Euronews Correspondent Shona Murray sits down with European Council President, Charles Michel, to discuss support for war-ravaged Ukraine and the lack of consensus among EU leaders on the situation in Gaza.
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00:00 Are Europeans in grave danger if the EU doesn't step up its support for Ukraine?
00:05 And has the EU been weakened over its lack of unity on the situation in Gaza?
00:09 President of the European Council Charles Michel is my guest on the Global Conversation on Euronews.
00:26 Thank you very much for joining us this evening, we really appreciate your time.
00:30 46% of voters saying that they want less influence by the European institutions,
00:37 the European Council, the European Commission and more power particularly going to national governments.
00:42 Why do you think that is? Do you think that represents some sort of failure by the institutions, a lack of perception?
00:48 No, I'm not surprised but on the other hand I know that for many people across the EU,
00:53 they know for instance if we face COVID-19 that the answer, the solution will be at the European Union's level.
00:59 If there is an energy crisis, if there is inflation, if there is a challenge related to climate change,
01:04 we need more European cooperation and coordination and I think it is a mistake to try to oppose the national level
01:11 and the European Union's level. If we have strong member states, if we have a strong European Union's project
01:17 then it will be good and positive for all our citizens across the EU.
01:21 And on that issue of delivering and peace in Europe, you said yesterday that if we don't give Ukraine enough support now
01:28 to stop Russia, that we here are next. Now we have heard this a lot over the past two years but it is something that is resurgent.
01:35 We heard for example the Spanish Defence Minister saying, she said she doesn't think that people realise the grave danger we're in right now.
01:42 Why are you saying that right now? What evidence do you have and what are you calling for?
01:47 First I feel that we must tell the truth to the people and we are facing a serious challenge with this decision made by Russia to invade Ukraine.
01:56 And it's not only a challenge for the Ukrainians, it's a challenge for all of us, all of those who believe in the fundamental principles,
02:04 the democratic principles and I am absolutely convinced that this is a serious threat.
02:09 And that's why I feel that we did and we are doing what's needed and we have immediately decided and we are united to support Ukraine
02:18 and to sanction Russia, to put pressure on Russia. But this is not enough. We need to do more, we need to act more quickly
02:27 and that's why once again we will try to make concrete steps to provide more military equipment to Ukraine,
02:33 more financial support for Ukraine and to put more pressure against Russia.
02:39 And this is needed if we believe in peace and security and prosperity, which are the promises of the founding fathers of this European project.
02:48 But you're going much beyond that, you're calling for a war economy, essentially the mobilisation of all sectors of the economies throughout Europe.
02:56 It's a fundamental shift in the structure of societies.
03:00 Yes, and you're absolutely right that I want us to do more. Why? Because if we observe the last decades,
03:07 this European project was based on the idea that you have common values and that you need to cooperate for more prosperity.
03:14 We all of us understand that you need to adapt our economic model, we need to invest much more in our defence, industrial base, to protect our stability and our security.
03:25 But why are you saying a war economy now? Is it because the situation in Ukraine, that there's a stalemate,
03:30 that there doesn't seem to be any significant gains predicted for Ukraine in the coming year?
03:37 On the one hand I think it's very good that Ukraine succeeded to resist and to push back, but it's not enough.
03:44 They succeeded to take more control in the Black Sea, this is very important, we don't talk so much about it,
03:50 but from a strategic point of view it's important, but on the other hand today it's not a secret that Russia is in a stronger position from a military point of view
04:00 in terms of ammunition and military equipment, and that's why there is this sense of urgency and that we need to provide more military equipment now,
04:09 not in two years, it should be too late in two years. It's now and that's why it's very concrete.
04:13 We support for instance this Czech initiative, I commend this decision made by the Czech authorities to propose to many other countries
04:22 to purchase together military equipment so that very quickly this equipment can be delivered to Ukraine.
04:28 Okay, I want to move on to another major issue which is the situation in the Middle East,
04:32 because obviously part of your role as President of the European Council is to build consensus on complex issues amongst EU member states,
04:40 and we're seeing quite heartbreaking scenes in Gaza at the moment as a result of Israel's response to Hamas' brutal terrorist attack against Israelis on October 7th.
04:50 But we're hearing things like starvation used as a method of war, as Joseph Borrell has said,
04:55 monumental death toll on children, the lack of basic medical supplies for amputations.
05:00 Has the EU been weakened by this? Do you feel that there may be double standards,
05:06 that there's not as much unity or sympathy for Palestinians as there is for Israeli civilians, Ukrainian civilians?
05:14 First, I'm observing that we are more and more united at the European Union's level,
05:18 but we should tell the truth, this is exactly the beginning.
05:23 Following this attack launched by Hamas, we were on the same page to condemn Hamas,
05:28 this is now a terrible, a terrible attack.
05:31 But on the other hand, it was more difficult to have a unanimous position in the European Council on the topic.
05:36 Why? Because our member states, they have their own relationship with Israel, with Palestine, their own history.
05:44 But what's very important is the fact that we are making huge progress,
05:48 and I'm very confident that in a few days we will get united with a very strong message based on two or three fundamental pillars.
05:55 First one, humanitarian access, no double standards, each civilian life matters,
06:01 it must be extremely clear and each communication from the EU should be crystal clear on that topic,
06:07 if we want to be credible at the international level, point one.
06:10 Point two, we must do everything to avoid any further regional escalation, Lebanon, Red Sea,
06:18 it is extremely important to do everything from a political and diplomatic point of view.
06:23 And point three, we are fully in support of the two-state solution,
06:28 and on this topic, 27 member states are agreeing without any ambitry on this important question.
06:35 But do you feel that there has been double standards?
06:38 I feel, I am very sincere with you, on COVID-19 we did very well,
06:43 on climate change we are setting the tone, we are setting standards and others that are following us.
06:48 The war against Ukraine, we succeeded to get united and to have a strong position.
06:53 On the Middle East, I accept the criticism following which it took more time to be united,
06:59 because the starting point is so that there are differences between the member states,
07:03 but in a few weeks, in a few months, we are in a position to make significant progress,
07:08 and the trend, this is the unity, the direction is the unity, and this is true.
07:14 When there were some ambiguous communications from the EU leadership,
07:19 it has been used and it is used by Putin, by the Kremlin, to fuel this idea of so-called Western hypocrisy.
07:28 And I engage a lot with African countries in the Global South, like Africa, Latin America, Central Asia,
07:36 and I can feel that those countries are expecting us on the EU side to be very clear,
07:42 to promote always and everywhere the international law and the rules-based order, including in the Middle East.
07:49 Okay, well, President of the European Council, Charles Rochelle,
07:52 thank you very much for joining us and being our first interviewee on the Global Conversation this evening.
07:57 Thank you.
07:58 (audience applauding)