The Cleveland Cavaliers squeaked out a Game 7 win over the Orlando Magic and are now destined to face the Boston Celtics in the 2nd round of the 2024 NBA Playoffs. Tony Pesta of "Fear the Sword" joins us to discuss how Cavs fans feel about this matchup, and what the Celtics can expect from the Cavs.
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SportsTranscript
00:00:00Welcome into another episode of First to the Floor. Ben Vallis here. Thank you for joining
00:00:28us. Hope you're doing well. Coming up, the Cavs squeaked out a Game 7 win over the Magic.
00:00:32So Tony Pesta from Fear the Sword is joining us to preview Celtics-Cavs Round 2. Wayne
00:00:37Spooney and Jake Eisenberg are both here. How's it going, guys?
00:00:42Doing good.
00:00:43Good. Yeah, just living the good life, watching these teams scrap it out for the right to
00:00:50be brought to the Boston Celtics, I guess.
00:00:53Game 7s are so fun when you're not involved. You can just kind of kick back and enjoy it.
00:00:58It's 3 a.m. here in Australia. I think it's sometimes you can even sleep through them
00:01:01in certain cases, which I could not say for myself. I was saying offline before we got
00:01:06started, I was painfully scrolling my phone, looking for Cavs Intel, knowing that we had
00:01:11this pod coming up later today. So before we get to our guests, Spooney, you've got
00:01:15a series preview coming up on Celtics blog, I think coming out Tuesday morning. Is that
00:01:19right?
00:01:20That's right. Yeah. So you remember Grant Williams had that interview where he was like
00:01:23you. Doka was like, hey, play better. And Joe was like changing everything all the time.
00:01:27I think Joe has struck the perfect balance between two. And I mean, use that to analyze
00:01:32the Cavs series.
00:01:33Excellent. I can't wait to read it. All right. Let's bring in our guest who has just endured
00:01:38said Game 7 and has been chanting. We want Boston for the past three hours. Tony Pesta
00:01:43of Fear the Sword. Tony, how's it going, man? Welcome.
00:01:47All right. Hang on. Are you muted? I think you're on.
00:01:52My bad. I'm off to the wrong start here.
00:01:54He's so excited.
00:01:55The lights were brighter than expected. But no, thanks for having me, because honestly,
00:02:02I almost had a heart attack at one point earlier today. So you almost didn't have a guest at
00:02:06all. But I'm glad that I'm here. I want to say a quick shout out to Orlando. We're fighting
00:02:11like hell. Pablo Banquero, superstar in the making. That is a scary young team. Don't
00:02:16overlook them. With that being said, though, I'm very ready to look ahead to this series,
00:02:20which horrible turnaround time for the Cavs, by the way, just one day off and right back
00:02:25in it. So but thanks for having me on. I'm looking forward to this.
00:02:28Absolutely. Likewise, let's just quickly recap that Game 7. For those of us who I've read
00:02:34about the game, I've seen the highlights, but I wasn't able to to actually catch up
00:02:38and watch the full game yet. So the Cavs win 106-94. The Magic, they get up early and then
00:02:43the Cavs like scrape back and win this one. Can you just talk about your mindset, like
00:02:49the Cavs fans mindset as you're going through that game, staring down the barrel of a first
00:02:53round loss and suddenly you're clawing back and winning the game? How's that feel?
00:02:58It feels good, but it was it was a painful process. I'll tell you that much. When they
00:03:01went down 18, biggest Game 7 comeback in NBA history. Just starting out. When they went
00:03:08down by 18, I'll be honest, and I'm pretty optimistic as a Cavs fan. I was like, you
00:03:13know what? It was a good season. It's over. Like I was ready to phone it in. And then
00:03:17all of a sudden they have a little run towards the end of the second quarter. They start
00:03:21to get back in it. And all of a sudden my heart's back in it. I'm feeling like, OK,
00:03:25maybe they can come back. But I think Cavs fans probably across the board felt a lot
00:03:29of PTSD from last year. They probably thought, here they go again. This team is about to
00:03:34wilter under the pressure. They're going to they take a punch and they just go down right
00:03:39away. They managed to come back. Incredible third quarter. Incredible fourth quarter.
00:03:43The whole second half was everything you could have hoped to see from this Cavs team that
00:03:48the biggest question for them is their mental toughness. So to take a punch like that, even
00:03:53going back further, losing Game 6 after the game you got from Donovan Mitchell, 50 points
00:03:58and you still drop that one and then you start Game 7 by getting punched in the mouth to
00:04:03bounce back from that. I think Cavs fans feel pretty good right now.
00:04:08Man, I was watching, I watched it on delay. So I started at about 5 a.m. my time. So I
00:04:14wasn't on Twitter or anything, but I could only imagine the shitstorm that was enveloping
00:04:18Cavs Twitter when they went down by 18 points. Obviously, there's been a lot of scrutiny
00:04:25around the Donovan Mitchell stuff and the Mobley and Allen fit. Obviously, Allen's out
00:04:31at the moment, which we'll get into. So like all of those things were coming to a head
00:04:35like down 18. I was like, oh man, this is, I was thinking about Tony trying to come on
00:04:39this podcast. I'm like, man, this is an existential crisis type of vibe right now. But I also
00:04:45knew that like the Cavs offense was so bad that all the Cavs needed to do was get a little
00:04:48bit of momentum offensively and they could get back in this game because the Magic can
00:04:53easily, you know, they've done it throughout the series. They can have quarters where they
00:04:57barely crack 10 points and that's kind of what happened from the second quarter through
00:05:01the third quarter. And like Franz Wagner won for 15. That's rough. Suggs and Franz were
00:05:09combined three for 28, which anyone can get back in the game. Anyone can get back in a
00:05:15game where two of the best three players offensively are going to have a game like that. And they
00:05:19got the crowd back with them. Garland's alive just towards the end of the game there, which
00:05:27I was like, Oh, I didn't love to see that. I was like, well, I mean, yeah. So yeah. How's
00:05:32Garland's brain? I can't think at this point. So it's been, you know, probably the worst
00:05:39season Garland has had since his rookie year. This whole year has just been seasoned from
00:05:44hell, absolute nightmare. And to start this game again, just to back up even further,
00:05:48the end of game six, horrific. I don't know if you guys saw the eight second violation
00:05:53that happened. Oh yeah. But game hanging in the balance and Garland gets called for an eight
00:05:57second because he's just, his head's just out of it. I don't know the biggest problem for him. A
00:06:01lot of times it seems like he is just in his own head and overthinking things. And that carried
00:06:06over to the start of game seven. He looked horrible at the start. There was a lot of
00:06:10Kaz fans wondering as my lamp is just has a mind. Don't worry about that. It just decides to turn
00:06:17on and off whenever it wants. Uh, there is Garland. It started the game off horribly.
00:06:22I, there was a point there where we were wondering this JB, the coach, this, he's have to yank
00:06:27Garland. You just have to bench him and go down with the vert or even Sam Merrill, thankfully.
00:06:32And I don't envy that coach is in that position because it's like, what are you? You can't,
00:06:36you can't go down without your best guys out there. So we left him in there and he just had,
00:06:41it's not like the greatest fourth quarter of all time, but for Darius Garland, it must've felt like
00:06:45it. He had a huge triple. He gets a steal late in the game, goes one-on-one with Jalen Suggs,
00:06:50hits a floater, hits a couple of free throws. And it felt like if you had, if you wanted any
00:06:56chance of Garland turning it around, you needed a performance like that in a game seven where it
00:07:01matters the most. And you can't overlook the potential momentum that he could have built
00:07:05in that moment. Yeah. And no turnovers too, in the entire fourth quarter and three assists.
00:07:11So he was, he started to look better. He, so I've watched a good amount of this series.
00:07:15He's looked so hesitant to me. Do you think it's like the magic's length or is that something
00:07:19that's kind of been happening all season? Because full disclosure, he's on my fantasy
00:07:23team. So I've kept tabs on him and you're right. He has not been great this year.
00:07:29Yeah. I think hesitant. It really, it's the best way to describe him. Just the indecisiveness.
00:07:35I don't know if it's a lack of confidence. Darius Garland broke his jaw earlier in the
00:07:39season as Celtics fans are probably aware it happened against you guys. And after that,
00:07:45I think he loses 13 pounds because he's not able to eat solid food for a while.
00:07:50And when he returned from that jaw injury, we saw it a lot in this Orlando series.
00:07:54He just can't take contact like he used to, especially at the rim. So it's a lot of rushing.
00:07:58It's a lot of scoop layups, avoiding the contact, not even being able to get to the rim.
00:08:02And it's almost like every time he gets those openings, he's maybe overthinking it and not
00:08:08looking to shoot, passing when he needs to take the floater, just dribbling into traffic and not
00:08:13having the confidence to go up. So I don't really know if this is something that's going to be
00:08:17turned around overnight just because of this game seven victory, but seeing him put it together
00:08:22in the brightest moment there definitely felt good. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Go ahead.
00:08:30It's funny. Like he was pretty good in those two Boston games before he got injured. Like he has
00:08:3526 and seven on 11 for 23 shooting four for eight from three. And the next game he has 19
00:08:41had five turnovers in that game. So he had been struggling. Boston was kind of cruising in that
00:08:45game, but again, like three for seven from three. And I met, I think we were actually streaming at
00:08:49least one of the, I think the first Cavs game on playback and we're all, we've been huge fans of
00:08:55Mitchell and Garland. They've always like played like the Celtics and Cavs played a lot of like
00:09:00the two overtime games last year. Right. And so like we, we, we have a lot of praise for,
00:09:05for those two guys and that, I mean, look like that, the injury looks like a tipping point
00:09:10because he doesn't never really recovered from there. Yeah. Hopefully he can build some momentum
00:09:14coming into the next year. He's like, I worry for him. It's like, it almost feels like he has to
00:09:18have a good first quarter. Oh, as we, that could just be it. Cause I can't, can he carry that
00:09:23momentum in? It's like, I, and Sugg's obviously one of the best perimeter defenders in the league
00:09:28magic. One of the, like the third best defense, like 0.1 points behind the Celtics for the regular
00:09:34season. But his reward from getting through that is now for Derek White, true holiday,
00:09:40Jalen Brown, Jason Tatum, like even Peyton Pritchett, I think, you know, has been really
00:09:45good defensively and can kind of, that's a nice matchup for Pritchett as well. So it's,
00:09:49it's not exactly like he's going to get a rest or any let up kind of coming into this next series.
00:09:54Yeah. It's only going to get tougher from here. Yeah. Well, let's shift now to, to round two
00:09:59game one, 7.00 PM Eastern standard time on Tuesday night. I believe that's 9.00 AM Wednesday here in
00:10:06East coast of Australia. The Celtics won the regular season series 2-1, could have maybe
00:10:10been 3-0 if it wasn't for a Dean Wade masterclass, which we'll get into a little bit. Tony, just
00:10:16broadly speaking, how do you and Cavs fans feel about this series going in? You've barely had a
00:10:21moment to stop and think since wrapping up the series against the magic. Now you're facing Celtics
00:10:26in round two. What's the overall vibe from the Cavs side? Yeah. Super quick turnaround, like I
00:10:32said, so there's almost not even enough time for us to think about this. Uh, right now we're all
00:10:36feeling good. Obviously, uh, my objective mind is telling me it's still probably going to be Celtics
00:10:42and maybe not a landslide, but I would say five sounds reasonable. Uh, but you know how it is as
00:10:47a fan we're here now, anything can happen. It's the playoffs. We've seen crazier things. As you
00:10:52mentioned, for whatever reason, the Cavs and Celtics, just their games turn into chaos for
00:10:57whatever reason. And so I'm still going to pick the Celtics to win, but I think all of the Cavs
00:11:01fans would agree that if we can get this series to go six, maybe even seven games, just make it
00:11:06competitive. I think we'd be pretty happy with that. Uh, I don't, I don't see any Cavs fans
00:11:11picking them to win, but I think a lot of Cavs fans right now feel like we do have a fighter's
00:11:15chance just because we're here now and anything can happen. Yeah. It's a toss mentally, I think
00:11:23for, for the Cavs. I mean, like you come out of this war, like, I mean the magic, as you said at
00:11:28the top, like they have an elite defense and I mean, across the board, like Mitchell had some
00:11:33awesome moments here, like, but he ends up in the series with 28.7 points per game. He took,
00:11:39ended up taking 23 shots a game, 25% from three and the last couple, I mean, he's just team on his
00:11:46back. Like he has, he only took 30, 36 shots. I think it was in game six, 50 bomb and then a loss
00:11:54and, and tonight it wasn't quite the same insane, insane load, but he's still doing 17 free throws
00:12:00too. So yeah, so he's still insane usage. So that feels like their answer, if there is one,
00:12:09like can Mitchell try and elevate again, but he doesn't look quite like himself either, even
00:12:15though he is doing like insane stuff. No, that's, that's the crazy part is that he doesn't look
00:12:21anywhere near a hundred percent. He doesn't look right at all. And yet he still had a pretty
00:12:26unreal two games to end that series. He's, he's running around the floor, like he's wearing flip
00:12:31flops. He has just no vertical explosion at all. It's, it's honestly very strange that he's very
00:12:37reliant on getting to the rim, which you wouldn't expect for someone dealing with a knee injury.
00:12:41But right now what we're seeing is he's shooting a lot of runners, floaters, scoop shots. Like he
00:12:46can jump laterally, but he has no vertical elevation. So he can't like the three-point
00:12:51shot has abandoned him. Still. He's relying just a lot on his brute strength, getting to the rim.
00:12:56And you kind of mentioned this a little when talking about Garland, but the thing that probably
00:12:59worries me the most with this matchup is that against Orlando, the guys found their most
00:13:03success by matchup hunting, getting switches onto Wagner, Paulo Banqueiro, even Jonathan Isaac and
00:13:09Wendell Carter Jr. Wendell Carter Jr. Just did not have the speed to keep up with Garland or Mitchell.
00:13:14That's when they had their most success. You look at the Celtics, who are you matchup hunting? Are
00:13:19you, are you getting Mitchell onto Derek White? Do you want to draw holiday on him? Are you,
00:13:23and then Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, like those matchups just aren't as winnable for the Cavs.
00:13:28And so I do worry that it will be more difficult, especially for Mitchell, when he's clearly not
00:13:34a hundred percent to get himself going and Garland who has already struggled this season. He had some
00:13:39success against the Orlando wings. You aren't bad defenders by any means, but I think the Celtics
00:13:44wings are just a step ahead of that. So things are going to get a lot harder from here.
00:13:50Yeah, I think if you're Mitchell or Garland, you've got to try and get Al Horford switched
00:13:54onto you, which like hasn't necessarily been a sustainable tactic for, for Celtics opposition,
00:14:00but that was actually something you could more so go at Chris Tapps Porzingis using and now
00:14:04he's out for likely the entire series, which sort of brings us to the health discussion because
00:14:10to capture the overall mood of Celtics fans going into this series, there's a spectrum of like
00:14:15quietly slash cautiously optimistic, like Celtics in six ish. And then there's the loud, we can see
00:14:22a lot of them in the comments here. You know, Celtics in four or Celtics in five, that's sort
00:14:26of the spectrum of confidence. But a lot of that falls on the health status of a lot of these
00:14:30Cavaliers players. So let's start with, I think most important from my perspective is what's
00:14:35going on with Jarrett Allen. He's obviously a huge rim deterrent for anyone. And especially
00:14:39the Celtics chances of getting to the room with success and sustainability. What's going on with
00:14:43Jarrett Allen? Is he likely to come back at any point in the series? And if so, are you expecting
00:14:47much out of him? Yeah, so we had a quote today from Jason Lloyd of The Athletic where he basically
00:14:53just said that, Oh, right there. Jarrett Allen is an excruciating pain, which to me doesn't sound
00:14:59like a good sign. Obviously gets elbowed in the ribs in game one by Franz Wagner. It happens again
00:15:05in game four, kind of doing his best Kelly Olenek impression. Cleveland never forgets.
00:15:11It wasn't a tug, man. He was just moving. Okay. Okay. Either way, moving on from that,
00:15:19Jarrett Allen, he was questionable in these last three games, but I think it's important that
00:15:24Jackson Flickinger, my buddy slash co-host, he was at the games. Jarrett Allen didn't come out
00:15:29to warm up at any point. Didn't go through any of his workout routines. It kind of feels like
00:15:34he was questionable just to, you know, keep the magic on their toes. It didn't sound like he
00:15:39planned on playing at all. Uh, there's reports that he's having pain, even just trying to breathe.
00:15:44I'm not a doctor, but I've heard that there's an increased risk of him cracking his ribs if he
00:15:49plays. So I'll be honest. I'm not expecting Jarrett Allen to play. I would be pleasantly
00:15:53surprised if he did. And on that same note, I'm assuming we're going to talk about Dean Wade,
00:15:58the Celtics killer at some point. I'm also not really expecting him to play. Uh, there was a
00:16:03video I think last week that came out of him working out in the practice facility, and he is
00:16:08still moving very gingerly on that knee. He's had a knee strain for the past month and a half, two
00:16:13months. Uh, if he comes back, I would be surprised. So that's two huge blows to the Cavs that of
00:16:19course changes the way that this series will play out. Yeah. And real quick on Allen, um, the Cavs
00:16:24were plus two against the magic with him on the court and minus nine with him off. And when Allen's
00:16:30out there without Mobley, they're plus nine net rating. So he's just a massive piece for you guys.
00:16:35Had an amazing season all year too. So it sucks. He went down. Yeah. Eric Weiss in the chat here,
00:16:40Jared Allen, maybe the most underrated player in the league. Phenomenal player. Yeah. He's
00:16:44awesome, dude. I thought like, I mean, Mitchell's obviously Mitchell, but I thought you could have
00:16:47easily made the argument that Allen was just as important, if not more important early in the
00:16:52series to win those first two games. He, I know you, I don't have to tell you, Tony, like he is,
00:16:58uh, he was an all-star a couple of years ago, uh, incredible, um, defender and like,
00:17:04without that piece, obviously, I mean, not necessarily, it evens out necessarily without
00:17:09Paul Zingas, but I would say that like him being out for the Cavs is like kind of a,
00:17:15that's a real problem. That might be the death note really. Yeah. It's a, it's a huge blow,
00:17:19especially because, and I would, I would agree those first few games against Orlando. I think
00:17:23Jared Allen probably was the best player in the series. I mean, he just completely dominated both
00:17:28ends and the issue that we're, we will most likely see, obviously we'll see how it ends up playing
00:17:33out, but a lot of people want the Cavs to split the two bigs. But the problem right now is that
00:17:38you can rely on Jared Allen to be the lone big out there. We haven't been able to fully rely on
00:17:43Mobley to be a full-time center. So when you do the one big lineup thing, that's why the numbers
00:17:48look good with Jared Allen out there regardless. And with Mobley, it's a little different because
00:17:52Allen has the size, the physicality, and just really his whole life playing center. And it's
00:17:56just a comfortable fit out there. So not having him does change the way that the Cavs play. Jared
00:18:01Allen and Donovan Mitchell were the two most important players for the Cavs all year long.
00:18:05So not having Allen, it's going to hurt. I wanted to ask on that Mobley piece,
00:18:10that's a good point. Like when the Cavs went on that crazy hot run, 17 or two, whatever it was,
00:18:15Mobley was out for that whole stretch, right? And so like Allen has been incredible. So what,
00:18:19what are Mobley's limitations at, as the five? Like, because he had some incredible moments
00:18:25defensively against Paolo Bancaro. I mean, I don't think anyone has any like real defensive
00:18:30concerns about him. I get he's a little light in the ass, we call it. He's got a little bit
00:18:35of that to him. Similar, similar to Porzingis a little bit, but yeah. What are his limitations as
00:18:39a five? Yeah, I think the main thing, some of it is being a little too thin. Defensively though,
00:18:46it's not really the concern. I think he can hold up defensively as a five. It's just on offense.
00:18:52He struggles against stronger opponents because of that lack of size. He really,
00:18:58if he has to go against a more physical center, he fumbles the ball. He loses control of it. He
00:19:03seems a little too timid to just go straight up. He'll bring the ball down. He maybe makes poor
00:19:08decisions when he gets it. Whereas when he's playing the four and he's kind of more so like
00:19:13the tertiary option, it's faster decisions. It's catching it going right up. And so I think
00:19:18honestly the biggest thing too is just he can't set screens. I like, I'll just say it. He's a
00:19:23horrible screen setter still at this stage in his career. And if you're going to be the five,
00:19:26you got to be able to set screens. It's a lot different when Jared Allen's up there setting
00:19:31the screen and Mobley's in the dunker spot. It's just a whole different dynamic. And so
00:19:36I will say, I think he will have a, yeah, I'll be optimistic. I think he'll have a better series
00:19:41against the Celtics than he did against Orlando, just because the Magic were playing four guys
00:19:47over six foot 10, everyone out there was a brute. And I'd say that the Celtics are not capable of
00:19:53doing that, but I don't think they're as physical and as scrappy. So I think there will be more
00:19:57opportunities for Mobley to cater to that crafty side of his game rather than trying to out-muscle
00:20:02anybody, if that makes sense. Jake was just celebrating. If you listen to the audio show
00:20:08later, I think just celebrating the comparison between the Bam massively egregiously illegal
00:20:13screens compared to that of Evan Mobley. Bam is like one of the best screen setters in the NBA,
00:20:20partially because, not partially, largely because he's allowed to set illegal screens,
00:20:24similar to Trayvon Green, similar to Kevin Garnett. Like if you are able to get away with it,
00:20:29and then it just makes you an incredible screen setter. So like to go from that to Mobley,
00:20:36I think is a big deal. I think it's a good point on Mobley. I think it could be a better
00:20:40Mobley series from that matchup perspective, but I think from like a Mitchell side of things,
00:20:46the Magic have the size defensively, but he's so quick. Whereas like the Celtics,
00:20:50I actually, their perimeter guys match up a little more defensively. Yeah, I agree with that.
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00:22:10to get the one hundred dollar first deposit match and up to one hundred dollars, I should say,
00:22:15and supplement your hoops watching experience. It's a lot of fun. Spoonie, in a second,
00:22:20I want to get to like which player on either side on either team do we fear the most and go around
00:22:25the room on that. But you've added a lot of like advanced stats to our run sheets, Spoons. I want
00:22:30to make sure that I at least pause every now and then and be like, what about what about this stat?
00:22:34So is there anything that we've talked about so far that you want to get to? I just want to make
00:22:38sure that the people out there know the effort that has been put into this run sheet. Okay,
00:22:42full disclosure. Kind of forgot Tony was coming on, so I prepped like we wouldn't have a Cavs
00:22:46expert. So I wanted to like get a lot of stats in there. But one thing I do want to ask Tony about
00:22:52is I was really surprised to see that you're all's rebounding numbers are like your decent
00:22:58defensive rebounding team, but a terrible offensive rebounding team. And when I think
00:23:02of the Cavs, I think of like that double big lineup, you know, with Mobley, who, you know,
00:23:07he is lighter, lighter in the ass, if you will. But he's super athlete like he's really quick and
00:23:12he's smart. And Allen obviously is just a beast. So is it scheme why you all just do you prefer to
00:23:19defend and transition more and don't commit resource to the offensive glass? Is that why?
00:23:25I think part of it is the scheme, especially in New Orlando Magic series, we just saw
00:23:30maybe one guy crashes each shot and then everyone else is already back. Part of that is definitely
00:23:35trying to keep a lid on the opposing team, limit their transition attempts. But I also think just
00:23:40outside of the two bigs, this lineup is small. I mean, you play you're playing two undersized
00:23:45guards and Mitchell and Garland. Neither one of them are great rebounders, although Mitchell has
00:23:50definitely put in some extra effort on that side of the floor. Recently, Max truce is playing the
00:23:54wing at six foot five, a Coro is playing a lot of for George knee Yang, who has drawn a lot of
00:24:01hatred from Cavs fans, not a great rebounder, despite having a lot of size on his on for him.
00:24:07And really, there's just no one else like Dean Wade was honestly, probably our best rebounder
00:24:13on the bench. If you count Tristan Thompson, you can throw him in there, but he's not really
00:24:17a consistent player. Self-explanatory. Hey, Warford versus Thompson round a million.
00:24:26But yeah, I think it comes down to half of it being the scheme of them wanting to
00:24:30limit opportunities in transition. And really, the other thing is like, yeah,
00:24:33they have the two bigs, but that's it. They have two bigs on the whole roster, basically.
00:24:37And so maybe the addition of Marcus Morris will help them there a little bit too.
00:24:41And I do think a Coro Garland Mitchell, they've all placed some emphasis
00:24:46on trying to get on the glass, but there's still just a lack of size there.
00:24:51George is the Yang does not segue well into this next question.
00:24:55The minivan, as he's known, but which player Tony will start with you,
00:24:59which player do you fear the most? So coming from the Celtics, you're about to face the Boston
00:25:04Celtics in the second round of the playoffs. Tatum is a brown or is a someone else that stands out
00:25:08to you as you might be the most damaging, the most impactful player against the Cavs.
00:25:12Can I can I just say everybody, but no, I actually actually do have an answer. I won't. I won't cop
00:25:18out. Of course, Brown and Tatum are scary. They're capable of beating you. I think Derek White is
00:25:24going to be the terrorizer in this series. He's just that bill. You know, his ball did. Yeah,
00:25:29he's like Josh Hart on steroids for this against this Cavs team because he's going to get all the
00:25:34backbreaking rebounds. He's going to end up sneaking in there and getting a steal. He's
00:25:39going to hit those backbreaker threes, the momentum swinging plays that it's all going to be
00:25:43Derek White. That's what I'm going to see in my nightmares, I think, because while, you know,
00:25:46Tatum and Brown are going to have their games, Derek White's the one where you can't afford to
00:25:50have him go off if you're any other team. And as we've seen, he's more than capable of doing it.
00:25:56So I do think that's going to be the player who causes the most damage.
00:26:01Well, I'll ask you this, because like what the Heat did, Derek White always goes nuts in game
00:26:06four, 38 points, and then goes off again in game five. Like the Heat fans hate him. Finally,
00:26:12we have a player that they hate, like we have with Caleb Martin. But the Heat decided to put
00:26:18Bam on Tatum, and they just assigned a lot of resources to Jason Tatum, which led to him,
00:26:26he was actually the third leading scorer on the Celtics in that series.
00:26:28Just making the right play. And that is why Derek White kind of ended up being the guy. So I think
00:26:33that's a great choice, really endearing yourself and proving your ball-knowing abilities by choosing
00:26:38Derek White. Come back any time. Exactly. Do you see, like I mostly I saw the Cavs playing a lot
00:26:43of drop, they would switch some other like some of the perimeter guys, but did you see
00:26:48Bickerstaff trying to maybe put Mobley on Tatum or any funky stuff like that?
00:26:53You know, Bickerstaff isn't maybe known as the most creative coach here and there.
00:26:57Creative coach here and there. Yeah, you could say that. You know, I think,
00:27:02I think you have to try to experiment a little bit. I think Mobley is too great
00:27:07and versatile as a defender not to give him some reps on Tatum. But again, with Jared Allen out,
00:27:12you are going to need Mobley to be the rim protector. So it really limits their ability
00:27:16to do that. Again, this is where not having Dean Wade hurts them because he's really their only
00:27:20big wing defender. You have a Coro who did a fantastic job on Banqueiro in that series, but
00:27:27he's six foot five. I mean, these guys can just shoot over top of him, even if he works as hard
00:27:31as he does and he gets quality contests on them. There's just a lot of size there. And so Tatum,
00:27:39if he's able to make the right play, that's the thing that scares me the most, honestly,
00:27:43too, because the Cavs do spend a lot of time protecting the paint. Again, by design,
00:27:47that's basically their bread and butter. They're going to live with the three point variants of
00:27:50their opponent and with the Boston Celtics that could burn you in a hurry. Yeah, I think I
00:27:58go ahead, Sweeney or Ben. Go ahead, Ben. Well, we're kicking the rock around the perimeter right
00:28:02here. I know. It's a lot of fun. The ball movement is insanely efficient on the show. Jalen Brown,
00:28:08who did not shine all that brightly against the Miami Heat. We talked about it ad nauseum. The
00:28:13Heat know exactly what to do to disrupt everything that Jalen Brown is about. And I don't know that
00:28:18the Cavs necessarily possess that quality. And yes, they've got a lot of now very recent film
00:28:23to study on how to disrupt J.B. But I have to believe when I try and fall asleep at night that
00:28:29Jalen Brown is going to bounce back and be his more like all NBA, all star-ish self in this one.
00:28:35And matchup wise, personnel wise on the Cavs, there's a lot less that they can do to limit
00:28:41J.B.'s output. So I expect a lot of aggressive like first quarter J.B., first punch thrown,
00:28:47getting to his short turnaround midi post-ups, you know, getting Garland,
00:28:52Donovan Mitchell switched on him and going to work. So I think this is going to be a J.B.
00:28:57at the forefront series of on the Cavs. That's who I may be fearing the most,
00:29:00although Derek White still obviously comes to mind as well. What do you guys think?
00:29:05Yeah, I think so. Real quick, Tony, you mentioned that like you just like hope. Well, you hope
00:29:10Tatum doesn't make the right play. And that's basically what the Heat banked on in that entire
00:29:16series. And they they're under the Cavs are more talented team than this version of the Miami Heat,
00:29:20especially without Jimmy Butler. And when they put Bam on him, that really did undermine their
00:29:26entire defensive scheme because we basically just use Tatum as a decoy. And then there was nobody
00:29:30protecting the rim. So, yeah, I think you make a great point there. It's like you can't waste
00:29:36Mobley on Tatum without Jared Allen out there to protect the rim. So I think that's a really
00:29:41difficult balance. Yeah, I think you're right, Ben. I'm with you. I think this is a J.B. series.
00:29:47I like his matchups like Tatum, sometimes like these smaller guys like the Mitchell types who
00:29:52are like small and strong can kind of get into his handle and bother him a little bit. And Jayla's
00:29:58just so powerful and so direct these days, and especially without Allen there protecting the rim.
00:30:03I think he'll be able to get downhill on just about anybody the Cavs can throw out. Like,
00:30:06I'm not even sure who you have defend, Jayla Brown, Max Struis, Karis Lippert. I don't know.
00:30:11It gets thin real quick. There's so many options for them to pick on,
00:30:16whether it's Garland, Mitchell, Struis. It's going to be a tough series.
00:30:20Yeah. You mentioned like the three-point variance, and that's kind of how they defend.
00:30:27The Heat tried to do the opposite, which tried to suppress our three-point attempts.
00:30:30The Celtics still ended up getting up 39 per game in the Heat series, which is
00:30:34for a second best in the playoffs so far. And I had a look, the Cavs got up 29.93s
00:30:40in the first round, which is 14th out of 16. And part of that's obviously like there's no,
00:30:45like the Allen, Mobley, no huge volume guys. That's a problem. That's like, you can't be 10
00:30:50three-point attempts off the Celtics. But you mentioned Max Struis, can he bring some of the
00:30:57Tatum rules, some of the devil magic to the Cleveland Cavaliers? Because I mean, he's had
00:31:04his moments against the Celtics. Absolutely. I think maybe a little overstated. I wouldn't put
00:31:10him anywhere near the Caleb Martin category of someone who's like destroyed the Celtics, but
00:31:16they can't hurt to have someone that's been part of those series on the team to help. But
00:31:22that, like Donovan Mitchell's the obvious answer for me is like, who's the scariest
00:31:27from the Cavs side of things. But that's an element that that scares me a little bit,
00:31:32because he got going late in this game and kind of put the game away hitting some of those big
00:31:37shots. And like, he doesn't lack for confidence. I'm like, I'm a big Struis fan. I thought that
00:31:42was a huge pickup for the Cavaliers and a big loss for the Heat, because he's not just a shooter.
00:31:48He can kind of come downhill, play make a little bit, get to the rim a little bit. Underrated
00:31:52defender. Still not necessarily someone that I think can consistently slow down the Celtics
00:31:59perimeter guys, but he would probably be my like, if there's a guy that can kind of come out and
00:32:04maybe make this series frustrating, he'd probably be the top of my list. I have a goofy one that's
00:32:09not Mitchell. I saw this man put the ball on the floor, go right at Jonathan Isaac and finish,
00:32:17I believe lefty. Karis Levert, renowned Celtics killer. Celtics killer, yeah. Like if you're
00:32:23looking to like for the Cavs to make this a seven game series, two crazy outlier Karis Levert
00:32:29shooting games are the way to do it. And he's done it against the Celtics, even though he's
00:32:34been bad against us recently. I'm still freaking terrified of that dude. Yeah, I'm trying to,
00:32:39yeah. What are the two games? There was the 50 bomb against the, when he was with the Nets. Has
00:32:43he had a monster one with the Cavs that I'm forgetting at the top of my head? I feel like
00:32:47he had the 41 against Boston. That's right. Him and Mitchell went 41 and 41. I think that's right.
00:32:53Overtime game. So yeah, it's a, it's a little bit of Levert roulette. I don't know if this tweet
00:32:58made it over to Celtics Twitter, but someone on Cavs Twitter said that Karis Levert plays every
00:33:03basketball game. Like he got possessed by a different NBA player every morning. He doesn't
00:33:08get to pick who it is. And so we're going to be hoping that the spirit of Michael Jordan is with
00:33:12Karis Levert for this series, because if it's not, we could be in trouble.
00:33:15It has happened. That's a, that's a great one, Sweeney. Ben, who you got? He fucking,
00:33:20he fucking kept them alive today, dude. Like without. Oh yeah. He was huge. He was good.
00:33:24They don't win that good, that game seven without, I think he had 10 points in the second
00:33:28quarter when they were really dead in the water. So sometimes he gets the right spirit with them.
00:33:32I don't know. So in terms of who I'm worried will cook on the Cav side, Max Struess is the
00:33:39name that I had as well. And that just completely feeds back into that heat PTSD. There might even
00:33:43be some Cavs fans listening, being like, what the fuck are you talking about? It's like,
00:33:47there's a history there. So bear with me. And he, he knows the assignment, right? Like he has
00:33:52disrupted our best players as part of that heat defense in the past. So for someone who can
00:33:57elevate their game to that extent, Max Struess, I don't know, it feels weird to say it out loud,
00:34:02but that's just how I feel. So I'm sticking with that. They do have theoretically good
00:34:07wing defenders in Isaac Okoro as well in terms of slowing down the J's. So there's some potential
00:34:12for impact there as well. But as far as like who I'm most afraid of on the Cavs, unfortunately for
00:34:17Cavs fans are sort of being eliminated by injuries. Like Jarrett Allen would have been the top of that
00:34:22list. Dean Wade up there just because of recency bias, I think as well. I do think, you know,
00:34:29if Darius Garland and Donovan Mitchell, this is not a hot take at all. Like they're incredibly good
00:34:33offensive players. If they can get Horford switched onto them, if they can get, you know,
00:34:37I think it's going to be Cornette off the bench as well. If they can get the big corn dog switched
00:34:41onto them, they're obviously going to cook in those environments. So that's where the Cavs
00:34:46are going to generate a lot of offense that we need to be wary of. So it's obviously it's an
00:34:50easy answer, but the Cavs two best players are the ones that I've been most terrified of that
00:34:54and Max Struess and potentially Dean Wade if he does come back. And Mobley, I don't know,
00:34:59what if he hits Swings? Yeah, not to mention game one. That's right. Yeah. I bring a healthy
00:35:07level of fear into all of these series. I think folks in the chat, let me know if you agree.
00:35:11Anyone else on either side here, guys, any other names that we haven't brought up that stand out
00:35:14to you or anyone you think might have a real bad shitter of a series? Is this matchup just not for
00:35:19anyone particularly on either roster? Well, someone that I think that the Cavs fans would
00:35:25maybe hope could play in this series because he also was huge today, Sam Merrill. We kind of have
00:35:32a Spider-Man meme, Sam Hauser, Sam Merrill type situation going on here. I'll ask you this, Tony,
00:35:41how much pain has it caused you that George's Niang played like double the amount of minutes
00:35:47than Sam Merrill in this series? Listen, I was losing it at certain points, okay? Because the
00:35:53thing is, the reason why you can't, the reason why you can't play Sam Merrill is defensive concerns,
00:35:58but that's why you have George Niang out there, right? Like, it's like, what are we doing here,
00:36:02man? Like, at some point, you got to put him out there. As you said, big year for white guys named
00:36:07Sam. But this matchup, I think I said this on a recent, when I went live after game seven,
00:36:15I really wanted Sam to be in the rotation against Orlando, against Boston. It's a little more
00:36:20difficult. It's a little more difficult against you guys because again, you would just have way
00:36:24more options to target Sam and pick on him. When it came to the magic, the Cavs were really able
00:36:30to keep the lid on the rim. A lot of these games were rock fights. They were very low scoring.
00:36:35I don't know if you can keep the lid on Boston for four out of seven games. You're going to have
00:36:39to win a couple shootouts if you want any chance of being in this series. And so on one hand,
00:36:44Sam can help you win those shootouts, but on the other hand, he's also going to give up a lot.
00:36:48And I don't think Sam is as bad defensively as some people might think he is. He's a very smart
00:36:53positional defender, but there's just a lot of guys on the Celtics who can pick on him, put him
00:36:59in the post, really bully him. And you also just have a great switchable team. It's not going to
00:37:04be easy for him to get open. So tough matchup for him. You guys mentioned Struis a little bit.
00:37:09Listen, I'm hoping he brought some of that devil magic to Cleveland because the only chance they
00:37:13have is going scorched earth from downtown. I feel like that's really the best, if not the only
00:37:18chance the Cavs have of staying in this series is winning some shootouts and getting that three
00:37:22point variance on their side. And Max Struis is the king of three point variance as the Cavs have
00:37:27learned throughout the year. Yeah, real quick on the offense. So the Cavs have the
00:37:33clean and glass includes the play in teams for some reason. So you guys have the 18th best half
00:37:38court offense in the playoffs so far. And I think it sounds right. It's like, yeah, when two great
00:37:43defensive teams, it just slows down. It's a rock fight. It's kind of like contagious,
00:37:48like bad shooting is contagious sometimes weirdly. But how do you see like what I know?
00:37:53Like we have a great defense. We have a lot of switchable defenders. But what do you think is
00:37:56like the scab the the Cavs can pick at on that Celtics defense? I think maybe a lack of room
00:38:05protection. I think if Mitchell is able to get downhill, there's not as many options there,
00:38:10especially with KP out. Mitchell, again, surprisingly incredible in the at the rim in
00:38:16this series. Despite the knee injury, he's able to shred that point of attack defense, which is
00:38:20going to be a challenge. But Jalen Suggs is no joke either. And he managed to have success there
00:38:25too. So that would be what you would hope is that I know I just said that three point variance is
00:38:30the key. But if he can get downhill and finish at the rim, that opens up the three point variance
00:38:34because now you can drive and kick. Now you can cause the collapse and open up shots, which they
00:38:38really were not able to do against Orlando. So getting into the paint, making Boston feel them
00:38:44and then feel like they have to rotate over early because of that lack of a rim protector
00:38:48that would open up the rest of the floor for them in a way that they weren't able to do against
00:38:52Orlando. It's a big series, obviously, with no with no, no pausing. Yes. Cornets been pretty
00:38:59good, though, like I probably, you know, Jeff, Jared Allen's actually one of the most underrated
00:39:05players in the league. Cornet almost doesn't qualify for that kind of conversation. I feel
00:39:09like, you know, but like I would guess most, you know, fans of other teams have no idea really who
00:39:15Luke Cornet is. But like the Celtics went twenty one and four without Porzingis this year. And a
00:39:19huge part of that was, I mean, the roster is stacked, but Luke Cornet is like really solid
00:39:24and like rim protection is kind of his thing. But yeah, Ben talked about the switching with with
00:39:27that. Yeah. Can Al Horford not show his age? He hasn't really at this point throughout this season.
00:39:33But part of that has been because his minutes are down relative to last year because of Porzingis,
00:39:38who's not here. And this series is every other night. So like, yeah, it's great that this series
00:39:43went seven, but it also meant that the seven games potentially are condensed. There's no breaks in
00:39:49this in this series. So if they're able to steal one or two games, does that does Horford start to
00:39:54show his age a little bit? Horford's age versus Mitchell's knee, the underrated storyline.
00:40:01Who breaks first? What about Jake? Say you're holding the Celtics coaching clipboard.
00:40:07Joe Mazzola has had to take a toilet break. He's given you the clipboard. Jake, I need you to run
00:40:11the show. We just talked about what the Cavs tactical strategy might be against the Celtics.
00:40:16If you're running the show for the Cs, how are you going at these Cavs?
00:40:21It's I mean, to quote the great Joe Mazzola, there's no difference between the regular season
00:40:26and the playoffs. It's just a heightened level of emotion and anticipation. It's all about
00:40:31execution. And like, you know, hopefully if any Cavs fans listen to this, like we're not a podcast
00:40:37that is going to come out and shit on opposing teams. Like we have the appropriate level of
00:40:44respect. We've been through a lot. There's a few exceptions, I was going to say.
00:40:48Spoonie was a little more disrespectful in the heat preview. I'm personally scarred from the
00:40:53last couple of playoff runs. I have, you know, Donovan Mitchell, you know, just an incredible
00:40:58player. But I think it's don't, and Tatum said this all year long, don't get bored making the
00:41:03right play. And are they going to show help to Tatum? Stay with your base defense. I think
00:41:10drop in this series is an absolutely fine way to play defense, like funnel Donovan Mitchell downhill.
00:41:18You know, he hasn't been able to shoot the three well. Some of the best screen navigators in the
00:41:22NBA did a quite true holiday, get over those screens. Al Horford kind of playing, you know,
00:41:27if Donovan Mitchell is going to do what he's done and kind of kill you from the two point range,
00:41:33that's actually okay. I would continue to let Mitchell take 30 plus shots. Yeah. I didn't
00:41:39calculate the free throw number in my head today, but like he took 27 shots with how many free
00:41:44throws did he end up taking? 17. Yeah. So like, yeah, he got pretty close to the 35 field goal
00:41:50again today. And like, I just don't think that's a sustainable way to beat the Celtics. You have to
00:41:54get to a driving kick. You have to try and get your three point numbers up. So I'm like, play,
00:41:58drop, funnel Donovan Mitchell into the mid range. And if he kills you on twos, he doesn't have to
00:42:04have to kill you on twos. Can he just, can you just hold him to a similar efficiency that you had
00:42:08in that first round? And I think you're feeling pretty good going back the other way.
00:42:12Yeah. And I think that's what the magic did too. Just to say real quickly, I think the magic were
00:42:16completely comfortable letting Mitchell get downhill. And Hey, if you can beat us on one
00:42:20leg in the paint, go for it. He was able to do it. Well, he wasn't able to do it in game six,
00:42:25game seven. He got that timely help from the supporting cast.
00:42:29I'm really interested to see like the waltz, the dance of Darius Garland on the defensive end,
00:42:34because like, I almost think, okay, obviously you got to attack Garland when the Celtics are on
00:42:40offense, but sometimes you get so focused on attacking one guy. It almost like knocks you
00:42:45out of your actual offense. It could be detrimental. It's like what we see with Sam
00:42:49Hauser. Everybody's like, Oh, who's that white guy? Like I'm going to go at him in isolation.
00:42:54And then he's like, not that bad. And I mean, Garland's not nearly the size of Sam Hauser,
00:42:59but you know, sometimes you just get to a turnaround from 15 feet against Garland
00:43:04and you miss it. And that's not really a good shot and it's not good offense. So
00:43:07I'll be interested to see what bigger staff does. If we do have success against Garland
00:43:11too. Like there's just a lot of, that feels like a real pivot point of the series for me.
00:43:17Yeah. I feel like the Celtics struck a near perfect balance with targeting Tyler Hero in
00:43:21round one. So hopefully we see a lot of that same rhythm going forward with the approach on Garland
00:43:27there as well. Look, I think we're pretty close to wrapping up the preview of round two before
00:43:31we get to some around the league stuff. Any other takes you've got the sort of yet to fire off on
00:43:37on this round? Well, this, this is the, this is the home. No, it's not necessarily a home. This
00:43:43is like the very pro Boston kind of look for me. Like the Cavs are not the Celtics. So like for
00:43:49people that are looking for confidence going into this series as Celtics fans are like this,
00:43:55this magic team has a, like a disgusting offense. Like I think that they ended up being like,
00:44:01I don't think, I think they were, they were 20 something, 21st or something in the regular season
00:44:05coming into this series. Yeah. They were the lowest of any playoff or play in team. And so like
00:44:13this Celtics, this Celtics had the best offense in the league this, this year. So that's obviously a
00:44:18massive difference. And then you look at the experience thing, which is, you know, the magic,
00:44:22I had to look at the top five of each of these teams and they're like total playoff games played.
00:44:27So the magic, Paolo, France, Suggs, Wendell Carter, Gary Harris, 61 total playoff games
00:44:33after this series. The Cavs, Mitchell Garland, Mobley, Allen, Struess, 143 total playoff games
00:44:39played. Tatum, Jalen, Drew, Derek White, Al Horford, 514 games played. Like the, and I will
00:44:48say part of that, that's a little bit juiced because I've replaced Paul Zingas with Al Horford.
00:44:52Al Horford has 172 games versus Paul Zingas' 14. But even, even if you like switch those numbers,
00:44:59you're at like an over, like you're close to 400 games played. And I thought that the Cavs
00:45:04looked like a team that still lacked experience. And to quote the great Jared Allen, the lights
00:45:09were brighter than I expected. They looked a little bright at times for the Cavs, especially
00:45:14on the road, no home court advantage. This Celtics team has been through a lot and yeah. So the
00:45:20experience factor, I think will probably show itself a little bit in the series as well.
00:45:25Yeah. Well, Tristan Thompson hasn't lost to the Celtics yet. So
00:45:29we have anything to ride on. The East might go through Cleveland.
00:45:35I'm just kidding. Like I said at the start, I just, if they can just compete, I'll be happy.
00:45:41I think that's where the Cavs fans are at. Like this is the found money series. We're competitive.
00:45:45I not that you want a moral victory at this stage, but I'll be content with it.
00:45:50Yeah. Spoonie, let me know if you agree or disagree, but even just objectively,
00:45:56it's hard to not pick the Celtics in a low amount of games. And I really like the Cavs
00:46:01and we've had good fan base to fan base relations with the Cavs fans over the years. And Tony,
00:46:06it's always a pleasure when you come on the show. So I don't have a single negative thing
00:46:09to say about the Cavs. And like, despite that, I'm very much thinking Celtics in five. And
00:46:15I alluded to this earlier in the show, like I'm a panic struck Celtics fan. So I don't take these
00:46:21things lightly and yet still Celtics in five seems like the sort of natural result to me.
00:46:26What do you think spoons? Yeah. For some reason, once LeBron left, all of a sudden I liked the
00:46:30Cavs. I don't know if it was a coincidence or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking
00:46:35five or six, but if I'm the Cavs, like we're going to concede, pull up threes just because
00:46:40of the drop coverage. And I would just fire the fuck away and see what happens like, you know,
00:46:44like that's going to be there, make us get out of that drop and then you can get downhill. So,
00:46:48but I'm with you. It just man, especially without Alan. And I know we don't have KP,
00:46:54but I think people are still underrating how good Al Horford still is. So yeah, I think I'm going to
00:46:58lean Celtics in six though. I like this Cavs team. I think they, they have some ways they can attack
00:47:05us and they're still very, they did a really good job. I know the magic offense is not good,
00:47:09but I thought they did a really good job just keeping the magic on the perimeter
00:47:12and forcing them into what they do worst. I got, I got, I got my Celtics in five. That's
00:47:20do we get a Celtics or Cavs in X figure from you yet, Tony?
00:47:25I don't know if I made an official prediction. I will say I'm kind of, I'm kind of torn because
00:47:31I was going to say Celtics in five, but if he's going Celtics and Celtics in six, I'm the Cavs
00:47:35guy. I think I'm going to have to give them that extra game. I think, again, what it comes down to
00:47:39is the Cavs just got to hit threes. They shot 28% in round one full take. If they do that again,
00:47:45this is over in four. They need to have a couple of good games where they're, they're actually
00:47:49hitting shots. I'm interested to see if the Cavs are able to turn any of these games into a rock
00:47:54fight because they are such a good defensive team, but the Celtics are so high powered.
00:47:58I can't imagine they, they keep that lid on them for long. So maybe you get a game where it turns
00:48:03into like a weird, ugly rock fight, but yeah, with the injuries, even fully healthy, it's hard.
00:48:09It would have been hard for me to pick the Cavs really winning this series with the injuries.
00:48:13I would say Cavs in five or Celtics in five, maybe Celtics in six. If we get some of that
00:48:19three point variance on our side. Well, the good news for Cavs fans is that there is a
00:48:24recent precedent for teams just shooting absolute lights out from three over a seven game series and
00:48:29defeating the Celtics in the playoffs. It has happened before. I really sincerely hope it
00:48:33doesn't happen again, but the blueprint is there. So there's definitely plenty for Cavs fans to hold
00:48:38on to in that sense. We're going to come back in a minute and do a quick around the league,
00:48:42but first is another word from our sponsor this time, the GameTime app.
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00:49:40Jazz off in the chat. Bedroom Jake is back with the ASMR. I tried so hard to have a normal voice
00:49:47when I was recording that, and I was like five times. I'm like, apparently I can't speak normally.
00:49:51Just embrace who you are. The people love it. Future ASMR advertising. So the GameTime app,
00:49:58that's the first time we've run that ad on this show. Jake, you mentioned Old Man's on the way
00:50:03over to Boston. What's the GameTime experience been like there? Easy, fantastic. Yeah, he was
00:50:09stoked. I was like, look, there's a new app to get tickets. Apparently it's even better than some of
00:50:13the other apps out there. So yeah, he hopped on. He couldn't find the schedule until I was like,
00:50:19I got you, Dad. I got the schedule. So you know what days the games are on. But yeah, no, he's
00:50:25going to be there game one. Bring back some souvenirs. He'll be ready to rock and roll.
00:50:31Yeah, fantastic service. Definitely check it out, GameTime. Now, Nick's Paces, Wolves Nuggets,
00:50:36OKC, Mavs are the other series going on around the league. I feel like we got to start with Wolves
00:50:41Nuggets. That's probably the most exciting series going on, including the one that we've just spent
00:50:45an hour discussing. The Wolves obviously take game one. The Anthony Edwards narrative becomes
00:50:52even more inflated. I'm starting to think rightfully so. I don't like rolling our eyes here
00:50:56as like tatum stands, but it's hard to deny at this point what Anthony Edwards is doing, you know,
00:51:01under the bright lights at such a young age. Tony, what's your take on this series? Like obviously
00:51:07the Nuggets drop game one. Do you think now that it's going to come back and rattle off four or
00:51:10how do you see this going? Man, entering the playoffs, I felt like it was hard for me to see
00:51:16any team beating the Nuggets. But Anthony Edwards has been such a dog. He's been so incredible.
00:51:22Usually I subscribe to the belief that you need that experience to really get anywhere in the
00:51:28playoffs. So I kind of feel like I'll still pick Denver in this one. But the Timberwolves, they're
00:51:33just that's a good matchup for them. And Anthony Edwards has been so incredible that I wouldn't
00:51:37be surprised anymore if they managed to rattle off and win that series. Kind of feel like the
00:51:44winner of that series goes to the finals and probably meets Boston there. So you might be
00:51:49doing a preview with whoever comes out of that one. Yeah, man, I've been like Mr. Denver, I think,
00:51:55for all year and like they feel unbeatable, close to unbeatable for me. But that has kind of all
00:52:01been predicated on Jokic being like by far and away the best player in any series, even in a
00:52:07series against Giannis. I thought that like this is like one of the biggest gaps we've had between
00:52:10the best player in the league and the second best player in the league. He's looked human, not just
00:52:15yesterday, but in games five against the Lakers too. The Nuggets have not looked good, like really
00:52:23at all in this playoffs. Like they were losing for 75% of that Lakers series. You know, Celtics get
00:52:29talked about for playing with their food. The Nuggets go down 18-4 to start that game.
00:52:34The matchup's tough. The Anthony Edwards stuff. Yeah, I'm kind of with you, Ben. Like I've been
00:52:37obviously someone's like, okay, like Anthony Edwards is awesome. Can we see it? The Bill
00:52:42Simmons voice, can we see it? Can we see it? The Suns series was awesome, but I wasn't super
00:52:49impressed because I was like the Suns, they're just begging for a reason to get to Cancun.
00:52:54But this Nuggets team is legit. Defensively, they've been awesome. That being said, KCP is a
00:52:59little hobbled, but I mean, you can't say enough about what Edwards did in game one, 43 points.
00:53:04He had Murray in absolute hell for a chunk of that game, protecting the rim.
00:53:10It's funny, like I've been someone that's always been like, they're really similar
00:53:14archetypes to me, Tatum and Edwards. Like these kind of apex wing type players,
00:53:21really good defensively, like much better defensively than their typical, you know,
00:53:25scoring like the Devon Bookers of the world type guys, but also prone to like inefficient nights.
00:53:32The inefficient nights have been gone for Edwards in four out of five of his playoff games right now.
00:53:36And if he's going to play like this and Denver can't adjust and Jokic looks human, like I couldn't
00:53:41believe the shots that he was missing at the rim. Like he's never, he doesn't miss those shots
00:53:44against us. So I'm still not moving off Nuggets yet, but that's a bit, it's a must win. It's a
00:53:51must win game to win for sure. Absolutely. Ant is shooting 60% on pull up twos and 40% on pull
00:53:58up threes in the playoffs and 55 and a half percent on catch and shoot threes. Like he's
00:54:03going to cool off. And if he doesn't, he's probably the best player in the league, right? But he's
00:54:08going to cool off a little bit. And I do think it's going to go seven. I think it'll probably
00:54:12be Nuggets in seven, but that's a way to come out with a T wolves and show you're not afraid
00:54:16of the defending champs, man. Like they were super impressive. Ant was obviously crazy good.
00:54:21He's so goddamn athletic. It's, it's almost feels like unfair how quick he is with the ball in his
00:54:27hands, but I think he'll cool off some, but man, they they're in for a fight, dude. Like they got
00:54:32to pull it together. Yeah. I think Jake, you saying Casey piece hobbled, like, I don't know
00:54:36who the hell they put on him because Aaron Gordon can't handle him. He's not nearly quick enough.
00:54:41So I'm not sure what option they have, which is kind of terrifying if you're a Nuggets fan,
00:54:45but I just still think he'll, he'll figure it out. He'll turn it around. Um, I think they'll
00:54:50be fine, but it's going to be a good series. Yeah. I just think regardless of what happens
00:54:55and it's a tough one to predict with just the one game sample size, but just the stage is set
00:54:59for the best player in the world. One of the best players we've seen in this millennium, uh, he,
00:55:05the stage is set for him to solve the biggest problem that he's come up against thus far.
00:55:10I think at least in the post-season and just to be able to sit back and watch him work through
00:55:13that at the way that he mentally approaches the game is just a hoops luxury. So I don't know who
00:55:19I've got coming out in this series, but I know I'm excited to see how Yoka and then I get to adjust
00:55:22to, to what they saw from the wolves in game one, Nick's paces got to get to that. Cause whoever
00:55:28wins this highly competitive series between the Cavaliers and the Celtics is going to come up
00:55:32against one of those two teams. I had the Knicks over the sixes in round one. I just thought their
00:55:38health at that stage before tips had completely driven them all into the ground. Um, and just
00:55:43their tenacity was going to get up and under the sixes and it did in six games. Uh, and I think this
00:55:49series is much harder to pick and that's kind of just par for the course with getting into the
00:55:53deeper rounds of the playoffs, but you've got the paces pace for lack of a better term, they run
00:55:59and gun style basketball. We've got the Knicks doing what they do. Will that physicality and
00:56:03grit be enough to, to slow down the paces Spoonie? Uh, what do you think, who do you see coming out
00:56:08of this one? Yeah, I, I, man, Milwaukee was so injured. I'm not sure how much you can really
00:56:14take away from that series. And even at times the pacers kind of had trouble just like blowing them
00:56:19out or, or running by them. So, uh, except for in game six, they were, they've been handled
00:56:24business in game six for the most part, but I think the Knicks are just a better team.
00:56:28They've been better all season. Hallie stills, not like early season Halliburton. So I think
00:56:33I'd probably take Knicks in six. I think the pacers will shoot their way to a couple wins,
00:56:38but for the most part, I just think the Knicks are a more complete team on both ends.
00:56:42I'm in a tough spot. Cause I think that the Knicks are frauds. I picked,
00:56:47like they won the series by one point, obviously they want to in six, but like,
00:56:52I want to, I want to know what happens in that alternate universe where the Knicks
00:56:56lose game two and the sixes win game two. And it's a tied series one, one, as opposed to the
00:57:01end up kind of going up three, one. I want to know like, it was a top, it was a coin flip series
00:57:07and the sixes, I mean, they looked like garbage half the time as well. Embiid's on like one leg,
00:57:13Kyle Lowry, Batum, Topias Harris, Oubre, like pretty rough. I don't know. Does the, does the
00:57:19team's playing his guys 50 minutes a game show up at some point? Like so far it hasn't like he
00:57:25played six and a half guys in game six, the paces, like they run, it's a complete clash of
00:57:30styles. Knicks are one of the slowest teams in the league. Paces are by far the fastest
00:57:34team in the league. I find the pace is actually really good at getting teams to play their style
00:57:39similar to the Knicks. So it's a great stylistic clash, but I can't, the paces are 26th in
00:57:44defensive rebounding percentage. And so that alone, I think might just end the series because
00:57:50the sixes were 25th and they rebounded like 40 plus percent of all their misses. If that's going
00:57:55to happen, the Knicks are going to win the series. So I got Knicks in six as well.
00:57:59I can tell you all about that rebounding problem. I know all about that. Uh, you know, I,
00:58:05I probably go Knicks in five even. I think, and I think in the end it's good. Maybe I'm just a
00:58:11little skewed because of what New York did to the Cavs. And it's, it was weirdly cathartic seeing
00:58:15the Knicks do it to another team. So I'm like, okay, maybe, maybe it wasn't just us. Maybe the
00:58:20Knicks are actually pretty dang good at rebounding. Uh, so yeah, I don't know. I kind of, I just think
00:58:26the Knicks, they, they're such a tough, scrappy team and what they did to the Cavs is going to
00:58:31stick in my mind for a while. And they kind of did it again to Philly while that series was
00:58:36ridiculous. They really could have gone either way. I just think Indiana, because of how much they
00:58:41kind of struggled to close out Milwaukee, considering all the injuries that were going on,
00:58:45I'd probably lean Knicks pretty heavily, but you never know again, a team like Indiana that can
00:58:49score in a hurry. Uh, you never want to overlook them. Well, Celtics and Cavs fans, we can all
00:58:54unify and wanting that series to go as long and as grueling as possible. Um, yeah. Okay.
00:59:02Okay. See Mavs we'll wrap up on this and just quickly, cause we're running over time as usual.
00:59:06Um, I I've got the, okay. See thunder coming out of this one who in our pre regular season show,
00:59:12I pointed out, okay. See as fakers. I said, I did not believe I thought they were too young.
00:59:17Now that the first seed highly competitive Western conference, so not a good take,
00:59:21but that's all right. You've got it. You got to sometimes put your own receipts on the table and,
00:59:25and, um, expose yourself. Um, poor phrase, never expose yourself to the youngs in Oklahoma city.
00:59:35Yeah. This is a great thing about doing the show live. You can't edit out your own. Okay. See,
00:59:40I think offensively defensively, um, they're just too powerful on both sides of the ball. Um, and I
00:59:46think the Mavs playoff run as exciting scintillating as the Kyrie Luca duo has been thus far. I think
00:59:53they caught a dud. They're going up, going up against that iteration of the Clippers team.
00:59:56I just think, okay. So it is going to be too powerful for them on all fronts. What do you
00:59:59reckon Jake? I appreciate the Kelly Olenek comparison from Mo Lester Jr. In the chat here.
01:00:05It's high praise for your high praise Celtics legend. Um, I'm look, the thunder winning the
01:00:10West is kind of as my, my retirement kind of is hinged on that one as someone that bet them before
01:00:15the series. So I'm like, I've been loving it all before the season. I've been loving it all year
01:00:18long. I think the Mavs are frauds. Luca hasn't looked good. I know if it's injury related or not.
01:00:24Um, the thunder is so well balanced, man. Like they were top five in half court offense and
01:00:29defense. Like people think that they're not ready or whatever. Cause they're young. Like
01:00:35they're ready, man. Like these guys are so mature for their age. Uh, I don't see lively and Gafford
01:00:40being able to punish Chet. Um, you know what, like even valid juniors who like had a lot of
01:00:45success, like kind of bullying Chet at times, Chet dominated the matchup from an overall impact
01:00:50perspective because of the way that he spreads the floor, the way that he gets that offense moving
01:00:54and the way that he protects the rim. I think, uh, I think they're way too well balanced. I
01:00:58think that that Dallas defense is going to get fucking torn to shreds by the way that the thunder
01:01:03played offense. Yeah. I, uh, well said Jake, I did. Mavs kind of impressed me just kind of like
01:01:10the found the balance between Kyrie and Luca and that Clipper series as it went on. But yeah. Okay.
01:01:16So he's just, I think I'm much better, deeper, well-rounded team. So I'll take, okay. Scene
01:01:22six, six. I wanted to say five, but I'll go six cause I'm a coward.
01:01:29Yeah. I think I'm right there with you. I think I would say, okay. C and six. It's a,
01:01:33it's a weird situation because I think the thunder are clearly the better team,
01:01:37but anytime Luca is over there, how comfortable can you feel? He's just the type of guy who can
01:01:42go absolutely nuclear and beat you on his own. And then you have Kyrie who is
01:01:47playing the best basketball he's played since Cleveland. Honestly, it's, it's been nice to
01:01:51see because Kyrie was probably my favorite player of all time prior to all the insanity.
01:01:57So it's nice to see him kind of return to form a little bit and have a year where he's just,
01:02:01there's no drama. He's just hooping. So it's nice to see, but the thunder are just at the
01:02:05better team. So I'll go thunder and six. Yeah. I think I subscribed to that as well. Well,
01:02:10look a lot of, a lot of fun ball playoff series going on around the league at the moment. We'll
01:02:15be keeping tabs on all of them and back with more podcasts every day or two on this channel. Tony,
01:02:20thanks so much for joining us. I think we got your prediction, which was Celtics in
01:02:25six, I believe five or six. I kind of cheated. I said five and six. So we'll go Celtics in six.
01:02:32Look, I know it's kind of cliche to ask, but you know, I appreciate all of you guys and
01:02:36putting out your predictions. These things are tough to size up ahead of time, but that's going
01:02:40to do it for this one. Thank you so much for joining us, Tony. Where can the people find you?
01:02:45Yeah. First off, thanks for having me. Always love recording with you guys. You can find me
01:02:49at Tony Pesta on Twitter or YouTube. I'll be doing breakdowns of this whole series. Probably try to
01:02:54get a preview out tomorrow again, very quick turnaround. And I was not going to jinx myself
01:02:59by getting ahead of schedule and writing a preview because we saw how that game seven went. So really
01:03:05looking forward to this series. And yeah, thanks again for having me. Yeah, of course. Anytime.
01:03:09All right. We'll be back live on this channel again after game one. Spoonie, Jake, love your
01:03:14work guys. Until next time, go Celtics. I love the Celtics!