Reaction as Sunderland lose sixth game on bounce against Southampton
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00:00 [Music]
00:24 Hello, welcome to the RAW podcast brought to you by the Sunderland Echo. James Copley joined by Joe Nicholson here today.
00:31 Fresh from Sunderland's sixth straight loss in the championship, not a sentence I wanted to be saying against Southampton on Saturday.
00:40 Joe, you were at St Mary's, a very tough afternoon for Sunderland, obviously going 2-0 down, not playing very well.
00:47 Then there was a very brief resurgence, which I guess showed what this young team can do, but then it sort of epitomised where the squad is at the moment, isn't it?
00:56 There is talent there, but they're missing a lot. Soon after that, the two goals came for Southampton.
01:02 Sunderland ended up losing the game 4-2, six losses on the bounce, as I mentioned earlier.
01:06 It's a bit of a tough spot at the moment, isn't it, for such a young group?
01:09 It is, yes. Another difficult afternoon against a side that obviously came down from the Premier League last season,
01:16 have a lot more resources than what Sunderland do.
01:19 But also, these are the sort of sides that Sunderland are going to be competing with to get in the playoffs and to get promoted,
01:26 which is where the club wants to be. I thought in the first half, to be honest, Sunderland were quite fortunate to only be 2-0 down.
01:33 It looked like Southampton were in second or third gear and had more gears to go into.
01:40 Sunderland managed to get in at half-time, only 2-0 down. They do deserve credit for coming back in that second half.
01:46 Two good goals, one from Mundell, which took a deflection and an excellent strike from Bellingham.
01:51 But then the way that they let it slip again at the end, they looked really stretched at the back when Dan Ballard went off injured,
01:57 which I'm sure we'll come on to in the podcast. The goals that they gave away to then lose the game 4-2,
02:03 they'll be really disappointed with those, having worked so hard to get back on level terms and look like they may get something from the game
02:09 to give away two goals like that, where Joe Rothwell had loads of space to convert those chances, will be really disappointing.
02:17 Mike Dodds, as you can expect, was down after the game, tried to be positive, tried to pick the team up and to give hope for the fans.
02:26 But it's six defeats in a row now. It's a really tough period.
02:30 It is, and I'm seeing a lot of criticism of individual players. I think some of it is fair enough.
02:36 Obviously, you look at what's on the pitch, you look at the mistakes, particularly Joe Bellingham for the first goal where he heads it across the six-yard box.
02:45 That is poor. Hopefully, his awareness gets better as time goes on.
02:50 But I'm really reluctant, Joe, to give these players on the pitch too much stick.
02:55 I think the average age of Sunderland's team, the start of XI, was 21 years old.
03:01 Now, that is the youngest start of XI average age in the Championship since the website TransferMarkt started producing those records 20 years ago,
03:11 which gives you a little flavour. So I'm really reluctant to hammer these players too much.
03:15 Yes, they've lost six on the bounce, but I do think there's mitigation, Joe, in terms of them being, let's face it, let down in consecutive transfer windows.
03:24 There's an interim head coach there that is doing his best, but is inexperienced as they are.
03:29 There's injuries. There's a lot going on at Sunderland at the moment.
03:33 A lot of it, you could argue, self-inflicted really from above.
03:38 But I think it is positive that Sunderland do have so many young, bright players,
03:43 but you do run the risk of seriously denting their confidence long term, just given the limitations in the squad and the parameters in which they're having to play under.
03:54 It's tough.
03:56 Yes, and you mentioned that start on TransferMarkt. So Sunderland's team against Southampton was the lowest average age this season for a starting XI,
04:03 which was 21 years old. And the previous youngest team this season was the team that played for Sunderland against Leicester on Tuesday night,
04:11 just a few days earlier. So it just shows. And I think maybe the fourth lowest was the team that started against Swansea, which Mike Dodds took charge of.
04:18 So you take Luka Nain out, who's only 29, isn't he? He's the oldest player in the Sunderland team.
04:24 And the average age just dropped even lower. And Dan Ballard was the oldest Sunderland player that started against Southampton.
04:32 He even went off with a hamstring injury. He's only 24. And remember, he's only been at the club a year and a half, and he was injured for a lot of last season.
04:41 So you're relying on him to be kind of your senior player. And he's only got limited experience in the first team.
04:46 Already he's seen as one of the senior players and a very important player.
04:50 And it just shows like, you can look at it two ways because Sunderland have a very young group of players that in theory are going to get better,
04:57 in theory are going to increase in value. But also you do need that mix and that blend of youth and experience.
05:04 And last season, they seemed to have that kind of right balance of youthfulness.
05:08 But then they had the people like Danny Bart, like Lyndon Gooch, who may not have been first team regulars this season,
05:13 but in the dressing room, they're going to be very influential players, very influential figures.
05:18 Alex Pritchard's another one. And it seems like they've just kind of gone too far one way right now.
05:23 And they've packed the team with young, talented players. But there needs to be that balance there.
05:29 And it just seems like Sunderland haven't quite got that at the minute. You look at the options on the bench.
05:34 Obviously, that is because of some injuries to key players as well.
05:37 But two under-21s players on the bench again on Saturday, Tom Lavery and Harrison Jones, who haven't played for the first team.
05:45 And you compare that to Southampton's bench when they're bringing on Khalidine Suleimane,
05:51 who I think was a £25 million signing in the Premier League. Joe Rothwell comes on,
05:56 is a top end Championship player, at least maybe a Premier League player, and he scores two goals.
06:01 Sekou Mara is another one that came off the bench. These are players that are just on the bench.
06:04 And it was similar when Sunderland played Leicester a few weeks ago or a few days ago even.
06:09 So, yeah, it kind of shows the difference between the two squads and the approach that Sunderland have taken.
06:15 They've come and got some very good deals out of that. But right now, it just seems like they've tipped the balance too far one way.
06:21 And they've got a team of very young and inexperienced players.
06:24 So when you go through a difficult moment like this, it's very difficult for them to lift the squad and get them out of it.
06:30 I guess it's sort of twofold in a way, isn't it? Because there's no doubt that, say, for instance, if Danny Bart was still at the club,
06:38 he would have likely improved Sunderland's chances of winning that game.
06:42 But then Sunderland have invested in Jenson Seed. Now, I happen to think that Jenson Seed will be a good centre-back for Sunderland one day.
06:49 But it's that thing, isn't it, where you can be caught in between wanting to develop young players,
06:56 but also, as you mentioned, you can go too far with it and you can have a lack of experience in your squad.
07:01 And I think when you start to lose games, especially six on the bounce, that really does start to show.
07:08 I mean, Alex Pritchard, another one, I know his contract situation was handled badly and it was wrong on both sides.
07:13 But I think they're really feeling his absence at the moment as well.
07:18 A player like Lyndon Gooch, now you can argue whether Lyndon Gooch would have started this season for Sunderland.
07:25 Probably not. Would he have even started against Southampton?
07:28 I'm not sure, but just having him in and around that group.
07:31 Now, you can't keep a player in and around the group just because they're good with the group and they understand the club.
07:35 But I do think Lyndon Gooch could have contributed for Sunderland at some point this season.
07:39 I do understand and accept the model. And I think both of us, Joe, would praise some of the work that's been done with the model.
07:46 And we've done that several times on this podcast.
07:49 But it just seemed to me where the model needed tweaking in the summer of January, even the January before last summer when they ended up with Joe Gellhart and players of that ilk.
08:01 It needed tweaks and improvements and a little bit of investment here and there and a little bit of added experience.
08:08 And it made the striker situation really sort with experience and a proven goalscorer.
08:12 And it actually feels like they went the other way, Joe, doesn't it? Less experience, not buying a proven goalscorer.
08:20 And it's strange, isn't it? And I go back to my earlier point that it just feels a shame that a lot of these young talented players are getting a bit of a hammering now because they've lost six games on the spin.
08:32 When in reality, I think, again, it's tough for them. Where do you stand on that debate?
08:39 I think, as you say, that the model that Sondland have taken at times has been commendable and some of the players that they've brought in have been successes and have been great finds and look like they're going to be good players for the club for the long term.
08:52 But as you said before, you need that mixture of the balance in the squad between players that have been there and done it and the youth.
09:00 And it just feels like right now, as we said, Sondland have gone too far one way.
09:05 And who are the voices in the dressing room, I would say? I think now Mowbray and Beale have both said the team needs a bit more experience.
09:13 They've kind of questioned the model and you just think back to last season, you'd have had people like Danny Barr, Lyndon Gooch, probably Pritchard would be the ones that would be stepping up in the dressing room.
09:23 Now, who out of the younger Sondland players are the ones that are going to step up and be vocal?
09:29 Particularly, Joe, just on that point that you make, those players will have known at some point what it's like to lose 3, 4, 5, 6 on the spin.
09:37 A lot of these players probably don't and have never been through this before.
09:41 And that can actually be hugely damaging when you don't have somebody saying, look, I've been through this.
09:48 It's going to be OK. We'll do this. We'll do that.
09:51 You sort of feel like you're going into things a bit blind, don't you, when you don't have that guidance?
09:56 You need a mixture of voices as well. I think Mowbray said this before when he was here.
10:01 The players would just get sick of just hearing his voice in the dressing room.
10:05 You need other people to chip in.
10:08 Mike Dodds said after the game on Saturday there was a dispute in the dressing room at half-time.
10:12 I'm not quite sure who that was between and what that was about. I think it was about the man-marking system.
10:16 Someone had lost their man and there was a bit of a dispute.
10:20 That's probably a better sign that the players are questioning things.
10:26 But you just feel like there was maybe a lack of senior players there to step up.
10:30 In the dressing room particularly at this time, you take out Luka Neyen, who did travel with the team to Southampton.
10:36 I don't know how much he would have been in and around the dressing room, obviously, with not playing.
10:40 And then you lose Ballard, who even though he's still young, he's kind of the leader of that back line.
10:46 He went off. It did look very disjointed and it's going to be a big concern if he's out for the QPR game with 09 still suspended.
10:54 That's going to be an issue that Dodds will have to address.
10:58 We'll come on to a few specifics and a few individual performances in a little minute and a few little debates.
11:04 But I think, Joe, I want to touch upon this idea of expectation.
11:08 Obviously, Sunderland fans aren't happy because they've lost six on the bounce.
11:12 And rightly so, Sunderland should never lose six on the bounce, you would think, in any league, never mind.
11:18 In the Championship, where they've historically been so decent, I think it's the first time since 2006 that Sunderland have actually lost six on the bounce.
11:24 Which when you consider some of the seasons in between that, the relegation season, the Premier League, the relegation season, the Championship, some of the seasons in League One, it's pretty good going really.
11:35 I think it's a shame because Sunderland had and have a pretty good base in terms of the talent.
11:43 And again, in terms of the squad composition, the squad building and what, well, people can debate about Tony Mowbray, but what was sort of brewing under Tony Mowbray, particularly towards the back end of last season, was really, really, really good, really positive.
11:55 And it just needed a few little things. And I think that's where the sort of anger that I'm seeing is coming from, Joe.
12:02 This expectation hasn't just appeared out of nowhere.
12:08 Kristen Speakman's on record as saying that Sunderland weren't satisfied with the playoffs and sacking Tony Mowbray, reading his words afterwards and the noises coming out of the club, it was a decision taken to progress the club.
12:21 And that just hasn't happened. So, I can completely understand the frustration from Sunderland fans at the moment.
12:27 I think firstly, like last season, the team did overachieve. I think that was pretty clear getting up to sixth. Mike Dodds said this in his pre-match press conference last week, that if they'd have lost that game against Preston on the last day of the season, they could have finished 12th.
12:41 Exactly. And suddenly, you've got a completely different kind of picture and how you view it. And then maybe this season, ninth or 10th is seen as progress.
12:50 If they'd finished 17th last season, then maybe 12th place looks like progress this season. But the fact that they did finish sixth, then means that everyone kind of expects a playoff place again.
13:01 And in terms of expectation, I don't think that's misplaced kind of thinking that Sunderland can finish in the playoffs.
13:07 Because if you look at all the way back to September, when Sunderland played Southampton in the reverse fixture back at the Stadium of Light, they blew them away 5-0.
13:16 And obviously the teams have gone in very different directions then, but that showed the potential that Sunderland had.
13:22 They were dynamic, they were full of energy, they looked a threat every time they went forward. And that was the day after the end of the summer transfer window.
13:30 So Sunderland just brought in Roos in, they just brought in Berstow. And you look to that squad and thought, if you can put a few strikers at the top end of the pitch, or just one striker, just think how good this team could get even better.
13:42 And since then, obviously the strikers have struggled, the team has clearly regressed, and the decision to sack Tony Mowbray has derailed the season quite significantly.
13:52 And it does feel like a different season since that game against Southampton at the Stadium of Light.
13:57 But it did show what Sunderland could do when their best players are available, when they're up and firing.
14:05 But we always said it at the start of the season, I think, as good as the starting XI looks, there were a few key positions where if Sunderland did pick up injuries there, you thought they could be in trouble.
14:15 I think namely probably Ballard and Dan Neal were the two players, if one of them got injured or was unavailable, the drop-off to the next player was quite significant.
14:24 And Jack Clarke is the other one, which obviously now Sunderland are dealing with him, a player that scored 15 goals this season.
14:30 You take him out of the side and it looks a lot tougher for Sunderland to score goals.
14:36 It does feel like the chickens have all come home to roost at the same time in that regard, Joe.
14:40 The injuries, we must point out, really, really aren't helping matters.
14:44 Yeah, it's been a really tough hand for Mike Dodds. And that's not to say that he's immune from criticism.
14:48 I thought, again, when his striker selection on Saturday was questionable, and that was kind of showed by the fact that he made two changes before the 60-minute mark.
14:57 But you look at what he's having to deal with and what he's coming up against.
15:00 He's lost his top scorer in Jack Clarke. Dan Ballard's been suspended. Luke O'Neill's been suspended.
15:06 Patrick Roberts is another key attacking player that's been missing.
15:10 The strikers obviously aren't firing at the minute. And any head coach, I think, would struggle with that.
15:15 And you look at the sides that Sunderland have come up against, as we mentioned before, the players that were coming off Southampton's bench and Leicester's bench.
15:23 The fixes have been really difficult for him. So, although it is six defeats in a row, four defeats in a row for Mike Dodds,
15:30 he's kind of had very limited resources to deal with. And it has been very difficult for him in the last few weeks.
15:37 It's funny, isn't it, Joe? You mentioned that Southampton game, the reverse fixture at the Stadium of Light under Tony Mowbray.
15:42 Now, I'm not saying, had this goal gone in, that he would have become an instant world-beater.
15:46 But if Hamir had scored that chance, you do wonder what sort of different trajectory his season could have had.
15:53 Obviously, strikers thrive on confidence, and that would have helped him get off to a lot better start than he has done.
16:00 But just on that striking issue, he did go with Birstow, Joe. You said that was questionable.
16:05 It's just an issue that keeps dogging Sunderland. It's going to dog Sunderland to the end of the season.
16:09 God knows how many conversations we're going to have about strikers.
16:12 God knows how many conversations we've had about strikers in the past 18 months.
16:16 It's massively frustrating for everybody involved.
16:19 It's really difficult to come here and sit on this podcast and write in our jobs
16:27 and come up with a different, unique and fresh take on this.
16:30 It's just not good enough, is it, really? The options just aren't there.
16:35 It's just clearly quite a glaring issue, isn't it? Sunderland brought in four strikers in the suburb.
16:42 Obviously, Maienda has gone out on loan to Hibernian.
16:44 But I think out of the four of them combined, they've scored three goals, two for Roosin and one for Birstow.
16:50 To be fair, I asked my dods about Birstow in the press conference before the game.
16:56 Birstow was the one striker that he hadn't selected in the games that dods had taken charge of.
17:01 That's why I asked him about it. I was saying, he's only on loan, so are we likely to see him?
17:06 How much are we likely to see him between now and the end of the season?
17:09 Dods, as you would expect, defended the player and said that he's got a good attitude.
17:13 As you would expect, I didn't really expect Birstow to start the game at Southampton, which he did.
17:18 He struggled. For me and for a lot of fans, I think Birstow and Hamir in particular have not looked up to championship level this season.
17:26 That's not to say that they won't be ready for the championship in the future.
17:29 They're both still only 20 years old, so they have got time to turn into players that can make an impact at this level.
17:36 But so far this season, they clearly haven't. With Birstow, obviously, he's only on loan from Chelsea.
17:42 With Hamir, Sunderland have invested money in him and will hope that he can develop into a player that can make an impact.
17:47 Roosin seems to be the one who's made more of an impact, but I think we've said it before that he's probably more of a wide forward than a centre forward.
17:56 He's had to play through the middle more often this season because you've had Jack Clark playing so well on the left-hand side.
18:03 You've had Roberts or Barr on the other side that have been selected ahead of him. You've now got Mundels come in as well.
18:09 You can play wide, so Roosin's had to play through the middle.
18:11 I'm surprised that he's not got more of a run of games than he has because I think he can be a handful with his energy and his work.
18:18 I think we've seen him make more of an impact than the others.
18:22 It's been surprising that the last couple of games he's dropped out the side and he came off the bench against Southampton.
18:28 I think Sunderland looked brighter with him and Oshish was the other one that came on.
18:32 I think Kahnemeh Sunderland just ticked a little bit more.
18:34 It was surprising to see that he didn't get the start after he came on against Leicester and made an impact as well.
18:40 It's very difficult, isn't it, with the strikers at the minute because clearly they're not proven at Championship level.
18:47 You just look at what Kiefer Moore's doing at Ipswich. I think he's already got six goals since moving there in January.
18:54 The one that he scored, I know that Ipswich lost the game against Cardiff, but the one where he got the ball just inside the box
19:00 and the first time put the ball in the bottom corner to open the scoring for him.
19:04 That's it, isn't it?
19:06 He's completely made a mockery out of all of us, Kiefer Moore, because I was very much of the opinion at the money quote
19:12 that it wouldn't be worth it for the age that he was. I think I was trying to cope with the fact that Sunderland hadn't signed a striker.
19:21 He's made a mockery of that completely, Kiefer Moore, by his goal scoring record since.
19:25 Just on Rooson though, Joe, it's a shame actually post-Jack Clarke's injury that Rooson just wasn't given an extended run in the team
19:32 as a wide forward or a left winger, which is clearly where he's more comfortable.
19:36 He's been in and out. I actually really feel for him, to be honest, because I don't know his family situation now,
19:41 but he's got a mother back in Ukraine. I'm not sure whether that's been resolved or not.
19:44 He doesn't speak too much English, which is probably a little bit of an issue as well.
19:48 But out of Sunderland's attacking players, I do think he looks to be one of the better ones.
19:54 Certainly makes more runs in behind, as you say, looks busy.
19:58 But yeah, as I say, God knows how many more times we'll talk about strikers.
20:03 We'll move quickly on, Joe. QPR on Saturday, it's a big game that.
20:08 At the Stadium of Lights, QPR, I haven't got the phone book to hand, but I will have a little look.
20:15 They lost against Middlesbrough on Saturday, but before that, they were on a good run.
20:20 Yeah, so QPR at the moment are 20th. So they've won three of the last five a draw,
20:26 and that loss that you mentioned to Middlesbrough, as you say, 39 points, 20th position.
20:33 As mentioned, it's one of those where you really don't want to lose this game at home in front of your fans.
20:38 You don't want to go seven on the bounce. As I say, it was the first time since 2006 that Sunderland have lost six.
20:44 I'm not sure when the last time they lost seven was, but yeah, it would have been a long, long time.
20:50 And really, if QPR do win against Sunderland, it just pulls Sunderland ever, ever so closer.
20:57 That gap starts to close ever a little bit more again. Yeah, it just wouldn't be ideal, would it, Joe?
21:03 Yeah, I think as we said last week, I think Sunderland have too many points to be kind of dragged into relegation.
21:10 I say that, you can never say never, but I think there's too many teams behind them,
21:15 and I think Sunderland will be OK. But it's just the kind of mood that has kind of come over the club in the last few weeks.
21:22 As we've said, the fixtures in recent weeks have been very tough, having Norwich, Leicester, Southampton.
21:27 You've got two teams there that could get automatic promotion, then another team in Norwich that are fighting for the playoffs.
21:32 So it's been very tough. I think fans will look at the table and think QPR down in 20th at home.
21:39 Sunderland, that's again, they should be winning. Although as you mentioned there, QPR have been in good form
21:44 and have picked up under Martà Sifuentes. But it's going to be really important that Sunderland get the first goal.
21:49 I think there was even boos in the away end at Southampton after a half time,
21:54 which you could hear quite clearly from the press box. It was a long journey to go to Southampton
21:59 and the first half just wasn't a good enough performance from Sunderland, as we mentioned before.
22:04 It could have been more than 2-0 at half time. So it's going to be really important that Sunderland show against QPR
22:11 in front of their home fans that they're still fighting to get points and results.
22:18 And as you mentioned, I don't think it's the effort levels, but it's just been very difficult for the young side.
22:23 The confidence is very low right now.
22:25 But the problems continue for Mike Dodds though, Joe, because 09 is suspended, obviously picked up the two-match ban.
22:31 Dan Ballard went off with the injury. Obviously, we'll hopefully get a bit more clarity on that.
22:35 That is at midweek with the press conference, but that certainly is not ideal for a game you need to win.
22:41 Yeah, it could be a very makeshift back four, which is what it was at the end of the Southampton game,
22:46 which was Stiles at left back, Yelda and Seals at centre back and Hume at right back.
22:51 And if Ballard's unavailable, which it didn't sound good, I think he'd done something to his hamstring,
22:57 and Dodds said he didn't want to put too much on it. He didn't want to go one way or the other,
23:01 but said he was strapped up. So it didn't sound great.
23:04 And you've lost your two leaders in the back line in Ballard and 09.
23:09 It's going to be very difficult for those players.
23:12 Yelda has said that he prefers to play centre back, but he's only just joined the club recently.
23:17 He's only 20 years old. You've got Stiles coming in at left back, who hadn't played a lot of football
23:21 before he came to Sunderland because he had this appendicitis and this surgery.
23:25 So, yeah, it's going to be very difficult.
23:28 And they'll have to work on that on the training pitch in the week leading up to the game.
23:31 Thankfully, they have got the full week leading up to that game.
23:34 But if they don't get a result against QPR, going into the international break
23:38 could be a very long international break for everyone, isn't it?
23:41 No, absolutely. And do you think, Joel, there could be a few other changes?
23:46 Obviously, it could be a different looking back four to the one that started the game against Southampton.
23:51 I'm thinking Ekwa might come in. Adil Ashush might start as well.
23:55 He might give a start to Roosan. And I keep saying it on this podcast,
23:58 but at some point they'll have to play Timothy Pembele as well.
24:01 I think Ekwa will come back in midfield.
24:05 Dodgers obviously felt they needed to change that on Saturday.
24:09 I think we will see Roosan. I think we will see Ashish.
24:11 I think Ashish has now made an impact. Two times he's come off the bench now.
24:16 Suddenly he'll look better going forward. And he's someone that's,
24:19 he looks to play those forward passes and has got the team up the pitch
24:23 and has made them look like more of an attacking threat.
24:25 And as I mentioned before, Roosan, although he may, sometimes it may not work out for him,
24:30 he's kind of busy, puts pressure on people.
24:33 He runs into, you know, makes runs in behind the opposition defence.
24:36 So I think those two have a good chance of coming back in. Ekwa, as you said,
24:41 we'll see what the situation is with Ballard.
24:43 Another option for Pembele to come in, who I've seen a few times for the 21s
24:47 and thought he looks kind of good going forward.
24:49 Maybe not been tested as much defensively.
24:52 Perhaps try Hume could move over to left back or as a centre back.
24:57 Could they go to a back three and Hume move in as the right sided centre back?
25:01 We saw a few times last season, then Pembele comes in as a wing back.
25:05 Potentially, Dodds said at the start of his tenure, didn't he,
25:09 that he's not afraid to make bold decisions.
25:12 Although the back three was not a success at all against Swansea,
25:15 was it, a few weeks back where Sunderland looked all over the place.
25:18 No one really knew who was picking up who and Sunderland had to change that
25:22 at half time and go back to a back four.
25:24 So it'd be interesting if Dodds went for that again.
25:27 But as we said, he said he's not afraid to make bold decisions
25:29 and will make the decision that he feels is right for the team.
25:33 I'd like to see Pembele given a shot between now and the end of the season
25:37 just to see what he's about because Sunderland obviously brought him in from PSG
25:40 in the summer, he had that injury, but he's available now.
25:43 I'm sure fans will want to see what he's all about and get a glimpse of him.
25:48 Indeed. Well, you can head over to the Sunderland Echo website
25:51 for all of the latest heading into the QPR game.
25:53 We're also on YouTube and all social media channels.
25:56 Joe, will there be a preview pod before QPR?
25:59 Yeah, we'll try and get a preview pod before QPR.
26:02 I hope to find out a bit more about them.
26:04 Champion. Fantastic. Fantastic.
26:07 Right. Yeah. Glowing rendition there, Joe.
26:10 Right. Brilliant. Yeah. Stick with us on the Sunderland Echo website.
26:13 We'll have the pre-match press conference, all of the build-up to QPR as well,
26:16 plus the fallout. Hopefully Sunderland can arrest this winless run
26:21 and get a win at the stadium.
26:22 Thank you once again for listening to the Raw podcast.
26:26 [BLANK_AUDIO]