Graham Bean joins Mark Atkinson from Rome to discuss Italy v Scotland in the Six Nations.
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00:00 Hello and welcome to this episode of the Scotsman Rugby Show. My name is Mark Atkinson, Sports
00:07 Editor for the Scotsman and I'm joined by Graeme Bean who is in Rome ahead of Italy's
00:13 match against Scotland, Round 4 of the Six Nations. Graeme, there's some light streaming
00:18 through your hotel window there, it must be a very pleasant morning in Rome.
00:21 Yeah, it's nice and bright and sunny. Yeah, it's really nice here actually. The forecast
00:28 for the weekend is not so good, I think it's going to rain on Saturday unfortunately but
00:32 at the moment we're enjoying the sunshine. It's a lot warmer than at home.
00:37 Yes, I can quite imagine. This game is a big one this weekend for a variety of reasons.
00:45 Italy playing well, Scotland playing well, expectation on both teams, a sell-out crowd.
00:53 Players look forward to it. Let's start with the team news first. Scotland named theirs
00:56 yesterday and fair to say there was one big surprise in that first 15 that he named, Gregor
01:02 Townsend?
01:03 Definitely, yeah. I don't think anybody was expecting the change at scrum half that Gregor
01:07 Townsend has made. Bringing in George Horn for Ben White. Horn's been on the bench for
01:15 the first three games but White's played well. Townsend's reasoning was that he needs a break.
01:24 I think he thinks he's just played a lot of rugby, maybe too much rugby. I think he's
01:30 only missed one week since October. This is because as he's moving to France he's had
01:34 to play for his club too long during the off weeks of the Six Nations. So it's been non-stop
01:41 for him. I think the logic is he needs a week to recharge, is the phrase he used. I think
01:51 he'll come back in a contention for the final match against Ireland on Saturday.
01:57 It's not like we're replacing Ben White with a diminished scrum half. Scotland are very
02:03 well stocked in that position. A lot of people won't be fully aware of George Horn's capabilities
02:09 as he's not started that many games for Scotland. But he's very proficient. Talk us through
02:14 what Scotland can expect from Horn.
02:16 You're right, he's not started many. I think this is only his fourth start for Scotland
02:20 and the last one came as far back as the World Cup in 2019 when he played against Russia.
02:25 He scored a hat-trick that day which is a good old win. He doesn't start many games
02:32 for Scotland but he does start regularly for Glasgow over the last couple of seasons. He's
02:36 really flourished under Franco Smith at Glasgow. He was their player of the year last year.
02:42 He's looked really good.
02:44 Townshend spoke about his kicking yesterday and how it's improved a lot in these last
02:50 couple of years. His place kicking is absolutely excellent but his general all-round kicking
02:55 game is good. We know he's very quick, dynamic. He's a feisty player. He really pips up the
03:04 Scotland attack. When he comes on he's done that. The other thing that Gregor Townshend
03:08 spoke about yesterday is his game management which he feels has improved a lot. Again,
03:14 the last couple of years probably with the more starts he's had at Glasgow. He's been
03:21 around the Scotland squad for a long time. He's just not had that many opportunities
03:24 to start games but he gets a chance on Saturday. We've got Alec Price on the bench as well,
03:29 another very experienced scrub half who I would imagine could come on for the last 20
03:35 minutes or so. Another good game manager.
03:37 Excellent, excellent. As you say, we're in a good position at nine. Two other changes.
03:44 One was enforced. We know that Sione Ciupolato could not play due to a knee injury. Cam Redpath
03:49 has come in. No surprise there at all, is there?
03:52 No. Sione is a big loss. He's one of Scotland's big players really. He's been excellent for
04:00 Scotland over the last couple of seasons. But Cam Redpath is a very talented player.
04:04 We saw that when he came on against England at the start of the second half to replace
04:08 Sione and he was heavily involved in that third try, the great break that he had from
04:14 his own half. So he's a player that Townshend really likes. He's been in good form with
04:19 Bath. He plays alongside Finn Russell at Bath so they have a good connection there. He's
04:24 an exciting player. It's a very good replacement to have for Scotland.
04:30 Absolutely. And the final one, again, the back row, where it seems to change every week.
04:35 Yes, it's a bit more revolving door. This number six jersey for Scotland. It's Andy
04:41 Christie this week, the fourth player to wear six in the four games we've had this season.
04:50 It's his first start for Scotland. He played really well for Saracen all season. Moore
04:56 is the number seven, but versatile enough to play across the back row. So it's a big
05:01 opportunity for him. Jamie Ritchie drops out of the 15 but is on the bench. And interestingly,
05:08 Matt Feguson is on the bench as well. So there's two back rows on the bench. Townshend has
05:14 gone for a 6-2 forwards-backs split. So there's plenty of cover there.
05:18 Good, good. It's going to be a busy weekend in Rome. It's already started. I believe
05:24 last night we had a Europa League match or a Europa Conference League match between Roma
05:30 and Brighton. And then you've got the Scotland fans there. But I believe that's been hogging
05:35 the limelight so far, the football game we saw last night.
05:39 Yes, I think it was a big game. Roma absolutely hammered Brighton 4-0 and it was dominating
05:47 the papers this morning. Corriere del Sport and Gazzetta del Sport got the fantastic four.
05:56 There's around 4,000 Brighton fans in Rome last night. I think it was a bit of trouble
06:02 as well, unfortunately. A Brighton fan was stabbed before the game, but it seems to be
06:08 OK. But I think it was around 4,000 Brighton fans, but there was about 15,000 Scotland
06:15 fans. As the Brighton fans leave town, the Scots are arriving and it's going to be another
06:21 sell-out. The Stadio Olimpico sold 69,000 tickets, which is incredible for this game
06:27 on Saturday. The first sell-out Italy have had since 2016. So there's a huge sense of
06:33 anticipation for both sets of supporters. Italy are so unlucky in that previous match
06:38 against France to only get a draw over in Lille. So I think there's a sense in Italian
06:45 rugby that they've not really got what they deserve so far out of this tournament. They
06:49 were unlucky against England in the first game and really should have beaten France
06:53 in the third game. So I think they always see Scotland as a winnable match, even though
07:00 they've not beaten Scotland since 2015. But they're the team that have had most success
07:04 against in the Six Nations historically.
07:06 Indeed, but while Italy are progressing and they have now some very, very good players,
07:15 we must remember that Scotland are progressing nicely too. I believe our columnist, Fraser
07:19 Brown, quite bullishly tipped Scotland to win by a decent margin in this game. If Scotland
07:25 play to their best here, Graeme, they should be too good for Italy.
07:28 They should be, yeah. They should be. Italy have got a new coach and both Townsend and
07:36 Pete Horne, the Scotland assistant coach, both said, Gonzalo Caseta, he's more pragmatic.
07:43 Italy may be a bit less likely to run the ball out of their own half, their own 22.
07:51 A bit more stable, perhaps, a bit harder to break down. So we'll see. Scotland should
07:57 have enough in that back line to take them on. But we'll see what happens on Saturday.
08:04 My computer went awry there. Apologies.
08:09 As long as Scotland don't drop the ball, we're fine, Graeme.
08:13 Just finally, it's a busy weekend as always, Six Nations. We've got a real cracker as well
08:18 later on on Saturday when England take on Ireland. I know Gregor Townsend was asked
08:25 earlier in the week if he'd be quietly supporting England to try and help Scotland's title chances.
08:33 Do we have any hope of England spraying a surprise against this all-conquering Irish
08:38 team?
08:39 Well, I don't think so really, but we'll see. Gregor Townsend was funny. He actually asked,
08:45 'Would you be cheating on England this weekend?' and he paused for a moment and said, 'No,
08:50 I'll be analysing Ireland', which was a very diplomatic answer because obviously Scotland
08:55 play Ireland in their final match. I think it would be a huge upset if England were to
09:00 beat Ireland, but they are at home, so we shall see. You feel England, there must be
09:07 more to come from England. They've not really unleashed themselves properly in this championship
09:14 so far, but Ireland just look too strong, don't they?
09:18 They do. There's also a fascinating game on Sunday in Cardiff between the two teams that
09:22 are probably in slight crisis mode, Wales and France. The French were so fortunate to
09:30 avoid defeat against Italy, they were fortunate in some respects to beat Scotland at Murrayfield.
09:38 Where would you see that one going?
09:39 I don't know, it's a difficult one. France haven't got going yet, have they? They were
09:46 poor against Ireland in the first game and then they were lucky to beat Scotland. That
09:51 will be a big regret for Scotland, not winning that game. But they're such a talented team,
09:57 I think they will win against Wales on Sunday. Wales are still in a bit of transition and
10:06 I don't think they've got enough to beat France, to be honest.
10:11 Tell us what the rest of the day has in store for you, I believe you're off to the Olympico,
10:14 is that right?
10:15 Yes. I'm going to head down to the Stadio Olympico now and Rory Darge is due to speak
10:22 to the press this afternoon, Scotland co-captain. So that should be good. It's a big game for
10:31 Darge, he's done very well so far in the Championship and really cemented his place in the team
10:37 now.
10:38 Brilliant. Well, we won't keep you here long, Graeme. Thank you very much for joining us
10:41 from Rome. Stay tuned to Scotland.com and across the printed product as well in Scotland
10:47 on Sunday we'll have the best coverage from Italy against Scotland. From myself and Graeme,
10:52 it's goodbye for now.
10:54 Thank you.