'State-sponsored violence': Haiti's 'real gangsters are in the political spectrum & private sector'
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00:00 And that was James Vecina reporting. Well, for more on this story, I'm joined by Jean-Édouard
00:04 Saint-Paul, a professor at Brooklyn College and founding director of the CUNY Haitian Studies
00:10 Institute. Thanks so much for joining us here on France 24. First of all, can you just help us
00:15 understand why the gangs are targeting this specific neighborhood in the capital, the Salino
00:20 neighborhood, and what are they trying to accomplish here and how do you explain this
00:25 most recent violence? Good evening or good afternoon. Thank you so very much for having me.
00:34 So as a sociologist, I think it's always important to give some context. So what is happening in Haiti
00:44 is what I would call a state-sponsored violence. So Ariane Henry, the prime minister that
00:53 we have in Haiti, was imposed by the international community via a tweet from Madame Hélène Lallim,
01:02 who then was the chief of the Integrated Bureau of the United Nations, commonly known as BUNI,
01:10 in Haiti. So what is happening in Haiti, the gang that we have in Haiti, they are not the
01:16 real gangster. The real gangster, we find them both in the political spectrum and also in the
01:24 private sector or business. And also, Haiti does not manufacture guns. So the guns that are killing
01:31 and kidnapping, raping people in Haiti, those guns, the ammunition, they come straight from
01:37 the United States of America. Now to answer your question about Salino, Salino is what we call in
01:44 French un quartier populaire, is a popular neighborhood. So Salino has been for always
01:50 a site of political resistance. So I see the strategy of armed gangs in Haiti as a strategy
01:56 to divide and conquer. So to put the mass of the poor people once against others, because what is
02:04 going on in the ground in Haiti, we have grassroots, we have members from the civil society who are
02:10 fighting to preserve Haiti's sovereignty and to fight for Haitian dignity. So I see Ariel Henry,
02:17 prime minister de facto, who is illegitimate and illegal as a strong ally of both the local
02:24 retrograde forces and the international community. How do you see this playing out,
02:29 both in the short term and in the longer term? You know, the West has been hesitant to send in
02:34 a peacekeeping force as it did back in 2000. But as I mentioned, we could eventually see troops
02:39 from Kenya arrive there. Do you see that as an effective solution to what's happening on the
02:45 ground? So it's very important in the media to give, you know, the full spectrum of what is
02:52 going on in on one side story. So for instance, about Kenya, there is a strong opposition both
02:59 in Haiti and in the international, in the diaspora. So because we don't think that the international
03:06 call, the solution has to be by Kenya. Haitian people, they have the solution. There is political
03:13 actors in Haiti from the political class and also from civil society. They have some agreement. They
03:19 put some strategy, but the international community doesn't want a solution that comes from the
03:27 Haitian people. They always want to impose a solution, a foreign solution that will never
03:32 work in Haiti. For instance, we have the minister, the mission of the United Nations for the
03:39 stabilization in Haiti. Between 2004 and 2017, a billion of dollars was spent in Haiti, and Haiti
03:48 was more unstable than in 2004. We Haitian people, we are fighting for our sovereignty. We have the
03:56 means. We need, we know the problem, but every time that Haitian people want to find, sit together
04:04 to find a solution, there are some hegemonic actors, both in the international community
04:09 with their local ally, who try to sabotage every Haitian solution. Well, we're running out of time,
04:16 but I want to ask you, I mean, if the solution lies with the Haitian people, what do you think
04:19 it will take to restore order then? So to restore order, we first, we need to the international
04:27 community to give Haiti a chance so Haitian people can figure out the future of the prison
04:36 and the future of their country by themselves. But the international community doesn't want that.
04:41 They want to impose their own solution because Haiti is a country that geopolitically and
04:48 strategically is very important. And I will end with this, a quote. In 1924, it was the first U.S.
04:55 occupation of Haiti. There was a book that was published. The book title was The Geology of the
05:02 Republic of Haiti. That book said how rich, how wealthy Haiti is in terms of natural resources.
05:10 So in terms of conclusion, we don't have to think Haiti as a poor country. Haiti is an
05:15 impoverished country. And what is happening on the ground is to sabotage Haiti, use the gun as a
05:22 strategy to put political chaos that the international community, external actors can
05:27 take advantage of natural resources, land of Haitian people. So the international community
05:35 is part of the problem. Okay, we'll have to leave it there. Jean-Eddie Saint-Paul,
05:39 professor at Bookin College and founding director at CUNY Haitian Studies Institute. Thanks so much
05:44 Thank you so much for having me.
05:46 Thank you so much for having me.