Social media companies are thriving, and so are their users. According to Goldman Sachs, the creator's market is estimated to reach $480 billion by 2027. In this panel, we will discover what it takes to establish and monetize a brand inside the digital economy, including music, film, and the creative arts.
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LifestyleTranscript
00:00Now, for our next conversation, please welcome back moderator Leigh Ann Jackson, senior law
00:06editor, Forbes, and panelists Lola Banjo, founder and creative director, Silver and
00:12Riley, Deval Ellis, actor, author, and entrepreneur, and Cam Kirk, photographer and videographer.
00:21What's up, y'all?
00:24Hello, everybody.
00:26How y'all doing?
00:29Testing, testing.
00:32So our conversation, how to leverage $480 billion, a creator's conversation, how can
00:38we tap into this market, this digital economy, these social media companies making billions?
00:43How do we all get a piece of the pie?
00:45I have an excellent panel that can speak to this and give us some tips and advice and
00:49tell us how they did it.
00:51First, I would like to introduce to my left Lola Banjo, founder, Silver and Riley, a luxury
00:56travel and fashion accessories brand.
00:59And I believe she may have brought some of her products to show a little bit of what
01:02you can purchase.
01:03Go to her website.
01:04It's fire.
01:05So she's going to talk a little bit about how she works with creatives, because on both
01:07sides of this equation, how do you leverage and tap into this market?
01:11We also have Deval Ellis, actor, athlete, author, entrepreneur, multi-hyphenate, husband
01:18of Kadeen Ellis.
01:19I think that's the most important bit that we can say here.
01:22Kadeen joined us earlier on the Black Health Deep Dive.
01:25But he can speak a little bit to how you turn yourself into a brand and how you can
01:29tap into this market as well.
01:31And last but not least, Cam Kirk.
01:33He's a creative entrepreneur right here in the ATL.
01:36He's the founder of Cam Kirk Studios, a community and a multimedia company that's leveraging
01:42social media and harnessing all the various ways to spotlight talent and creatives in
01:46this market and beyond.
01:48So thank you guys for joining me.
01:49I would-
01:50Thank you for having us.
01:51You're welcome.
01:52Thanks for coming.
01:53So social media companies are thriving, and so are many of their users.
01:57But how can we all take advantage of this, make the most of it, make the most money?
02:02Let me ask you this first.
02:03There's a democratization that's in place.
02:06If you're an entrepreneur, you can harness, you can try to utilize social media.
02:11It seems like everyone is or can be a creator these days.
02:14But how do you differentiate yourself?
02:15How do you stand out above the crowd to actually succeed in this space?
02:21You guys, anyone can jump in on that one.
02:23How you guys doing?
02:24Everybody all right?
02:25Yeah.
02:26Y'all have something to drink?
02:27I ain't get no alcohol.
02:28I went to get a drink, and there was nobody serving alcohol.
02:33But no, the biggest thing I would say is understanding what your truth is.
02:38The first thing about content creation is living and existing in your truth.
02:42The hardest thing to do is to consistently tell someone else's story, because then you
02:46run out of material.
02:47But when you wake up every morning and you have a story to tell, and you can stay in
02:51that lane, you have unlimited access to information.
02:56And once you can constantly put that information out, that's how you start to build and create
03:00content.
03:01For example, anybody here work for any apps?
03:07You work for app, right?
03:08So the main purpose of an app is to make money by keeping people on the app, right?
03:14So if you're a content creator, the more content you push out, the more they're going to push
03:19you to the forefront.
03:20So the algorithm tends to put people who put more content out up front, because they know
03:25that people are going to constantly stay on the app to watch that content.
03:29If those people are on the app, they can then run ads through that content, correct?
03:35Who watches the most content and buys off of apps?
03:40Who?
03:41Women.
03:42Women.
03:43This is an absolute fact.
03:45Your brand.
03:46Every brand that I've dealt with that's done a brand partnership asked me for my analytics.
03:50They said, what percent of your following is women?
03:52I say 85%.
03:54They go, ching, ching, because they know women buy.
03:58Women don't only buy for themselves.
04:00Women buy for their husbands.
04:01Women buy for their kids.
04:03So if you're a content creator and you know the market, and you understand what the purpose
04:06is of creating that content, it's really easy to create content and make money from it.
04:11That makes total sense.
04:12Go ahead.
04:13Yeah.
04:14So this is an amazing time for content creation.
04:15We're in the second renaissance of content where now it can be monetized, right?
04:20So the first renaissance was the internet, the advent of the internet.
04:23At that time, there was not the myriad of monetization tools that exist today.
04:27So it's such an amazing time to be a content creator.
04:30But like Deval was saying, it's really about being authentic and really understanding your
04:34audience, what your key value proposition is, and what you're bringing that's differentiating
04:39you from everyone else.
04:40Because it can be a saturated field, but there's always space to be able to differentiate yourself
04:45if you have that voice, that message, and you know who you're connecting with and how
04:49you're doing that.
04:50So it's really important to really understand who you are, first of all, and not try to
04:56just piggyback off what you see is popping, what you see everyone else doing.
05:01Understand who you are.
05:02Understand what you're bringing to the table that's different.
05:05And it's just an amazing space.
05:06It's leveled the playing field.
05:08It's democratized access.
05:10It's gotten rid of a lot of unearned privilege and also unearned disadvantages as well, because
05:16now people have more advantage than ever before to be able to create something out of themselves.
05:21More access than ever before.
05:23So it's such a great tool to be able to really build that.
05:27This is all about wealth creation and building generational wealth.
05:30So it's really a great tool to be able to do that for yourself and us as creators, be
05:35able to connect to that source.
05:38Cam, I wanted to ask you, because speaking of differentiating yourself, and this is a
05:41creator's conversation, all of you are creatives, but how do you turn a talent or a hobby into
05:48actual making money?
05:49So a skill that you have, I mean, you're amazing at photography, how do you actually monetize
05:53that?
05:54Well, I think with me specifically being a photographer, I kind of came in at the right
05:59time.
06:00If you're talking about social media, you're consuming imagery, content, photography.
06:05So you all are probably taking a photo that you're proud of now.
06:08So you have more of an affection for my industry, which helps and hurts.
06:13It helps a lot because more people need photography, hurts because y'all think y'all could do it.
06:20It is what it is.
06:21But I think when you talk about differentiating, like you guys mentioned, I think that is the
06:26key.
06:27And I know in the audience, you hear that all the time, be authentic, those are kind
06:31of like buzzwords sometimes.
06:33But I think now it's more and more than ever and more important to do that.
06:37And you won't be able to be yourself or find yourself unless you unplug from that matrix.
06:42Because if you're on social media, they're telling you, use trending sounds, use trends,
06:47follow the trend.
06:48It's literally forcing your timeline to look like a repetitive cycle.
06:54So you're not going to find your voice on social media.
06:58Get off social media, get in real life, know how people engage with you in real life.
07:02If you're a funny person in real life, be funny on socials.
07:04Like tap into your true character and personality and that helps.
07:08And then when you're talking about monetizing it, from that point, you can always, there's
07:12always value in something that's originally yours and that you own the IP on.
07:17That's the person that gets rich, the person that developed the trend and then can monetize
07:21it.
07:22So if you're finding yourself following trends, you're not developing anything that you can
07:26actually develop.
07:28So me as a photographer, I always tell photographers, content creators, it's a skill set first.
07:33So you want to master the skill of anything you want to do.
07:36It's an art form second.
07:37So how I take that skill and turn it into art form is how I'm able to monetize and make
07:41money off of what I do because it's unique.
07:44And also each of you can kind of speak to this as well and do it differently.
07:46But I've thought about how you kind of built a community around your business, your physical
07:52space here in Atlanta.
07:53And how important is that to sort of to leverage and to like build a bigger, a broader audience
07:59with finding a core community and getting really sort of ardent fans for what you do.
08:04Obviously Deval you as well.
08:05All of you guys can speak to this or whoever wants to.
08:08Yeah.
08:09I can go like, well, my studio, Camp Kirk Studios, we're actually celebrating seven
08:13years next week.
08:18My studio, my business taught me community.
08:21Originally I'm a photographer.
08:22I'm a solo guy.
08:23I got my camera, the subject I'm shooting, I don't need a team, I don't need help.
08:28That's kind of how I was approaching it.
08:29When I started my business seven years ago, I met other photographers, I met other creators
08:34and I started to find that we had a lot of common traits, but we also had a lot of common
08:39enemies so to speak or weaknesses or things that we needed.
08:42So I learned community through us just problem solving together.
08:46And now we've done over 35,000 appointments at my studio that really taught me community
08:52because now I'm meeting tens of thousands of content creators and photographers and
08:56learning what they like.
08:57And then when you find common ground in something, that's where the magic actually happens because
09:01you guys can relate, you can critique something, you could talk about it all day and night.
09:05And that's really how a business is running.
09:07So I think social media obviously played a major part in people just having more friends
09:12and more exposure to different cultures.
09:15So I think it's important and imperative you adopt some form of community in your business.
09:20You have to.
09:21I want to say this, don't let the use of social media distract you from the fact that word
09:26of mouth is still the greatest way to sell products and get a job.
09:30If you look at the top Fortune 500 companies, all their new hires don't come from LinkedIn.
09:35Over 90% of their new hires come from legacies.
09:38Those legacies come from where?
09:40Community.
09:41It's the same thing.
09:42Before I was doing TV film, I was a trainer and I put content and content out about training
09:47and training.
09:48Less than 1% of the people who watched my videos came to train.
09:53But when I trained one person good, they told five people.
09:56Then those five people told five people.
09:59Then I was able to build my community and also use social media as a different tool.
10:04But don't let social media make you think that you have to only develop social media
10:09to build your business.
10:10If you build your business and you don't have a community, your business will fail.
10:13That's a really important point.
10:18All of you are content creators in some way or other.
10:21Others of you work with content creators.
10:25Perhaps you, Lola, will talk a little bit about how the challenges, the positives, potential
10:30pitfalls of working with people who you want to show your products, who are actually the
10:34content creators, whereas you're actually manufacturing and doing production.
10:37Who in here is a content creator?
10:41A lot of people.
10:42I would say shout out to y'all because my brand would not be where it is right now without
10:47partnering with content creators that are able to showcase the brand to the community
10:51like Deval and Cam just mentioned.
10:54Community is absolutely important, but being able to be a vehicle of that message has been
10:58very critical to the brand.
11:00But there are some things that set you aside as a content creator.
11:03First of all, everyone knows that content creators are getting paid these days.
11:08If you're putting a product out and you really are not passionate about that product or you're
11:12just doing it for a check, people actually can see through that right away.
11:17They know.
11:18I think it's always important when you're a content creator and you're looking to work
11:23with brands, because there's some content creators that just want to create content
11:26for themselves.
11:27But if you're looking to work with brands, authenticity is always key, but also making
11:33sure that you actually connect with that brand and you actually like their products, you
11:37like what their message is, you're aligned with their values, because that's actually
11:41how you generate a recurring relationship with the brand.
11:45I think sometimes when I see content creators just think from a one-time thing perspective,
11:49I think it's a little bit myopic, because if you develop a really great relationship
11:53with a brand, and you can have two or three or four brand partnerships that you have solid
11:57relationships with, they'll put you on payroll and you actually are just generating recurring
12:02revenue from that.
12:04Because you actually really connect with the products, you're authentic, the audience actually
12:08sees that authenticity as well.
12:10It shines through in everything you're doing.
12:12But if you're just like, okay, I got to give me a check and get out of here, kind of thing,
12:16you're looking for work every two seconds.
12:18You're reaching out to brands, because we get so much incoming from content creators,
12:21I want to work with you, I want to work with you.
12:23And I'm like, if you kind of just think about that from a different perspective and just
12:27say, I'm going to find some brands that really align with me, that I really love what they
12:31stand for, and I know I can connect with their audience, my audience will also resonate with
12:36this brand as well, and I'm going to build and invest in that partnership, you can just
12:40sit there and get money, get paid.
12:42I have a couple of creators that we work with on a continuous recurring basis, monthly,
12:46that create content for us.
12:47So I think it's just thinking about it differently, and not just thinking about it transactionally,
12:52but thinking about a long-term relationship.
12:55Everything is relationship-driven.
12:56If you build really good relationships with the brand, the brand will absolutely take
13:00care of you.
13:01So I think just thinking more broadly from that perspective will help.
13:07I want to go back to something you kind of alluded to, Cam, and that's about like trends,
13:13and the idea of, obviously you need to be up on what's trending, but I want you guys
13:18to talk a little bit about what it means to chase trends versus know what's trending,
13:23being able to, also being able to pivot with all the algorithms that are out there that
13:26are constantly changing.
13:28You know, where do you, what's the levels to keeping in tune with what's happening,
13:34without being too tied to what's trending?
13:39I think that is a challenging part, because it can be a sensory overload sometimes when
13:44you're on social media, because there's so much things to consume and to take in, and
13:49you do have to have times where you engage and then you disengage to stay clear-minded,
13:55because you can get overwhelmed.
13:57I do think it's like a percentage, though.
13:59I would never say you shouldn't do a trending audio or a trending music.
14:04The Kendrick song is obviously big.
14:06You put that on one of your photos, you're going to get more likes.
14:08Like, it's just a natural thing, but I think you shouldn't be chasing them, and that's
14:12the only thing you're willing to do.
14:14I think you want to learn how to see through the trend, like what's making this trend?
14:20What's the real reason why people like this?
14:22And then how can I manipulate it?
14:24How can I bring it to my industry?
14:25How can I do something similar?
14:27How can I learn the cadence of it?
14:29You should be looking to study it and then utilize a way to create it yourself or find
14:33someone that can create a style that's original to you.
14:36But I do think it's a balance that you've got to have with following or doing what's
14:41trending on social, but also come with your own originality on it.
14:45Which goes to the idea of being your own brand.
14:47I, for one, never chased a trend.
14:48But you've been on your own brand, right?
14:50Yes, I was purposeful about saying, if everybody's doing that dance, we are not doing that dance.
14:56Because sometimes in a world where everyone's so focused on movement, you've got to stand
14:59still to stand out.
15:02Everybody's doing the same thing.
15:03So since everybody's doing that, we're not doing that.
15:06And then that's how you build a community of people who are like, I follow DeVal because
15:11I know he's going to give me what's on his mind that day.
15:14Not I'm following DeVal because he's just going to recycle what everyone else is doing.
15:18And that goes back to what Kim said about building community.
15:21I always told myself in the very beginning, if everyone's going left, I'm going right.
15:25It's crowded over there.
15:26There's a lot of traffic.
15:27I want to get in the express lane.
15:28And you stand out when you stay true to who you are.
15:31Even, and, thank you, Kim made a good point.
15:35You put a Kendrick song right now on your picture, you're going to get more likes for
15:39that one picture.
15:41That's it.
15:42You get more likes for that one picture.
15:44And those people who are not part of your community like the picture, but it doesn't
15:47turn into anything.
15:49Like you can't monetize that one picture for likes.
15:51It's already out there.
15:52The only way you can monetize is with consistency and being different all the time.
15:56Well, DeVal, it's interesting because, you know, again, I want to talk a little bit also
16:00about knowing your audience and knowing your brand and just giving some thoughts on drilling
16:04down and figuring out your lane, kind of staying in it, but also, you know, if needed, picking
16:09up on the zeitgeist and what's popular, you know, as you're growing.
16:12Because you've been in the game a long time.
16:14So you've been able to start with a very unique brand style and monetize that.
16:20So speak a little bit, all of you guys can talk about like deciding, you know, what is
16:24my brand?
16:25Who am I?
16:26How am I going to expand that, leverage that?
16:28What lane am I going to choose?
16:29Is it multiple lanes?
16:30I'm on a highway or am I just a single lane road?
16:33But talk a little bit about that.
16:35For me, brand building was about what was most important to me.
16:38It was family.
16:39It was family.
16:40It was finances.
16:41It was generational wealth.
16:42So it was just showing people every single day because consistency is key.
16:45There was a point when I had 3,000 followers and I told my wife, I'm going to post two
16:49pictures in a video every single day.
16:52And for five years, I posted two pictures in a video every single day, even when I wasn't
16:56getting any following because I knew that once people started following, now I have
17:00a catalog of content that they can go back and watch.
17:03So for me, it was like, what's important to me?
17:06Family's important to me.
17:07That's easy for me to get up and create content, right?
17:10And sometimes the best content is the content that's not difficult to produce.
17:14If I could pick my phone up like this and my wife got on a bonnet and I still got on
17:20pajama pants and I could just get a quick 60 seconds, that's real life because that's
17:24what people deal with all the time.
17:26People love relatable content.
17:28Why?
17:29Because it's shareable.
17:30Shareable content becomes trendy content and then you become the trend as opposed to trying
17:34to follow the trend.
17:36So for me, it was about staying relatable, staying what's true to what's myself and not
17:40overproducing it.
17:42Because when it's overproduced, now people look at it like, I could never do that.
17:46But anybody could pick up their phone, so they share with their significant other and
17:49their friends.
17:50So for me, once you pick your brand, pick what's most important to you, not what everyone
17:54else is doing.
17:55It could be T-shirts.
17:56If you love T-shirts, there's millions of people out there in the world who love T-shirts
18:00too.
18:01And if you create content for them, now you have a community of T-shirt buyers who will
18:05buy your T-shirts.
18:06I've seen it at every level, from sports to content creation to building businesses, just
18:12do what's true to yourself.
18:14And you drilled into something that's really important, the discipline of this, of succeeding
18:19in social media.
18:21What percentage would you guys say is discipline versus creativity versus luck, timing?
18:2695%.
18:27Is the discipline.
18:2895% discipline, yeah.
18:29And then creativity, obviously, we're talking about anyone can create content, but if you
18:34figure out who you are and what your brand is, that's creativity in itself.
18:39Absolutely.
18:40Absolutely.
18:41Like you all said, you can have content that's just showing your day-to-day, right?
18:44You don't really need a ton of creativity to do that.
18:47You just need a camera and you need your life, right?
18:49But then you have, on the other hand, people that are extremely creative.
18:53It's really about figuring out what you want to do, what you want to represent, right?
18:57Who you are, what's true to you, because every single person has something that they can
19:01offer the world, right?
19:03So you don't have to be doing what the next person is doing, you just have to find what's
19:07true to you.
19:08There is an audience for that.
19:09If you really love eating pizza, there's an audience for people that love watching
19:13people that eat pizza all day.
19:15Literally, there's an audience for everything.
19:17And if you're authentic to yourself and you know that, you know what, this is me, this
19:21is what I like to do, and it's not going to irritate me to create content, because you
19:25can also be a content creator that gets really irritated by the content that you create.
19:29But you're doing it because it's trendy and you feel like it's going to get you a check,
19:32right?
19:33And people see through that, right?
19:34People, your followers see through that, so your engagement rates are low.
19:38And then brands see through that as well, because if I want to work with a creator,
19:42I'm looking at the engagement rate, I'm like, how they have 900,000 followers and only nine
19:46people are commenting on their stuff.
19:48Like, I know that people are not really engaging with them, or they have fake followers, either
19:51of the two.
19:52But you know, you have to make sure that you are authentic to yourself.
19:56You're going to find your audience and be disciplined, right?
19:59Once you find your audience, they want to hear from you.
20:02Whatever cadence works for you, you don't have to put out three pieces of content per
20:06day.
20:07If it's a full-time thing, sure, you know, put that out.
20:09But if it's something that you're still doing to kind of build your reputation, build your
20:12brand until you can make it your full-time thing, you know, find the cadence that works
20:16for you.
20:17Whether you're posting three times a week, you're doing it consistently, enough that
20:20people can expect to, they know when to expect from you or to hear from you, and they follow
20:24for that.
20:25So, you know, it's, it's, it's, there's so many ways to do it, but you just have to do
20:29it true to yourself.
20:30And of course, different platforms work better for different people, depending what your
20:33business is, depending what you're trying to do, what your brand is.
20:36Can you give some tips or thoughts on the evolution of, whether it's Instagram, what's
20:41happening with TikTok, Facebook, how do you find your niche in the market for what you're
20:47doing with, again, ever-changing algorithms?
20:50And also, are they, do they suppress certain content from certain people, get more, you
20:53know, certain colors, get other?
20:54Yes, they suppress, they suppress content.
20:55Yeah, yeah.
20:56This, if we're going to have an open, honest conversation, this is an open, honest conversation.
21:01Black content creators get suppressed.
21:04We get suppressed because the vast majority of people in America who buy and look at social
21:10media and get stuff off social media is middle America.
21:13Middle America is not us.
21:15We live on the coast.
21:16It's the same thing with the NBA and the same thing with the NFL.
21:19I played in the NFL four years.
21:21They market to middle America.
21:23They don't market to New York.
21:24They don't market to Miami and market to California.
21:27Those people, they consider those people that live on the edges, they have too much stuff
21:30going on.
21:31We're looking for the farmers in middle America who have nothing to do, who we want to entertain.
21:36Those are the same people who they want to get stuck on these apps.
21:40So when we do something trendy, they'll suppress us, find a white counterpart that does the
21:45same thing that we do, and push it to the top.
21:47TikTok's been doing it for years.
21:49And they push them because people follow people they can relate to.
21:53I can guarantee you, there's some farmers in Missouri who probably never seen black
21:56people before.
21:57So seeing a black person dance on TikTok doesn't do anything for them.
22:01But if they see a white person do the same exact dance, it's like, oh, that's like my
22:04niece.
22:05And when people understand how to create content for market share, you understand what it's
22:10about.
22:11It's about dollars and cents.
22:12Learn the algorithm.
22:13Learn which brands are trying to focus on our people.
22:17That's what I did.
22:18I said, wait a minute.
22:19My audience is 90% black, so I'm only dealing with brands who are going to market to my
22:25audience.
22:26And I didn't care if other brands came with a big bag, because I knew if they came with
22:29a big bag, that's a one and done.
22:31And once you get the one and done, you can't get any longevity.
22:34So I worked with smaller black brands who gave me consistent money, and I was able to
22:38build over time.
22:39But it's understanding that that's what the market share is.
22:41We can fight it as much as we want, but that's exactly what it is.
22:44That's what's happening right now.
22:45Yeah, that's what's happening.
22:46Any final thoughts, Kim?
22:47Yeah, I wanted to definitely say this one final thought, because I think the consistent
22:52theme that we've all been given is find your authentic self.
22:56And again, that might be the hardest part of it all, is figuring out who you are.
23:02I don't want to skip over that or make it seem like that's something you just go look
23:05in the mirror and say, oh, that's who I am.
23:07No, you might have to really do some deep diving and thinking about who you are.
23:11But I will tell you, the answer is literally right in front of you.
23:15It's in the things that you wake up and naturally do.
23:18It's the way you think.
23:19It's your favorite color.
23:20It's your sign.
23:22It's where you choose to live.
23:24It's the outfits you like.
23:26Like literally just take the time to assess everything that you like, and really be like,
23:31why do I like these things, and what are their connection points?
23:34And then go back and think about everything that you're good at.
23:37This thing that you don't even have to train for.
23:39You just wake up, and I just always was better at that, or I was always good at math.
23:44Dock that to the side.
23:45And then think about the things that you just want to do for the rest of your life, and
23:48you would do it on your happiest day in the world.
23:51You could do this.
23:52I don't care if it's eating ice cream, playing a video game, and take those three components
23:56and put your puzzle together.
23:58That's going to tell you exactly who you are.
24:00And it doesn't matter, like I have a brother that's three years older than me.
24:03I followed his footsteps everywhere we went.
24:06Same high school, middle school, sport.
24:09We couldn't be more different as adults.
24:12Completely different.
24:13And it's like, that doesn't mean nothing where you come from, how you were raised doesn't
24:16mean nothing.
24:17It's something unique in you.
24:18That's the most unique part about you.
24:19And that's originality, but I don't want to make it seem like it's easy to find yourself.
24:24You got to do the work to find who you are and know who you are.
24:27Yeah.
24:28Thank you.
24:29Thank you so much to the panel.
24:30I really appreciate it, guys.
24:31Thank you.
24:32It's been a great discussion.
24:33Thank you.
24:34Thanks, everyone.
24:35Thank you, guys.
24:36Thank you.
24:37Thank you.
24:38Thank you.
24:39Thank you.