As India embarks on its first voting phase, with 102 seats up for contention, Kashmir emerges as a key focus due to its first elections since the repeal of special status. We engaged in discussions with local politician Abhijeet Jasrotia and expert Ahmad Ayaz to understand their perspectives on how Indians are likely to vote in Kashmir.
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00:00 Mr. Ahmed Ayaz is with us right now.
00:02 Mr. Ayaz, you have just heard Abhijeet Jasroti.
00:05 What has changed in J&K?
00:07 What has happened?
00:08 Has it improved?
00:10 The Supreme Court has said that elections should be held before 30th September.
00:14 The Prime Minister has said that he will hold the elections.
00:16 So, what has changed in J&K?
00:20 You are the resident of J&K.
00:22 What difference do you see after the 370 was removed?
00:26 What has changed and what is the positive impact of the 370?
00:36 We will see that in the election results.
00:43 But as far as we see,
00:47 for BJP, in J&K in total, in Kashmir province in particular and in J&K also,
00:58 it will definitely show a negative impact.
01:03 Why? Because,
01:05 J&K had some special rights under Article 35A,
01:16 like land rights and job rights,
01:20 leaving aside the participation status.
01:23 It was connected to the common man.
01:26 And for this, the Jammu Dogrus fought in 1927 during the Maharaja's time.
01:33 Because the Jammu Dogrus and Kashmiri Pandits fought for these rights.
01:41 Because no one should come from outside to take our land and jobs.
01:47 So, with that protest, with that protest,
01:52 during Maharaja Hari Singh's time,
01:54 an order came in the sky that these rights should be given in J&K.
02:00 Now, how will BJP justify this?
02:05 That the fight that the people of J&K had fought during Maharaja's time,
02:10 if we take it away from the people of J&K,
02:13 then how will they justify that they have done injustice to the people of J&K?
02:19 So, with that protest, I feel,
02:22 with that protest, I feel,
02:23 that it will definitely have an impact and will definitely have a negative impact.
02:28 And with that, the way, I remember,
02:32 the way it was abrogated on 5th August 2020,
02:38 that is a painful story.
02:41 That happened in a very bad way,
02:44 that all the people were locked up,
02:46 no one was allowed to go out,
02:49 the telephone connection was cut,
02:52 the transport was shut down.
02:53 So, it was a terrible situation.
02:56 So, definitely, people will react to this,
03:00 which I feel,
03:01 and the people of J&K, especially the people of Kashmir,
03:04 will probably participate more in the votes,
03:07 because they will protest against the Maharaja's time.
03:12 Should I respond?
03:13 Should I respond?
03:14 I'm coming to you.
03:17 And what Mr. Ayaz has mentioned,
03:20 you know, coming from a Kashmiri sentiment,
03:23 it might appear that, yes,
03:26 the methodology, the way it was approached,
03:30 the abrogation,
03:31 given the country, the expanse, the sentiments,
03:34 it is difficult to make a simple, common, minimum program for that.
03:38 And trust me, I'm not making comments,
03:40 staying here in Delhi and then commenting on J&K,
03:43 but having said that,
03:45 taking a decision to change,
03:47 you know, what many would call as a historic wrong,
03:52 you know, that was committed,
03:54 if along with abrogation,
03:56 peace and security comes there,
03:58 if tourists come there,
03:59 if business is found there,
04:00 if jobs are generated there,
04:02 then I feel, especially in J&K,
04:04 Mr. Ayaz, I might be wrong,
04:06 but the change was necessary.
04:09 Just so, yes, you wanted to make a point here,
04:13 I'm sure the BJP would definitely want to walk home
04:17 with the success example of J&K.
04:20 Please go ahead and tell us, I mean,
04:22 why it is so for BJP as well.
04:25 Look, Mr. Ayaz, first of all, I will respond to him,
04:28 regarding Maharaja, if we talk about it,
04:31 then the biggest thing is that,
04:33 things should not be seen from one side,
04:35 the biggest thing is that,
04:36 the abrogation done by Maharaja,
04:38 was done by the whole of J&K,
04:39 including that POJK,
04:41 for which no leader of Kashmir has ever demanded,
04:43 that's the biggest thing.
04:44 The second thing is that,
04:46 when Maharaja abrogated,
04:47 after that, what was done with Maharaja?
04:49 What was done by Congress and National Conference?
04:53 National Conference and Congress leaders used to say,
04:55 that we abrogated Maharaja.
04:57 You tell me, in the whole of Kashmir,
05:00 when has anyone ever mentioned Maharaja?
05:02 Today, the article given by Maharaja,
05:04 and the state of Maharaja,
05:05 which he had proudly made the state of India,
05:08 perhaps, very few people know the history of Maharaja.
05:11 In the first roundtable conference of 1932,
05:13 if anyone in London,
05:15 if anyone talked about liberating India,
05:17 at the international level,
05:19 then it was Maharaja Hari Singh.
05:20 But no one has ever done it in the name of Maharaja Hari Singh.
05:22 Politics was done in his name.
05:24 And whatever Maharaja did,
05:26 it was done to unite India.
05:28 And if it is completely abrogated,
05:30 then I think,
05:31 if anyone has got the greatest peace,
05:33 then it must have been Maharaja's soul.
05:35 But I can very well understand the difference
05:37 between secular and pseudo-secular over here.
05:39 That's a problem with J&K,
05:40 and we have really suffered in the eyes of such sort of people.
05:43 And sorry to say,
05:44 these all comments are bizarre and obnoxious,
05:46 and I'm not going to buy these comments.
05:48 Because the people of J&K have suffered due to Article 370.
05:52 What about that Balmiki Samaj,
05:54 whom you brought to J&K,
05:55 and that national conference and congress brought those people 30 years back,
05:58 befooling those people just to come and clean their filth over here.
06:02 And what was promised to them by this NC and congress people,
06:06 that we will make you the permanent state subject,
06:08 permanent residents of J&K.
06:10 But nothing was done.
06:11 What job they can apply,
06:13 or their children who even qualified PhD,
06:15 they were applicable for only one job,
06:18 that was of cleaning the filth of these people only.
06:20 30 years these people have suffered in the hands of this national conference and congress over here.
06:24 And what about Gorkha Samaj?
06:26 One more thing, just last point.
06:28 Just last point.
06:30 Even West PEOJK, West Park refugees,
06:32 who came to our country six decades back,
06:35 they were allowed in assembly,
06:37 but they were not allowed in local polls,
06:40 because they were not even treated as the residents of their own country.
06:43 They were treated as aliens for 60 years,
06:45 just due to this policy of NC and congress.
06:49 That is why I always say that it was Cacistocracy which was clubbed with Plutocracy.
06:53 So this is what we have got for past 50 years.
06:56 You are also taking the name of national conference.
06:58 I would like to respond a little.
07:01 You have been BJP with national conference,
07:07 now you have been separated.
07:10 Do you think their policies are right?
07:14 See, we tried. We tried that everybody should start working for this country.
07:19 We gave chance to everybody.
07:21 But you know, we were not able to change them.
07:23 No problem, time will change them and people will change them.
07:26 Ok. Ok. I will respond.
07:28 I would like to respond quickly.
07:30 I think we will have to go back to history.
07:32 My friend also should go back and see that.
07:36 Maharaja Hari Singh did not very pleasantly and happily acceded to India.
07:42 It was not just because he wanted it and he was happy.
07:45 It was as a result of the invade by the Pakistani tribals.
07:51 When they reached Srinagar, they attacked.
07:55 Then he had no other option to seek help from India.
08:00 Otherwise, Maharaja Hari Singh was in a dilemma.
08:03 Because of the geographical conditions of Jammu and Kashmir,
08:06 it was a Muslim majority state.
08:09 And it was very difficult for him to decide whether to go with Pakistan or India.
08:15 So, as such, he preferred to be independent for the time being.
08:18 But in the meantime, when the attack happened,
08:21 there was no other option for him to seek help from India.
08:25 And when India gave him, he acceded to India.
08:29 He did it out of helplessness. He was not happy.
08:31 Secondly, the issue of Balmiki, which you brought up,
08:35 yes, that could be an issue.
08:37 But Balmiki could have been solved.
08:43 It never meant that to solve the Balmiki issue,
08:47 you would have to break Kashmir,
08:50 or their rights, land, property, or other matters.
09:01 You could have solved the Balmiki issue by removing them.
09:05 It could have been solved otherwise.
09:07 But what about the other rights as a cost of Balmiki, as you are saying?
09:11 This would have been a big injustice.
09:15 Please tell me about the other rights.
09:17 Sir, please tell me about the other rights.
09:20 Sir, please tell me about the other rights which you are not getting a preparation.
09:24 Tell me what about my job rights and land, property, and other things.
09:32 Sir, still domicile is there.
09:33 Sir, listen, sir. Still domicile rule is there.
09:42 You need to have a domicile to get job over here.
09:45 You need to have a domicile for your land security.
09:48 Please don't confuse people.
09:50 These people are already confused and suffered a lot for past six decades.
09:53 Please don't confuse them.
09:54 There are other states like Himachal, which are lagdava states,
09:58 and there are rights for many special things.
10:02 But politically, if we see,
10:04 sir, last comment from you,
10:05 the elections of J&K internally,
10:09 or the Lok Sabha elections,
10:11 but at the national level,
10:14 how do you see the elections in J&K?
10:18 Because the BJP wants to remove 370 from J&K and want to make it a national issue.
10:24 Or are you saying that we have removed it and done a better job?
10:29 Are you seeing it in the BJP's side,
10:32 or are you seeing it in the whole country, or is it a negative impact?
10:36 Two things, two things, rather three things can go in the BJP's direction.
10:43 One is that the opposition, the area block,
10:46 their weakness is that they cannot come together.
10:51 And if they were powerful, then maybe they would not have to do this.
10:57 Because they are weak, they are in different groups,
10:59 so they want to fight together.
11:01 This is their weakness.
11:02 And there are issues in that too,
11:04 they are not able to decide who will lead them in the future.
11:07 So they have their own internal issues.
11:10 Even though they are nationalists,
11:13 but everyone is interested in their party, their workers, their candidates.
11:19 So it will be an issue of national level,
11:23 that they should come together and work together.
11:25 Another thing is that the BJP has saved its own bank.
11:30 One thing is that the Babri Mosque,
11:33 even though it is not their property, it has come from the Supreme Court.
11:36 But they have projected it as if they have done it.
11:40 Second, they have abrogated Article 370,
11:44 they have projected it as if we have already brought J&K with India.
11:50 But the reality is that,
11:53 even before Article 370, they had already brought India with them.
12:00 But they are succeeding in projecting it everywhere.
12:04 That it is because of us that we have abrogated Article 370 and brought J&K.
12:10 These two or three things are helping them to save their own bank.
12:15 I believe that the seats may be reduced,
12:18 because the BJP has a lot of other things,
12:23 like the Gatbandhan and the India bloc.
12:26 Of course, they may come back,
12:31 after the subject results.
12:34 But it may not be with the majority, as we say, 400 plus.
12:39 This will definitely help them.
12:42 These two or three points will definitely help them.
12:45 We will have to wait and watch.
12:47 Obviously, the state elections, the assembly elections will also be conducted.
12:50 As my colleague Yogesh mentioned, the Supreme Court has mentioned that after September,
12:54 it can be conducted anytime.
12:56 Till 30th September.
12:58 It can be conducted.
13:00 Just one second, sir. I would like to ask you a question.
13:02 I am referring to an article in the Hindustan Times, 4th November, 2023.
13:08 The day when the J&K administration banned protests by government employees,
13:14 warned of termination of service.
13:17 We saw a particular type of protest, from the year 2022, as far as I remember.
13:22 Some government employees wanted to shift to J&K instead of staying in Kashmir.
13:26 And to work in Kashmir, they were told that terrorist attacks were taking place there.
13:32 We saw that the sporadic...
13:34 I won't say this regularly, but the sporadic incidents in J&K,
13:38 the workers who were coming from the factories were targeted.
13:42 They were being targeted.
13:44 Along with that, these government employees, who were told to stay in Kashmir,
13:49 this matter was slow-balled.
13:52 And in November, the J&K administration said that all those government employees
13:57 who resolve to protest, their jobs will be terminated.
14:01 The left party was involved in the expected lines.
14:04 How do we see this? What was the whole process? And what is the situation now?
14:09 Look, there was something in this, understand that...
14:13 When I was talking that the incidents of terrorism have gone down by 90-95%,
14:20 and even up to 98%, you can say.
14:22 But 2% of the vulnerability, or 2% of the chances or event of eventualities,
14:27 is possible anywhere in the world, like in Kashmir.
14:29 So it is the same like that.
14:31 So for that 2%, you cannot bring the people who are serving in Kashmir,
14:35 to come out of Kashmir, to come to Jammu, or Jammu people to move to Kashmir.
14:38 What message will we give to other people?
14:41 So everybody is as safe and as unsafe as anybody else is in Kashmir.
14:45 So you cannot have an excuse for that matter.
14:50 But obviously, life is very precious, and everybody's life is precious,
14:54 and we are trying to achieve the target of 100%.
14:56 Because the whole of you go to the US, you go to the UK, anywhere,
15:00 that 1% chance is everywhere of any terrorism incidents happening everywhere in the world.
15:05 Still we are much better than other parts of the world in Jammu and Kashmir.
15:08 So if people will try to link it with that, that will be quite difficult for me also to understand such sort of things.
15:14 We all are. I am working in Kashmir from past 20 years now.
15:17 Most of the time I am in Kashmir.
15:19 I am on the threat list of IS in Pakistan.
15:23 That means that I will stop going to Kashmir, I go to Kashmir.
15:25 So when we are working for our motherland, when we are working for our nation,
15:29 then we give it down to ISI or agents of ISI who are working on the payrolls of Pakistan and Kashmir.
15:35 Because we are working for our country and we are working for motherland.
15:38 So everybody is doing the same thing.
15:40 Yes. Okay. Mr. Jasruti, thank you very much for talking to us.
15:44 Mr. Ahmed Ayaz, thank you very much for connecting with us.
15:47 Thank you very much to both the guests.
15:49 Obviously, the issue of Jammu and Kashmir, especially the issue of 370,
15:53 the Indian People's Party is obviously taking it up for the benefit of the politics in the whole country.
16:00 It also has to say that we saw the political, last time we mentioned it in the manifesto, so we also completed it.
16:05 But that thing wants to be saved on the electoral bond, it wants to be saved on machine politics,
16:11 it wants to be saved on employment issues.
16:14 But the issues that are obviously on the electoral bond and are rising,
16:18 and how much impact it will have in the future, we will see that later.
16:23 Well, definitely the jury is still out. The first of the connections is underway.
16:28 And our thanks to Mr. Jasruti and Mr. Ahmed Ayaz for speaking to One India.
16:33 Thank you so much.
16:34 Thank you.
16:35 And an issue as critical as Jammu and Kashmir, trust me, irrespective of the party lines,
16:42 all the political parties, be it the journalist fraternity or a common man,
16:46 wants that truth and sanity should prevail.
16:49 And definitely Jammu and Kashmir, an integral part of India, should be there as the town of the country.