Unpacked: S3, E2: Where to Go On a Cruise—Even if You Don't Like Cruises

AFAR

There’s a special magic to being at sea. Watching a port retreat as a ship begins to sail, the sensation of gently (or not so gently) rocking waves, the expansiveness of open water. This week’s episode is all about that magic, whether you would label yourself a “cruiser” or not.  To get the scoop on the high seas, we’re hearing from Fran Golden, who covers the cruise world for AFAR. Fran is a bonafide cruise expert. She’s been on more than 170 ships (at times, she’s taken up to 12 cruises a year), she’s written several books on cruising, and she loves every minute of it.   She shares her favorite itineraries for 2024 (including a sail along the western coast of Africa), the best cruise lines for every traveler (from small, casual sailboats to luxurious ocean liners), and tips and tricks for finding a good deal, even if you’re a solo traveler.   There are plenty of surprises, too: Fran gets seasick, for one. So she has excellent advice for anyone who goes green around the gills at the thought of stepping on a ship. And she talks a lot about sustainability, which is a key focus for the cruise industry right now, and for us here at AFAR.  Read the full transcript here: https://rebrand.ly/r6vuw84  Discover more episodes of the Unpacked by AFAR podcast here:  AFAR: https://afar.com/podcasts/unpacked Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/unpacked-by-afar/id1625156097  ---- CONNECT WITH AFAR Afar.com is a digital and print magazine that publishes travel tips, guides, news, and stories: https://www.afar.com  Get updates on the latest articles, travel news, and more from AFAR by signing up for the AFAR newsletter: https://afar.com/newsletters  Follow AFAR on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AfarMedia Follow AFAR on Twitter: https://twitter.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/afarmedia Follow AFAR on Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/afarmedia

Transcript

00:00 Hey everyone, and welcome to the third season of Unpacked, a podcast by afar.

00:04 I'm Aislinn, and as you can probably tell by this giant microphone in front of my face,

00:08 I host the show. Every week on the podcast, we unpack a different tricky topic in travel,

00:15 and this week is no exception. This is Unpacked.

00:18 Well, Fran, welcome to Unpacked. It's so nice to have you here today.

00:29 Well, thank you. I'm happy to be here.

00:30 And you're not on a cruise ship right now, it looks like.

00:34 I'm just off a cruise ship. I unpacked yesterday.

00:38 No, where were you? Where did you come from?

00:40 I was on a new cruise line called Explora Journeys, cruising from Barbados to Miami.

00:47 Wow. And how was that?

00:49 It's very nice. It's a really interesting new line that's sort of resort style.

00:57 A big ship for about 700 guests, so kind of an exclusive experience,

01:04 but on a ship with a lot of space. Yeah. And did you stop at various

01:09 islands along the way? I did. I wandered around St. Kitts

01:12 and St. Lucia, Castries, and also we went to Antigua, so we were in St. John's, where I did

01:21 a fabulous little shore excursion, which was yoga on a beach overlooking a yacht harbor. It was just

01:29 breathtaking. And I had never actually done yoga on the beach, so that was a lot of fun.

01:33 Yeah, that's cool. We just recorded our Where to Go in 2024 episode, and St. Kitts is one of

01:39 the destinations because of the rum manufacturing that's increased there.

01:45 Yeah. And it's a lovely area. There's some beaches there where you can be on a narrow

01:53 strip and actually have beaches on both sides and with very few people around. So that's what

02:00 I like about St. Kitts. How lovely. Well, I would love to hear more

02:05 about your cruising background because I know that you are deeply experienced in this world.

02:09 What drew you to cruising and how often do you sail?

02:14 Well, I like to joke that what drew me to cruising is my family went across from New York to

02:20 England when I was about two or three years old on the old SS United States. I don't really have

02:27 any memories of that, but I suppose it was something that may have pushed me in that

02:32 direction. But what drew me to cruising was I was working for a travel publication and they

02:40 assigned me to go on a ship. And the first ship I went on was a Norwegian cruise line ship where

02:46 I shared a cabin with my husband and two very young children. And it was an inside cabin and

02:52 the kids were on bunk beds. But somehow the experience stuck with me in a positive sort

02:58 of family-oriented way. Following that, I was assigned to go on Seabourn, which was then an

03:04 up and coming luxury brand. And it was such a heavenly week on board with champagne and caviar

03:11 and the like that I did not want to get off. And the kids were not on that one.

03:15 A very different experience.

03:17 Exactly.

03:18 Oh, wow. And so how did you kind of parlay that into what you do now, which is, it seems like

03:24 cover cruising full-time.

03:26 Right. Which I've done pretty much since the 1990s. I mean, with some breaks for editing jobs and

03:33 that kind of thing to pay the bills. But yeah, no, I just, you know, I was in the right place at

03:39 the right time. I had only been on a few cruises when I met an editor who was looking to assign

03:46 the book Idiot's Guide to Cruise Vacations, which I took on. And then Idiot's became Dummies,

03:54 got sold to Dummies. And Dummies, I did the Dummies Guide to Cruise Vacations and then a

03:58 whole lot of cruise books for Fromers. And that kind of, you know, got me into that realm. And,

04:06 you know, if I'm counting now, I think I've been on 170 ships. So it's, you know, there's a lot of

04:13 background there. Some of them, honestly, I've just gone on to inspect for a day or two. Like,

04:18 you know, sometimes it's just a quick look. But no, I've had some really amazing experiences on

04:24 the high seas. And I will admit, and this may come as a shock to you, I get seasick.

04:29 - No, really?

04:31 - Yeah, so it probably wasn't the correct, you know, profession for me to choose. But

04:39 I load up on my Dramamine or Bonine or wristbands or behind the ear patches or everything I can

04:48 possibly get my hands on if it's rough seas. And I make it work.

04:52 - And, I mean, you love it enough that it's worth that, it sounds like.

04:57 - I mean, it's the way I've seen the world. I've been to about 105 countries. And my

05:03 knowledge of the inland world is much less than my knowledge of the seaside world.

05:08 - Wow, that is fascinating to me. And do you still feel like when you set sail somewhere new

05:15 or somewhere you've been, do you still feel kind of a rush?

05:18 - Absolutely. And, you know, and I put myself in situations where I will have that rush with,

05:25 like, adventure activities and that kind of thing. But even in a port like St. Kitts that I've been

05:31 to, you know, numerous times, there's always, you know, I always look, and I think all travel

05:36 writers will tell you this, but I always look for that intimate human encounter. You know,

05:43 I tell people when you go on a, sit on a park bench and see what happens, or walk into a grocery

05:48 store and see what happens, you know, talk to people. And those are the memories I think that

05:54 really stick with us. - Yeah, absolutely. Well,

05:57 how often do you sail these days? - It's been up to 12 times a year.

06:03 I've cut it back a little bit in the past year 'cause I've had a lot of writing to do. But,

06:10 yeah, I've been known to get on a ship every month. - Amazing. Amazing.

06:14 - Amazing or crazy. - I don't know. I mean,

06:19 you are clearly, you wrote the book or books on cruising. You're clearly a pro, so I can see why.

06:25 I would love to actually, a little bit later, get your tips for people who do get seasick,

06:31 'cause it sounds like you. - Absolutely.

06:33 - But which companies are you excited about right now? You know?

06:38 - Well, I am excited about the new Explorer Journeys. I'm always excited about Windstar

06:46 Cruises, which is a line that I often recommend to friends because they're really small ships. Their

06:52 largest capacity is 342 guests. And also they're the official cruise line of the James Beard

06:59 Foundation. - Amazing.

07:01 - I'm personally trying to do all the, or many of the adventure lines right now while I still

07:08 have the energy. So my next cruise, which will be in January, is a new route, which I'm very

07:16 excited about on the Western coast of Africa, leaving from Dakar and going to the Cape Verde

07:24 and the Sagos Islands and Gambia. And so I'm really excited about that. It'll be a lot of,

07:33 probably pretty intense hiking and zodiac tours and snorkeling. And I just bought new water shoes

07:40 that cover my ankles so baby stingrays and other things don't bother me.

07:46 - And who is that with? Is that with? - That's with Hurtigruten, which is a Norwegian

07:53 line, which it's a company that does regular service up and down the coast, delivering goods

08:03 and carrying some passengers to all the coastal communities on the West coast of Norway. But they

08:12 also have some expedition ships and they're rebranding now as Ajax. So I'm going on Ajax.

08:22 - Okay, okay. And what is Explora Journeys known for? What's their-

08:27 - Explora Journeys is actually owned by MSC Group, which also owns the mainstream line,

08:33 MSC Cruises, which is well known, particularly in Europe and making a lot of inroads in the US.

08:38 And the family owns MSC, which is the freighter ships as well. And they have started this line

08:50 to provide again, that luxury experience, but not on a small ship. So there is a pickleball

08:55 court and there is a small casino. And there's like five restaurants, which by the way,

09:02 have some of the best food I've ever eaten on a cruise ship. Eating is a big part of the experience.

09:06 - Yeah, absolutely. - But what's cool about being on a big ship,

09:13 but with again, like, they're going to try to limit it to about 700 passengers.

09:18 There's so many pools and so much outdoor space that you really can pretend you're on a yacht.

09:24 And speaking of that, there's also a lot of new ships coming out that really are like super yachts.

09:30 Like for instance, last year I went on the first Ritz-Carlton yacht. And again, like I think people

09:40 traveling today are looking for relaxation and I don't think there's anything better than being at

09:48 an infinity pool by yourself, sitting on a day bed, looking at the sea.

09:53 - Hard to complain about that one. Are there any ships that you're particularly looking forward

10:00 to in 2024? - It's interesting because the new ships in 2024, the one that everybody

10:08 will be reading about is Icon of the Seas, which is the world's largest ship,

10:13 which carries some 7,000 passengers plus crews. So you're in a small town on the high seas.

10:20 And it's a ship that's operated with liquefied natural gas, which is the cleanest burning

10:27 fossil fuel available to ships right now. So it does have that, you know, some will argue that

10:35 there are other things that happen with LNG, although there's capture programs for methane

10:39 now and they're really trying to build these ships now that will eventually use the same

10:46 facilities they have on board to carry sustainable fuels. So we're seeing a precursor of the,

10:53 you know, cruise lines going much more eco-friendly and all the cruise lines that are

11:00 members of the Cruise Lines International Association have committed to pursuing net zero

11:05 by 2050. But Icon of the Seas is just, I mean, just with that many people and all kinds of new

11:12 attractions. So that's one. There's going to be a sister ship to Silver Nova, which is another,

11:20 which also operates on LNG and hybrid forms of energy, including batteries. And, you know,

11:29 that ship has taken a much more resort-like focus in Silver Sea Cruises, which is a very fancy

11:36 ultra luxury line has done before. So I'm looking forward to that. And Ritz Carlton will be bringing

11:42 out a new slightly larger yacht. So how many people can sail on their yachts or at least the

11:48 first one? Well, the first one is 298 passengers. I think the second one is approaching 450.

11:56 Small. They're small. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you've, you've talked a little bit about this,

12:00 you know, the environmental, you know, sustainability angle and pickleball

12:05 courts, but how have you seen cruising change in recent years? Well, I think the big change,

12:10 and I have a story about this, but is the advent of fast Wi-Fi. And, you know, that may,

12:19 that may sound silly, but I got married on a cruise ship. And when I, when I got married,

12:26 it was a princess ship. And when I got married on the cruise ship, among my guests was

12:30 a lawyer who's a litigator for a major corporate firm. And my cousin who was, you know, at the

12:39 time, a big time consultant. And I saw the two of them go absolutely crazy because they had

12:46 information they had to receive or send. And to the point where my lawyer friend was ready to fly

12:52 off the private island for a few hours to get to NASA, you know, in the Bahamas, the cruise lines

12:59 island to NASA, just to, you know, to send a deposition or whatever it was she had to send. So

13:04 as it turned out, there is a secret, even if you're on a ship that doesn't have,

13:09 you know, lots of Wi-Fi capability, which is to get up in the middle of the night when everybody

13:15 else is sleeping and nobody else is using the system. But anyway, there is Starlink on cruise

13:20 ships now and they're, you know, they're all falling in line, signing up and it's fast and,

13:25 you know, wonderful if you have to work on vacation, which a lot of us, you know, can't

13:30 take more than a few days off without addressing, if nothing else, all our emails. So that's a big

13:38 one. I also am really, you know, we'll talk about food again, but I'm really fascinated with how

13:45 cruise lines have really come up with ways to suit all tastes. Like a lot of the cruise lines now

13:50 have vegan menus and will do, you know, raw food if you request. And they definitely have gluten

14:00 free and fat free and everything else that you could possibly want. They've really adapted. And

14:06 they've also added all kinds of specialty restaurants. On the all-inclusive lines,

14:12 you usually don't pay extra. On the mainstream lines, you might pay extra, but you can have,

14:19 you know, you can go to a sushi restaurant or a Pan-Asian restaurant. You can go to a French

14:23 restaurant. You can go to Italian. So again, like taking that approach of the resorts and just

14:29 having a wide array of restaurants, I think is a big selling point. And then the other thing is

14:36 the focus on outdoors. So on most of the new builds, not all of them, but deck space is really

14:43 thought through. So you don't necessarily have to be with the crowds at a middle of the ship pool.

14:49 Yeah, that's wonderful. Well, are there, so bundling all of that together, and you know,

14:56 you've mentioned a couple of trips that you're taking this year, but which itineraries are you

15:01 particularly excited about in 2024? Anything new? I'm certainly excited about that western coast of

15:08 Africa, you know, again, an untapped area. I'm excited, although I haven't figured out how to go

15:14 on yet. There's going to be some river cruises in Colombia for the first time. We're also seeing a

15:21 lot of ships, the luxury and expedition lines looking at the Kimberley region of Australia,

15:29 and on to like Raja Amput in Indonesia, some New Guinea, you know, so you know, more of that

15:36 Pacific focus, especially with the expedition ships, they've pretty much focused on the

15:44 Arctic, even some ships going to the actual North Pole, wherever it is at that moment.

15:50 And Antarctica, but now we're seeing expedition ships go to other areas, including sort of

15:58 exploring the Mediterranean and places like that with more of an expedition angle. And some of

16:05 those ships have helicopters and submarines, so if you're looking for a new view of destinations,

16:13 I have done the helicopter in Greenland, with Quark Expeditions, an expedition line.

16:21 And it was amazing. And in fact, they offered I was on a Northwest Passage and Greenland trip,

16:29 and they offered three separate opportunities to go up in the helicopters. The first one,

16:34 you know, was on a beautiful clear day. The second one I passed on, I don't know,

16:39 the idea of going out in fog and then landing on the ship did not appeal to me, but everything was

16:43 fine, you know. But the third one was taking people to the top of the glacier to hike. And

16:51 I've hiked glaciers in Alaska before, so I'd had that experience and I had some things I needed to

16:57 do back on the ship. So I just asked the pilot, would it be okay if I do a round trip with him?

17:03 And there was nobody else on this wonderful Airbus helicopter. And he said, "Do you want to see what

17:08 this baby can do?" And I was suddenly in top gun. It was terrifying and fascinating. Oh, you know,

17:17 sort of going up towards the mountain until the helicopter goes, "Warning, warning!"

17:22 No, I mean, it was just really, you know, I felt like I was in very good hands the entire time.

17:31 But it was just really fun.

17:33 Wow. Talk about an expedition.

17:36 Exactly.

17:36 But not the submarine. You haven't done the submarine yet.

17:40 I haven't done the submarine yet. And it's just, just circumstantial, you know, circumstances. I

17:45 will do it eventually when given the opportunity.

17:48 Wow. That is so cool. For people who are kind of drawn to the outdoors and expeditions,

17:55 what would you recommend for them?

18:00 Well, two places I'd probably start. One is the Galapagos, which is just, I love the Galapagos.

18:08 My most recent trip was on Silver Origin. You know, you're on it. Well, in that case,

18:15 you're on just a beautiful luxury ship. But you also are out all day in zodiacs, either,

18:22 you know, looking for bird life and other creatures along the shoreline, or you're taking

18:27 a zodiac on land to, for instance, walk on volcanic rock past, I don't know, 10,000 giant iguanas.

18:35 Or, you know, you're taking a zodiac and snorkeling. And if you're like me, you're a

18:44 shark whisperer. So you'll see one, two, five, maybe more sharks come checking you out.

18:53 You know, they're reef sharks. So even though they can be dangerous, they're not particularly

18:58 looking for you. You mentioned Quark. Is that a cruise line that you would recommend for people

19:04 who want to have that activity? Yeah, that's one of them. You know, there's such thing as

19:11 luxury expedition lines. Scenic from Australia is one. There's Atlas Ocean Voyages, which is

19:19 Portuguese owned is another. I had the most magnificent Antarctica experience with Abercroppy

19:28 and Kent, the luxury tour operator. They use penult ships in Antarctica, and they bring in

19:36 their own team. And I'm talking, we had some of the, you know, best bird experts in South America.

19:43 I mean, just an incredible group of more than two dozen expedition guides. What I like about

19:50 Quark, by the way, in Greenland in particular, is they have a program where they bring on two

19:56 Inuit chefs who do sort of a gourmet version of Inuit cuisine using foraged and hunted and

20:06 fish for ingredients. And it was kind of mind blowing. Yeah. Wow. Wow. Well, speaking of Penan,

20:14 I sailed with them to Antarctica about five years ago. And it was and it was over the kind of New

20:21 Year's time. And it was one of the highlights of my life for sure. Like the ships are beautiful,

20:26 fantastic French food, and then you know, ringing in the new year.

20:31 Out, you know, passing whales and icebergs. And yeah, it was exceptional. Yeah. Antarctica's a

20:39 trip. And you know, that was cool as you can. There's different itineraries that you can do.

20:44 Like now something that's sort of caught on Silversea is doing, Linblad is starting it,

20:50 I think next season is you can fly part of the way to Antarctica and only cruise for a week. You

20:59 know, it used to be these cruises were always two weeks or longer. And now there's a way to fly in,

21:06 you know, see some of Antarctica and get back quickly. And are you skipping the passage then?

21:13 You are skipping the passage, which, you know, in my case, my last case was, you know, Drake's Lake.

21:21 But I have friends who've gone through the passage and been strapped into their beds,

21:25 which wouldn't make me happy. So but anyway, the other thing with Antarctica is I've been

21:31 advising people my itinerary, which was 17 days, also went to South Georgia. And South Georgia has

21:39 a lot more penguins in Antarctica, the sub sub Arctic area. I mean, at one point, I landed on a

21:47 beach with 100,000 pairs of mating king penguins. And they're all they're the size of a small child.

21:54 So if you can imagine yourself, you know, and then of course, among them are elephant seals, these

21:59 giant, you know, slow moving creatures, and somehow they get along with the penguins and

22:05 nobody bothers each other. It's just, you know, it's one of those, you know, if you want to feel

22:11 like you're in a nature documentary, I think that's a much do and I feel that way again,

22:15 about Galapagos, too, especially in the water. Wow, wow. So we would recommend if you're going

22:22 that far, try to tack that on or find an itinerary that has that. Yeah, okay. Well,

22:28 you mentioned it earlier. And I do feel like we can't talk about cruising without talking about

22:32 the kind of sustainability aspect of it all. How what what are you seeing? How has that changed?

22:38 Which cruise lines would you recommend? Well, I mean, I think, you know, in general,

22:42 cruise lines are committed to reducing plastics. So, you know, you know, single use plastics. So

22:50 I think that's really an important thing to look at. There are some ships coming out now with with

22:59 the hybrid fuel systems and propulsion systems. So you you know, you can look at look at a ship

23:09 that at least runs part of the time on batteries. Pinalt has a ship like that and I think Herter

23:17 Gruten does and some other lines, too. I think that as we move forward, you'll want to see what

23:25 fuels specifically cruise ships are are using. There's all kinds of things on the table. There

23:32 is, like I say, liquefied natural gas, methanol. Explorer Journeys is talking about hydrogen for

23:41 their fifth and sixth ship. And what the cruise lines haven't done is gotten on the same page,

23:48 but they're all looking in this room and and, you know, and they're all there have already been more

23:53 than, I think, three dozen experiments using sustainable fuels from crops, from manure.

24:02 But there's but there are those kinds of experiments. So what I would do is if you're

24:06 considering a cruise line, I would look at their online presence in terms of sustainability.

24:12 Some cruise lines are actually, you know, offsetting carbon, you know, by giving contributions and

24:20 that kind of, you know, there's there's that type of thing taking place. Explorer Journeys,

24:24 which I was just on, has a huge reef conservation project at their private island in the Bahamas

24:33 that they're funding. And to give you an example of how well the cruise lines are starting to do,

24:39 like that ship that I was on, Explorer One, the godmother is Sylvia Earle, who's one of the most

24:45 well-known marine biologists and ocean conservationists. And I said to her, you know,

24:50 like, really? You're looking at the cruise industry? And, you know, her attitude is they

24:55 have money to spend and they're committed to sustainability. So why wouldn't I be?

25:00 Yeah. And I've heard that from other conservationists, too. So the bottom line, the

25:06 cruise lines are putting their money where their mouth is on sustainability. And it's really

25:12 fascinating to watch. And there'll be a lot of things I should mention. Cruise lines are also

25:17 greatly, greatly, during COVID, they all focused on greatly reducing how much fuel they need.

25:24 So they updated HVAC systems and, you know, this type of thing. And most ships are making their

25:31 own water, almost all their own water in some cases. And so they're not going to impact communities

25:40 that may be short on water. And they also, the cruise industry has also developed plug-in

25:46 capabilities. So literally, there's a giant plug that can plug the cruise ship in at a port that

25:53 has sustainable energy, and they can just turn off all their engines. Of course, it doesn't work

25:58 if the port itself isn't, you know, it doesn't have sustainable energy. And unfortunately, very

26:03 few ports around the world have that right now. But the cruise lines, SeaDream, it just announced

26:09 that they were adding the plugs, you know, they're actually making the investment in adding this

26:15 technology so they can plug in. Oh, that's great. So that may be something that we see over the

26:19 next few years is more port cities adding that capability. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Well, you know,

26:27 we hear this sometimes. People say that I'm not a cruiser, you know, that's just not what I do.

26:32 What would you say to someone who thinks that they aren't a cruiser?

26:36 So I would say, first of all, that there are parts of the world that are best seen

26:42 from a cruise ship. And that would, to me, include, well, at least the southeast coast of Alaska,

26:50 in some other parts of Alaska, obviously, the Galapagos, because, you know,

26:55 you don't want to just go to the Galapagos and be on land. That doesn't work.

27:02 And, and Antarctica and, you know, and there's others. I could almost argue the Caribbean,

27:12 because you're seeing so many different islands, whereas you're not, you know,

27:16 you're not just going to one island and island hopping isn't particularly easy, which is why I

27:23 put the Greek islands also in that category. And, you know, and by the way, Italy and France,

27:31 the coastal Italy and France, another one that's a lot easier, I think. And there is a cruise ship

27:37 for everyone. There are such things as sailing cruise ships, they might call them sailing yachts,

27:43 but they're cruise ships. There are cruise ships that have under 50 passengers. So if you're like,

27:50 oh, I can't be with a crowd. You can be on a very small ship. And, you know, it's like a hotel,

28:00 there is one for everybody's taste. You might not like to go to a big name brand chain,

28:06 you might seek out boutique hotels or Airbnbs. There are cruise equivalents.

28:10 Yeah, yeah. You know, I would say I didn't have a strong opinion either way, but it just wasn't

28:16 part of my life. You know, I'd never done it. And then what kind of changed my mind was a backroads

28:22 river cruise through here, there was a cycling river cruise. And so every day, we go off. And

28:28 so we're getting kind of beyond these port towns and cycling into these incredible, you know,

28:33 like fields. One day we crossed over from Austria to Slovakia, and we actually cycled over the

28:39 border. And it was and then every day you come back, eat dinner, you're, everything's in the

28:44 same place, you're not packing your gear with you. And I was just blown away by that experience.

28:48 It was quite right. I mean, basically the ship, you know, your hotel goes with you, right? Yeah.

28:54 So, so it's very carefree. I mean, to me, I'm a real type A, and I get on a ship and I relax. I

29:01 mean, they're feeding me, somebody is making my bed, sometimes even two times a day, you know,

29:06 if I take a nap, and I come back after dinner, and my bed's made again. And, you know, there's a

29:12 certain sort of pampering element. You've got crew from more than 60 countries around the world,

29:18 and, you know, just just amazing people to talk to and hear their experiences. And, you know,

29:26 you can travel at a very high, you know, champagne and caviar level or a very rustic level too. I

29:33 mean, personally, I tend to go, my favorite are ships where I can just pack my normal clothes

29:41 and not have to worry about, you know, extreme formality. On the other hand, some of my most

29:49 wonderful cruise experiences have been on the Queen Mary II Ocean Liner, which is definitely

29:55 formal and has a ballroom where people wear ball gowns. And, you know, it's a total different kind

30:01 of experience. So there's just such a broad spectrum. To say you don't want to be on a cruise

30:06 ship is like saying I never want to go to a hotel. Yeah, yeah, that's so interesting. I love that.

30:12 What would you recommend for people who don't want the formality? Well, I mean, like I said,

30:17 the one I'm about to go on in West Africa, the Herdegruten, I mean, I have a pile of,

30:22 consisting right now of t-shirts and some old safari clothes, and a couple hats. And that's

30:28 probably what I'm taking. A couple bathing suits, you know, some water shoes. On the ship I was just

30:35 on, Explorer I, you're not required, there's no dress code. It's what you feel like wearing. Now,

30:42 granted, some people, you know, wore jackets at night. I mean, the only time it was recommended

30:47 that is semi-formal is this extraordinary experience they have where they bring a land-based

30:54 chef on board. And right now they, you know, or at least that person designs the menus. And right

30:59 now the menu is by the chef from Aquavit in New York. And I think it was 190 euros per person and

31:08 worth every penny. Wow. I mean, you know, it's that Scandinavian, Scandinavians rule on extreme

31:16 gourmet food these days, but it was really creative and wonderful. So, you know, there is,

31:23 again, that spectrum. But I mean, in Alaska there's uncruises, very relaxed, limblad expeditions,

31:30 tends to not put a lot of focus on what you're wearing. It's easy to find these experiences.

31:38 If you want that barefoot windjammer experience, you could find that too. So, you know, if you

31:43 want to be on a ship, a sailing ship and help pull the ropes, you know, that's out there. Wow. How

31:49 cool. I would like to do that someday. It's fun. I've done it. It's like, you know, windjammer,

31:56 to me, windjammers are like camp for adults, you know, especially when you're sharing a head.

32:01 Most of them you would have your own. Yeah. If you really want the summer camp experience,

32:10 you could look for that. Exactly. You mentioned that food is a big component of this for you

32:16 and that you like Windstar. So what do you like about that? And which other lines would you go for

32:21 if you're a food person, food driven? There's so many and there's cruise lines that you would go

32:29 to for wine as well. I like variety. What I like on Windstar in particular is some of the cruises

32:38 actually will have a chef chosen by the James Beard Foundation on board, you know, doing cooking

32:45 classes and all that. And, you know, that's lovely experience. They also have a tapas bar and,

32:52 you know, also a restaurant that focuses really on, well, there's French cuisine, but they also

32:59 always have dishes prepared with local ingredients. And what I particularly enjoy on that line and

33:06 other lines are market tours with the ship's chef, which has become a new thing where they will go

33:11 off and they will purchase ingredients. And I was on the Seabourn ship in the Middle East

33:18 and the chef went off looking for fish and couldn't quite find what he was looking for at the

33:25 market in terms of quality and the amount he would need to feed everyone on board. But he did have

33:31 quite a discussion with somebody selling dates and walked away with a barrel of dates. And, you know,

33:37 it's kind of like, will the passengers eat all those dates? And he said, "Oh, Fran, you forget

33:43 that there's crew on board. What the passengers will eat, the crew will eat in terms of those

33:49 wonderful dates." So that's amazing. Okay. Yeah. The market tour. What a great way to see

33:57 a new city or town. Well, exactly. And when you're with a chef who, you know, speaks the language or

34:03 has an interpreter and really, I mean, I was with a chef who picked tomatoes at a market in Nice,

34:09 you know, it's just like the whole process of him tasting and fussing and making sure everything was

34:15 particularly right. I just really enjoy that. But there's almost all the luxury lines, Regent,

34:22 Crystal, Seabourn, Silversea, Explora, Ritz-Carlton, they put an emphasis on wonderful food.

34:31 And, you know, on those lines in particular, you're going to find the truffles and the foie gras

34:37 and the caviar. But in addition to that, in the mainstream lines, you know, they are also now

34:44 focusing a bit on sustainable products. So Holland America in particular is only serving fresh Alaska

34:53 seafood in Alaska. And they've recently translated that program. So they're going to actually pick

34:59 up fish on itineraries around the world. So you will be able to sample, you know, fresh fish from

35:07 where you're cruising. And the cruise lines are also pretty good about now getting on wine from

35:13 the regions where you're cruising. So you can try Greek wines in Greece, you can try Australian wines

35:21 in Australia. So that's another thing they're really focusing on that, you know, for the aspect

35:27 of sustainability and also because, you know, people are more curious about food. We've all

35:32 become foodies and we want that experience. And why not? You're there. Why not align in that way,

35:38 right? And then someone tell you a little bit about the winemaking or the region.

35:42 Exactly. I mean, I've always, I mean, I can't go on a cruise and not eat locally for lunch or

35:48 whatever. That's just, you know, what I do. And often what I do is, you know, go into a shop and

35:55 ask the shopkeeper where to eat. So I really, you know, get that authentic experience. But another

36:01 thing I've learned is you can look for local blogs. And even if you have to translate them,

36:07 you could find some wonderful local food blogs around the world that will lead you in the right

36:11 direction. That's a great tip. Well, we touched on it just a moment ago, but what about river

36:17 cruises specifically? Which would you recommend? Well, river cruises are the original slow travel,

36:24 right? You know, Cleopatra on the Nile. And, you know, a lot of people focus on the river cruises

36:31 in Europe, which are wonderful. I personally, my favorite route is from Budapest to Bucharest,

36:37 where you get to see Serbia and Bulgaria and, you know, and some of Croatia. And it's just a really

36:47 interesting itinerary. And then, of course, you're in Romania. So people tend to do the route between

36:56 Germany and Budapest, but consider doing the whole Danube. And same with the Rhine. You can do

37:02 pieces of it or you can do the whole thing. And, you know, from Amsterdam, you can actually, well,

37:08 there's other rivers involved too, but you can go from Amsterdam to Basel, Switzerland,

37:13 for a comprehensive experience. But there are also river cruises out elsewhere. And in April,

37:19 some friends of mine and I, five couples traveling together, were on a Dahabia in Egypt,

37:25 which is, you know, a traditional sailing boat. And it was just such a magical, casual, relaxed,

37:32 wonderful experience. All our meals were out on deck and it was hot, you know, in terms of touring

37:39 the ancient sites. But just, you know, really wonderful experience, a heartfelt crew, dressed

37:47 traditionally. And, you know, so there are other experiences on the river. And Mekong is wonderful

37:54 through Cambodia and Vietnam. Although you have to be prepared there to hear the history, and you're

38:00 going to hear the honest history. And, you know, other rivers around the world. So you can also

38:07 cruise in the U.S. on rivers, on the Mississippi or Colombian Snake, for instance. So, you know,

38:15 so if you like river cruising and you try it once in Europe, then also look at other places.

38:20 I recommend a cruise through Bordeaux, but you might not remember much of it.

38:24 Yeah. Just take lots of photos.

38:29 All those, just take photos of all those wine labels.

38:33 Yes. Good tip. Well, what about like the really nitty gritty details, like the single supplements

38:43 and the all-inclusive versus not? How do you navigate that? And it just seems like that's

38:48 a bit of a mystery to me. Yeah. I mean, that's, you know, my matter of personal taste. Do you

38:54 order the poo-poo platter and get everything or do you go, you know, separately, a la carte?

39:02 The all-inclusives provide sort of more of a, I don't know, no-brainer experience, but, you know,

39:09 because you don't have to keep worrying about what you're spending. On the other hand, you are paying

39:15 for the shore excursions that you'll be doing and the wine and beer you'll be drinking, you know,

39:20 in the fair. That said, I mean, I think for especially somebody that hasn't done a lot of

39:27 travel, Viking does a great job with their river ships and their ocean ships in giving you a

39:34 handheld experience with shore excursions in every port and good lecturers and, you know, excellent

39:41 food and all that, you know, and a value-added price that includes your tips and Wi-Fi and

39:47 everything. You can choose to do ships on a semi all-inclusive basis. Like, for instance, if you're

39:54 a big drinker, you might want to buy a drinks package so you don't have to worry about that.

39:59 Sometimes you can get a discount if you buy several shore excursions. You know, so it's

40:05 really a matter of personal taste. With the single supplement, a lot of cruise lines have gotten more

40:10 generous with their solo pricing. Oh, that's good. So, if you're looking at a particular cruise line,

40:17 I would first look to see if they have a posted deal on their website. If they don't, I would

40:22 call their reservations and see what you can negotiate. That's sort of an unknown little

40:27 tidbit because if a cruise ship is not full and they just assume have one person in the cabin,

40:34 then no one. So, you may, you know, it has traditionally been if you were a solo traveler,

40:40 you may get charged both fares. They're not really as committed, I mean, they are committed to that on,

40:45 again, sold out sailings, of course, but it's not the case on every sailing. So, I would always call

40:52 a cruise line if I'm a solo traveler and don't see a solo deal. I would call and see what they can do

40:56 for me or call a good travel agent who will know how to navigate that. I mean, that's another thing.

41:02 Cruises can be complicated. You know, you'll be asked on some ships, for instance, to figure out

41:08 what time you want to eat or make dining reservations. Or, you know, again, there's an

41:13 array of shore excursions. You can pick spa treatments. Sometimes you can and should book

41:19 those in advance. So, if you could find a travel agent that really has cruise experience, I would

41:25 recommend that. Okay, because they can help basically kind of filter what you want and need

41:31 and then take care of booking and reserving everything. Yeah, they can be your navigator.

41:36 I mean, the cruise puns are endless in your world. It's really, you really have to like rein yourself

41:44 in. I do. That's great. Okay, cool. Is there such a thing as a like an off season or a shoulder

41:52 season for cruising? Absolutely. And the best time to go is right before, you know, beginning of

42:00 December, right before the holidays because everybody's busy sending out cards and packing

42:06 and not necessarily cruising. And right before Thanksgiving, not during Thanksgiving and

42:11 Christmas and Hanukkah and New Year's, but right before any major holiday. The other times,

42:20 when the kids go back to school in the summer, so by mid-September anyway, you're going to see

42:28 some really good deals then as well. Okay, and so that could be a good time like as a solo traveler

42:33 too to consider booking some of these. Yeah, but I would always, again, you know, here's how you

42:39 can tell. You go to a cruise website such as iCruise.com or there's many others, you know,

42:46 a cruise seller, and you put in the ship and the destination that you want to go to, or maybe you

42:52 don't even put the ship, just put the destination and see what deals they have because you'll see a

42:59 wide array, you know, a ship that maybe is trying to sell for $7,000 may suddenly be $2,500 if

43:06 they're not full, right? So, I mean, there's that kind of range. So again, working with an agent,

43:12 they can help you navigate that again as well, but you can also just look online and compare,

43:20 and it's pretty easy to figure out what cruises are not full. Got it. Okay, great. Well, we talked

43:29 about this at the very beginning. I would love your tips on navigating seasickness. What do you

43:34 bring? What's in your kit? I bring, I literally bring everything I can think of. You know,

43:41 and it's funny because a friend of mine just told me that a dramamine, I believe, is making

43:46 something with ginger now. Ginger has never been the be-all, end-all, but one thing I do do on board

43:51 is, you know, just because it's supposed to be the homeopathic remedy, I will seek out pickled

43:58 ginger or candied ginger or ginger ale on board, and I think in mild cases that may help. I've had

44:05 some success with wristbands. The harder plastic ones seem to work better for me than the ones with

44:13 a stretchy band for whatever reason, and you know, with the medications, I think it's important to

44:21 test a few different ones for yourself to see your tolerance in terms of getting sleepy. Yeah. And,

44:29 and you know, for me, what I do is I put myself on a maintenance dose of like a half tablet of

44:36 dramamine, you know, just to see, you know, what the water is going to be like, and if, you know,

44:41 once I get my sea legs, I might drop it or I might up it. I can't do two tabs of dramamine. I will

44:48 be in bed. And, and you also, by the way, if you're doing any medication, have to be concerned about

44:53 drinking too much. So you might want to have that one glass of wine, but no more. Maybe don't buy

44:59 the drinks package. Yeah, exactly. I mean, the transderm patch I've had some luck with, it makes

45:07 me very, very thirsty, so I have to drink lots of water on it. Yeah. But, you know, I bring a

45:13 combination. Great. Yes. Yeah. We use the patches on our Antarctic journey and that helped. I had,

45:20 I put it on like maybe a day in because all of a sudden it just hit me out of nowhere. And we

45:26 have the Drake Lake as well, but, and that seemed to help, but we did have the dry mouth. Right. And

45:32 the other thing that you can do, obviously, if you're really feeling ill or you're not prepared,

45:37 is go to the ship's doctor and they will have an injection they can give you. Okay. And, and by the

45:43 way, also they will have a stock of tablets. I mean, I've been on some ships, a bad sign when

45:49 you're on a ship is when they put out a bowl of, of seasickness tablets. You know, it's not,

45:56 things aren't looking good. But the captain, so one thing is to, and you can, you can somewhat

46:01 predict because the captain will come on, online on the speaker system, usually at noon every day.

46:09 And, and often they will tell you what the prediction for waves is coming up. I mean,

46:16 I personally have a tolerance for five to seven foot. Once it goes above eight or nine,

46:22 I start really feeling it. So you can get some hints from what the captain is saying.

46:27 Okay. Listen to the captain. Have you, well, I shouldn't bring up triangle of sadness. Did you

46:38 ever watch that, that movie? I did. I actually thought it was hysterical, but you know,

46:44 yes. Well, it's funny because yes, I watched it recently and my sister was about to get on a ship

46:50 and I was like, you're crazy to watch this right before you go. But that was, that's an epic one.

46:55 Do you think green apple works? Have you had any success? No, but not particularly that. And that

47:01 was what, you know, my, my great aunts used to give me hard, sour candies, you know, in the back

47:06 of the car. But what really helps, I'm glad you asked that, is having a full stomach and it's

47:11 totally counterintuitive. But if you're not feeling well, eat. Oh, interesting. You know,

47:18 bread, crackers, something like that. Having a full stomach does help with the equilibrium,

47:24 at least in my case, you know, I'm not a doctor. Yeah, exactly. But you know, it's, you know,

47:30 so I will reach for that green apple if I'm hungry, you know, just to have something in my

47:36 stomach. And I have to admit to, of all my years traveling, you know, and with the medications,

47:41 I've very rarely actually been sick, you know, only on one or two cruises. I remember a particular

47:47 one off the coast of Corsica. So I have to, I have to think that, that, and one in Baja,

47:54 you know, Mexico, off Baja, Mexico. But I have to think that, you know, being cautious with the

48:00 full stomach might have something to do with that. So yeah, yeah. And you're, you come prepared. So

48:05 that's smart. Well, just looking ahead, I know you don't have a crystal ball, but what do you,

48:11 what do you think the future of cruising looks like? I think that there's, there's some prototypes

48:19 out for, for ships, you know, they are building, ships last about 30 years. So the ships that

48:24 they're building now, you know, will still be around by 2050. But I think, you know, cruise

48:29 lines, again, in terms of propulsion, we'll look at everything. Like you may even see carnival

48:34 cruise ships with wind turbines on top. There is a new collapsible wind turbine. So, you know,

48:45 that, so you can go under bridges, which would have been a factor, right? But I think you may

48:50 see that you may see solar panels on top. You may see in the future, less deck space because of the

48:56 wind turbines and solar panels. But you, I'm pretty sure you'll see electricity in there somehow.

49:04 Some of the ideas that I've heard, such as nuclear cruise ships, I don't think I really buy.

49:10 Nobody's announced that yet, but, but you will see as, as they develop again, green methanol,

49:17 green LNG, synthetic LNG, you'll definitely see a push to those because cruise lines, look, they

49:23 know their bread and butter is the ocean and they want to do the right thing. So, so, you know, when

49:31 you're talking about an industry that's focused outdoors to a certain extent, you're going to see

49:38 changes. I definitely think you'll see more sustainable food on board. I think you're also

49:45 going to see, and it's happened already, a real focus on cultural and nature excursions and ports

49:52 of call that are also sustainable and, you know, really focused deeply, not just on history, which

50:00 has been sort of a thing for a long time, but on learning about the people and the places you're

50:04 visiting. Love it. We'll see you out there on the high seas. For sure. Let's do it. Well, thank you

50:13 so much for your time, Fran. I appreciate it. Thank you. Okay, that was our show. Don't forget

50:19 to hit like and subscribe on your way out. And I'll include a link to the podcast below.

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