KillerFrogs' writers Nick Girimonte and Davis Wilson the wild week of basketball in the Big 12 and TCU’s two tough losses before KillerFrogs’ writer Tori Couch joins to discuss the state of TCU’s women’s basketball program.
Category
🥇
SportsTranscript
00:00:00 Welcome to episode 11 of Frog Fever, Killer Frogs, Big 12 basketball podcast.
00:00:08 My name is Davis Wilson. That's Nick Germani.
00:00:10 And we've got a lot to talk about this week.
00:00:12 We've got a good episode for you.
00:00:14 We have a pretty wild week in the Big 12.
00:00:18 Basketball wise, we had some interesting TCU performances.
00:00:24 And then we're going to have a little later, we're going to have Torrey Couch on, our Killer Frogs.
00:00:29 Dot com colleague.
00:00:31 And we're going to talk a little bit about what is going on with the TCU women's basketball team, who, if you have not heard, there are some things.
00:00:39 They had to forfeit two games this this week because they don't have enough players.
00:00:44 So we're going to talk to her about that.
00:00:46 See what's going on there.
00:00:47 But first, Nick, let's get into this this week.
00:00:51 That was a wild week for Big 12 basketball.
00:00:54 Yeah, we got a loaded episode for you.
00:00:56 We got, you know, we get to the bottom of whatever happened with women's basketball.
00:01:01 But in regular men's Big 12 basketball, I mean, it was another crazy week.
00:01:07 Yeah, we're down to no undefeated teams, which is crazy.
00:01:10 Tech and K-State stand at the top, which is what everybody expected at the start of 4-1.
00:01:16 But, I mean, there are some funny storylines that really took over the week.
00:01:21 And my favorite was just Texas's whole week together.
00:01:26 So on Tuesday, I believe, or it was either Tuesday or Wednesday, they lost to UCF at home.
00:01:34 They're throwing the horns down.
00:01:36 And then Rodney Terry just erupts like it's life or death.
00:01:41 Like he's like it's a war over there.
00:01:44 He's calling he's calling it a hate crime.
00:01:46 He's getting pissed at every little thing that's happened.
00:01:50 It just shows like a dude who's who's worried about a lot of stuff.
00:01:55 I don't know.
00:01:56 What do you think about that?
00:01:57 That's my favorite story of the week.
00:02:00 That was easily the best story of the week.
00:02:02 We talked a lot about Texas last episode about whether or not we think they're in.
00:02:08 And they just had, you know, a wild week and not a great look, in my opinion, for Hot Rod Terry.
00:02:19 He, you know, I never really understood the deal with the horns down.
00:02:24 Like, I think it's funny.
00:02:26 And Texas people get their feel.
00:02:30 I mean, it really does hurt their feelings.
00:02:31 They don't like it.
00:02:32 So it was interesting.
00:02:34 He he he he was like yelling and scolding the UCF players, like shouting, calling them classless.
00:02:42 Just a weird look, especially after they lose.
00:02:45 Like, I don't know, weird look for sure.
00:02:48 And then they respond and they beat Baylor on Saturday.
00:02:52 So they have a good win now.
00:02:53 They have a you know, they defend their home court finally.
00:02:57 Very interesting.
00:02:58 I don't know that they were they were busy this week.
00:03:01 What do you I mean, what do you think about Texas now?
00:03:04 Are your opinions any different?
00:03:06 Yeah, it's honestly about this the same, I would say.
00:03:10 I would say they're still probably not in like you can't really lose the UCF at home and they barely beat Baylor, which we'll talk about.
00:03:16 But to go back to the Ron and Terry thing, I just think it's funny how.
00:03:22 Because in all of college basketball, you're looking at all these big characters that have left the game, like, yeah, Coach K, Roy Williams, Bayheim, like all these guys who were big and you're kind of looking for the new wave of like emphatic coaches that make college sports what it is.
00:03:42 And it's become like it's funny how the handshake lines in the fights like you got Ron and Terry doing this.
00:03:50 You got Shaka Smart playing defense.
00:03:52 You got Jawan Howard fighting the Wisconsin great guard.
00:03:57 You got got Nate Oates was pushing.
00:04:02 Yeah, Nate Oates pushing my Mizzou player.
00:04:05 Yeah, exactly.
00:04:06 Ridiculous.
00:04:07 Exactly. So it's kind of like a funny standstill where the handshake lines always going to be funny.
00:04:14 You guys got to look out for stuff. But in terms of Rodney Terry, I think it just shows exactly what he is right now.
00:04:23 Texas, like, he seems like he's kind of losing it out there.
00:04:27 He's always screaming at stuff and that that Baylor game whenever is huge for them.
00:04:33 But he was thrown into a situation last year where he had an old experienced team with all of Chris Beards players.
00:04:42 And then he just, in my opinion, got lucky, like just being having such a great job.
00:04:50 Like he wasn't outstanding at Fresno State, I believe, which he was before.
00:04:55 And he just got all this talent that just propelled him to the elite.
00:04:59 And now he's just kind of riding off that. But in his first true season, he seems like it's very up and down.
00:05:05 He doesn't have a massive grasp on what this Texas team is.
00:05:10 Now, it was funny because after the UCF game with all its comments about the horns down and all that kind of stuff, he was like,
00:05:18 I'd never have a team jumping up and down like they won the national championship like that in a game in a regular season game.
00:05:26 And then come Saturday, Baylor hits a three to tie the game at the end of with like five seconds left.
00:05:35 Tyree Southern goes coast to coast and it's a sick game where that's a massive win for Texas.
00:05:40 But it's just funny because you see Ronnie Terry literally jumping up and down like they won the national championship.
00:05:46 So watching Ronnie Terry on the sidelines, I think we should do a power ranking of like coaches we watch on the sidelines just for entertainment.
00:05:55 Like we're talking about how Jamie's one of the top in the nation at that TCU.
00:05:59 But it's it's become must see TV. Yeah. Just watching Ronnie Terry on the sidelines. You can add to the list.
00:06:06 Yeah. Yeah. You mentioned how like Ronnie Terry doesn't know what his team is.
00:06:11 And I don't know if really any of us have a great idea of what is going on in Texas because they're now that that's three, I think, three buzzer beater game winners.
00:06:21 So and that one was they were tied. So right. They were tied. So it wouldn't have been a loss if he missed it.
00:06:27 It would have been overtime. But still, like you're potentially, you know, those three buzzer beaters.
00:06:34 And I know this is unfair to do, but if those three buzzer beaters go differently, Texas one has a has a loss to Louisville, who's terrible.
00:06:44 They have and then they're they're winless in commerce play because they beat Cincinnati on that buzzer beater Max A's miss again.
00:06:51 And then Tyree Sunner on Saturday, a great, a great, a great attack to the basket.
00:06:59 And we'll talk about Baylor's defense. There is pretty pitiful, but like they're a couple shots away from potentially being.
00:07:07 What is that now? Oh, and five and probably the worst.
00:07:12 I mean, we're probably. Talking about them like we're talking about like West Virginia because West Virginia even beat them, so they're interesting.
00:07:21 They keep I mean, they're they're guys are hitting big shots and that you have to credit them for that.
00:07:26 You can't discount those big shots just because it was a close game.
00:07:30 But still, like it is interesting to kind of see what this team is and in a win against Baylor.
00:07:39 At home is a big win either way, even if you barely get there in a win against Cincinnati on the road is looking like it's a pretty good win.
00:07:50 So those are good wins, but it is interesting to see like a couple of things go differently.
00:07:55 And we're talking about Texas. In a really different light, I think.
00:08:02 Yeah, the narrative has definitely been changed. Like I don't think anybody's really saying Texas is like an amazing team, but you're right.
00:08:09 Like if they were out in five in conference with a loss against Louisville and having like and West Virginia, LSU.
00:08:16 Yeah, yeah, exactly. Louisville and West Virginia and having like LSU be your best win.
00:08:22 You're looking at like a horrible season where it's yeah, it's fire. Everybody type stuff.
00:08:29 At that point, it's over. You don't even have a tournament shot, at least not.
00:08:33 Yeah, exactly. You're probably done at this point. Right.
00:08:37 But I mean, the schedule even gets harder. Like you're a really rough.
00:08:42 Yeah. Like as bad as it can possibly get for the big 12. Probably.
00:08:47 I mean, you have three your next four games on the road with the one home game being to Houston, which is arguably still the best one of the best teams in the nation.
00:08:56 Yeah. So you I mean, maybe you ride this momentum from the big Baylor win because that is their signature win of the year.
00:09:03 And that's a very good win for them. But it's it could be scary because.
00:09:09 I mean, the luck could run out fast and then they could they could spiral downhill.
00:09:14 I don't know. Texas still doesn't scare me and I still wouldn't think that they would be in the tournament as today stands.
00:09:20 Yeah. So Ken Palm has them losing six of their next seven games and all five of their next five.
00:09:27 So they so I'll just run through it. They go to Oklahoma. And Oklahoma beat Cincinnati on the road yesterday.
00:09:34 And we've we found out that Cincinnati is a tough place to play and that's a good win for Oklahoma.
00:09:40 So if you had any doubts about Oklahoma, they're still very good.
00:09:45 Then you go to BYU, which is another really big home court advantage.
00:09:50 And BYU is still ninth in Ken Palm. They lost to Texas Tech yesterday, Saturday, but they beat Iowa State on Tuesday.
00:10:00 So, I mean, and then you like you said, they they host Houston.
00:10:06 Finally, they get a home game. Then they go to TCU and then they host Iowa State and then they host West Virginia, which who knows about that?
00:10:15 That's supposed to be the one win in the next seven. But who knows, man, they already lost to West Virginia.
00:10:20 So it gets really tough. And then after West Virginia, we can keep going. They they have to go to Houston.
00:10:26 So it is brutal. The next like month, month of basketball for Texas is going to be really tough.
00:10:34 And there is a scenario where they don't like they come out of it with one or two wins, which would, you know, that would really be not ideal.
00:10:46 Yeah, it's it's starting to spiral downhill and the brand that is Texas could start to panic fast because you need success a lot of years with them.
00:10:56 Yeah. What about Baylor? How about I mean, what do you think about the so they went they lost both of their games this week.
00:11:06 They lost to Kansas State in overtime. Of course, Kansas State does not lose in overtime.
00:11:14 Yeah. And then they lose to Texas. Both those games are on the road. So those are tough.
00:11:18 But. I don't know, man, they made they let Tyree Sunder go straight to the rim after tying it up with a big three, they just let him.
00:11:29 I mean, they just let him go to the rim. And I remember after the Houston game, Houston TCU game, we were we were in there in the postgame with Kelvin Samson.
00:11:41 And he was talking about how you never call a timeout there. You just you just let your you get it into your playmakers hands and you let him go downhill.
00:11:49 And that's it didn't work for Houston against TCU. But that you see why it works there when you give it to Tyree Sunder and just let him go.
00:11:57 Because Baylor, there was no resistance like he got to the basket in like four seconds.
00:12:03 So Baylor's defense is something we have been concerned about. And that was. That was just I mean, really the one thing you couldn't do in that situation.
00:12:16 Yeah, they the they the 59 defense in Kanpan, which has actually been better from where they were at the start of the year.
00:12:22 But that's going to be the Achilles heel for them all year is their lack of size and our lack of defense.
00:12:28 But in terms of looking at them from a broader standpoint, just losing two games, I think it's more a testament to what the big 12 schedule is.
00:12:37 Yeah. Like you have two away games in a week and you like one possession difference in either games and it's two wins.
00:12:46 So the narrative can switch just like that, as we saw with TCU's week, like a couple of losses in one overtime and one by technically a bucket.
00:12:56 I know is obviously a different style of games, but I mean, you can be riding so high and hit so low, so fast.
00:13:05 So I think it just I wouldn't overreact to these losses necessarily from Baylor.
00:13:11 But as you said, it is something to to watch is how good Baylor's defense.
00:13:18 Is during conference play and how improved it is, because it has improved a lot this season, like I remember earlier in the year when they, you know, lost to Michigan State, they gave up like 90 or something to them.
00:13:29 And they'd lie. I think they lost a Duke right after that, too. And they gave up a lot.
00:13:33 So and a lot of people are calling for their defense, as I think I even said, like they're they're just soft at times in their defense.
00:13:42 Like you have to be hard nosed at times. And Scott Drew's best teams have been defensive base, which I think is funny how it's kind of transformed into elite offensive guards that can just strike fast at any moment.
00:13:57 But I still think Baylor's I don't know, a top three, top five team in the Big 12.
00:14:03 And I wouldn't worry too much about these two losses. Yeah, I agree.
00:14:09 What about we'll talk about obviously there was a big upset yesterday.
00:14:14 West Virginia beat Kansas. But before we do that, what are your thoughts on UCF?
00:14:21 Because now UCF starting to rattle off a couple of big wins. They they got smoked by Houston yesterday on Saturday.
00:14:29 They scored 42 points, which is exactly what Houston will do to you. But they they now have wins over Kansas and Texas.
00:14:38 And those are pretty much the only ones they have, but they are a scrappy team and they're 72 and Kim Palm and I think they're like 67 in net.
00:14:51 So they're right around there. They're they're a couple big wins away from probably sneaking into a bubble conversation, maybe.
00:14:59 I mean, are you there yet or do you think they have some work to do? Yeah, I'd still probably wait because they they didn't have any good wins in non-conference.
00:15:07 But it's again, as we've said, like there's no wins you can pence on the Big 12 and every team is good.
00:15:14 As we saw with West Virginia and UCF just this week. But I mean, you probably with UCF non-conference being bad, you probably have to finish 500 non-conference and they're two and three right now.
00:15:27 So it's definitely a possibility. Like I think we said earlier, if any team, if they get hot, can get themselves in a conversation because any win in the Big 12 is either quad one or quad two.
00:15:43 So I I would keep an eye out for him because I think two and three is a success in their first five games.
00:15:50 I mean, they've kind of had a tough slate like K stayed away. That's a fine loss. Kansas at home, like great win.
00:15:57 BYU, you know, whatever. They almost lost. Yeah, exactly.
00:16:02 Like in that they're feisty for sure. But and they've got kind of a gettable stretch ahead. They've got West Virginia at home, Cincinnati on the road, Baylor.
00:16:12 And then a little later, obviously, those are tough, but you get West Virginia twice for the rest of the season.
00:16:17 You get Oklahoma State. So there's someone I mean, I'm interested.
00:16:22 I'm not going to put them in the bubble area yet, but they are like I don't know if they rattle off a couple of big wins.
00:16:29 They're a team that's kind of fun. I love I love watching Jalen Sellers.
00:16:33 He had like 24, I think, against Texas or something like maybe 26.
00:16:38 But he's a fun score. He's not all that efficient, but he's fun. And I think they're a fun team.
00:16:43 They're one of those kind of. Like scrappy, I mean, it always makes me curious what they'd be if they were like.
00:16:51 I don't know, in a different conference where they could kind of I mean, the Big 12 is just so tough.
00:16:56 And actually they have like what I didn't know until looking at it now, they have a top 10 defense in the country.
00:17:02 So it's really their offense. It's not efficient. So I'm interested where they go.
00:17:07 Yeah, their offense is 202 in the nation. So it's tough.
00:17:11 But if they they can win those ugly games that they've that they've shown, like like they won 65, 60 to Kansas.
00:17:18 And, you know, I mean, they just played Houston in a 57, 42 ugly games they lost.
00:17:23 But, yeah, definitely any team in the Big 12 is playing for something, because if you get hot, you can make the tournament or I mean, even NIT, which is a successful season for UCF.
00:17:33 Yeah. But yeah, definitely something to keep an eye out on. Yeah.
00:17:37 Three of their next four at home. I'll be I'll be keeping an eye on. I'm kind of rooting for them.
00:17:41 I like their I like Johnny Dawkins and I like their team a little bit.
00:17:46 But let's talk about Kansas and West Virginia. What do you what are your immediate immediate thoughts on that game?
00:17:54 Yeah, the more and more Kansas loses these games, I start to really worry about them.
00:18:01 I mean, their depth is a massive, massive issue, and they've gotten to stay healthy, fortunately.
00:18:10 Yeah. Yeah. And even with that, they're so, so thin, like they finally made a switch in the starting lineup to put in Johnny Furphy for a marker.
00:18:19 Jackson, a marker. Jackson was the five star freshman. I was supposed to use not be the next Kansas guard.
00:18:25 Yeah. And he's been horrible, to be honest. But they you just can't buy into them right now is making a deep March run because they don't have those guys that if you get in a foul trouble
00:18:39 or if you just you're having an off night here or there, like you don't have guys that can pick it up for you.
00:18:45 And losing games to UCF and West Virginia in the first five, five games of conference is not good.
00:18:53 And we can go back and forth with the TCU thing. But, I mean, they almost lost that one, too.
00:18:59 So they've had the signature wins in non-conference in there like McCullough and Dickinson are arguably two of the top, I don't know, five players in the nation.
00:19:11 Best duo in the country, I'd say. Yeah, hands down. And, you know, that alone could take you to enough.
00:19:20 But I mean, if I was filling out a bracket right now, I don't know if I could have Kansas going past like the Sweet 16.
00:19:27 Yeah, it's interesting. That's interesting. That's a that's a interesting thought, because when you have two guys that good,
00:19:36 it's weird because they can get hot in March and they can just like those two alone could could propel them to like a final four.
00:19:45 I could see that. But also in March, you play. I mean, every team you play is good for the most part.
00:19:53 You're not deep. And the thing is, like, we haven't seen it yet.
00:19:57 We haven't really seen someone get in foul trouble for them. We haven't really seen any injuries for them.
00:20:03 But those things happen throughout the season. And I'm curious to see if and when it's going to happen.
00:20:10 What are they going to look like? How are they going to deal with that?
00:20:13 Like, what if what if Hunter Dickinson has to miss like a stretch of like two or three games?
00:20:19 Like what then? They don't have anything. I mean, then it's all on McCuller.
00:20:23 And I don't you know, and then he has no help.
00:20:26 He's got like K.J. Jackson, who's been playing pretty well this year, but they have like six or seven playable guys.
00:20:33 And that I just don't I mean, we've I've been saying that since this podcast started.
00:20:37 I just don't feel like that's enough. But. And they don't. Yeah, they don't really have a great conference win.
00:20:44 Like you can say the TCU win was great, but it wasn't really for them because I don't.
00:20:50 No one in this country is convinced that they really won that game.
00:20:54 We don't have to talk about that, but they I mean, they they beat Oklahoma, which is a good win.
00:20:59 They beat Oklahoma State, which you should be to Oklahoma State.
00:21:03 But now they have losses to UCF and West Virginia. Both those games are on the road.
00:21:09 So you cut them a little slack there. But I am. I'm not super worried about them, but I am.
00:21:16 I do have my. My questions about them, they're they're top 30 in both offensive, defense, adjusted efficiency and Kim Palm.
00:21:26 They don't. But they don't really, you know, for the team that we expect to be a top team, they don't stick out.
00:21:32 They don't have like a, you know, like a top 10 unit.
00:21:36 So it's interesting. I don't know. I don't know what to think about them.
00:21:39 They just are not deep and they they keep losing these games that they.
00:21:45 Probably should not be losing. Yeah, I think I think Kansas is overrated by the AP voters just because they have dudes like they probably wouldn't do it off with any other team in the country.
00:21:59 Just strictly off. I don't know their core four of Dwan, KJ Dickinson and McCullough.
00:22:07 But when you again, if you take like five minutes, take a deeper look into this team, like there's nothing that screams top five team in the nation at you in terms of all their metrics.
00:22:18 Like their losses are bad there. I mean, they that's the thing, too.
00:22:24 Like they could be any team in the country. You just can't buy them right now as much as a.
00:22:31 Purdue probably or a Yukon or teams of that caliber because they can run so much deeper and I would even put Houston above them.
00:22:40 But you're definitely picky about.
00:22:45 Kansas because they have all this talent, like if you're coming preseason number one, like you're going to be held to the standard and they haven't met it yet in 15 to three and three team conference so far has been a underwhelming performance for them so far.
00:23:00 But I do panic a little because I mean, Kansas, you're there to win a national championship.
00:23:07 You're not here to make a sweet 16 run. So it's scary.
00:23:13 Yeah, exactly. Expectations are different. They're 18 and Kim Palm, they're 14 and net.
00:23:19 So that's and then there are three and eight people. So they are really largely getting overrated.
00:23:26 I think they are probably like a top 15 top 10 somewhere around their squad.
00:23:31 But when you have the national championship aspirations, this is a little bit of a concerning start.
00:23:38 And I just worry about what happens when like one of them, like one player, like one of their starting five, what happens when one of those guys, or I guess the core for that you mentioned, one of those guys has to go out for a small, even a small stretch that that worries me about this seem so.
00:23:56 I don't know, we'll keep an eye on them. But on the other side, West Virginia is still proving that they're that scrappy team that really doesn't have anything to lose.
00:24:05 Rayquan battles, continuing to hoop.
00:24:10 So like, when you when you see your team have a game against West Virginia on the schedule, I think you can't really say, Oh, thank God, it's West Virginia.
00:24:20 They're, they're a little scrappy. They have wins against Kansas and Texas, which I think is not the exact same as UCF.
00:24:31 Um, yeah, I think they're kind of similar in that sense. And they play this week. So that'll be fun to kind of funny teams.
00:24:39 But yeah, what do you what do you think about West Virginia? And like Rayquan battles return? I think all that has been good for them. They're obviously nowhere close to good team, but they are like, you can't take a game against them for granted now.
00:24:54 Yeah, I think Rayquan battle alone just puts them at hand beat you territory because he can just, I mean, he's a bucket getter. Like he has has a deep bag, he can shoot from all areas of the floor.
00:25:09 He can just give you 30 on a night and then you look up and you're trailing to West Virginia. But as you said to like, they've dug himself in such a deep hole that they're not going to make the tournament like they're not conference was that bad.
00:25:23 And unless they just win the big 12 for some random reason, which is not going to happen. They're not going to do that. But yeah, Rayquan battle alone gives you that factor of can beat you any night and any big 12 team if you sleep a little bit gum, they'll they'll catch you.
00:25:44 Yeah, Kim Palm has them losing out. So that tells you something, but they are a little, they're kind of feisty. And they Yeah, they beat it. I mean, yeah, they're beating good teams. And they're just they had a disaster start and and then they get like, when they don't win in the big 12, they get smoked like they their first game was against Houston, they'd lost by like, was that 34 points or something.
00:26:13 Then they get they have Kansas State and lose by 14. And then they also lose by 14 Oklahoma. Those are the three losses and then your three wins. I mean, your two wins in the big 12 are close competitive games. So they're weird team there. They're either going to get blown out or they're going to win. So
00:26:31 yeah, I mean, point Blake there. Like, yeah, they're not good. They it's like, it's like the wizards or something when you have like you're bad, but you have Jordan pool that could give you like 50 or like Brad Beal back in the day when he was dropping like 32 a night, like they could catch you because they have a dude that can score I mean, he's, he's, is used on 33% of their possessions when he's in the game,
00:27:00 which is like, unfathomable. That's a third of the time he's shooting on when he's on the floor. So I mean, they're just playing through him. And yeah, he has the ability to give you 30 plus. So yeah, I'm gonna look out for him.
00:27:17 All right, let's do the bubble segment in or out wrong or right side of the bubble. Who do you have this week?
00:27:23 Yeah, the first one I want to talk about a Cincinnati because we saw them BTC, which we'll get more into. But, and then they come in loose to Oklahoma at home. So they're kind of right there.
00:27:38 Um, in the in that, like, perfect. They could be both of them right now. Like it would be they'd be right on it. Selection Sunday was today. So, um, I don't know. I'm interested to see what you think. Do you want to go first?
00:27:53 Yeah, I'll go first. I am. I was super impressed with their team. There. I was also even more impressed probably by the atmosphere at Cincinnati. Like I could feel that through the TV was it was so loud in there. And, you know, TCU has free throw problems regardless, but they couldn't.
00:28:12 I mean, they're often TCU's offense completely shut down in the last couple minutes. It just seems like a really tough place to play. But I'll talk about like, so they're what are they three and they're two and three right now.
00:28:26 And then they have wins over BYU and TCU, both of which were good wins. So like, I mean, we talk about Texas being a couple shots away from being a disaster. Oh, and Florida, they're losing to Oklahoma.
00:28:43 So they're a fun team. Resume wise right now. I do think they have it. I think I would put them inside the bubble right now. I think they're going to be a fun team. I think the way they play is just so. I mean, I think the way their team is set up is so.
00:29:01 I think they're going to be a fun team. Resume wise right now. I do think they have it. I think I would put them inside the bubble. Kim Palm has them as the 33rd best team, I believe. And looking at net, net has them at 36. So their metrics say they're inside the bubble.
00:29:23 I will agree with that because I like their squad. I think they're playing fun basketball and. I would put them on the right side of the bubble.
00:29:35 Yeah, their squad really impressed me. I was mainly worried about like big Victor down low because he had struggled with big man in the past. But in that game, like just watching closely as a TCU family, they had so many guys that kill you day to day.
00:29:53 It was given us buckets after buckets. John Newman, like they combined for 41 in that game. Dan skillings was an athletic freak. It was just they have an all around team that you wouldn't expect. And as you said, 33 can't pump 36 net. They they like him.
00:30:11 And if you finish around that 500 in conference, which two and three, it's not a horrible start coming in with a tougher schedule. You would like for them to you would have liked for them to beat. Oh, you at home. I think they were favorite in that game.
00:30:24 So that was kind of a step back, which makes them like literally right on that cusp or it go either way. But the signature wins at BYU and against TCU, which is, I think, still a really good win.
00:30:38 Yeah. Yeah. So I would I would keep them in. Yeah. And they've got they've got Kansas on the road, which good luck winning in Lawrence, regardless of how well you play. And then they have UCF, West Virginia, Texas Tech.
00:30:52 Two of those three are on the road, but those are all games they can win. And then it gets tougher with Houston, Iowa State. But still, they've got to when you I mean, no stretch in the big 12 is favorable.
00:31:05 But when you in terms of big 12, that's a favorable stretch for them. They have an opportunity to get back a couple of those wins that maybe they feel like they should have gotten earlier against, you know, maybe a Texas or Baylor, Oklahoma.
00:31:17 Kimpom hasn't projected to finish nine and nine in the conference, which I think is good enough. I think that gets you in.
00:31:25 And yeah, a good start for them. The Oklahoma win, like you said, would have been massive. But Oklahoma is a good team.
00:31:32 And really, that was more I think that's more of a really good win for Oklahoma than a bad loss to since for Cincinnati. So I would. Yeah, I like them. They're inside the bubble for me.
00:31:43 Yeah, I like him, too. Do you want to do the next one? Kansas State? Ooh, I can start. Yeah, you start.
00:31:54 Kansas State is coming off that oh, two win a Baylor and then a home win against Oklahoma State. So a great week for them. They're four and one tied for top in the conference, which we definitely did not see when we did our re power rankings right before big 12 conference.
00:32:12 I think I put UCF above them, which probably is looking dumb right now. But I would still have them know are on the wrong side of the bubble for right now.
00:32:26 Just by a smidge, the uniform one of the 12 is super impressive. But their metrics, they're 56 in Kenham and 71 in net.
00:32:36 And I don't know what to think of these overtime wins. I don't know if it's skills. I guess you do it enough times. It's got to be like, oh, like you can win the close one, which is a scum of a tank tanks.
00:32:48 And then you have a guy like 11 now or 10 and oh, and still has overtime wins game. Yeah, it's absurd, which I want to say it's lucky like they're five and oh this year, but at some point, you just probably got to give them props.
00:33:02 It scares me because yes, they're for one and yes, every game of the big 12 is tough. So that's super impressive. But three of their four wins were UCF, West Virginia and Oklahoma with their loss being the tech and their other one being an overtime win, as we said, and they go at Iowa State at Houston home against Oklahoma.
00:33:21 So I think when it comes down to it, looking ahead, they are probably going to drop some of those games and they will still fall a little bit short of the tournament. Yeah, I remember when earlier earlier in the season before big 12 place started, we talked about them a lot.
00:33:38 They had three overtime wins in a row. And I remember saying this on the pod, I said, Jerome Tang is not going to win every overtime game. So you can't expect them to but he is he's he might I don't know he might just win every overtime game for the rest of his life.
00:33:56 So I think that would be probably I mean, I don't know this team. They like as far as big 12 starts go, they had a pretty easy start. They had UCF at home, West Virginia on the road, Texas Tech on the road, Baylor home, Oklahoma State at home.
00:34:16 So like those are tough games, but they're four and one. The only really good win of those four is Baylor. The other three, you probably expect them to win regardless. I would also have them on the outside. I don't like how much net dislikes them. I don't like how much Ken Palm dislikes them.
00:34:37 I think going starting four and one is huge in the big 12. But I would expect a bit of a regression going forward. They've got a pretty tough stretch coming up. Ken Palm does have them finishing nine and nine in the conference.
00:34:52 So that's I mean, like we said, that's probably enough. That's right on the bubble for you probably. But right now, there's still something about the scene that I don't love. And I would have them just barely on the outside of that bubble.
00:35:09 Yeah, it could go either way. As you said, because they have the talent to be good, like they were predicted to be really good for the season. You didn't know what Tom would bring to them. And that loss has been huge in their offense has just been kind of inconsistent.
00:35:24 Tyler Perry has been inconsistent. Kahlouma has been inconsistent. Cam Carter, they just don't have they haven't fully clicked it. Maybe they have being four and one conference and that'll stick. But yeah, they they had they definitely are right there of making it but with how they've been so consistent so far, I just can't trust them to rack off a lot of these wins in the end.
00:35:49 Yeah, I agree. They get Iowa State and Houston both on the road this week. That's really, really, that's just about as tough as it gets. So we'll see about them. We'll see how they what kind of week they have will probably be having this conversation again next week. But yeah, I'm, I'm going to keep them outside of the bubble for now.
00:36:14 All right, do you want to let's take a quick break and then we'll come back and talk.
00:36:20 TCU wild week of basketball. Let's do it.
00:36:27 All right, TCU went oh and two this week. They had a road loss to Cincinnati in a home lost Iowa State.
00:36:37 We'll start with Cincinnati because that was a really good game that was on that Tuesday where every single big 12 game was good. I'm pretty sure maybe not every single one but that was one of the most fun game days of college basketball I can remember watching.
00:36:55 And that was a great game. A very, very, very winnable game for TCU. What were your thoughts on that loss and how concerned are you about it.
00:37:06 Yeah, we had that game.
00:37:20 We had that missed free throws with Uday that could have clinched it but I mean I think Dede Thomas missed free throws for them too so it was just a really weird game. Shot selection was bad.
00:37:32 Tennyson pulled too early at the end of regulation and then Jacoby at the end. Probably that three wasn't the best in that scenario, but you can't look and blame one person or one moment in that game it was just a wild college basketball game, as we talked about Cincinnati before like they're electric they have data Thomas and Newman killers all night.
00:37:58 They seem like they can miss the real issue of this game is that I have that showed up big in Iowa State is the turnovers.
00:38:07 Especially from the guard position, Avery Anderson six turnovers Jameer for we had 19 to their 15, which was probably the difference in the game.
00:38:30 This can bite you in the ass so hard, which we saw that, like, this has been such a trend for TCU and it'll probably come up again later in the year where you have to be able to execute better on the half court side of the ball when teams hold you in like Cincinnati and Iowa State have really really really good defenses, and we saw with Houston to like we started with half court we pulled out a win because our defense was good and we kind of found our groove later on.
00:38:59 But you need to execute and you need to take care of the ball, because we got off to this super hot start in Cincinnati and then we go through these runs where we, it seems like we can't put a ball in the basket we saw at the start of the Houston game we saw it at the end of the second half in Cincinnati so I don't want this to become a trend when it's turnovers and the guards not taking care of the ball but that's what it has been this week.
00:39:27 Yeah, I was gonna mention how the offense is fell apart at the end of regulation and Cincinnati.
00:39:34 So Ernest dooday makes a ESPN calls it a two point tip shot with five minutes and 22 seconds left in the game to make it 64 to 58 TCU.
00:39:46 They don't score again until Trey Tennyson hits a three with 24 seconds left to make it 6765 so that's basically five minutes of nothing, and you cannot do that.
00:40:03 When, especially when you have the game you have the game that was there's to win and they just couldn't do it. The other thing I remember when we were at the Houston game.
00:40:12 TC went 16 of 29 from the free throw line.
00:40:16 And I told myself, at some point, like they got lucky today but at some point free throws are absolutely going to hurt this team and that's what happened.
00:40:25 They had, I mean they were six of 12 from the free throw line 50%. That's terrible.
00:40:31 And they had so many chances to win at the end like Ernest had the one literally a three seconds left there. I mean that wasn't the only one on he.
00:40:41 I mean, the whole team just couldn't I mean my compete miss free throws down the stretch he went over to.
00:40:48 Like, the easiest stuff the simplest stuff just score the basketball. They couldn't score.
00:40:56 You know on the floor and they can score from the free throw lines, it was just a.
00:41:00 It was just they could they fell apart, really, it was an extremely winnable game for them and I'm sure they feel like they let that one get away.
00:41:11 Yeah, definitely. I mean certainly frustrating the only silver lining about that Iowa State game I think was that they were 20 of 26 from the free throw line which is 77% which is, you know, that's fine.
00:41:23 But I'm concerned about their free throws I'm concerned about the turnovers the guards a little bit I'm concerned about the half court.
00:41:33 But I don't think I mean, you know, we can transition to more Iowa State talk but those are two obviously good teams and two winnable games.
00:41:44 It's frustrating but I don't my mind hasn't changed a ton about how good this team can be, you know.
00:41:52 Yeah, I think what's so big when you're in the big 12 is that not to get too high on the highs not to get too low on the lows because none of this matters until March, just just you got to get in, like, you can over.
00:42:08 It's tough not to overreact for the big wins when you beat the number nine number two teams last week that you're one of the best teams in the nation, and then you go around it's like, oh we suck like the real, the realistic thing is that you're somewhere in between.
00:42:24 It's just so frustrating when you have this talent.
00:42:42 I would love to see him and be more aggressive I think and just kind of take over games on his own because I think he can do it more than he's doing.
00:43:10 I mean, he's got a bunch of switch on them and he'll just, you know, keep going with the offense which is fine but if that's not working at some point you have to be able to take over as the best player on the team.
00:43:19 Yeah.
00:43:20 Yeah, earlier this episode we talked about how like Cincinnati was a couple, a couple little things away from being five and oh four and one TCU is the same way.
00:43:30 TCU has three losses are two and three in conference play by combine like seven points.
00:43:49 I mean, I think you're going to have to be one of those because, you know, big 12 wins are really hard to come by, regardless of who you are.
00:44:01 But, you know, it's a good team so they have issues we knew they had issues we knew about these exact I mean everything that we've mentioned the half court, the guards.
00:44:12 The free throws have all kind of been question marks throughout the season for us.
00:44:17 So we knew this was, you know, going to happen and this is obviously the toughest conference of basketball so you're going to have stretch, you're gonna have weeks where you go to, to know like last week and you're going to have weeks we go into like this week, you just can't let it.
00:44:31 You can't let it affect the team too much. And I don't know, let's start we can talk about Iowa State because that was really the much more concerning loss for me, then compared to the Cincinnati one I was much more worried about that Iowa State game because it ended up being a one point game, but if you watch the game you know it was really never that close until the last like two minutes.
00:44:58 So, I don't know what did you think about that game, I don't remember the, what was the final turnover count like 27, which is almost unfathomable like totally like they're like six one first three minutes, they yeah it was couldn't handle it.
00:45:15 It was unbelievable because you saw what happened in the Cincinnati game and in the overtime game you had 19 which is horrible.
00:45:37 But then they show that, like, it was this game was so funny because it showed the worst of TC and show the best of TCU, like it would be turnovers bad half court horrible, and they tease you because they go on a 10 nothing run out of nowhere by pushing the ball and trade was good in threes and like we are so explosive, but we can struggle so much at the same time.
00:46:05 Like, I mean you should be an Iowa State team without lipsy who we is their best player at home, which is so tough because both these games are so winnable games.
00:46:17 But, I mean that's what comes with the big 12 you just have to figure out the turn it's, it was kind of the same.
00:46:36 But, I mean, the more you look at the team, the more I watch this team I think that the difference maker for TCU is going to be Trey Tennyson.
00:46:51 Obviously, Emanuel Miller is the best player on this team, one of the best players in the conference.
00:47:09 And I know we lost TCU lost to those three games, but I think that when he's going like you saw he got going at the end that's why it became a close game.
00:47:22 I really think it's going to teach you my it might be one of those things where they go as far as he goes. And he's not it's interesting because he's not the star he's just the guy who's going to make threes he's the only one really that you can trust to make threes at a consistent clip.
00:47:40 And it's good to see him kind of settle in and start to put together some of those more consistent performances.
00:47:51 But I'm happy with what he's doing. And, you know, as far as the other guards Avery and Jameer and Micah even, there are definitely things they need to get better at and I think they will but I like what Trey's doing and he's given this team a chance
00:48:08 even when they're playing terrible basketball like the first.
00:48:12 I want to say like 30 when the run start at the end.
00:48:18 It was interesting. I mean it was kind of late like I remember we were down five minutes, well with like four minutes left and they ripped out like the hypnotic graphic and then we went on like an eight nothing right out of the honor for which is high, but yeah so that.
00:48:32 So it was like 36 minutes of the worst basketball I've seen TC play all year. And then four minutes of some of the most exciting basketball I've seen TC play all year so you said it like it was, we got a little bit of everything.
00:48:48 But I think this team needs to be more consistent. They did the same thing against Cincinnati they played a majority really solid basketball and then fell apart at the end so I think it's going to be steamies to figure out how to play complete 40 minutes, and then over time if you need to, and that's tough to do against the, the level of competition you see but
00:49:12 I want to see a little bit more consistency from them I think.
00:49:16 Yeah, definitely and hopefully that'll come. Yeah, once you get more and more reps together like I thought I'd click last week when we rattled off this two games but then you have to learn not to get too, you know, over exaggerated by these by these results.
00:49:32 Um, but yeah as you said Trey was a bright spot in this game, he's definitely a spark plug for this team when you need quick points just find him and he could just get hot, out of any means, it's him and like Chuck once a month will just go for a random 30 but outside of that he doesn't do much.
00:49:49 Another I thought it actually was pretty good. He was eight of 10 from free throws he was eight of eight at one point, which I jinxed him because I said it again next week, you know, always, who does a debate for free so then he's missing next to which is on me.
00:50:07 But overall, there's still a bright spots and his team still really good I would like to see a man take more than eight shots.
00:50:30 But overall, you have to clean up the turnovers is the main takeaway from this week because having 12 turnovers from your backcourt alone is horrible and if you want to throw and try to like your three guards had 15 turnovers, which is insane.
00:50:47 Yeah, only three, three of the 10 guys who saw the court against Iowa State had finished the game with zero turnovers everyone else had at least one, which is concerning, to say the least but yeah you use like you said, I still feel really good about TCU there.
00:51:12 They're really good basketball team they just ran into two really good basketball teams and they happen to play the worst basketball they've played all year against one of the, you know, I think I would say it's probably a top 10 team in the country, right around there.
00:51:27 So you play your worst basketball against one of the best teams in the nation, and really one of the best defenses the nation.
00:51:36 It's never going to end well and it was interesting, like you saw Houston's defense and they didn't completely panic like they did against Iowa State and, you know, those are both good defenses but I thought that the preparation you got from the Houston game would
00:51:51 help them kind of manage the defense that Iowa State played but they had so much trouble right away, right away you kind of knew that it would, it would be a messy game from TCU, and it was.
00:52:08 Yeah, it sucks because now the week non-conference comes back into play where you're two and three you start to creep back in the bubble conversation, I still think they're in right now but they're probably on the bubble, you know, they're probably in that like 16 team group of, if you lose, like if they lose to Oklahoma State and Baylor they're probably out of the tournament as it stands, you know what I mean, like it's back to cut there where you felt pretty safe a week ago but now you drop two winnable games and now you're right back into it which
00:52:37 the ebbs and flows of this conference is insane. But, I mean you're looking for a bounce back, you're at Oklahoma State which they're hungry for a win like I think that is going to be a lot tougher than it looks on paper, just because they're, they haven't got a winning conference but going there kind of scares me a little and you're away at Baylor so it's, it's a tough week coming up.
00:53:01 Yeah, it doesn't get any tougher. Usually when you lose two in a row you're like, all right, what can we get, like, how can we respond, they have to get, they're on the road this whole week that, you know, you said they play Oklahoma and Stillwater that they play Baylor and Waco, which that game is going to be Baylor's, you know, Baylor students and fans are going to show up for that game I guarantee it.
00:53:24 So like you have two road games against, you know, two teams that you can beat but two teams that also can beat you so it's just so scary that's why I love watching Big 12 basketball because it's just every single game.
00:53:39 I mean, neither of the teams can win regardless of how like, for example, Oklahoma State regardless that they're, it doesn't matter really that their own five and garments play I still absolutely think that they are capable of beating a TCU team at home like that, you know, so it's a, it's fun because you have to watch out for every single team you play.
00:54:02 But yeah, it doesn't really get much I mean it, it does get easier in the sense that Oklahoma State is not as good as Cincinnati and Ohio State, or sorry and Iowa State.
00:54:12 But, so in that sense, yeah, it's a little easier of a week but you're on the road all week.
00:54:31 Definitely.
00:54:33 Yeah, definitely.
00:54:35 Um, you want to start previewing more specifically games. Yep, yep. Let's do it.
00:54:40 So yeah, we'll start with Oklahoma State. We talked about that a little bit already Oklahoma State's own five there 115th and Ken bomb.
00:54:48 They, their losses are Baylor Texas Tech, I was take Kansas Kansas State all pretty good teams.
00:54:58 Yeah, I don't know what do you think.
00:55:01 Yeah, they took Baylor to overtime.
00:55:04 They're capable of scaring you a little bit.
00:55:08 Yes, we just said, like, they're going to be hungry for when they're not a tough team.
00:55:14 They kind of have similar issues TC over there turnovers are horrible. They're three to 20th on the nation turnover percentage PCs 231 which isn't good either but that's going to be an issue for them which helps TC is defense, because that's what gets them going out in transition.
00:55:34 Outside of that they run a bit of a slower pace, I don't know if that's just like lack of talent getting quick open shots, or just what they're trying to do but that has been a struggle for TC in the past so I'm turning the ball over and getting them out fast and not letting Oklahoma State set up on offense and wind him down and an ugly game which TC doesn't thrive well not ugly games.
00:56:02 I think we're when Oklahoma State's a little bit more inexperienced, but you can't sleep on them, and I'm worried if Oklahoma State keeps dropping games like boy, probably in the hot seat might be his last year if it keeps going down south but yeah, I think, I think to see a one, I don't know.
00:56:24 They're still really good and I think they're going to be super hungry as well.
00:56:30 Yeah, their experience their style play translates well enough with Oklahoma State that I think their talent will just win it in the end.
00:56:40 I feel like TCU and Oklahoma State always play like banger banger games, they're always good.
00:56:47 And Avery Anderson going back to Stillwater. That's gonna mean a little, little something to him I'm sure.
00:56:55 Like, there's no doubt about it this you should win this game TCU should win this game especially because they need that about, you know, you kind of need a bounce back when you can't keep losing games.
00:57:06 And this is the easiest game they get until February 12 against West Virginia.
00:57:11 So, it's not a must win. But it's, it's one of the, it would be very nice if they did win.
00:57:22 But yeah, Oklahoma State's kind of that desperate, nothing to lose team that can get anyone I think so that's, that should be a win, I don't, we can't mark it down as a win but it should be a win.
00:57:39 You should be three and three going into the really big game against Baylor in Waco. What do you think about that game.
00:57:47 Yeah, that game is going to be tough I mean, with that rivalry it's, it's the new arena, I think I'm just trying to get down there, see see what's going on, it's tickets drop but yeah it's, it's going to be, it's going to be an awesome environment.
00:58:03 Baylor's super good. As we've talked about, one of the best teams and this is arguably with the new big 12.
00:58:12 Maybe the best rivalry in the conference, I don't know if I want to say that but it's definitely out there.
00:58:20 What's good for the TCU is that Baylor plays with not a great defense. So, you can't be really tied down to being able to like their guards probably won't create as much turnovers as other teams have in the big 12 so you kind of play that style.
00:58:42 Baylor shoots a three they're the best three point shooting team in the nation so guard defense by Jameer Avery and Tennyson, I mean they have all the top guards they got Ray J they got Jacoby Walter talked about Jaden nine likes and love.
00:58:58 I mean, I think a lot of like highlight plays will happen, Baylor does play this lower pace which doesn't play right into tissues style.
00:59:14 I mean, getting my head they probably lose this game, because it's just so tough and, but anything that happened I think that environment would just be crazy that day that tempers will be flying, I'm really looking forward to this game.
00:59:26 Yeah, me too. This is, it's going to be nice this week for TCU, because, but neither the defenses they play Oklahoma State or Baylor. Neither of them have like those great defenses, they've seen like weekend a week out their game in and game out so far in the big 12
00:59:43 like Kansas has a top as a top 30 defense, Oklahoma, as a top 20 defense Houston obviously is the best defense in the country Cincinnati has a top 20 defense Iowa State is the third best defense in the country so you're just getting pelted with these really,
01:00:01 really good defenses from all angles, and then you finally get Oklahoma State who's at one and Kim palm defensive efficiency and then Baylor who's 59 so it's gettable the offense is going to be able to breathe a little bit more than they were against Iowa State, no doubt.
01:00:20 But then yeah you look at like, how do you feel about tissues defense against Baylor his offense which is one of the best units in the country.
01:00:30 Yeah, I worry about it. That's the downfall of having tennis in in the lineup I think, and I didn't think the effort was as good as it should have been.
01:00:41 I was like in Iowa State so I do worry about that like even with Jameer and Avery I do think Jameer especially has that body where you know he seems like he can match athleticism and stuff with top tier guards but I do think Baylor's guards are different
01:01:00 so they're gonna give you. They're gonna give you buckets like, yeah, no matter how good your defend against them.
01:01:20 Yeah, I mean it's an easy prediction here is a win at Oklahoma State, and you lose a Baylor but yeah, I'm excited because the thing that's exciting about TCU is that you don't know what it's going to bring like they yeah exactly you don't know if they're going to win to drop to, you know, lose that Oklahoma State be Baylor like it is team is so unpredictable which makes it dangerous in March.
01:01:46 Yeah, predictions with TCU is like the toughest team in the nation to predict because you don't know so I'm super excited to watch these games and get into it.
01:02:00 Yeah, a couple notes on Baylor. They're the best team in the country when it comes to three point percentage they shoot 42% from three which is pretty crazy crazy yeah like unfathomable crazy 42% of the team is insane.
01:02:17 Yeah, like the second best team in that category is Indiana State and they're 41 so they're a full point ahead of the second best team which doesn't sound like a lot but that's a lot.
01:02:28 And against the best defense in the world to in the big 12 like it's, it's unreal like they're gonna give you buckets Jacoby, Walter we talked about.
01:02:36 None. I mean, every single one of them can give you buckets. Yeah. So, the other thing about Baylor is that they don't play until that TCU game next Saturday so they played.
01:02:49 They played Texas yesterday which was Saturday. They lose. They have a full week to get ready for TCU to come to to what is that place called now like Foster, Foster.
01:03:01 Yeah, Foster. The new one Foster Pavilion. Okay. So they're getting ready for TCU to come to their house for a whole week. And that can be good, because you don't have to go like TCU has got to go on the road and probably, you know, play a really physical
01:03:16 game against Oklahoma State. And then they got, you know, a couple days later they're back in action. Do you like having like the full week off, or do you like in TCU's case getting to play, stay kind of, I don't know.
01:03:33 Both these teams have lost two in a row. So, do you like having a game in between this or would you rather have the week off like Baylor does. Yeah, I genuinely kind of like having that week to as kind of a get right game I think it's the whole rest
01:03:51 rest debate which is never going to be answered because there's mixed results either way and it probably really doesn't matter as much as we think, or at least in my opinion.
01:04:14 Yeah. All right, before we bring Torian official predictions from you. Go for it.
01:04:41 I'll take chalk, to be honest, I think it's going to be when Oklahoma State high loss of Baylor, but I do think both are winnable and both are losable.
01:04:53 Yeah, I, my gut tells me to go there but I think just for the hell of it. I'm going to know I think they get the big win at Baylor.
01:05:05 I think for some reason I just like the way that I don't know it's it's fun because like you said we could be there are two different TCU teams there's like really good one and a not so good one so yeah, and a lot of the times they show themselves in the same game, which is even more fun so it's hard to predict these games but for whatever reason I, I think it's going to be so tough to go to an O with two road games in the big 12 but I like it, I'm going to go.
01:05:32 I think it's going to be a win at Oklahoma State and a win at Baylor. I'm like, yeah, I was at that game in Waco last year that check in winner and that was such an awesome game so hopefully we'll run it back.
01:05:41 Yeah.
01:05:42 All right, let's take a quick break, and let's bring Torian.
01:05:46 Yeah, this should, this should be interesting. Yeah.
01:05:53 Okay, joining us now is Tori couch our killer frogs.com colleague.
01:05:59 We had her on earlier in the year just talk about the TC women's basketball team and the hot start that they got off to now. There's some, there's some news with this team, and if for the people who haven't heard of what's going on with TCU women's basketball.
01:06:15 Can you give us kind of a rundown of what's happened over the last kind of week or so of of that program. Yeah.
01:06:24 There's been a lot that's going on so I'll try and kind of hit on it as all this best I can feel free to kind of fill in any gaps but essentially, the team canceled or forfeit their last two conference games, Kansas State and Iowa State those games will not be made up.
01:06:42 And they'll carry us the conference record, but not the team's overall record. And the reason the women's basketball team did not participate in those games was because they did not have enough players.
01:06:53 So what had happened in the Houston game, that would have been the Saturday before the Kansas State game was supposed to be played.
01:07:00 The team was already down Sedona Prince, she injured her finger against Baylor early in January. And then, Jane Owens went down with what turned out to be an ACL injury is going to be season ending undergoing surgery all that against Houston.
01:07:15 And it was a non contact injury and those are kind of the worst ones to watch. I was watching that game and just saw her go down it's like, she's out for at least the rest of the game you really hope maybe she's out for a week or two it's not really that serious but ended up being season ending.
01:07:30 You know, which you could tell during that game they were having a hard time adjusting to losing their point guard and all these things but you thought okay they're, they've still got enough pieces they're going to be okay.
01:07:42 And then the, the Kansas State game got canceled along with Iowa State, because as it as things have kind of come to light, a couple other players have been injured.
01:07:54 Another one with a season ending ankle injury ankle surgery is Daisha Turner, and she's kind of become a big piece of the frogs with all these different injuries that have come up.
01:08:04 And I don't know, they haven't publicized any other injuries or anything else of that nature.
01:08:10 But there's a lot of rumors and things floating around I don't really want to speculate on that, but it just sounds like this team has gotten the injury bug kind of to an extreme.
01:08:21 So now they're, they're trying to regroup and are supposed to play UCF on Tuesday.
01:08:28 So with the open tryouts, how many extra players did they get and do they expect them to actually have roles because if you go from just non basketball player student at TCU to just jumping into the best basketball conference in the nation, you know, it's, it's a big job so how, what is their expectations for these tryouts and how many players that they get.
01:08:52 I don't know how many players they ended up getting out of that process, but you're 100% right going from, even if you have really good high school basketball experience you were in all everything but you're not conditioned to be a division one athlete that is a huge jump.
01:09:08 My guess is this was kind of to fill out their roster so they could have 10 girls that can play and then enough to practice with and things like that so I think there's more move just to fill out the roster.
01:09:23 You know, and I'm sure some of them will probably see minutes here and there, but you're still going to have Madison Connor, and some of these other players that you know who have been a huge piece of this team.
01:09:37 I just don't think they've had enough bodies to be able to practice and do what they need to do.
01:09:43 So you talked about Deja Turner and Jaden Owens injuries or season ending right.
01:09:49 Sedona Prince broke her finger. Is that a, what is the expectation there? Do we know the timetable for her return? Because that would be a big addition for them.
01:10:00 Yeah, it would. So, when she underwent surgery and all that the initial expectation is coming back, hopefully end of February, early March, somewhere along those lines.
01:10:11 I haven't heard any change to that given everything that's happened. I would imagine they'd want her to come back. I know she, part of why she came back to college was to improve her stock for the WNBA and keep getting better and all these things.
01:10:24 So, from just that competitor standpoint, I would imagine she would return, but again it's going to be another five to six weeks before she returns.
01:10:33 With her back, she was the focal point of the offense in some ways. So you could tell even before all these other injuries that they just struggled to adjust not having her there.
01:10:44 They were starting to figure it out, but now you've lost all these other important pieces as well.
01:10:51 Yeah, and talking about the speculation a little bit because it was such a big thing that was in the TCU sports world, I think. Going on Twitter, there were different people saying there was a brawl that caused this and all these outlandish accusations, I would say.
01:11:11 What was your reaction to that covering the team? I think Sedona Prince went on TikTok and gave a whole rundown of what happened, which was basically, as you said, just a crazy, unlucky run of injuries.
01:11:25 Which is almost like a movie type script where you're having these random tryouts now. But what was your reaction to all the speculation? Was there any truth behind any of them?
01:11:39 I mean, yeah. When I got the information that the two games were canceled, I was heartbroken for this team. With the start that they've had, and yes, they lost at Baylor even fully healthy, but they had a chance against Baylor for most of that game.
01:11:55 So I was just heartbroken for this team because it has been such a good start. And then for things to just essentially do a complete 180, I mean, and it's all out of your control. You almost expect an injury or two throughout the season. That's just the way things go.
01:12:10 But from my understanding, it's just injuries. And that's part of basketball. Unfortunately, it's been to the extreme for this team. And also things like speculation trying to kind of, and I get it. We all want to know what's going on.
01:12:26 We all want to be able to kind of figure out, well, why would they do these unprecedented things or whatnot? I don't know. I feel really bad for this team because they had such good trajectory. The more they were playing together and the more you watched them, you just thought they have a chance to finish in the top half of the Big 12, challenge some of those better teams.
01:12:47 And now, I mean, it's going to be a really, really tough season. I think there's no way around it. Yes, you still have these girls who are divisional and athletes, but you're not going to have a lot of depth. And that's just going to make it really, really hard.
01:13:04 Okay. So yeah, on Nick's point, Kansas State fans on Twitter were so mad for whatever reason. I don't really understand that. But moving on to the season moving forward, there's still pieces there, like you mentioned.
01:13:19 We talked a lot about Madison Connor last time you were on, this really prolific score. What is she averaging? I believe like 21 a game still. Is there enough here in your eyes that they can still be scrappy and be competitive? Or is this like a, I don't know, like what is the mood for this around this team going forward?
01:13:42 That's a really good question. And I think we're going to learn a lot on Tuesday. I think there's still a lot of good pieces. Aliyah Roberson has been in since Sedona went out, and she has definitely had some really good moments.
01:13:57 You can tell she's not Sedona, and that's okay. In the Oklahoma State game, the home game after the Baylor game, Coach Gamble even said, "I'm not expecting her to be Sedona. That's not who she is. I just want her to be the best version of herself."
01:14:13 And I think you were starting to see that in the games that they did play. So I think Aliyah Roberson does give them some good talent. You still have Una Javanovic, who has a lot of experience. She can score if she needs to. She can break out. Agnes is still going to be just an absolute beast on the board, get you some points.
01:14:39 I think there's pieces there that I don't see this team just holding back and down and not trying. But I think some of the scores are not going to look as great as they could just because the team back in June that was together going on the summer international trip and all these things, that's not this team anymore. It's a completely different team.
01:15:05 With that being said, obviously you go from 14-0 to this with a snap of a finger. What does success look like now for the rest of the season? Does it just finish it, to be honest? How does this affect the program going forward, or does it at all?
01:15:25 Yeah, that's a really good question. When I had the opportunity to write a story about the team's hot start, one of the questions I asked Coach Campbell was, "How do you define success?" And to him, and this was before non-conference finish, so they're on this run, they're playing as well as they possibly could play. He said, "It's not about wins. It's not about losses. I don't have those kind of arbitrary goals. It's are we maximizing this team's talent?"
01:15:51 So I think from that standpoint, the level, the standard of success isn't going to change. It's still for this coaching staff going to be, "How do we maximize this group's talent?"
01:16:03 Now, that's not going to look the same as it did four weeks ago as far as number of wins and what they do in the tournament and all these kinds of things. But I still think for the coaching staff, the expectation remains, "We're going to push these girls as hard as we possibly can, no matter whether they were on the team from the jump or they just joined the last day or two."
01:16:27 So I don't think that perspective is going to change. But as far as the future of this program, that's where I think you're going to see where we're really going to learn a lot about Coach Campbell and his staff.
01:16:41 Because this is where you go to recruits and say, "Man, we just had this kind of unprecedented rash, injuries, and just an unprecedented time. But we still have faith in you and your abilities and where this program can go.
01:16:57 And we still have these girls who are committed to the program who came in and things like that." That's where those relationships and things like that start to become really, really important.
01:17:08 So I think it's fair to worry a little bit about the future of the program just because this just changes things so much. But I think also that this is a chance for the coaching staff to kind of show we're committed to TCU, we're committed to what we're building, and our recruits are committed to us as well.
01:17:29 Tuesday, TCU plays, as far as I know, the game is still on. They play UCF. UCF is a team that has also not won a game in conference play yet. And I know it's hard to know what TCU has and what it's going to look like with the pieces they have left.
01:17:48 I don't know what you know about this UCF team, but is this a game they can win? And how big would it be if they were able to get a win after the week they've had?
01:17:58 I mean, it would be huge if they could get a win. I know it's a newcomer to the conference, not an old Big 12 school, all that. I get that. But just to get a conference win after everything that's gone on, it would just be such a huge morale boost.
01:18:12 I think anybody would admit this is going to be a really tough Big 12 season. It's just going to be tough. And so any good things that you can have along the way, I think that's really important.
01:18:27 I haven't had a chance yet to sit down and dive into UCF, but like you said, they've struggled. The transition for them has been tough as one of those new teams to the conference.
01:18:37 So I think this is an opportunity to get a win. But again, you've got girls that are trying to learn how to play together and relearn an offense that was designed a certain way and has been redesigned I don't know how many times over the last two weeks.
01:18:55 I mean, that's really, really hard to do all that on the fly when everybody else is doing what they've been doing since June.
01:19:03 Yeah, I mean, it's just unfathomable what had happened. And I don't know if you have any more questions, but I mean that clarification, like I didn't really know what happened.
01:19:18 And just seeing all the speculation was crazy because it seemed just like, I mean, it was insane how fast all these random injuries happened. And just to see how many different news things were going on and all this different random speculation that was very uncalled for, I would say.
01:19:39 I appreciate you giving us some clarification.
01:19:50 I'm personally curious myself to see what that post-game press conference is like, win or lose. Just because I think, again, that's going to show us a little bit more about who Coach Campbell is and just the way he approaches that.
01:20:04 Even after Oklahoma State lost, he still was positive because he knew the team had room to grow and all these things that they can do. So I'm very curious to see what that post-game press conference is going to be like, given that there's just another layer of adversity to this season.
01:20:26 Yeah, really just overall very unfortunate. This was such a fun team and it felt like TCU women's basketball had as much momentum as just as a program had as much momentum as it's had maybe ever. I don't know. I'm not, you know, I don't want to say that definitely.
01:20:43 But I definitely feel for that team and for this also to happen with a first year coach and Mark Campbell, I'm sure that's just really, really difficult. But I think we're all interested to see how he handles it.
01:20:57 And once again, we really appreciate you coming on and talking, explaining a bit of what's going on and maybe what to expect going forward. We appreciate you coming back on.
01:21:07 Yeah, thanks for having me.
01:21:09 Yeah, of course.
01:21:10 Awesome.
01:21:11 Yeah, we'll have you on again later in the season maybe to do one more check in, but it's always fun to talk TCU hoops. So thank you so much.
01:21:22 Thank you for listening to this week's episode of the Frog Fever, Killer Frogs basketball podcast. That was a pretty good one. Thanks again to Tori for coming on talking women's basketball.
01:21:37 And then yeah, a lot of other another fun week of big 12 basketball ahead. So come back next week and we'll talk more about it.
01:21:48 But for now, you can find us anywhere. Any of your preferred podcast listening platforms. We're on all of them are on killer frogs calm if you want to watch us talk.
01:21:59 But I am Davis Wilson. That's Nick Germany, and we'll see you next week.
01:22:04 Thank you guys. Bye.
01:22:07 Bye.
01:22:11 Bye.
01:22:14 (upbeat music)