's go ahead and get these guys into the water.

00:08:24 Well, some of them didn't make it in.

00:08:27 That's okay.

00:08:28 And we're gonna go ahead and let those guys

00:08:32 do their thing for about a minute.

00:08:35 ♪ Do, do, do, do, do, do, do ♪

00:08:37 ♪ When your ice machine is broken ♪

00:08:39 ♪ You use bag ice ♪

00:08:42 There we go.

00:08:46 And now I'm gonna start scooping these guys up.

00:08:50 Blanching is great because it kind of breaks down

00:08:53 a little bit of the plant fibers.

00:08:55 It makes them this beautiful shade of green,

00:08:57 and then plunging them into the ice water

00:08:59 stops them from continuing to cook

00:09:01 so they don't get too mushy.

00:09:03 And let me cut the heat.

00:09:06 Get some of the last of these greens out.

00:09:10 There we go.

00:09:12 Let these guys finish cooling down.

00:09:15 Now I'm going to take these and wring them out

00:09:19 of their excess water.

00:09:20 And what we're gonna do with these

00:09:21 is get some salt and quick pickle them

00:09:23 'cause they quick pickle like a dream.

00:09:26 - I'm Olivia and I'm friends with Alexis.

00:09:31 I met her during college

00:09:32 and we've just been friends ever since.

00:09:34 Just here helping her prep with something

00:09:37 that she was out and about and foraging

00:09:40 and just make some tasty snacks.

00:09:41 Sometimes we make full dinners together

00:09:43 and sometimes we just make a little things here and there.

00:09:46 So that's what we're doing today.

00:09:47 The way I got into foraging was definitely through Alexis.

00:09:50 I was not an outdoorsy person at all.

00:09:52 You had to like convince me to go outside.

00:09:55 And honestly with foraging,

00:09:57 we kind of started going together at the start of the pandemic

00:10:00 'cause it was a really safe way for us to hang out

00:10:02 'cause we have the distance, we could do it with a mask.

00:10:04 But then it was also interesting.

00:10:05 Like for me, there was a point to being outside.

00:10:08 It wasn't just to reach the end of a trail,

00:10:09 but we got to like meander and mosey

00:10:12 and like look at different curious things.

00:10:14 And we got to have a lot of conversation

00:10:15 about like what could we do with this in cooking?

00:10:17 We've cooked together since we were in college.

00:10:19 And so being able to incorporate

00:10:21 all of these unique ingredients

00:10:22 and try and see like what are they adjacent to

00:10:24 that's normally used in the kitchen,

00:10:26 I found super interesting.

00:10:27 And it was nice 'cause we just got to have fun

00:10:29 and be able to hang out

00:10:30 in like a very weird time in the world.

00:10:33 (upbeat music)

00:10:36 (upbeat music)

00:10:42 (laughing)

00:10:43 - And there we go.

00:10:45 - So what is it?

00:10:47 - It is some vegan feta mixed with some foraged wild greens

00:10:52 and it is drizzled with a fermented Juneberry syrup

00:10:55 and topped with fermented fanberries.

00:10:57 - Fantastic.

00:10:59 - Turning a hobby into a profession is a joy some days

00:11:03 and honestly, it's a drag some days.

00:11:06 Some days I wake up and I'm so excited

00:11:10 that I get to just go outside

00:11:12 and be my normal, silly, loud, curious, often hungry self.

00:11:17 But some days you don't necessarily

00:11:23 want to be doing the thing.

00:11:25 You know, we all take breaks from our hobbies sometimes,

00:11:28 but when it's your job,

00:11:30 sometimes you just gotta do it anyway.

00:11:32 I would say, honestly, my biggest hurdle

00:11:38 has been my own mental health.

00:11:41 There are a lot of things about social media

00:11:44 that are ready to push your buttons.

00:11:47 We're humans and our silly little primate brains

00:11:50 were literally not wired to be receiving

00:11:53 this much feedback about ourselves.

00:11:56 Like ever and certainly not in a very short period of time.

00:12:01 So I've just had to get better at putting up a barrier

00:12:07 and like honestly getting a bit of a tougher skin.

00:12:10 - Thank you.

00:12:11 - I love you guys' pink bowls.

00:12:13 - I'm so excited for the Juneberries on top.

00:12:15 - The drizzle of the Juneberry,

00:12:18 like choosing one of the fermented fruit syrups

00:12:20 was a stroke of genius, Olivia.

00:12:21 - Oh, I was like, you're the one

00:12:24 that wanted something sweet on top.

00:12:25 I did not contribute to this.

00:12:26 - This is what comes up a lot when you walk in

00:12:27 and you're like, "I need some."

00:12:28 - Yeah, you have to use your brain now.

00:12:30 - I don't know what you're making, but put syrup on it.

00:12:33 Sugar.

00:12:34 - So Alexis on camera, like out in the world persona

00:12:40 versus Alexis at home persona

00:12:42 are extraordinarily similar people.

00:12:45 I would say there is like 95% overlap in that Venn diagram.

00:12:50 - She's really not that different.

00:12:53 I think the same type of jokes, the same songs,

00:12:55 all of those things are the things that you definitely see

00:12:57 when you hang out with her.

00:12:59 And she's an extremely encouraging person,

00:13:01 not just on camera, but also like in life.

00:13:03 I know that's probably why she has like a lot of friends

00:13:05 'cause she's just such a positive person to be around.

00:13:08 It's like a ray of sunshine.

00:13:09 Having like a big personality,

00:13:11 being able to show that on camera, filming herself,

00:13:15 I think really plays into like why her content

00:13:18 is so different than other foragers.

00:13:20 Also like she's always been into the environment

00:13:22 and I believe like even majored at one point

00:13:24 in environmental engineering.

00:13:26 I don't think that she does this

00:13:30 because she wants to have a career in it.

00:13:32 I think she does it 'cause she's passionate.

00:13:34 - Growing up, I knew culturally

00:13:44 that black people were not known

00:13:48 for spending a lot of time in the great outdoors.

00:13:51 I would go to these overnight camps in the woods

00:13:54 and if I was lucky,

00:13:56 there would be another person of color at camp.

00:13:59 And when I got to junior high school,

00:14:02 I just remember especially a lot of the other

00:14:05 like black women in my class being like,

00:14:07 "Oh, you were out hiking this weekend.

00:14:10 Why?

00:14:11 Like, por que?

00:14:12 Por que?

00:14:13 Like, what were you doing out there?

00:14:14 That's not where we go.

00:14:15 That's not what we do."

00:14:17 And it wasn't until I got older

00:14:18 that I realized how deliberate that was.

00:14:23 After slavery was abolished,

00:14:26 so many laws were put into place

00:14:29 during the advent of the Jim Crow era,

00:14:32 during the reconstruction era

00:14:34 that like disincentivized people of color

00:14:38 from a lot of different things,

00:14:40 one of which was feeling safe spending time outdoors.

00:14:45 And also a lot of those laws cut off the places

00:14:49 where you legally could be spending time outdoors.

00:14:53 If you were working on a plantation

00:14:56 and you were foraging on that land before emancipation,

00:15:01 people weren't really gonna think twice about that.

00:15:04 But afterwards, especially when some people of color,

00:15:07 some indigenous people, black people were thinking,

00:15:09 "Oh, I can support myself and my family now

00:15:12 with these skills."

00:15:14 A lot of farmers who now needed sharecroppers were like,

00:15:17 "Absolutely not,

00:15:18 'cause if you're making your own money that way,

00:15:20 how am I going to get you back and pay you pennies a day

00:15:23 to share crop on my land that you were working on for free?"

00:15:27 So what happened is starting in the South

00:15:30 and then kind of spreading to the rest of the country,

00:15:34 really, trespass went from being a civil offense

00:15:38 in which maybe you'd get a verbal warning,

00:15:41 maybe you would get a small fine,

00:15:44 to suddenly becoming a criminal offense

00:15:46 in which you could be doing jail time,

00:15:48 in which the fines would be something

00:15:51 that could put a family under,

00:15:53 set a family back in ways that were really debilitating.

00:15:57 And if you didn't own land,

00:16:01 then suddenly where were you going to be foraging?

00:16:05 The park system was also at its advent in the late 1800s.

00:16:11 And so suddenly these huge swaths of land

00:16:14 were also being parceled off

00:16:16 and people were being told,

00:16:18 "You cannot be foraging here

00:16:20 even if you had been foraging here before."

00:16:22 And all of those things added together,

00:16:27 really over the course of two generations,

00:16:31 took these groups of people

00:16:33 who were very used to being very outdoorsy

00:16:36 and having all of these skills

00:16:38 like foraging, trapping, fishing,

00:16:41 and systematically took it away from them.

00:16:44 Because why put yourself at risk?

00:16:47 Why put yourself at risk of violence?

00:16:49 Why put yourself at risk of financial ruin,

00:16:51 of being arrested and then not being able to find a job

00:16:55 and really not being able to provide for your family?

00:16:58 It just, it wasn't worth the risk.

00:17:00 So they stopped.

00:17:02 And it doesn't take very long

00:17:05 for generational knowledge to disappear.

00:17:08 You know, once the last generation

00:17:09 that was practicing it is gone,

00:17:12 reclamation becomes really difficult.

00:17:15 Which is why when I was naming my page, Black Forager,

00:17:20 I was just like, I want people to know

00:17:23 that this content is being made by a Black woman.

00:17:25 But the reason why I want them to know that

00:17:28 is much deeper.

00:17:32 There are now several, several hundred years

00:17:36 of us needing to reiterate that the outdoors are for us too.

00:17:41 I feel very lucky to have landed

00:17:51 in the community that we landed in.

00:17:53 There are a whole lot of initiatives here in Columbus.

00:17:56 Just in our neighborhood,

00:17:57 we have a coalition called Franklinton Forest,

00:18:00 which every spring,

00:18:01 any neighbor that wants one can sign up

00:18:04 to get a free native tree planting in their yard.

00:18:07 And this particular neighborhood

00:18:08 historically has been pretty poor.

00:18:11 A lot of times, especially in lower income

00:18:15 or in previously redlined communities,

00:18:17 you see a lack of tree cover and a lack of canopy

00:18:21 directly correlates with higher temperatures during summer.

00:18:25 It directly correlates with more heat-related illness

00:18:29 and deaths, especially in elderly people

00:18:31 in these neighborhoods.

00:18:33 And so for me, being able to get more trees

00:18:37 into people's yards, especially at no cost,

00:18:40 is so important.

00:18:41 We also have a local farm cooperative

00:18:47 called Franklinton Farms,

00:18:49 which took a bunch of the empty lots in the neighborhood

00:18:52 and converted them into volunteer-heavy farms.

00:18:57 And you can do a choose-your-own-price farm share bag.

00:19:01 So every week, we get produce that was literally grown

00:19:05 within a mile radius of where we live,

00:19:08 and we pay the full amount

00:19:10 so that other people who can't pay the full amount

00:19:13 have access to that fresh food.

00:19:15 I am hoping to see more communities

00:19:20 kind of taking hold of these spaces

00:19:23 and making them more green themselves.

00:19:26 'Cause a lot of those things are really hard to legislate

00:19:28 on a state or a federal level,

00:19:31 but you can enact a lot of change on a local level.

00:19:35 I love being able to do things to raise funds

00:19:39 for some of these different initiatives,

00:19:41 like offering foraging walks.

00:19:44 I just hope as I get older to be able to be involved

00:19:49 in more of these types of projects.

00:19:52 (upbeat music)

00:19:54 - Rhett, Link, thanks for joining us today.

00:20:09 Thrilled to have you here.

00:20:10 First question, talk to me about

00:20:12 what the Rhett & Link brand is.

00:20:15 How do you stand out in this sea of creators,

00:20:18 implementers, all the platforms?

00:20:21 - Well, our brand is called Mythical

00:20:23 because when we met, which was the first day of first grade,

00:20:28 we were both held in for recess

00:20:30 for writing nasty words on our desks.

00:20:32 And our teacher told us that we had to color pictures

00:20:36 of mythical beasts.

00:20:38 So that origin story is what our fans picked up on.

00:20:41 They started calling themselves Mythical Beasts.

00:20:43 So then we called our company Mythical.

00:20:45 And when we launched our talk show, Good Mythical Morning,

00:20:49 well, we knew we had to add a word Mythical.

00:20:50 We've got to have Mythical in everything.

00:20:52 - It's old school.

00:20:53 - It can be a little bit confusing.

00:20:54 People think that it means fictitious, not real.

00:20:57 We're really doing our best to rebrand Mythical

00:21:00 because we are real.

00:21:02 And we have been friends forever,

00:21:04 which I think that is the thing that sets us apart.

00:21:06 And it's the thing you can't control.

00:21:08 It's like when people find out, they're like,

00:21:11 did you really meet in 1984 and you're still best friends

00:21:14 and you still work together

00:21:16 and you still enjoy each other's company?

00:21:18 - I think you can kind of control your friends.

00:21:19 I mean, I choose every day to still be your friend.

00:21:22 And some days are harder than others to make that.

00:21:24 - And you also try to control me.

00:21:26 - I do, yes.

00:21:27 - Out of all the other digital content,

00:21:30 what do you guys stand for?

00:21:31 What do people tune in to see?

00:21:34 - We're all about creativity, community, comedy.

00:21:38 And I think that there is,

00:21:42 our friendship is kind of the core

00:21:44 of where everything is built, right?

00:21:46 So I think that there is this bond

00:21:48 that the two of us have that,

00:21:51 we were just trying to create things to make people laugh.

00:21:54 But what we ended up finding is that

00:21:57 a lot of what the appeal was,

00:21:59 is people just wanted to be the third friend

00:22:01 in this duo, right?

00:22:03 So when you hang out with us,

00:22:05 we speak directly to an individual person

00:22:08 when we do our show.

00:22:10 Because we're inviting you to,

00:22:11 hey, come and be a part of this friend group.

00:22:13 We're just, we're hanging out.

00:22:14 So I think that--

00:22:15 - You.

00:22:16 - Yeah.

00:22:17 - We talk to you.

00:22:18 - We talk to you.

00:22:19 - And who is this person?

00:22:19 Who is the you?

00:22:20 Do you have like a nickname for that person?

00:22:23 Do you picture them in your head?

00:22:24 Is it a certain demographic?

00:22:26 Who is the third leg of the stool here?

00:22:30 - I try not to be specific when I picture that one person,

00:22:34 but somebody who's willing to hang out with both of us

00:22:37 for many, many hours, for over 2000 episodes.

00:22:42 So it's someone who has a lot of patience

00:22:44 and has a very interesting taste in comedy.

00:22:49 - Growing up, were you two like the class clowns?

00:22:53 They had to separate you?

00:22:54 - Yeah.

00:22:55 - Make sure they were in different classes

00:22:56 'cause you're gonna disrupt the whole thing?

00:22:58 - Well, our town was too small for there to be two classes.

00:23:01 - Oh, that's very small.

00:23:02 - So they just kind of separated us.

00:23:05 - Other sides of the room.

00:23:06 - Yeah, proximity in the class.

00:23:08 But yeah, I think that is where it started.

00:23:10 When we began to see,

00:23:12 oh, there's a way you can draw attention to yourself.

00:23:14 I mean, everybody is in this business

00:23:16 because they're a little bit full of themselves

00:23:18 and wanna be the center of attention.

00:23:19 Hopefully not too much where it becomes your downfall,

00:23:23 but just enough to keep you going for a long time.

00:23:25 And I think that when we saw that people responded,

00:23:29 not just to us individually, but us together,

00:23:31 there was some dynamic that they were observing.

00:23:34 And then we began to learn what it was

00:23:37 that was appealing about that

00:23:39 and be able to package that in a way

00:23:40 that was entertaining to an audience,

00:23:42 but also fun for us to do for a very, very long time.

00:23:45 - You've been at this since the beginning,

00:23:47 but even before that, you both had other careers,

00:23:50 both engineers.

00:23:51 How did you go from your more analytical scientific jobs

00:23:55 to be like, you know what,

00:23:56 let's bring the band back together

00:23:58 and do this crazy YouTube thing,

00:24:00 which was back then very crazy and pioneering.

00:24:02 What was that spark that got you back into,

00:24:05 got you into show business?

00:24:07 - I think that the engineering aspects of our brains

00:24:12 helped us tenaciously approach digital media at every turn.

00:24:17 I mean, we always talked about it

00:24:19 and still talk about it as kind of the wild west,

00:24:22 the frontier, everybody's figuring it out.

00:24:25 You don't know exactly what the rules are.

00:24:27 You certainly don't know how to make money.

00:24:29 You have to figure it out.

00:24:31 So we've been using the barter system for,

00:24:36 yeah, almost 20 years now.

00:24:40 - What are you trading with me?

00:24:42 - Well, we trade with other people.

00:24:45 - I guess we pretty much have the same shirt on,

00:24:47 but that's only because when we showed up,

00:24:49 they gave us the shirts

00:24:50 and it was different shades of delicate shades of blue.

00:24:53 Very nice.

00:24:53 - Well, and I think, you know, to the engineering point,

00:24:56 it's funny because when you're a creator,

00:25:00 you're not just in the business of creating,

00:25:03 you're also in the business of analytics, right?

00:25:06 Because the way that we analyze what we do

00:25:09 is through this incredible data

00:25:12 that these platforms like YouTube provide.

00:25:15 And you don't want to read too much into that

00:25:17 because it can become this endless chasing of the algorithm

00:25:19 and trying to anticipate what the system is going to reward.

00:25:24 But if you don't do that, at least to some level,

00:25:26 and you just try to embrace the pure artistry

00:25:29 of just being a creator,

00:25:31 a lot of times you'll end up doing something

00:25:33 that doesn't feed into the algorithm at all.

00:25:36 And so I think that there's just been this balance

00:25:38 between the left brain and right brain

00:25:42 of there is an artist inside the two of us

00:25:46 and we want to do things that are creative

00:25:48 and original and innovative to us,

00:25:50 but we also want to do something that's practical

00:25:52 that actually connects with an audience

00:25:54 that you can build a brand around.

00:25:55 So I think that that's where the analytical side

00:25:58 enters the process.

00:25:59 - In terms of that balance, very interesting

00:26:01 because yes, you want to create, you want to be original,

00:26:04 but at the same time, whether it's trends or algorithms,

00:26:07 you need to kind of be in the zeitgeist

00:26:09 or on that bandwagon.

00:26:10 So how do you kind of find like, okay,

00:26:12 this is, we're putting our Rhett and Link stamp on this,

00:26:15 but you also have to kind of ride that wave.

00:26:17 How do you go about that?

00:26:19 - We still start with what we want to put out into the world

00:26:22 how we want to express ourselves.

00:26:24 We know that we're, we'll put our best foot forward.

00:26:28 We know we're good at talking to each other.

00:26:29 We've always done a lot of that.

00:26:31 At a certain point we realized,

00:26:33 let's stop talking to each other unless we're on camera.

00:26:37 I mean, not to that extreme.

00:26:39 - As soon as this camera shuts off,

00:26:41 we won't speak to each other for the rest of the day.

00:26:43 - Yeah.

00:26:44 - Way more than one year since.

00:26:44 - Yeah, right.

00:26:45 - It's, I mean, 38 years of friendship.

00:26:47 It's, we're like an old married couple.

00:26:50 You know, we, there's not a lot that's left unsaid,

00:26:52 but we still find a lot of things to say.

00:26:54 My point is-

00:26:55 - What's your point?

00:26:56 - When we, we were good at talking to each other

00:27:00 and we also wanted to set this challenge artistically

00:27:03 to say, okay, we're not going to do a bunch of jump cuts.

00:27:06 And so we were, when we were formulating

00:27:08 Good Mythical Morning as a format,

00:27:11 we put those two things together

00:27:12 and it fed into the algorithm

00:27:15 where YouTube was incentivizing longer watch time.

00:27:19 - And that was actually unintentional.

00:27:21 The reason that we ended up not doing jump cuts

00:27:23 is because we didn't want to have to edit the video.

00:27:25 Because in the early days,

00:27:26 when we started Good Mythical Morning,

00:27:28 we would show up, we would record the conversation

00:27:31 and we would turn around, edit it and post it.

00:27:33 Really sort of a precursor show to Good Mythical Morning

00:27:35 called Good Morning Chia Lincoln, but that's-

00:27:38 - Story for another time.

00:27:39 - A story for another time.

00:27:40 But-

00:27:41 - It's not Forbes worthy.

00:27:42 - The idea being that we've always done things

00:27:46 with this practical approach.

00:27:47 We'd be like, how do you get a video up every single day

00:27:49 where you can't overthink it

00:27:50 and you can't spend too much time editing it?

00:27:52 So you know what?

00:27:53 We won't edit it.

00:27:53 It'll just be an uncut conversation.

00:27:55 And it forces us into this place

00:27:57 where we had to be able to fill the air,

00:28:00 you know, without awkward pauses or cuts

00:28:03 or, you know, different camera angles.

00:28:05 And then we stumbled into what the algorithm

00:28:09 was rewarding at the time with YouTube

00:28:11 suddenly being very interested in the number of minutes

00:28:14 that a person would spend in a session.

00:28:17 And so all of a sudden we just found our videos

00:28:19 were being served up one after another.

00:28:21 And what we considered a side project

00:28:25 as Good Mythical Morning,

00:28:26 eclipsed our original YouTube channel very quickly

00:28:30 in terms of just daily audience.

00:28:33 - Real quick, give me the background story

00:28:34 of when you decided to just start making YouTube videos.

00:28:37 - So we had been making videos as like on the side, right?

00:28:42 Because we didn't know what we were gonna do

00:28:44 with this comedy thing.

00:28:45 We would get together one night a week.

00:28:47 We would write songs.

00:28:48 That was a big part of the original thing

00:28:50 was just, you know, writing funny songs together.

00:28:51 - And you're still working day jobs at this point.

00:28:53 - Yes.

00:28:53 - Yeah.

00:28:54 This is five years before YouTube existed.

00:28:56 - Yeah.

00:28:57 - We were engineers at the time.

00:28:58 - But what we would do is we would upload the videos

00:29:01 to a website, redlink.com.

00:29:03 And people would ask us, they would say,

00:29:06 why don't you guys have a,

00:29:07 once YouTube came out in 2005,

00:29:09 they were like, why don't you guys have YouTube?

00:29:10 We were like, well, and it was a YouTube at the time.

00:29:14 Why don't you have a YouTube?

00:29:14 Well, we don't need a YouTube

00:29:16 because we have a website, right?

00:29:19 But then when people literally took our videos

00:29:21 from our website, downloaded them,

00:29:23 and re-uploaded them to YouTube without our permission,

00:29:25 and they got more views than we got in a year,

00:29:29 in like a week, you know,

00:29:31 we were like, we should do that intentionally.

00:29:32 And that was when we began creating videos

00:29:35 on purpose for YouTube.

00:29:37 And then around 2006, 2007 is when we said,

00:29:41 I think we can support ourselves in doing this

00:29:45 by talking brands into being in our videos.

00:29:48 - Is there, can you think back on one video

00:29:50 that really caught on and kind of sparked

00:29:54 a breakthrough for you guys?

00:29:55 - We wrote a song about Facebook

00:29:57 and uploaded it to YouTube.

00:29:59 Go figure.

00:30:01 But then Facebook launched a thing called The Wall

00:30:06 where you could embed a video.

00:30:08 And so our Facebook song went viral on Facebook.

00:30:12 And then we started getting contacted

00:30:15 by marketing agencies to,

00:30:18 'cause everyone was trying to figure out,

00:30:20 okay, how do brands get involved in this medium?

00:30:23 These guys have figured it out.

00:30:26 Of course, that's what we told them.

00:30:29 - We found brands that were small and new

00:30:32 and willing to experiment and wanted to get involved

00:30:34 in the online thing and just wrote the agreements ourselves

00:30:38 and talked them into these CPM deals

00:30:41 that we were just kind of like reading on the internet.

00:30:44 So in the early stages of trying to figure out

00:30:47 how you went about this,

00:30:48 and so we just kind of invented a system

00:30:50 that we were like, I don't know,

00:30:51 how much should we charge for this?

00:30:52 Let's see what we can charge for it.

00:30:54 - We were very motivated to develop a business model

00:30:57 because we each had kids already.

00:31:00 And so we wanted to be able to buy groceries.

00:31:03 - So we encourage all young creators to have children.

00:31:06 That's really, that's the business play.

00:31:08 - That's the key, I see what you mean.

00:31:09 Speaking of business model,

00:31:10 how do you guys make money today, fast forward,

00:31:13 going from the old days to now?

00:31:14 What is the, it's gone beyond videos to a brand

00:31:17 to you are a media enterprise.

00:31:20 How does that enterprise make money?

00:31:21 - Ad revenue, merchandising, paid fan club,

00:31:27 and then we pursue all different types

00:31:31 of distribution opportunities.

00:31:32 We just launched a 24 hours a day, seven days a week,

00:31:36 mythical channel on Roku.

00:31:39 We developed and we've put on enough content

00:31:42 that we can power our own cable channel basically.

00:31:46 - The core of the business is still ads, right?

00:31:51 So once the YouTube Partner Program started,

00:31:54 that has always been the core for the foundation,

00:31:59 the biggest piece of the pie.

00:32:00 Over the past 15 years, that number has gotten larger,

00:32:05 but the size of the piece of that pie has gotten smaller

00:32:08 in relation to all the other business lines

00:32:10 that we've created.

00:32:11 And at this point, there's different forms of ad revenue

00:32:15 'cause there's brand integrations,

00:32:16 there's direct integrations, that kind of thing.

00:32:18 But I would say that our merch business,

00:32:22 back when we first started selling a T-shirt,

00:32:25 we would be like, I don't know,

00:32:26 how many T-shirts can you sell?

00:32:29 Different actual T-shirts can use,

00:32:31 not individual units, but just like a SKU.

00:32:33 How many SKUs can you sell to a fan base in a year?

00:32:36 We'd be like, I don't know,

00:32:37 maybe we should do a new T-shirt every quarter.

00:32:39 I think at this point, we're launching five to six SKUs

00:32:43 every week at mythical.com.

00:32:46 All T-shirts, just all kinds of products.

00:32:49 - If you can dream it, we can sell it.

00:32:52 And as long as our audience is along for the ride,

00:32:55 and it's fun, it's fun to,

00:32:58 we sold shoes over a decade ago.

00:33:00 - We've got lip balm, beard oil, pomade, lotion, cologne,

00:33:05 a musical cone that you can play.

00:33:10 We've had a puzzle.

00:33:13 - A shower curtain.

00:33:15 - Yeah, I mean, do you guys decide this

00:33:17 or do you have like a marketer who's like,

00:33:19 I have a great idea for you all.

00:33:20 - So this is all internal team at this point.

00:33:22 So we have an incredible merch team that in a design team,

00:33:27 they're constantly developing new concepts.

00:33:31 And also, a big part of it is just driven

00:33:33 by surveying our fans and asking the mythical beasts

00:33:37 what they want, what do they want to see?

00:33:39 You're kind of reading the tea leaves a little bit

00:33:41 to see what kinds of patterns

00:33:45 and the products that they respond to.

00:33:46 - Tea leaves, we should sell those.

00:33:49 - Don't put it past us, we will have tea.

00:33:50 - At some point.

00:33:51 - And we've got a great team.

00:33:53 I mean, we've got over a hundred employees working with us

00:33:58 out of our studio in Burbank.

00:34:00 So we learn to empower people to do things

00:34:05 who can do them better than we can.

00:34:08 And I think that was a big key in terms of growing

00:34:10 our studio and being able to branch out and say,

00:34:14 you know what, here's another way, not just to make money,

00:34:18 but another way to reach our audience,

00:34:21 to deepen that relationship.

00:34:23 - That's amazing that a decade ago,

00:34:26 you were engineers and moonlighting, making videos,

00:34:28 and now you're running a hundred person

00:34:31 plus Burbank media studio.

00:34:34 How do you make that jump, both like lifestyle wise,

00:34:37 from moonlighting to moguls?

00:34:38 How do you get into that?

00:34:40 Teach yourself to build that.

00:34:42 - Write that down, moonlighting.

00:34:43 - Moonlighting to moguls.

00:34:45 - You can sell that too.

00:34:46 - I think that it's been so iterative, right?

00:34:51 Thankfully, there wasn't one moment,

00:34:54 one viral moment or one video that was the thing

00:34:57 that suddenly brought us into people's consciousness.

00:35:00 It was, we would have something that would sort of ping

00:35:04 and hit a little bit, and then we would,

00:35:06 and it wasn't always the same thing.

00:35:08 It was a different genre, right?

00:35:09 You know, in the early days, it was the music videos,

00:35:12 and then it was the sketches,

00:35:14 and then we did local commercials that got a lot of traction

00:35:18 and actually is the reason that we moved out of California

00:35:20 was to make a television show around that.

00:35:21 And then we started doing "Good Mythical Morning."

00:35:24 And little by little, it's been hiring people.

00:35:28 We're like, we have an idea and we're like,

00:35:29 "Well, we need help in order to do that."

00:35:31 And so you hire the team to do that.

00:35:33 And then you're just like, "Well, now we need to add this on.

00:35:36 Well, let's hire the team to do that."

00:35:37 And the next thing you know, you've got this,

00:35:40 you're a corporation, right?

00:35:42 And you find yourself never really

00:35:44 having called yourself a CEO,

00:35:45 realizing that you're these co-CEOs of this company,

00:35:48 and yet you wanna be a creator,

00:35:50 but you realize you've gotta lead this team

00:35:52 at the same time.

00:35:53 You've gotta delegate responsibility,

00:35:54 you've gotta find the right people to do the right things.

00:35:56 So I just think that there are times that we sit back

00:35:59 and you might walk into the studio and be like,

00:36:02 "Ah, I think that must be one of the new interns.

00:36:05 I should probably introduce myself, right?

00:36:07 How many weeks have they been here?

00:36:10 I feel bad that I haven't introduced myself yet."

00:36:13 But that's a sign that we've got-

00:36:14 - You should.

00:36:15 They're all great and I know them very well.

00:36:17 - We've got a great team that's created

00:36:19 this incredible mythical machine

00:36:23 that we can actually take a step back,

00:36:25 focus on creating at the same time.

00:36:28 But it wasn't an overnight thing.

00:36:30 It was so iterative and building it piece by piece

00:36:34 that there was never this moment where it was like,

00:36:36 "Oh, things are different."

00:36:37 Yet looking back retrospectively, it's different.

00:36:40 - And I think the main key is listening to our audience.

00:36:44 They told us what was valuable to them.

00:36:48 And we began to realize what mythical represented

00:36:51 in their lives after they did, in a lot of ways.

00:36:54 We started to realize that mythical is a place

00:36:57 where comedy and curiosity create meaningful community,

00:37:02 a place where they feel like they belong.

00:37:05 They know us, they trust us.

00:37:06 They're a part of our friend group.

00:37:10 That's something we learned from them.

00:37:12 So it's not something, so we didn't cash in.

00:37:14 We just, we built around it together.

00:37:19 - And talking about building and community,

00:37:22 you're with the many lines of business,

00:37:25 but you're also investing in the space,

00:37:29 in creators and studios.

00:37:30 Tell me about how that,

00:37:32 how your investment division came up

00:37:35 and what is like, what's the latest, what's going on?

00:37:37 - We launched a program called

00:37:38 the Mythical Creator Accelerator,

00:37:41 where we invest in up and coming creators

00:37:44 that meet certain criteria.

00:37:46 We own a piece of their business,

00:37:49 and then we work alongside them to help them grow that.

00:37:52 Learning from everything that we built at Mythical,

00:37:57 now kind of giving them everything in our toolkit.

00:38:02 - We wanted to invest.

00:38:02 Yeah, we've been successful.

00:38:04 We've got, we've had great profits at Mythical,

00:38:09 and we wanted to be wise with that

00:38:11 and reinvest in the ideas that we had,

00:38:13 but also we're like, why not invest in the industry

00:38:15 that you understand the best, which is the creator economy?

00:38:19 And seeing that there are so many creators out there

00:38:23 who are embarking on their career,

00:38:25 and they're starting out,

00:38:26 and they're about to answer this long list of questions

00:38:31 and to cross all these bridges

00:38:33 to try to create a brand for themselves.

00:38:35 And these are all questions that we've answered

00:38:37 and all bridges that we've crossed

00:38:39 over the past decade plus.

00:38:40 - And we didn't have anybody to emulate

00:38:42 when we were doing it.

00:38:42 - So, hey, we've got this playbook

00:38:45 that we can just offer to a creator

00:38:48 and also make a great financial investment.

00:38:50 So by giving them some cash to get some equity back,

00:38:55 they can begin to build out a team.

00:38:57 They can begin to take those steps

00:38:59 to build a brand around themselves.

00:39:00 And then we can watch that grow

00:39:02 and benefit from it as well.

00:39:03 - And not burn out in the process.

00:39:06 Do you reach out to them?

00:39:07 Do they apply to you?

00:39:09 Are you looking to have a diverse portfolio?

00:39:12 Like, oh, this person's big on this platform.

00:39:14 This person is into food.

00:39:15 This person's a comedian.

00:39:16 This person is into education.

00:39:18 Like, how do you build that portfolio of personalities?

00:39:22 - It's all outbound right now, right?

00:39:23 So we're looking at, we're constantly evaluating creators

00:39:28 and reaching out to people who,

00:39:31 we wanna make sure that they've already demonstrated

00:39:35 that they can build an audience on their own.

00:39:36 Like, they've got something that people are attracted to.

00:39:39 And then once we sit down and talk to them,

00:39:40 we find out, hey, do you want to build something

00:39:43 bigger than yourself?

00:39:43 Do you need a team?

00:39:45 Do you have these needs to build something around yourself?

00:39:49 Or do you just wanna keep being a creator and just do,

00:39:52 a lot of creators will be like,

00:39:53 I wanna keep doing the editing.

00:39:54 This part, I find joy in that.

00:39:56 I wanna keep this thing small.

00:39:57 We're like, okay, well,

00:39:58 this is probably not a great partnership.

00:40:00 But if you wanna build a team and you wanna build a brand,

00:40:03 maybe build a legacy that at one point,

00:40:05 maybe in the future, you could step back

00:40:07 and it still would exist beyond you,

00:40:09 then we know how to do that.

00:40:10 - And we're looking to diversify

00:40:12 across a number of verticals.

00:40:14 I mean, we started in musical comedy

00:40:17 and we moved to commentary and now to home decor design.

00:40:22 - How many followers and fans do you have right now?

00:40:25 Across the whole, across the landscape?

00:40:28 - That's a good question.

00:40:29 We entrust that to other people

00:40:31 so that we can stay focused on the right things.

00:40:34 So, and you know, a zillion, man.

00:40:36 We got a zillion people.

00:40:39 - The massive influential platform.

00:40:40 When brands come to collaborate,

00:40:43 how do you decide that this is a,

00:40:46 this brand fits with our brand?

00:40:47 What do you look for in doing these deals

00:40:50 with outside companies to pitch cross promote union?

00:40:54 - In a lot of ways, it works itself out

00:40:56 because a brand will take a look at our audience,

00:40:59 our demographic and who we reach,

00:41:01 which incidentally is very broad, right?

00:41:04 I mean, I would say that, you know, 18 to 34

00:41:06 is kind of our bread and butter,

00:41:08 but we have people younger than that

00:41:09 and we have a lot of people older than that.

00:41:11 So very, very broad audience.

00:41:12 When we meet, you know, you meet a family,

00:41:14 you know, when you're out and about and you're like,

00:41:17 I don't know if the teenage son or the dad

00:41:20 or the mom is a bigger fan.

00:41:22 So I think we might do something that,

00:41:25 oh, well this product appeals to dads like us

00:41:27 or this product, this is more of like, you know,

00:41:30 teens getting started out who need a checking account

00:41:32 or something like that.

00:41:34 So I think that we're not gonna do a brand,

00:41:36 and not work with a brand that we don't believe in

00:41:39 or we think is doing something unethical

00:41:41 or doesn't make sense in terms of this is a product

00:41:44 or a service that our fans could use,

00:41:46 but because the content, we have so much content,

00:41:49 we have so many opportunities for integrations

00:41:52 and we have such a broad audience

00:41:53 that actually we find ways to work

00:41:56 with a lot of different brands

00:41:57 and we actually like to use a brand's identity

00:42:01 and their message as inspiration for creative times.

00:42:05 What is the secret of building a massive loyal audience?

00:42:09 I really do think it's listening to them

00:42:13 and understanding what benefit they're receiving.

00:42:18 You know, I mean, the letters,

00:42:20 I mean, as old school as it sounds,

00:42:22 even the letters, someone who takes the time

00:42:24 to write a letter about how they were in the hospital

00:42:29 going through a certain type of treatment

00:42:30 and the constant daily release on our show,

00:42:35 well, that sounded weird.

00:42:39 Constant daily release on our show?

00:42:42 You said it though.

00:42:43 The fact that they could watch

00:42:45 Good Mythical Morning every day,

00:42:46 it became comfort viewing for them.

00:42:48 So we started to realize, oh,

00:42:50 this is a service we're providing.

00:42:52 This is a way that our friendship connects with people.

00:42:55 And I think there's a balance

00:42:56 between the listening to the audience

00:43:00 and the innovating and doing the thing

00:43:03 that you wanted to do as an original creator, right?

00:43:06 So you have to do something that is true to your vision

00:43:09 and make the kind of content

00:43:11 that you wish somebody else would have made.

00:43:13 And then once an audience begins to connect with it,

00:43:17 they're gonna be, you know,

00:43:19 essentially our network executive is our audience.

00:43:23 And so when you make a television show,

00:43:25 which we've done a few of those,

00:43:27 and honestly, it's not as great of a process

00:43:29 as just making content for an audience.

00:43:31 But in the way that you take into account

00:43:35 their notes and their POV,

00:43:38 I think that we do that with our audience.

00:43:40 And so you're not just creating in a vacuum.

00:43:42 You are creating for this audience

00:43:43 that's giving you constant feedback.

00:43:45 But the starting point is not anticipating what they want,

00:43:48 but making the thing that you wanna make

00:43:50 and then letting them shape it.

00:43:52 And I think finding that balance as a creator

00:43:55 is a way to have a loyal audience

00:43:58 that doesn't feel like you're just,

00:43:59 say they're doing exactly what they want.

00:44:01 You're surprising them.

00:44:03 You're creating new things,

00:44:04 but there's a conversation

00:44:06 that they feel like they're a part of.

00:44:08 - You mentioned before,

00:44:09 I wanna flip it on the brand side,

00:44:10 from the brand perspective.

00:44:12 And you mentioned that, you know,

00:44:13 you have a very broad audience base, which is great.

00:44:17 A lot of creators have very specific niches.

00:44:20 If an outside company, an outside brand,

00:44:24 what must they think about

00:44:26 before partnering with a specific creator

00:44:28 in terms of authenticity, right match?

00:44:32 Like what should these companies be thinking

00:44:33 before they write a big check to a creator

00:44:35 to, you know, vouch for their brands?

00:44:37 - I think that a big part of it

00:44:38 is a brand wants to know that

00:44:42 whatever the content is,

00:44:43 whatever the integration is,

00:44:45 makes them look better, right?

00:44:47 Which frankly is not the easiest thing

00:44:51 to navigate with the creator economy, right?

00:44:53 You're not dealing with networks and companies.

00:44:58 You're dealing with individuals

00:45:00 that might be going through

00:45:01 like a mental health crisis, right?

00:45:03 And they may decide that,

00:45:04 well, I can't even make the video

00:45:05 that you wanted me to make.

00:45:08 And so I think that it's a difficult thing to navigate.

00:45:11 I think the way that we've set it up at Mythical

00:45:15 is you are dealing with a brand,

00:45:18 you're dealing with a team,

00:45:19 you're dealing with a show that has a schedule.

00:45:22 It's a reliable machine that you can,

00:45:25 you're not gonna be embarrassed

00:45:27 by the way that the content is integrated.

00:45:29 You're gonna get exactly what you paid for.

00:45:32 But I think that that's what, you know,

00:45:34 does the audience make sense for the brand?

00:45:37 And is the content gonna be something

00:45:38 that they're happy to be associated with?

00:45:40 - How do you balance serving your fans

00:45:43 and delivering what they want

00:45:44 but then also serving your business

00:45:46 and what the money side means?

00:45:48 How do you work out that balance?

00:45:51 - We've always talked about how brands enable us

00:45:55 to elevate our content and our audience's experience.

00:45:59 So we would create spaces,

00:46:03 whether that's on our podcast

00:46:04 or within the integration itself or in an interview

00:46:08 to take the opportunity to educate our audience

00:46:12 that this is a win-win.

00:46:14 So I think that's part of it.

00:46:16 - I think another part of it is, you know,

00:46:18 when you move beyond integration

00:46:19 is to the things that we actually sell to our audience.

00:46:22 And like I said earlier, you know,

00:46:24 we sell a lot of things to our audience,

00:46:26 all these SKUs, and then we've got our Mythical Society

00:46:29 where people are paying a monthly fee

00:46:30 to be a part of this community that gets exclusive content.

00:46:35 They get exclusive collectible items

00:46:38 that come out every quarter

00:46:39 and access to a lot of different things.

00:46:41 For us, we're trying to make sure that every touch point

00:46:46 where a fan can spend money,

00:46:49 they're actually receiving something

00:46:51 of real value to them, right?

00:46:53 We won't ever get close to doing something

00:46:56 that is some like exploiting our audience

00:46:59 for a quick buck, right?

00:47:00 'Cause we know that, hey, next year,

00:47:02 we're gonna be coming back to you

00:47:04 with another thing that we're offering.

00:47:06 And your experience this year

00:47:08 is gonna determine your likelihood

00:47:09 to pay for another experience next year.

00:47:12 And that's why we haven't, for example,

00:47:14 jumped on the crypto bandwagon, you know?

00:47:17 When that was really starting to take off,

00:47:20 there were just so many ideas,

00:47:22 but it wasn't clear to us what the value

00:47:26 to our audience was.

00:47:27 So we said, you know what?

00:47:28 We don't need to be on the front lines of this.

00:47:31 And we can learn and make a calculated decision

00:47:34 on their behalf down the road.

00:47:35 We like to wait, actually, you know?

00:47:37 Even, there was an initial wave of creators writing books.

00:47:41 A lot of them were really bad, right?

00:47:43 But they sold well.

00:47:45 - Yeah.

00:47:46 - Because the audience was like,

00:47:46 oh, I get a book from this creator.

00:47:48 We sat back and we like to watch the first wave

00:47:51 of something and see what lessons we can learn.

00:47:53 And then we say, okay, well, when we entered this space,

00:47:56 when we publish our first book,

00:47:58 which was the Book of Mythicality,

00:47:59 which I don't even know what year that was now,

00:48:01 we want that to be something that when people take it,

00:48:06 open it up and hold it in their hands,

00:48:08 it feels valuable, right?

00:48:10 It feels like it actually captures

00:48:11 what we were trying to put on the page.

00:48:13 And it's something they can experience

00:48:15 and feel the value of.

00:48:18 And so I think that that's what we do.

00:48:21 We try to be very sensitive to ever saying yes

00:48:24 to something that is very clearly just finding a way

00:48:27 to make money from your audience.

00:48:29 - Is there one dream person that you could collaborate with?

00:48:34 - We really wanna work with Lionel Richie.

00:48:36 I mean, and here's the thing, he knows this.

00:48:40 Let me tell you the things that we have done, right?

00:48:44 So back in college, we did Project Lionel,

00:48:47 where we got everyone who came into our dorm room

00:48:49 for a year to sit down on our couch

00:48:51 and do the Lionel pose from his self-titled album

00:48:54 right under the fold-out album right above our couch.

00:48:59 - This is an old, this is a dream.

00:49:00 - Yeah, but then we've done Project Lionel on tour before,

00:49:04 where we get people up there

00:49:05 and we grade their Lionel pose.

00:49:08 We've done--

00:49:09 - Every guest that comes on Good Mythical Morning

00:49:11 does the Lionel pose on our couch.

00:49:13 - Oh, you wanna do it right now?

00:49:14 - This is too short of a couch.

00:49:15 - Just get up. - I'll do it.

00:49:16 - I can do it.

00:49:17 Stand behind the couch.

00:49:18 - Do the pose, you can be the poster in the back.

00:49:20 - Because, yeah, in our dorm room,

00:49:21 the album was on the wall, and then said,

00:49:24 hey, I wanna have a record of you being,

00:49:27 and then, so the foot comes up under here.

00:49:31 I need to have on white pants.

00:49:32 - Yes, next shoot.

00:49:33 - And then, okay, and then the thumbs have to touch.

00:49:37 This has to be a right angle.

00:49:39 And then it's just one of these.

00:49:42 - And then, Lionel--

00:49:45 - This is Lionel, Lionel, your official invite

00:49:46 to your board meeting.

00:49:47 - Well, no, listen, listen, he's been invited.

00:49:48 - Lionel, come on.

00:49:50 - In fact, let me tell you right now.

00:49:51 - Come on, Lionel.

00:49:52 - Lionel is friends with Sugar Ray Leonard,

00:49:54 and Sugar Ray was on the show,

00:49:55 and saw all the Lionel poses, and was like,

00:49:58 I'm gonna text Lionel right now.

00:49:59 He's sitting there texting Lionel, and then we sang--

00:50:03 - He's playing hard to get.

00:50:04 - We sang "All Night Long," Lionel's famous song,

00:50:07 "All Night Long," literally all night long, for 11 hours.

00:50:10 We sang that song and recorded ourselves singing that song.

00:50:13 And, I don't know, apparently he's too busy.

00:50:16 So Lionel Richie, that's my--

00:50:18 - That's my dream collaboration.

00:50:19 I guess I'll have to ask why.

00:50:20 You definitely showed me why.

00:50:22 I mean, you guys mentioned legacy before.

00:50:24 What is the legacy of Rhett and Link,

00:50:27 and everything, and Mythical,

00:50:28 and everything you've put together?

00:50:29 What is your dream for this?

00:50:31 - What we call mythicality, which is, as Link stated,

00:50:34 it's this curiosity and creativity that builds community.

00:50:39 We wanna have a community of people

00:50:41 who have gathered around these things that we've created,

00:50:45 and kind of created their own momentum.

00:50:47 And we've got other people at Mythical

00:50:50 who are creating their own content

00:50:51 that we may have been involved in the initial stages,

00:50:54 but we've got Mythical Kitchen,

00:50:57 and they've got their Mythical Kitchen universe

00:51:00 that they are developing, and they've got their own fans.

00:51:03 I just think that this mythical enterprise

00:51:08 that we have started, where people are making content

00:51:11 that is true to themselves,

00:51:12 that is building this community around itself,

00:51:17 we would just like to believe

00:51:20 that that could live on beyond us,

00:51:23 and inspire other creators to make content

00:51:26 that is true to themselves,

00:51:27 but also gathers a community around it.

00:51:31 - Yeah, I would say, I think our legacy

00:51:34 is the power of friendship.

00:51:36 I think that it brings comfort,

00:51:41 and there's few things more powerful

00:51:45 than a good-hearted laugh shared with friends.

00:51:49 And that's the energy that we're putting out into the world,

00:51:52 and I'm proud of it.

00:51:54 - This Rhett and Link Corporation

00:51:56 has been going on since first grade, and through college.

00:51:59 You guys are roommates in college too.

00:52:01 With all those years together,

00:52:03 and running this company that's ballooned

00:52:05 into a 100-person studio, how do you get along?

00:52:10 How do you roll through disputes, disagreements,

00:52:14 differences of creative opinion, business opinion?

00:52:16 How has that worked out for you?

00:52:18 - 30-- - Mud wrestling.

00:52:19 - Mud wrestling? - Yeah.

00:52:21 38 years of friendship is a long time.

00:52:24 And yeah, when you build your whole company

00:52:26 and your brand around that,

00:52:29 we've learned that you gotta invest in the relationship.

00:52:32 - Did you skip here?

00:52:33 'Cause I've been friends with you for 39 years.

00:52:35 - Oh, really?

00:52:36 Yeah, it took-- - It might just stop.

00:52:37 - It took you a little bit longer.

00:52:38 - It might just stop.

00:52:39 It might just stop longer.

00:52:40 (laughing)

00:52:42 - Stay out of this.

00:52:44 - Yeah, we are committed to community,

00:52:51 communicating through our issues, right?

00:52:56 And there are issues.

00:52:57 You know, we have creative differences.

00:52:59 We get on each other's nerves.

00:53:00 When you work in the same office with someone--

00:53:04 - That hurts my feelings.

00:53:05 - For however many years it's been.

00:53:07 I mean, originally our desks were facing each other,

00:53:10 and then they were side by side,

00:53:11 and now they're on opposite sides of the office,

00:53:13 facing away, which--

00:53:14 - They're still in the same room.

00:53:15 - But we haven't separated yet.

00:53:17 I think it's constant communication, right?

00:53:20 It's we don't ever let,

00:53:22 I mean, sometimes it'll be like,

00:53:24 okay, maybe a couple weeks have gone by,

00:53:26 and we haven't aired something out

00:53:27 that needs to be aired out.

00:53:29 But I think there's just a commitment to the friendship.

00:53:32 If the friendship is the core of our business, right?

00:53:37 And so if it becomes too much about the business partnership

00:53:41 and not enough about the friendship,

00:53:43 then it can begin to kind of crumble from the inside.

00:53:46 So I think that there's just attention paid

00:53:47 to the communication and making sure

00:53:50 that we talk through our difficulties

00:53:55 and our challenges in the same way

00:53:56 that you would do in any relationship.

00:53:59 - Yeah, I love this guy no matter what,

00:54:01 but he better not test me on it.

00:54:04 - What do you mean, test you?

00:54:06 - I don't know, the things that you can do.

00:54:10 - You mean like run to the edge of like a--

00:54:14 - Of our relationship.

00:54:15 - Of a canyon and then be like,

00:54:16 I'm about to jump, are you gonna catch me?

00:54:18 - What advice would you give folks

00:54:22 looking to get into the creator game right now

00:54:24 or people just starting out?

00:54:26 - I think you have to learn how to do two things.

00:54:29 You have to learn how to trust others with the right things

00:54:33 and trust yourself with the right things.

00:54:35 And you can't lean too heavily in either direction, right?

00:54:40 If you only trust yourself,

00:54:42 you're going to burn out very, very quickly.

00:54:44 If you only trust others--

00:54:47 - I know, they get it.

00:54:48 Don't tell them too much.

00:54:49 I don't want to make any more confidence.

00:54:50 - Okay, all right, yeah.

00:54:52 It's about trust.

00:54:52 - I feel like anybody I talk to who does this kind of job

00:54:56 is anxious and if they're not, they're sociopaths.

00:54:59 (laughing)

00:55:00 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:02 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:03 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:04 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:06 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:07 Top of the morning to you.

00:55:08 Top of the morning to you laddies.

00:55:09 (upbeat music)

00:55:12 (upbeat music)

00:55:14 - I'm Sean McLachlan.

00:55:19 I go by Jacksepticeye online and I make YouTube videos.

00:55:22 It's kind of a mixed bag.

00:55:24 I started off playing video games on my channel

00:55:27 and just reacting to those and it blew up out of nowhere

00:55:31 and then I just kind of branched off

00:55:33 and now I do everything.

00:55:35 I just react to content.

00:55:37 I do games.

00:55:37 I do sketch comedy.

00:55:39 I've made short films.

00:55:40 I've done interactive media.

00:55:42 So for now it's kind of like whatever's creative

00:55:44 and whatever's fun.

00:55:45 I don't really tie myself to one genre anymore.

00:55:49 Yeah, I started kind of very, very end of 2012.

00:55:53 My plan initially was to do imitations

00:55:56 or like impersonations and then do content around that

00:55:59 and kind of be that character and then I did it once

00:56:02 and was like, this is terrible.

00:56:03 I shouldn't upload this.

00:56:04 So I was just watching a lot of people

00:56:08 who would play games and kind of react to them

00:56:10 and have fun that way and I thought that that was really cool.

00:56:13 I just tried it out for myself to see if it would work

00:56:16 and I really liked the sort of editing process

00:56:18 and kind of curating it and getting in.

00:56:20 Okay, what's my idea?

00:56:21 What's my line to go through?

00:56:23 And obviously it's all pretty bad when you start off

00:56:25 but it was kind of fun to have a project to do every day

00:56:29 and I was kind of aimless in my life at that time.

00:56:32 So I was like, I need something to kind of like

00:56:34 attach myself to.

00:56:35 As I got better at it, more people started watching it,

00:56:37 kind of snowballed really quickly.

00:56:40 And then, I don't know, I was kind of in it

00:56:42 before I realized I was in it.

00:56:43 I didn't really have any time to think about it

00:56:46 or overthink.

00:56:47 March, May, I kind of set myself right.

00:56:51 I'll hit 1,000 subscribers before I go back to college

00:56:54 in September and it's mid-July right now

00:56:58 and we already hit that goal.

00:57:00 Just hit 2,000 subscribers on YouTube.

00:57:03 Can you believe it?

00:57:04 We just hit 400,000 subscribers.

00:57:07 I can't believe I'm here sitting doing another

00:57:09 subscriber milestone video two weeks after hitting 600,000.

00:57:13 The channel is now at 700,000 subscribers.

00:57:16 Congrats on getting the channel to 3 million subscribers.

00:57:19 As of right now, the channel stands at

00:57:21 four million people strong.

00:57:23 Thank you guys so much for 11 million subscribers.

00:57:26 Here is the one trick that I used to get

00:57:30 25 million subscribers on YouTube.

00:57:33 And you can do it too.

00:57:34 All right, are you listening?

00:57:35 Get closer.

00:57:37 I have no idea.

00:57:39 I was in college at the time and when I finally

00:57:40 started making a decent living off of it,

00:57:45 I started to earn enough to pay rent

00:57:47 and pay for amenities every month.

00:57:50 And I was able to rent a place on my own.

00:57:52 I really started to be like, oh God, this is my job now.

00:57:55 I don't actually have to find work

00:57:58 and actually do this full time.

00:58:00 And I think that that was the big moment where I was like,

00:58:02 okay, I don't know how long this will last.

00:58:04 It could all fall apart in the morning

00:58:06 'cause it's so volatile.

00:58:07 It can go either way.

00:58:08 And especially at those lower numbers,

00:58:10 I didn't really know what was gonna happen.

00:58:12 I think people think it's easy

00:58:15 'cause when you sit down and you play games.

00:58:17 But I think there's so much more to it

00:58:18 'cause when I started off, I'm like,

00:58:20 I edit, I Photoshop, I record all this stuff.

00:58:23 I do it multiple times a day.

00:58:25 I did it five and a half years without skipping a beat twice

00:58:28 every single day at the exact same time.

00:58:31 And I think that sheer amount of effort that goes into it,

00:58:34 like it is really, really hard work.

00:58:36 But also comes the emotional side of it,

00:58:39 which is a lot of anxiety and a lot of stress

00:58:41 and trying not, you're like, there's no training for it.

00:58:44 You kind of, you're your own brand.

00:58:46 If it grows quick and big like mine did,

00:58:48 you kind of have to navigate that yourself

00:58:50 and hope that you're dealing with it properly.

00:58:52 And early on I wasn't 'cause there was a lot of like,

00:58:55 like stuff that I had to work out about burnout

00:58:57 and trying not to overwork myself.

00:58:59 And there's no one telling you

00:59:01 like to pull yourself back a little bit.

00:59:02 I've always been quite a social person.

00:59:04 I like hanging out with people

00:59:06 and I like talking with friends and playing games together.

00:59:09 And I think when I was growing up in Ireland,

00:59:10 there wasn't a whole lot of people

00:59:11 that thought the same way I did

00:59:13 and didn't play games the same way I did.

00:59:15 And I thought it was some sort of a weirdo that,

00:59:17 why am I playing games for so much time?

00:59:19 So when I was online, there was more people that did that.

00:59:21 And when you meet other YouTubers who are doing the same job,

00:59:23 they all kind of get you

00:59:24 and there's like an unspoken bond between you.

00:59:27 Kind of like, yeah, say your truth, I get you.

00:59:30 (upbeat music)

00:59:33 I would love to be that guy.

00:59:35 I'd love to be like, I wake up 6 a.m. every morning,

00:59:38 I meditate, I get my coffee in,

00:59:41 I drink my top of the morning

00:59:43 and I just, I comb my hair a thousand times

00:59:46 and I just read my mantra to myself

00:59:48 and then write down all my ideas

00:59:50 and every one of them is great.

00:59:51 So I have to just pick, but I'm not, I'm just like,

00:59:55 I don't know, I didn't sleep well, my back hurts.

00:59:57 And then I just roll into it.

01:00:00 It's surprising that it's worked for as long as it has

01:00:02 'cause I keep waiting for it to not work,

01:00:04 but people still watch and I have that like imposter syndrome

01:00:07 where I'm like, they're gonna find out eventually

01:00:09 that I don't know what I'm doing.

01:00:11 I'm in a fortunate position where if I attempt to do anything

01:00:16 I already have a built-in audience for it,

01:00:18 which is what most new companies are trying to get,

01:00:21 is how do we spread this to as many people as possible?

01:00:24 And I'm just lucky enough, I have a platform.

01:00:26 I try not to take on the things

01:00:27 that I'm not really excited about.

01:00:29 And I think if I have a passion for it

01:00:30 and I'm excited about it and I really wanna do it,

01:00:32 I think that shows a lot

01:00:34 and people kind of follow along in the journey

01:00:36 and it's kind of fun for them.

01:00:37 And I think that's what people react to

01:00:40 'cause they can tell that it's kind of coming

01:00:42 from a good, decent place

01:00:43 and you're not trying to just pull the wool over the rise

01:00:45 and kind of like sell a product to them.

01:00:47 - But it's finally time to announce Cloak,

01:00:50 which is a clothing company and a clothing brand

01:00:53 that Mark and I have come together to try and create.

01:00:56 - Me and my friend Mark, or Markiplier,

01:00:58 as he's known on the internet,

01:00:59 we came up with that idea together to,

01:01:03 'cause we've done merch before

01:01:04 and kind of like put our faces on stuff,

01:01:07 but we were like,

01:01:07 what would it be like if we went that extra step further

01:01:10 and we kind of created something that had its own identity?

01:01:13 And I think both of us kind of have

01:01:15 an interesting clothing and fashion and that sort of world

01:01:19 and how can like, we put our spin on it,

01:01:21 how can we add our voice to it and kind of like make it fun?

01:01:24 And it was just, it was something really creative

01:01:27 and fun to do and I think both of our strengths

01:01:30 kind of play to that aspect

01:01:31 when we kind of like get in a room together

01:01:32 and we bash out ideas together.

01:01:33 We've done some cool, fun stuff with it

01:01:35 and people have responded really well to it

01:01:38 and the clothing is really high quality

01:01:40 and we try and make it actually like really decent stuff

01:01:42 for people to be able to get.

01:01:44 I personally never want to do that thing

01:01:46 where I'm just kind of like selling something

01:01:47 and then never think about it again.

01:01:49 And I think Mark is the same way

01:01:51 where we were both sort of proud to put our names on it

01:01:54 and kind of work on stuff together.

01:01:56 Especially with YouTuber starting brands,

01:01:58 there's a sort of misconception about it sometimes

01:02:02 and I, we legitimately just wanted to make

01:02:04 really, really good coffee that you could drink

01:02:06 day after day.

01:02:07 (upbeat music)

01:02:10 I made my own coffee company, my own coffee brand

01:02:21 and it is called Top of the Morning Coffee.

01:02:24 I was just sitting down, I was like,

01:02:25 I like coffee so much.

01:02:27 And I'm like, can I make a coffee brand?

01:02:29 I was like, I don't know if I can.

01:02:30 Like, is that something that I'm even able to do?

01:02:32 Do we know people that can make that happen?

01:02:34 And then I thought of the name Top of the Morning Coffee

01:02:36 and I was like, oh, now we have to do it.

01:02:38 That name's way too good not to do.

01:02:40 And the more we did it, the more I was like,

01:02:42 oh, we could do something actually really cool with this

01:02:45 and have fun with it.

01:02:46 And it was, the more I got into it

01:02:49 and understood how everything worked,

01:02:50 the more potential I saw in it

01:02:52 and I thought it was really cool.

01:02:53 So then I just kind of ran with it

01:02:56 and I was like, if this fails, it'll be,

01:02:59 at least it's like a cool thing to kind of experience

01:03:01 and get into.

01:03:01 But we tried really hard to make it

01:03:04 like a cool identifiable brand and got really into it.

01:03:07 But I think the more we did it,

01:03:09 we started to realize like,

01:03:10 there's not much of my personality in the branding

01:03:14 and I'm quite like an energetic, lively person

01:03:17 and try and be positive about a lot of things.

01:03:19 So we re-branded it.

01:03:20 We kind of looked at it and stood back

01:03:22 and we're like, okay, it kind of looks like

01:03:24 other coffee brands, but we wanted to stand out on its own.

01:03:27 And that's why we came up with like the yellow bags

01:03:29 and the new logo to kind of like be a bit punchier

01:03:31 and our mascots, like a sun character.

01:03:34 So we were like, what if the bag looks like a ray of sun

01:03:36 sitting on your shelf?

01:03:37 And the more we talked about it,

01:03:39 we sat down with an agency

01:03:40 and they kind of like asked me a whole bunch of questions

01:03:42 and they were like, oh, so you're all about this.

01:03:46 And it was all about like absurd positivity.

01:03:48 And I think they captured that quite well.

01:03:51 I don't pretend to be like a business mogul

01:03:53 where I'm going out and trying to be like a billionaire

01:03:56 or anything like that.

01:03:57 I just try and make fun things that people can react to

01:04:02 and kind of have like an emotional attachment to as well,

01:04:05 instead of it just being like, yeah, I buy it

01:04:06 'cause it tastes good.

01:04:07 Like it's so much more than that.

01:04:09 It's kind of like an experience

01:04:10 and a lifestyle for people at this point.

01:04:12 I wanna do it all, baby.

01:04:21 No, I have tons of ideas.

01:04:23 I wanna like make comic books.

01:04:26 I wanna do narrative podcasts.

01:04:28 I have like movie ideas.

01:04:30 I have TV show ideas.

01:04:32 I wanna do more voice acting.

01:04:33 I wanna do more like mainline acting

01:04:36 'cause I'm in a very fortunate position

01:04:37 that I get to like put my fingers in a lot of pies.

01:04:39 I get to try out a lot of different things

01:04:42 that a lot of people can't.

01:04:43 So I don't wanna take that for granted

01:04:44 and I wanna take advantage of it wherever I can.

01:04:47 I think anybody that wants to be a creator should try.

01:04:51 It certainly afforded me a lot of great things in my life

01:04:54 and all the people I know and the person that I am today

01:04:56 is all because of that kind of stuff.

01:04:58 So I'm not gonna say don't try it.

01:05:00 I think it's really cool.

01:05:01 There's not one way of doing it.

01:05:03 There's a million different ways to do it

01:05:04 and people are really clever and really funny.

01:05:07 And I think if they get to show the world that

01:05:09 in a short form or a long form or on Instagram, on Twitter,

01:05:13 wherever you wanna do it, I think that's cool.

01:05:15 - Dylan, thank you so much for being here today.

01:05:20 - Thank you.

01:05:21 Hi Forbes, this is amazing.

01:05:23 - So tell me about what inspired

01:05:25 your Days of Girlhood videos.

01:05:27 And for everyone who doesn't know,

01:05:28 can you please explain what they are

01:05:29 and what they turned into?

01:05:30 - Sure.

01:05:31 Days of Girlhood was sort of a video series that I started

01:05:36 because I was at the beginning of my transition

01:05:38 and I was looking to all these iconic trans women,

01:05:41 but not knowing how to get from point A to point B.

01:05:45 And I thought, okay, well, why not, you know,

01:05:47 take my followers along on this journey?

01:05:50 And it was originally supposed to just sort of

01:05:52 be like comedy.

01:05:53 It was supposed to be lighthearted and fun.

01:05:55 And I think over this last year,

01:05:57 I found a lot of vulnerability and depth

01:05:59 that I didn't even know was there.

01:06:02 And it's been really beautiful and also hard at times,

01:06:05 but I don't regret anything.

01:06:07 - As a creative, what's it been like for you to then shift

01:06:11 from that creative mindset into the business side of things,

01:06:15 with sponsored posts and promotions and things like that?

01:06:17 - I think I'm becoming a bit of a business woman.

01:06:20 As much as I love the creative side,

01:06:24 I love getting smarter.

01:06:25 I wanna know everything and I wanna know how it all works.

01:06:28 I'm really interested, not, you know,

01:06:30 of course being in front of the camera,

01:06:31 but I love the idea of producing.

01:06:34 And I just, I think, why not learn it all?

01:06:38 - Now, I think for me and for a lot of people,

01:06:41 because you are so social media forward

01:06:44 and you're so out there,

01:06:45 a lot of people kind of view you as the spokesperson

01:06:48 for the trans community.

01:06:49 Did you set out to do that when you started these videos?

01:06:52 - Oh no, I never wanted or intended to be a spokesperson

01:06:57 for the community.

01:06:58 And I think I just ask for grace as I'm learning

01:07:02 so many things in navigating this, not only transness,

01:07:06 but also this newfound success.

01:07:08 It's happened really fast.

01:07:09 And I think that's what's so crazy about social media

01:07:12 is I think it kind of launches people at a rate

01:07:16 that not a lot of other mainstream media does or can.

01:07:20 And I really am now looking to sort of not take a backseat.

01:07:24 I wanna stay really active in my advocacy work,

01:07:27 but I wanna decide when, where, and how

01:07:31 I'm gonna show up as an activist.

01:07:32 - Switching back to the business a little bit.

01:07:40 - Sure. - What is the one business rule

01:07:42 that you operate by no matter what?

01:07:45 - Oh, I love this.

01:07:46 My agent, Stephanie, she always says, "Don't react, respond."

01:07:50 And so if something happens in my life,

01:07:52 I often will either at least sleep on it,

01:07:55 but sometimes it's taking a few extra days

01:07:58 to really make sure that I'm not coming out of a place

01:08:01 of anger or anxiety or frustration

01:08:04 and that it's purely who I am

01:08:07 and can operate on a really neutral level.

01:08:10 - You were in the spotlight earlier this year

01:08:13 after there was some backlash with the sponsored posts.

01:08:16 Has this experience affected

01:08:18 who you partner with going forward?

01:08:20 - Absolutely.

01:08:21 I now realize that when I work with a brand

01:08:24 that they will forever be a part of my story.

01:08:27 And so I wanna make sure we're on the same page

01:08:30 going forward and I want there to be a mutual respect

01:08:33 and not only for me, but for my community.

01:08:35 - Speaking of that, one stat that I love to bring up

01:08:38 all the time is that the LGBTQ+ community

01:08:40 has nearly $4 trillion in global purchasing power.

01:08:43 - We've got the purchasing power.

01:08:45 - Exactly.

01:08:45 Yet brands are still shying away

01:08:48 from LGBTQ+ representation.

01:08:50 What would you say to brands that are despite this fact?

01:08:53 - I would say, well, that's a disappointment

01:08:55 because we're here and we're not going anywhere.

01:08:57 And I also think that there are brands

01:09:02 that are interested in working with someone like me,

01:09:04 but maybe don't know how to,

01:09:07 or nervous to get involved or ask the wrong thing.

01:09:11 And I say, let's figure it out together.

01:09:13 Let's have these hard conversations

01:09:15 because if we don't,

01:09:16 then something beautiful can't come from it.

01:09:19 (upbeat music)

01:09:22 - What do you want your legacy to be?

01:09:23 - Oh, I think I would like my legacy

01:09:28 to be this sort of idea of like celebrity 2.0.

01:09:33 Like how can we live in the spotlight

01:09:36 and have a large following,

01:09:39 but try to do it in a way that feels like the kindest,

01:09:43 most grounded, fun, silly,

01:09:47 empathetic, vulnerable way possible.

01:09:49 And I don't know if that can exist yet.

01:09:51 I'm still figuring that out.

01:09:53 And I think there's certain circumstances

01:09:57 where I might get pushed back on that,

01:09:58 but I wanna see if we can do it differently.

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01:10:06 (upbeat music)

01:10:18 - Kabi, thank you so much for joining us.

01:10:27 We're thrilled to have you here.

01:10:28 - Thank you too for the invite.

01:10:30 - My first question is, what is the Kabilem brand?

01:10:35 How do you stand out?

01:10:37 - Kabilem brand is composed by a company

01:10:42 that is in charge of management in Italy,

01:10:48 where they deal with all the jobs worldwide.

01:10:53 But I'm only in charge of my own,

01:10:58 which is making videos, dealing with content.

01:11:03 I get a lot of job requests,

01:11:07 but most of the requests I get,

01:11:12 I really refuse a lot of them,

01:11:15 because I always want to be clean for what I bring.

01:11:18 I don't want to bring,

01:11:20 I've never brought alcohol,

01:11:23 and I think I'll never bring it.

01:11:27 I don't bring a cigarette sponsor,

01:11:30 or anything that goes against people,

01:11:35 because I'm followed by a lot of young people,

01:11:39 a lot of people, and it's a big responsibility.

01:11:43 - How did you get started making content?

01:11:45 - I started making videos when I was very, very young,

01:11:50 at least 13 years old, when I started making videos.

01:11:54 My inspiration is Will Smith,

01:11:57 I'm starting to make a video for him.

01:12:01 And seeing the emotions he gave me,

01:12:04 I said, "Wow, I have to make people laugh,

01:12:08 like Will Smith makes me laugh."

01:12:11 I started on YouTube,

01:12:15 I started making a lot of videos,

01:12:17 a lot of videos that practically no one has seen.

01:12:21 I'm there, now forgotten, but it doesn't matter.

01:12:26 After YouTube, COVID arrived,

01:12:32 I lost my job,

01:12:36 and I started making content on TikTok.

01:12:40 I did, it didn't start, it went very well right away.

01:12:45 It took a while.

01:12:49 It's not like I make one, two, one, two video,

01:12:53 and I become famous like this.

01:12:55 It's a lot of work, you need to stay focused,

01:12:59 and look always at new content for your community.

01:13:04 - How do you think about the content you're gonna post?

01:13:11 How do you come up with your ideas for the videos?

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01:14:19 - Which video first made you famous?

01:14:21 Is there one video that really caught on

01:14:24 and got the momentum and speed going with you?

01:14:27 - The video with the banana.

01:14:30 Yeah, the video with the banana.

01:14:33 (speaking in foreign language)

01:14:37 This scene is in my short film.

01:14:46 I make one short film for Tawamila.

01:14:49 I explain this, and I see this video,

01:14:54 and I ask myself, it doesn't have sense.

01:14:59 He cut for five times a banana for open it.

01:15:06 Why he don't just open the banana?

01:15:09 And I go in my room, I put the phone,

01:15:16 and I just open this banana and show it to world

01:15:20 how is it simple open one banana.

01:15:23 - And then what happened after that with your career?

01:15:25 Once that caught on, how did you--

01:15:27 - All the people starting like this,

01:15:31 starting like how all this simple is funny,

01:15:36 and the people starting laughing about my expression,

01:15:43 the situation, and I'm continue to this way.

01:15:48 - You're famous for your expressions.

01:15:52 - Yes.

01:15:53 - How did you, well, first of all,

01:15:55 can you give us a few to the camera

01:15:56 of your famous expressions?

01:15:57 - This is the famous one.

01:16:01 - How did you, did it happen by accident,

01:16:04 or did you develop it, or was it something you always did?

01:16:06 - No, it's just me.

01:16:08 It's just me.

01:16:10 - What is your secret?

01:16:12 So you have 165 million TikTok followers alone.

01:16:17 What is your secret for building such a large fan base?

01:16:21 - For me, my secret is don't care about the follower.

01:16:25 This is the secret.

01:16:28 The secret is make the video in print,

01:16:32 and first make the video with you're happy with this video.

01:16:38 A lot of people, a lot of content creators,

01:16:42 also starting for,

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01:17:29 - Tell me about what is the business of Kaby Lame,

01:17:34 and how do you make money?

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01:18:31 Mission Impossible with Tom Cruise.

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01:19:25 Yeah, I saw the Oppenheimer videos

01:19:27 with you and Matt Damon and Robert Dyer Jr.

01:19:30 How did that come about,

01:19:32 and how did you create those videos?

01:19:34 How did you have the idea about how those skits

01:19:37 would work with those very famous Hollywood stars?

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01:20:16 And you mentioned you would like to do more cinema

01:20:20 and be an actor yourself.

01:20:21 Tell me about that aspiration,

01:20:23 and what do you eventually,

01:20:26 what is the end game for Kaby Lame?

01:20:27 What do you want to be doing in five, 10 years?

01:20:30 What is your goal with your career and your brand?

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01:21:44 You've worked with a lot of big stars recently.

01:21:47 What would be your dream person to collaborate with,

01:21:50 to make content with?

01:21:51 (speaking in foreign language)

01:21:54 But not just one content,

01:21:56 I want one day make one film with Smith.

01:21:59 Comedy, action, drama, a little bit of both?

01:22:01 I think both, yeah.

01:22:07 And you mentioned, besides cinema,

01:22:10 I want to make the world a better place.

01:22:11 What do you want the Kabi Lame legacy to be?

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01:22:47 What advice would you give someone starting out

01:22:50 in the creator world right now?

01:22:52 What tips would you give someone starting out

01:22:54 on TikTok or Instagram or you name it,

01:22:57 just that want to become creative content influencers?

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01:24:41 - Anna Zorkin, AKA Anna Delvey,

01:24:43 is best known as a convicted con artist

01:24:46 who stole some $200,000 from banks,

01:24:49 luxury hotels, and individuals

01:24:51 while pretending to be the heir

01:24:52 to a $67 million trust fund.

01:24:55 Her story was then captured in the Shonda Rhimes-produced

01:24:58 Netflix miniseries, "Inventing Anna."

01:25:00 Zorkin talks to Forbes about life under house arrest,

01:25:03 her lucrative art career,

01:25:05 and the inspiration she takes from Sam Bankman-Fried.

01:25:08 How's it going?

01:25:10 - Well, it's been really busy so far.

01:25:11 I'm really happy and grateful

01:25:13 that I got the opportunity to be out

01:25:15 and I'm not in jail anymore.

01:25:18 But yeah, it's been pretty wild.

01:25:19 - So what does a day in house arrest look like for you?

01:25:23 - Well, so far I've been pretty busy.

01:25:25 So I'm having people over all the time.

01:25:27 And I've done a bunch of shoots,

01:25:29 so usually I'm up pretty early.

01:25:32 I'm either doing an interview

01:25:34 or I'm recording my podcast

01:25:36 or I'm working on my art.

01:25:38 Yeah, so I've been busy so far.

01:25:39 I'm sure I will be talking differently

01:25:41 in two months or three months from now, but so far.

01:25:44 - What do you mean, talking differently?

01:25:45 - Well, I'm sure it's going to get old.

01:25:47 Now I'm excited, I'm out, and I have the phone.

01:25:50 I can get food delivery.

01:25:52 But yeah, it's very restrictive.

01:25:55 I cannot go anywhere at all.

01:25:57 - Why did you decide to stay in New York?

01:26:00 - Well, I just love the city

01:26:02 and I feel like my criminal appeal is still pending,

01:26:04 so I should get a chance to finish that.

01:26:08 Because once you're in Europe, nobody cares.

01:26:10 All that just becomes completely irrelevant.

01:26:12 - If you were to be at a party

01:26:15 and you were to introduce yourself,

01:26:16 what would that introduction be like?

01:26:18 How do you describe yourself?

01:26:20 - Gosh, oh my gosh, I hate that question.

01:26:22 I don't know, I feel like I'm just assuming

01:26:24 people are going to Google me.

01:26:26 - I saw some of your art.

01:26:29 You signed at Ann Adelvie.

01:26:30 Do you go by Ann Adelvie?

01:26:32 - I think so.

01:26:33 That's just people kind of recognize me more,

01:26:36 but there's no real difference.

01:26:39 I think both names are being used equally

01:26:41 from what I'm understanding.

01:26:43 - And to you, there's no difference?

01:26:45 - No, no, I don't have a split personality or anything.

01:26:48 I don't act different.

01:26:50 - You mentioned your art.

01:26:52 Tell us a bit about that.

01:26:53 - I started doing some sketches during my trial

01:26:58 and I kind of continued while I was in prison.

01:27:00 And earlier this year,

01:27:01 I created a little collection of 21 pieces

01:27:05 and I had a little show earlier this year.

01:27:07 And now I'm excited to have new tools

01:27:10 and I'm using canvases

01:27:12 and I had a little party during Miami Basel.

01:27:15 - How much does a work of yours go for?

01:27:18 - I think it's between 15 and 25,000.

01:27:22 It depends on the size of the piece.

01:27:24 - And is that your main source of income?

01:27:26 - Yes, for now.

01:27:28 - Can you share how much you've sold of it?

01:27:30 - Well, I sold quite a lot of prints of my artworks

01:27:33 that I've made earlier this year.

01:27:34 And I'm working on a bunch of other projects.

01:27:38 I'm working on my book, my podcast, my dinner series,

01:27:41 my clothing line, but everything's in a work,

01:27:44 so everything.

01:27:46 I've sold a lot of prints.

01:27:49 We sold, I don't know, over $300,000 worth of prints,

01:27:54 which go for cheaper.

01:27:55 I think they started $250 for a print, for a nine by 12.

01:28:00 And we sold a couple of originals.

01:28:02 I would say around seven, maybe.

01:28:06 I don't know, I'm just like, I'm not the one

01:28:08 who's dealing with it.

01:28:09 - You made a virtual appearance

01:28:12 at Art Basel Miami Beach this year.

01:28:15 I don't know if you know, but one of the top moments

01:28:18 of Art Basel Miami Beach involved this ATM

01:28:22 by an art collective, Mischief,

01:28:25 where if you put in your card,

01:28:28 it would announce the amount of money on your card.

01:28:32 People were moving money from account to account

01:28:36 to either appear higher or to have 420

01:28:40 as their bank account balance.

01:28:42 - I would go the Sandbag Manfred route

01:28:45 down to my last $100.

01:28:47 I'm trying to make my story to be like,

01:28:49 oh, I made a mistake, but I'm trying to turn this around

01:28:53 without trying to glamorize the mistake itself.

01:28:56 It's like, hopefully people will just take

01:29:01 the event of adversity and apply it

01:29:04 to whatever bad thing happened to them

01:29:06 and work from there without going back

01:29:09 and recommitting the bad thing.

01:29:10 - Yeah, yeah.

01:29:12 - Because there were a lot of times

01:29:14 before Netflix thing happened

01:29:16 where I didn't know what was going on.

01:29:18 I didn't know how long I will have to spend in prison.

01:29:21 Yeah, there's just so much uncertainty.

01:29:24 You just never know what's going to happen to you.

01:29:26 It might look glamorous from the outside,

01:29:29 but yeah, there's just so much work that goes in there

01:29:32 and just so much that I have to deal on a daily basis.

01:29:35 - Yeah, and so now,

01:29:38 do you have a better sense of timeline for yourself?

01:29:42 I know that you're fighting deportation.

01:29:44 - Well, I'm a little bit further from deportation

01:29:47 than I was before I got released

01:29:49 because once you get released,

01:29:52 you get transferred to a non-detained docket

01:29:54 as opposed to when you're in jail,

01:29:55 your case is expedited.

01:29:57 But even then, immigration is so,

01:30:00 there's no transparency really.

01:30:05 And the backlog, especially from COVID, is so long.

01:30:08 You never know.

01:30:09 I might get a response next month or not in two years

01:30:13 and nobody really knows.

01:30:14 - And so you would be under house arrest?

01:30:17 - I'm trying to get some of the conditions lifted,

01:30:21 but there's no guarantee I ever will.

01:30:23 So yeah, and that's another thing.

01:30:24 I just never know what's going to happen.

01:30:26 So maybe I'll be successful or maybe not.

01:30:29 - Yeah.

01:30:30 Where do you see yourself in 10 or 20 years?

01:30:33 - Oh God, I don't know.

01:30:35 I'm just trying to take it day by day

01:30:38 and just trying to make the best

01:30:40 out of what I'm working with right now,

01:30:42 but it's really hard to make any plans.

01:30:44 Hopefully I'm working on a project that I like.

01:30:47 - Since you've been under house arrest,

01:30:49 you've kind of wasted no time

01:30:51 in re-entering the public eye through many, many interviews.

01:30:56 This is just one of them.

01:30:58 Why?

01:31:00 - Well, I feel like I'm going to be written about regardless.

01:31:04 People are still going to write that I got released.

01:31:08 There will still be photographers outside my house.

01:31:10 So I may as well turn it into something positive.

01:31:13 And yeah, just kind of channel the attention

01:31:16 towards what I'm working on right now

01:31:18 and try to move away from,

01:31:21 I mean, until now the conversation has been

01:31:22 it's like all crimes, this, that.

01:31:25 So it's been mostly negative.

01:31:26 So if I can use that and yeah,

01:31:29 kind of give attention to the projects I'm working on now.

01:31:34 And also with my dinner series,

01:31:36 I'm trying to involve some social good component to it.

01:31:40 I will be collaborating with some charities

01:31:42 that immigration and criminal justice reform focus.

01:31:45 So yeah, hopefully people will give me a chance.

01:31:49 - Yeah, have you had any difficulties getting sources

01:31:52 or funding for something like this dinner series support?

01:31:56 - No, not really.

01:31:59 I mean, I'm not really looking for funding for that.

01:32:01 So I'm working with a production company

01:32:03 who that will be filmed and with a charity.

01:32:07 I don't know, I have not,

01:32:08 like I have not been to that stage yet.

01:32:10 - Do you have any hesitation

01:32:12 about spreading yourself too thin with all of this?

01:32:16 - Well, I'm lucky.

01:32:17 Like I'm just trying to work with best of the best people.

01:32:19 So it's a lot of it.

01:32:21 It's just kind of, yeah, just getting the best person.

01:32:25 I had to like find it out the hard way

01:32:28 because you're like kind of trying to kind of cut corners

01:32:32 and kind of like be cheap on some people.

01:32:33 It just never works.

01:32:34 It's like, you're just going to end up

01:32:36 like figuratively paying for your choices.

01:32:41 Tenfold later on.

01:32:44 So yes, and it's always a process

01:32:47 and I'm okay if it's like some of it will take longer.

01:32:50 I'm just trying not to,

01:32:51 like I'm getting all kinds of offers.

01:32:53 I'm trying like not to jump on everything.

01:32:55 - And do you have any worries about the financial pressures

01:32:59 of hiring the best of the best?

01:33:01 - Well, obviously we're like discussing

01:33:04 the financials beforehand.

01:33:05 So definitely I'm way more careful now

01:33:09 with kind of like the objects

01:33:12 because I feel like so many people just can't wait

01:33:15 to like for me to just like, oh, Hannah owes me $50.

01:33:18 Like they just can't wait for me to like slip up

01:33:21 and just like, yeah, just like accuse me.

01:33:24 I mean, it's understandable.

01:33:26 So I don't know.

01:33:27 - Yeah.

01:33:28 - I mean, it's good.

01:33:29 - You wrote an essay and you said that you hoped

01:33:31 that by the time "Inventing Anna" came out

01:33:34 you would have moved on with your life

01:33:36 and that it would be a conclusion to a long chapter.

01:33:40 Do you feel like that happened?

01:33:42 - I mean, clearly not.

01:33:48 It's, I'm a little bit further

01:33:50 than I was earlier this year.

01:33:51 So hopefully now the Netflix series is out

01:33:55 and like, I mean, they're still kind of writing about it

01:33:57 but hopefully the next year something else will come along.

01:34:00 So let's see.

01:34:02 Yeah, I mean, it's a process.

01:34:03 I don't expect it to be overnight.

01:34:05 - I'm gonna ask you a question that you get asked a lot

01:34:07 but I'll ask it in two parts.

01:34:08 The first part is how have you changed

01:34:11 over the past few years?

01:34:12 And the second part is,

01:34:14 are you sick of being asked that question?

01:34:17 - No, the question I'm the most of being sick of asked of

01:34:21 is like if I watched the Netflix series.

01:34:23 (laughing)

01:34:24 - Really?

01:34:25 Have you?

01:34:26 - No, still did not.

01:34:28 I mean, yeah, that can change I guess any day

01:34:31 but yeah, still not.

01:34:33 Well, just I've been through the whole like criminal justice

01:34:37 and immigration system and I just met so many people

01:34:41 and I totally kind of switched my priorities

01:34:45 because all I used to care about like kind of earlier

01:34:49 was very kind of like shallow and superficial

01:34:52 and I thought like I was so well traveled

01:34:54 and I knew all kinds of people but I did not.

01:34:57 It was like still the same like type of person

01:35:00 like somebody who travels a lot, like who cares about art

01:35:03 and I was not really exposed to the people

01:35:06 who like get to go to jail.

01:35:08 So it was like a really eye opening experience

01:35:11 and yeah, I did learn a lot.

01:35:13 It's like you cannot just go for something like that

01:35:15 and stay the same, yeah.

01:35:19 And like I have a lot more interest in like

01:35:21 in kind of the whole like politics and society

01:35:25 because I've been affected by it myself

01:35:27 like when Biden got elected, they lifted my ICE warrant

01:35:31 and that's the only reason I got released last year

01:35:34 and because he tried to like put moratoriums

01:35:36 on all deportations and six weeks later,

01:35:39 they were more in the clear with the rules

01:35:42 and this is why I got re-arrested,

01:35:43 not because anything I've done like myself.

01:35:46 It's like literally just the rules

01:35:47 and the switch of administration.

01:35:50 - What do you feel like more people should know about you?

01:35:55 - Well, hopefully they will realize that my intentions

01:36:01 were never like to commit fraud or to commit any crimes

01:36:04 and like I've generally made some mistakes

01:36:07 and yeah, hopefully it will give me a chance to move on

01:36:10 and not just like try to, I think like it happens more

01:36:13 to women than it does to men,

01:36:15 like women are like being witchified a lot,

01:36:18 like you know, when it's like it's normal for men

01:36:22 to like make mistakes and fail,

01:36:23 but women are also like witches and cons

01:36:27 and like so deceiving and like,

01:36:29 it's just like out to like get something from you,

01:36:33 which I think is not fair.

01:36:35 - What does it feel like being famous

01:36:37 for being a con artist?

01:36:40 - I don't see myself as a con artist,

01:36:42 but I do realize that, I mean,

01:36:46 I wouldn't even say that I ever wanted to be famous.

01:36:48 I was just working on my project

01:36:49 and I was trying to make something happen

01:36:52 and I guess it just like attracted all this media attention.

01:36:55 Well, I feel kind of responsibility not to glamorize crime

01:37:00 and just kind of like to show people,

01:37:02 like hopefully I'm not going to inspire anybody

01:37:03 a little to commit crimes in order to become famous.

01:37:06 So yeah, hopefully people,

01:37:09 like it's just very kind of hard to show somebody

01:37:13 because I guess when people like Google me,

01:37:14 they see like me going to trial and I'm out of jail,

01:37:17 like from a photo shoot to photo shoot,

01:37:18 but nobody really gets to see like the jail part of it

01:37:22 because like there are no cameras in jail

01:37:23 and I spent a lot of time in there,

01:37:25 so and like it wasn't all great and glamorous.

01:37:28 So.

01:37:29 - Do you want to tell me a bit about that?

01:37:32 - Well, yeah, it's just like

01:37:33 there are no photographers on Rikers

01:37:34 and it's still like, it's not great.

01:37:36 Like I made it work,

01:37:37 but and it's still like, it's a tough place

01:37:41 and nobody, it's like, you should not,

01:37:45 hopefully like nobody will decide,

01:37:46 like let me go to jail and become famous, so.

01:37:48 (upbeat music)

01:37:51 - Alex, thanks for joining us.

01:37:58 We're thrilled to have you here.

01:37:59 - Thank you for having me.

01:38:00 - My first question is,

01:38:01 what is the Alex Earl brand

01:38:03 in this whole ocean of creators?

01:38:06 How do you stand up?

01:38:08 - I think the Alex Earl brand

01:38:09 is about being unapologetically yourself,

01:38:12 not being afraid to mess up,

01:38:14 not being afraid to be a mess

01:38:16 because I think a lot of creators get lost

01:38:19 in trying to look so perfect or have a perfect life

01:38:23 and I think that's what social media

01:38:24 tries to capture sometimes.

01:38:26 And I think when you stray away from that

01:38:28 and kind of show the imperfections

01:38:30 that go on in day-to-day life and it's normal,

01:38:34 that's kind of what the Alex Earl brand is about.

01:38:36 - What kind of imperfections,

01:38:38 what kind of, again, disasters have you shared

01:38:41 that have kind of really resonated with your followers?

01:38:44 - A big thing which I think sparked my following

01:38:47 was struggling with acne.

01:38:49 I started to post that last summer,

01:38:52 right before I went into my senior year of college

01:38:54 and I think a lot of people resonated with that

01:38:56 and that was kind of the first time

01:38:58 I tried out this kind of imperfect posting

01:39:02 and that's when I started to get a really good audience

01:39:06 and was able to engage with people

01:39:08 and people resonated with that much more

01:39:10 than they did when everything is fully polished

01:39:13 and glammed and ready to go.

01:39:15 - Yeah, you mentioned so much of social media

01:39:17 is a facade or filtered or just the highlight reel,

01:39:20 not the real behind the scenes.

01:39:22 What kind of sparked you to show that imperfection

01:39:25 to focus on your acne at that point?

01:39:27 Was it a fluke or was it something you tried to do

01:39:30 consciously to be like, this is real me?

01:39:34 - Well, I had been posting on TikTok for a few years

01:39:38 and I had a smaller following.

01:39:40 It was kind of steady though,

01:39:41 nothing was really growing too much

01:39:43 and I would regularly post because I loved TikTok

01:39:48 and I didn't wanna get in front of the camera anymore

01:39:50 because of my skin.

01:39:51 I was so self-conscious about it

01:39:53 and I wasn't posting and it wasn't making me happy

01:39:56 and I was like, you know what, this is just so fake.

01:39:59 I would layer on layers of makeup

01:40:01 and I would go in front of the camera,

01:40:03 turn all the filters on and I'm like, nothing's here,

01:40:05 my skin is clear, but that's just not real.

01:40:08 So I one day took the filters off, I just showed it.

01:40:11 I was so nervous when I first posted it.

01:40:14 I texted my friends a million times.

01:40:15 I was like, should I take it down, should I take it down?

01:40:17 And it ended up going over really well

01:40:21 and the video got a bunch of views.

01:40:22 So I kind of kept playing into that a little bit

01:40:25 and then kept going with it from there.

01:40:28 - You said you were on TikTok for a few years.

01:40:30 Like, how did you get into it?

01:40:31 Were there any specific creators or influencers

01:40:35 that you admired and kind of got you into the game?

01:40:38 - I downloaded TikTok probably around like

01:40:40 the quarantine time when everyone did,

01:40:42 everyone was bored in the house

01:40:44 and they had like all the big influencers,

01:40:47 everyone's going out to LA and I was like,

01:40:49 oh, this seems so cool.

01:40:50 So I downloaded TikTok and I was trying out

01:40:53 a bunch of different things on there,

01:40:54 but it wasn't really working for me,

01:40:56 but I knew I loved posting and I loved the app.

01:40:58 So it took a few years before I kind of found my niche

01:41:02 on there, which actually came from me doing live streams

01:41:06 of doing my makeup to go out in Miami

01:41:08 and I would talk a little bit more

01:41:10 and they could see my personality.

01:41:12 I'd be with my roommates and then I was like,

01:41:15 why are my live streams getting more views

01:41:17 than the videos I'm posting?

01:41:19 So I just decided to make these getting ready videos

01:41:22 or getting ready lives into videos I was posting.

01:41:25 - What was the moment where you realized,

01:41:27 wait a minute, this is not just something I like,

01:41:29 a hobby, but this could be a thing,

01:41:31 this could be a business.

01:41:33 - I think it was my junior year.

01:41:35 A few brands started to reach out to me

01:41:37 and I was super excited about it

01:41:39 and I tried working with people.

01:41:42 Like at first it wasn't even paid deals.

01:41:44 I just was excited to be doing that

01:41:47 and excited that a brand would gift me something

01:41:50 and I really just found a love for it

01:41:53 and I liked sharing with my audience

01:41:56 different products and brands that I liked

01:41:58 and liked getting their feedback too.

01:42:00 - So Alex, this started catching on

01:42:02 when you were a junior in college.

01:42:03 How did you balance being a student

01:42:05 and being an entrepreneur and creator?

01:42:08 - It was tough, but honestly so rewarding

01:42:11 and my senior year is honestly when things started

01:42:14 to get kind of crazy with balancing school,

01:42:17 work, traveling for work,

01:42:20 and maintaining a social life at the same time.

01:42:23 I found though that I was able to apply

01:42:25 what I was learning either in the classroom,

01:42:28 in my everyday work, or vice versa

01:42:31 and it became super helpful for me

01:42:34 and my classmates and sharing with them

01:42:37 what I knew kind of from like first-hand experience

01:42:40 and just talking to my professors

01:42:42 and they were saying that's kind of what

01:42:45 grad school is like a little bit

01:42:46 'cause most people go out and work for a year or two

01:42:49 and then they come back

01:42:50 and they kind of have that first-hand experience

01:42:52 to kind of give advice or see what they learned

01:42:54 or you just pay a little bit more attention

01:42:57 when you're understanding how this really applies to you.

01:43:00 So it was really great actually.

01:43:03 - And you studied business, right?

01:43:04 - Yes, marketing.

01:43:05 - You should have been teaching the class

01:43:07 not the professors, right?

01:43:07 Was it weird being like,

01:43:09 I'm sure they were teaching social media

01:43:12 and digital everything in class

01:43:15 and then there you are in class

01:43:16 and someone who's kind of cracked that code.

01:43:18 What was that like?

01:43:20 - My first digital marketing class I took,

01:43:22 they would teach us about the analytics

01:43:24 behind the posts and everything

01:43:26 and that's when I, that was my junior year

01:43:28 and I was so intrigued by it

01:43:30 and I was like, wow, like these hashtags

01:43:32 are helping and everything.

01:43:33 So I was super intrigued by it

01:43:35 and then things kind of took off for me

01:43:38 but they don't have so much like a social media

01:43:42 influencer marketing class, I guess

01:43:44 and I was talking to one of my professors

01:43:47 right before I graduated and she was like,

01:43:49 I'd love to have you come back and speak at class

01:43:51 and share a little bit of your knowledge

01:43:53 because it's such a new industry

01:43:55 so it's not really like a full-on class yet

01:43:59 but it is cool that I'll be able to kind of go back

01:44:02 and share what I know.

01:44:03 - That's so cool and speaking of analytics,

01:44:06 how do you choose what to post,

01:44:08 how you're posting and when to post?

01:44:12 It's such a blank space.

01:44:13 How do you decide, I'm gonna do this video,

01:44:16 this content, this is gonna be live,

01:44:17 this is gonna be a real, this hashtag,

01:44:20 what goes, like take me through that process?

01:44:22 - A lot of what I post is in real time

01:44:25 and sometimes I'll have like my day planned out

01:44:28 and I'll know certain things that I can do

01:44:30 or post during the day, like if I'm gonna do

01:44:32 a get ready with me and an outfit video

01:44:34 but sometimes I honestly just pick up the phone

01:44:36 and I start recording and those are the things

01:44:39 that do the best because it's so like authentic

01:44:42 and in real time but I do look into like the time

01:44:48 I post, I try to do it when I know people are awake

01:44:50 and on their phones and at least in my time zone

01:44:54 so yeah, that's kind of how I go about that.

01:44:57 - Do you kind of look for maybe hot trends

01:44:59 or topics or even songs or you just kind of do

01:45:02 what you feel is organic with you?

01:45:05 - I mean going through my for you page,

01:45:07 you definitely see when there's a trend

01:45:09 or a trend in audio and I'll kind of sit there

01:45:12 and think of how I can twist it and make it

01:45:14 into something that works with my brand

01:45:16 and works with me and I always think

01:45:17 those are super fun to do.

01:45:19 - Well you're a business major,

01:45:20 how do you make money these days?

01:45:22 - A lot of it is through brand deals

01:45:24 and partnering with brands, whether it's like

01:45:27 a collaboration or a post and that's been

01:45:31 a lot of fun for me because it's super cool

01:45:33 to see like what goes on behind the scenes

01:45:35 and all the marketing and stuff.

01:45:36 - Can you give me a few examples of partners you've had?

01:45:39 - I work with L'Oreal, I just did a deal with Peloton,

01:45:44 I got to work with like Wawa which is so fun

01:45:46 'cause that's like my favorite place to go out and eat.

01:45:49 - You're a Jersey girl in central Jersey

01:45:52 which does exist by the way and that is very on brand,

01:45:55 that's very authentic.

01:45:56 - Yeah, Wawa and then they brought it down to Miami

01:45:58 when I went to college so that was super cool

01:46:00 when they reached out to me to work with them

01:46:02 because I am a diehard.

01:46:03 - What's your go-to order?

01:46:05 - I was always like a meatball sub type of girl

01:46:07 or I get this like weird breakfast quesadilla

01:46:10 no matter the time of day, so good.

01:46:12 - I love that, you don't really have meatball subs

01:46:13 and L'Oreal mentioned the same sentence

01:46:14 but you can do both.

01:46:16 How do you, and speaking of that,

01:46:17 like when you think about your brand and your authenticity,

01:46:20 how do you decide if I wanna work with this company,

01:46:24 this brand versus someone else

01:46:26 or like that's probably not the best fit,

01:46:28 how does that work?

01:46:29 - So what I've found through doing all of this

01:46:32 is that it only is gonna go over well

01:46:35 if I genuinely like the product and the brand

01:46:37 or it's something that I think my audience will like.

01:46:40 Otherwise, the audience can see right through it,

01:46:43 they know it's a money grab.

01:46:44 It's just, it's not good for you

01:46:47 or the trust you have with your followers.

01:46:50 So I always like to, if I haven't tried the product

01:46:54 or whatever it is yet, try it out for a few months,

01:46:57 see if I like it and then go and promote it

01:47:01 because I have a big platform

01:47:02 so I don't wanna put anything out there that is bad

01:47:05 or that I don't think that they'll actually like

01:47:07 and wanna spend their money on.

01:47:09 So that's kind of the process that goes on there

01:47:12 and it's been a lot of,

01:47:15 it's been a big learning process over the years with that

01:47:17 but I just have kind of like bound my little niche with that

01:47:20 and it works a lot better.

01:47:21 - You don't have to name names or name brands

01:47:23 but you have any funny ones

01:47:24 that people approached you for a thing

01:47:26 and you're like, are you kidding me?

01:47:27 Like any funny offers on the table?

01:47:30 - Yes.

01:47:31 I actually remember this was back in December, January

01:47:35 and this was like the biggest offer I'd ever seen

01:47:38 and it was for this device

01:47:42 that I just knew was not gonna work

01:47:45 or I don't know, maybe, but I was just like,

01:47:48 this seems like a little ridiculous

01:47:49 and I was like looking at it and I'm like, oh my gosh,

01:47:53 but I'm like, I cannot take this offer

01:47:55 because I'm like, that is just not, that will not go over.

01:47:58 - What did the device claim to do?

01:48:00 - It was like a helmet

01:48:02 and it was gonna get rid of your headaches

01:48:05 or your migraines or whatever

01:48:06 but I just, I don't know.

01:48:08 I started posting in that

01:48:10 how well that would have gone over with my audience.

01:48:13 I think they would have thought it was funny.

01:48:14 - And speaking about it,

01:48:16 you have a really, out of all the top creators,

01:48:19 you have one of the highest engagement rates

01:48:20 and that's the fans that interact with you,

01:48:23 whether they're sharing, liking, commenting.

01:48:25 Our friends at Influential say

01:48:28 that if an engagement rate's over 1%,

01:48:31 that's like you're an all-star.

01:48:32 Yours are in double digits.

01:48:34 How do you explain that

01:48:36 or what do you think causes your fan base

01:48:39 to really react and interact with your posts and the view?

01:48:44 - I think if you wanna get the engagement,

01:48:46 you have to also give that engagement with your audience.

01:48:49 I love replying to their questions.

01:48:52 I love laughing at the jokes they make.

01:48:54 I love answering questions they have in my DMs

01:48:57 and I just think you kind of have to have

01:49:00 that personal connection with them a little bit.

01:49:02 Otherwise, you just feel like another person

01:49:04 behind the screen and I don't know,

01:49:06 you don't have that relationship.

01:49:07 So I think it's all about how much effort

01:49:09 you kind of put in with connecting with them as well.

01:49:12 - How much time does that take?

01:49:14 That sounds very literally hands-on.

01:49:16 How many hours or how much time you spend a day

01:49:20 interacting with your community?

01:49:22 - A lot, pretty much, I don't know how many days

01:49:26 or how many hours a day I'm on social media,

01:49:28 but when I'm on my social media,

01:49:30 I am interacting across various platforms,

01:49:34 but I don't know, a lot, too many probably.

01:49:38 - Yeah, and obviously, you said this kind of,

01:49:41 this huge following happened, not by accident,

01:49:44 but it took you, you started being vulnerable,

01:49:47 it took you by surprise, and you have such big engagement.

01:49:49 Are there any trade-offs, whether it's being on all the time

01:49:52 or being now suddenly recognizable

01:49:54 or having people commenting that maybe not,

01:49:56 might be saying negative things?

01:49:58 What are the trade-offs?

01:50:00 - It was definitely weird at first

01:50:01 to see people talk about me

01:50:03 as if I couldn't see what they were saying myself,

01:50:06 but I know that that comes kind of with the job

01:50:11 and I love it so much,

01:50:12 so I really wouldn't trade it for the world,

01:50:14 but I think sometimes it's hard to see stuff

01:50:17 that's not true about you.

01:50:18 That's where I get the mean stuff.

01:50:20 I'm like, okay, whatever,

01:50:22 but when they're spreading lies

01:50:24 or saying something that's not true,

01:50:25 that's where I wanna butt in,

01:50:26 but I just kind of have learned to chill out,

01:50:29 take a step back.

01:50:31 - Let the haters, that's what they want to hear.

01:50:33 You work with some really big brands,

01:50:37 you have huge engagement rates, you study the business.

01:50:40 Do you have any entrepreneurial

01:50:42 or kind of founder aspirations?

01:50:44 It's great you have brand deals.

01:50:47 Is there any thoughts of having an Alex Earl brand

01:50:50 in some way?

01:50:52 - Yeah, that's definitely the goal

01:50:53 is to eventually be promoting something

01:50:56 that I've produced myself,

01:50:58 and I'm still kind of figuring that out.

01:51:00 There's a lot of different options for different ventures

01:51:03 and a lot of different paths I could go down,

01:51:05 but I've been trying to take my time with it

01:51:08 along taking a step back,

01:51:10 because when I do something,

01:51:10 I want it to be something I'm really passionate about

01:51:14 and I want it to be 110%,

01:51:16 so I don't just wanna take any possibility

01:51:19 and do it half-ass.

01:51:22 - Any kind of different,

01:51:24 any industries or areas

01:51:25 that kind of might be on your list?

01:51:28 - I think something with makeup

01:51:32 is probably most on-brand for me,

01:51:35 but I've been looking into a bunch of different industries

01:51:39 and drinks and I don't know,

01:51:43 seeing what is gonna go over best.

01:51:46 - And you just graduated from college in May,

01:51:48 congratulations, you're 22.

01:51:49 - Thank you.

01:51:50 - I saw you did some research

01:51:50 and you already have an Alex Earl scholarship.

01:51:53 - Yes.

01:51:54 - Tell me about that,

01:51:54 how do you hear if people have scholarships,

01:51:56 let alone people who have been in a college

01:51:58 less than a year?

01:51:58 How does that work out?

01:51:59 - I mean, if you were to have told me

01:52:02 that by the time I was graduating

01:52:03 that there would be scholarship in my name,

01:52:06 I just would not have believed it

01:52:08 and I really love the school so much

01:52:11 and I got so much out of it,

01:52:13 so I figured why not give back in some way

01:52:17 and I wanna stay connected,

01:52:19 I wanna be a part of the alumni program,

01:52:21 I wanna really engage with the students

01:52:23 and help them kind of follow their dreams,

01:52:26 so I'm really excited about it

01:52:28 and looking forward to meeting the students

01:52:32 and kind of being a mentor for them.

01:52:34 - What do students have to prove to get the scholarship?

01:52:37 Is it focused on a certain area?

01:52:39 - So it's in the business school

01:52:43 and it's focused on juniors and seniors,

01:52:47 just because I think at that point,

01:52:49 sometimes you go in freshman year,

01:52:50 you don't really know what you wanna do,

01:52:52 so someone who kind of has that vision for themself

01:52:54 and maybe they just need a little financial assistance

01:52:58 and a mentor.

01:53:00 - What do you want your legacy to be,

01:53:02 the Alex Earl legacy?

01:53:03 - I think the Alex Earl legacy at the University of Miami

01:53:09 is about doing the unimaginable

01:53:12 and I want it to be a testament to students

01:53:14 that they can really live out their dreams

01:53:17 and the school can provide them

01:53:21 with whatever it is they wanna do

01:53:23 and they are smart and they are powerful and yeah.

01:53:28 - What is your advice to someone out there

01:53:32 who wants to build a massive fan base of following?

01:53:35 What's the secret for building a huge follower base?

01:53:38 - I think find a niche and stick to it

01:53:40 and believe in yourself.

01:53:42 It's not gonna happen right away,

01:53:45 but find something that you love to post and create

01:53:48 because you're gonna be doing it a lot,

01:53:50 so make sure you like it and stick to it.

01:53:52 - Cool.

01:53:53 What advice, you have a lot of brand deals,

01:53:55 what advice do you have for brands or companies

01:53:58 to think about before they're going to partner

01:54:00 with a specific influencer?

01:54:02 What should these companies think about

01:54:03 when they're, before they're doing deals?

01:54:05 - I think it's super important for brands

01:54:07 to look at the creator's organic and natural posts

01:54:11 and see if their product fits into that

01:54:14 because if it doesn't align, like we said before,

01:54:16 like it's just, it's not gonna go over well,

01:54:19 it's not gonna be a good investment for them

01:54:21 to sponsor someone for something

01:54:22 that they're not gonna get any return on.

01:54:24 So I think just kind of making sure

01:54:28 that they're not pushing it too much

01:54:30 and that it kind of like feels natural

01:54:32 to what they already create

01:54:34 and giving them a creative brief

01:54:36 that allows them to maintain their normal posting style.

01:54:40 - So no headache helmets.

01:54:41 - Yeah.

01:54:43 - Good to know.

01:54:44 How do you balance, you know,

01:54:45 serving your fans and followers,

01:54:47 but then also serving your business

01:54:49 and your brand that you're building?

01:54:51 - I mean, I think that kind of goes hand in hand.

01:54:54 They love when I'm recommending them products

01:54:57 and different brands for them to try.

01:55:00 And obviously the brands love that as well.

01:55:02 So I think it kind of like plays into each other

01:55:04 a little bit and, you know,

01:55:06 I just try to promote things that I really, really love

01:55:09 so that I know they'll really like it as well, hopefully,

01:55:12 and the brands will be happy.

01:55:14 - Who is your dream collaborator?

01:55:15 If you could do a project with somebody out there

01:55:18 in the world, who would it be?

01:55:20 - I think Blake Lively is pretty cool.

01:55:22 I've always loved her.

01:55:23 And I think she's super like authentic and real.

01:55:26 So maybe her.

01:55:27 - How does the Alexwell brand make money?

01:55:29 How do you monetize this huge community

01:55:32 and following that you have?

01:55:34 - So a lot of it is brand deals and brand partnerships,

01:55:37 whether that's the collaboration with them

01:55:39 or different posts and something I'm super excited about

01:55:44 and which is gonna kind of be my new work project

01:55:46 for this year is I'm coming out with a podcast.

01:55:49 So I think that'll be super cool

01:55:51 and I'll get to kind of show a different side of me

01:55:53 to my audience.

01:55:54 - Fair, but what's it gonna be about?

01:55:55 Are you an interviewer?

01:55:57 Are you gonna have guests at all?

01:55:57 What's the kind of the plan?

01:55:59 - No, it's kind of gonna be about my life

01:56:01 and kind of feeling like a little debrief

01:56:04 of what's going on week to week,

01:56:06 kind of like longer form, get ready with me videos.

01:56:08 So I'm really excited.

01:56:09 And I think that's gonna be my next big project

01:56:12 for this year.

01:56:12 - That's so cool.

01:56:13 Do you have a partnership with that?

01:56:15 Is that on one of the big podcast platforms or?

01:56:18 - So Alex Cooper started a network called Unwell

01:56:22 and it's gonna be on there.

01:56:24 And I was one of the first creators to get signed with it.

01:56:27 So I'm really excited and she's super talented.

01:56:29 So I'm kind of excited to have her as like a mentor

01:56:32 with the whole podcast world

01:56:34 'cause obviously she's been killing it.

01:56:36 So I'm excited.

01:56:37 - She's huge.

01:56:38 She's another Forbes top creator under 30.

01:56:40 That's awesome.

01:56:40 Well, Alex, thank you so much.

01:56:41 - Thank you.

01:56:42 (upbeat music)

01:56:45 - Monet, thank you for joining us.

01:56:52 - Thank you so much for having me.

01:56:53 I cannot believe I'm in this seat right now.

01:56:55 Super glad to talk.

01:56:56 - Glad to have you.

01:56:57 So my first question is,

01:56:59 describe to me what the Monet McMichael brand is.

01:57:03 - It's kind of crazy to think that like Monet is a brand.

01:57:06 It's just something bigger than me now.

01:57:08 And I'm honestly so proud to see like the audience

01:57:10 that is kind of gathered around to,

01:57:13 you know, the girl's corner, it's all things safe.

01:57:14 I feel like at the end of the day,

01:57:15 it's just about being yourself,

01:57:17 the realest version of yourself unapologetically.

01:57:19 So I love it.

01:57:21 - And there's so many,

01:57:22 be a creator these days, all you need is a phone.

01:57:25 You have a massive following, massive influence.

01:57:28 How do you stand out against that sea

01:57:31 of just everyone else on the web?

01:57:33 - You know, I think with social media nowadays,

01:57:36 it's like, you never know what's kind of like real or not.

01:57:39 So I feel like you always know that in my corner,

01:57:42 it's just the realist.

01:57:44 (laughs)

01:57:45 I kind of feel like the big sister kind of where it's like,

01:57:48 you know, you can look up to me

01:57:48 whether you're older or younger,

01:57:49 like it's a place where, you know,

01:57:51 we can all learn from each other.

01:57:53 - Is there a spark or is there one video

01:57:55 or one piece of content that you posted

01:57:57 that kind of started accelerating

01:57:59 or making all the difference in your brand

01:58:02 or in your business?

01:58:04 - I feel like it definitely was a slow

01:58:05 and steady growth over time.

01:58:07 There was a few moments that went viral.

01:58:08 I remember one of my first get ready with me

01:58:10 is where I felt like there was a true connection

01:58:12 where, you know, I'm just oversharing

01:58:13 about my life in the corner and like, you know,

01:58:15 we can all relate as humans on some level,

01:58:17 but yeah, it definitely started as like a hobby in school

01:58:19 and just kind of sharing anything and everything

01:58:21 from, you know, beauty or just like lifestyle or, you know.

01:58:26 - Were you posting just as a hobby for fun

01:58:29 or when you started, was it an aspiration

01:58:31 to be a social media star?

01:58:34 - Yeah, no, I definitely had dreams.

01:58:36 Like I grew up on YouTube,

01:58:37 loved watching like just all of the, you know,

01:58:40 creators live their best life, going brand trips.

01:58:42 Like it was definitely a dream,

01:58:43 but nothing I ever thought could ever be my life.

01:58:45 So it definitely was a hobby at first.

01:58:48 I never thought it could ever come this far.

01:58:50 I'm so just shocked.

01:58:52 I'd pinch myself.

01:58:52 It happened so fast too.

01:58:54 Like a year ago I was in nursing school.

01:58:55 So, I mean, I can't believe I'm sitting here right now.

01:58:58 - You're talking, you graduated a year ago,

01:59:00 graduated Rutgers, Jersey.

01:59:02 - Yes, Jersey.

01:59:03 - And nursing schools, you know, this is super intense.

01:59:06 Like how did you balance nursing school

01:59:09 and then your creator platform?

01:59:12 - Yeah, I feel like it really was a passion

01:59:15 that I didn't realize that I had inside that like,

01:59:17 and for nursing school too, it was such a big passion.

01:59:20 But I feel like I always made time,

01:59:21 whether it was just like,

01:59:22 I'm really big on routine where it's like Monday

01:59:24 through Friday, I'm, you know, clocking in my classes,

01:59:26 putting that time aside to study.

01:59:28 So I did have that free time

01:59:30 where I could do whatever I wanted.

01:59:31 And I felt like in nursing school,

01:59:32 a lot of people like had that mindset where it was like,

01:59:34 I have no life, like I can't do anything.

01:59:35 It's like, you know, just cross your T's, bat your eyes

01:59:39 and like have a Saturday and Sunday.

01:59:41 I feel like that works for me, so.

01:59:43 - What was your first paid social gig?

01:59:46 When was the first time you went from,

01:59:48 became professional, I guess.

01:59:49 You started thinking that this could actually be a job.

01:59:54 - Yeah, it was last year, last February, 2022.

01:59:57 So I'm like, that's what I like,

01:59:59 that's burnt in my brain where I was just like, okay,

02:00:00 I'm gonna actually, you know, put my all on this

02:00:03 and see where I can like take it.

02:00:05 But it was a haircare deal and I loved the brand

02:00:07 and it was super exciting.

02:00:09 I remember talking to my mom about it.

02:00:10 I'm like, they're asking for my rates.

02:00:11 I'm like, what do I even say?

02:00:12 Like, where do I start?

02:00:14 It was kind of an insane conversation,

02:00:16 but yeah, it's definitely, yeah, that was where I started.

02:00:20 - How do you make money these days?

02:00:22 - So TikTok is definitely my biggest platform.

02:00:26 And yeah, there's paid partnerships there, which I have,

02:00:30 it's insane that these brands that I absolutely love,

02:00:33 like have the opportunity to partner with

02:00:35 and kind of just, you know, share the love,

02:00:37 have a code so people can get a discount.

02:00:39 And also just, yeah, just talk all things beauty.

02:00:42 And it's cool to see like the reach now that, you know,

02:00:45 I'm moving into my new house now,

02:00:46 which is such a blessing, it's so insane.

02:00:48 But yeah, even like household partnerships,

02:00:51 it's interesting seeing how like brands,

02:00:52 how many brands are tapping into like social media nowadays.

02:00:55 - What kind of partnerships?

02:00:57 Can you name a few of these collaborations you've done?

02:00:59 - Yeah, so beauty is definitely my main category.

02:01:03 So recently I worked with YSL Beauty,

02:01:05 which was super exciting.

02:01:07 NARS, MAC, some of my top like three favorites.

02:01:10 And then, so fashion, I'm getting to my fashion bag.

02:01:14 I'm really excited about that.

02:01:16 Excited for fashion week coming up.

02:01:17 And then for home, I'm working with,

02:01:20 well, I'm trying to get my foot in the door

02:01:22 with a few brands like Pottery Barn or West Elm.

02:01:25 So it's super cool to see kind of the reach there.

02:01:28 - That's so cool.

02:01:29 Have you ever had, you have to name names,

02:01:31 but any funny offers you've had for collaborations

02:01:33 that you just knew weren't a right fit

02:01:35 or just kind of bizarre?

02:01:37 - I think I know my audience well enough

02:01:39 where sometimes it just wouldn't make sense

02:01:40 for me to accept a partnership.

02:01:42 But yeah, it's nice when the right ones do land in my inbox.

02:01:46 - That's so cool.

02:01:47 Do you have any, as you know,

02:01:48 you have this big platform, big brand,

02:01:50 do your marketing is, you have to pay for marketing, right?

02:01:53 Do you have any, what's the new plans

02:01:56 for maybe entrepreneurship or starting your own brands

02:01:59 or lines or businesses?

02:02:01 - Yeah, it's definitely been more of a conversation recently

02:02:04 'cause I think it was such a shock for a while,

02:02:06 but I was just like, I can't even think that, that large.

02:02:08 But now I'm working on just building my team slowly

02:02:11 and just having more resources

02:02:13 and just those bigger conversations.

02:02:14 I definitely love to start a brand, I feel like.

02:02:17 And I think right now is my discovery year,

02:02:18 though I say it's like working with different brands,

02:02:21 whether it's fashion or makeup or skincare

02:02:23 and seeing like what I really love.

02:02:24 And I have some fun collabs coming up

02:02:26 that I think I'll learn a lot from.

02:02:27 - Tell me about your team

02:02:28 and how you've gone from a nursing graduate

02:02:31 to now you're running a business.

02:02:32 How do you do that on a day-to-day basis?

02:02:35 - Yeah, so I was doing it on my own for the first year.

02:02:38 And then once I hit my senior year of nursing school,

02:02:41 I was like, I don't know if I can balance this all by myself.

02:02:43 Just even answering emails was like taking up half my day.

02:02:46 So I was on the lookout,

02:02:47 kind of looking for agencies or managements to help me out.

02:02:50 And I was connected with one

02:02:52 and it was a beautiful relationship for a while.

02:02:55 And then yeah, I recently expanded my team,

02:02:59 working with an agency now,

02:03:01 which I'm super excited about.

02:03:03 'Cause I mean, the possibilities are just so endless.

02:03:07 It's kind of crazy.

02:03:08 But yeah, I think what's really important to me

02:03:10 is like having people I can trust and just,

02:03:12 it's not about like the name or like the numbers

02:03:15 or any of those things.

02:03:16 It's really about like that personal connection to me.

02:03:18 So it's about like just that care, that mutual respect.

02:03:21 And yeah, I'm super proud of my team.

02:03:23 I'm really excited.

02:03:24 - Speaking of connections.

02:03:25 So one of our, for the Forbes top creator list,

02:03:29 one of the main ingredients or factors is engagement score.

02:03:33 How much your followers and fan base engage with your content

02:03:36 liking, commenting, sharing.

02:03:38 Yours is off the charts.

02:03:40 It's incredibly high.

02:03:42 How do you attribute such a strong connection

02:03:44 between you and your fan base?

02:03:46 - Well, I think it goes back to, like I said,

02:03:48 just building that team around me that cares.

02:03:50 I think like it's a mutual feeling.

02:03:52 Like I really care about my audience,

02:03:53 people who listen and can relate.

02:03:56 And when I meet people on the streets who like recognize me

02:03:58 and just like, I love your videos, like that goes so far.

02:04:02 Like that's, I do it for that one person.

02:04:04 And I feel like it's just a friendship.

02:04:06 Like it's crazy.

02:04:09 Like I have all these people,

02:04:10 like just how the internet can connect people

02:04:12 on just another level.

02:04:14 - How many hours are you on social media a day?

02:04:16 - I feel like I've been trying to work on that.

02:04:20 I think, it's interesting 'cause it's like, it's fun,

02:04:23 but also it's work.

02:04:24 So it's like, you know, scrolling for inspiration and also,

02:04:26 but like, you know, trying to create that boundary

02:04:29 where it's like good for my mental health

02:04:31 just to disconnect and be present.

02:04:34 I think I've really been enjoying that lately

02:04:37 and just more so planning ahead versus before

02:04:41 is more like sporadic, like in the moment,

02:04:42 just like capturing everything versus now it's like,

02:04:44 okay, I need to make sure like this day I'm filming

02:04:46 and this day I'm like really spending for myself.

02:04:48 - How much work is it to maintain that engagement?

02:04:52 Do you feel yourself having to respond often

02:04:55 and kind of curate?

02:04:56 Like tell me how that works, like day in the life.

02:04:57 - Yeah, I definitely feel like kind of that pressure

02:05:00 whenever like I do kind of chill out for a day or two

02:05:04 or like miss a YouTube video upload.

02:05:05 I'm just like, I feel like there's a sense of like,

02:05:07 you know, responsibility to like show up

02:05:09 and 'cause I am a consumer first,

02:05:11 like one of my favorite creators,

02:05:12 when he posts for a while, I'd be like,

02:05:14 girl, where are you?

02:05:15 Like give me an update or something like that.

02:05:17 So I just feel like that level of kind of respect

02:05:19 where it's like communication

02:05:20 and also I love doing it, like responding my comments,

02:05:24 you know, 'cause I guess like I do put work

02:05:26 into creating the video.

02:05:27 So I love the feedback.

02:05:28 I feel like it's always positive.

02:05:29 And yeah, I think it's super fun,

02:05:32 but definitely something I cherish just that relationship.

02:05:36 So.

02:05:37 - How do you decide what you're gonna post that day

02:05:39 or the topic or the, you know, the content?

02:05:43 - I feel like inspiration, like acting on your inspiration,

02:05:45 like every day there's something new,

02:05:47 something you can just, you know,

02:05:49 whether it's the smallest thing or something you'd be like,

02:05:51 oh, like no one would be interested in that.

02:05:52 It's like, chances are like someone probably is like,

02:05:56 I was talking about getting trash bins

02:05:58 and like toilet paper rolls,

02:05:59 like things like that for my house.

02:06:00 Like adulting things that like people probably relate on.

02:06:03 Honestly, it helps when I have fun plans going on that week.

02:06:06 I can kind of plan around that.

02:06:07 I'm like, do a get ready with me video or style with me

02:06:10 or just simple things like here's my grocery list.

02:06:12 This is what we're gonna shopping, like, let's go.

02:06:13 - And you mentioned oversharing and before you're very real,

02:06:17 you're very open with your followers.

02:06:19 Are there any downsides or drawbacks to that,

02:06:21 to kind of living so open in front of the world?

02:06:25 - Recently, just like privacy,

02:06:27 I've kind of been more just aware about just, you know,

02:06:31 moving to a new place

02:06:31 and just making sure I am like protected.

02:06:33 And I think also just people having access

02:06:37 to so much about my life.

02:06:38 It's like, you can use it against me in some ways

02:06:40 and just having so much access

02:06:41 to my relationships in my life and just like, oh, you know,

02:06:45 people are very observant.

02:06:46 Obviously remember things and can have like,

02:06:49 just a track record, not saying that like anything.

02:06:51 I think it's just something I'm more aware of now, for sure.

02:06:55 - As you're going into beauty and in style design

02:06:59 and now home design, is there a,

02:07:01 do you have a dream collaborator?

02:07:02 If there was one person across the universe

02:07:05 that you could do a video with or, you know,

02:07:08 do a project with, who would that person be right now?

02:07:11 - I think Rihanna is like the first person

02:07:13 that comes to my head.

02:07:14 I love that woman down.

02:07:16 And like Beyonce, like I think music

02:07:18 is super important to me as well.

02:07:20 I think it's a good way I've connected with my audience

02:07:21 too is like getting ready with like music in the background.

02:07:24 It's like, I love this song.

02:07:25 Like there's another kind of like connection there,

02:07:27 but yeah, I think RiRi, she is such a boss in so many ways.

02:07:31 Her beauty line, her skin line, her fashion, music,

02:07:35 a mother, yeah, I think that's one.

02:07:37 - If you could design a post or a video

02:07:40 with you and Rihanna, what would you guys be doing?

02:07:43 - Maybe a song, that'd be fun.

02:07:45 - Do you do music?

02:07:46 - I think I like music.

02:07:48 - Do you sing?

02:07:49 Are you a musician?

02:07:50 - I hit a tune here or there.

02:07:51 - Okay.

02:07:52 (Rihanna laughs)

02:07:53 Good, leave that in comment.

02:07:54 I get one tune a year, that's good.

02:07:56 - I can be the support, I can be the backup vocals.

02:07:58 You know, I'll be your backup dancer.

02:08:00 - And you just finished your nursing degree recently.

02:08:04 What are your plans for the future?

02:08:05 Do you wanna go into that field or that was great,

02:08:08 but this whole other kind of, you know,

02:08:10 this whole other option opened up for you?

02:08:11 - There was definitely a fork in the road

02:08:12 where I had to decide like which one I was gonna put

02:08:14 like my all into and I mean, this being my career now

02:08:18 is an absolute dream and I definitely am chasing it

02:08:21 right now, but I'm so glad I graduated, I got my degree

02:08:23 and I learned so much in nursing school

02:08:25 that I feel like could never, you know,

02:08:27 something that can never be taken away from me

02:08:28 where it's like just about myself and being a person,

02:08:31 just an adult and also just all the amazing things

02:08:34 in the medical field, but yeah.

02:08:36 - Do you find that what you learned there

02:08:38 are those skills to graduate?

02:08:41 How do you use those when you build your business now?

02:08:44 - I think my first thing is like my support system.

02:08:46 It's like having that support, whether it's one friend

02:08:48 or like a group of friends that you study with.

02:08:51 I think that's important to like,

02:08:52 and kind of building this career,

02:08:53 it's having people to lean on and you know,

02:08:55 my family is like so important to me, my friends,

02:08:57 like keep your family so, I just keep them so close.

02:09:00 So I think I couldn't, I would not be here without them

02:09:02 and just them cheering me on from the sidelines too

02:09:04 and just like an everyday just listening

02:09:06 and you know, inspiring me.

02:09:08 So yeah, I think that's a big thing that kind of has applied.

02:09:11 - What would you want your legacy to be?

02:09:14 - I think just believe in yourself

02:09:16 'cause I know so many people, even myself,

02:09:18 just lived in so much like doubt for a while

02:09:21 where it's like you stop yourself from so much,

02:09:22 you know, you would never know.

02:09:24 There's so much more, I always say,

02:09:25 just like positive you can give

02:09:27 than just like a hater could like ever kind of like stop you

02:09:31 you know, so.

02:09:32 - Is there one field that like you see your future in

02:09:34 or that you would dream to kind of, you know, dominate?

02:09:37 - I feel like I love it all right now.

02:09:39 I feel like I'm really, that's my job right now

02:09:41 to figure out what it is.

02:09:42 I think right now I'm really excited about fashion

02:09:44 like I said, and also something like going into lifestyle,

02:09:49 kind of like family, I'm super excited to be a mother.

02:09:51 I feel like that's like a big part,

02:09:53 I think, well sharing my life in general online.

02:09:56 I feel like I'm really excited to go on that journey

02:09:59 and just, you know, learn and grow from that too, so.

02:10:02 - How many TikTok followers do you have right now?

02:10:05 - 3.5 million.

02:10:06 - 3.5 million.

02:10:07 What is your secret for building a massive fan base?

02:10:11 - I feel like it's just like, don't be afraid,

02:10:12 don't let fear hold you back.

02:10:13 I feel like that's like the biggest thing

02:10:14 is people are like, I'm afraid I'm going to be judged,

02:10:17 I'm afraid that this isn't gonna land how it's supposed to.

02:10:18 It's like, the right ones will stick, I think.

02:10:22 - And you work in a ton of big brands,

02:10:24 especially in the beauty world.

02:10:26 What advice would you give to brands and businesses

02:10:29 to think about before they decide to work

02:10:32 with a specific influencer?

02:10:34 - Ooh, that's a good question.

02:10:35 I feel like definitely do your research

02:10:38 and like kind of seeing their audience

02:10:39 and what they engage with.

02:10:40 And yeah, it makes sense for a beauty brand to reach out

02:10:44 because I'm constantly talking about products

02:10:46 and constantly, you see my comments,

02:10:48 people are like, okay, what blush color was that?

02:10:51 Or like, what brand is like, this product looks so amazing,

02:10:53 like, what is that?

02:10:54 So yeah, I think it's definitely don't work with creators

02:10:56 just because of the numbers.

02:10:57 It's like, see what is resonating with their audience.

02:10:59 That's the most powerful part.

02:11:01 - And how do you kind of balance serving your fan base

02:11:03 then also serving your growing business?

02:11:05 - Yeah, I think I still have so much fun posting

02:11:09 and I love now that a lot of stuff is behind the scenes.

02:11:11 I feel like now that we've kind of grown to,

02:11:13 you know, something like this,

02:11:14 I can't share until next month,

02:11:17 but it's kind of building up that excitement every day

02:11:20 and like through just kind of little things,

02:11:21 keeping them, you know, checking in

02:11:23 and staying engaged that way.

02:11:25 You know, instead of like that instant gratification

02:11:28 where it's like, this is like results

02:11:29 that like start to finish.

02:11:30 It's more so like you have to come along the journey,

02:11:32 but also I can still like, you know, work behind the scenes

02:11:34 and have stuff coming out consistently.

02:11:36 - Loni, thank you so much for joining us.

02:11:38 - Yay, thank you for having me.

02:11:39 This is so awesome.

02:11:40 I can't wait to tell my mom and dad.

02:11:42 Please do this.

02:11:43 Bye family, love you.

02:11:44 (upbeat music)

02:11:46 (crickets chirping)

02:11:49 [BLANK_AUDIO]

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