I'M 35 AND WON'T SETTLE! Freedomain Call In

Stefan Molyneux

In this episode, we discuss a caller's history of domestic violence, addiction, and trauma. She opens up about her past relationship struggles, highlighting the importance of growth and healthy boundaries. We explore her challenges in recognizing red flags in relationships and the impact of unresolved trauma on forming connections. Advice is given on realistic expectations in partnerships and prioritizing self-care. The caller reflects on her pattern of choosing unsuitable partners and seeking validation, emphasizing the importance of setting boundaries for personal well-being.  Join the PREMIUM philosophy community on the web for free!  NOW AVAILABLE FOR SUBSCRIBERS: MY NEW BOOK 'PEACEFUL PARENTING' - AND THE INTERACTIVE PEACEFUL PARENTING AI AND AUDIOBOOK!  Also get the Truth About the French Revolution, the interactive multi-lingual philosophy AI trained on thousands of hours of my material, private livestreams, premium call in shows, the 22 Part History of Philosophers series and much more!  See you soon!  https://freedomain.locals.com/support/promo/UPB2022

Transcript

00:00:00 Hello. Hey, how's it going?

00:00:02 Great. How are you? I am well. I am well. Thank you. Sorry for the slightly rough voice, but I'm all ears

00:00:08 Why don't you tell me what's going on and how I can

00:00:10 best help

00:00:12 Okay

00:00:14 Thanks so much for taking my call

00:00:16 you're welcome your work has been so valued by my life and well-being and

00:00:21 I haven't spoken to you and maybe like a decade. So this is definitely a callback that's been waiting to happen

00:00:29 Well, you sound and look even younger. So that's good. Thank you. I actually am doing so much better

00:00:34 So I'm gonna be 35 next month and

00:00:39 I have wanted to have a family and to have children since I was in my 20s and I have

00:00:48 failed to do that thus far I

00:00:51 Have a string of failed relationships, I don't know how valuable it will be to

00:00:58 discuss those

00:01:00 Would you only you are in possession of whether they're valid whether that's valuable or not, so I'll leave it to your discretion

00:01:06 I'm certainly happy to hear

00:01:07 Okay. Um, well I had I dated my high school sweetheart for eight years

00:01:13 from 17 till about 25 or 26

00:01:17 and

00:01:19 in the middle of that relationship, he started experimenting with drugs and

00:01:25 then it just got like really out of hand and

00:01:28 he ended up being institutionalized a bunch of times and

00:01:32 court ordered to take

00:01:35 lithium injections

00:01:37 And it just was

00:01:40 Really bad and then about two years after we broke up he committed suicide

00:01:47 So obviously

00:01:50 You know, I can't

00:01:54 Take the blame for that but it certainly

00:01:58 Makes me question myself because he and I had what I thought was such a great love

00:02:07 But I certainly was not the priority in his life and then sorry to hear about all of that that's just a monstrous

00:02:15 Set of events to go through

00:02:18 Yeah, it was definitely something that I

00:02:22 Don't think I'll ever fully get over but I've done my best to sort of move on

00:02:28 Well, are we just gonna step over the eight-year?

00:02:31 Like I just feel like if I don't want to like

00:02:36 Take us down a five-hour rabbit hole. So I'm trying to be as I just said the boys

00:02:41 Experience with this stuff of it's alright. You can let me let me take a tiny bit of a lead. So what what?

00:02:49 Red flags family issues. What happened that this guy ended up a drug addict and

00:02:53 Office rocker and court-ordered and like what was his history? What were the red flags?

00:02:59 so he

00:03:02 Was the son of a

00:03:08 Very famous person in and his mother

00:03:17 Kind of wanted to lock his father down

00:03:20 so that was part of

00:03:23 Why she had him I don't want to be too like critical of whether or not they were actually in love

00:03:31 but what happened was his mom and dad had him and

00:03:34 then shortly after his mom started to get sort of paranoid about whether or not his father was being faithful in the

00:03:42 marriage and

00:03:44 she ended up initiating a divorce and

00:03:46 At the end of the divorce she ended up taking a bunch of money from his dad and

00:03:52 Taking the mansion that they lived in

00:03:56 But she couldn't afford to pay the mortgage

00:03:59 For this massive mansion. She did her best to try to make that happen. But meanwhile at that point

00:04:07 my ex was about

00:04:10 13 or 14 and

00:04:13 He had a friend whose uncle was importing cocaine

00:04:18 into

00:04:21 that's where he was living at the time and

00:04:23 This man

00:04:26 gave them a kilo of cocaine and told them to sell it or that they could sell it and

00:04:32 For him being an adolescent boy in this situation where his mother was under a lot of pressure

00:04:38 To pay all of these bills. He thought

00:04:42 The smart thing to do would be to sell drugs

00:04:45 So that he could somehow

00:04:48 Rescue his mother essentially was his line of thinking at that time. This was his mother's brother who was the drug importer

00:04:55 No, no

00:04:57 this was just some friend of his so he went to a private school and it was a friend of his at private school had

00:05:02 an uncle that was

00:05:04 importing cocaine and

00:05:06 Boy private school if you can say off the geographical locations, that'd be great boy private school plus drugs

00:05:11 I've heard that story about a billion times

00:05:13 Okay, I I thought that was rare. No, no private schools and drugs is like hand and glove a lot of times anyway

00:05:20 so he decided to

00:05:23 so he started selling cocaine at the age of 13 or 14 and

00:05:28 then he of course started using it and that got out of hand and he went into such a

00:05:34 Bad drug spiral that he thought there were bugs crawling under his skin

00:05:40 he got a heart murmur and then eventually he had to be taken to the hospital and

00:05:45 The doctors at the hospital told his mom that if he didn't stop using drugs, he was gonna die and how old so at this point

00:05:52 At this point he was about 15 and how long had been using for I guess about two years

00:05:59 Okay, so not that long, but I guess he just had access to so much of it

00:06:04 But that was part of why it got so bad and then his mom

00:06:09 Told him that she was going to take him on a vacation to South America and had him kidnapped

00:06:15 by a rehabilitation center once he was across the border and

00:06:20 he was kept in this rehabilitation center in Mexico for about a year and

00:06:27 That was very traumatic for him in a number of ways and then

00:06:32 His father got esophageal cancer

00:06:36 Wait, sorry, but wouldn't his father have some say about whether he goes and gets kidnapped in Mexico

00:06:40 um, I don't really have like a direct answer about that because his dad well

00:06:48 You only had years to find out. No, I mean so pretty much what I know is that

00:06:53 when the divorce happened

00:06:56 around that time

00:06:59 His father was was locked out of his job and so then he was struggling in

00:07:06 his own life and his mother had moved on to

00:07:11 Start dating someone else and I guess they didn't have much contact

00:07:16 So I'm assuming what happened is his mom pretty much said to his dad like I don't know what to do with him

00:07:21 I think the best thing to do is to put him in rehab and I'm assuming his dad didn't

00:07:29 Argue against that. So his dad was like a

00:07:32 Really really critical alcoholic. He pretty much spent his days

00:07:36 Working from a bar and he was also a chain smoker. Oh

00:07:41 So hence the so you'll cancer, right? Okay, right exactly

00:07:45 So I know that his father didn't always agree with what his mother

00:07:49 Wanted in terms of parenting, but I I get the sense that

00:07:55 He kind of just left it, you know in her hands and trusted that she knew what was best

00:08:01 for him

00:08:03 So while he was in rehab

00:08:05 He got word that his father had esophageal cancer and it was like full-blown and he only had a few months to live

00:08:13 So he went to be with his father in the hospital and his mother didn't come with him

00:08:22 Like she just stayed behind with her boyfriend and lived her own life

00:08:27 So he was about 16 years old at the time and he just watched his dad sort of wither away in a few months

00:08:34 in the hospital and

00:08:36 His dad had some pretty high-profile friends because of the success he had in his career

00:08:42 so

00:08:44 my ex was staying with one of his father's friends and

00:08:50 Sadly his this man molested him

00:08:53 which

00:08:55 Is this weird element to his whole destruction because when I first met him?

00:08:59 He didn't really say anything about it and it was only throughout the relationship that he started to process what had happened and then he

00:09:06 Wanted to confront it at a certain point and just got totally gaslit

00:09:10 by the guy and by his mom

00:09:13 so

00:09:15 This was all happening and then at that time he had a girlfriend

00:09:20 It was the girl he was dating before he met me and she kind of broke his heart

00:09:23 so he wound up

00:09:26 kind of just

00:09:28 alone and

00:09:30 without much direction after his father passed away and that's when I met him and I

00:09:37 Didn't grow up in a stable home. So I'm sure there were lots of red flags about me as well

00:09:44 and that's probably

00:09:46 why at the time I didn't

00:09:49 See his past with drugs as much

00:09:53 To be as much of a red flag as I probably should have

00:09:57 Sorry, you met him and

00:10:00 He told you that he'd been a drug addict a raging. Sorry. I don't mean to laugh

00:10:05 But so what a raging cocaine addict at the age of 13 or 14?

00:10:09 Mm-hmm, but he was sober. He was completely sober when I met him

00:10:14 He didn't drink alcohol. He didn't smoke pot. He didn't

00:10:17 Have work

00:10:21 It worked as much as I suppose it could have well, I mean if he was over the first three years

00:10:27 Yeah, so for the first three years that we were dating he was completely sober, which was a great influence on me because most of my

00:10:32 friends

00:10:33 used

00:10:35 Intoxicants recreationally, so it was actually sorry. How old were you when you met him?

00:10:40 I was about just turned 17 and he was same age. Yeah, he was 18

00:10:46 Okay, and what was it that attracted you to him? I

00:10:50 thought he was a

00:10:53 Brilliant in terms of his intelligence and creativity. I thought he was handsome. I

00:10:59 Thought he was a good influence on my life

00:11:03 relative to

00:11:05 my other peers and

00:11:08 I guess in a way it was kind of one of those like love at first sight things

00:11:12 Like we just kind of laid eyes on each other. There's no love at first. Yeah, okay

00:11:17 That's lust so we had we had lust and okay, so a good-looking wealthy boy. Oh

00:11:22 He wasn't wealthy, but he had promise

00:11:26 Because sorry, but he comes from a wealthy family

00:11:29 Well, so what happened was his mom ended up just spending

00:11:34 No, no, whatever massive. It was from a wealthy and prominent family

00:11:38 Well, but one that had fallen apart so it wasn't like he was really living

00:11:42 That lavishly however, he was much wealthier than me. Yes

00:11:46 So, I mean his mom paid his rent his mom ended up paying for him to go to college

00:11:50 Sorry, he was so he was living on his own when he was in high school

00:11:53 Yeah, so what happened was after his father passed away

00:11:57 His mom paid for him to live in an apartment in the town that I happened to be living in. Okay

00:12:03 And I was where did you meet him? I

00:12:06 Met him so I was best friends with his cousin. Okay, so I met him through his cousin

00:12:12 It was actually at a show. He was a musician

00:12:15 So he was playing music and that's that's how we met

00:12:18 And the first groupie group. I know but I was just so amazing, you know, and I I certainly

00:12:26 Don't regret falling in lust or love or whatever

00:12:32 From the wall want to take a bath anyway, okay, so

00:12:36 So you groupie up this guy and you start dating and he's telling you all the red flags

00:12:42 But because of your background which we haven't really talked about I suppose you kind of blew past that stuff, right?

00:12:48 Yeah, I would I would describe it that way I mean it was definitely an upgrade to my lifestyle right it was like I was

00:12:55 spending time with someone that wasn't

00:12:58 Entertaining themselves with intoxication. Okay. So what's what's your history that this was an upgrade?

00:13:04 so my personal history is

00:13:07 My mother grew up in a very sort of sheltered

00:13:13 Christian or Catholic Protestant

00:13:17 households and

00:13:20 When she was 22, she met my dad. He was 32 at the time. He lied to her told her he was 27

00:13:27 he was an alcoholic ex

00:13:29 drug trafficker and heroin addict and

00:13:33 He pretty much lied all the way home and married her and had me and

00:13:40 then continued drinking and doing drugs and

00:13:44 was violent and

00:13:47 Then my parents had a lot of issues

00:13:50 In the first three years of my life. They kidnapped me from each other a

00:13:56 series of times

00:13:58 Flew me to

00:14:01 places across the border like in tea and there was just a big drama and then

00:14:06 My mom

00:14:10 Never wanted to ask my dad for child support

00:14:12 She said that she thought it would be

00:14:16 Hurting him and if she hurt him it would hurt me. So she

00:14:19 chose to work and

00:14:22 We've kind of you and I've touched a bit on this sometimes I'm in like the chats that you do

00:14:27 So pretty much forever until I spoke to you about it. I thought that my mom just couldn't afford

00:14:33 to take care of me but actually like she just worked 40 or 50 hours a week and then smoked like two packs of cigarettes a

00:14:40 day and was an alcoholic and

00:14:42 Was drinking constantly

00:14:45 So I was living in an impoverished state and then my father was not supportive either

00:14:52 And then when I was six my mom's dad committed suicide

00:14:55 Which was just a big impact on me because he was like my favorite

00:15:00 person and it made my mom really depressed and then

00:15:03 What was he ill or was there some other reason that would so some explanation so

00:15:12 See, this is a thing like you're so good at at digging out the rabbit holes

00:15:18 It's just it's just can can seem endless sometimes. So my mother's mother

00:15:23 was abused by her stepmother while she was growing up severely and

00:15:29 Long story short she ended up essentially allowing her own brother to molest her daughters

00:15:38 This is who's my mom. So my mother and her sisters were molested by their uncle and

00:15:46 this was

00:15:48 Open. No, your grandmother your grandmother on the other side permitted the molestation of her daughters in return for

00:15:55 for pot

00:15:58 Is the story for pot? Yeah

00:16:01 so

00:16:04 pretty much

00:16:06 That was all that was all just so much it was all heavy and my mother

00:16:12 you know, she

00:16:15 Dealt with it the way that she did and

00:16:17 Sorry, I don't know. She ended up. Well, did she just she just drank more and got more violent and aggressive and she told me

00:16:24 It was my fault

00:16:25 that

00:16:27 My grandfather committed suicide

00:16:29 Because I didn't go to the store with him one time. It was just stuff like that

00:16:35 You know where it's like even as a six-year-old child like I knew

00:16:39 That I was being treated

00:16:43 Unfairly, so my grandfather was the one who molested

00:16:46 No, my grandfather. So my grandfather

00:16:49 So my aunt my eldest aunt on my mom's side against their names if you could oh, sorry

00:16:55 Yeah, sorry. So she ended up having an argument with my grandmother

00:17:00 one night and

00:17:03 Pretty much said out loud

00:17:05 like the reason I'm so messed up is because you let your brother molest me and

00:17:11 my grandfather I guess heard what she had said and

00:17:15 The story is there were also some other issues like with his

00:17:20 Taxes or something like his accountant had been not doing his taxes properly. Maybe he owed some money

00:17:26 Not maybe I mean that was a story

00:17:28 so anyway the next day he took himself to the garbage dump and

00:17:31 Blew his head off with a shotgun and it was two weeks before Christmas

00:17:36 And he didn't leave a note

00:17:40 And it was just kind of obviously very

00:17:43 traumatic

00:17:46 and

00:17:48 Sorry, so had to do with taxes and because he overheard your aunt talking about

00:17:52 The having been more than that. The guy was molested by the man in return for the pot

00:17:59 Well, I don't know if you knew about the pot, but the thing is that my grandmother was the second wife of my grandfather

00:18:07 So his first wife he had three children with her and my my grandfather

00:18:12 Was an inventor he invented tools and him and his brother had like a factory where they produced

00:18:19 The things that they created and they had employed this guy

00:18:23 From Germany to work with them and this guy was staying in

00:18:27 A spare room in my grandfather's home and he ended up having an affair with my grandfather's first

00:18:33 wife

00:18:36 So he ended up they ended up ending their marriage and then his second wife was my grandmother and

00:18:43 To me, I mean I was only a child and I've you know spent my life thinking about this

00:18:48 But I don't have all the information but to me I think that it was just kind of like he felt

00:18:52 Like he had always done the right thing in his life

00:18:57 But these awful things kept happening

00:19:05 Around him like I think he definitely felt like what happened with his ex-wife

00:19:09 negatively impacted his

00:19:12 the three children that he had with her and I think maybe he was horrified that

00:19:17 You know his own children were being assaulted without him

00:19:21 Knowing and that this was permitted by his own wife. I mean, I'm assuming okay that you know, that's what happened and

00:19:32 Yeah, after that happened things spiraled a lot my mother was like severely

00:19:37 Physically and emotionally and mentally abusive for my entire life

00:19:44 Really really bad corporal punishment

00:19:47 sadistic

00:19:49 Stuff nothing sexual. Thank God just just you know

00:19:53 Terrorized me for my entire childhood and then when I started to get a bit older

00:20:01 Around eight or nine. I started to sort of push back because I was getting bigger and

00:20:05 That aggravated her a lot and

00:20:10 Eventually my school found out about what was happening and

00:20:17 They ended up helping me

00:20:21 Leave my mom with the help of Children's Services and I went to live with my father

00:20:27 So that happened when I was about 10

00:20:31 And my father's house was definitely better like it was less

00:20:35 Hysterical and psychotic

00:20:38 But he was an alcoholic and very neglectful and also was abusive and aggressive

00:20:44 Just not in such a like a psychotic

00:20:47 Way more like in a savage brutal way. So I ended up putting up with that until I was about

00:20:58 14 and then I met

00:21:00 my first quote first boyfriend

00:21:03 Which was the person I dated before the guy

00:21:06 that we were just talking about and he was about eight years older than me and

00:21:12 He was a drug dealer as well. So he was pretty much a

00:21:16 pedophile, but I didn't

00:21:19 See it that way because I suppose I was young and I just wanted to get out of my father's home

00:21:26 So I ran away when I was 15 and then I was

00:21:30 abused

00:21:32 severely in that relationship

00:21:34 And then finally when I was in what way you were what agent and have and what way were you abused?

00:21:41 So I ran away when I was 15. I started dating him when I was 14 and he

00:21:47 Would do things like

00:21:50 Leave me in our apartment without a key so I couldn't leave and get back in

00:21:55 and

00:21:57 Without any food or without anything and just leave for days

00:22:02 He was physically

00:22:05 Violent with me. He controlled everything I did like I I couldn't really even have a conversation on

00:22:12 The phone without him

00:22:14 becoming paranoid

00:22:17 about my intentions

00:22:19 in our relationship

00:22:24 And then when I finally decided that I wanted to leave him he ended up

00:22:30 Vandalizing

00:22:34 my belongings and essentially tried to

00:22:37 like coerce me into being with him and I I

00:22:42 somehow overcame that and ended up blocking his number and just

00:22:47 somehow moving on

00:22:50 And then it was about you with him. I

00:22:52 Was with him from about 14 till 16 and then I was single for about seven months before I met

00:22:59 Guy yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah

00:23:03 So yeah about three and a half years into my relationship with that guy. He started using

00:23:10 Drugs and then he just spiraled into what what happened over the three and a half years

00:23:16 I mean, how was it was great. We were we were in love and we had plans for the future and

00:23:23 I

00:23:26 Don't know. It was just a great romance. And then what happened was

00:23:30 one day

00:23:32 He was kind of in a bad mood about something like just you know

00:23:37 Like a random thing and he was hanging out with one of his friends and his friend suggested that they like have a beer

00:23:45 To sort of take the edge off and this friend of his knew that he was like a recovering alcoholic

00:23:51 But I don't think he really understood. Sorry. I thought it so it wasn't just the cocaine. It was alcohol as well

00:23:56 Well, he wasn't addicted to alcohol when he was younger

00:24:00 But that's that's what he would call it like he would say I'm a recovering alcoholic

00:24:03 That was I guess the terminology that he had learned at the rehab center

00:24:08 No, but he was a cocaine addict. He was he was an addict. Yeah, but I guess that was the terminology

00:24:15 They used for it

00:24:18 No, I don't think no, I'm I don't think that's true though. I'm not an expert obviously

00:24:24 I mean, that's what he would call it. I mean if you say he's a coca addict

00:24:28 I mean if you if you're addicted to coke, I mean

00:24:31 Yeah, I mean he would say that specifically but he never referred to it as like I'm a recovering addict or I'm a recover like I'm

00:24:40 I'm going to narcotics anonymous like he wouldn't go to narcotics anonymous. He would go to alcoholics

00:24:45 Anonymous though. He was not an alcoholic. No, okay. All right

00:24:51 so he

00:24:54 Went to have a beer with his friend and then he had a couple beers and I guess he just had a lot of fun

00:25:00 being a young man and going out and

00:25:03 Drinking and partying and then he decided that he wanted to continue doing that and it moved very quickly

00:25:10 like within three months he went from like having a couple beers to like

00:25:14 mixing

00:25:16 street drugs and

00:25:18 Being on drugs for days at a time and then that was obviously a lot of tension on our relationship

00:25:26 we would fight and then

00:25:29 he would kind of stop and then he would start again and

00:25:32 that was when everything really started to fall apart because then there were a few times when I decided I needed to just like leave and

00:25:39 I went to live in another city and

00:25:41 Then he would call me and say, you know, I'm sober and I'm sorry and I can't believe done this and please come home and

00:25:48 Then at a certain point when I was about 18 or 19

00:25:53 He asked me

00:25:55 To marry him. So we were technically

00:25:59 Engaged which put like a lot more

00:26:02 pressure on the relationship because I

00:26:07 Wanted to have a future with him and we had talked about like, okay, we're gonna go to school and we're gonna save for a

00:26:11 House, we're gonna buy a house and then we're gonna have a kid like we would you know, we would make these

00:26:16 plans and then he would go off on some drug crazed binge and

00:26:22 I would obviously

00:26:25 Fall apart

00:26:28 So finally

00:26:31 It was

00:26:33 At a certain point he started using heroin

00:26:35 and that for some reason for me was

00:26:39 Something that I just couldn't accept like it was just a step too far

00:26:44 so that was when we really really just sort of ended things and

00:26:49 then

00:26:51 As I mentioned some time after that he ended up committing suicide

00:26:54 but after after that ended I just kind of

00:26:59 Wanted to be single for a little while

00:27:02 Because I had realized that of course I had spent like half my life in a

00:27:07 Relationship and then I I didn't really know what life was like and you were in your mid-twenties at that. No. Yes

00:27:15 20 yeah, 20 24 23. No, I was 25 25. Yeah

00:27:20 So obviously that's not the best time to want to be single, but that's what I felt like I needed to do

00:27:28 So then I was single for a bit and then I ended up dating this guy for six weeks

00:27:34 Who ended up being totally insane and ended up like stalking me and trying to break into my house

00:27:41 I'm sorry. Did you had you gone to therapy or did you go to you know?

00:27:45 Did you know so I so I didn't finish high school and then I went to

00:27:51 University as a mature student and I actually some years ago when I spoke to you

00:27:55 I spoke to you about so I went to university and ended up being assaulted by

00:27:59 one of my professors which

00:28:02 You and I spoke about it and you were pretty much like you shouldn't have

00:28:07 Put yourself in that situation and like maybe you're right, but for me emotionally I was quite

00:28:13 Quite traumatized by that. I'm pretty sure I didn't blame you for being assaulted

00:28:17 No, you didn't blame me

00:28:18 Yeah, but you kind of like you you should have you should have done things differently and you were right, but for me I

00:28:24 Was just sort of winging life like I've never really had much

00:28:29 guidance in my life, so I've made

00:28:33 Stupid decisions for sure when I was younger

00:28:38 Looking back. I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't do things the same way, of course, but

00:28:44 Yeah, so I pretty much left

00:28:47 University after that, but it was probably for the best because I studied like I did one year of

00:28:52 Psychology. I thought this is not the way I want to approach understanding human behavior

00:28:58 And then I did one year of philosophy and I thought well, this is stupid like I shouldn't be paying

00:29:03 Someone to tell me to read books and write essays like I can do this on my own

00:29:08 so

00:29:10 Yeah after after the whole

00:29:13 Thing with the guy who stopped me I met

00:29:18 Another guy who I dated for about three years and I I really liked him

00:29:23 But that it didn't work out because he felt like he couldn't

00:29:30 Give me what I needed

00:29:33 He was an odd character, you know, he was like educated. He was a lawyer

00:29:36 He was educated to be a lawyer decided he didn't want to be a lawyer that he wanted to be a musician

00:29:41 Maybe that should have been a red flag. I

00:29:44 Don't know so he was kind of not in a stable

00:29:47 Position in his life and I ended up just sort of wasting

00:29:51 Wasting three years on that relationship, but sorry, so he didn't make it as a musician. He didn't make any money

00:29:57 Not really. No like even to this day

00:30:01 He tells me I'm the love of his life and that he wants to marry me and he's still trying to

00:30:07 Make his music career work. He's actually in the UK right now

00:30:13 Trying it out

00:30:14 There but sorry, why why did it not work out emotionally though?

00:30:18 Um, he would just do he so he was the first person that ever ghosted me first and only person that ever ghosted me

00:30:25 I didn't even know what ghosting was

00:30:27 Before I dated him

00:30:28 But he would just sometimes disappear and I found out that what he was doing was just locking himself away in his apartment and feeling

00:30:34 Sorry for himself

00:30:36 Which was better than him like cheating on me

00:30:39 On YouTube

00:30:41 No, I don't I honestly don't know. He said this is better than if he had cheated it was better. Yes, but still obviously not

00:30:48 Sufficient for me to feel secure and happy in a relationship. Like if your partner is just disappearing on you completely

00:30:55 Not reachable for a week or sometimes even three weeks at a time

00:31:00 Did you meet any stable normal guys?

00:31:06 So I thought I did so I thought no no, did you not not what you did you meet any stable normal guys I

00:31:12 Don't think I'm ever in your social circle around anywhere, right?

00:31:17 Well, the thing is like I've improved myself so much over these years that now I'm in a position where I'm definitely meeting

00:31:25 No, no, no, I'm not now then

00:31:28 No, I don't think I honestly don't think so. So there were no

00:31:33 In your environment were there normal stable guys? I

00:31:36 Would I would say?

00:31:39 none that

00:31:41 Appeared to be a

00:31:44 Good match for me. Maybe it was that I okay. So you

00:31:48 Just I'm just trying. I'm just trying to answer the question. I can't think of one

00:31:53 I mean, I mean, right like you're you're an attractive woman, right? I mean, yeah profile picture

00:32:00 So you're in university you're in

00:32:03 Your work you're in social environments your parties and and so on dinner parties this that and the other right?

00:32:08 Yeah, but then I was dating that guy like I get it when you said university

00:32:13 I'm thinking it there was this one guy. He was a really nice guy super smart

00:32:16 He wanted to be a neurologist, but I wasn't open to that because I was dating

00:32:20 The other guy and I love so there was a nice normal guy the guy who wanted to be a neurologist. It was one

00:32:28 More than one, right

00:32:30 Okay, so with it whether do you have the guys you look back and you say well this guy was kind of floating around this

00:32:36 guy was

00:32:37 You know, maybe you can

00:32:38 Thank you. Now you have these sequels like you can find out what happened to people

00:32:42 So were there guys when you look back and you say?

00:32:45 There was that nice normal guy. I

00:32:47 should have

00:32:50 Know explored to be honest like I mean I grew up in such a degenerate

00:32:56 Environment that most of the men I knew are

00:32:58 Dead or in jail or addicted to drugs. I understand that but that's that's in the environment you came from

00:33:06 I'm talking about the social circles and and some of them. I mean the chosen circle circles would probably be dysfunctional, but

00:33:12 You meet people over the course of your life or in university there would be young men around who weren't crazy, right?

00:33:22 Yeah, but I mean I was very much loyal to this guy

00:33:26 So we're talking from 17 till about 25 and sometime a little bit after that right because I was still heartbroken

00:33:32 I was committed to this guy

00:33:34 Even though it was a three-year even though he was on drugs. No, no, the other guy

00:33:40 No, no, no the guy who got on drugs and committed suicide. Oh, so the first guy, okay

00:33:45 now yeah, were there ever any young men who floated around your environment and

00:33:51 You think in hindsight might have been angling to offer you something better

00:33:55 So there was one and he's kind of the last one of the last ones I dated so there was this guy I knew

00:34:03 before I even met

00:34:06 the long-term guy, but we were always just friends and then sometime after

00:34:11 the suicide thing happened and whatever he and I reconnected and we tried dating for a year and

00:34:18 it

00:34:21 Turned out to just be another situation where I obviously just wasn't paying attention to any red flags

00:34:26 Like that must have been it because I always thought he was the most diplomatic

00:34:29 sound of mine reasonable

00:34:32 hard-working guy and

00:34:35 We everything was great for three months

00:34:38 And then I started to notice that he had like a problem with aggressive outbursts

00:34:43 The first time it happened was towards his mother

00:34:46 Then I started to see him do it to just people in public and like even old people and okay

00:34:53 So this is not a healthy guy. No, but that I would say, okay, so

00:34:57 Were there any guys that in hindsight you look back and you say

00:35:03 They may be were offering my hand a hand up or were at least telling me that this wasn't a good relationship

00:35:09 I mean if you're around in

00:35:11 A social environment and your boyfriend is spiraling into drugs and psychosis aren't there people saying, you know

00:35:18 This is not a good idea. You got to leave this guy. You can't help him. I

00:35:21 Think it's just the problem was everyone else around me was like

00:35:27 somewhat worse off

00:35:30 What's the kind of been worse off than the guy? No, they were a side

00:35:33 They really were oh they were okay. Yeah

00:35:37 so

00:35:40 Because like there are normal healthy people out there, right?

00:35:42 There are but I think I was very much the isolated from anyone like that for a while

00:35:48 But I didn't realize it. It was just I was

00:35:51 Keeping well, I think I was just in the habit of keeping

00:35:55 certain kinds of company like people that were

00:35:58 more hedonistic and

00:36:01 it took me time to

00:36:03 Have higher standards for the people that are in

00:36:09 My life like my yeah, listen

00:36:11 I mean, I I guarantee you like just as a man like I guarantee you that there were nice healthy guys around

00:36:17 Who were incredibly frustrated that?

00:36:20 You know a very intelligent and attractive young woman was trailing after the crazies and bonding with the crazies

00:36:26 And I mean certainly could okay, you know, it could it could have been but they don't know what I wouldn't have let them close

00:36:33 Enough to me for me to even know because from 17 to about 25

00:36:37 I was completely devoted to that one guy and then after that the people I dated in

00:36:42 Some ways were an upgrade like they weren't drug addicts, you know, and they were a bit more stable, but they were still not

00:36:50 You know at at the level

00:36:53 That I would need them to be at in order for me to feel secure in the relationship and for it to be like adding

00:37:00 to my life

00:37:01 To share my life with them. Okay, so so you knew that the guys you were dating

00:37:06 Were pretty terrible, right? I mean as far as has always

00:37:10 Like as I met them, I thought that they were great and it was only after

00:37:16 Observing like in real time how dysfunctional the relationships were that I realized like all of the things

00:37:23 Sorry, how long have you been listening to what I do? So I've been listening since 2013

00:37:30 It's funny, you know, I just had another call in with a guy who started listening the same year

00:37:34 So you've been listening to me since you were 24

00:37:38 Yeah, but okay, so I mean you've been listening to all in shows. So it's like, okay

00:37:44 Let me find out about your childhood if the childhood was good great if the childhood was bad

00:37:49 Have you done therapy? Have you processed it? Do you have boundaries with the crazy people in your life?

00:37:54 I mean you would have learned about that in your early to mid 20s, right?

00:37:57 So it took me pretty much this entire decade to to do all of that. So I have now no

00:38:03 No

00:38:06 Before hang on. What do you mean it took you?

00:38:09 it took because I was so depressed and and impoverished and

00:38:14 Like disorganized. Oh you had no free will

00:38:18 That's your I did but I was just like so distracted. No, no, and I didn't even know. No, did you have free will?

00:38:27 And a better example

00:38:29 Well

00:38:31 Like you were the first human being I really had encountered in my life that

00:38:37 made me feel like I

00:38:40 was

00:38:41 Rational for wanting to reject my abusers and that made me think right. Okay, so really there it helped so 24

00:38:49 You

00:38:53 Encountered me pretty healthy person and you got a methodology because you always heard me talking about red flags and and you can't change

00:39:00 abusers who don't

00:39:02 admit fault and take responsibility and

00:39:05 And all of that and and family history and family trauma and all of that

00:39:09 So you had access to all of that rich material and you were absorbing it. I assume fairly I

00:39:14 Dare say religiously so you had all of that

00:39:19 So, why didn't you apply it that's my quote took me about three years of listening to you religiously

00:39:26 to get to a point where I was like

00:39:29 stable enough in my thinking and my boundaries and my

00:39:33 Understanding of like universal moral standards that I could even begin

00:39:38 that journey and and I I have I have invested myself into becoming a better person and having

00:39:48 better standards

00:39:50 but I I continually

00:39:52 Find myself getting into relationships where I'm

00:39:56 Being lied to or maybe I'm not paying attention

00:40:01 Okay, so what's reality? What's your process of?

00:40:04 evaluating a

00:40:07 Dating partner. I mean, let's just say after you started listening to what I do or other people who would give you that

00:40:12 These are the red flags bad childhood unprocessed still have abuses in their life

00:40:16 You know this guy who's screaming at his mother or whatever, right?

00:40:19 So what is your process or what was your process after being exposed to here's how to?

00:40:24 Filter for dysfunctional people. What's your process for evaluating a guy that you want a date or what was your process?

00:40:32 Well, I would say like the first step in that process was obviously like unpacking my relationship with my father and understanding the difference between

00:40:41 feeling like something is familiar and

00:40:44 Genuinely loving a person because they're a good person. So I'd say like now I look for somebody who is

00:40:50 Confident who knows what they want who?

00:40:56 appears to be honest

00:40:58 Who values?

00:41:01 family

00:41:02 Over hedonism. Yeah, but people can say whatever stuff. I know. How do you have to evaluate?

00:41:09 Independent of what someone says, right?

00:41:11 Right, so, you know that if you were running a bank, right people always come and say I want a loan and you'll say okay

00:41:17 Well, what's your collateral and if they say I have a billion dollars buried in my backyard

00:41:21 Well, you might want a little bit of evidence for that right? Right so people can say whatever they want. So what's your empirical approach?

00:41:28 to

00:41:31 Checking for red flags and trying to find out if somebody's trustworthy

00:41:34 Well

00:41:37 Most recently I think I've been kind of looking for signs of material

00:41:43 wealth

00:41:45 looking for somebody you're

00:41:47 Your father had material wealth and there was no wealth. Sorry in your in your boyfriend's family

00:41:53 There was some material wealth so money doesn't mean stability. So no and I've certainly never said anything like that. I've never said like

00:42:00 The other guy with with the most money is always the most mentally healthy

00:42:04 So no, but you have said like people who are smart will make more money than people who are not

00:42:10 Yes, but people who are smart can also be horribly manipulative and like intelligence without virtue is at great danger, right?

00:42:17 So right. So how do you go about evaluating? I

00:42:20 Guess after that, I guess after that I look at like their their lifestyle schedule, you know, like are they?

00:42:30 Working every day. Do they exercise do they take care of their?

00:42:35 Health do they have any vices like that would probably be the next things I would look for

00:42:41 I don't usually date people obviously who drink or who smoke because it's not

00:42:46 Not compatible with me and then I suppose the next thing I would do is look at like how they treat other people

00:42:52 What they think about of course

00:42:57 Like peaceful parenting

00:42:59 Like I mean, I will usually ask people directly like were you assaulted as a child and would you assault your own children or have you?

00:43:06 Assaulted your own children because that's definitely a deal-breaker for me. Oh, you mean if they have children and have assaulted them

00:43:13 Yeah, okay

00:43:15 So you would it's a guy having kids and not being married is that someone you would date and marry into is that right?

00:43:22 No, but in my 30s. I've been open to

00:43:26 Dating people who were married before and are divorced and which is kind of

00:43:33 Yeah, and which is definitely a red flag for me because I feel like well, obviously you walked away from your responsibility and your commitment

00:43:41 To your marriage. Okay. So why why is none of your evaluation of pretend your potential partners having to do with their childhoods?

00:43:48 Um, I

00:43:52 Don't know. I mean, I definitely ask people like usually if I go on a date within the first date

00:43:56 I'm gonna ask them about like who their parents were and what their childhood was like. Do they have siblings?

00:44:01 like did they have a happy childhood and

00:44:03 I think that

00:44:06 Generally people tell me that they did have a pretty okay childhood. But if they told me that they didn't

00:44:11 then that might be an area where I could

00:44:16 Maybe make an error in judgment. I might well

00:44:19 No, but if somebody says I had a good childhood you've what was good about it. What was bad about it?

00:44:23 How were you disciplined? You know that kind of stuff, right? Yeah, and if they say well I was beaten and I damn well deserved it

00:44:28 Well, that's your right get out of jail free charge, right?

00:44:31 Exactly. So yeah. Yeah, the fact that they say they had a good childhood you say well, you know

00:44:35 What were the details and what actually happened and?

00:44:37 Right. Well like the last person I dated he said that he didn't get assaulted in

00:44:45 his childhood

00:44:47 Because his mother passed away when he was 10 years old. And so his father

00:44:52 Sort of showed him mercy and that his father had assaulted his other siblings, but that he was never

00:44:59 Treated that way so I took that

00:45:03 In a way that was like he

00:45:07 Mustn't have a tendency to be

00:45:13 Aggressive wait, sorry that mean that that's just the beginning of the evaluation

00:45:17 Right. So if the guy says well, I wasn't assaulted my mother died

00:45:22 But my father beat the hell out of my siblings, right? Right. Then what's the next question?

00:45:28 Well, what I asked him was well, what what did he do? Okay, so he beat the kids and and so what's the next question?

00:45:36 Usually at that point I would just say I'm really sorry to hear that

00:45:43 Oh my gosh, I don't know what am I supposed to say? I'm Stefan Molyneux. I run the show called free domain. Nice to meet you

00:45:50 Apparently we haven't met before

00:45:52 What's the next question? I don't know. I'm getting brain fog. Okay, the next question is

00:45:58 Are you still in contact with an unrepentant child abuser if your father hasn't apologized made amends paid for therapy all that kind of stuff

00:46:07 Right, right. Isn't that the next question?

00:46:09 Yes, okay in the case of the last question. Well in the case of the last person his father had passed away

00:46:16 So I didn't ask

00:46:19 Okay, did you confront your father about his abuse?

00:46:23 Like I should ask yeah, of course if they can see he's normalized it maybe he's internalized it maybe he's defending it

00:46:33 Right, and he had like he he definitely felt that at the time. That was the way parents did things and that it wasn't

00:46:41 Excessive. Okay, and he also he saw his siblings being beaten and he justified it

00:46:47 Yeah, okay. So check please we're gone, right, right?

00:46:51 Yeah, okay, but I I didn't do that. Okay, so you didn't do that. So what happened?

00:46:56 No, I was just the guy who ended up being mean to everyone. No, this is the guy who ended up being married

00:47:01 Yeah

00:47:03 Okay, and how long ago was this so we broke up six months ago and how long did you date for

00:47:10 Almost two years and when in those two years that you find out he was married

00:47:15 Right right around the end. Oh

00:47:18 Come on

00:47:20 No, yeah, so come on you dated for two years. Yeah, he was married. So he told well he told me he was separated

00:47:26 but that he didn't want to

00:47:29 Fully go through with like like moving out and dividing everything until he had found someone

00:47:35 That he really wanted to be with and he told me that his wife was also

00:47:41 Sort of seeing other people. Okay, that wasn't true. I

00:47:46 Don't know all the details about their relationship. I just know that what happened was we were out

00:47:52 So you didn't this guy? Sorry you're dating this guy for two years and he's still living with his wife

00:47:59 Yeah, he says it's like this open

00:48:01 Relationship or something. Well, he says that they

00:48:04 were separated and that they're no longer having an intimate relationship because she doesn't want to do that and

00:48:13 So they agreed that they would be open

00:48:17 to finding someone else and and to

00:48:21 Divorcing in a very peaceful way. Okay, so so, you know how you check that right?

00:48:25 No

00:48:28 Contact her. Yeah, of course. I

00:48:30 Know but I don't know why I felt like it wasn't my place to do that

00:48:34 But looking back I realized it wasn't your place to do that first

00:48:37 I mean, no you you you you don't have to contact her like hi. I'm dating your husband or anything like that

00:48:43 but

00:48:45 If the guy says it's an open relationship

00:48:48 Then he'll have no problem you coming over to his house, right? I

00:48:54 Guess so, but he had no logically logically logically. Okay. So then you say, okay, I'll

00:49:00 Next time I'll I'll come in and I'll have a cup of coffee at your place and then we'll head out

00:49:05 right, I

00:49:08 Don't know I mean he told me that he hadn't told her about me

00:49:11 But he told me that he had told his sisters about me and he had told his daughters about me

00:49:16 Throughout the person really hang on so he said that

00:49:22 His wife was fine with him dating but he hadn't told her that he's dating

00:49:27 Yeah, because he said he wanted to be sure

00:49:30 that it was like

00:49:33 Something that he wanted to move on to but he told his children

00:49:36 That's what he said. Okay, so if he told his children then he's sure

00:49:41 Because it's harder to tell your kids than your wife, right? I

00:49:45 Imagine okay. So then you'd go over and be no problem going to his house, right?

00:49:52 Yeah, and he had sort of tentatively made plans for me to like meet his sister and

00:49:58 He wanted to meet my father which I

00:50:04 mean

00:50:05 I know this is gonna be another big red flag for you because I had he was aware of the abuse I experienced but he still

00:50:10 Wanted me to sort of sentimentalize

00:50:12 my parents so he you know had told me he wanted to meet my father and ask his father if he could marry me and

00:50:18 sorry, ask my father if he could marry me and

00:50:22 And I don't know looking back I just feel like the really stupid what is your relationship with your parents

00:50:28 So at this point my mother

00:50:31 Refuses to speak to me because I refuse to

00:50:37 have like a false relationship with her where

00:50:41 she gaslights me and I pretend like everything's fine and

00:50:45 She specifically said to me like I don't want to talk to you anymore

00:50:49 I probably only have like 10 years to live and I just want to be

00:50:52 Left alone. So I guess that makes it easier for me to do the right thing and to not

00:50:59 Pretend like she didn't abuse me and then my dad I

00:51:05 Try my best to distance myself from him, but he still wants

00:51:11 To have a relationship with me. So I'm just in this weird limbo with him

00:51:15 We're all go, you know, like two weeks or the longest maybe three weeks and then I'll have

00:51:21 some

00:51:24 casual conversation with him about the weather and

00:51:27 then feel like super traumatized and

00:51:30 Then just avoid

00:51:33 avoid him and actually the last time we spoke was the first time we ever really had like a major breakthrough where I

00:51:40 pretty much said to him like

00:51:43 I'm really hurt by

00:51:45 The things that you did and it's cost me a lot in my life and I could tell that he felt

00:51:52 Like sad and by that but I don't I don't think

00:51:59 We can never really work through

00:52:03 The damage that's been done. So yeah, I'm just kind of in this loop of

00:52:11 Gaslighting myself and feeling guilty and feeling sad and sorry that I am

00:52:16 Avoiding him because he's older and I know he wants to speak with me

00:52:22 Regularly, but he doesn't want to have any real conversations

00:52:27 And why are you obligated to speak with him? I'm not sure I follow. I don't I don't think

00:52:36 I'm obligated. But if there is something in me that feels that way it's probably related to like a spiritual

00:52:43 Idea that he's my father and that our relationship is sacred despite all of the abuse and that

00:52:51 it's wrong for me to

00:52:53 Reject him and abandon him even though yes, he did that to me as a child

00:52:59 100% in so many ways, but it's just really hard for me

00:53:05 To put the nail

00:53:07 In the coffin I still I'm struggling

00:53:10 Sorry, are you saying that there's the things that he empirically did to you which were terrible?

00:53:16 yeah, and but then there's this silvery ghost of

00:53:20 father daughter

00:53:23 That overlays the actual relationship you had and you have loyalty to that

00:53:27 Idea of or this was it the spiritual like there's a soul in the relationship. That's independent of the actions

00:53:35 Yes, well, that's just mysticism

00:53:37 Right. I know I

00:53:39 Tried about a special painful. I don't know why it's so painful. You would think the normal reaction would be that I would

00:53:46 Be

00:53:48 Happy, it's weird because it's like if I if I speak to him, I'm super traumatized and upset after speaking to him

00:53:56 but

00:53:58 when I completely don't speak to him and I feel like I'm

00:54:03 Abandoning him that also is unpleasant in a different way

00:54:08 So I well no, I mean, I mean you you have made up a bunch of nonsense about this ghost in the relationship

00:54:17 that's different from the actual behavior, but I

00:54:19 Mean, let's say you meet a quality man, right?

00:54:23 Yeah, likes you admires you obviously excellent verbal and intellectual skills and so on right and

00:54:29 And

00:54:31 He sees your relationship with your father and

00:54:37 What's he gonna think

00:54:41 Well, if he's a really a good man and he really loves me he's gonna think that it's not healthy for me to

00:54:47 Maintain a relationship with my father because there's all this unresolved

00:54:52 trauma and

00:54:55 pretty much

00:54:57 The abuse is still there. Like if I if I challenge my father

00:55:00 It will very quickly escalate into him abusing me and if I'm in his present, he's still bullying you. Yeah

00:55:08 Yeah, okay

00:55:11 So so and I think I realized it cost you quality man in your life

00:55:16 It may I mean, oh no, I know no, no, it's not me it does

00:55:25 It's definitely crossed my mind that maybe I've always sort of chosen men that are not

00:55:30 Going to confront my father

00:55:33 Well, I don't I mean I mean if you and I were dating I wouldn't feel any obligation to confront your father

00:55:41 But I'd say look you if if we're gonna be together you need to be loyal to me

00:55:46 Because I'm a good guy I've earned it

00:55:51 I'm a moral man. You need to be loyal to me and I don't want you bleeding off loyalty to this jerk. I

00:55:57 Don't want you under his thumb. I don't want you under my thumb, but I sure as heck don't want you under his thumb

00:56:03 Yeah

00:56:06 It makes perfect sense

00:56:07 And I will want this abuser to come in regularly and take a wrecking ball to our relationship

00:56:13 Right because then there's no stability you you can't have stability. You can't relax. You can't pair bond. You can't trust you can't love

00:56:21 Because you always oh my god, the phone's ringing. Is it my like is it my dad?

00:56:24 You know, you just we can't build anything because your father's gonna keep knocking it down

00:56:27 Yeah, no, absolutely

00:56:31 Absolutely. It's something that I just kind of

00:56:34 Try to deal with sometimes and other times I just ignore it because then the problem gets deeper. It's like well

00:56:40 I know what I'm saying because now you're just going off on another verbal tear here

00:56:44 Sorry, no, I mean I I am hearing what you're saying. Okay. So what are you getting out of what I'm saying?

00:56:51 Well, I'm getting that I can't have a relationship with my father

00:56:54 While having a relationship with a healthy man that loves me. Okay. So what do you think of that?

00:57:02 well, I think that I'm willing to

00:57:06 to

00:57:09 Not have a relationship with my father

00:57:13 But I it feels very painful

00:57:17 So

00:57:19 It's like, you know, I

00:57:23 Suppose that why why is it why is it painful?

00:57:29 Well, I think I tell myself

00:57:33 Like I think I create excuses right for my dad

00:57:40 and like the way that he grew up and

00:57:45 Blah blah blah blah blah is the reason why even though yes, he had free will he has total control over his actions

00:57:53 Like he's you understand that when you give excuses to your father you take excuses for yourself

00:57:59 This is why you say you honestly ridiculous stuff like well, it took me this amount of time and this is just excuses

00:58:04 Yeah, I mean, you know how to evaluate a guy and and I'm a phone call away

00:58:15 Right. I know so you you could you could have called me up years ago and said well, there's this guy

00:58:20 What do you think and I'd say well, you know, here's some questions that I would ask right?

00:58:25 So you didn't do that, right?

00:58:28 No, now what you do is you say well

00:58:31 I wasn't ready or it didn't take me that it took me this long to this that and the other it's like no

00:58:36 Because if you say in the past, well, I just wasn't ready and I didn't have to do the right sensible self-protective thing

00:58:43 Then you're gonna say that in the present

00:58:45 So you always have an excuse for not doing the right sensible self-protective thing

00:58:52 No, yeah, and it's it's it's literally stealing a big part of my life away

00:58:58 Well, it's not like 35, right? So but I have kids I

00:59:04 Do I would like to maybe at least you know to have one I've been somehow

00:59:12 Trying to form like a solid relationship no, no

00:59:18 My gosh, listen

00:59:21 Do you want me to go along with this stuff? What do you want me to know?

00:59:24 I mean, I mean I you have not been trying

00:59:27 This is like you have not been trying to become a wife and mother because you've been dating all the wrong guys

00:59:32 It's completely obvious that they're all the wrong guys

00:59:34 You have all the resources to choose better and you've not chosen those things and I can understand that, you know

00:59:39 He had a difficult childhood, but you know, that's 20 years ago

00:59:42 Yeah, I know okay, so so let's not with the well I've I've just I you know, I married the lying married guy

00:59:48 I married the guy who I dated the guy. Sorry. I dated the married lying guy. I dated the stalker guy

00:59:53 I dated the Lutheran musician who hide it hid in his room and I did and but but mysteriously I'm not a wife and mother

00:59:59 You know, but I feel like I was

01:00:04 Like all the other guys I was I think drawn to them because there was something about them that felt familiar

01:00:12 But the last guy I dated I thought I was choosing for like more practical

01:00:17 Reasons which you're choosing a guy still living with his wife. I know but I mean, come on I

01:00:25 Don't know. I was yes, you know

01:00:28 Come on. No, I don't know anyone ask anyone

01:00:33 Is it a good idea?

01:00:36 If you want to get married and have kids to date a guy who's still living with his wife. I

01:00:42 Mean no, of course not

01:00:45 No, I know I don't know why married for for longer than I've been alive

01:00:52 What yeah for 37 years

01:00:57 How old was this guy?

01:01:00 He was 53 when I met him

01:01:02 Oh

01:01:04 What

01:01:08 Yeah, you're you're dating a guy. I yeah, it was 53 still living with his wife of 37 years

01:01:14 And you want to become a wife and mother?

01:01:16 Are you trolling me? I'm so no. No you

01:01:20 Gotta be a prank

01:01:24 I'm just really this messed up. I mean, I'm 57 and 53 seems bloody old

01:01:31 No, I it's because I guess I now have like a bit of low self-esteem

01:01:36 Because I feel like oh, that's another excuse. Oh, no, no self-esteem. It's not that I'm not ready

01:01:43 Why it's not this and that the other you know free will because now it's low self-esteem

01:01:47 Well, I feel like why would I date someone so much?

01:01:50 Older like I I personally feel like if I date someone who's older than me

01:01:55 Maybe maybe not that much older, but if I did someone who's older than me, they're gonna appreciate me more

01:02:00 They're gonna have more stability

01:02:02 It's gonna be sorry did he want your father again

01:02:06 so he did like that was one of the first things he said he has two daughters and

01:02:13 They're grown up, uh-huh, and he wanted to have a son that's what he wanted

01:02:21 Okay, and is he wealthy?

01:02:24 Yes, okay, and

01:02:27 He was I guess relatively attractive

01:02:30 Well, we got along we had okay so not that attractive because you went no, but but I definitely I definitely

01:02:36 Really liked him until I realized that I was just making another stupid mistake. And now I'm kind of

01:02:43 Upset for sure. I don't think I would date him again

01:02:48 Like I think you don't think you would date him again, but you know

01:02:52 I mean like if if he came back and was like, oh, you know, I want to marry you and I

01:02:59 I've

01:03:00 Dealt with my divorce. I would be fine

01:03:02 Lied to me. Yeah, and he's 55. Okay. Do you think it's hugely responsible to have a kid with a guy who's 55?

01:03:10 no, and we did talk about that and how you know a child needs to have a father and I mean

01:03:18 He's lucky to make it the graduation of high school, right? And and you know, those are some seriously creaky dino sperms, right?

01:03:24 They are

01:03:28 They are but he was promising me a certain kind of life and I thought that he hang on hang on

01:03:35 What do you mean a certain kind of life?

01:03:37 well

01:03:39 he like his daughters went to private school and

01:03:42 I would say they went to Harvard's bribing you and I wouldn't say bribing he was offering you money

01:03:49 Well, he was offering a certain kind of life which cost

01:03:54 Which cost money? Okay. Yeah, so you were hoping to strike that was part of it

01:03:59 Wasn't hoping to strike it rich. I was hoping to live comfortably and to know that my child would

01:04:07 have all the resources they needed at their disposal to

01:04:12 Have security in their life and maybe it was like you you wanted you wanted to go with money. I

01:04:19 Suppose so I wouldn't I don't think I really looked at it like oh, I'm gonna strike it rich

01:04:24 I looked at it like this guy can afford to

01:04:27 Give me a great life with ease and we get along really well

01:04:32 Okay

01:04:34 I'm not saying that the guy was terrible, although it turns out he was

01:04:37 But you wouldn't have date him if he was not wealthy if he was not wealthy

01:04:42 I wouldn't have dated him

01:04:44 But there's a lot of guys that I wouldn't date that are younger and better looking that I also wouldn't date if they didn't have

01:04:52 financial

01:04:54 Stability. Okay, because that was a big problem for me in my other relationship. You want a guy with money. So he's got to be

01:05:01 Wealthy and

01:05:05 Listen, I'm not I'm not

01:05:07 Saying good or bad right or wrong. I'm just that's a standard, right?

01:05:10 Yeah, I would like him to be well, he's gonna bring he's got to bring himself plus money to the relationship

01:05:15 And what are you bringing plus?

01:05:17 Yeah, and he's also got to be pretty outstanding as a person and I'm bringing me which is I'm also an outstanding person

01:05:26 I do both bring you hang on. So you're both bringing you

01:05:30 Yeah, and he's got to bring money, too

01:05:33 Yeah, he's definitely

01:05:39 What is the extra that you're bringing for the money

01:05:42 Well, I feel like I don't really need to bring extra if we're gonna share the

01:05:51 roles in the relationship

01:05:53 Technically I could hang on hang on I just need to see this from the man's perspective if you want right

01:06:01 So he's got to be him plus let's say a million dollars, right?

01:06:06 Okay, what whatever amount of money asset whatever yeah, he's got to be him plus a million dollars

01:06:11 So what are you bringing? That's worth a million dollars to him because he's got to be him plus a million dollars

01:06:19 So what are you bringing? That's plus that is worth the million dollars for him

01:06:23 well, hopefully if we

01:06:27 get along then I bring a lot of joy and

01:06:32 Nurturing and well, no no because that's equal. He's gonna be

01:06:35 Okay

01:06:39 It's not that I have no money like if I wanted to I could we could have like a modern relationship

01:06:45 Where we both work full-time and you want to be home and have kids, right?

01:06:50 Ideally, I would like to find someone that sees a value in that that actually so what is he getting happy? What is he getting?

01:06:57 That's plus plus plus for the million dollars

01:07:01 Well currently I'm looking for somebody who wants to have a family and who was looking for someone they think would be a great

01:07:08 mother and a great wife

01:07:10 Right, but he has to be a great husband and father plus have a million dollars

01:07:14 Okay, well I definitely have more savings than the average

01:07:19 Person so it's not like I have no money

01:07:22 like if we're talking about just money, it's not like I'm like

01:07:28 Totally destitute and unstable and and looking for okay, but you need him to pay right I

01:07:33 Would I would like him to earn enough money that?

01:07:39 We're not gonna find ourselves in a situation where we can't afford like basic

01:07:45 Necessities. No, I get it. I'm not am I this is a criticism at all? No, I'm just you want him

01:07:51 You want him to individual you want private schools and you want a nice neighborhood and you want a nice house and you want two

01:07:57 Cars and and I've no issue with any of this at all. I just want to be clear

01:08:00 I mean I do I could compromise on that a little bit for the fruit an exceptional person

01:08:07 But I I feel like the two go kind of go hand in hand at my age

01:08:10 Okay, so you want him to provide right?

01:08:13 I'd like him to be able to provide. Yes. Okay, and

01:08:17 What do you bring that makes him want to provide for you?

01:08:22 Well loyalty

01:08:26 commitment

01:08:28 What does he have of that based on your life so far

01:08:33 Well

01:08:36 He wouldn't have really any

01:08:38 Evidence per se he would he would have what I tell him about my life

01:08:44 Well, no, I've never I've never cheated on any of my partners

01:08:49 Okay, I was but your partner's lately loyal your partners have killed themselves

01:08:54 Like yeah, you been drug addicts been absolutely through musicians

01:08:58 Been like psychos who who yell at strangers, right? Totally. Okay. So what?

01:09:05 Evidence, do you have to bring to a guy of means and quality that you can sustain a relationship with a healthy man?

01:09:13 You know like currently the people that I've been chatting with and

01:09:19 And who are prospecting me and vice versa. Tell me that I am a very intelligent

01:09:26 Charming person and that I make them happy and that they love spending time with me. Yes, but and that they want to

01:09:32 You bring the relationship I absolutely accept that okay. Yeah, there's the man also bring personal qualities to the relationship. I

01:09:45 Would hope so enough that we're not able

01:09:49 Okay, so you saying well I bring him joy well he's gonna bring you joy that cancels out right

01:09:55 Okay. So in terms of the money, it's I I don't really know what cancels out money because like I said

01:10:03 I mean I do have money and if I wanted to I could work for no, but you want let's say you want

01:10:08 Hang on. Sorry interrupt. Let's say that you want two kids and you want him to provide for 10 to 15 years, right?

01:10:14 And I want him to enjoy it. No, no

01:10:17 I'm like, I don't want let's took many material material practical. Okay, okay

01:10:22 So he's gonna have to bring a lot of assets and a lot of income

01:10:26 To the table, right? Yeah

01:10:29 And I have no assets to inherit and no

01:10:34 Strong bond with a family. I have none of that

01:10:38 My you know, you're no hang on. You're a 35 year old woman still half terrorized by your dad

01:10:46 Yes, okay

01:10:48 See now I'm brain fogging like I have no idea

01:10:52 What that's supposed to imply I very much want you to get married and have kids

01:10:57 Thank you. I very much. I really I'm really so glad I had the courage to

01:11:03 Do this Hail Mary? Yeah, I wish I wish you'd done it ten years ago

01:11:08 more than we did but I

01:11:12 Want you to get married and to have a family

01:11:15 But you have to be realistic

01:11:18 Okay, what does that mean so

01:11:23 You need a guy

01:11:27 Not too old right somewhere between 30 and 40

01:11:30 Making probably six figures

01:11:33 Okay, right

01:11:36 Who's yeah

01:11:40 Intelligent and affectionate and you know probably comes from a healthy family or at least has done a lot of work on himself, right?

01:11:47 Yeah

01:11:49 Now you want the very top tier of top tier guys, right? I

01:11:54 Do yeah, right

01:11:57 Now the very top tier of top tier guys

01:12:00 Has an almost infinite number of options you're in competition everyone

01:12:06 That's true, but I am exceptional

01:12:10 Like it's not like the the men that I go for aren't interested in me right now

01:12:17 Where I'm at is just trying to figure out like am I?

01:12:19 Choosing people for the right reasons

01:12:23 Okay, so the word exceptional is not a magic word that has a guy choose you

01:12:32 Okay

01:12:34 right

01:12:38 Well, I do I just I just find like the people that I'm currently

01:12:42 Speaking with they seem to really really like me

01:12:46 You mean the men who you might be able to marry?

01:12:50 Yeah, so I've been I've been chatting with some people. There's one person that's sort of at the forefront. He's 47 a

01:12:59 bit old or

01:13:02 but not as old as the last guy and

01:13:06 He went to Princeton

01:13:08 He is in AI

01:13:10 He's been divorced for six years. He has three

01:13:13 children 14 18 21 and

01:13:16 He says he's looking for the love of his life and he wants to

01:13:21 Have a child

01:13:24 And he seems to really really like me

01:13:27 So, okay, so

01:13:32 Then you probably don't need my advice

01:13:35 but I think I do because every time I

01:13:38 Get into a relationship. I think it's so great and then I find out it's not and then I find myself

01:13:45 Looking back and thinking. Oh there were these

01:13:48 Red flags. It's like how do I?

01:13:50 How do I know?

01:13:53 Okay, so let's call a I will call him Chad. All right. Okay. So what's Chad's childhood like?

01:14:03 He

01:14:05 Said that he had a good relationship with his parents. I haven't specifically asked him

01:14:10 How long have you known Chad?

01:14:13 We've only been chatting for about a month. Okay, and you haven't met

01:14:17 No, okay, he's some more remote place. Well, he lives in LA and

01:14:24 I am gonna be visiting LA next month

01:14:29 So I started chatting with people who live in LA and he and I happen to hit it off

01:14:34 so we're gonna meet when I'm

01:14:37 down there traveling and he says that

01:14:40 If we get along as well in person as we do on the phone and through messages

01:14:46 Then he would be willing to come visit me here

01:14:49 And then we could sort of build our relationship that way and I've said I would be willing to move there

01:14:57 If we got married

01:14:59 And he says he is looking to get married

01:15:01 Okay, got it

01:15:04 Good

01:15:06 But he also said that his wife was very difficult. His ex-wife was very difficult and that she was especially difficult in

01:15:15 the divorce

01:15:17 And he still so kids who were kids, right

01:15:21 Yeah, he has a 14 year old. It's their 50/50

01:15:26 custody, okay

01:15:28 Okay, and how long ago did he get divorced?

01:15:31 Six years six years. Okay. Yeah, do you know if he's dated in the interim?

01:15:37 He says that he has but none of the relationships have worked out. They were all short-term

01:15:44 He didn't feel like a love a deep love connection

01:15:49 With any of them, okay

01:15:54 And you don't know much about his childhood other than he says he got along with his parents, yeah

01:16:00 Why do you think you haven't asked him more about his childhood I

01:16:06 Maybe have just been looking at the positive things. Mm-hmm, and maybe I should

01:16:17 Just be more assertive and ask him

01:16:23 more serious

01:16:25 questions

01:16:26 Been fun and flirty and all of that and there's nothing wrong with that

01:16:29 but not at the expense of really finding out about the person and

01:16:32 Right. What does he know about you and your family and your dating history?

01:16:37 So I pretty much told him everything

01:16:40 That I could have told him within the time that we've been speaking like I'm very open about

01:16:46 Who I am because I know that it makes me a bit complicated

01:16:51 So I don't I don't bother

01:16:53 falsifying any of that and he

01:16:56 says that

01:16:59 He understands that I don't for example have a relationship with my mother

01:17:05 But I I definitely get the feeling see here's see here's a red flag

01:17:09 That I have been kind of ignoring. So it's like he said to me like would would your mom?

01:17:15 help you

01:17:17 like raise

01:17:20 Our child if we had a child and I said, I really don't think my mom

01:17:24 Would want to do that or that?

01:17:27 So he did he knows that your mother was like pretty horrible and abusive, right? Yeah. Yeah

01:17:32 So why would he then say he would want your mother around his kids?

01:17:35 I don't know because I thought he was just being like like sentimental like like who wouldn't want

01:17:42 Someone's

01:17:46 Parents or your child's grandparents around maybe so he chose a difficult wife to be the mother of his children and he

01:17:53 Doesn't seem to process that your mother is abusive and would be negative for his future children

01:17:59 Yeah, like I felt like where we left it was that if things move forward with us

01:18:07 He's going to want to potentially like meet my mother and try to try to make things, right? Oh

01:18:12 He wants to

01:18:15 I mean he didn't say that but that was kind of the

01:18:18 The subtext I got from what he said that he didn't want to say

01:18:22 Well, he just kind of said I said, I don't think my mother, you know

01:18:27 Would would want to do that or that?

01:18:29 It would be a good idea that she did that like the last time I spoke to her

01:18:32 She just said she didn't want to speak to me anymore

01:18:35 And he was just like, okay. Well like I'm sure

01:18:41 That if you talk to her things could change and I was like, I really don't think that they will because I'm certainly

01:18:46 so he's like

01:18:49 You need to fix things with your mom and I know better than you and I've chatted with you for a couple of weeks. I

01:18:54 Suppose so I said and I just completely brushed over that like we'll just deal with that in

01:19:01 The future. Okay. So why why would you brush over that?

01:19:05 He's telling you that you don't know your relationship with your mother and he knows better

01:19:10 I know but I didn't think of it that way like now that you say it it's like this is so obvious

01:19:14 But at the time I just thought oh, he probably just doesn't understand the severity of what I'm talking about and I'm gonna have to like

01:19:20 Really unpack it

01:19:23 for him and

01:19:25 Then he'll understand

01:19:27 All right

01:19:30 That was my do you know if he's ever done any therapy

01:19:34 He said that he did go to therapy after his divorce and that he's back in therapy now because he's having a really hard time

01:19:42 with his

01:19:43 18 year old child. I guess there's like tension between them

01:19:49 So he's currently going to therapy

01:19:52 to help him manage

01:19:54 that

01:19:56 right

01:19:59 He hasn't specifically told me why they're fighting he just said it's like it has to do with the divorce and

01:20:05 That she feels like he didn't do

01:20:08 What he should have done

01:20:11 to keep

01:20:13 his marriage together

01:20:15 But he says he's done everything he did everything he could do

01:20:18 So but see now Steph it went from sounding like a great idea

01:20:22 like this this AI

01:20:25 guy who

01:20:27 Is enthusiastic about me to just another one of these

01:20:31 Situations where there's all these red flags everywhere that I'm no no, I haven't said anything

01:20:36 I'm I mean, I I don't know. I mean, I guess so he feels he did everything right in his marriage and

01:20:44 The blame is on his wife

01:20:47 Thought that's the main red flag. I would say yeah, that's not great. No

01:20:56 I'm perfect. She just went crazy. That's pretty much it. Yeah, and I know better than you

01:21:03 About your mother

01:21:06 Yeah, so you see I should probably just stop no if if no, I mean just be honest with the guy

01:21:12 And say what and say you're

01:21:16 You're not nice talk on the I mean quote phone or do you just text

01:21:24 So we have talked on the phone

01:21:26 but I have said I I don't really want to talk on the phone every day because I don't I don't really want to like

01:21:32 Develop a strong attachment to him before I actually meet him. So we talk once a week and then we text once a day

01:21:41 So you've had three or four conversations with him by phone. Yeah

01:21:46 They were long conversations like we definitely have a great rapport we kind of have to like stop

01:21:54 The conversation or it could just go on forever. I'd say our short

01:21:57 Much are you self-suppressing?

01:22:00 Probably a lot like now that I'm thinking about all of this

01:22:04 I mean already there's been a few instances right where I just completely brushed my own feelings and alarms

01:22:11 I'm well, you know the guy says I did everything right in the divorce. I did everything right to the marriage

01:22:16 I'd be like, okay, like, you know, that's a bit of a red flag, right?

01:22:20 I mean you could be positive about it and kind of funny about it, right?

01:22:23 Yeah, you know like I mean

01:22:26 You know, I mean maybe in divorces there are some people who act a little better than the others

01:22:31 But the idea that there's an angel and a devil it's not very reassuring

01:22:35 No, because it's false. It has to be

01:22:38 dishonest

01:22:40 Well, and then this is probably why his 18 year old is having problems with him. Exactly

01:22:46 But then I look at myself and I'm like, okay. Yeah, sure

01:22:49 I'm really smart and I'm successful in my own right and I'm beautiful and I I know I make a great

01:22:54 partner

01:22:56 But what are my options right and it's like this guy seems amazing

01:23:01 So I think this is what I always do maybe is I I just feel like

01:23:06 Limited or I have low self-esteem or whatever you want to call it and then I go

01:23:12 Self-esteem thing. I mean you're magical and magnificent and wonderful and beautiful

01:23:16 Yeah, and I don't see how that fits with the low self-esteem thing

01:23:19 But then why would I just ignore all of those red flags and tell myself? Well, this is probably a really good

01:23:25 Match and you should know why I do I desperately do. Oh, okay, because if you're

01:23:33 Okay, how does that

01:23:36 Because you suppress yourself with your dad. You can't be honest with your dad. You can't be direct with your dad

01:23:41 So that's your standard and you're willing to accept that and that's fine for you. So that's what you get. And so

01:23:47 You can't self-express with these guys. You can't be yourself. You can't be skeptical

01:23:52 Which you should be and they should be right

01:23:55 Yeah, so

01:23:58 With your dad, you're like, oh, well if he wants me to not say things, I just won't say things

01:24:02 Right. So then with these guys if there's something that you disagree with you're like, oh, I guess I better shut up because

01:24:10 That's my standard with my dad

01:24:12 Yeah, it really is like a total mirror of that yeah, but then how do you think I should go about

01:24:18 Dealing with this situation with my father like do you think

01:24:23 If I completely stop talking to my father that I would stop

01:24:29 Gaslighting myself are you asking me to tell you to do? No, I'm not asking you. Okay good

01:24:35 Do you think that the solution or could be or do you think that it would be helpful if I just completely?

01:24:41 Stop speaking with him or is there something I should say?

01:24:45 first that might be

01:24:48 How does he I mean you're 35 years old, right? Yeah, and

01:24:52 When was the last time you said something and he got aggressive?

01:24:56 So I spoke to him two weeks ago and we kind of had a bit of a

01:25:03 Heart to heart but I could tell if I continued

01:25:06 Speaking on the subject his sadness would quickly turn to anger and violence. So I just backed away

01:25:13 Okay, so

01:25:15 He's continuing to bully you

01:25:17 right

01:25:19 So what's there

01:25:22 Just a false hope what do you mean a false hope like a false hope that one day he's just gonna

01:25:32 Get it. Oh

01:25:34 Magic will happen and the bad guy turns into a good guy. Yes, which is your whole dating strategy. I

01:25:40 Guess so. Well, it is right. I

01:25:43 Mean apparently no, no don't apparently me. Don't don't fog me now. So I mean

01:25:48 Don't don't don't go fuck you on me now. That's what it looks like, right?

01:25:52 That's clearly you date these guys and you have a magic is gonna turn them into good guys

01:25:57 Has it ever happened?

01:26:00 No, so why are you still believing in stuff that never happens? Well, I don't know. It's like look at this guy, right?

01:26:05 This is AI guy. He seems great

01:26:08 But it's like actually he's probably just the exact same kind of person that I keep dating over and over again

01:26:13 So I should you probably back away. You're scared of

01:26:16 And if you can't be honest

01:26:19 It's because you're scared of them

01:26:25 Yeah, and then you say gee these guys turn out to be unreliable manipulative and aggressive and it's like but from the very beginning

01:26:32 You're scared and it's not because you're a coward right? I mean you brave woman you've taken on a lot in your life

01:26:40 But it's because you have that central principle with your mother

01:26:43 That I got up I

01:26:48 appease I

01:26:50 Don't confront. I'm not honest. I cross my fingers and wait for magic to happen

01:26:55 You

01:26:56 Yeah, and it's totally it's it's ruined a big part of my life. Well, you've been doing this for 20 years with your dating

01:27:01 Yeah, right. Yeah, maybe the coke addict will magically become fine. Maybe the the the failed musician will suddenly become

01:27:10 Successful, maybe the guy who's really aggressive will suddenly turn nice

01:27:15 Yeah, maybe the guy who's still living with his wife of 37 years is a great prospect for a husband and a father

01:27:24 I know it's so insane. No, it's not insane at all. It's just based on

01:27:28 This is the price you have

01:27:30 of appeasing your father

01:27:33 Like I personally I don't have people in my life that I have to appease

01:27:37 Right is that would spread everywhere

01:27:40 Was it was it very easy for you to make the decision to

01:27:50 Stop talking to your mom like I've been listening to you for a while

01:27:53 And I I know you've said there was a time that you actually tried to help her. Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. I

01:27:59 Earned I earned my way out with great honor

01:28:02 So was there like was there just a point where you realized that you had to just completely

01:28:09 Not speak to her and did you just simply have to do that thing? What do you mean have to I?

01:28:16 Mean for your own well-being I mean, I just didn't want to talk to her anymore

01:28:22 Because I tried my best and I was as direct and honest and she just escalated and

01:28:28 Manipulated and light and gas lit and then ended up throwing things around the room and it's like, okay. Well, I

01:28:34 Can't do anything here

01:28:37 Yeah, and I feel like that's pretty much where I'm at

01:28:41 with my

01:28:43 Dad, but I I just for some reason I have this deep sense of

01:28:48 Guilt

01:28:51 Okay about okay. So you understand these mechanics, right? So

01:28:54 It's nothing to do with you. It's not you. It's not your sense of guilt

01:28:58 There's no big silver ghost of a relationship that that you believe in you are used to complying with your dad because he's terrifying

01:29:05 Yeah, yeah, you comply with him because you're scared

01:29:12 So he wants you to stick around

01:29:15 He wants you to stick around what's the benefit to you? Well, you can't tell the truth you can't be honest

01:29:23 You can't be direct and it has a huge ripple effect on your other relationships

01:29:26 When was the last time you had a problem you went to your father and you got some really great advice

01:29:31 Never I don't think okay, so he's not parented you know, so he's not a parent

01:29:37 He's a sperm donor. He lived in the same house

01:29:41 but he didn't parent you because parenting you is

01:29:44 Giving you guidance and and wisdom and being helpful as a resource for your life to get better

01:29:50 Right, so he's not he didn't parent you

01:29:54 No

01:29:56 No, I think he usually gives me

01:29:58 Bad advice. Okay, so he actually

01:30:02 Corrupts your decision-making process with bad advice. So he sabotages you I

01:30:08 Guess so. No, no, no, he don't guess so. I'm trying to figure I'm sorry

01:30:13 Right, I think I'm just terrified I think there's a huge part of me that's just constantly living in terror. Yes, I know

01:30:20 And I totally sympathize with that. I really do. I mean you were raised in a terrifying environment

01:30:27 Terrifying

01:30:35 Yeah, I I really got to figure out how I'm gonna

01:30:38 Sever

01:30:43 Sever this this relationship and then there's a part of me that feels like oh, well, he's old right so he's not gonna be around

01:30:50 Forever. Yeah, but don't wait out your fertility window

01:30:54 Yeah, I mean, what does it matter? And that's what does it matter if he dies in 10 years and you're 45

01:31:01 Then you don't get you a family

01:31:04 No, absolutely and you look so half-shot and then you got to start dating 70 year olds and circling them

01:31:10 Yeah, you can't live forever

01:31:16 Yeah, I know and that's not what I want for myself and it's certainly not what I envisioned for myself

01:31:25 You know in my youth when I still had my whole life

01:31:27 Ahead of me

01:31:31 So I it was really helpful

01:31:34 For you to point out that I actually am constantly

01:31:37 Avoiding confrontation while I'm getting to know this you think it's confrontation

01:31:43 Because if your father's so aggressive as a confrontation just telling the truth, listen, I mean have I been fairly blunt with you?

01:31:49 Yes, would you call this a confrontation?

01:31:52 No, no, I'm just being honest and you're being honest and I'm trying to be as helpful as possible. I hope I mean I'm not

01:32:00 Trying to be judgy or negative or hostile or all your saving honest as far as I can see

01:32:06 But it's not it's not a big confrontation or like the confrontation is the word we use when there are bullies in the room

01:32:11 right

01:32:14 Yeah

01:32:17 No, you're totally right. This is just it's blowing my mind because I'm looking back at all of these interactions I've had

01:32:24 Where I can actually sense that there might be an emotional outburst and I intentionally avoid

01:32:32 Like I could have for example the guy who was married like I could have

01:32:36 pressed him more

01:32:39 to

01:32:40 integrate me into his life and to

01:32:42 to introduce me to his

01:32:45 kids and his family sooner, but I I didn't push back because I

01:32:51 Well, I could sense that there might be a car like that interrupt you didn't need to do any of that to know he was

01:32:58 a bad guy

01:33:00 And okay, I can tell you how this is this like super magic here, okay

01:33:06 Okay, so I'm gonna put myself in the shoes of a 53 year old guy still living with his wife of 37 years

01:33:14 Right. Okay, and I'm dating this

01:33:17 Pretty 35 year old woman who wants to get married and have kids, right? Yeah now

01:33:23 The first thing that I'm gonna say if I'm legit, right is I'm gonna say look

01:33:29 My living situation is a huge red flag. I know that

01:33:34 I'm still living with my wife of 37 years, right? Yeah

01:33:40 So you have absolutely every reason to be skeptical of what I'm saying

01:33:48 So here's what I'm gonna do

01:33:50 And I know this may be uncomfortable

01:33:52 You don't have to do anything, but I'll tell you what I'm willing to do to prove to you that I'm on the up-and-up

01:33:57 I'm gonna show you the separation papers

01:33:59 I'm

01:34:02 going to

01:34:04 Have my wife email you and tell you that it's fine to date and

01:34:08 If you're not comfortable with that I can set up a very short coffee thing because listen, I mean

01:34:13 I'm not trying to make you uncomfortable, but I'm making these claims here that I'm available while I'm still living with my wife

01:34:18 Yeah, so I'm gonna do everything I can to reassure you that this is all legitimate

01:34:24 Because I'm not an asshole and I don't want to waste a 35 year old woman's fertile years

01:34:30 Did he do any of that?

01:34:33 No, okay. So that's all you need to know

01:34:35 You don't have to confront him the fact that he's not saying

01:34:42 Here's how I'm gonna make you comfortable with this obviously crazy situation

01:34:45 Like you have every reason to be skeptical

01:34:49 So the fact that he wasn't bending over backwards to prove his claims means that his claims were bullshit

01:34:55 Yeah, because if you're legit if you're legit and

01:34:58 and you're in a situation and

01:35:01 You're making these claims

01:35:04 You would prove them to put you at ease

01:35:10 So you don't need to confront anyone you don't and like you would simply say

01:35:14 you would look at this guy and

01:35:17 You'd say I mean first of all, you could just wait and say

01:35:21 Say see if he says I've got proof and here's how I'm gonna reassure you if he doesn't do any of that

01:35:26 Just assume he's lying now. You can if you want say I need proof. Obviously I need proof

01:35:30 I can't just hand over my heart to some guy who's still living with his wife

01:35:33 Lots of guys lie and know nothing personal, but I need proof, right?

01:35:36 Right, but even if you don't do that the fact that he's not offering proof means he's not legit

01:35:41 Yeah, it makes perfect sense

01:35:46 I mean if I say I have a yacht and every time you come down to the marina I say oh no

01:35:51 It's in for repair. Oh, no. I lent it to a friend of mine. Oh, no

01:35:53 right

01:35:56 Yeah, I mean I'm lying

01:35:58 Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense to me

01:36:04 Now I wish it but you're not used to that kind of consideration for your thoughts and feelings

01:36:10 No, I guess I'm not you're not used to people saying I really really need to work to reassure this fine young lady

01:36:17 Because I'm making some pretty wild claims here and I need to really make sure that she understands and is taken care of as well

01:36:24 people putting your needs first

01:36:27 Like I can tell you how to get the AI guy if you want

01:36:32 Well, do I even want him anymore I don't know but I can tell you how to get him or any other man in your

01:36:37 state of stage of life

01:36:39 Okay

01:36:41 Please do

01:36:43 So the way that you get a high quality man is by reducing the number of variables in his life

01:36:50 Okay, so the way you get a high quality man is you bring

01:36:55 uncomplicated devotion

01:36:58 To his happiness and welfare and that's your million dollars

01:37:02 No, that makes perfect sense. You say I'm gonna make your life better. I'm not bringing a complicated father-in-law

01:37:08 I'm not bringing a messy mother-in-law. I don't have kids

01:37:11 Right. I'm ready for family. I'm ready for wife. I I want to support you and make your life better and simpler

01:37:18 I'll do your taxes. I'll run the household

01:37:21 I'll reduce the variables in your life

01:37:23 So you can focus entirely on your success and being a father and your life is going to be a million fold better because I'm

01:37:29 In it making your life much less complicated much more supported and much happier

01:37:34 If you need me to deal with your ex I'll deal with your ex I

01:37:39 Mean that may be a bit the bridge too far, but you know, like I will make your life

01:37:43 I'll deal with all the mail. I'll I will just make your life

01:37:47 Simple and you can focus on

01:37:51 What you do best which is do the AI stuff have a great career and be a great dad

01:37:57 You know your ex-wife complicated your life I'm gonna simplify your life to the point where you say million bucks that's a great deal

01:38:06 Yeah

01:38:09 Now and that's that's what I I want to do but I appreciate you putting it

01:38:14 to words I think sometimes I think to myself, you know, all of those things are

01:38:21 Simple or obvious but it's not I think I really need to communicate more clearly like what I intend to

01:38:28 Bring

01:38:31 to a man's life, right and

01:38:33 the spark of your personality, but I mean, I'm not saying that that's not there you're delightful to chat with but

01:38:39 He's bringing that to right because if you say well you have to bring a million dollars. I'm just bringing myself

01:38:45 You're telling the guy he's minus a million dollars and he has to make him

01:38:49 he has to bring a million dollars just to make up for how terrible and boring and right lame he is and

01:38:53 A man feels humiliated by that and won't marry you

01:38:56 Right, of course

01:38:58 So you have to say listen, you're bringing you plus a million dollars. I'm bringing me plus plus plus right all of the ways

01:39:05 I'm gonna make your life fantastic

01:39:07 Because your million dollars makes my life fantastic and I'm gonna bring all of this stuff

01:39:13 That's gonna make you more than like you bring a million dollars to me. You're gonna end up with ten million dollars

01:39:18 Exactly because your life is going to be so focused on

01:39:22 You know

01:39:24 because I bet you this guy like his career got kind of crippled by the divorce and I mean I remember working with a guy

01:39:29 he was a

01:39:30 computer

01:39:32 Fantastic computer programmer and you know

01:39:34 he every time the phone rang you could see his face turn 19 different shades of red and green and

01:39:39 Right because it was his wife's lawyer or ex-wife's lawyer and he just couldn't concentrate and his whole career was crippled, right?

01:39:45 I mean, so you're like no man. I'm I'm turning you into a racehorse

01:39:48 And that's what I really want but I want to make sure that I I give that energy to the right

01:39:56 Person and I think I'm gonna start by

01:40:00 Being a bit more confrontational. No, no. No, don't think of it as confrontational because that's gonna mean you get aggressive

01:40:07 Right. No, that's not what I want to do. I mean passionate and it can be it can all be good-humored

01:40:13 Right, right. It can be oh, so listen, I get that you're an AI guy

01:40:19 But let's not pretend that you know better than me how my relationship goes with my mom, right?

01:40:24 Like with all due respect, you know, I appreciate I appreciate the concern. I really do

01:40:27 But you know, let's not get ahead of ourselves. You've known me precisely for a couple of weeks. I've known my mother for 35 years

01:40:34 Okay, so, you know, yes just you know, give me a little little credit here

01:40:39 Right, it could be very positive. It's not conference. Like how dare you? Well, you know, that's just very aggressive and negative, right?

01:40:44 Yeah, but people, you know

01:40:47 Giving them some reasonable boundaries that are positive and enjoyable. I

01:40:51 Mean, I think I've quote confronted you on some things here that I think might need a few tweaks

01:40:58 But I don't think it's been a horrible experience

01:41:00 No, it's a great experience to have an honest conversation with somebody, you know when everything's coming from a place of love

01:41:08 yeah, I mean I I want what's what's best for you and

01:41:11 You know

01:41:15 But you you have to be you know

01:41:17 You have to be ruthless because you know, I don't have to tell you clock is ticking but clock is ticking right?

01:41:21 Yeah, you you got to get married in the next year

01:41:25 Yeah

01:41:27 No, it's really it's really a high-pressure situation and I feel like all the skills I've acquired

01:41:32 over the past ten years of me trying to to heal and become a more rational and

01:41:37 reasonable person all of that is is

01:41:40 coming into effect now and I need to use all of these skills to

01:41:45 Try to make the right decision because I've never wanted to get married and get divorced

01:41:49 Like I really of course want to make sure that whoever I marry I'm gonna stick with it

01:41:54 All right

01:41:55 I'm gonna give you one piece of advice or interrupt I'm gonna give you one other piece of advice that may seem the most

01:42:00 Surprising advice I've ever given. Okay, stop being honest. I

01:42:04 Don't know what that means about your exes really? Yeah, absolutely

01:42:11 Really absolutely he

01:42:15 You don't think he needs to know no, please God

01:42:19 Please God stop being honest

01:42:22 What should I say then should I just yeah, I've good relationships I've had some in different relationships

01:42:30 you know, I've been single for quite a while and you know, I've made some mistakes I've learned but

01:42:35 Please God stop talking about well, there's this guy who was a drug addict and he committed suicide

01:42:40 and there's this guy who was it's fine with me because you know, we're not dating but

01:42:43 yeah, you gotta

01:42:46 It's just scaring them away. Well

01:42:49 You have had a lot of time to process all this information

01:42:55 Right dump this on a man's lap. This is all he knows

01:43:00 Yeah

01:43:02 Okay noted thank you for that because usually I just I just bear it all

01:43:08 Because I feel like all the relationships I've been in have had such an impact on who I am

01:43:14 As well, that's but that's terrible right because they're failed relationships, right?

01:43:19 Yeah, and I would I would argue that this level of honesty regarding past relationships is a form of self-sabotage

01:43:27 And filtering out healthy guys

01:43:29 hmm

01:43:32 Yeah, I mean I definitely usually

01:43:34 When I tell someone that I dated a guy who was a drug addict and committed suicide

01:43:38 They go from being very happy to looking kind of sad. Yeah, like honestly, please please shut up about that stuff

01:43:46 Please oh my god your grave take it to your grave

01:43:49 Okay, I will I know seriously hurt to me because this is this is a long time ago

01:43:57 It was it was I would never date anyone that I've dated in the past now, that's for sure

01:44:02 Okay, so why are you like I guess you get some drama like why would you know?

01:44:07 I'm just trying to be honest. Like I don't I just feel like I owe it to the person to tell them I

01:44:13 Don't know because I guess it's it's part of my own red flags

01:44:18 It's like I'm trying to just lay it all out, but you're you're raising red flags like crazy

01:44:26 I guess so. I don't know. I think it's your dad driving you to tell all of this stuff

01:44:30 So you stay single and available to him when he's old. I

01:44:33 Don't think it's there's no self-interest for you in this. I

01:44:37 Guess not I think I'll I think I'll try that out for sure

01:44:41 Yeah, just I mean not nobody nobody expects you to be a virgin

01:44:46 But yeah men don't want to think if you Romeo and Julietting some guy

01:44:51 Who was a drug addict? That's just that's right. It's

01:44:56 vile

01:44:58 Trashy trailer park stuff. I know so

01:45:01 Well now I'm okay to have a little mystery, okay, we'll definitely do that

01:45:11 Thank you, thank you for the advice stuff and thank you for

01:45:17 You know just every day putting out

01:45:21 Philosophy into the world

01:45:23 You're welcome. Is there something so anything else that I can help you with because I don't want to be another ten years and you'd be

01:45:29 like

01:45:29 Well, I'm like a space alien turned out he had one too many tentacles. I mean, I just want to

01:45:34 know but maybe maybe I will give you a call back and in six months and

01:45:40 Then let you know how it's going and please

01:45:43 Yeah, and I've you know, I have nothing against the AI guy just in case that matters to you at all a little bit

01:45:50 Yeah, he could be the guy

01:45:52 He could be a guy

01:45:54 And I don't even mind the fact that you've you know decided to hold your peace with regards to all of all of this stuff

01:46:01 but if you guys are talking about like

01:46:03 Moving you're talking about moving fast because you have to move fast and we have to move fast

01:46:08 You have to get information pretty quickly. So fine, you know, I would say fly out to meet him

01:46:13 I wouldn't wait just fly out to meet him

01:46:15 Yeah, and you know just be real Frank right and like, okay. So what am I getting into? What's the ex?

01:46:21 What's the story of the marriage?

01:46:23 You know if I'm gonna be a stepmom

01:46:24 I need to know what's going on with these kids like, you know, you gotta just have to be like boom boom boom, right?

01:46:29 Yeah, absolutely. I haven't been boom boom boom enough. I need to

01:46:34 Not be passive at all

01:46:37 Well, I think you know and I know it's tough because you know, there's that fun flirty chatty stuff, which is great

01:46:42 I'm not trying to diminish that but

01:46:44 You know, you're you're on a bit of a mission here, right?

01:46:47 Yeah, no, and and he does know that and I've been very clear about that and he's been very clear that he's if

01:46:54 We meet and we have a great connection the way we do now, then he wants to get married. Okay, so

01:47:01 Good and I would certainly figure out you know, what's the story with your dad?

01:47:07 you can have relationships in which you're silenced bullied and

01:47:13 Frightened and appeasing it but just know especially if it's a relationship like with a father

01:47:19 The ripple effects are huge

01:47:22 Yeah, and there's a big price to be paid and I don't think you should pay it

01:47:26 Because it's not you didn't choose this relationship with your father and you don't have any control over him

01:47:31 No, I don't we shouldn't let accidents of history rob us of the benefits of the future

01:47:37 Absolutely

01:47:40 It's gonna be it's gonna be hard to accept the reality

01:47:44 I mean, maybe that's part of why I still haven't let go of the relationship as I tell myself that you know

01:47:50 Things could be better than they are but I know that they're never gonna change. No, they're not

01:47:54 No, no way. No way

01:47:57 No, yeah. So, all right. Well, listen keep me posted. I certainly wish you the best

01:48:01 I really do appreciate the conversation and you know, I got my fingers crossed that this is a good guy

01:48:06 Maybe he is and I I hope that you'll let me know how it goes. I will thank you so much again stuff

01:48:12 You're really appreciate the advice. Okay, you too. Bye

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