Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 25th Januray 2024 - video Dailymotion

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Transcript

00:00 Assalamu Alaikum, you are watching the program with Kashif Abbasi.

00:03 The election fair is about to begin.

00:06 A campaign is going on.

00:08 All political parties are a part of this campaign.

00:11 PTI is a part of this campaign with great difficulty.

00:15 They are being allowed to campaign in some places and not in others.

00:20 Now we will see how much improvement will come in this by February 8 for the justice system.

00:25 Whether they will be allowed to campaign or not.

00:27 But one debate that has started again and again is the debate on free candidates.

00:32 Where will the free candidates go and who will be the trump card?

00:36 I also talked a lot about the column of Suhail Baraij in yesterday's program.

00:40 The free candidates fair.

00:42 He thinks that the majority will vote for free candidates.

00:45 If the majority of free candidates are there,

00:48 according to him, the estimate is that 70-80 seats will be taken by the Noon League.

00:53 And 50-60 seats will be taken by the People's Party.

00:58 And now it is being said that the balance of power is coming in favor of free candidates.

01:03 If this sentence is seen, it means that the free candidates are from which party?

01:08 They are from the justice system.

01:10 Because they are not the symbol of the ballot, they are fighting the election in the free status.

01:13 This means that the justice system in this election, in the upcoming election,

01:19 will be at least ahead of Suhail Baraij's party.

01:23 Or they will take more seats.

01:25 What will happen to those candidates?

01:28 It should be that they are only free because they do not have a ballot.

01:33 On one of the technicalities of the intra-party elections,

01:35 a ballot was taken from Tariq Khan,

01:37 which was decided in detail by the Supreme Court.

01:40 But because of that technicality, they are free.

01:42 They are not free because they do not want to be associated with any party.

01:46 They are associated with the party.

01:48 They are putting the flag of justice on their banner posters.

01:52 Because of this, they should not be considered free in the classical sense,

01:58 like you consider the rest of the people free.

02:00 People who make a choice that they do not want to fight the election on the ticket of any political party.

02:07 And after that, they have the freedom that they can join any political party in three days.

02:12 What does Faisal Wada say about these freedoms?

02:15 Please listen.

02:17 Freedom will be valued.

02:19 The player's value will be valued.

02:20 The value of the big player will be valued.

02:21 The one who will put a good value will come to the field and will get the money.

02:25 The value will be valued means that there will be a large-scale horse trading.

02:30 Khadija Asif sir also asked a question to Shahzaib Khanzada sir in his program.

02:36 He said that the free candidates will definitely decide in terms of their political future.

02:39 That is, they will see where the next seat is, what will be given to me, etc. etc.

02:44 What did he say? Please listen.

02:46 The free candidates will definitely decide in terms of their political future.

02:53 They will see the political future there and then they will decide their future with the party with which they can fight the election by taking the ticket of that party.

03:02 The thing is that the ticket has come.

03:05 You must remember the market of the Sindh House.

03:08 In this, there is a deal.

03:10 When you make a deal, what is called horse trading?

03:13 You make a deal on the basis of some people and some two.

03:17 You are giving your vote in that deal, but in return you are taking tickets, money, some other ministries.

03:25 Whatever it is called, it is business and a deal.

03:30 Irfan Siddiqui's view is a little different.

03:34 What does he say? Please listen to him.

03:36 Why are we saying that the market will be set?

03:38 These are not free people in the well-known terms.

03:42 These are PTI people.

03:44 These are Imran Khan's loyalists.

03:46 Their targets are different, but they are in a moral discipline in which they are tied.

03:50 They are an army of justice and they will remain stubborn and they will play a role in this.

03:57 Why don't we expect this?

03:59 So this is his opinion.

04:02 Let's talk about this too.

04:03 On the other hand, People's Party and Muslim League Noon.

04:05 Today, Noon League answered Bilawal.

04:08 Please listen.

04:09 He says that his bill is working.

04:14 He can't tell you what he will do.

04:18 Those who have ruled in a province for 15 years, ask today that if you count 15 plans in 15 years, there is nothing to tell.

04:27 I can count 1,500 plans of Nawaz Sharif.

04:30 It will be forbidden for me to arrest the political workers of my opponent in my government.

04:37 He announced that if he gets a chance, he will arrest the political prisoners and the prisoners of personal jail.

04:47 The Prime Minister has not been able to build a hospital in his city that can treat him.

04:55 We will build such a hospital for him in Raiwind.

04:59 You have been ruling for 15 years.

05:02 Karachi has been made a city of ruins.

05:05 Today, no Lahori wants Lahore to become Karachi.

05:10 Both are running an interesting campaign.

05:13 Is this a friendly fire?

05:15 At the end, we will sit in PDM 2.

05:17 Athar Kazmi is present with us. Thank you very much.

05:19 Muneeb Farooq is present with us.

05:21 Muneeb, thank you.

05:22 Maseem Badami is with us from Karachi.

05:24 Badami, thank you.

05:25 So, I will start with you.

05:27 Free people.

05:29 I am sure we all have respected and blessed Suhail Baradar.

05:35 Because of his experience, when he looks at things, it is taken seriously.

05:41 Do you see free hopefuls leading or is it the co-political party, Badami, who is leading?

05:48 In the end.

05:50 Bismillahir Rahmanir Rahim.

05:52 It is a coincidence that I had a long conversation with Suhail Baradar a few days ago.

05:58 I got a chance to hear more about him from him.

06:05 Fyadur Hasan Chauhan is the translator of IPP.

06:09 He came in the program last week and said that he is giving you breaking news.

06:12 Write it down.

06:13 Only those people from PTI will win who will commit to joining IPP after we win.

06:19 I got a chance to interview Aleem Khan after 4 days.

06:22 Aleem Khan, the president of IPP, said that he is confirming that he is in contact with PTI people.

06:28 And he has also taken a commitment that some of them will join our party after winning.

06:35 Of course, many questions will arise from the moral point of view.

06:37 The moral point of view is the same as Irfan Siddiqui.

06:40 But I understand the game plan that later IPP, these people will not become a part of any party.

06:47 A special number of PTI winners will join IPP.

06:51 IPP is a party.

06:53 You can't say that it is not a party.

06:55 You can't say that it is not a party.

06:57 You are interviewing the chairman of IPP.

07:02 You are interviewing the president or chairman of IPP.

07:04 But you are not ready to accept that it is a party.

07:07 I mean, they will not become a part of a big party.

07:13 They will join IPP.

07:15 IPP will remain as a party.

07:17 And IPP will be a party that if it leaves a government, it will be a party that will fight for the government.

07:22 And everyone will know how IPP is going on.

07:25 So I understand the game plan that PTI and PTI.

07:28 One more thing, it is also possible that if some of the PTI leaders win,

07:35 who cannot even join IPP, then they will be out of the election game as a result of some legal proceedings.

07:45 So PTI will become smaller and many of the PTI leaders will join IPP.

07:50 But if they come after making deals, then it is a different matter.

07:54 But if they all disappear and are not seen for 3-4 days, then maybe they will leave.

08:00 And Kashi sir, a small thing, not to forget that this has happened.

08:06 In Karachi, the election of the mayor, Hafiz Naeem Rehman,

08:08 against Murtaza Wahab,

08:10 there was an alliance of PTI and Jamat-e-Islami and People's Party, Noon etc.

08:14 According to the number of seats won by everyone,

08:16 People's Party and Jamat-e-Islami was more than People's Party vs. Ijtihadis.

08:21 You mean to say that PTI + Jamat-e-Islami was more.

08:25 You are wrong.

08:26 Sorry.

08:27 Jamat-e-Islami and Tariq-e-Islami were more in number.

08:31 PTI + Jamat-e-Islami combined was more than People's Party + Ijtihadis.

08:36 But when the day of the election came, 31 people from PTI did not come to Rehman that day.

08:41 When they did not come, the number game was different.

08:44 When the number game was different, Murtaza Wahab became the mayor.

08:47 People will be divided.

08:49 Look, the first thing is that,

08:51 as Mr. Badami said about IPP that he is not participating in the party,

08:55 look, his ideological workers,

08:57 if they have been hurt, I apologize to them on behalf of Mr. Badami.

09:02 This Jamat was formed on the opinion of Mr. Aun Chaudhary and they took it so lightly.

09:07 The second thing is that, look, why will people be divided?

09:11 Now, the people who are standing, who are still standing,

09:14 why is this impression being formed?

09:16 Basically, to confuse the voters.

09:18 Firstly, you took the sign of violence,

09:20 because the members of PTI and the 14 people who went to the Supreme Court,

09:25 their rights had to be protected and what happened to millions of people is in front of us.

09:29 Now again, to confuse that voter, different kinds of statements are being given that this vote will not count.

09:35 Mr. Wada also said that the vote that will be cast for any candidate of Tariq-e-Insaf will be wasted.

09:40 Some time ago, the statements were that,

09:42 these people who are taking the ticket must be looking for it,

09:45 they must be taking the ticket and going, no one will take the ticket.

09:48 Then you saw that in each and every circle, how many tickets were taken,

09:51 and then many friends who said that no one will take the ticket,

09:54 they said that these tickets are being sold, there is injustice in the ticket.

09:58 The problem is that we need to understand the mood of the people.

10:01 You have stopped a political action.

10:03 You have stopped the right of the people to vote for almost a year.

10:08 So people will come out and cast their votes,

10:10 and the majority of those who will cast their votes, I don't think they will go anywhere.

10:16 If everything was so easy, then you wouldn't have to make such a fuss

10:20 that you are not letting them run the campaign today, you are removing their posters today.

10:24 Yasmeen Rashid who took 80,000 votes in 2013,

10:28 you don't see a single poster of her in Mr. Mian's circle.

10:31 She is Mian's circle.

10:33 Yes, if there is any involvement, then it should be removed.

10:37 Yes, it should be removed.

10:39 Mian and Maniab are together.

10:41 No, not that much.

10:42 It is fair to treat them like that.

10:44 They have come from so far, they have brought so many flights,

10:46 they were sick too, they should be careful.

10:48 I take back my words if anyone is offended.

10:51 Now this is the issue that if you have to do it this way,

10:54 and break people this way,

10:56 countries run under the constitution, under the constitution, under the system.

11:00 You said that if Azad comes, then half will go there, half will go there.

11:04 The vote that will be taken on Imran Khan's view is acceptable to you,

11:08 but his party is not acceptable.

11:10 So there are many questions that we have to ask ourselves.

11:13 Time gives the answer to many things.

11:15 I agree that there will be a lot of pressure on them.

11:19 Yes, of course.

11:20 But now we have to see what strategy they make to get out of this.

11:24 You have seen that when the pressure was increasing, people were being picked up and underground.

11:28 It is possible that they will also go underground.

11:30 Muneeb sir, I have been observing your signal for a long time, it was bad,

11:34 so I will try to talk to you here,

11:36 until the signal is good on the phone.

11:38 Where do you see?

11:40 First tell me, if you want to see the breakdown of the seats,

11:44 what will you see? What is the breakdown of the seats?

11:47 Thank you very much, Kajsaab.

11:52 In today's situation, anyone's signal can be down,

11:54 but let me still add.

11:56 You should not be down, you are from Chakwal.

11:58 You are from Chakwal, you should not be down.

12:01 Let poor people like us stay.

12:03 Sir, Chakwal is down, what can we do?

12:08 Yes, that's fine.

12:10 Okay, let's go.

12:12 I am saying that the situation is present.

12:15 Sir, keep an eye on the situation.

12:17 I am sorry, it is my fault.

12:19 It is his fault or my fault?

12:21 Yes.

12:22 And this mistake was also made by Mr. Madhami.

12:24 It was a serious mistake.

12:26 Today, it seems like a collective apology program.

12:28 Mr. Madhami,

12:30 Mr. Madhami was not coming later anyway.

12:32 If you see it as a story,

12:34 then he will have a problem.

12:36 Okay, I am just adding to this.

12:38 Thank you, I am listening to this.

12:40 This happened in the last discussion.

12:42 Okay, is the sound coming now?

12:48 It is coming, it is coming.

12:50 Now it is coming.

12:52 I am saying that

12:54 our argument is

12:56 that it is a fact and it is also true

12:58 that the number of people who are independent

13:00 is a good number.

13:02 And most of the people who do not have

13:04 a sign of fighting,

13:06 they will fight for it.

13:08 But you see,

13:10 you are more close to me.

13:12 Where do the people who are independent go?

13:14 At the end of the day.

13:16 They go where they are called 'sajan' to go.

13:18 They go to their own interest.

13:20 Okay, the meaning of that

13:22 is also given by someone else.

13:24 But Mr. Muneem,

13:26 you will agree with this

13:28 that the nature of independent candidates

13:30 is not the same as that of this group.

13:32 They are not independent

13:34 because they have decided that they want to be independent.

13:36 They are independent because

13:38 by compulsion and the Supreme Court's decision

13:40 a sign of a fight was taken

13:42 and that is why they are going independent.

13:44 And they are people of justice.

13:46 They are people of a party.

13:48 Absolutely right.

13:50 If we look at it in principle,

13:52 your argument is 100% correct

13:54 and morally it is bound

13:56 with the Constitution

13:58 and with the law.

14:00 And it should be.

14:02 But the issue is that

14:04 here, the things that are...

14:06 I may be wrong, but from the point of view

14:08 I am able to see,

14:10 at this time, the people of justice

14:12 will fight for elections.

14:14 If by the time of the elections,

14:16 the broken ones

14:18 or the independents

14:20 are able to do it, then they will be the same people

14:22 who have already given an undertaking

14:24 that we will save ourselves.

14:26 Frankly, if I put it that way.

14:28 And you will not have any complaints from us.

14:30 We are completely independent.

14:32 Who is the independent one?

14:34 It will be the establishment.

14:36 You have to do this, you have to do that.

14:38 Because that is the way it has panned out.

14:40 And secondly, I will tell you that so much has happened.

14:42 So much has happened.

14:44 But it has come this far.

14:46 The column that you mentioned,

14:48 this is also a part of it.

14:50 Maybe in the end,

14:52 everyone will get a free hand.

14:54 Everyone will get a free hand,

14:56 but the people who depend on it

14:58 will not get it.

15:00 At this time, it is a simple thing

15:02 that no Jamaat will be so powerful.

15:04 A controlled government will come

15:06 whose door will be somewhere else.

15:08 When someone will do something here and there,

15:10 or move from the line,

15:12 then it will start pulling it.

15:14 But unfortunately,

15:16 as we speak,

15:18 there is no silver lining anywhere.

15:20 And the independent narrative that we are making,

15:22 these are the same people.

15:24 And if we can prove these same people,

15:26 then we know that we have to stay here later.

15:28 And we cannot take the responsibility

15:30 of the establishment.

15:32 We do not want to be the mercy of the establishment.

15:34 Rest assured,

15:36 this is clear as dross.

15:38 I think the decision will be made on time.

15:40 I agree with you that there will be a lot of pressure.

15:42 Many people cannot stand.

15:44 There will be a lot of pressure,

15:46 but I am sure that

15:48 just like there was a plan A, plan B, plan C for elections,

15:50 I think there should be a plan A, plan B, plan C for this too.

15:52 I am sure they will come up with something.

15:54 Like I said,

15:56 the first thing in my mind is to disappear.

15:58 When the time comes,

16:00 come back.

16:02 After that time,

16:04 you will not have any pressure.

16:06 But unless,

16:08 I do not know if they have made any commitments,

16:10 but I think they have given tickets.

16:12 I have seen the people who are fighting for elections,

16:14 I have seen the people who have problems,

16:16 I have seen that they have not given tickets.

16:18 But let's come to this,

16:20 this PMLN versus People's Party,

16:22 is this PDM2 fighting among themselves?

16:24 Is this a friendly fire?

16:26 Or are their paths separate?

16:28 Okay, a quick comment on this.

16:34 If some people disappear,

16:36 even that would serve the purpose

16:38 of the people who want

16:40 the game to be anti-PTI.

16:42 Because if a specific person,

16:44 20, 25, 28, 30,

16:46 is missing from the parliament,

16:48 then they are not contributing to the vote,

16:50 they are not contributing in any other way,

16:52 so again the number game will be imbalanced.

16:54 But I will tell you why I am saying that they will disappear.

16:56 PTI, see, all the pressures,

16:58 like Muneeb said,

17:00 there is no silver lining in the way of justice.

17:02 No, the campaign will be allowed.

17:04 Suppose if these decisions are being made,

17:06 then there should be free and fair elections.

17:08 But if that is the case,

17:10 then the number is not so big that

17:12 they are in a position to form a government.

17:14 This is not the situation in Karachi.

17:16 Keeping a sizable opposition intact here,

17:18 which can give the government a tough time tomorrow,

17:20 I think that will be the bigger motive

17:22 of Tariq-e-Insaf,

17:24 that they should be kept intact,

17:26 so that a big opposition,

17:28 60, 70, 80, 100, whatever comes,

17:30 their opposition can give a difficult time

17:32 when the time comes for the government.

17:34 There is a certain time when they have joined a party.

17:36 If they don't go, then they will be free.

17:38 So they can sit on the opposition benches.

17:40 Wasim,

17:42 so this could be the main source.

17:44 And I think that if that is empty,

17:46 and I think that the plan at this time

17:48 is not even that much ahead of

17:50 the plan of 6, 8, 10, 12, 16 months.

17:52 So how can the game of power be transferred

17:54 after the elections?

17:56 So for now, if PTI,

17:58 even after thinking about this wisdom,

18:00 the MNAs of PTI have disappeared,

18:02 then also I think the other side will say

18:04 that okay, for now the number game is out,

18:06 so the government will come.

18:08 Prime Minister, make it later, we will see.

18:10 We will see later.

18:12 Then who knows, this group will also come,

18:14 whoever the minister is,

18:16 to show him the stars in the day.

18:18 So I think that will be later.

18:20 Now the PDA thing,

18:22 one thing is that I am not surprised,

18:24 because when we sat together,

18:26 we found out that the elections were to be held,

18:28 so it was certain that when the elections

18:30 were to be held, we were obviously

18:32 against each other.

18:34 Khurshid Shah sir ended the conversation

18:36 in our program by saying that

18:38 he said that he will say something against

18:40 the elections, we will fight against them,

18:42 we need some spice,

18:44 so what will we sell?

18:46 However, especially from the side of the PPP,

18:48 I think that at times when you

18:50 talk like this,

18:52 it seems that you should also see

18:54 that you are not insulting the intelligence

18:56 of an ordinary man, that it is okay

18:58 that there are different parties and you have different views,

19:00 but when you say that this is the

19:02 inflation league, they have made a big mistake by

19:04 making inflation, then brother you are not

19:06 talking about the ten years old thing,

19:08 you are not talking about their views,

19:10 brother, we were sitting together till yesterday,

19:12 and were taking all the ministries,

19:14 so now you suddenly found out that the inflation league

19:16 is a fascist, especially when the PPP

19:18 gives this impression from its stage,

19:20 that as if it is complaining to someone or

19:22 warning someone that see, do not let him come,

19:24 he will not leave you, when the PPP

19:26 comes, he will take revenge, you do not know,

19:28 so it does not seem like a fun thing that you are

19:30 complaining to someone that brother, bring me,

19:32 see my history is not even, I do not take revenge,

19:34 he will take, he will fight with you, do not bring him,

19:36 so it does not seem like a fun thing,

19:38 but anyway, whatever is happening, nothing is

19:40 unexpected in it, the PPP and the NUN had to do

19:42 this, especially when their voters,

19:44 even when Balla got out, and these two parties

19:46 were left, Teer and Sher, then they had to do

19:48 what they were doing. Let me take a break,

19:50 after the break, the friendly fire

19:52 from the other two brothers,

19:54 and then the question, do you think that

19:56 the PDM2 government will be formed?

19:58 And the credibility of our system

20:00 gets over, many times people

20:02 look for opportunities that democracy

20:04 cannot run in this country,

20:06 the big reason for that is the politics of our country,

20:08 and like you said,

20:10 questioning the intelligence of a common man,

20:12 when you say that

20:14 you fool me once, shame on me,

20:16 you and if you fool me twice, shame on me,

20:18 we will not sit with them again,

20:20 and then you go, and you say that

20:22 people will not remember after 5 years,

20:24 this politics has also ruined the democracy

20:26 and politics of this country,

20:28 people do not trust that politicians,

20:30 you remember, Zardari sir said that

20:32 if we meet Mian, then Allah will not forgive us,

20:34 and then we met, now Allah knows,

20:36 what do I know?

20:38 Let's take a break,

20:40 welcome back viewers,

20:42 Maseem gave many examples,

20:44 and he said, Zardari sir said

20:46 Allah will not forgive,

20:48 despite all the criticism,

20:50 people have come together,

20:52 now people are saying it themselves,

20:54 you can call people's party

20:56 and ask them on TV,

20:58 will we go back to PDM2,

21:00 or will we go back to government,

21:02 Zardari sir said it himself,

21:04 everyone will have to make a government,

21:06 no one has a solution,

21:08 so this is given,

21:10 that all this criticism,

21:12 is happening because of the election,

21:14 crowd pool is because of this,

21:16 if people's party goes to Lahore,

21:18 they can't do anything against PTI,

21:20 what will they do against the dead,

21:22 they can't campaign,

21:24 so what can they do against them,

21:26 so this is for the crowd,

21:28 but do you think that all will come together in PDM2,

21:30 yes, I think it will happen,

21:32 you can see that,

21:34 Bilawal sir went there and gave speeches,

21:36 he had to target,

21:38 and he had to make his voters happy,

21:40 then this impression was given,

21:42 that like Bilawal did a big event in Lahore,

21:44 and now he will take a seat from there,

21:46 so Bilawal sir is not in that circle,

21:48 not in third or 13th,

21:50 there is a competition between Fias Khokhar sir and Atta Tarar sir,

21:52 this is the ground reality,

21:54 now if he wins there,

21:56 I will be very surprised,

21:58 because people from Pats were there in that event,

22:00 and people from outside were there,

22:02 Pakistan Awami Tehreek,

22:04 and Gandapur sir gave a speech there,

22:06 so this is the reality,

22:08 second thing is,

22:10 should he not meet anyone in future,

22:12 yes, he should,

22:14 but you can see that both the big parties,

22:16 there are talks that,

22:18 the free people will go there,

22:20 Bilawal sir is saying that,

22:22 the free people will come with us and we will make a government,

22:24 you can guess from this,

22:26 how much politically irrelevant this is,

22:28 that the big political parties,

22:30 who claim that,

22:32 we are the most popular,

22:34 but we will make a government with the free people,

22:36 or we will make a government together,

22:38 you can guess from this,

22:40 who are they fighting against,

22:42 who are in the streets,

22:44 who are missing,

22:46 who are doing Jalsa on TikTok,

22:48 and they don't even believe,

22:50 that they will make a government,

22:52 not even one of them claims that they will make a government,

22:54 either they say that we will make it together,

22:56 or we will make it free,

22:58 so you can guess from this,

23:00 how popular these people are,

23:02 and how politically relevant or irrelevant they are,

23:04 but by that token,

23:06 IPP is very relevant,

23:08 see, PP is the view of Aum Chaudhary,

23:10 and Azaad is feeling that he will go to them,

23:12 because Azaad will feel that they are very relevant,

23:14 there are only two views,

23:16 one of Aum Chaudhary and one of Adayala Jailwala,

23:18 Muneeb, yesterday,

23:20 Mariam Nawaz Sharif Sahiba,

23:22 mentioned about getting rid of the Bisaakis,

23:24 so they should vote,

23:26 we should not use Bisaakis,

23:28 do they also feel that,

23:30 they are not getting a majority,

23:32 no,

23:38 they may have talked about Bisaakis,

23:40 and this is a fact,

23:42 that it is a very overwhelming majority,

23:44 that we are not getting a majority,

23:46 to be honest,

23:48 they claim that we will get a simple majority,

23:50 and we will become a single largest party,

23:52 their ambition is definitely there,

23:54 I don't know,

23:56 Punjab has been their battleground,

23:58 but they have also got a big hit in Punjab,

24:00 now they can reclaim it,

24:02 I think,

24:04 it is a very good thing,

24:06 I think,

24:08 for me,

24:10 it is a confidence,

24:12 Muneeb, your signal is down again,

24:14 we will try to connect you again,

24:16 you never know what a vote is,

24:18 and what is the independence,

24:20 but the rest,

24:22 Bisaakis are there,

24:24 till Mr. Badami,

24:26 connects his signal again,

24:28 we are coming closer to elections,

24:30 obviously, every week,

24:32 your evaluation will change,

24:34 you will say,

24:36 this is better, this is worse,

24:38 which party do you see leading at the moment?

24:40 In terms of popularity,

24:46 Pakistan's justice was better,

24:48 and it is better,

24:50 now, in terms of election politics,

24:52 in my opinion,

24:54 it is getting effected, eroded,

24:56 why?

24:58 I think,

25:00 there is a little analysis,

25:02 they say, elections are won by the government,

25:04 opposition loses,

25:06 Pakistan's justice voter,

25:08 looking at the present situation,

25:10 he has understood this,

25:12 mentally,

25:14 that this matter,

25:16 is not going in our favour,

25:18 it is not like,

25:20 on 8th February,

25:22 our party will go to the government,

25:24 and our Imran Khan will be released from jail,

25:26 and will take over the post of the minister,

25:28 I think,

25:30 this is important,

25:32 but this factor,

25:34 apart from confusion,

25:36 which candidate is the real one,

25:38 apart from this,

25:40 this factor will also contribute,

25:42 negatively,

25:44 that,

25:46 his voter has understood,

25:48 that even if we put this vote,

25:50 this vote will not work,

25:52 ultimately,

25:54 our party will not win,

25:56 in this sense,

25:58 I think,

26:00 there will be a dent,

26:02 and it is still there.

26:04 It is possible,

26:06 I will give an example of 2018,

26:08 the weather of 2018,

26:10 the situation of 2018,

26:12 the management of 2018,

26:14 everyone knows,

26:16 Tariq-e-Ansar is coming,

26:18 but Central Punjab,

26:20 put a vote for Mian Nawaz Sharif,

26:22 which was said,

26:24 that Central Punjab,

26:26 Mian Nawaz Sharif,

26:28 broke this myth,

26:30 in a big chunk,

26:32 they became the second largest party,

26:34 the party,

26:36 which was put in jail,

26:38 after punishing the leaders,

26:40 people used to think,

26:42 that if they put a vote,

26:44 Tariq-e-Ansar will make the government,

26:46 I don't know which way it is going to go,

26:48 obviously, every voter has his own,

26:50 but I am saying,

26:52 this myth,

26:54 whether he will break it or not,

26:56 but Mian Nawaz Sharif,

26:58 Muneeb Baba,

27:00 I want to tell you,

27:02 the people's party,

27:04 has forced Mian Nawaz Sharif,

27:06 to join hands,

27:08 but who is his address,

27:10 listen to this,

27:12 I am saying this for the sake of Pakistan,

27:14 for the sake of Allah,

27:16 for the sake of Allah,

27:18 vote wisely,

27:20 we will not leave this country,

27:22 Mian Nawaz Sharif's children,

27:24 Junaid, Sabdar,

27:26 all the children will stay here,

27:28 Inshallah.

27:30 Muneeb,

27:32 which voter,

27:34 this is the voter,

27:36 who,

27:38 who has been,

27:40 with the government,

27:42 always,

27:44 and who,

27:46 who got the government,

27:48 to do justice,

27:50 even the second time,

27:52 now if you are saying,

27:54 fine, you said that,

27:56 but I don't think,

27:58 if that voter has been,

28:00 with justice,

28:02 then maybe he is still,

28:04 with justice,

28:06 but it depends,

28:08 at the end of the day,

28:10 what the situation is,

28:12 I say this again and again,

28:14 that 10 days are left,

28:16 and a lot can happen in 10 days,

28:18 and in 10 days,

28:20 the situation can get worse,

28:22 if something is not happening,

28:24 then to make it happen,

28:26 some other work can be done,

28:28 and further matters can be taken,

28:30 so this,

28:32 he is starting to scare you,

28:34 I am saying this,

28:36 I am telling you a very clear thing,

28:38 and I am not trying to scare you,

28:40 I am just telling you,

28:42 just listen to this,

28:44 I am just saying,

28:46 the feeling is that,

28:48 what happened in 2018,

28:50 was wrong,

28:52 not only was it wrong,

28:54 it was criminal,

28:56 and now, it is reverse engineering,

28:58 at every cost, in every which way,

29:00 and if this is what is going to happen,

29:02 then,

29:04 if the reverse engineering process is not complete,

29:06 then anything is possible,

29:08 and anything is permissible,

29:10 it can be wrong in my or your book of laws,

29:12 we can say that this is wrong,

29:14 this is very wrong,

29:16 you can say something,

29:18 that this is the limit,

29:20 but if, in a broader perspective,

29:22 we see that whatever it takes,

29:24 we have to do it,

29:26 then there is no upper limit,

29:28 there is no upper ceiling,

29:30 then you can do whatever you want,

29:32 and in that, I will say that,

29:34 even if it is not 90%,

29:36 people get upset,

29:38 you have contributed 80%,

29:40 you have done the things that no one has done before,

29:42 but the fact of the matter is that,

29:44 the response that has come,

29:46 that too is so big,

29:48 that no one had ever thought of,

29:50 and even in today's history,

29:52 there is no reverse gear in that,

29:54 it is that, if it is not happening here,

29:56 then one step forward,

29:58 if it is not happening,

30:00 then there is no point in saying that,

30:02 and whatever I am telling you,

30:04 it is not a thought of mine,

30:06 whatever I have told you,

30:08 understand that I am telling you for a reason.

30:10 You should know a little more,

30:12 I understood what you are saying,

30:14 but,

30:16 see, in 2018,

30:18 you are reversing it and saying,

30:20 two wrongs will make one right,

30:22 I don't think that's how life works,

30:24 generally, that you make one mistake,

30:26 to correct another mistake,

30:28 this philosophy is wrong,

30:30 and the world believes that this philosophy is wrong.

30:32 It is wrong in my book and yours sir,

30:34 it is wrong in my book and yours,

30:36 but the problem is that,

30:38 there are two arguments in this,

30:40 one is the political argument,

30:42 that which happens to the PMLN people,

30:44 when you tell them,

30:46 you have done this yourself,

30:48 how can you do this with political workers,

30:50 how can you do this with political party people,

30:52 by force how can you take the party's signatures,

30:54 or justify the state's force,

30:56 this is the political argument,

30:58 in which they say,

31:00 if this happened to us, why shouldn't they die,

31:02 we also cried, why shouldn't they cry,

31:04 that is the political argument,

31:06 one argument is that,

31:08 political party vs state institution,

31:10 you did it with us,

31:12 we brought you from Monia,

31:14 I am putting it in a very crude way now,

31:16 we brought you,

31:18 while you were dancing,

31:20 just like you bring your own people,

31:22 you became straight with us,

31:24 we will show you how to become straight,

31:26 if you want me to put it this way,

31:28 then I will go ahead,

31:30 let's be honest,

31:32 Pakistan's history is full of such examples,

31:34 Zubair Ali Bhutto was told,

31:36 we brought him, I made him the minister,

31:38 he will fight against us,

31:40 you must remember,

31:42 the argument of the 90's with Mian Nawaz Sharif was the same,

31:44 that we are the ones who brought him,

31:46 he will show us his eyes,

31:48 you remember,

31:50 Mian used to shout slogans of democracy,

31:52 our history is full of such things,

31:54 so this isn't a first either,

31:56 but,

31:58 Mian Nawaz Sharif,

32:00 going back to the campaign again,

32:02 who are you addressing,

32:04 can a PTI voter

32:06 break down,

32:08 can he sit at home,

32:10 these are the arguments,

32:12 the market arguments,

32:14 he will say, why should I go,

32:16 it is a problem,

32:18 why should I go out,

32:20 so this argument,

32:22 I have no problem with anyone,

32:24 this will happen to them,

32:26 so it means,

32:28 your Supreme Court, your High Courts,

32:30 your law, your constitution,

32:32 all of them are irrelevant,

32:34 in my opinion,

32:36 this is not the case,

32:38 in my opinion,

32:40 the politics is happening,

32:42 and those who said we have no relation with politics,

32:44 they have no relation with politics,

32:46 they don't interfere,

32:48 so, Mariam Nawaz,

32:50 can she bring a PTI voter to her side,

32:52 see,

32:54 the political parties' voters break down,

32:56 we saw the People's Party,

32:58 there was a huge vote bank in Punjab,

33:00 which suddenly disappeared,

33:02 and went somewhere else over the years,

33:04 so they can break down,

33:06 but in the present situation,

33:08 those who feel that they have taken away our rights,

33:10 this is my poster,

33:12 and this is his poster,

33:14 his candidate is taking out a rally,

33:16 and he is taking out a rally,

33:18 and he is taking out a rally,

33:20 and he has no respect for anyone,

33:22 but our cars have 144 written on them,

33:24 wherever we go,

33:26 they start getting marked,

33:28 so, will anyone break down on such occasions,

33:30 if you keep doing injustice to the weakest person,

33:32 then he will never be in your favour,

33:34 whenever he gets a chance,

33:36 he will retaliate,

33:38 and how do you do it in this democracy,

33:40 you do it through votes,

33:42 people will come out in large numbers,

33:44 people will vote,

33:46 there will be a huge turnover,

33:48 you can see the turnout,

33:50 and as a result,

33:52 whoever gets more votes,

33:54 will win, in an ideal world,

33:56 if there is a free environment,

33:58 you should give us a chance to say something,

34:00 I am just saying,

34:02 and I hope there will be a free and fair election,

34:04 Muneeb, I want to ask you again,

34:06 I have a political argument,

34:08 which is happening again and again,

34:10 that will Nawaz Sharif become the Prime Minister,

34:12 what is your hunch?

34:14 The argument of PMLN is that,

34:16 we have to make Nia sit where she was sent,

34:18 which is said in a lot of emotions,

34:20 so, we have to make Nia sit where she was sent,

34:22 so, it is fine,

34:24 if Nia comes and is made independent,

34:26 and she is made to meet,

34:28 whatever happens,

34:30 so, it is fine,

34:32 but if I,

34:34 the inherent,

34:36 people have their own characteristics,

34:38 and I am not saying that,

34:40 I am not saying that,

34:42 but people have their own characteristics,

34:44 if I go on that,

34:46 then I feel that,

34:48 if Nia is given,

34:50 a united,

34:52 manufactured,

34:54 and as they say,

34:56 a government of a made type,

34:58 which has nothing to do with it,

35:00 if that is given, then it won't even work,

35:02 that is because,

35:04 no doubt,

35:06 it is the respect of Mr. Shahbaz,

35:08 that he keeps saying that Nia has become the state's president,

35:10 so, the inherent things that you have in your mind,

35:12 you have, I have, we have,

35:14 all that is sitting in our mind, that won't change,

35:16 Sir, but will it not work, or will Mr. Nia not be ready to take it?

35:18 These are two different things.

35:20 Two, that is fine,

35:22 if Mr. Nia takes it,

35:24 as they say in Punjabi,

35:26 it is very soon,

35:28 secondly, if Mr. Nia gets that thing,

35:30 I may be wrong,

35:32 I may be totally wrong,

35:34 but somehow I got the sense,

35:36 from somewhere,

35:38 that, one thing has become completely out of the question,

35:40 it is an amalgamation of different,

35:42 different political parties,

35:44 different, you know, interest groups,

35:46 so, Mr. Shahbaz can somehow,

35:48 steer it through.

35:50 Mr. Nia may not come.

35:52 Mr. Nia may not come in that case.

35:54 This is what I feel, I may be wrong.

35:56 Mr. Nia, there is another factor in this,

35:58 that is, Mariam Nawaz Sharif Sahiba,

36:00 obviously, if Mr. Nia comes back,

36:02 he will want that Mariam Nawaz Sahiba

36:04 is also set politically somewhere.

36:06 Although, I have recently heard the voice

36:08 of the Foreign Minister,

36:10 I have heard the voice of the Chief Minister before,

36:12 this is the quid pro quo,

36:14 which can happen, that if Mr. Shahbaz becomes the Prime Minister,

36:16 then give the voice to Mariam Nawaz Sahiba.

36:18 If this happens, then what do you think,

36:20 in this whole situation,

36:22 who is the Prime Minister, who is the Chief Minister,

36:24 who is the Chief Minister of Punjab?

36:26 I have got this sense,

36:28 that it seems that,

36:30 regarding the Ministry of Foreign Affairs,

36:32 there is still a thought,

36:34 that if the Moon League wins,

36:36 then Nawaz Sharif Sahiba will become the Prime Minister.

36:38 And that is why,

36:40 there is still no decisiveness on this,

36:42 because of the same thing,

36:44 that Muneeb sahib said,

36:46 that the system as it is now,

36:48 or as Mr. Durrani was hinting yesterday,

36:50 that the Prime Minister will be the same,

36:52 who is running with the SIFC,

36:54 obviously, I don't repeat my background,

36:56 all the things have been said by Muneeb sahib,

36:58 and Nawaz Sharif cannot run with SIFC.

37:00 We have all the reasons to believe,

37:02 that it is not that simple,

37:04 that Nawaz Sharif will become the Prime Minister.

37:06 That is why this formula comes to mind,

37:08 and there are talks that,

37:10 once he sits on that chair,

37:12 that I have become the Prime Minister,

37:14 I have to take out the wrong,

37:16 and I have come,

37:18 and after that only he should step back.

37:20 So all these possibilities,

37:22 are very less in today's election.

37:24 So you are saying that it is also possible,

37:26 that Muneeb sahib becomes the Prime Minister for 6 months,

37:28 and steps back,

37:30 but in that case,

37:32 Mariam Nawaz will not be able to become the CM.

37:34 But Mariam Nawaz will not be able to become the CM.

37:36 Yes, but,

37:38 but if this formula is done,

37:40 at any point of time,

37:42 that if Mian sahib goes to a,

37:44 a pinking maker or party head position,

37:46 and Shahbaz sahib comes to the centre,

37:48 then this opens the way for Mian sahib,

37:50 to come in the politics of the next generation,

37:52 in Mian sahib's life,

37:54 and in power, because in that case,

37:56 Mariam bibi comes to Punjab,

37:58 and she will be the Prime Minister of Punjab.

38:00 So that is why,

38:02 this election is very interesting in this sense,

38:04 that this election is still on the top,

38:06 14 days are left,

38:08 but any scenario,

38:10 which is not final yet,

38:12 can be a fatal one.

38:14 All these possibilities are open,

38:16 till today.

38:18 And see, Mian sahib had to come and fix the country,

38:20 you know that,

38:22 Mian sahib has to fix the country,

38:24 the last 5 years of the government,

38:26 the last 5 years of the government,

38:28 will be in its place,

38:30 but what do you think,

38:32 what will the upper and lower arrangements,

38:34 of the Muslim League do?

38:36 See, in the Jamaat,

38:38 it is being said that,

38:40 Mian sahib is your front runner,

38:42 but some people are also saying,

38:44 that Mariam bibi can come forward,

38:46 like the Jalsa that took place in Afzabad,

38:48 where she herself gave a speech,

38:50 then Mariam bibi came forward,

38:52 and then the next one is the Prime Minister.

38:54 So, if Mariam Nawaz Sahib becomes the PM,

38:56 why not?

38:58 And why not, if anyone wins,

39:00 then there should be a right of the party.

39:02 Yes, if the party has a mandate,

39:04 then it should be made,

39:06 but the issue is,

39:08 can't Mian sahib run on his own,

39:10 because he is not ready to compromise,

39:12 on the principles of the party.

39:14 I think this is a little argument,

39:16 that now at least,

39:18 he can't run the coalition,

39:20 if not compromise on the principles.

39:22 He can't run it, he can't do it.

39:24 Now, look, the way the vote was given respect,

39:26 and whatever happened,

39:28 everything happened,

39:30 the way Dr. Faisal gave them the protocol,

39:32 and sent them from London,

39:34 after that, I think, now...

39:36 Read the column of Mr. Warraich.

39:38 Yes, yes.

39:40 There was something else in the beginning,

39:42 and something else in the middle.

39:44 There were some restrictions for the People's Party,

39:46 then they reduced,

39:48 all these things are changing,

39:50 how will they form,

39:52 will they form with the People's Party,

39:54 or independently?

39:56 Whether they want to form,

39:58 the real question is,

40:00 will they form with the People's Party coalition?

40:02 Sir, the one who left so much popularity,

40:04 who left the promises of giving respect to his vote,

40:06 the one on whose ticket,

40:08 the government of Imran Khan...

40:10 But they can adjust their daughter,

40:12 look, this is,

40:14 when they came,

40:16 they must have been thinking something else,

40:18 they must have been thinking something else.

40:20 If someone else in the family,

40:22 then it can be something else,

40:24 the rest is a matter of opinion.

40:26 Muneeb, because you have drawn a map,

40:28 of the coming days,

40:30 give me another answer to the question,

40:32 I have only 20-30 seconds.

40:34 With the name of Maryam Nawaz,

40:36 it was said that there was a thorn,

40:38 is that a thorn or is it over?

40:40 There is no thorn, Mr. Faisal.

40:42 Right, so everything is okay?

40:44 Absolutely, there is no thorn at the moment.

40:46 The speed dial has been working very well,

40:48 till now.

40:50 Now the speed dial is in the phones of

40:52 Mr. Mian and Maryam,

40:54 and it works very well.

40:56 So the speed dial of Mr. Mian and Maryam Nawaz

40:58 is working, let's take a break,

41:00 after the break, we will be back.

41:02 You have heard the entire conversation,

41:04 it is an interesting time,

41:06 because every election is interesting,

41:08 it has its own dynamics,

41:10 this election also has its own dynamics.

41:12 In 2018, the faces have changed,

41:14 the people have become very strict,

41:16 and we are still discussing what will happen,

41:18 what is manageable, what will be managed,

41:20 people will come out, they will be allowed to come out,

41:22 that decision will be made on 8th February,

41:24 but one thing is decided,

41:26 a level playing field should be found,

41:28 if you want to make credibility of the elections,

41:30 if you want them to be accepted,

41:32 and the situation does not get worse,

41:34 as Shahid Khan Abbasi said,

41:36 that they are seeing a trend,

41:38 then as much as they are free,

41:40 they will be able to do it,

41:42 and then, as much as the elections will be free,

41:44 as much as the acceptance of the elections will be,

41:46 otherwise the situation gets worse,

41:48 just like after 2018,

41:50 Maulana Sahib came with a protest,

41:52 after 2013, Imran Khan Sahib came with a protest,

41:54 may Allah be kind,

41:56 I hope everything goes well,

41:58 I take your leave, Allah Hafiz.

42:00 I hope everything goes well. Ijazat deeke. Talak toh.

Off The Record | Kashif Abbasi | ARY News | 25th Januray 2024

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