Taking Care of Aging Parents? Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

Discussion on caller's past relationships, childhood impact on adult relationships, caregiving, and self-prioritization. Stress on honest communication and personal goal alignment for healthy connections and growth.  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  Get my new series on the Truth About the French Revolution, access to the audiobook for my new book 'Peaceful Parenting,' StefBOT-AI, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00 Well, yeah, nice to nice to meet you. I'm glad we had a chance to chat today had a week cancellation

00:00:04 So yeah, if you want to you can just read the message or you can just tell me in your words

00:00:10 What's uh how I can best help? Okay. Um, i'll i'll try to just summarize it. Um,

00:00:15 But basically I

00:00:18 I kind of I guess conflicting, um decision and sorry, sorry if i'm

00:00:26 Kind of odd. I you know, I just I just worked out so i'm still kind of jittery cooling down

00:00:30 But uh, and you you are you using a headset just out of curiosity?

00:00:34 Yeah, it's my apple airpod

00:00:36 Okay. All right. Yeah, go ahead

00:00:39 Is that okay?

00:00:41 I the audio is not ideal, but it's fine. It's fine. It's fine. So go ahead

00:00:45 Okay

00:00:47 Maybe if I put the second one in it might help. Um

00:00:49 so

00:00:52 My I guess predicament you could say is I you know, i'm a single child

00:00:56 I'm 30 year old male single child and I recently moved i'm from the midwest region of the u.s

00:01:02 When I moved out west for a job

00:01:04 Opportunity I was out there for a couple years

00:01:08 And it didn't work out for a couple of reasons and one of the main reasons that I I had was

00:01:14 Being as far from family. It was very difficult

00:01:18 If something were to come up, you know, it's a three-day drive. It's a thousand dollar ticket, you know on any given day

00:01:22 um plane ticket

00:01:25 it so I moved back home to be closer to family be closer to that support system and um, but

00:01:31 I guess being here. I don't

00:01:33 I don't really have any pull to the area. I don't have any interest in being here besides family

00:01:40 so like I

00:01:42 I guess I there are times that I feel

00:01:44 guilty for not wanting to

00:01:47 Be here to support my family, but then there are other times where I feel like that's my responsibility

00:01:51 um, and I guess you know

00:01:54 Having thought about this the last couple days

00:01:57 um, i'm, I just I want to make sure that then it's me making the decision and not

00:02:03 Like my parents or something. I think my parents would like

00:02:07 Okay, i'm sort of trying to to I need to sort of view of your life as a whole

00:02:12 If you can tell me a little bit about

00:02:15 Dating sure and and what's going on with you in terms of relationships? Like what's the competing stuff with regards to your

00:02:21 Your parents or your mother in particular, right? Is it just your mother?

00:02:25 Yeah, well, so my my parents divorced when I was young, you know

00:02:31 One or two or something so I I grew up with them being apart

00:02:34 uh, but I

00:02:36 Still saw my father

00:02:38 Most weekends every other weekend, you know, I still had a relationship with him

00:02:42 You know you get older you get busy you see them less

00:02:44 um

00:02:47 And I lived with my mother who also

00:02:50 Had you know, she had a boyfriend who's been very

00:02:54 Consistent, you know, they've been together since I was in

00:02:57 Kindergarten or so so so he's basically a stepfather

00:03:02 So then

00:03:08 I guess coming coming up from that I had you know

00:03:11 Multiple families you could say in a sense because my my father remarried a couple times and went through a couple girlfriends

00:03:18 um

00:03:20 And I would you know go over there to visit, uh, but I stayed consistently in the same house with my mother

00:03:24 And

00:03:28 I've had a couple of girlfriends throughout my love life, you know first girlfriend was

00:03:33 You know first real girlfriend real dating was high school like junior year high school. Um, we were together a couple years

00:03:39 nothing

00:03:41 Serious, I mean, you know, we that that was my first uh sexual encounter. Um,

00:03:47 so that was serious, but it wasn't it wasn't much past that, you know, we had a

00:03:51 Difference in opinion and and how to you know, I wanted to go to college

00:03:56 She didn't want to she didn't want to she wanted to like move in together and all that. Um, I had

00:04:02 a

00:04:04 Couple of other kind of short-term girlfriends one was kind of like I guess you could say a summer fling

00:04:09 um, and that was just before going to college

00:04:12 And I you know, my reasoning was I wanted a clean slate, you know, I wanted to start fresh, you know

00:04:18 Nothing tying me down and I I guess that's been a recurring

00:04:21 Uh theme or issue for me is not never wanting to feel tied down. Um

00:04:28 and I guess that relates to

00:04:32 Buying a house here. I'm afraid to be tied down to something. I don't want

00:04:35 um

00:04:38 So past that

00:04:40 uh

00:04:42 My next kind of major

00:04:44 girlfriend relationship was was in college and um

00:04:48 That was about three years

00:04:51 we

00:04:54 We were pretty serious, um, but it it was it was definitely an unhealthy relationship

00:05:00 Um

00:05:02 We started out okay, but it it was it was just a lot of

00:05:10 It was a lot and I know that's I know that's very vague and you hate that. Um

00:05:16 So like it started out, you know, we we went to like a polyamorous relationship which

00:05:24 I was you know, that wasn't my idea

00:05:27 But you know, it's college like okay. I'll give it a try

00:05:30 You know, obviously that didn't work

00:05:32 Uh, and we sorry that went back something that she wanted

00:05:35 Yeah, so she brought it up. Um

00:05:38 We we talked about it and she said that she wanted to try it when we met

00:05:41 I think she was a year younger than me. Um

00:05:44 She was a freshman when we met

00:05:47 and

00:05:48 She brought it up that she wanted to try it, you know, it's first year kind of you know

00:05:52 kind of the same reasoning I gave

00:05:54 um the girlfriend before that, you know

00:05:59 Nothing to be tied down. So I said, okay, you know, we'll try it. Sorry the same reasoning you gave so

00:06:03 Was it that you you wanted a polyamorous relationship, but the previous if it's the same reasoning

00:06:09 I just want to make sure I understand the history

00:06:11 No, I

00:06:13 Just that

00:06:14 I I had told the previous girl

00:06:16 I had a relationship with that. I

00:06:19 wanted a fresh

00:06:21 Start or I didn't want I wanted new experiences

00:06:24 So I guess oh, so you broke up with the previous girlfriend saying that you wanted new experiences and then you meet

00:06:30 The new girlfriend who wants polyamory, is that right?

00:06:34 Yes. Okay. Got it. Got it. I'm not yeah, I just want to make sure I understand the sequence. Go ahead

00:06:38 Sure, sure

00:06:40 um

00:06:42 so

00:06:43 and that was you know, that was

00:06:45 Maybe a month or so in you know, we we had a

00:06:47 Relationship together before that and then we did that for

00:06:52 Maybe a year the poly thing for a year had a relationship with each other before that. I don't know before you went poly

00:06:58 Yes, yes, like we were we were monogamous for about a month or so before that. Okay

00:07:04 That's not exactly the olympics of monogamy, but no no not at all

00:07:09 Okay, so you were monogamous for a month and then she brings up that she wants to go poly, right?

00:07:14 Yes, and you say okay, right?

00:07:18 I say okay. Yeah, and how so how does that work in sort of practical terms like you can both then just go

00:07:24 And sleep with other people

00:07:26 Yeah, so the idea is um

00:07:30 That I guess there's multiple structures, but the idea is that there's a main

00:07:36 a main relationship and then they

00:07:40 Consensually can see other people so long as there's the that main maintenance of the main relationship

00:07:48 At least that's how it was. That's how I interpreted it. You know when I looked into it when it was explained to me

00:07:52 Well, this is what your girlfriend said, right? Like you're my primary boyfriend, but I want to have sex with other other men

00:07:58 Right, right. Um

00:08:01 and um

00:08:04 So it didn't I

00:08:07 You know, I I'm thinking, you know, i'm not necessarily a ladies man or a player or anything like that

00:08:12 But you know you have that thought like okay. Well, maybe this will be interesting or fun

00:08:16 but that never really happened I

00:08:18 Never it just never really felt right to me. And then of course

00:08:22 she had

00:08:25 A couple of encounters with people. I don't know how to term it. Um, and but it ended up right

00:08:33 Yeah, well no really it was um, excuse me, i'm sorry, um

00:08:39 There there was one guy that she she

00:08:44 Got into like another relationship with that. She was having sex with

00:08:47 Uh, the other times were like so dude, dude women. I don't know what you're talking about

00:08:52 Sorry, you keep rushing all over the place and i'm i'm just dragged along here

00:08:57 Okay, so you're supposed to be the primary boyfriend and now you're telling me she got into a relationship with another guy

00:09:02 Right. Well, isn't that breaking the polyamory thing?

00:09:06 right

00:09:08 Okay, so you gotta help me here man

00:09:10 I don't know what you're talking about. I think you keep rushing along like I know what the hell you're talking about

00:09:14 I'm, sorry. No, it's like okay. So just slow down and tell me what the hell happened

00:09:19 So she said you'll be my primary boyfriend. I'm just gonna fuck other guys

00:09:22 And then she ended up getting what bonded and into a relationship with some other guy

00:09:27 Yeah, essentially

00:09:31 Wait, so what do you mean by now? Essentially? It's another word. I don't know if that's not accurate. Tell me how that's not accurate

00:09:38 No, I that's that's honestly that's accurate. She okay. So this is essentially that's just what it was, right?

00:09:44 Correct. Okay. Got it

00:09:46 so yeah, she did she tell you um, i'm

00:09:50 You're now the side piece and he's the main attraction or or how did that work?

00:09:55 Uh

00:09:58 It was there was a I I brought it up many times

00:10:01 um

00:10:03 It was kind of like I was the way to bring up that

00:10:06 That that very that very question like am I the main piece and still um, but how did you know?

00:10:12 That she was in a relationship with another guy

00:10:15 She told me

00:10:18 She said i'm now somebody else's girlfriend. Oh, how did she how did she put it?

00:10:21 Yeah, well, like i'm seeing this other guy, you know, i'm with this other guy where you know, it was never explicit like

00:10:29 i'm

00:10:31 I'm, I don't want to swear i'm having sex with this guy, but you know it it was very you know

00:10:36 We were very sorry. What what do you mean? It wasn't explicit. I mean you're in a polyamorous relationship and she's with another guy

00:10:42 I mean, what's what's I I don't want to be explicit on on on your on this call

00:10:47 What do you mean? I don't want to I don't want to drop f-bombs and

00:10:50 Oh, I don't care about that. Oh, I mean, okay

00:10:53 It's the least offensive thing to me of anything that you're saying. So go ahead

00:10:59 Um, you know, it's not like we were talking and she was she was like, yes, i'm fucking him

00:11:03 But it was like yes, we're we're we're having sex, you know, I it was I understood that what?

00:11:09 So she said she didn't say i'm fucking him, but she said i'm having sex with him

00:11:15 Yeah, what are you talking about? It wasn't outright the same thing wasn't out. Yeah

00:11:25 Sorry, i'm i'm misunderstanding something and i'm not particularly familiar with this community so, you know, forgive my it's ignorance, but she said

00:11:32 I'm, not fucking him, but i'm having sex with him

00:11:35 Let I

00:11:39 I guess what well, let me say i'm not I I didn't like any of this and this is this is

00:11:44 Understand what you meant. Um, sorry

00:11:46 I

00:11:49 I'm trying to remember the train of thinking that maybe say all that. Um,

00:11:54 Okay, if if it's wrong, we don't worry about it too much

00:11:58 So she said i'm having sex with this other man

00:12:01 What's the deal? Like was there a limit? Was there a timeout?

00:12:04 Like you can't have sex more than three times

00:12:06 Otherwise, that's a relationship or or how did it work?

00:12:09 And like if you say well we can have sex with other people

00:12:12 Is there some rule that says but not too many times because that's like a relationship or or what?

00:12:16 No, there wasn't really anything like that

00:12:20 But what happened was basically I would see her during the week and then she would see the other guy during the weekend

00:12:26 Oh, okay. Got it. So you were like the workday sex and he was the weekend sex

00:12:32 Yeah

00:12:34 And let me say that it was it was a very sexual relationship

00:12:38 Um there, you know looking back on it now, there wasn't really much of a real. Sorry. You mean your relationship with her?

00:12:45 Yeah

00:12:48 And what was her childhood like?

00:12:50 Uh pretty bad, um, I guess she was um

00:12:56 I don't I don't know the full context but I guess she was sexually assaulted when she was little. Um,

00:13:04 She well, of course she was right

00:13:08 Right. I I guess she she was adopted. Um, apparently apparently

00:13:13 and this is all from her but um

00:13:17 I guess her her biological mother tried to abort her. Uh, but she still was born. She was put up for adoption. Um,

00:13:24 Adopted by parents, um in mexico, so she grew up in mexico

00:13:31 Uh, and then you know they

00:13:35 she uh

00:13:36 Had a lot of depression. Sorry. She was adopted out of the country

00:13:39 I yeah, i'm not sure because she was born in supposedly she was born in spain

00:13:46 and then was

00:13:48 Somehow adopted. I don't know if I don't quite know

00:13:51 Oh, maybe they were relatives or something like that. But

00:13:55 Yeah, and and and I know she said that she had tried to find information

00:14:00 But her she either her parents her adoptive parents never let her or were hiding something

00:14:06 I'm, not entirely sure and then she was sexually assaulted by her

00:14:10 Adopted like the people who adopted her

00:14:13 no, just

00:14:16 the

00:14:17 Family like cousins or something like that. Um, and she

00:14:20 She had brought it up and you know, they they didn't believe her. Um

00:14:25 And

00:14:29 I guess and I guess I I don't know if it was that alone or if just other things but she she developed depression

00:14:35 You know, she was clinically, you know

00:14:38 try went to uh, uh

00:14:40 Psychiatrist and medication and all that she had um

00:14:45 history of drug problems drug addiction

00:14:47 Um, so not not very good so why why were you why were you dating her?

00:14:55 Uh, I guess a I mean a really broken person right? He's been really terribly abused

00:15:01 Right. Uh, I think

00:15:04 First part is the the sex, you know, she was an attractive woman. I'm a girl. Um

00:15:11 You know and I

00:15:13 You know, I was into that

00:15:15 Um, but I I think I have I don't know. I'm have that

00:15:19 fix-a-girl complex

00:15:21 Kind of thing

00:15:24 But I sorry I thought you I said that it was mostly just sex which so there's not much fixing going on if you're just

00:15:29 Having sex with her, right?

00:15:31 Yeah

00:15:34 I didn't do a very good job

00:15:38 So

00:15:40 Okay, so what happened for the long run with this

00:15:50 Um this with this girl well long run, um

00:15:57 We eventually

00:16:00 she

00:16:02 the

00:16:02 We lose the other guy

00:16:04 That's a weird way of saying it. Um

00:16:07 She then that other she dumps or they break up that the other relationship they break up. Yeah

00:16:14 Um, so we're together for maybe another year just us and then it's kind of often

00:16:20 Sorry, when you say just us does that mean you know, we're the polyamory

00:16:23 Yeah, we came back to monogamy

00:16:26 And how did that come about?

00:16:29 Um just all of this

00:16:32 uh

00:16:35 I brought it up. Um, I said I I don't like this. Um, and

00:16:41 It you know, we I think the other dude was moving away too or I don't know, um, i've kind of i've tried not to

00:16:52 um

00:16:55 And so we do that I guess I should also say that while this is all through college so we're kind of only dating

00:17:04 Partially because we're only dating during the school year when the summer comes when summer break comes out like we we go on a break

00:17:10 um now she

00:17:13 Has said, you know, we've talked about it later, you know, we've we've since talked since breaking up. Um,

00:17:17 and she she said that it's

00:17:20 She felt like she wanted to let me be free, you know, she she didn't want to tie me down

00:17:24 um, you know, I took it as she wanted to go run around but

00:17:29 I never saw any evidence of that

00:17:32 Um

00:17:34 But sorry to answer the question, uh, that's kind of what it became we fizzled out we

00:17:41 were kind of on again off again for about another year and and then we officially like broke up and

00:17:47 Parted ways I moved back home from from college town

00:17:53 Okay, got it and how early was your exposure to pornography

00:18:00 Um

00:18:02 If if that was the case

00:18:06 I would say

00:18:12 I don't know. I I don't know specifically. I I would say, you know, maybe like

00:18:19 12 or 13, you know, I wasn't super young

00:18:24 Um, I was I was kind of like that preteen

00:18:29 Era, okay

00:18:31 And did you have any uh any controls on on that? Uh, or did your

00:18:36 Parents or your mother and stepfather?

00:18:39 Um

00:18:42 Manage that or deal with that at all

00:18:44 um

00:18:47 They I mean they they tried, you know, they they did what they could, uh, you know

00:18:52 um

00:18:55 And there was a time when you know, I I was looking up

00:18:59 music videos on youtube, um, and

00:19:04 They you know, I guess

00:19:07 I got the impression, you know

00:19:08 My mom approached me and said like what are you using the site for like looking up music videos?

00:19:12 I was like no like that's you know

00:19:14 I've been told that's not what that site is used for like the what do you like?

00:19:17 I so I had to show her like my search history like this is I was looking up so I don't know

00:19:22 I don't know what she thought was on there. Um, i've heard, you know, youtube was pretty spicy in the early days. Um,

00:19:29 so when you know when she had the impression she she did try to

00:19:33 manage it, but

00:19:36 You know, I I also I wasn't trying to i was trying to hide it. So

00:19:39 I would just you know, just I think google search. That's that's how that was. Okay. All right

00:19:47 um

00:19:50 Okay, so you ended up uh doing so not not seeing this woman over the summers

00:19:55 and

00:19:58 Then it fizzled out or how did that go end of school or

00:20:00 Yeah, it fizzled out. We I I stayed in town

00:20:06 Uh after graduating college, I stayed in the town renting a house for for a year afterwards

00:20:12 um

00:20:14 and we

00:20:15 um

00:20:16 I you could say we broke up like at the beginning of that and we were kind of on and off

00:20:22 throughout that year

00:20:25 Um

00:20:27 Not the full year, you know, maybe like nine months. Um

00:20:30 and

00:20:32 At that point I had I think she she was renting a house somewhere in town and I think she still had another year of school

00:20:38 and I I

00:20:40 Moved back home

00:20:42 To my parents house

00:20:46 And

00:20:47 And is that when it fizzled out? Sorry. I'm just trying to follow when it

00:20:49 Oh, yeah, I assume it has right? Yeah, it has and by the point that I had

00:20:54 Moved home. It had fizzled out

00:20:57 Uh, that's your money. Is that right?

00:20:59 Yeah

00:21:01 Okay, got it

00:21:03 and since then

00:21:05 um since then

00:21:07 I I had a another fling with a

00:21:12 Girl I had met in college. Um, we reconnected

00:21:15 we

00:21:18 I I flew out to to see her one time, you know, and we hung out

00:21:23 Like a weekend and extended weekend

00:21:26 Um, nothing, you know, we we saw a show nothing, you know, I don't even you know, we didn't even hold hands nothing like that. Um,

00:21:32 We continued communications and then she came out to my place for a couple of weeks we were going to go see a show

00:21:41 um

00:21:43 That fell through

00:21:45 But she still stayed in town with me and over that i'm sorry what fell through the show?

00:21:49 the show that we were going to see it was it was like a

00:21:52 uh a weekend show

00:21:55 um

00:21:56 But we mean a show that plans for that the whole weekend

00:21:59 Yes, it's a music a music festival

00:22:02 Oh, okay. Yeah, like okay. Got it. Um

00:22:06 And she so she I I bought two tickets. I I like this festival and I like to invite people

00:22:11 So i'll buy an extra ticket

00:22:12 and you know, I

00:22:14 There's usually a friend or someone that you know, okay, come along, you know, uh, and that that was this situation

00:22:20 I ended up I guess just giving context. I ended up adopting a dog

00:22:24 that same week

00:22:26 um

00:22:28 Thinking I could you know have my cousin come

00:22:30 Uh watch her while watch the dog while I was away

00:22:35 Obviously that that didn't work, you know, you can't

00:22:37 Have a new dog, you know all this new environment and stuff. So

00:22:41 Didn't go to the show to

00:22:44 Help, you know get the dog back into the house

00:22:47 And throughout that weekend and the following week

00:22:51 The this girl stayed at my house with me

00:22:54 Uh, sorry your house being you and your parents or you were you alone at this point?

00:23:01 So so I guess that that yeah, that is important

00:23:03 So I I was living with my parents. Um, and this is my mom's house that we have lived in since I was little

00:23:09 um

00:23:11 I moved back in I stayed there for

00:23:13 Maybe a year and so throughout all this time my

00:23:17 Stepdad has his own house. Um

00:23:20 So, uh

00:23:24 after a little bit of staying there I was I

00:23:27 Put up the proposition like hey, why don't like if if you like, you know, you you both can move into

00:23:32 a stepdad's house

00:23:35 And I you know, I can pay you rent to stay here

00:23:39 um

00:23:41 So that's that's they they agreed, you know, and that's what we did. So by

00:23:46 Maybe you know a year later when this girl by the time this girl had come to stay with me the house

00:23:52 It was by myself in this house

00:23:55 and did you

00:23:57 Change anything to do with the house or was it basically like your parents?

00:24:02 House and you just kind of lived there in other words were you living in like boomerville or did you do anything?

00:24:08 Make it sort of your own

00:24:10 No, I would I would make it my own

00:24:12 I I've always had a tendency to even just my room just to up and change it, you know, rearrange it. Um, but once

00:24:19 once I was

00:24:22 Renting the whole house. I you know would repaint walls. I took over the landscaping, you know, i'm

00:24:27 planting stuff I was really into all that gardening and whatnot and

00:24:30 Um, I did you know, I ended up painting wall murals, you know, you go to lowes they sell like discount paint

00:24:36 So i'll just buy random paint

00:24:38 So I I definitely made it my own rearranging and such

00:24:41 and so and you still had you kissed or or was this a friend or were you aiming to be

00:24:47 A boyfriend or with this this the boy who came to stay with you?

00:24:52 It I it was yeah, it was a originally a friend but I was intending, you know, I liked her, you know

00:24:57 I was intending to

00:24:59 make it serious

00:25:00 um

00:25:02 and

00:25:03 we

00:25:05 I don't know that we specifically said do you want to start dating?

00:25:12 And how long have you known this

00:25:17 woman and spent time with this woman before

00:25:21 You even talked about dating

00:25:23 I knew her

00:25:25 Um

00:25:28 I knew her in person for a year because we were we lived in the same dorm floor. That's why our

00:25:34 Freshman year. Yeah, is that how wild that is?

00:25:37 Yeah, I mean the the previous relationship you're sharing your girlfriend your hypersexual girlfriend with other men

00:25:45 And this one you don't even hold hands for a year

00:25:50 Can you find something in the middle or is that you just like a person of extremes that way it just seems kind of kind

00:25:55 of wild

00:25:56 I

00:25:57 Yeah

00:25:59 Yeah, I guess so

00:26:01 I mean, did you want to date her earlier or was this part of the I don't know don't get tied down thing or

00:26:06 I know I did I was so I guess I was interested in her when we met

00:26:11 Uh, but she was dating. She had a boyfriend in her hometown. She was from out of state. She had a boyfriend. So she was

00:26:19 unavailable

00:26:21 So by this point

00:26:25 She had broken up with her boyfriend

00:26:27 And we had reconnected

00:26:30 you know online, I mean we still kind of kept in touch and stuff, but we

00:26:34 Reconnected and then I I

00:26:38 Set up going over there like to see her right. Okay, and and you know, and that went so well that you know

00:26:44 We continued continued it. Okay, kind of I guess it's kind of an extreme first date

00:26:50 Got it. Okay

00:26:52 All right. Uh, and so did you end up getting together with this woman?

00:26:56 uh, yeah, but after after

00:27:00 You know, we we had dated basically a couple of weeks and then I

00:27:05 I

00:27:08 Had I don't know. I internally like freaked out, you know, I

00:27:11 See because I don't know what it was

00:27:14 You know if it was still processing the the previous relationship or what?

00:27:19 But I told you know, I'm I broke up with her just telling her as much like, you know, you know, i'm i'm not

00:27:23 Ready, you flirted with this woman for a year kind of

00:27:27 Yeah, and then you find together to date you and you break up a couple of weeks later

00:27:33 Yes, okay

00:27:36 All right

00:27:38 I know no i'm just what the hell that's yeah, but

00:27:44 I get and was interested in dating you before that like who who was who was not dating him over that year

00:27:50 She I mean she was interested in in

00:27:54 I I got you you kept this woman dangling for a year

00:27:57 And then broke up with her a couple of weeks after dating her

00:28:01 Well, we didn't really you know, she lived in a different state and you know, we didn't

00:28:06 I don't you know, i'm not

00:28:09 Not that wild

00:28:14 Oh, so just pick her up the first day we started talking

00:28:16 That's not what I said though. I mean this woman wanted to date you for a year, right?

00:28:22 I didn't know that. Oh, come on. I mean you're not a kid right? You're not 14

00:28:28 No, you have no like okay. So a young a woman

00:28:33 Uh wants to is is hanging around you and likes you right and she's of dating age and she's single, right?

00:28:40 I mean, I I can't talk with people who play dumb like I just I can't do that

00:28:44 I can't do because if you were that dumb

00:28:47 We wouldn't be able to have a conversation

00:28:49 I like you wouldn't be able to tie your own shoes, right?

00:28:56 Yeah, I mean I I guess i'm i'm I don't see

00:29:01 You know, I I don't see the problem in talking to someone for

00:29:09 A while before engaging, you know into a relationship

00:29:13 Uh, is that is that where we want to have our discussions that you think i'm criticizing you for

00:29:20 For talking to someone is that really where we're gonna have our level of conversation because that's kind of boring

00:29:25 Oh, i'm, sorry. I I don't know that's

00:29:28 Talking to someone i'm talking to you

00:29:31 Why would I be criticizing you for talking to someone you're just purposefully reframing what i'm saying, right?

00:29:37 That's that's how I interpreted the no, no, no, it's not. No, do you do you really think I talk to people for a living?

00:29:42 Right, you know that right?

00:29:44 Have you listened to these call-in shows before?

00:29:46 Yes. Okay. So do you think i'm criticizing you for talking to someone?

00:29:50 No, do you think i'm criticizing you for talking to someone before you get engaged in a sexual relationship?

00:29:57 No, and that okay

00:30:00 What what is what is there just you don't have to agree with it. But what do you think is my potential?

00:30:06 mildly negative statement, it's not some big criticism, but

00:30:08 What is my potentially mildly negative statement?

00:30:12 Even if you don't agree with it, and I think it might be

00:30:15 well, I didn't I didn't

00:30:18 I didn't say I

00:30:20 I

00:30:23 You you made you made the comment that I you I kept her dangling for a year

00:30:35 Before I started to date her right

00:30:37 And then you responded with I had no idea she was attracted to me

00:30:42 Yeah, or she liked me well in that way, right?

00:30:46 But if a woman I mean and that's why I said like you I can't give you that lack of intelligence, right?

00:30:52 I mean if okay, she's she was young and single, right?

00:30:57 True okay. No, I I agree

00:31:01 and she was she was wanting to hang around with you and she wanted to talk with you and she wanted to come and

00:31:05 Visit you and right so the idea that there's zero

00:31:09 Way to figure out if she has any romantic interest in you at all. I I can't I can't operate at that level of playing dumb

00:31:16 No, I no, I I okay. I'm sorry. I recant my statement. I agree. I have the

00:31:22 I I knew that she yeah, you knew she was attracted to you and listen

00:31:26 I'm not saying this makes you some big bad ogre

00:31:28 she's got free will and she makes choices and all of that, but

00:31:31 You know

00:31:32 Let's let's not operate at the level of I had no idea that this woman who wanted to come and visit me who was young

00:31:37 And single and really loved spending time with me that she might I had no idea that she might even remotely be

00:31:43 Interested in me from a romantic standpoint, right? Like I just I can't I can't do that stuff, right?

00:31:49 Okay, does that make sense?

00:31:52 Yes, I mean it must have crossed your mind, right?

00:31:55 Right. Oh, yes. Yeah. Okay. So when I say you kept her dangling

00:31:59 Is that do you have any idea why you didn't want to date her for the year?

00:32:04 in that year

00:32:06 Um, well, I mean we were we're far apart, you know, I didn't I wasn't sure I wanted to do a long-distance relationship like that

00:32:17 Okay, I think I think even

00:32:22 Her and did you tell her did you tell her that there was really no possibility of a romantic relationship?

00:32:28 Because she was so far apart

00:32:31 No

00:32:35 And

00:32:39 You know, and I don't know that, you know, we were talking for a whole year. I'm just I'm just trying to give general

00:32:44 a general time frame

00:32:47 You know and and us talking was reconnecting and you know, it's it's a gradual build-up

00:32:51 You know

00:32:53 Okay, do you think that a young single woman who wants to come and live with you for a couple of weeks is just coming

00:33:03 as a friend

00:33:05 No, well, I mean by that point i'm not

00:33:09 By that point i'm not saying I didn't you know at that point I was intending to date her

00:33:14 That was kind of you were sorry you were intending to date her

00:33:17 Yeah, okay

00:33:20 like that that was

00:33:22 Partially the idea of this whole trip and this whole music festival was to kind of initiate that right?

00:33:29 Um, but let me ask you this I mean so she comes to visit you and the barrier before

00:33:35 And i'm not critical. I'm just just curious. So the barrier was distance. But how was that solved when you dated her?

00:33:43 It wasn't

00:33:47 So that wasn't a big issue

00:33:49 However, it wasn't a big enough issue to keep you out of the relationship. Do I have that right?

00:33:52 Right, I was I was willing to to try that

00:33:57 Sorry again i'm confused because I thought you said earlier that you didn't want to date her because the distance was too great

00:34:06 And then you're willing to date her even though the distance hasn't been solved

00:34:09 Yeah, I mean

00:34:18 You can I don't know I got got over myself I guess

00:34:21 Okay, so the distance wasn't a deal breaker

00:34:26 Right, right. I mean if I say i'm never going to work for forty thousand dollars a year

00:34:31 And then I take a job at forty thousand dollars a year

00:34:34 My former statement is just not correct. No, of course things could have changed and all of that, right, but

00:34:38 Well when you're you know

00:34:41 Say you're not making any money for a year forty thousand dollars doesn't sound so bad

00:34:46 Well, and I guess if you had no other romantic prospects

00:34:49 Then you're willing to make this one, right?

00:34:52 Correct. Okay, so it it wasn't

00:34:54 Primarily the distance it was um, you know, could it can I get someone closer? You couldn't get someone closer

00:35:00 So you went with her right now. Well, did she know when she was coming to visit you that this was romantic in nature?

00:35:07 Um, I don't think I I don't know it I never explicitly said anything like that

00:35:15 Okay

00:35:17 Okay, it was a friendly

00:35:19 You think that a woman you think that a woman who's coming to visit you and I assume stay with you. Is that right?

00:35:24 Yeah

00:35:27 I mean

00:35:28 I'm just sorry. I'm

00:35:30 I'm just having trouble understanding this. Okay, so let's say that you have a wife, right your wife

00:35:40 And you have to go on some big business trip to the far east for two weeks, right

00:35:45 Okay, and your wife says

00:35:50 A young attractive single man I met online is coming

00:35:57 To sleep under our roof for two weeks while you're away

00:36:00 How would you feel?

00:36:03 I'd be highly suspicious

00:36:06 But why?

00:36:10 Well, there's a lot of implications with that right

00:36:14 So so when a woman comes to stay with you and live under your roof for a couple of weeks

00:36:20 That I assume you've been somewhat half flirting with to some degree over the last 10 12 months or whatever, right?

00:36:27 And then I say did she know that there could be anything romantic about it and you said I don't know

00:36:35 But then you say well if my wife said i'm having a young attractive single man

00:36:38 I met online coming to stay with me for a couple of weeks while you're away. You'd say oh no, that's highly suspect because

00:36:43 I mean, right. Yeah, i'm trying to well I wear these circles it's

00:36:49 I can I can assume as much with like with the context that you just brought up but she didn't explicitly tell me. Hey, I think this

00:36:57 Situation has sexual intent

00:37:00 or romantic intent

00:37:03 So I can't say like I know what she was thinking

00:37:05 Um

00:37:11 Did you invite her over with the idea of potential romantic intent

00:37:16 Yes

00:37:21 So there was romantic intent for you

00:37:24 She's going to come and stay

00:37:26 and you don't know if there's I mean

00:37:28 You don't know for sure if there was any romantic intent for her

00:37:33 But you would assume that right

00:37:35 Yeah, okay

00:37:38 And so did she come and did I remember this rightly she came to visit you twice, is that right?

00:37:43 Uh once I I went to visit her once, uh, okay and how long into your conversation was that

00:37:52 Um

00:37:56 I don't I don't know. Um

00:38:01 That I mean that was maybe

00:38:03 The nine or ten month mark because it was a couple of months after that that she flew out

00:38:12 to me

00:38:15 So it was like nine or ten months that you went to visit her but there was no nothing romantic that happened there. Is that right?

00:38:21 Right, we I mean we went to a show. Um, I I stayed at her house. I slept on her couch

00:38:29 um

00:38:31 You know and then and then maybe there's slight flirtations and stuff but um

00:38:37 Nothing, nothing really happened

00:38:40 And why and was this again out of concern for the distance

00:38:45 No, i'm I mean to be honest i'm i'm pretty a pretty shy person

00:38:52 um

00:38:54 Growing up. I've i've tried to work on that and make that better. So, you know, and like I said before i'm not like a

00:39:00 I'm, not a ladies man. So i'm i'm not you know, each of these experiences i'm i'm learning from and trying to do better the next time

00:39:08 No, okay, so, um

00:39:12 Did you ever talk to her and say what is happening with our relationship?

00:39:16 Or no i'm interested in you romantically, but

00:39:21 No, I mean just man to man it just feels odd that you go visit some girl you've been flirting with for

00:39:25 nine months and you just sleep on her couch and you don't say anything or ask any questions or

00:39:31 Does that seem not a bit odd?

00:39:34 Oh, yeah

00:39:35 I won't deny that. Okay. I just wanted maybe there's maybe there's been some big value shift, you know

00:39:40 We have obviously we've got some separation in age, but so sorry go ahead

00:39:43 No, like there's definitely opportunities for me to make them move, you know, and and and all that

00:39:50 uh, but like like I said, I

00:39:52 I didn't make them

00:39:54 So why can't you

00:39:57 Uh make a move maybe one way of putting it but just have an honest conversation

00:40:02 What's uh, what's so hard about that?

00:40:05 And I don't mean that in some sort of like what the hell so hard. What's the matter with you?

00:40:09 I'm, just genuinely curious like why no, why is that so hard for you to say?

00:40:13 Um, you know, what's the status of our relationship?

00:40:16 I'm interested in something romantic or i'm attracted to you or like

00:40:20 What's wrong with uh, what what is so difficult about just that kind of direct communication?

00:40:25 Right now I understand. Um, and I guess to

00:40:30 Maybe I guess it's not quite jumping ahead. But I like in my most recent

00:40:36 Interaction with the girl that I I had interest in I did do that. You know, we had

00:40:42 Started talking it came up that she had a boyfriend, but you know, she was still

00:40:47 Kind of interacting with me in a way that I thought like, okay, she's keeping me interested

00:40:52 So I was up front with her and I said like hey

00:40:54 you know seems like

00:40:56 You're interested in me. I'm interested in you. But you know, you said you have a boyfriend. What's the story?

00:41:01 Like what's what's going on here?

00:41:03 Um, you know, she said, you know, she's fully committed. Sorry for any mixed signals and you know, and we moved on from that

00:41:11 So I was there something other than the distance thing I appreciate that update was there was there something about this woman

00:41:17 That you found unattractive outside of the distance

00:41:23 Yeah, so after

00:41:26 Really talking with her there, you know

00:41:28 there was

00:41:31 I I eventually would like to

00:41:33 Have a family, you know have children

00:41:36 And that was one thing she specifically said, you know, I don't see myself as a mother. I don't like children

00:41:42 Um, so that was a big point

00:41:45 Um

00:41:48 And there there is just different personality things. Um, she was I get to I don't know how you would she was very

00:41:55 Into

00:41:59 Into weird just for the sake of being weird like just into

00:42:03 Chaos just because chaos is cool kind of thing

00:42:06 You know, she wasn't going around

00:42:09 Um

00:42:11 Disrupting things or whatever, but she I don't I don't know if that I don't know if that makes sense. Does that mean?

00:42:16 I i'm trying to it was like it's like the a personality type where i'm trying to word it she

00:42:24 Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up because I don't know how to fully explain it

00:42:34 Uh, no, that's fine. I mean it's a relationship that didn't work out

00:42:37 So you dated her for a couple of weeks and then you broke up with her and was this mostly around the kids stuff?

00:42:41 Yeah

00:42:43 Okay, and I guess you learned your lesson that avoiding communication can waste a year of your life, right?

00:42:48 Oh, yeah. Okay. Got it. Got it

00:42:51 All right. So then what's happened since then?

00:42:54 Um, well pretty soon after that was um

00:43:03 I guess pretty soon after that. I think the next year was coded so that you know that all happened I um

00:43:10 Shifted, you know the job I had

00:43:14 You know, it's kind of a detour but the job I had

00:43:16 Shut down, so I ended up getting another job for the for the time

00:43:21 Got back to that job and eventually was offered a job in

00:43:26 um

00:43:27 I stayed out west

00:43:29 And I took that so and this is without you know within the course of another year and a half

00:43:33 um

00:43:36 So then I I decided to move out west and take another job there, uh, and I haven't

00:43:41 I haven't had any kind of relationship

00:43:44 since then really

00:43:47 Um, the the town I moved out to was pretty desolate it was a you know resort town in the mountains, um

00:43:56 So there I don't know that you can say the the dating pool was pretty slim out there

00:44:02 So that was kind of another reason for coming back here

00:44:06 I live within a major city area. So there you know, there's more people more chances to to meet somebody

00:44:13 That's kind of where i'm at now with uh

00:44:18 the dating scene

00:44:19 Okay, got it. Got it. So

00:44:21 there's

00:44:22 The the longest I wouldn't really count the polyamorous one

00:44:26 The longest successful relationship that you've had

00:44:28 Or just the longest relationship

00:44:32 Yeah, the longest yeah longest relationship i've had

00:44:36 Is what?

00:44:38 The that that polyamorous one. Yeah, that was polyamorous. So you can't really count that and so I said not counting that one

00:44:45 Plus it was you said it was on again off again like continual the longest consistent continual relationship

00:44:52 Would probably be my my my first girlfriend in high school we dated

00:44:57 To one or two years and

00:45:01 Sorry, was that one or two? What do you mean?

00:45:04 Oh, i'm trying to recall. Um, okay started dating not two but that's like okay years ago, isn't it?

00:45:12 Yeah

00:45:14 Yeah, so why do you why do you think you haven't really had a successful relationship in almost 15 years?

00:45:20 You

00:45:22 Um, i've i've

00:45:27 A lot of times i've chalked it up to

00:45:33 You know being a shy person and not not being you know, putting myself out there as much but no but I mean

00:45:41 shyness is something it's shyness is not like

00:45:44 Cerebral palsy or something right? I mean right shyness is something you can work on if it's important enough, you know

00:45:50 Uh, so I it's not it's not that why why do you think?

00:45:54 I i've wondered sometimes it

00:45:59 So growing growing up

00:46:02 seeing how my parents were

00:46:04 um, I always had a

00:46:07 I wanted marriage to me. Uh, um

00:46:10 Sorry, my voice is starting to break. Um

00:46:15 I was wanting marriage to be like a big deal like to me, you know, wow

00:46:19 Um, excuse me

00:46:22 I wanted it to be a big deal. Don't excuse yourself for being emotional about very important things. That's a good thing

00:46:27 That's a good sign. Anyway, so I got

00:46:30 Um, you know, thank you. Um

00:46:33 So I I guess I always put a lot of weight into into that. Um, but i've also always had this

00:46:42 Thing in the back of my mind of kind of afraid to

00:46:47 Re like reenact be like my father. Um, because he

00:46:52 I don't know. He never really had a he never had a successful

00:46:56 relationship

00:46:59 Oh, so i'm okay, so so let me let me ask you this did your father have more successful relationships than you've had

00:47:11 Um

00:47:13 I mean he got married, right?

00:47:17 Yeah, he had a kid married

00:47:19 Yeah, he's so he's had

00:47:22 had three kids

00:47:23 Okay, so so he's become a father and i'm obviously not a great father, but you know

00:47:28 He got married and he had kids

00:47:29 And he's had other relationships and and so on right? Is he in a relationship right now?

00:47:33 Yes, he's got a girlfriend right now, um, and how long is he going out

00:47:40 Oh

00:47:42 Maybe the better part of a year. Um

00:47:44 And what's his longest relationship? I know it's a little tough to know but but that you know of oh, um

00:47:51 Oh the longest that I know of is with

00:47:58 the the woman

00:48:02 His my my stepmom

00:48:04 Ex-stepmom. I don't know. Um

00:48:07 He married a woman after my mother

00:48:10 um

00:48:13 And had a child with her and they were together. Gosh, I don't know how long um

00:48:17 Um, well they got divorced when my sister was

00:48:23 Kind of young five maybe maybe like seven

00:48:36 So they were together for about that long

00:48:39 You know, they dated a bit

00:48:41 They well, no they dated for

00:48:43 A couple of years before getting married

00:48:46 Okay, and

00:48:50 So, I mean in many ways obviously not sustained but but your father's been more successful in his relationships than you have been right

00:48:57 Yes

00:49:01 So what's the worst case scenario for you with regards to your relationship?

00:49:05 Your relationships and your father and his impact on you. What what's the what's the fear there or what's maybe the paralysis?

00:49:12 I

00:49:16 Launched I've

00:49:19 Like I guess an example

00:49:23 the

00:49:24 When the stepmom with the second marriage when that ended he was already seeing another woman

00:49:32 um, and he had even brought

00:49:36 Like me and my sister like to like to putt-putt with her

00:49:40 um, I guess I don't know I guess to introduce us or something, but that was

00:49:44 You know a couple months before they had gotten into force

00:49:51 Okay, and and and I guess that about that

00:49:55 I don't I don't know. I I didn't really take it a certain way

00:49:59 at the time

00:50:02 But when when they did get a divorce, you know, I I don't know. I just

00:50:06 I wasn't as concerned about it for me because I didn't have a strong relationship with my stepmother

00:50:13 but I

00:50:15 Was concerned of how how my sister would take it all

00:50:20 I I haven't talked to her about it

00:50:22 but you know, she didn't

00:50:25 I don't know. I guess maybe I was worried

00:50:28 I I felt bad for my sister

00:50:31 Okay

00:50:35 Um

00:50:38 And then I guess just to to finish off

00:50:41 My dad's relationships, you know, he so he ended up dating

00:50:44 that that new girlfriend

00:50:48 For a couple of years they lived together and then

00:50:51 They broke up

00:50:54 He was he ended up moving into a friend's house

00:50:57 uh started talking to

00:51:00 Excuse me an old friend of his of her. Yeah an old friend of his

00:51:03 I think from high school or something and she lived out west

00:51:07 They started seeing each other flying back and forth and eventually he decided to move out west to live with her

00:51:17 Right, okay

00:51:19 All right, got it

00:51:24 So worst case scenario is what

00:51:28 I guess multiple marriages and multiple children

00:51:35 All right, and

00:51:39 Is that better I mean just is that that must be worse than what you're doing, right?

00:51:46 Um

00:51:48 Because you're choosing this over that i'm not saying these are the only two options but maybe in your head

00:51:52 to some degree

00:51:55 I guess in my head i'm i'm trying to

00:51:57 I'm trying to

00:52:01 Find a a steady relationship that I can turn into a steady marriage and you know and build a family from that

00:52:07 Are you and I i'm not I don't know. I'm not uh, i'm not afraid of of doing that or anything

00:52:14 I feel like I can accomplish that

00:52:16 um

00:52:18 Okay, but maybe so

00:52:20 Sorry, so you've been working on this project since you were in your mid-teens to some degree or another right if if

00:52:26 Right just to have some sort of steady relationship, right?

00:52:28 So 15 years with no success, right?

00:52:32 Right

00:52:35 And you're not close

00:52:37 No

00:52:42 I mean, right so I mean if if I said I want to be

00:52:46 An actor

00:52:50 And i've never gotten hired for anything or kept a job and after 15 years i'm not even going on auditions

00:52:58 What would you say to me?

00:53:01 You know try harder

00:53:04 You'd say try harder

00:53:07 Yeah, if you say you want to be an actor and you're not you're not trying

00:53:12 You're not trying

00:53:14 No, but if I would if I were to say to you that my main goal for the last 15 years has

00:53:18 been to be an actor

00:53:20 and yet

00:53:22 You have it right, right, would you believe me

00:53:26 No

00:53:28 Right, because I mean if you really want to be an actor, I mean, there's tons of people who are actors

00:53:32 They're all over the place on tv

00:53:34 there are tons of people who are actors and what they do is they

00:53:38 You know, they they study accents they they study monologues they

00:53:41 Go on endless auditions. They do amateur theater. They you know build their right. Yeah, you know, right?

00:53:47 no, that doesn't mean that they'll succeed but

00:53:49 They're certainly trying right?

00:53:52 Right. See a man's priorities are measured by his actions

00:53:58 And it's true for women too, but we're just talking man to man here, right?

00:54:03 So a man's priorities are measured by his actions. Is that fair?

00:54:08 Yes, because people can say whatever they want

00:54:11 If I say i'm desperate to lose weight, but I keep eating more and more and more and I don't exercise

00:54:19 Then clearly i'm not particularly desperate to lose weight because losing weight isn't actually that complicated, right?

00:54:25 I mean, it's not easy sometimes but it's you know, eat less exercise more. It's not that complicated, right?

00:54:31 Right

00:54:34 So i'm trying to figure out

00:54:37 Right, certainly if you say, you know get getting married and having kids is a is the goal then

00:54:42 the severely emotionally disturbed polyamorous girl

00:54:46 Is not that right?

00:54:50 All right

00:54:52 and if you say well my goal is to get married and have

00:54:55 A family and you kind of half flirt and visit with a girl

00:54:59 For a year before even asking if she wants to have a family two times

00:55:03 I don't mean to laugh but you understand why why this is a challenge, right?

00:55:07 Right

00:55:09 And you only after you've flirted and traveled off and on for like a year and you start dating her

00:55:14 Only then do you talk anything to her about?

00:55:17 Whether she even wants to have children or be a wife. Does that make sense?

00:55:22 Right

00:55:26 So, I guess that's my question is that's not your goal

00:55:29 It can't be

00:55:34 I mean if I say my goal is to learn guitar and

00:55:39 I never pick up guitar and then I ended up, you know, I sign up for a year's worth of lessons

00:55:46 From a music teacher and then only after a year, you know of going to him and he's like man

00:55:51 He just keeps teaching me piano and it's like did you ever ask him if he?

00:55:54 Teaches guitar. No. Well when I finally did ask him he's like no, I don't teach guitar. I don't right. I don't

00:56:00 Like then me wanting to learn guitar would be like not true, right?

00:56:04 right

00:56:07 and again, it's not critical I mean just

00:56:09 Where we learn about our lives is through the empiricism of our actions, right?

00:56:14 Yeah

00:56:17 So

00:56:22 What is it that you're trying to achieve in what it is that you're actually doing

00:56:27 What is your goal?

00:56:30 Like the empirical goal not your conscious goal or your stated goal, but the empirical goal

00:56:34 Does that make sense?

00:56:37 I

00:56:40 Maybe do you mean

00:56:43 I

00:56:44 Like what what am I trying to do with myself?

00:56:46 Well, you have everybody has goals, right?

00:56:49 Right. So, you know one example would be uh, just so it's a little less abstract. I know it's a little too abstract

00:56:56 Sorry, that was that's my bad

00:56:57 So one example if if a woman says I just I want a great boyfriend this that and the other and she's she's complaining

00:57:03 About not having a great boyfriend, but she also, you know doesn't take care of her personal hygiene

00:57:07 And is a hundred pounds overweight

00:57:10 Yeah

00:57:13 All right

00:57:14 Then her secret goal is to avoid having a boyfriend like maybe she's I don't know

00:57:19 maybe she was sexually abused as a child and she needs to avoid intimacy because

00:57:23 It's incredibly painful for her or something like that. So there's the stated stuff

00:57:28 And then there's the empirical stuff right and the empirical stuff is the real stuff

00:57:32 Right

00:57:35 so I um, yeah, so then I guess I've here recently i've been

00:57:39 Trying to self-improve, you know, i've been no no into the gym. Oh my gosh. No, no

00:57:45 No, no, no. I'm not i'm not talking about i'm not talking about your goals. Now i'm talking about the empirical

00:57:51 I mean you've been an adult for 12 years, right?

00:57:53 It sounds like your career's going relatively. Well, is that right?

00:57:57 Yeah, oh good for you. Good for you

00:58:00 Uh, so you've been an adult for 12 years and you say like I want to get married and have a family

00:58:04 But you're pursuing actions in the complete opposite of that, right?

00:58:08 polyamory girl and and

00:58:11 Girl with boyfriend and a girl with uh, like, you know the moment a woman says, uh

00:58:19 She's flirting with you as this woman was and she says I have a boyfriend

00:58:22 Right you stop seeing her I mean the idea of like well gee really what's going on here like no you

00:58:30 Have some values some standards yourself, right?

00:58:32 You don't you don't date a woman who's?

00:58:35 Cheating on her boyfriend, even if it's just flirtatious cheating

00:58:37 When I was I I didn't I wasn't

00:58:41 Going to you know when it first came up. I

00:58:43 Didn't you know that was it she continued to talk to me and that it was pretty shortly after that

00:58:48 I brought it up like hey, like what's what's going on?

00:58:51 No, no, you know i'm not no I I remember exactly what you said, but that's a passive thing, right?

00:58:56 But you say um go deal with your boyfriend and you block her

00:59:00 Okay, am I wrong

00:59:06 As opposed to okay

00:59:08 So if you just said what's going on and she said, you know, I i'm really on the verge of breaking up with my boyfriend

00:59:12 You're just such a way better guy. I'd love to get together with you

00:59:16 I need to obviously to take some counseling or to have a transition or something like what is the what's going on an opening?

00:59:21 No sounds like it

00:59:28 It's an invitation to explain right

00:59:33 Yeah

00:59:43 Again it's not a criticism. I'm just

00:59:45 If you're asking someone to explain it means you're willing to accept an explanation, right?

00:59:50 Or there's a potential explanation

00:59:54 Yeah

00:59:57 So you've got three girlfriends or I guess the last one's not quite a girlfriend but you've got three whatevers

01:00:07 That

01:00:12 Can't really lead to marriage and children, right?

01:00:16 Right. So what is your secret goal and go into the gym now and so on if you don't know your past

01:00:24 secret goals

01:00:27 You can't

01:00:29 You can't fix your the current discrepancy between what you say you want and what you're actually doing does that make sense

01:00:36 Yeah

01:00:39 And I what have you been doing for the last 12 years that you've managed to avoid a wife and family so efficiently

01:00:45 It I guess it hasn't been a my primary goal those last please stop being so much work

01:00:56 You've done the opposite so saying it's not my primary goal does that mean it's your secondary goal that means you suck at your secondary goal

01:01:04 If you're doing the opposite

01:01:07 It's not well i'm not doing it quite as well

01:01:09 Like if I say go north and you head south and you say well

01:01:12 I guess my primary goal is not exactly to head north and it's like you're heading south

01:01:16 That's right

01:01:19 So I mean this with affection, but please stop being so much work and please stop mely mouthing me because you know

01:01:23 I'm, 57 years old. I don't have much time left on the planet

01:01:26 Sorry

01:01:30 I you know you

01:01:33 you watch these videos and you always

01:01:36 Never want to be that person. I know

01:01:38 I sympathize and it's sad to me. Of course that these conversations are not more common in society

01:01:43 so I understand and I sympathize and i'm not mad at you or anything i'm just

01:01:47 I just can't do too much more of this fogging stuff. It's just kind of

01:01:51 It's so obvious, right? Okay. No, it's fine. It's fine. So

01:01:55 And but but what it does is it tells me

01:01:58 That you're surrounded by people

01:02:01 Who listen to this nonsense? I don't mean that you're nonsense. I just mean this fogging stuff

01:02:06 Right, right who should have been having these conversations with you?

01:02:10 My

01:02:16 My friends and my family well my parents well your parents, right?

01:02:19 Yeah

01:02:22 so

01:02:23 Who is it in your life who works like who's who's trained you to to put out these ridiculous excuses and these avoidances and this fog?

01:02:30 and this

01:02:31 Right, so what's going on in your relationships your primary relationships? Let's talk in particular with your

01:02:36 It sounds like you're closer to your stepdad than your dad. Is that right?

01:02:40 Um

01:02:44 I don't know. Yeah. Yes. Yes, and no

01:02:49 Okay, that's fine. So I don't sorry. I don't want to get overly complicated with that stuff

01:02:53 So we'll just say that they're equal. Okay, so you have your mother and two fathers

01:03:01 And have they had direct conversations with you about the fact that you're 30

01:03:06 And further away from getting married and having children than you were when you were 18 now, do you know why you're further away?

01:03:15 Hmm

01:03:20 No, i'm

01:03:22 I I could guess but no

01:03:24 Okay, so if you're an employee

01:03:27 Right and and you're 18 years old and you have almost no track record of working and you go for a job

01:03:33 Your resume is pretty thin which means you get judged on who you are the interview, right?

01:03:36 Now if

01:03:40 You're 30 and you have 12 years of work experience and it mostly involves being unemployed

01:03:45 Being in dead-end jobs or getting fired

01:03:51 Or saying oh no, I I worked for some place for a year for free and then I finally asked them what the salary was

01:03:57 And it turns out I was they didn't even want to pay me

01:03:59 So like you then have a 12-year track record of pretty terrible

01:04:04 work decisions, right

01:04:06 Yeah

01:04:08 So right now if you're looking for a woman who's 30, let's say

01:04:11 Now she's single too. So I get all of that

01:04:14 But maybe she was in a long-term relationship and the guy got eaten by a shark, you know

01:04:18 Something that's really not her fault, right?

01:04:21 Yeah, so a woman looks at you at 30

01:04:23 Right at 18 you could say well, it was a high school romance and we moved apart or something like that

01:04:28 so but a woman looks at you at 30

01:04:30 and she sees uh, okay, so

01:04:33 He hasn't dated for long periods of time. He dated a polyamorous girl

01:04:38 Uh got involved in some weird romantic triangle that went on for a long time

01:04:43 And then he dated half dated a girl or flirted with a girl

01:04:47 They went to visit each other nobody talked about anything and then he dumped her a couple of weeks after dating her because he found out

01:04:53 Even after knowing her for a year and having some romantic interest that she didn't even want kids

01:04:57 And then he got involved with a woman who was flirting on her boyfriend. I mean, how do you look?

01:05:03 Pretty pretty bad

01:05:08 Yeah

01:05:10 And i'm not trying to make experience. I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm really not i'm just saying that

01:05:15 when you say well, it hasn't been my

01:05:17 primary goal thing you're

01:05:19 You're building a moat around yourself

01:05:22 Right, you're building a big moat. I've been avoiding it by accumulating experiences

01:05:28 that bar you

01:05:30 From having much of a chance with a high quality woman. Does this make sense?

01:05:34 Yeah

01:05:38 It's so you haven't dated you've self-sabotaged

01:05:44 Now when I say self-sabotaged I mean that the people around you

01:05:48 Have allowed your lust to cause you to sin against your future

01:05:52 Did your mother or either of your fathers know that the girl you were dating was into polyamory

01:06:01 Yeah, I had talked to my mother about it

01:06:07 At at some point while it was going on. She so you're you talking about my girlfriend

01:06:14 Has talked me into polyamory, right?

01:06:16 Yeah, and what did your mother say?

01:06:19 She didn't approve, you know, she

01:06:23 Said I shouldn't I shouldn't do that

01:06:26 Okay, did you talk to any of the men?

01:06:29 In your your two fathers

01:06:32 No

01:06:34 Why not?

01:06:35 My I guess my primary relationship has always been with my mother

01:06:40 You

01:06:42 Well, it's not that primary relationship if you don't take any advice from her in these essential areas

01:06:49 Yeah, why did she say it was a it was bad why what was her argument

01:06:55 Um

01:07:00 I you know, I I couldn't recall the exact conversation. Um

01:07:08 I I think

01:07:10 She you know, she she had told me it, you know, it's just not good for me not healthy for me

01:07:17 Uh, she you know, she told me that she thinks I should break up, you know not not be a part of that

01:07:24 Um, I guess that that's a repeat, you know to also include in that, you know my my first

01:07:32 Girl high school

01:07:36 Uh when we had got serious my mom

01:07:38 Gave me similar

01:07:41 Her advice saying, you know, just be careful, you know, don't don't get too serious. Don't let her

01:07:47 Uh, you know because at the time that that girlfriend wanted to move into a house together

01:07:52 um, and she didn't want me going to college my my mom said, you know, that's

01:07:57 Not good. Don't don't

01:08:00 It's just like a high school. I'm sorry. Why but why was that not good?

01:08:04 Why

01:08:06 Uh, I mean did you love her

01:08:08 I mean the girlfriend

01:08:12 um

01:08:16 I I would say

01:08:20 It was what do they call it? Like puppy love, you know, it's I I don't know that

01:08:24 it it was

01:08:26 I don't think that was a good relationship either but and plus that so

01:08:31 that whole

01:08:34 the whole moving in thing was so she had a

01:08:37 Step mom that was kind of crazy

01:08:40 um, and there I don't know there was weird stuff where I you know, supposedly she wasn't allowed to see her step that's

01:08:48 Her knows her biological mom

01:08:50 um

01:08:52 She wasn't allowed to see her because of some I don't know something that happened in the past

01:08:55 They her parents got a divorce, but she would still she's like, oh i'm going to see my mother this weekend

01:09:01 She's gonna buy me some stuff

01:09:02 um in that mother, you know, she was

01:09:04 Had money. I don't know if it was her own or her husband's. Um, she was going to buy the house for us

01:09:10 And it was just that like that was not a good situation to be in

01:09:15 Okay, and how much did your mother know about all of this when you started dating your high school girlfriend

01:09:29 Um, I I would say my mother knew

01:09:32 Most of it like while it was happening maybe not like the day I found out but maybe soon afterwards

01:09:40 We we had talked about most most of those things

01:09:46 And did she say right away this is not a good situation or or how long did that take

01:09:52 Yeah, I mean she was like, oh that's not good. Yeah

01:09:56 Yeah

01:09:58 Right, but you you didn't listen to her then either right

01:10:04 Well, not at first I mean I did at the point where I said you dated for a year or two

01:10:12 Please god almighty right but stop wasting time. You dated her for a year or two

01:10:17 Your mother said at the beginning don't date her

01:10:19 I mean that that instance, you know with the whole

01:10:23 No, I didn't listen to her at first but like no no

01:10:26 That's not at first when you date someone in your mid in your teens for a year or two

01:10:30 I mean in other words you didn't break up

01:10:35 With the girl because your mother because you listened to your mother you broke up with the girl because of other reasons, right?

01:10:42 Right. Okay

01:10:45 So you didn't listen to her

01:10:47 You didn't date the woman when your mother said don't date the girl and you didn't break up with her

01:10:52 Because your mother said something because your mother had already said something at the beginning, right?

01:10:55 Right, so you didn't listen to her. Can we again? I'm just trying to beg you to have a sorry

01:11:00 I'm, sorry, I guess I I

01:11:04 I'm, sorry

01:11:06 No, you like you go to this fog place

01:11:08 Well, not at first it's like it's one to two years

01:11:19 So you you have this place you go where you kind of disintegrate or like you're trying to disintegrate the other person, right

01:11:26 Which means

01:11:33 You don't take clear feedback

01:11:35 And this is probably from yourself like you don't have this habit with me. Like we're just starting to talk, right?

01:11:41 We just meet and breathe for the first time

01:11:43 So you have this habit with yourself, right?

01:11:48 Yeah, is that right?

01:11:50 Oh, yeah

01:11:51 My self-dialogue is a lot like this

01:11:53 Well this well complicated. Well that well the other right?

01:11:57 Yeah

01:12:00 there's

01:12:02 So many different factors at play and it's all kind of massive and murky and machinery and right is that right? Yeah

01:12:08 Yeah, yeah

01:12:11 Well, that's what happens when you don't live off principles and empiricism and i'm not saying you don't at all, right?

01:12:16 You're successful in your career. So you have empiricism

01:12:19 And principles there, right?

01:12:22 I mean, I assume that when you're at work and somebody asks you to do something you don't give these kinds of nonsense non-answers, right?

01:12:28 Right, is that right?

01:12:31 Oh, right, right. So you're decisive and you're empirical and you're principled at work, right?

01:12:36 Yeah, and that's what's working in your life. Do I do I understand this correctly?

01:12:40 Yes, yeah

01:12:43 But then you're not principled and not

01:12:46 Decisive and not empirical in your love life and that's not that's what's not working, right?

01:12:51 Right, okay good. So we we understand that right? So as best as you can don't fuck me. Okay, okay

01:13:00 Right because you have this like if if I say something that's blindingly obvious

01:13:06 My mother told me not to date this woman

01:13:09 I dated her for another year or two and then broke up with her for unreasons unrelated to what my mother said, right?

01:13:16 Right, right. So that's obvious, right? So when I say if you say

01:13:20 My mother told me not to date her I went ahead and dated her anyway, and I say so you didn't listen to your mother

01:13:27 That's obvious, isn't it?

01:13:31 Yeah, right like it's okay, you know

01:13:36 If I say, uh

01:13:39 Don't join the merchant marines and you go and join the merchant marines and then quit two years later because you got injured

01:13:45 And someone says well, I guess you didn't listen to staff and it's like well

01:13:49 I kind of did because I did eventually quit the merchant marines. It's like but not because of what I said

01:13:54 Right, right, that's all i'm begging you for here

01:13:58 Okay, so who lets you get away with this stuff

01:14:04 And and again i'm not saying you're doing anything bad or sinister or anything like that but who

01:14:13 Who just nods when you go to fog land who just like yeah, that's yeah, okay

01:14:17 Um

01:14:22 I I don't know everybody because no one's really

01:14:25 No one really brings it up like you do

01:14:29 Okay

01:14:33 So

01:14:35 When you were dating the polyamory girl

01:14:38 And your mother said don't do it. It's gross. It's weird. It's bad. It's unhealthy

01:14:43 Did she follow up? Did she say what's happening with the polyamory girl? Are you still doing it or like?

01:14:47 Or was it like a one and done conversation

01:14:52 Um

01:14:56 It wasn't one and done I mean the the kind of like

01:15:00 She she would check in, you know, i'm like how is what's going on? Um,

01:15:08 But she

01:15:12 That that was about it. You know, that was really the a major comment. I guess it was kind of a one and done

01:15:17 as far as like the depth of

01:15:20 What was going on?

01:15:23 And did you keep her updated and say now the polyamory girl where i'm supposed to be the primary boyfriend

01:15:29 Now she spends the high quality time, which is the weekends with the other guy

01:15:33 No, so why why wouldn't you

01:15:40 I'm trying to figure out how close you are to your mom because this is the fundamental question, right?

01:15:43 Right

01:15:47 I mean, you don't listen to her advice. You don't keep her updated on essential developments in your relationships, right?

01:15:53 And she doesn't call you out on the fog stuff, right?

01:15:55 Yeah, so i'm i'm just trying to figure out how how are you close

01:16:01 Okay, so you you're hidden from her because she was asking you about the polyamorous relationship and you hid from her

01:16:10 That you've been delegated. Uh, you've been you've been

01:16:13 Derogated, uh to to second tier right because I mean weekend is top tier, right?

01:16:19 Oh, yeah

01:16:22 So you lied to her and you hid things from her in something which you had already involved her in right?

01:16:27 Yeah

01:16:30 So why do you lie to your mother and hide things from her? I mean, I know this sounds like some big critical thing again

01:16:35 It's just general curiosity

01:16:38 no, I I mean I would agree I I do that and I

01:16:40 I don't feel like this answer, but I don't know

01:16:45 Well, you do you do know obviously, you know, we can go through the ritual if you want

01:16:51 I know you you know, it's coming so I i'm aware of that

01:16:53 But okay, so why why do you lie to your mother and get things from her after involving her in the situation I I

01:17:02 I guess

01:17:07 Maybe it's it's like a a form of embarrassment like i'm embarrassed to be in that situation

01:17:13 And

01:17:18 Maybe maybe I I know that sometimes I

01:17:21 Will kind of assume

01:17:24 I know what she's gonna say or I know, you know

01:17:26 A lot of times I don't talk to my stepdad because I kind of like I know what he's gonna say

01:17:30 Well, and that's like that's fine. I mean you also know to some degree what i'm gonna say, but we're still talking, right?

01:17:37 So it's not that knowing what someone is going to say is not it in particular

01:17:41 I mean if

01:17:44 You know what someone's going to say and you don't respect

01:17:47 What they have to say

01:17:50 Then it wouldn't be a productive conversation if I understand this correctly

01:17:53 Yeah

01:17:56 And when did this habit start if you remember with your mother

01:18:05 Um

01:18:07 Maybe

01:18:13 It was probably around you know around high school, you know, I was doing

01:18:18 I was doing bad things, but just uh doing things I didn't

01:18:22 Uh, what?

01:18:25 Well, no, I so I so

01:18:28 When growing up my mother was pretty

01:18:34 I guess strict, you know as far as

01:18:36 um

01:18:39 Wanted want a lot of a lot of communication, you know, like around that age I was going to

01:18:45 Hang out with friends a lot

01:18:48 And she was the type of mother to like, okay, you know text me when you're leaving text me when you get there

01:18:52 Text me this and that

01:18:54 um, you know and at the time

01:18:56 i've

01:18:57 You know, it was I guess it was rebellious. Um

01:19:00 Because I would have friends who you know, he was he was the third child. So his parents were

01:19:04 More lenient on him, you know, hey i'm going out. Okay. See you tomorrow kind of thing. So I guess I was jealous

01:19:11 Sorry, okay, so I it was in your mid-teens that you started lying to your mom, right? Yeah

01:19:18 And before that you generally told her the truth

01:19:20 No, actually I you know thinking about it in preschool I was

01:19:29 pretty troublesome I um

01:19:31 would

01:19:33 Like what one time, you know, like one time I stole a thing from a kid, you know

01:19:39 It was like a little knickknack. I didn't I got in trouble for it

01:19:44 um

01:19:45 there

01:19:47 I would

01:19:49 I think I got in trouble for copying homework. I got trouble like one time. I know that's not that major but um

01:19:56 the

01:19:58 I

01:20:00 Got in trouble for like running on the walls that I took a dollar to like hit a kid once

01:20:07 um

01:20:10 So I I I don't know. I did a lot of things that that particular age. Um, and I I didn't do it

01:20:17 after that

01:20:20 Well, so that you could say that's misbehavior but is that the same as lying to your mom

01:20:25 Did you lie to your mom about these things? No, she would be informed by the school wouldn't know

01:20:29 right, but you know when

01:20:32 If just to kind of generalize it like if if she would ask me like hey, did you do this?

01:20:36 I'd be like, you know trying to hide from it. I would say no

01:20:39 Well, like did you okay? So why do you think you?

01:20:43 lied to her

01:20:45 And again, listen, I mean, I understand that's a general human thing and kids do that a lot

01:20:50 So again, this is not some big terrible thing

01:20:52 But why do you think?

01:20:55 You lied to her about these things

01:20:58 Um

01:21:04 Well, I knew but you know it

01:21:07 Early on, you know that in like in kindergarten specifically when I got in trouble I would get

01:21:13 You know spanked and get uh get the belt

01:21:17 I'm sorry, who would give you the belt?

01:21:21 My mom. Oh your mom would beat you with the belt

01:21:24 Yeah

01:21:27 Okay, and how often would that happen?

01:21:30 Um about as often as you know, I got in trouble it wasn't every time but you know if it was okay

01:21:38 So the next question obviously is how often did you get in trouble?

01:21:41 So if i'm right, um

01:21:46 Gosh I

01:21:51 It hard for me to recall but well, I mean every year maybe every month no every six months every week

01:21:56 weekly weekly bi-weekly, I mean it was

01:22:00 Sorry, that means by weekly means like once a week or every two weeks

01:22:04 Like once a week or every two once every two weeks

01:22:08 Okay, so you might get what 30 to 35 beatings with the belt as a little boy every year

01:22:19 Um

01:22:21 Yeah, just and this was only for a year or two

01:22:24 And she those stopped

01:22:27 Oh, do you know why?

01:22:31 No, my my thought is that she

01:22:36 I like

01:22:40 my

01:22:41 my my thought is that she like

01:22:43 I don't know

01:22:46 For lack of a better term knew better or like learned better

01:22:49 they um

01:22:52 from from then we went to other types of

01:22:55 like

01:22:57 You know, I was around that time. I started to get an allowance. So my my punishments were more allowance based, you know

01:23:02 like here's a popsicle per

01:23:04 Dollar you get you get in trouble you lose a popsicle or you do something good you get a you get a popsicle that kind

01:23:10 of thing

01:23:11 Oh, okay. So it wasn't uh verbal aggression. It was

01:23:15 Carrots and sticks. Oh, no, actually not even sticks

01:23:18 Carrots or the withdrawal of carrots so to speak right? Is that is that right?

01:23:22 So she wasn't like verbally aggressive or putting you down in that way

01:23:25 No, um there there there would be sometimes where she would

01:23:34 Yell and get and get mad

01:23:37 um

01:23:45 Um

01:23:46 I I I wonder if maybe sometimes that

01:23:49 You know, maybe she was stressed from work or something else and you know, maybe stressed from her own relationship

01:23:56 Oh, so we're going through excuses here

01:24:00 No, i'm because it doesn't sound like she gave you a lot of excuses when you were a child

01:24:05 Right did she say oh well you didn't do well on the test but you know

01:24:11 Your father left or you're stressed for this or that the other or you didn't get as much sleep or right?

01:24:17 Did she give you excuses? Right?

01:24:19 No, okay. So if you don't give excuses, you don't get excuses, right?

01:24:23 Yeah

01:24:25 Okay. So what would she say when she was angry and yelling?

01:24:28 Um

01:24:33 They are things like um

01:24:40 Gosh I don't uh, I haven't thought about this in a while. Um thing

01:24:46 I guess like I don't know. I can't believe you've done that. She wouldn't

01:24:53 Oh, I mean there there would be times she would use curse words, but it wasn't

01:24:58 It it wasn't

01:25:01 Berating me. Um, it's so what's an example?

01:25:08 Oh like I yell at me

01:25:10 So like I guess like one one example would be she like she would yell at me on the way home

01:25:15 Like shouldn't be doing I can't believe we did that, you know

01:25:17 um

01:25:18 That's that's wrong behavior

01:25:21 um

01:25:24 And then we'd go home

01:25:26 Once we get home

01:25:27 There there is one time

01:25:29 Sorry, i'm trying to refrain from drifting off there was one time

01:25:35 She yelled at me. She's like i'm so i'm so mad

01:25:38 I

01:25:40 Like I I can't even look at you like just go go into your room

01:25:45 Okay, but none of these uh, sorry you'd mentioned curse words and that's sort of what I was curious about. Okay. Okay. I'll wind out

01:25:52 the curse word because the curse words weren't

01:25:55 I i'm gonna say that they weren't directed at me

01:25:58 It was more so like I can't fucking believe this or I you know, I can't do this shit kind of thing

01:26:03 okay, but she wasn't like

01:26:05 you're stupid you're

01:26:07 uh, you're mad you're selfish you're

01:26:09 No, nothing like that. Okay. And what about your father and stepfather?

01:26:15 Um I

01:26:19 Never really my father never really corrected me on anything. Um

01:26:27 There was one time he's not very confrontational

01:26:33 There was one time he got

01:26:35 Upset I don't I don't know what he was upset about but I just remember one time that he was he seemed upset

01:26:41 about something he

01:26:42 Was kind of short with me about something but it was like sorry when you say your father didn't correct you

01:26:48 I mean all children need correct. Well, right

01:26:51 Yeah, I mean that doesn't to correct a child. This is actually to parent the child

01:26:56 Right, and I guess

01:27:00 So I would I would be with at my father's on the on the weekend

01:27:04 um

01:27:07 And that was it, you know going to dad's house was kind of a vacation

01:27:10 It was a break from from mom's house

01:27:14 Yeah, that's far gland again, so i'm asking you what your father did your father direct you on anything

01:27:20 Don't eat this eat that

01:27:23 Not too much screen time. Uh, you need to get some more exercise. Uh, uh, like

01:27:28 How are things going at school? What's going on with friends? Are you in what courses do you like?

01:27:32 Uh, it can I help you with anything? Uh, did he teach you stuff wisdom knowledge how to interact? How did he like anything?

01:27:40 I I mean we would we would talk about you know, like hey, how like how's school doing or what?

01:27:48 like what are you doing, but

01:27:50 He

01:27:55 It wasn't no, I mean he never really

01:27:57 I'm trying to think

01:28:04 My like like sam, but all pretty much the majority of my upbringing is through my mother, you know all the but what about your stepdad?

01:28:11 He he taught me stuff

01:28:16 You know, I don't mean practical things like fishing or whatever right but moral lessons or life lessons or communication lessons or

01:28:24 Virtue lessons on virtue or integrity or what?

01:28:27 Um

01:28:30 My my my stepdad definitely would has taught me more of those things than my actual dad

01:28:35 um

01:28:38 You know, he would he would tell me teach me things of

01:28:42 How you know how how to be a man kind of things how to

01:28:47 Um

01:28:51 Yeah stuff like that, but again it was I was I was mom's kid and

01:28:57 Do you know like all of the all of the correcting and like parenting was was through mom?

01:29:04 That's how that relation that's how that was set

01:29:07 Sorry, he taught you how to be a man

01:29:10 But well parenting was through your mom, i'm sorry i'm just trying i'm maybe something right no and but i'm well, I guess that's that's them

01:29:21 I guess that's to say like that's the most that i've got what was what he

01:29:25 That I got from him

01:29:28 And what was his what were his lessons about how to be a man your stepfather?

01:29:32 So I guess your dad was just um, I don't know. It's like being raised. Yeah toddler or something, but uh,

01:29:36 Your stepdad what were his lessons?

01:29:39 Well

01:29:43 of course different practical things, uh, sorry practical things, uh, but as as far as like the abstracts like

01:29:50 Um

01:29:52 Uh, he he definitely helped me get out of my shell

01:30:05 And I know I he helped he was he was tougher on me

01:30:11 Um

01:30:14 In the sense too because he could see that I was a shy kid and whatnot so he

01:30:20 He he worked on me to break to like break me on my out of my shell and and sorry, I know that's fake. Um

01:30:26 So he taught me

01:30:30 Being more

01:30:35 Um

01:30:38 Gosh i'm

01:30:41 So

01:30:43 Well, it's good that you're noticing when you go to far glen that's that's a big step up

01:30:59 Yeah, sorry, and I I don't know how

01:31:05 I don't how do I avoid that?

01:31:09 No, no, what what did you what did your stepfather teach you about being a man and i'm not

01:31:14 I mean, i'm not skeptical. I'm I just want to know

01:31:17 I I see he taught me more about being stern

01:31:28 Um

01:31:37 I mean one definition of manhood would be you don't date a woman who cucks you with another guy

01:31:41 Yeah, so i'm trying to i'm trying to figure out what and you said well i'm still shy and right

01:31:48 So i'm trying to figure out what you learned that had you do the things that you do

01:31:52 Either he didn't teach you or he taught or you didn't listen or he taught you the entirely

01:31:57 wrong things

01:31:59 I mean one of the least manly things

01:32:03 To do is to share the woman you really care about with some other guy some other stud who's gonna

01:32:09 Screw her brains out on the weekends, right while you just drum your fingers and wait for monday to roll around, right?

01:32:14 So if this is you with the instruction from your stepfather on how to be a man

01:32:19 I'm again a little baffled

01:32:22 Well, I I never told him about

01:32:25 that

01:32:26 Any of that he definitely think that was

01:32:29 Do you think it matters that you told him?

01:32:32 No

01:32:34 No, if you'd learned how to be a man you wouldn't have done polyamory second tier cuck

01:32:39 Yeah, whether you told him or not is irrelevant

01:32:43 Am I wrong

01:32:53 No

01:32:56 And he taught you how to be what direct and stern and

01:32:58 Then why are you still so indirect?

01:33:02 and i'm not criticizing you i'm just

01:33:04 If somebody says this guy taught me how to or and you're putting the wrong end in the water I have questions

01:33:10 Yeah good news because if you weren't taught this stuff

01:33:15 Then it makes sense that you didn't do it if you were taught it

01:33:17 And you went ahead and did like if you were taught how to be a man and then you got cucked by some guy on

01:33:22 the weekends

01:33:24 That would be a bigger problem in my view. Yeah, right

01:33:31 So, what are you what are you feeling at the moment

01:33:33 I

01:33:41 I feel like there's a lot I I never learned I have which is fantastic news

01:33:51 Yeah, right

01:33:55 Yeah, I mean there's a lot to explain and

01:33:59 Sorry, go ahead

01:34:01 was

01:34:02 just more more there's more so that I

01:34:06 Realize I haven't learned, you know, I I knew there are things I never learned but i'm trying to figure that out on my own

01:34:12 But you know, and I felt like I recognized certain things but talking, you know, I guess, you know, I didn't

01:34:18 Never learned any of it

01:34:21 And you said that there were times when you didn't lie to your mother right or lied less

01:34:29 Because I remember you saying your teens right you were doing a lot of stuff that was quote bad and

01:34:33 You lied to your mother about it. And then you you said also when you were younger, but were there times where you lied less?

01:34:38 Um

01:34:43 yeah, or just

01:34:45 I mean, I I wasn't

01:34:47 I wasn't doing bad things. It it was just like if if

01:34:52 You know, I was at a friend's house and we went begging, you know, I didn't tell him, you know

01:34:57 I wasn't you know, if I stayed at a friend's house, I wasn't supposed to go anywhere else

01:35:01 But if we went somewhere else like we went to the park or or I did this thing and go egging, you know

01:35:07 I didn't tell her that okay, so I mean egging is pretty minor, right?

01:35:11 Yeah

01:35:14 I mean were there more important things that you didn't tell her the truth about?

01:35:18 No

01:35:22 Okay. Now do you think that your mother knows when you're telling her the truth or does not know?

01:35:27 When you lie

01:35:29 I think I think she

01:35:32 I

01:35:35 I don't I don't want to say that she doesn't know but I think she trusts me. She trusts that I would

01:35:41 Tell her the truth

01:35:45 And is she right to do that?

01:35:48 No

01:35:55 So she trusts you when she maybe shouldn't at times, right?

01:35:58 Yeah, okay and

01:36:03 Does she trust you because she believes you're telling the truth or does she trust you because she doesn't know

01:36:11 But that's a default position

01:36:14 I think she she trusts me because she trusts that I

01:36:19 Am doing the right thing

01:36:24 She

01:36:25 She you know doing and telling these are two separate categories

01:36:29 right

01:36:31 so with regards to

01:36:33 Does your mother trust you?

01:36:35 Because she believes that you're telling the truth to her or because she just trusts you as a default and it doesn't

01:36:41 Doesn't she doesn't know the difference or notice the difference?

01:36:43 I think because she believes because she believes one thing

01:36:49 Okay, so your mother is not particularly good at figuring out truth from falsehood, is that right?

01:36:55 Yeah in her son, I I would I would agree yeah, I mean, okay, sorry go ahead I could well

01:37:05 No, I mean I think if she she can tell like if I don't I don't know if this relates

01:37:13 But like she she can tell like if I'm in a bad mood or something like she can tell if something's wrong with me

01:37:19 um

01:37:21 but she

01:37:22 will trust

01:37:24 she trusts that I will talk to her if

01:37:26 I have an issue if i'm going through something or

01:37:30 Okay now have you told your parents

01:37:39 All three of them I guess have you told your parents

01:37:41 That you want to get married and have children

01:37:44 Yeah, and when did you first tell them that

01:37:49 um

01:37:51 Um

01:37:55 Probably why it's so it's been one of those things where it's kind of assumed, you know

01:38:04 When you're going through like that's a general life thing, but it was I expressed explicitly brought up, you know

01:38:10 definitely

01:38:12 after college

01:38:14 Okay, so like for eight years give or take

01:38:18 You have been you've had the explicit goal of getting married and having children

01:38:22 That you you told your parents about that. And again, I know there could be some fog here and there but it's been a while

01:38:29 No, I I I would say from

01:38:32 From the beginning my mom had always

01:38:37 Talked to me as if you know being a good husband, you know, it was always this idea

01:38:42 Okay, so so and and you so she's wanted you to get married

01:38:48 Since you became an adult, right?

01:38:50 Yeah

01:38:53 Okay, and you have also expressed your desire to her to get married for eight or so years off and on. Yes. Yes

01:39:01 So what steps have your parents done to try and help you achieve the goal that you all want for you

01:39:09 Um, they've encouraged me to

01:39:14 Go out

01:39:16 you know

01:39:18 Meet people. Um, they've suggested people that I go meet, you know for friends of family kind of thing. Um,

01:39:24 They

01:39:30 When I talked to my mom about

01:39:35 Why a different relationships didn't work she would agree that

01:39:40 Like yes, you know you you want to marry and have kids that woman didn't so I agree that you should have broke up with her

01:39:47 Um

01:39:52 Right now she my they're they're helping me. Um

01:39:56 Look for a house, you know, they're giving me a place to stay where I can save up money to buy a house

01:40:09 You know and then in which case so it's either it's either your fault or it's the woman's fault or it's

01:40:16 A lack of housing. That's sort of what i'm getting as to why you're not like according to your parents

01:40:21 That's why you're not married

01:40:23 Um

01:40:29 No, I would say according to them I just I haven't met the right woman yet. Okay. I mean, I just i'm kind of curious

01:40:35 Do they have any self-criticism at all about how they raised you?

01:40:39 As to why maybe you're not married anything

01:40:44 I

01:40:49 I

01:40:50 I think

01:40:52 My mom might have no. No, I don't want to hear it. No. I I know I don't want conjecture and theories

01:40:57 Have I've taken any ownership and said well, you know

01:41:02 I did beat you. Uh, that must have been pretty unpleasant and I I stopped it because I was wrong

01:41:06 But i've never talked to you about it or oh, I don't know. Um, I married a guy who didn't give you any

01:41:12 Education on how to be a man. Uh, I I divorced the guy

01:41:17 uh, and

01:41:19 You you have really haven't had any training on masculinity. I can't provide that as a woman and I didn't ensure

01:41:24 That you got that from your father or from your stepfather

01:41:28 I mean, is there anything that your parents have done that indicates any?

01:41:32 self-ownership

01:41:35 For how they raised you and the problems that might have engendered

01:41:38 in your goal of getting married

01:41:41 No

01:41:44 the

01:41:45 I think the closest would be just a a side comment and a side given of like well, like

01:41:52 I just I I think of

01:41:54 sometimes when talking to my my dad about

01:41:58 Something like this in relationship wise he would say like well, you know, i'm not really probably not the best to give relationship advice

01:42:06 So there's a little bit so but there's no

01:42:09 No, so if nothing also he if he knows he's not the best to give relationship advice

01:42:16 Then shouldn't he make sure that you do have someone who gives you relationship advice?

01:42:21 He would think

01:42:28 Like if a friend of mine says I have this weird lump

01:42:30 On my shoulder and I say listen, i'm not a doctor or a dermatologist. You got to go to a dermatologist

01:42:36 Or a doctor or something, right? Yeah, right

01:42:42 So that's not really helping you right so do your parents say

01:42:56 We have a lot to do with why you're not married and let's talk about that

01:43:00 No

01:43:04 Why not I I don't know

01:43:11 Except you do so we can play this game if you want so why why don't they take any any responsibility, right?

01:43:21 So

01:43:23 Okay, let me ask you this is it a parent's job

01:43:34 To prepare a child for adult relationships

01:43:39 Yes, right have they done that

01:43:44 Successfully prepared for adult relationships

01:43:49 No, okay, it's not funny, right? Right? So they have not

01:43:54 And they won't even acknowledge that they haven't that they failed

01:44:01 Right instead they blame the woman they blame real estate or you right

01:44:07 Yeah

01:44:13 So and the worst thing is in my view you have inherited which is perfectly understandable and I say this with great sympathy

01:44:19 You have inherited an aversion to self-criticism which is why you keep going to fog land

01:44:26 Now the reason that you have inherited an aversion to self-criticism

01:44:32 Is your parents it doesn't seem like to me have any capacity for a self-criticism at all

01:44:39 You

01:44:41 Because you take it all on yourself

01:44:45 And what I see from the outside and correct me if i'm wrong

01:44:49 What I see from the outside is we have an entire family structure

01:44:53 that raised a child

01:44:57 And has as the goal of raising the child a successful adult relationship and this child has gone for 15 years without a successful

01:45:05 Adult relationship and no one's taking responsibility who raised you

01:45:08 Nobody's taking responsibility who advised you

01:45:11 Nobody's saying this goal this plan which is essential for your happiness

01:45:17 Is not being achieved we need to do everything possible to figure out why

01:45:23 No, they're putting their defensiveness above your happiness

01:45:28 Right

01:45:34 The reason that you're not married is not because you haven't met the right person

01:45:37 It's not because you didn't have your own house. It's not because a woman was just this that or the other

01:45:44 The reason you're not married

01:45:51 Is you lack relationship skills in my view?

01:45:53 And I say that with sympathy. I mean, I don't speak japanese. I wasn't raised with japanese

01:45:57 Right, but at least I know I don't speak japanese and if I want to speak japanese, I know what to do

01:46:03 I don't just tell myself I can't I do speak japanese when i'm just speaking gobbledygook, right?

01:46:07 Right. So do you know how to evaluate a potential partner? Do you know how to be assertive in relationships?

01:46:16 Do you know how to both provide value and receive value?

01:46:18 You do in the business world because you're successful right

01:46:23 Right same principles apply

01:46:26 In the dating world

01:46:33 Right because at the age of 30, you know, you're still half mucking about with girls who have boyfriends

01:46:39 Right

01:46:43 And I say this with sympathy so it's been 15 years, uh, let's you know make it as an adult

01:46:50 So 12 years been 12 years

01:46:51 So you've got an entire family structure that should be devoted to helping you achieve

01:46:55 That which brings the greatest happiness, which is love

01:46:59 It hasn't been achieved and the people in charge of the project and your parents are always in charge of the project

01:47:04 Always you can be

01:47:06 70 and they can be 95. They're still in charge of the project

01:47:09 Yeah

01:47:14 So the people in charge of the project

01:47:16 Have failed now. I don't know if you've ever been in the business world where somebody's been in charge of a project

01:47:22 that

01:47:24 Is repeatedly failing and screwing up in every conceivable dimension and all they do is blame others

01:47:29 On

01:47:35 Not in a professional sense no like school project group projects, but yeah

01:47:39 But you can imagine that there would be such a person in the business world

01:47:43 Who they have a job?

01:47:46 And

01:47:48 They keep failing at their job, but it's never their fault. It's the economy. It's the customer. It's the supplier

01:47:55 It's the inflation. It's never even though other people are succeeding in exactly the same environment

01:48:00 They blame every single one of their failures on something external, right?

01:48:04 Now, you know that person's never going to improve right

01:48:08 right

01:48:10 Now sometimes to help our children we need to submit to some pretty scalding self-criticism, right?

01:48:18 Yeah

01:48:19 but that's right that's that's the job because what matters is what helps our children the most and if

01:48:24 Being self-critical helps our children the most then that's what we do right because you're there to help your children

01:48:29 And have has anyone in your parents circle

01:48:34 Surrendered themselves to self-criticism or said, you know, gee i've really been thinking about why things aren't working out for you dating or romantically

01:48:41 And I have some theories. Here's the things I think I did wrong

01:48:44 here's the things that we haven't been helping you with, you know, uh, tell me what you think let's really dig in and

01:48:49 You know if we've got to spend the whole weekend jawboning, let's do that

01:48:53 No, it was never

01:48:57 laid out like that I would say at most it was kind of a fog land conversation where

01:49:02 You know what mom was kind of I you know

01:49:05 I know we maybe didn't have the best, you know situation, but I you know

01:49:10 I did the best we made the best of it kind of thing

01:49:14 Sorry, what this is your mother is she talking about your father?

01:49:18 No, just talking about my upbringing in general

01:49:22 She says we didn't have the best situation

01:49:27 What does that mean

01:49:30 I mean, this was her choice this right she chose to marry your father

01:49:33 She chose to separate from your father. She chose where you lived. She chose to date like what do you mean?

01:49:37 So she completely she self-abdicates. She's just like a leaf on the breeze

01:49:42 Yeah, I guess

01:49:44 Sorry, I guess it's one of these

01:49:47 I'm going crazy because if it's wrong, it's wrong if it's right, it's right, but I guess it's just

01:49:51 That's but that's what that that's what she said

01:49:55 Okay, so the so if she says we weren't in the best situation

01:50:00 Yeah, listen if if you and I are flying across the andes and we crash

01:50:07 And you know, we have to eat people

01:50:10 We're not in the best situation

01:50:12 right

01:50:14 But who you choose to marry and have children with and separate from that's all choice. That's all chosen. Those are all choices

01:50:21 That's not a situation

01:50:23 Right. Does that make sense?

01:50:25 Yeah

01:50:28 You know if if some guy

01:50:31 Goes to gets his friend and they go to rob a bank and then they're pinned down by a SWAT team

01:50:37 And he says well, I I guess this isn't the best situation. It's like you chose to rob the bank

01:50:41 Right

01:50:45 What does your mother refer to what is she referring to when she says we're not in the best situation

01:50:54 Um

01:50:58 She

01:51:00 She I guess she she never liked the idea of

01:51:11 She she doesn't like not being married to to stepdad no, but when you know

01:51:26 That's more now I assume or maybe was it back then too

01:51:28 I I don't I don't know about

01:51:32 Initial like when I was a kid, but I I know no no, but you do know you must know what she's referring

01:51:38 Sorry, you must know what she's referring to not the best situation

01:51:41 as a kid, I

01:51:44 Um

01:51:47 I mean, I mean it like I said it was like one of those fog land conversations where it's a lot is

01:51:56 You know, she okay. All right. So if you don't know you don't know now, um

01:52:01 Let me uh, let me ask you this

01:52:04 Do you think that you have any habits?

01:52:07 Around fogging and passivity

01:52:11 Yeah, I mean i'm

01:52:19 I'm doing it right now. I think so right a little bit rubber bones a little bit fogging right now

01:52:24 Do you know when your mother says when your mother says it wasn't the best situation, but we did the best we could

01:52:29 Who is the we she's referring to there

01:52:33 Her and myself right so she's equating you and her

01:52:39 So she's always it's always been like sorry go ahead

01:52:43 No, it's it's it's always been like

01:52:46 there's always been this

01:52:48 And talk of like it's you and me

01:52:53 Well, but she's the mother so there is no we with regards to circumstances because she chooses the circumstances you don't

01:53:00 Yeah, right. So if she's trying to bind you and her together

01:53:05 Oh you and me against the world you and me we had to survive this you and me we had to but we did the best

01:53:11 We could right so she's

01:53:12 Making an equation there, right?

01:53:14 That you and she have the same level

01:53:17 of willpower and

01:53:21 You

01:53:23 Choices and effect on on life, right

01:53:26 right

01:53:28 So either you had as much choice as she did and you were equal in which case

01:53:33 You should have been able to beat her with a belt if she did something you didn't like but that never happened, right?

01:53:38 So she has perfect authority when it comes to to

01:53:40 abusing you

01:53:43 She has perfect authority, but

01:53:45 If you have any criticisms, oh, it's you and me honey. We're equals

01:53:50 Right

01:53:52 But you weren't equals she was the mother she was fully in charge

01:54:02 She determined the entire circumstances of your childhood

01:54:06 And she

01:54:10 Beat you dozens of times when you displeased her

01:54:12 And she punished you thereafter with money and other goodies

01:54:19 Mm-hmm, so you weren't equals

01:54:22 See

01:54:27 All of this all of this the reason i've been talking to you about this stuff for so long is all of this

01:54:32 Is based on the fundamental question?

01:54:34 Should I take care of my mother? Is that right?

01:54:36 Correct, okay. So my question is did she parent?

01:54:41 And parenting means

01:54:47 Putting the needs of your children first doing things to benefit them

01:54:49 regardless of personal discomfort

01:54:53 I mean if there was a newborn and the mom said oh, I don't want to get up

01:54:57 I'm, just gonna put earplugs in and shut my door and I don't want to get up because i'm tired

01:55:03 We would say that's a bad mother, right?

01:55:06 Right because she's not feeding the child who desperately needs food because it would be uncomfortable for her, right?

01:55:12 Right, so that that's not parenting

01:55:15 Right

01:55:17 So did your mother I mean doesn't sound like your two fathers did much parenting

01:55:27 Did your mother

01:55:32 parent you

01:55:33 Did she engage with you? Did she learn about you? Did she?

01:55:36 Stimulate the best within you did she make sacrifices for you?

01:55:40 Even if those sacrifices include personal discomfort and self-criticism

01:55:43 Has she put your needs first does she devote herself to your well-being?

01:55:47 Is she willing to do whatever it takes to help you achieve happiness? Even if this means turning laser eyes on herself?

01:55:53 Did she teach you virtues principles practicalities how to think why be good did she teach you

01:56:02 Everything that she learned from her own mistakes

01:56:06 Did she teach you all the red flags that you need to see that she maybe didn't see in your father?

01:56:11 Did she instruct you on how to live

01:56:15 Did she teach you how to be safe?

01:56:17 Did she teach you who you should give your heart to and you who you should keep your heart distant from?

01:56:20 Was she wise did she transfer those virtues and that wisdom to you so that you can stride confidently in life

01:56:30 With the best possible instruction that she's capable of

01:56:34 You

01:56:36 That's apparent, I mean, you know

01:56:44 And I know she didn't I know that the parents didn't because you're calling me

01:56:49 And you were untutored as far as I can see

01:57:00 and so you're just kind of feeling your way along and

01:57:03 You don't listen to your mother because she doesn't have any credibility for you because the way that you gain credibility is to do

01:57:09 What is difficult?

01:57:11 I mean nobody says to me steph. You're an excellent walker

01:57:14 Walking isn't that difficult right now? Maybe if I injured my leg and right had to go through rehab or oh good walking or whatever

01:57:21 right, but

01:57:22 Your mother takes the easy path if there's criticism

01:57:25 She just fogs and pretends that you were just two people struggling against difficult forces in the world brother and sister like I don't know

01:57:31 like a toddler

01:57:33 Your father gave you no instruction and your mother didn't say listen, you've got to give him instruction

01:57:38 Your father just kind of flaked out and faded out. Well, maybe not the best person to go. Right?

01:57:43 Well, you should have learned from that

01:57:46 Even if you're a fat guy you can say to people don't do what I do and here's what I did and here's what I didn't

01:57:51 Learn and here's right

01:57:53 Here's the mistakes i'm making so you can at least learn how to avoid those

01:57:56 But your father just kind of flaked out, right?

01:57:59 Yeah

01:58:03 And you didn't share some essential information about dating and so on with your stepfather, right?

01:58:07 Because you knew what he was going to say and what he was going to say was going to be useless

01:58:12 Am I wrong right

01:58:21 So you're untutored you're unparented to a large degree

01:58:24 Yeah, so if you don't respect your parents, why would you want to become a parent?

01:58:35 If you think that this is good parenting, why would you want to become a parent?

01:58:50 Why would you want to voluntarily step into a role

01:58:52 Populated by people you don't respect who didn't really do much parenting at all at the moral level

01:58:58 Like why would you want to do that? Why would you why would that be a high goal for you?

01:59:03 Parenting is mealy mouth self-justification

01:59:07 Manipulation falsehood and the avoidance of all personal responsibility while inflicting significant punishments on your children

01:59:14 How's that for a job description? You want that job?

01:59:19 And but I didn't I didn't want to do all that

01:59:21 I wanted to I want to learn from all that

01:59:27 Okay, okay, no, no, no, no, no how much of this is news to you how much of what i'm saying is new to you

01:59:38 It's not and it's not new. I I do know I do know and this has been in the back of my head. I i've

01:59:45 Just been afraid to why don't you tell me when i'm going through all of this work? I already know this stuff

01:59:51 I'm not not criticizing. I'm just genuinely curious, right?

01:59:58 well, it's

02:00:00 I

02:00:01 I guess trying to explain all the backstory and whatnot and

02:00:04 hard to

02:00:07 I don't know hard to

02:00:09 You get put on the spot

02:00:13 Yeah, that's more excuses. All right, so I know listen, I know you don't know this stuff

02:00:18 I know you don't know this stuff

02:00:22 How do I know

02:00:25 Um from what I told you well, that's very generic and a non-answer I don't how do you know

02:00:35 I'm sorry. I'm just gonna wait for all that background noise to stop. Sorry

02:00:41 I'm, I I have to move my car but it's not starting. Oh, okay. Listen. No, take your time

02:00:46 I don't want you to be distracted while you drive. So

02:00:48 Pretend i'm not here and just let me know when you're done, but don't don't feel any stress or worry

02:00:54 Just focus on your driving and be safe

02:00:56 okay, um

02:00:58 I'll just mute here and just i'll just mute here and then you tell me when

02:01:02 Uh when you're done, okay. Yeah, no rush. No rush at all. Take your time

02:01:06 Thanks

02:01:08 All right, are we back

02:01:10 Hi, yeah, i'm so sorry about no, that's fine. Don't worry about it. Don't worry about it. Okay, so yes, so

02:01:15 Why do I think or rather? How do I know?

02:01:18 That you do know all of these things or that you don't know many of these things at least consciously

02:01:25 About how unparented you are

02:01:29 Well, is it

02:01:33 Sorry, go ahead

02:01:34 Oh, is it because I because I called and asked or asked a separate question, but

02:01:38 Well again, that's very uh, very generic

02:01:43 All right. So this is the message that you sent me

02:01:46 And i'm not sort of reading this to catch you out or anything like that

02:01:50 I'm, just telling you this is the sort of evidence. Oh sure

02:01:52 Sure a couple years ago. I moved out west for a job and sense of adventure

02:01:57 However, the living situation out there as well as the company worked well

02:01:59 We're not ideal a couple years later moved back home to be closer to family and live in a more affordable area

02:02:04 I recognize my duty as a single child to take care of my mother in her later years

02:02:08 So you feel a very grave sense of obligation to your mother because she mothered you right

02:02:16 She parented you

02:02:19 I mean if you had a guy who was a sperm donor, let's just take an extreme example, right?

02:02:25 If you had a guy who was a sperm donor

02:02:31 Then would you feel obligated to take care of him in his old age

02:02:34 No, well, why not I mean he's your father

02:02:40 But he he wouldn't have physically done anything for my caretaking for my upbringing

02:02:49 So he didn't parent you

02:02:53 right

02:02:59 So if you

02:03:01 If your parents had been great and wonderful and involved and caring

02:03:06 Then when they got older and I know people like this, so i'm not speaking out of my armpit

02:03:12 If your parents were great and wonderful and nice and thoughtful and had raised you well

02:03:16 And you were happily married and and so on then when they got older and they needed some help

02:03:21 I mean, I think in general you'd say well, yeah, i'll do that

02:03:24 I mean i'm so grateful to them and I love them so much and I want to make their

02:03:28 lives as comfortable as possible

02:03:30 And you would do that and you wouldn't

02:03:32 Call me, right

02:03:36 Right, so why are you calling me?

02:03:39 Because part of you doesn't want to do it

02:03:43 Yeah, right

02:03:46 Yeah now so everyone's going to tell you all about all the obligations and your parents and they did this and they did that

02:03:52 And you owe them this everyone's going to tell you that

02:03:57 But doesn't really mean anything

02:03:59 Right, right. So what i'm interested in

02:04:02 It's the part of you that doesn't want to now what we can do

02:04:06 Of course and what a lot of people do is they say oh well, but you should just want to you know

02:04:10 It's obligation. They did this they did that and you just have to right all this stuff, right?

02:04:15 Right, but that's not philosophy that's just manipulative guilty, right?

02:04:21 right

02:04:24 So what i'm interested in is okay. So this guy doesn't want to do this part to take care of his

02:04:29 Aging mother. Is that right?

02:04:33 Um, yeah, I mean she she's not elderly she she's in her 50s, uh, but you know, it's it's coming

02:04:43 Okay, but she also has she has uh, effectively she has a husband, right?

02:04:51 Yes, so i'm trying to figure out why that would be on you

02:04:54 Right

02:05:01 And again, i'm happy to hear right but she has someone to take care of her

02:05:04 So i'm sort of trying to figure out when I get these kinds of messages, right?

02:05:08 I'm to tell you sort of my thinking i'm trying to figure out why uh,

02:05:11 Why why is this on you?

02:05:15 Um

02:05:20 Well, I know I get when

02:05:23 This is what pops into my head when I initially left to go out west. Um,

02:05:29 So my my parents had coven they went through all that

02:05:34 and I

02:05:37 Was the one that was taking, you know, my stepdad

02:05:39 Was in the hospital, but my mom was at home. I was the one that was taking care of her

02:05:44 So when I brought up that I wanted to leave

02:05:47 Uh, my stepdad said that like, you know, who's basically saying like who's gonna take care of us, you know, like

02:05:52 Oh, yes, we're both down and out

02:05:55 Yeah, and what does that mean take care of them? I mean, they're in their 50s. I'm in my 50s. I'm in my late 50s

02:06:01 Right. I mean so help me understand

02:06:03 What your stepfather was it your father or your stepfather your stepfather, right?

02:06:07 Stepfather, okay. So what what what do you what did your stepfather mean? I'm like who's gonna take care of us

02:06:16 Yeah, just when if they're both, you know, like in that situation they were like one was hospitalized the other was bedridden

02:06:23 the only person

02:06:26 That could take care of them was me

02:06:28 You know the only person I don't

02:06:30 Sorry, I don't just like I know. I'm sorry. I don't I don't understand

02:06:33 The only person that could take care of them is you what does that mean?

02:06:36 To

02:06:41 I mean there's there's nurses there's doctors there's in-home care. There's all sorts of people who know

02:06:46 Take care of the nurses the hospital turned my mom away. They wanted nothing to do with her

02:06:52 What why?

02:06:54 Hospitals are allowed legally to turn people away as far as I know

02:06:57 Well, that's that's it because it was it was covid, you know, they they took okay. So the once in in in

02:07:05 a thousand years pandemic

02:07:07 Right

02:07:10 What would that have to do with anything?

02:07:12 It's it's it's the fact that

02:07:18 They got they got a severe illness. Uh-huh

02:07:22 And needed assistance they needed someone else other than the two of them

02:07:28 To make sure they're doing okay. Okay. So do they are they not part are they part of a church or

02:07:37 No, are they part of a community?

02:07:40 they I mean they have

02:07:43 yeah, they have family members, but I I guess i'm thinking more in the lines of if

02:07:48 They're I don't know if they all die, you know, and it's just them or I

02:07:55 I'm, sorry if who all dies

02:07:59 The you know, the supposed family members that would take care of take care of them if they're in a situation

02:08:06 I'm sorry. I'm really trying to sort of so if there's a mass extinction event, is that

02:08:11 No, but say, you know

02:08:16 Again sorry, i'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm just trying to understand what the scenario is here

02:08:25 well, I sorry and I I apologize i'm trying to

02:08:31 Give a situation without being too general like give my situation and no no, this is your without your stepfather's

02:08:38 issue, right

02:08:41 Yeah, okay, so i'm trying to figure out

02:08:43 Why

02:08:47 You doesn't have any other

02:08:49 Oh, sorry. Well, he he doesn't have any other children or any any like I am i'm babe. I'm his only

02:08:56 Son

02:09:00 Why um, why didn't why didn't he have any other children do you know I don't know

02:09:06 Uh, and and how old were you when he came into your life

02:09:12 They started dating I was

02:09:15 It was around like preschool kindergarten

02:09:19 So when they started dating, it was really serious, you know, and he moved in

02:09:23 Uh

02:09:27 Maybe grade school

02:09:29 Yeah

02:09:31 Okay, and they've been together since then sorry did he want more children with your mother is that right?

02:09:37 I don't think so that I I don't know. I don't that never came up. Um

02:09:45 My I know that my mom she told me once like when having me she only wanted one kid. So I don't I imagine that

02:09:53 She didn't want another one

02:09:57 okay, so

02:09:59 They had only one child and they chose not to have more children together, right?

02:10:03 Yeah, okay. So they saved a huge amount of money by not having say two or three kids, right?

02:10:09 Right. Okay. So they saved a huge amount of money by not having a bunch of kids

02:10:14 and so they should take that money and

02:10:16 Make sure that they have it set aside for

02:10:19 when they get old

02:10:22 right so that they can hire the kind of

02:10:24 Care that they need because I mean what are the odds if if they're if there's that kind of medical catastrophe

02:10:29 What are you supposed to do? You're not a doctor

02:10:32 Like they they need home care. They need right. They need all of that stuff, right?

02:10:36 I mean if you if you only have one kid, you know kids cost

02:10:40 I don't know depends on where you are or whatever estimates there are that's going on but

02:10:43 Kids cost at least a couple hundred thousand dollars to raise right and and they chose so let's say they they saved themselves half a million

02:10:52 dollars

02:10:54 um 30 years ago, so they invest that half a million dollars or something like that and

02:10:58 Then that money grows or you know, maybe you talk to them about crypto. I don't know right?

02:11:04 so then they they have more than enough money for being taken care of by professionals not

02:11:09 You right because because you got a life to live to live. You've got a life to lead

02:11:15 You you have a woman to meet you have children to raise you have a career you're gonna have to travel

02:11:23 So i'm i'm not quite sure I understand

02:11:26 The the problem sorry, sorry to be obtuse

02:11:30 I mean do they have money? No

02:11:33 um, no, not not really I mean my

02:11:38 Stepdad, you know, we're I guess you I think it's called working class, you know, we're not he he was able to buy

02:11:48 a house in a in a nice area early on

02:11:53 You know, and so he he has wealth in that sense and oh, okay

02:11:57 So that's good so he can sell the house they can move to a smaller place

02:12:00 Which they don't need a big house, obviously so he can sell the house and he can use that for

02:12:04 His medical and and care expenses right and we're probably talking at least 20 years from now right there in their 50s

02:12:11 Yeah

02:12:15 So again i'm i'm

02:12:17 Not seeing is it are they still working your parents? Oh

02:12:22 Yeah, yeah, they're still working. Okay, so they're working they're saving

02:12:25 Uh, they've had their entire life to work. They've saved a whole bunch of money, you know

02:12:29 There are lots of working-class families. I know them they have four or five or six children

02:12:34 Your parents had only one so they saved a lot of money

02:12:39 And of course as parents

02:12:44 They would be responsible right and they would say listen the last thing we want to do

02:12:49 Is to burden our son when he's in the process of marrying and raising children

02:12:54 The last thing we'd ever want to do is burden our son

02:12:56 with expenses and time

02:12:59 right

02:13:01 So we absolutely have to set aside

02:13:03 money and resources

02:13:06 To take care of all of that right? There's just I mean disability insurance will pay you if you get disabled or old

02:13:11 There's of course death benefits if somebody were to die

02:13:15 Uh, so i'm sure that they've got insurance and and you know

02:13:18 All of the basic things that responsible parents do to make sure that they're not a burden to their children, right?

02:13:22 Right, do you know if they have disability insurance?

02:13:27 No, they don't what do you mean

02:13:31 They don't they don't have disability insurance

02:13:35 Not that i'm aware of

02:13:38 I mean, I know that's that's a shame really insurance, but they should get disability insurance, shouldn't they?

02:13:45 Uh, yeah, I guess probably

02:13:47 What do you mean? I know they have probably I know they have general

02:13:50 Like general health insurance. I don't think they have anything specific like that

02:13:54 But isn't isn't i'm sorry your your your stepfather is very concerned about being disabled, right?

02:14:02 Yeah, or at least at the time when he brought that up, okay, well

02:14:08 I'll be fucking here again

02:14:11 Oh god

02:14:13 No, see if he's not worried about it now, why are we talking?

02:14:16 If there's no concern about it now, are we fucking again?

02:14:19 No

02:14:22 Because you know, I I don't have infinite patience for this stuff i've got to get on with my day too, right

02:14:27 Sure. So your father is your stepfather is very concerned about being disabled, right?

02:14:33 So because if you're very concerned about being disabled

02:14:35 Then you would say

02:14:38 Just I mean he would know about insurance, right?

02:14:41 Right, so he'd get disability insurance

02:14:44 Now if he didn't get disability insurance, okay. Well, then he can just go and buy it now, right?

02:14:49 Right and then they'll be taken care of uh bills and and income and in-home care and all of that will be

02:14:58 Will be taken care of right?

02:15:01 Right am I wrong

02:15:04 No, so why wouldn't you I mean why wouldn't you just tell them that

02:15:10 If you're concerned about health issues

02:15:13 Then you you need to get some disability insurance now

02:15:16 That doesn't mean you won't care doesn't mean you won't help out or whatever

02:15:21 but you can't what are you are you supposed to put your whole life on hold because

02:15:24 Your parents who are in their 50s might might get unwell

02:15:28 Yeah, I I

02:15:35 That was the that was the dilemma I had

02:15:39 that was the like you said, that's what people say so that was

02:15:42 That's what I felt. No, why is it a dilemma? So your father your father is saying i'm worried

02:15:48 Sorry, it's not a dilemma. It's not a dilemma at all

02:15:52 So your father is coming to you and saying i'm worried about getting old and sick, right?

02:15:56 So, yeah, that's that's a

02:16:00 That is a concern

02:16:02 That's part of life. You know, that's that's definitely a concern

02:16:06 And so you can help him to solve that concern, right

02:16:10 But I don't know that you say I have to put my life on hold and hang around here for 20 years in case my parents

02:16:18 get ill

02:16:20 So it's it's right for me to to do that do what

02:16:28 To

02:16:31 I

02:16:32 I there's I there's this

02:16:34 And you can tell my voice is cracking again. There's there's this

02:16:38 like, um

02:16:41 I don't know emotional barrier about doing that where sorry doing what?

02:16:45 Uh, i'm, sorry. I'm it's of giving them practical solutions to a problem

02:16:50 um

02:16:53 I guess like me leaving for I don't know. I guess me leaving for 20 years

02:16:59 It seemed like in an abandonment sort of situation

02:17:02 in the sense that

02:17:05 Me assuming me being here is taking care of them. So me leaving is not taking care of them

02:17:11 I'm, not sure what you mean by taking care of them. They're adults in their 50s. Are they in decent health?

02:17:17 Um

02:17:21 No, um

02:17:23 My stepdad's probably in

02:17:28 decent health, um

02:17:30 But

02:17:33 My mom my mom has issues, you know, she's diabetic she has she has some other

02:17:38 Ongoing issues is she uh diabetic like the genetic kind

02:17:44 Um, no, it's the

02:17:47 like the lifestyle

02:17:50 Um, I think yeah

02:17:52 Because like what type one's like you get that like it's wrong in your body type two's the yeah the lifestyle kind

02:17:58 And why what what in her lifestyle has given her diabetes?

02:18:02 Okay

02:18:05 I think it's diet and inactivity so she overeats and she doesn't exercise

02:18:11 Yeah

02:18:15 And she's now she's saying I will I I do want to say that she has been

02:18:19 Dieting she's been working on that, you know, she like right now

02:18:25 She's she walks more often. So she she is consciously

02:18:29 Watching what she eats and and all that but like and sorry how yeah, how overweight is she?

02:18:36 Not very

02:18:39 um

02:18:41 You know, she's not obese

02:18:43 Okay

02:18:46 So she just what was didn't exercise

02:18:49 Yeah, just just

02:18:52 Just didn't exercise which is her choice, right?

02:18:55 right

02:18:57 So why would her bad choices be a dictatorship on you?

02:19:01 Did you ever suggest that she might want to exercise a little more?

02:19:04 No

02:19:10 What I have I have I have now but no no like when she was told when she was no, no, hang on hang on hang on

02:19:17 your mother

02:19:22 Doesn't exercise is that right or didn't in the past right didn't in the past. Okay, and for how long did she not exercise?

02:19:28 I uh

02:19:32 As long as as long as I well she except for

02:19:38 Various moments, you know, there was there was a time like

02:19:42 I'm not going into this level of granularity. I have a life to live. Okay, please for the love of all this god

02:19:48 Did she exercise in any consistent way?

02:19:52 radically

02:19:53 Not consistently. Okay. So no the answer is no she did not exercise in any consistent way, right and she also ate poorly, right?

02:20:00 Yeah, okay. So she ate poorly and she didn't exercise in any consistent way, right?

02:20:06 right

02:20:09 And you never said to her mom. I love you. You've got to exercise you got to eat better. Yes. I've I've said that

02:20:16 I don't just mean recently

02:20:19 You

02:20:21 Yeah, I mean i've said it in the past

02:20:29 Okay, so she didn't take your advice. You told her here's how to avoid getting ill

02:20:34 Right and she didn't listen to your advice, right?

02:20:39 Right so who's responsible for that

02:20:47 Right, so why is that on you? I don't think so

02:20:52 And this is what if you didn't care about your mom enough

02:21:05 And i'm not blaming you for this, right?

02:21:08 I'm, just saying

02:21:09 If you didn't care enough about your mom to tell her to eat better and exercise to the point where she has a pretty dangerous

02:21:15 illness

02:21:16 Why why would you start pretending to care about her now?

02:21:19 If you didn't care about her enough to prevent this or at least help prevent this

02:21:24 Why?

02:21:25 I don't understand

02:21:27 If I don't care enough about a friend of mine

02:21:29 To even say to him you got to exercise and eat better and and really make that stick or really

02:21:34 You know really go for that and really make that happen as you know

02:21:37 If if I don't care about a friend of mine enough to really help and prevent

02:21:43 Getting sick then why would I care about him in particular being sick?

02:21:46 So I think I think what happened is and again, I don't want you to feel like a bad guy or anything

02:21:56 I think what happened is you're mad at your parents for not parenting you

02:21:59 So you didn't do too much to intervene in their bad health decisions

02:22:11 Now you can ignore me as a kid i'll just watch you get sick

02:22:14 You sabotage me with indifference and let me date for 15 years without ever helping me get a proper mate

02:22:27 You sabotage me with indifference. Hey, guess what mom i'll sabotage you with indifference

02:22:33 And now you're attempting to cover up all of that manipulation that's going both ways with guilt, right

02:22:41 Yeah

02:22:43 Am I wrong

02:22:48 No, no, no, you're right

02:22:51 Right you're enmeshed in all of this right you're living in their house you're right. Yeah

02:22:59 You said i'm afraid of being too far from my mother to help when in need but also afraid that I will never be happy

02:23:05 and feel stuck she has mentioned that

02:23:08 If I will be happier somewhere else she would support that but there is always an underlying guilt in the idea of my being that far

02:23:13 I feel my mother raised me well enough to warrant this commitment to her

02:23:16 Okay, so

02:23:19 If you feel that your mother raised me well enough, sorry if you feel

02:23:22 That your mother raised you well enough to warrant this commitment

02:23:25 Then you wouldn't call me, right?

02:23:27 All right, I know you're calling me because you don't feel that otherwise you wouldn't call me right

02:23:37 How do I know i'm not being guilted to stay close because i'm mom's only child

02:23:40 Now i'm the parent of an only child

02:23:44 So of course it's fundamentally incumbent upon me to make sure I do not become a burden because she can't share that burden with other

02:23:51 Children, does that make sense?

02:23:53 Right, that's the job. I mean, it's not a surprise to them that you're an only child, right?

02:23:58 Right, so you've got to make sure that you don't become a burden to your only child

02:24:05 So you got to save your money. You got to have lots of insurance. You've got to have a community that can help you

02:24:09 Right, especially because you're not even married, right?

02:24:13 Right. And so how are you going to get married if you're taking care of?

02:24:19 aging relatives

02:24:22 Yeah, so it's it's completely unfair to ask you

02:24:29 Yeah

02:24:33 You

02:24:35 You know plus, you know

02:24:43 They made a marital commitment to

02:24:46 Stay together your biological father and mother they made a marital commitment to be together forever, right?

02:24:53 Yeah better or worse

02:24:57 Right till death do us part

02:25:01 In sickness and in health, right?

02:25:03 right

02:25:06 Did they keep those vows?

02:25:08 No, no

02:25:10 So

02:25:14 They already say you don't have to keep your your vows. You don't have to

02:25:17 Even even relationships that you chose you don't have to keep those vows, right?

02:25:21 Right

02:25:25 You

02:25:27 I mean it seems to me like you're just

02:25:34 kind of half not there

02:25:37 Not just in the in this call, but in your life and you're just bouncing off other people's needs

02:25:43 Do you want to stay

02:25:55 In the neighborhood to take care of your parents

02:25:59 Sorry, no, I don't okay

02:26:07 Have you signed a contract are you

02:26:12 legally and or foundationally morally obligated

02:26:16 To take care of people who didn't do much parenting to you

02:26:21 You

02:26:23 See how easy philosophy is

02:26:29 Yeah, I mean you're talking about wanting to take care of them have you talked to

02:26:36 Your three parents about the deficiencies in their parenting

02:26:42 No

02:26:46 So, I mean you can't even tell the truth to these people and you want to wipe their butts for 20 years

02:26:51 Crazy

02:26:55 I mean I I can't tell you what to do obviously, but if I were in your shoes i'd be like, okay

02:27:04 Let me at least have honest and direct conversations with these people and say listen

02:27:07 I I really uh, I have I have real problems taking care of you like I really do

02:27:13 I feel like I was kind of unraised. I feel like this family has kind of left me dangling for

02:27:16 12 years and and I really didn't get much instruction on how to be a a father or a man or a husband

02:27:24 And we have this kind of nonsense relationship where we don't talk about anything particularly important and mom you keep equating the two of us

02:27:32 Like it was you and I against the world when you're supposed to be the mother

02:27:35 You beat me when I was little like there's a lot of problems. There's a lot of stuff to unpack here

02:27:40 I need to have a direct conversation with you people because i'm tired of not existing in this relationship

02:27:44 I mean the idea that you have massive obligations with people you can't even be honest with it's incomprehensible to me

02:27:57 Yes, I will absolutely put my life on hold and maybe not get married and have children

02:28:05 But I won't tell you the truth about what I think and feel

02:28:09 You

02:28:11 Screen I mean if you don't have an obligation to tell the truth what other obligations mean anything

02:28:27 Tell the truth and then see what obligations arise from that but I

02:28:36 Can't imagine having an obligation to someone that involves sacrificing your entire life when you don't even feel like you have an obligation to tell them

02:28:42 the truth about what you think and feel

02:28:44 If that makes sense

02:28:48 It does yeah, you know, I wouldn't I wouldn't feel the same for a stranger, you know, that's that's

02:28:55 How it feels being described, you know, a stranger didn't get me anything I wouldn't give anything to them

02:29:04 I mean you have a history and I get all of that but

02:29:07 I would just say that be honest

02:29:10 The first obligation we have if we claim to have a relationship isn't the first obligation we have to tell the truth

02:29:16 Yeah

02:29:19 right, I mean if you if you get some woman to to fall for you because you claim to be some dogecoin zillionaire and uh, and uh,

02:29:26 An astronaut and a pilot and it's all a lie. Is this not a real relationship? Is it?

02:29:33 Oh, that's just an exploitation of gullibility, right?

02:29:36 Right, right. So if you claim to have a relationship and i'm not saying you don't but if you have a relationship

02:29:41 Shouldn't your first responsibility be to tell the truth?

02:29:44 Yes

02:29:49 so tell the truth, I mean all these other obligations and so on I

02:29:52 I don't know. I don't know what what's on the other side of telling the truth, but it's not real now

02:29:59 Everyone's just avoiding topics. Everyone's just avoiding contact. Everybody's just avoiding the facts

02:30:03 I mean your parents want to avoid it for obvious reasons and you're going along with it

02:30:08 Okay, but let's not pretend that's any kind of real relationship

02:30:11 If you can't tell the truth to people you're not in a relationship

02:30:14 I mean about foundational things, you know, whatever right?

02:30:18 right

02:30:22 So that's my um, that's my thought about it

02:30:27 Before you get involved in these massive brain spanning obligations, how about you just

02:30:32 Tell the truth about what you think and feel

02:30:37 Yeah

02:30:46 Because I mean

02:30:49 That's why you can't get a wife because you're not used to telling the truth you say it's shyness

02:30:53 No, you're just afraid to tell the truth because i'm I assume that you feel and i'm sure you're right

02:30:57 You'll be punished for telling the truth

02:30:59 Because you know if people are exploiting you and you tell the truth you become inconvenient to them and they'll sometimes get mad at you

02:31:04 right, so maybe that's the scenario could be something else, but

02:31:06 That would be my guess

02:31:09 Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah

02:31:14 Oh

02:31:21 Oh, yeah, sorry, i'm i'm i'm

02:31:23 Take being in and no listen, that's no problem. I mean we've been talking for almost three hours

02:31:28 It's a long call and so i'll probably end here and of course you can listen to this back

02:31:32 But you know, first of all massive sympathies like I mean, i'm really sorry that you were so untrained

02:31:36 And i'm glad if you're finding things on the internet that are helping you learn a little bit more about these things

02:31:42 I think that's fantastic and good for you. And i'm i'm really sorry

02:31:45 That you were so untrained if it's any consolation. I was untrained as well and it took me a long time

02:31:50 To get my uh crap together in any way shape or form. So don't feel don't feel bad about that

02:31:55 I think we're all in similar boats

02:31:57 Those of us who are you know raised by wolves would be better because at least then we'd know how to chew on the neck

02:32:01 of a deer

02:32:02 but

02:32:03 So yeah, I mean huge huge amounts of sympathies and I mean i'm i'm sure you can get what you want

02:32:08 But you need to practice being present in a relationship because a woman will sense that right a woman will sense

02:32:13 Oh this guy just kind of dodges and avoids and minimizes and gaslights and fogs and it isn't direct and it's like it's too exhausting

02:32:20 right

02:32:21 Yeah

02:32:22 She's probably like a quality woman is going to be like no. I need I need a man who can tell the truth

02:32:25 and

02:32:27 You really can't be more honest than your least honest relationship like you can't be honest in life

02:32:31 More than your least honest relationship and if you have a relationship with your parents, that's all about lying and

02:32:36 hiding and pretending things aren't what they are and

02:32:39 Then that's going to falsify everything and then you're not going to be able to find a quality woman because she's going to sense that

02:32:46 Falseness and say well i'm there may be a great guy in there, but I don't have any consistent access to him

02:32:51 So it the better he is the more torture it will be

02:32:53 It's like you're starving and your favorite food is locked on the other side of the iron bars it's like that's really frustrating, right?

02:33:01 Yeah

02:33:04 All right, anything else you wanted to mention

02:33:08 No, I no I just an

02:33:13 extreme thank you for

02:33:15 Taking the time to uh, talk talk with me. Oh, listen, man. You're absolutely worth it

02:33:20 You're a great guy

02:33:21 and I really really appreciate your your honesty and openness with this stuff because I obviously do know that it's uh,

02:33:27 It could be kind of rough and you did a fantastic job

02:33:29 Thank you, yeah, i'm uh, uh definitely gonna take take this to heart

02:33:35 All right. Will you keep me posted about how things are going?

02:33:38 Will do yeah, thank you so much stuff. Oh, tell me tell me what you're feeling brother

02:33:45 All right

02:33:47 Um

02:33:49 It it almost it feels like a a weight is is lifted in a in a sense where

02:33:57 There there's a direct path I can have this conversation open and honesty if it goes one

02:34:07 Way right if it goes the other way

02:34:10 Awesome. I know what the situation is and I can I can react to that clarity is everything

02:34:15 And if you could do me one other favor, please don't drive when you're upset

02:34:18 I can know you're feeling quite emotional and if you do me a real solid, you know

02:34:21 uh have your emotions and and respect your emotions, but please don't drive until you feel calmer because

02:34:27 As you know emotions and strong emotions and good driving don't usually go hand in hand

02:34:32 All right, no, yep, I promise yeah, all right keep me posted thanks for the call man. Take care will do thank you take care

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